Guild Wars 2

I enjoy my Ranger and I find it easy to play in WvW. The only problem is that I feel my Guardian is needed much more in team play. I never consider my pet to be of much use in all honesty. Neither do I worry about the pets of my opponents because I never stand still for them to hit. I feel all ANet has to do is make it where the pet stowing can be permanent and then give the Ranger normal damage stats instead of the penalty. Should only come to a basic “if then” line of code in which if pet is stowed then provide a buff (to negate the penalty).

ILLSPAWN.5340:

I enjoy my Ranger and I find it easy to play in WvW. The only problem is that I feel my Guardian is needed much more in team play. I never consider my pet to be of much use in all honesty. Neither do I worry about the pets of my opponents because I never stand still for them to hit. I feel all ANet has to do is make it where the pet stowing can be permanent and then give the Ranger normal damage stats instead of the penalty. Should only come to a basic “if then” line of code in which if pet is stowed then provide a buff (to negate the penalty).

This! Seriously, this! ^^^

Prysin.8542:

Honestly, reading through most of the replies, i get the feeling that most of you, have made a ranger, got it up to level 80, and didn’t keep playing. Most likely for various reasons, but honestly, i think the denominator here is that people just didn’t bother to explore the profession, and just decided on their own that since zerker/PVT =/= faceroll in WvW, it is not worth it.

And most of you, probably played a ranger, long before the most recent buffs (Shout grants swiftness + regen, spirits unbound moved down a tier, longbow damage increased)

You may be right about that for many people, considering ANet claimed at one point that the Ranger is the most played class. However exploring the class and getting to know its intricacies still doesn’t overcome its shortfalls. It is a poorly designed class at its core that focuses too much attention on synergizing with what is quite literally the worst AI controlled pet system of any MMO in the last 15+ years, and not enough attention on synergizing with the player controlled characters around them that they are playing with. It is, by design, a selfish profession – which does not mesh well with large group play.

Don’t get me wrong, I find ways to enjoy my ranger. I mained the class for over a year, I have 1500+ hours played, I have a bank that is bursting with nearly every gear set you can equip from the rounds of theorycrafting and experimentation. I even had a full set of ascended armor made for my ranger because I still use it with my guild in WvW raiding when we have enough frontline players to allow me to alt it up. But none of this changes the fact that it is simply not designed in a way that allows it to have a meaningful contribution in group+ WvW play.

Your statement about the shout build illustrates well my comment about being too heavily reliant on traits to make skills effective. ANets brilliant idea on how to make rangers more group friendly and buff useless skills was: Spend 30 points into NM to provide perma swiftness/regen, PLUS you then have to waste a skill slot on guard, which without those 30 points is a completely useless skill. And now you’ve spent 30 points and used a utility slot to provide 2 buffs to your group that they can easily get in abundance from other professions that have spent 0 points and equipped a weapon or skill that they would have equipped anyways in their normal role in the encounter.

The Ranger class should either be a beastmaster, or an archer, it shouldn’t try to be both. And all of those slots the beastmaster wastes on archery skill trees should be geared towards making their pet more group friendly and player interactive, while all the archers slots wasted on pet management should be pointed towards that same goal… It’s a class with an identity crisis that tries to do too many things, and ends up doing none of them effectively.

Rangers are good if you spec them and play them properly.

I have thought for a long time that rangers playing with an axe / warhorn + greatsword, healing sping, traps or wildness survival spec, and their excellent defensive traits can be a valuable zerg asset. No they don’t have CC, or huge damage, or gota have unique skills, yes other classes can do the same thing…been over this a hundred times….but the extra water fields, condi removal, and boons are very useful, and they are plenty survivable.

Unfortunately it often seems like rangers are the most hardcore about resisting advice though, probably because most of them in wvw are new players or hopelessly stubborn. There’s no definitive zerg or roaming build for rangers either like many other classes are sorta pigeon holed in to. Most players that are anything more than casual about wvw that had a ranger main have made another character for wvw. So the remainder is very polarized with some extremely good roamer types that have mastered their build, and the typical free kill bear bow that is absolutely convinced they can run full zerker in a zerg with no defensive skills, and that barrage is a useful skill.

Cufufalating.8479:

The number of rangers I have killed who just have a LB equipped and appear to have no idea where the swap weapon or utility buttons are in really quite sad.

