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Posted by: psizone.8437

psizone.8437

Condescension has no bearing on the merit of a comment, just on how well it might be perceived. I was actually trying to be nicer to you than some of the others but I guess I failed. Sorry.

Anyway, you said there were barriers blocking the most direct path. There are not—unless there’s some condition you didn’t stipulate.

You also said that on Alpine there were no hard blocks or cliffs between NWT and SET. There were.

If no condescension was intended then I apologize for reading it as such.

There was a slight condition I didn’t stipulate and that was my mistake, I was so focused on recalling the Alpine maps layout that I forgot that there was a back door to the southern towers and was including the barricades adjacent to them as the blockages which increases the travel time considerably if you can’t dps them down.

As for the Alpine blocks, assuming you own Garrison (as I assumed you owned Rampart in the DBL), then there are no blocks or cliffs between the two towers.

Brotherhood of Blub [blub]

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

I’m pretty sure the majority of WvW players that are still around have spent their fair share of time on the deserted bl. The “get to know the map” argument doesn’t really work anymore. People don’t like the map because it’s poorly designed for WvW. They aren’t going to waste their time on something that doesn’t play well and they don’t enjoy.

i wasnt commenting on players knowledge of the dbl, but the tendency to zerg that is clearly not as effective on the dbl.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Towers served as alternative ways to get the outer walls down if an enemy was entrenched in their keep, it forced your enemies to either come up with counter siege attacks or even bring their own force out to try and take back that tower. Especially if it threatened a waypoint.

im not disagreeing but i think trebs put the bigger server further in front. both sides have equal chance to use them to take stuff, but it makes defense a lot harder for the smaller server.
my 2 cents~

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Posted by: Samis.1750

Samis.1750

Both BLs have their flaws. Let’s also not forget that the old BLs were also often pretty vacant during non-peak hours. And as others have said, changing the BLs won’t do anything as long as the server player imbalances remains the same.

The old BLs also were effortlessly karma trained by the larger side – not a good thing in my opinion. And once they took garrison, it would take hours to the waypoint back – that is if it wasn’t karma trained again prior to the waypoint being completed. (Though this can be changed in the Alpine BLs) The new BLs are a tougher to crack, though they are also a pain to sentry.

I find fights in the new keeps more enjoyable, since there is more room to maneuver. Buffed Lords is a great idea as it slows down a karma train to some extent and allows some time for a response. Also, zergs can’t just steamroller a 5 man group without taking some time to get there and locate them, which is a good thing.

But the keeps and the map is too large for the current number of players (aside from reset night) and small scale skirmishes are much harder to find on the new BL.

Tarnished Coast

(edited by Samis.1750)

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

  • Shrink Towers/have less attackable walls. There’s so many angles of attack it just places unnecessary strain on scouting defenders, and in a lot of cases people just don’t bother at all.

All of your suggestions are good, some essential. However, I’m not sure removing some walls is enough. Defenders/scouts don’t really bother with the towers because of the travel distance, but also because the towers serve no strategic importance. You can’t treb the keeps from any of them. On Alpines they were often crucial elements in strategic play.

Then again, strategic play and the DBLs…..

That is a point I’m afraid I don’t have a solution for myself. Originally, the S towers had waypoints, but I don’t know if that’s desirable.

Towers could have ledges jutting out and mostly be only accessible from the tower. Something like Jerrifers or Ogrewatch.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

All of these solutions to try and save DBL are far too much work. How changing topography, traffic patterns, tower locations, tower structures, wall structures, etc etc. is not a massive overhaul I don’t know. Meanwhile, the asset’s needed to be added to Alpine already exist! They are live and in use on the EB map. Please stop over thinking this issue….

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

To the topic: I want them both! (as "battleground" maps, and not "borderland" maps, that stuff has to die already.)

---

Regarding the "strategic value" of towers in the different BL maps, I kinda like both in that regard. I’d like to have one of each, so I could play either "strategic option" if/when I wanted to. I think both have some good points worth saving.

---

I always wondered what was the point with that weird bridge to the open platform on Alpine SET, it could have been a nice platform to treb something, that could be semi destroyed by enemies. But iirc it didn’t reach Hills.

Just one of those things that I wish they could have added to towers etc, that could make for a middle ground between the two BL maps in regarding to sieging other structures.

---

* DeWolfe

They probably have to do some updating on the Alpine map as well, and I honestly doubt it is as easy as "copy paste some code over from EBG to Alpine". But yes, it probably would be easier than fixing DBL right now.

But I still don’t want 3x copies of Alpine OR any other map for that matter. The Borderland system must die.

Edit: SET, not SWT, sorry I was tired.

Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

(edited by joneirikb.7506)

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Posted by: Ben K.6238

Ben K.6238

You can bring back the map, but Alpine alone won’t bring back the players. WvW was dying long before HoT.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

WvW was already losing people because it was stale. Scraping the DBL and putting back in the ABL would just re-introduce something people were already tired of…

Exactly.

I guess not many people have been hanging in the forum long enough but before the HoT one of the most complained theme in WvW forum was how bad Alpine maps are, how we absolutely need new maps to bring more players into WvW.

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

dbl is over complex and boring for finding fights
abl was all about open roaming

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

WvW was already losing people because it was stale. Scraping the DBL and putting back in the ABL would just re-introduce something people were already tired of…

Exactly.

I guess not many people have been hanging in the forum long enough but before the HoT one of the most complained theme in WvW forum was how bad Alpine maps are, how we absolutely need new maps to bring more players into WvW.

People weren’t complaining that the maps were bad. They were complaining that they had been playing the same map for 3 years. The Alpine map worked fine, it was just stale.

If Anet had provided a new map that wasn’t a hot steaming pile of garbage, the majority of players would have been happy.

People are asking for them to return an unchanged alpine map because Anet is so out of touch with what the majority of WvW players want that there is no telling what kind of PvE crap they will try to force down our throats next.

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

One of the drawbacks of the Alpine maps was that most structures had no reason for you to defend, aside from PPT. The reason to defend the garrison was not just symbolic, but for the valuable waypoint. In EOTM and Desert BL, structures that give you buffs give you a reason to defend aside from just passive points.

Um no, towers in alpine and ebg can be used to take the bigger structures, swt could hit bay, set could hit hills door, nwt net both could hit garrison, in ebg every forward tower can hit smc(cept ogres red keep takes that place). Now the new dbl? yeah they certainly don’t serve any purpose other than looking different from each other.

Towers served as alternative ways to get the outer walls down if an enemy was entrenched in their keep, it forced your enemies to either come up with counter siege attacks or even bring their own force out to try and take back that tower. Especially if it threatened a waypoint.

They’ve messed with the tower and waypoint ideals when they made the new map, which it made it even worse.

P.S They won’t scrap the new bl obviously, too much work was put into it, but I’m sure they will continue to tweak it at some point. and eventually on rotation with the alpine map.

Which is exactly why dbl cant be fixed or compromised. Its breaks the design of WvW.

The core design of WvW is not a diffuse definition of “pvp” that “fight servers” have made up, its fighting over a continous chain of keeps and towers. When this lacks any meaning due to them being disconnected like on dbl, WvW lacks meaning.

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

WvW was already losing people because it was stale. Scraping the DBL and putting back in the ABL would just re-introduce something people were already tired of…

Exactly.

I guess not many people have been hanging in the forum long enough but before the HoT one of the most complained theme in WvW forum was how bad Alpine maps are, how we absolutely need new maps to bring more players into WvW.

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

It is abolutly clear that the majority of the players don’t like the new borders out of different reasons. They voted with their feet. The job from Anet is to figure out those reasons and going to fix them (terrain, chokepoints, barricades, events, upgrades, layout, etc…).

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Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

Stand The Wall no it is a map that is made to kill fighting. There is so many thing wrong with it but main is you cant run point A to point B, like from Keep a to Keep B in straight line (S/E), you have to run north, west, south, eats, north west, north, east, south, north, east then finally west to get up so you can run east again.

On old map running from Garry to Bay you jumped down sw and ran straight sw and you were at Bay.

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Posted by: Trepidation Lost.3469

Trepidation Lost.3469

we just want alpine back if dbl is in the way i’d rather it go

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Posted by: Caid.4932

Caid.4932

we just want alpine back if dbl is in the way i’d rather it go

I dont really get why it would be one or the other.
Is there any server in the game that would fill up 3 bl’s these days?
Just convert alpine and the desert bl to eb style maps and have them open up as eb fills.
Each side having a keep (and ideally a wp most of the time) would push everyone closer together.
Close the maps and disable the points if the population to support them isn’t there and just leave eb as the default map.