Are you sure they weren’t uplevels? Figure that green arrow?

ILLSPAWN.5340:

I feel all ANet has to do is make it where the pet stowing can be permanent and then give the Ranger normal damage stats instead of the penalty.

Omg yes. Ranger pets are sooo clueless, they just run around and I really never bothered with them.

zen.6091:

I have thought for a long time that rangers playing with an axe / warhorn + greatsword, healing sping, traps or wildness survival spec, and their excellent defensive traits can be a valuable zerg asset. No they don’t have CC, or huge damage, or gota have unique skills, yes other classes can do the same thing…been over this a hundred times….but the extra water fields, condi removal, and boons are very useful, and they are plenty survivable.

Unfortunately it often seems like rangers are the most hardcore about resisting advice though, probably because most of them in wvw are new players or hopelessly stubborn. There’s no definitive zerg or roaming build for rangers either like many other classes are sorta pigeon holed in to. Most players that are anything more than casual about wvw that had a ranger main have made another character for wvw. So the remainder is very polarized with some extremely good roamer types that have mastered their build, and the typical free kill bear bow that is absolutely convinced they can run full zerker in a zerg with no defensive skills, and that barrage is a useful skill.

Actually, i’d say that the stubborn part applies more to warriors and rangers then any other profession.
A while back, when my server were doing terrible in WvW, i offered free PVT/Clerics gear sets + runes to those who ran zerker armor… not a single soul asked for it.
The fact that they were offered, pre-made ready to use stachels of armor in order to make them less squishy, and noone wants it, speaks for itself.

However, in case of speccing for group support i must agree that rangers and thieves are in a league of their own.

^ I want it. Gimme. My new necro will be forever in your debt. <3

I have a personal attachment to my ranger…but my necro lives longer, kills more, and supports the WvW zerg better. My Ele supports better, my Mesmer is more fun and survives better, my guardian…well morons can play one and be good at it…

Rangers are hated because they don’t fit the popular meta in wvw very well.

But that’s doesn’t mean they are bad, just that most guilds have no imagination and have not deviated from the pain train meta that RG brought months back. I know the guild I am in uses rangers, and we have been beating some of the best pain trains in T1, without using a single hammer warrior.

I hate rangers cause I can’t have 1 set of gear, utilities and trait lines that work for roaming, small group, zerg and PvE like a warrior has access too.

Both my rangers have 4+ sets of gear for various things to do….. My warrior has 1 set and wins all!

sephiroth.4217:

I hate rangers cause I can’t have 1 set of gear, utilities and trait lines that work for roaming, small group, zerg and PvE like a warrior has access too.

Both my rangers have 4+ sets of gear for various things to do….. My warrior has 1 set and wins all!

I’m pretty sure a warrior wouldn’t roam very effectively with a zerging tanky build.

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

I hate the Thief steal fear -.-

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

No, they are terrible.

And what you all talking about Rangers apply 250% more fear than necro?

Johje Holan.4607:

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

No, they are terrible.

And what you all talking about Rangers apply 250% more fear than necro?

You have to be stupid to say that ranger’s are perfect. But you have to be equally stupid to say they are terrible.

warriorjrd.8695:

Johje Holan.4607:

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

No, they are terrible.

And what you all talking about Rangers apply 250% more fear than necro?

You have to be stupid to say that ranger’s are perfect. But you have to be equally stupid to say they are terrible.

In large group combat they are terrible. Which is what we’re talking about here.

LB ranger with a bear is the reason.

/thread

Johje Holan.4607:

warriorjrd.8695:

Johje Holan.4607:

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

No, they are terrible.

And what you all talking about Rangers apply 250% more fear than necro?

You have to be stupid to say that ranger’s are perfect. But you have to be equally stupid to say they are terrible.

In large group combat they are terrible. Which is what we’re talking about here.

We’re talking about WvW and WvW isn’t only large blobs. Roaming and dueling is very prevalent in the lower tiers, you should come try it out

Prysin.8542:

Covis.6037:

Every other class does things better.

Actually, that is wrong. No profession comes close to as much Immobilize as rangers, even if the other profession specs for it. And only thief can apply as much poison, as often, as easily. Only the Warrior can match the passive regeneration. Only a guardian can actually bunker as well as a ranger.