[Dius]

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

Just a quick search:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-maps-a-possibility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Never-thought-I-d-grow-bored-of-WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Boring-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-WvW-feel-fresh-or-stale-to-you/first#post4259739

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-started-the-WvW-decline

Forums will always be full of people asking for change, that’s kind of their point. But stop and ask yourself this, how much luck did you have going back and replaying a game you already played and left years ago. Sometimes you might have extended stays but more than likely you tire quickly since you already did that. Could be I am biased, WvW style game I played before this had 26 WvW style maps of varying terrain to fight across. After 5 years it hadn’t gotten stale yet. But each to their own in the long run. I also know that there are a lot of people that don’t partake on the forums.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

Just a quick search:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-maps-a-possibility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Never-thought-I-d-grow-bored-of-WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Boring-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-WvW-feel-fresh-or-stale-to-you/first#post4259739

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-started-the-WvW-decline

Forums will always be full of people asking for change, that’s kind of their point. But stop and ask yourself this, how much luck did you have going back and replaying a game you already played and left years ago. Sometimes you might have extended stays but more than likely you tire quickly since you already did that. Could be I am biased, WvW style game I played before this had 26 WvW style maps of varying terrain to fight across. After 5 years it hadn’t gotten stale yet. But each to their own in the long run. I also know that there are a lot of people that don’t partake on the forums.

Do you still not understand, we don’t hate that there is a new map, we hate that the dbl is a BAD MAP. Of course after 3 years people are going to want something new, and some changes. Of course things were stale in wvw with the same match ups, lack of tournaments and any meaningful updates. If the Dbl was a good map that catered to peoples playstyles, there would be no issue, and people would not be leaving the game or avoiding that map like the plague. Simple fact of the matter is, its a terrible map, it does not cater to playstyles of many of us, and we do not find it fun, end of story. If you cannot understand that, well thats your fault. But hey if you enjoy empty maps and dwindling player population by all means, keep fighting for the dbl, you can have it all to yourself.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall no it is a map that is made to kill fighting. There is so many thing wrong with it but main is you cant run point A to point B, like from Keep a to Keep B in straight line (S/E), you have to run north, west, south, eats, north west, north, east, south, north, east then finally west to get up so you can run east again.

On old map running from Garry to Bay you jumped down sw and ran straight sw and you were at Bay.

i know its tedious to get from point a to b, what im saying is that more could get done if people split up. more groups = more possible fights. i know that doesnt solve the design problem, i never said it did. in other words, if there were 8 groups of 10, each group could cover a smaller portion of the map. they could rotate when needed to avoid stale matchups/continuous losses. i also said in a previous post that gw2 is made for zerging, and anything that goes against this agenda wont work.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Do you still not understand, we don’t hate that there is a new map, we hate that the dbl is a BAD MAP. Of course after 3 years people are going to want something new, and some changes. Of course things were stale in wvw with the same match ups, lack of tournaments and any meaningful updates. If the Dbl was a good map that catered to peoples playstyles, there would be no issue, and people would not be leaving the game or avoiding that map like the plague.

The old Alpine maps were also bad maps, just we did not have anything to compare them against.

I personally do not know anyone who quit WvW because of the new maps, instead I know a lot of people who did quit WvW for various other reasons like guilds getting robbed from their upgrades and forced into endless PvE hell to get those back. Or horrible class/skill balance. Or non-existing rewards in WvW, again forcing everyone into horrible HoT PvE maps.

The problem of population balance between servers, problems with stupid scoring that rewards non-fighting servers, these existed long before HoT and new maps. And none of these has been solved. New maps were just last piece among all these things are, were and will be wrong with WvW, a lot of people were just waiting out the HoT for months hoping something would get fixed. But nothing was fixed. So they left.

It is irrelevant if you or me or someone else likes the map design. Maps are not main reason nobody wants to play WvW anymore. And so, demanding to restore old maps is also waste of time and money and will gain nothing to bring players back to WvW since they never left because of the maps.

A lot of basics for WvW has to be changed. Scoring. Population. Skills. Etc etc. It does not matter what kind of maps are used, if there is no players they all remain empty. And there wont be any players without fixing real problems.

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

It is irrelevant if you or me or someone else likes the map design. Maps are not main reason nobody wants to play WvW anymore. And so, demanding to restore old maps is also waste of time and money and will gain nothing to bring players back to WvW since they never left because of the maps.

A lot of basics for WvW has to be changed. Scoring. Population. Skills. Etc etc. It does not matter what kind of maps are used, if there is no players they all remain empty. And there wont be any players without fixing real problems.

This. Its like the ABL has become a silver bullet, its isn’t. There are other factors outside of the map that would probably go a lot further.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

Do you still not understand, we don’t hate that there is a new map, we hate that the dbl is a BAD MAP. Of course after 3 years people are going to want something new, and some changes. Of course things were stale in wvw with the same match ups, lack of tournaments and any meaningful updates. If the Dbl was a good map that catered to peoples playstyles, there would be no issue, and people would not be leaving the game or avoiding that map like the plague.

The old Alpine maps were also bad maps, just we did not have anything to compare them against.

I personally do not know anyone who quit WvW because of the new maps, instead I know a lot of people who did quit WvW for various other reasons like guilds getting robbed from their upgrades and forced into endless PvE hell to get those back. Or horrible class/skill balance. Or non-existing rewards in WvW, again forcing everyone into horrible HoT PvE maps.

The problem of population balance between servers, problems with stupid scoring that rewards non-fighting servers, these existed long before HoT and new maps. And none of these has been solved. New maps were just last piece among all these things are, were and will be wrong with WvW, a lot of people were just waiting out the HoT for months hoping something would get fixed. But nothing was fixed. So they left.

It is irrelevant if you or me or someone else likes the map design. Maps are not main reason nobody wants to play WvW anymore. And so, demanding to restore old maps is also waste of time and money and will gain nothing to bring players back to WvW since they never left because of the maps.

A lot of basics for WvW has to be changed. Scoring. Population. Skills. Etc etc. It does not matter what kind of maps are used, if there is no players they all remain empty. And there wont be any players without fixing real problems.

Nobody said the alpine bl was perfect, I had issues with it to, especially when anet wouldn’t get off their lazy kitten to fix exploits with the terrain. However if you honestly think that it is irrelevant if we like or dislike the dbl, then I sincerely hope anet never listens to you (no offense intended). How is a company ever going to know a product is successful? Feedback and data, a large number of players hate the new map, and its not hard to see that its true. Have you not seen all these posts from players from all servers complaining about empty maps, and here you are talking about population balancing, you really think its going to get easier to fix by keeping in this clearly unpopular map that drives people away?

People are asking for Alpine maps to be brought back for several reasons. One, they said initially that it would be brought back into a rotation. Two, we are not going to tell anet to work on a new map, that’s just impractical and would take to long, we already have it as an existing available map that is preferable for many to the dbl.

Maps are not main reason? Have you seen EB queues comparable to bl queues? Please don’t sit there and act like the map doesn’t factor into anything, that’s completely ridiculous. Nobody is saying that just the map needs to be changed and everything will be better, wvw has been so badly managed and neglected for so long that there is a mountain of issues that needs to be addressed. But bringing back the alpine map will be a much better alternative then this complete mess that is the desert bl.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

(edited by X T D.6458)

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Posted by: TheGrimm.5624

TheGrimm.5624

Maps are not main reason? Have you seen EB queues comparable to bl queues? Please don’t sit there and act like the map doesn’t factor into anything, that’s completely ridiculous.

EB always out queued ABL. I have played in all tiers at this point in time. EB always out queued the home borderlands unless the map zerg was moving from EB to a borderland. I understand the point you are trying to make but people keep using EB and that’s a false comparison since its always been true, ABL or DBL. EB draws more for various reasons but a big one is because it is equal footing. You know another map that is equal footing and draws a lot of people, EoTM. Kind of a pattern there, yes. Anyway, hope reset is tonight, and in either case hope that wherever you may find it you find good hunting in WvW. I think we all enjoy the game mode which is what works us all up about it.

GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU

De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Pretty much the title, after seeing the recent post by Mike. I mean the map is so gorgeous, and if people actually learned it – I think potentially you can have much more fun fights than in Alpine. But then again I think utilising environment like higher ground and all that makes for fun strategic play rather than just zergs bashing into each other . The map really does look like it was designed with gliding in mind , so I guess if that’s not happening than reducing the size would help. Please just address the issue with lowest tier servers, as well those are really a dessert population wise. Also I’m not saying ppl are vein, but rewards wise adding say, a WvW legendary backpack as a long term reward would do miracles for attracting more players .