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Even these dubious advantages, aren’t actually true. Warrior can apply more immobilize than a ranger, and Necro can apply far, far more fear.

They’re good solo in wvw, that’s about it.

for Zerging, most classes are better….Having access to basically 1 AOE if you’re Ranged on a fairly long cooldown or a short ranged Cleave attack if you’re greatsword doesn’t cut it..Mainly because that line also doesn’t have any AOE CC or anything really to go with it.

there is a reason people use Guardians/Warriors/Ele’s/Necro’s for zerging.

Sirendor.1394:

Cufufalating.8479:

The number of rangers I have killed who just have a LB equipped and appear to have no idea where the swap weapon or utility buttons are in really quite sad.

Are you sure they weren’t uplevels? Figure that green arrow?

I kid you not, I have recorded footage of me fighting a Bronze Champion ranger who did exactly what I just described. To this day I do not know how he got to such a high rank being such a bad player.

warriorjrd.8695:

sephiroth.4217:

I hate rangers cause I can’t have 1 set of gear, utilities and trait lines that work for roaming, small group, zerg and PvE like a warrior has access too.

Both my rangers have 4+ sets of gear for various things to do….. My warrior has 1 set and wins all!

I’m pretty sure a warrior wouldn’t roam very effectively with a zerging tanky build.

Mine gets away with it, knights gear, zerk trinkets, stances… 0/0/30/10/30, all I change is warbanner to signant of rage when I go from zerging to roaming.

But point still stands whether you roam on different gear or not.

Cufufalating.8479:

Sirendor.1394:

Cufufalating.8479:

The number of rangers I have killed who just have a LB equipped and appear to have no idea where the swap weapon or utility buttons are in really quite sad.

Are you sure they weren’t uplevels? Figure that green arrow?

I kid you not, I have recorded footage of me fighting a Bronze Champion ranger who did exactly what I just described. To this day I do not know how he got to such a high rank being such a bad player.

Karma trains are the answer, my friend. Funny though, a Bronze Champion bearbowing. o-O

I’ve had my Ranger for a long time. She was my second 80 and mostly leveled in WvW (along with crafting and personal story). I rarely use my Ranger in WvW anymore, if at all. I have an 80 Guard, Warrior, Necro and Thief for WvW. I totally agree that in a zerg Rangers do not bring enough to the table. I am hoping to play more small group in the future, but it won’t be with my Ranger, it will be with my Thief who I feel is better.

To even play in WvW as a Ranger I had to sacrifice a lot of damage to be survivable enough and then there wasn’t much a point. In a large group I could be somewhat useful providing ranged pressure at a choke, but as many have said there are classes that do that better. Perhaps if they lowered the barrage cd and make it not root us to finish, it would be more useful. And of course, as many have said, the pet is absolutely useless in large group/zerg. I have never ever had an issue with Ranger’s pets while playing one of my other 80s. I don’t even notice them, or quickly kill them…but usually I barely see them.

I seriously wish Anet would do something more for the Rangers to make them more useful in WvW. So sadly, for me, I stick to farming (solo) PVE and PVE Champ trains with my Ranger now.

Oh also, I totally agree with the idea of being able to stow the pet and still get the damage….that would be great. Anet, please look into it.

Johje Holan.4607:

warriorjrd.8695:

Johje Holan.4607:

sierras.6297:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Yeah, that is kind of stupid to be honest. Necromancer are designed around fear and other classes do it better -_-
Anyways, I don’t think rangers are bad, they aren’t as good as a lot of classes, but they are by no means terrible.

No, they are terrible.

And what you all talking about Rangers apply 250% more fear than necro?

You have to be stupid to say that ranger’s are perfect. But you have to be equally stupid to say they are terrible.

In large group combat they are terrible. Which is what we’re talking about here.

Sorry but we are talking about general WvW, not zerging.

And to whomever said “i hate that i cant have 1 set of armor to do everything”. Yes you can, and that build has been around since the beta. However, many people, myself included, took its effectiveness in zergs for granted, and boy was i wrong.

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

Covis.6037:

Every other class does things better.

Actually, that is wrong. No profession comes close to as much Immobilize as rangers, even if the other profession specs for it. And only thief can apply as much poison, as often, as easily. Only the Warrior can match the passive regeneration. Only a guardian can actually bunker as well as a ranger.