We learned the map. It is not good.

They can remake it into a multi jumping puzzle and maze zone with a portal to SAB for pve.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

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Posted by: Bandini.6185

Bandini.6185

The old Alpine maps were also bad maps, just we did not have anything to compare them against.

We had EotM. Which is the alpine version of DBL. And which I don’t like either.

I personally do not know anyone who quit WvW because of the new maps

Well, it seems you just don’t know everybody. WvW was my main game mode, I completely quit with this new map and its gimmicks.

I’m on Jade Sea, a french server. It seems there are ennemies to fight on the other sides, so emply maps are not my problem. I’m not part of a guild, so I don’t have to grind for upgrades. And I couldn’t care less about rewards.

Maps are not main reason nobody wants to play WvW anymore. And so, demanding to restore old maps is also waste of time and money and will gain nothing to bring players back to WvW since they never left because of the maps.

Maps are THE reason why I don’t play WvW anymore. I won’t come back unless they are reverted.

You have a perfect right to like the new map, or to think other things should be solved first. But please, stop talking for “everybody”, pretending you know better than the people who left what they think.

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

Does anybody else queue up for EB and tab out, totally forgetting that you can go to the DBL?

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

im not disagreeing but i think trebs put the bigger server further in front. both sides have equal chance to use them to take stuff, but it makes defense a lot harder for the smaller server.
my 2 cents~

A bigger server doesn’t need to use trebs to take a keep, they mostly resort to taking a tower to do so if a just as big force is holding the keep and won’t come out, or the defenses are well placed to even get close to getting siege down, and yes the odd times they will take it that way just to mess with your morale.

Well placed siege and knowledgeable operators can counter almost anything the enemy sets down around the keep, with the exception of a couple spots which require you to leave the keep to counter, swt and nec. You can also take most of those towers back with keep trebs except for swt. Something the new maps are missing.

An omega golem rush is a different story.

P.S I hope no one is under the delusion that bringing back the old bl is going to bring people back in droves, some may return, but there are many other problems that drove a good number of them away, guildhalls, tactivators, banners, pirate ship, condi meta, forced to pve, etc.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

P.S I hope no one is under the delusion that bringing back the old bl is going to bring people back in droves, some may return, but there are many other problems that drove a good number of them away, guildhalls, tactivators, banners, pirate ship, condi meta, forced to pve, etc.

Yep, I agree with that… We need wvw as before hot, but we need a lot of change…. You speak about the most important. I will just add the new upgrade system for the keep (guild bonus, auto upgrade, less supply inside the keep, no more double doly, etc).

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

Just a quick search:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-maps-a-possibility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Never-thought-I-d-grow-bored-of-WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Boring-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-WvW-feel-fresh-or-stale-to-you/first#post4259739

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-started-the-WvW-decline

Forums will always be full of people asking for change, that’s kind of their point. But stop and ask yourself this, how much luck did you have going back and replaying a game you already played and left years ago. Sometimes you might have extended stays but more than likely you tire quickly since you already did that. Could be I am biased, WvW style game I played before this had 26 WvW style maps of varying terrain to fight across. After 5 years it hadn’t gotten stale yet. But each to their own in the long run. I also know that there are a lot of people that don’t partake on the forums.

Asking for a new map because it slowly gets old is totaly fine. But compare those threads you linked with those about the desert border.
I just need to look at my server. queues on EB (our focus before HoT was home border) and no queues on the borders. If a com wants to jump from EB to the borders he will lose half it’s squad. The players simply don’t like those maps.
Anet has to either modify them or remove them.

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Posted by: FrouFrou.4958

FrouFrou.4958

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

Just a quick search:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-maps-a-possibility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Never-thought-I-d-grow-bored-of-WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Boring-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-WvW-feel-fresh-or-stale-to-you/first#post4259739

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-started-the-WvW-decline

Forums will always be full of people asking for change, that’s kind of their point. But stop and ask yourself this, how much luck did you have going back and replaying a game you already played and left years ago. Sometimes you might have extended stays but more than likely you tire quickly since you already did that. Could be I am biased, WvW style game I played before this had 26 WvW style maps of varying terrain to fight across. After 5 years it hadn’t gotten stale yet. But each to their own in the long run. I also know that there are a lot of people that don’t partake on the forums.