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Even these dubious advantages, aren’t actually true. Warrior can apply more immobilize than a ranger, and Necro can apply far, far more fear.

Ok, just to shut you guys up;
Here is a warrior, with what can be considered to be the most possible stacking of immobilize, using traits. I can find no other method of gaining more immobilize from that warrior. Both in terms of spammable attacks (short CD and whatnot) and the ability to apply it.

Total duration, IF ALL STRIKES HIT IN RAPID SUCCESSION: 21.75seconds

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAU8ZAt+Ai5BAQEGxRBAEgpCiBA-j0ABYNCy00CylhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, the way immobilize stacks, and the enemy using foods or whatnot MAY change the outcome. However, bottom line is, this is the MAXIMUM duration you can get with a warrior that i can find. At best, you can possibly wring out 3-4 more seconds by fine tuning your gear.

Now for ranger. Using same foods, traitlines and whatnot.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJBMhMEX3V5YhaJAWPAMvBbF4kp4QHfFitkR1A-j0ABYNBkmOglhFRjVKAIGWB-w

This will probably be the worst ranger build ever, however just to show what you are up against. The “Trappers Expertice” trait grants 1.25 second immobilize when using spike trap. I could possibly double that by taking Potent Traps, but then my spammability of the elite would go down a lot. Entangle applies 14×2.25sec immob pulses.
Entangle alone (if wines are not broken): 31.5seconds
TOTAL DURATION APPLIED: 63.75seconds

Your warrior can do what better then my ranger? I can apply 19.5seconds immobilize every ~20 or so seconds. More then enough to destroy your warrior. All but TWO of my attacks are AOE.

Now for necromancer;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAmCdbMcJAoHAAwtUPAAg0B-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Necromancer could potentially use “Rune of the Necromancer” to gain +20% fear duration. However necromancers are so slow, that one are more likely to use the Traveler Runes (due to overall usefulness) then to take the necromancer runes.

Total fear duration: 8.75 seconds

Now for ranger;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQFAFGAWPAEg/YPAAgFfFitkVEE-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, to explain; Moment of Clarity currently boosts ALL Hard CC applied by rangers. This means that when using Fear attacks on a ranger, you apply 2x the duration. Now stating this on the forums will probably get this bug/oversight nerfed, but i am so sick and tired of you people trying to drag the ranger down that i’ll just make my point perfectly clear.
The Boar pet allows rangers to aquire a RNG drop named “Skull”. Now GW2skills does not show this RNG drop item, but here is a link to the Wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear
Since WIki does not calculate for my gear, i had to go ingame to find the basic duration (before using trait). With the setup shown in the GW2skills builder (106% condition duration) my Skull Fear lasts for 6.25seconds base, and Moment of Clarity DOUBLES that (for some unknown weird reason that probably will get “fixed”, aka nerfed into the ground, soon)

That means that rangers can apply a total of 18.25s of fear. which infact IS more then 200% of what necromancers can do.
Oh and my wolf, which applies Fear in 600 AOE… its CD is 36 seconds, same as necro CD’s, but much longer fear duration.

So ok, 250 was overkill, it was more like 220%
Edit: If the Necro and Ranger are using Norn characters, they can use “become the Wolf” to apply even more fear. HOWEVER, since the ranger has the trait, that means the ranger get to apply EVEN MORE FEAR.

Anyway. If you want to cry, you can do it now. Rangers are better then others, even when others spec for it. So, yeah, enough said.

only ranger i’ve ever had a problem with is condi/trap rangers and that is on a zerker build with no condi clear. other than that, most (all) rangers run around with LB, use barrage, and then get one shot. completely useless. i have 6/8 classes at level 80, engineer 80 soon, but my ranger is only level 24. there’s nothing i could get from that class that i couldn’t get somewhere else and better. pets are a nuisance 99% of the time, cause aggro that normally wouldn’t happen, attack keeps gates, etc. the only thing they are good for is trolling in 1v1 situations where you down the ranger and they can get a pet heal off. or underwater.

Cufufalating.8479:

… To this day I do not know how he got to such a high rank being such a bad player.

Level = time.
Rank = time.
Gear = time.