Asking for a new map because it slowly gets old is totaly fine. But compare those threads you linked with those about the desert border.
I just need to look at my server. queues on EB (our focus before HoT was home border) and no queues on the borders. If a com wants to jump from EB to the borders he will lose half it’s squad. The players simply don’t like those maps.
Anet has to either modify them or remove them.

That’s not really the full truth now is it? Piken is notorious for having only 12 people on TS while rest of the 50 man blob just runs around without listening any orders, doing whatever they want. Even before HoT EB commanders didn’t move because they were afraid of getting stuck in the EB queue.

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Posted by: Aezyr.5304

Aezyr.5304

Could give us some links to threads about how bad alpine border was (pre HoT)?

The only big discussions on alpine was about orbs and bloodlust with it’s changes to the ruins/lake.

Just a quick search:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/New-WvW-maps-a-possibility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Never-thought-I-d-grow-bored-of-WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Boring-WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-WvW-feel-fresh-or-stale-to-you/first#post4259739

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-started-the-WvW-decline

Forums will always be full of people asking for change, that’s kind of their point. But stop and ask yourself this, how much luck did you have going back and replaying a game you already played and left years ago. Sometimes you might have extended stays but more than likely you tire quickly since you already did that. Could be I am biased, WvW style game I played before this had 26 WvW style maps of varying terrain to fight across. After 5 years it hadn’t gotten stale yet. But each to their own in the long run. I also know that there are a lot of people that don’t partake on the forums.

Asking for a new map because it slowly gets old is totaly fine. But compare those threads you linked with those about the desert border.
I just need to look at my server. queues on EB (our focus before HoT was home border) and no queues on the borders. If a com wants to jump from EB to the borders he will lose half it’s squad. The players simply don’t like those maps.
Anet has to either modify them or remove them.

That’s not really the full truth now is it? Piken is notorious for having only 12 people on TS while rest of the 50 man blob just runs around without listening any orders, doing whatever they want. Even before HoT EB commanders didn’t move because they were afraid of getting stuck in the EB queue.

Uhm…Roy, Oni, Mind, etc… were tagging up mainly on a border and not on EB. Times changed.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

P.S I hope no one is under the delusion that bringing back the old bl is going to bring people back in droves, some may return, but there are many other problems that drove a good number of them away, guildhalls, tactivators, banners, pirate ship, condi meta, forced to pve, etc.

Thats what I have been posting about… And it really looks like for many players old maps are miracle solution to every problem WvW has.

What Anet has already said is that bringing back old maps or fixing desert maps require both A LOT of work. That means if their whole WvW team works on these maps nothing else will be fixed for months. And that for me sounds really stupid and pointless.

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

The general idea behind bringing Alpine back is to slow the bleeding until they can roll out the updates. It’s insane to think it would be some kind of cure all. Like it or not the maps are a major part of what went wrong with HoT “expansion” and the longer Anet sits on the issue, the chances increase that they’ll have a solution that isn’t adequate for what’s left of the playerbase.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

The general idea behind bringing Alpine back is to slow the bleeding until they can roll out the updates. It’s insane to think it would be some kind of cure all. Like it or not the maps are a major part of what went wrong with HoT “expansion” and the longer Anet sits on the issue, the chances increase that they’ll have a solution that isn’t adequate for what’s left of the playerbase.

Correct.

They can work on all sorts of nice maps while wvw becomes a bit more stabilized.

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Posted by: NiloyBardhan.9170

NiloyBardhan.9170

Please scrap DBL.

Reason: Its a kittening maze (even after knowing the path) and way too much verticality. One main reason why this map will never be preferable to alpine is simply because of scenery. Alpine was a beautiful map with snowy areas and grass field. Current DBL would be a great map for PvE if they ever plan on implementing it so but as a WvW map, it failed miserably IMO. Structures (especially keeps and towers) are unusually big, the northern towers holding no significance other than 10 PPT, traversing is a pain in the kitten and so on.

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Posted by: mindcrime.2019

mindcrime.2019

Please Scrap DBL
No population even during peak hours of any server(stop before you respond, admit it you had a queue in ebg and you had no other choice).
If we wanted gimmicks and Pve we would have never entered WvW.
If this was sPvP or Pve it would have been fixed already.
Admit that WvW players are the redheaded kitten children of Anet and they wish we would just go away.

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Posted by: sparc.3649

sparc.3649

Please do NOT scrap DBL!

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Posted by: Kilver.7094

Kilver.7094

Please DO scrap DBL !

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Posted by: Puck.9612

Puck.9612

Please do scrap the deserted bl!

Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended

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Posted by: sparc.3649

sparc.3649

I think yall made some typo’s

PLEASE DO NOT SCRAP new BLs !!!

That’s how it’s supposed to look!

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Please DO scrap the DBL. People who like the DBL just want to PvE in a PvP zone. We need Alpine back for a better PvP experience.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

Scrap the Desert BL. Make a better desert map with what you’ve learned from the current fiasco.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

A bigger server doesn’t need to use trebs to take a keep, they mostly resort to taking a tower to do so if a just as big force is holding the keep and won’t come out, or the defenses are well placed to even get close to getting siege down, and yes the odd times they will take it that way just to mess with your morale.

they dont but everyone used trebs (post hot). treb warfare put more stress on smaller servers because it then becomes a race to repair the damage. before you say it no its not possible to have your zerg port in for every treb built when theyre busy being outnumbered on a different map. taking a tower is pretty impossible to do with a 5 man when youre facing 2 acs and 10 other randoms shooting at you. i remember way back i ran sups for quite long periods of time before i said to hell with it. it was then i thought to myself defense is kinda pointless if were forced to run back and forth without even seeing the enemy. no one in their right mind would consider that fun. sure you can build a counter treb, but not everyone can aim, and honestly is that really what wvw should be all about? being siege monkeys for ppt? i think the blobs of ppl say otherwise. the situation you describe is ideal but plenty of matchups were far from it.

now all of this ofc becomes a moot point if they can fix population, which i very much hope and believe they can.

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(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)

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Posted by: sparc.3649

sparc.3649

Please DO scrap the DBL. People who like the DBL just want to PvE in a PvP zone. We need Alpine back for a better PvP experience.

And that’s where “people” went wrong. It is neither PvE -OR- PvP, it is supposed to be WvW. Like a “war”, containing elements of BOTH, NOT * just * PvP.

If you want a better “PvP experience” then go to PvP, or Obsidian Sanctum… WvW is supposed to be PvE, PvP, and siege wars… ALL of the above! Hell, go EoTM, they seem to like “BAGZ” in there – I’m always seeing people wanting nothing more than “FIGHTZ” in there! You may have fun there too, huge BLOB fests of “LETZ FIGHTZ AND GET DEM BAGGZ”!

So no, do NOT scrap the new maps. They were exactly what many WvWers asked for, new maps that wouldn’t induce this crappy ZERG/BLOB mentality. You want your silly blob/zerg “FIGHTZZ” then go OS/EOTM/PVP/EB!

Frankly, even if we lost ALL of those people that misunderstood WvW to mean “zerg fights”, I’d be 100% fine with that – because that’s NOT what WvW is all about. Otherwise objectives and NPC mobs wouldn’t exist in the first place!

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Please DO scrap the DBL. People who like the DBL just want to PvE in a PvP zone. We need Alpine back for a better PvP experience.

And that’s where “people” went wrong. It is neither PvE -OR- PvP, it is supposed to be WvW. Like a “war”, containing elements of BOTH, NOT * just * PvP.

If you want a better “PvP experience” then go to PvP, or Obsidian Sanctum… WvW is supposed to be PvE, PvP, and siege wars… ALL of the above! Hell, go EoTM, they seem to like “BAGZ” in there – I’m always seeing people wanting nothing more than “FIGHTZ” in there! You may have fun there too, huge BLOB fests of “LETZ FIGHTZ AND GET DEM BAGGZ”!

So no, do NOT scrap the new maps. They were exactly what many WvWers asked for, new maps that wouldn’t induce this crappy ZERG/BLOB mentality. You want your silly blob/zerg “FIGHTZZ” then go OS/EOTM/PVP/EB!

Frankly, even if we lost ALL of those people that misunderstood WvW to mean “zerg fights”, I’d be 100% fine with that – because that’s NOT what WvW is all about. Otherwise objectives and NPC mobs wouldn’t exist in the first place!

Speaks the person whom has said they PVDoors all night long. Take the Desert map and turn it into a PvE zone then! WvW is about PvP over environments/territory. Not fighting the environment itself.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

Hum, can I get paid to be on that map ?
Because seriously, there is no way for me to go back in wvw actually…
Even eb who is full of all new stupid hot stuff..

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Posted by: NotKalkz.1286

NotKalkz.1286

DO SCRAP, PLEASE ITS AWFUL ……………..

Kalkz

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Posted by: sparc.3649

sparc.3649

Please DO scrap the DBL. People who like the DBL just want to PvE in a PvP zone. We need Alpine back for a better PvP experience.

And that’s where “people” went wrong. It is neither PvE -OR- PvP, it is supposed to be WvW. Like a “war”, containing elements of BOTH, NOT * just * PvP.

If you want a better “PvP experience” then go to PvP, or Obsidian Sanctum… WvW is supposed to be PvE, PvP, and siege wars… ALL of the above! Hell, go EoTM, they seem to like “BAGZ” in there – I’m always seeing people wanting nothing more than “FIGHTZ” in there! You may have fun there too, huge BLOB fests of “LETZ FIGHTZ AND GET DEM BAGGZ”!

So no, do NOT scrap the new maps. They were exactly what many WvWers asked for, new maps that wouldn’t induce this crappy ZERG/BLOB mentality. You want your silly blob/zerg “FIGHTZZ” then go OS/EOTM/PVP/EB!

Frankly, even if we lost ALL of those people that misunderstood WvW to mean “zerg fights”, I’d be 100% fine with that – because that’s NOT what WvW is all about. Otherwise objectives and NPC mobs wouldn’t exist in the first place!

Speaks the person whom has said they PVDoors all night long. Take the Desert map and turn it into a PvE zone then! WvW is about PvP over environments/territory. Not fighting the environment itself.

I know I’ve said this elsewhere, but I’ll even repeat it here and now:

I enjoy WvW for what it IS, no matter what. Obviously, otherwise I wouldn’t play it. For the longest time WvW is the ONLY reason I logged in (for ~3.5 years or so). I do enjoy the new BL’s regardless of whether the [censored] who “q.q” about them come there or not. I’m enjoying learning them, and quite frankly yes, I’m enjoying ganking peoples kitten while they don’t even defend, because that to me just clearly illustrates how [censored] people are. They’re so [censored] that they don’t even want to come to their own BL to defend their own objectives. So while they all q.q, I’m learning the maps, inside and out. I wont refute that I’d be having MORE fun if people would actually show up to defend their stuff and try to stop me/my group from taking it; since that IS what WvW is about; but again – it plainly appears most people are too [censored] to learn the new maps, they’d rather just q.q that “we want our old maps back” LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLZ

I’m a, “the glass is half full” kind of person, and I will make some [censored] lemonade if given lemons. Maybe everyone else should do the same! Why keep q.q’ing and being so negative? Either make the best of it one way or another, or just move on already; such negativity with all this q.q “new maps sux q.q q.q q.q q.q”

My point is, people need to get out there and LEARN them; and if you already know them, well then good – but still, get out there and PLAY on them then. The more people that play in them the more fun they’ll be, that is THE point after all is it not? And like I said, I wouldn’t refute it would be MORE fun, if MORE people were on them. So everyone needs to quit the Q.Q and just go PLAY! Make the best out of what we have!

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Posted by: msalakka.4653

msalakka.4653

My point is, people need to get out there and LEARN them; and if you already know them, well then good – but still, get out there and PLAY on them then. The more people that play in them the more fun they’ll be, that is THE point after all is it not? And like I said, I wouldn’t refute it would be MORE fun, if MORE people were on them. So everyone needs to quit the Q.Q and just go PLAY! Make the best out of what we have!

There are enough people. Lots of zergs and omniblobs razing the keeps on an hourly schedule. That’s not the problem. But you don’t get it, and since you’ve decided you don’t want to get it, there’s no point in trying to explain it to you.

Gutter Rat [cry] | Gandara | Roaming nuisance
~ There is no balance team. ~

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Posted by: Grimneo.4158

Grimneo.4158

Please scrape DBL. No population during peak NA times for the lower tiers. Plus once you get your BL the annoying PvE event in the middle takes away all your progress unless you guard it at all times. Most of the server just stays in EB.