Welcome to MMOs, unfortunately. GW2 didn’t break the mold.

Well my main is a warrior, my 2nd 80 is a ranger.
I believe that most of the hate comes from ignorance about rangers and how they can contribute to the war effort.
They might not be the best WvW profession but i do think they matter as support to the zerg. For WvW i use a range pet and the fern hound the first on agressive mode and the second always on avoid combat why because the F2 skill on the hound that grants regeneration to you and allies.
As weapons i swap between long bow and axe+warhorn the later allows you to buff with call of the wild that grants fury might and swiftness to you and allies. My healing skill is the water spring to help out players and not only my self.
And i am not stating this is the best build for WvW its just an example how you can build the ranger to help out even if there are other classes that do same things as well or better.

Now yow cannot really expect that rangers are able to charge like an heavy class, we need to keep some distance and not get ganked or overrun.

Cheers

People hate rangers because the game isn’t about fun to them, it’s about min/maxing. All the talk about how they don’t bring anything to a zerg is rubbish. They bring fun for the player who is playing it, and that is all that is needed. When you have 20 to 80 people running in a blob, why would you care about min / maxing your ranger.

I bring my ranger to zergs, and enjoy playing it. I don’t die much, and I help kill things. Seems like it works.

ghtchill.7613:

To even play in WvW as a Ranger I had to sacrifice a lot of damage to be survivable enough and then there wasn’t much a point. In a large group I could be somewhat useful providing ranged pressure at a choke, but as many have said there are classes that do that better. Perhaps if they lowered the barrage cd and make it not root us to finish, it would be more useful. And of course, as many have said, the pet is absolutely useless in large group/zerg. I have never ever had an issue with Ranger’s pets while playing one of my other 80s. I don’t even notice them, or quickly kill them…but usually I barely see them.

You make valid points; though I think ranged pets survive a lot easier. They still are stupid and take 30 years to hit anyone though. They need a consistent ranged aoe pet.

But I’m curious at the “sacrifice damage to be survivable in wvw part” complaint that’s been floating around here. Most classes for zergplay have to do that too. 0/5/30/30/5 is pretty standard for zerg guardians even though it does terrible damage and is very selfish compared to other guardian builds but it makes them bricks that can give whatever support they can. I suppose that has a purpose though, being the brick. But in any case, pvt is generally stressed in large scale wvw and we generally call dps zerkers “rallybots”. Plus the standard is usually to stack anyways so you can be close for boons. (which also makes range pretty lacking in surviving, honestly).

From what I gather though, the main advantage of classes like the guardian is that their traits can be gained with minimal investment. For example 5 in virtues offers a lot more support by turning virtue activation into giving a lot more useful boons. 5 in honor gives vigor on crit and synergizes with the 15 honor minor which heals on dodge. These traits all work together.

Ranger adept traits are mostly, quite bad or selfish and you generally have to trait much higher into the tree to get anything done. The synergy between the minors is well… pretty meh. Well, wilderness survival is good, but it’s also all selfish stuff… In essence, these things are really good in small scale, but it doesn’t make that big of a difference the bigger the numbers are.

Prysin.8542:

-snip-

Your analysis is bad. You are not considering cooldowns. You are imagining that the warrior drops all his immobilise, and then doesn’t re-apply any ever again.

(With max condi duration) Flurry is an 8.75 sec immobilise on a 8.25 second cooldown (with 20 points in Discipline). Add in Bolas, Leg Specialist and Pin Down, and a warrior can easily, easily, maintain 100% uptime on immobilise.

Over a 120-second period, a warrior can apply 14x Flurry (8.75s), 20x Leg Specialist (2.25s), 7x Bolas (8.75s), 6x Pin Down (6s), for a total of 264.75 seconds of immobilise.

In that same 120-second period, your ranger can apply 7x Intimidating Howl (5.5s), 2x Quicksand (4.5s), 6x Muddy Terrain (4.5s), 1x Entangle (14x 2.25s), 3x Paralyzing Venom (8.25s), 6x Entangling Web (8.25s), for a total of 180.25s

Even if we say that the warrior can only drop the level-1-adrenaline Flurry each time it’s off cooldown, instead of the level-3, the warrior still beats the ranger with 205.25s total.

Finally, consider that sword/sword + longbow condition damage/duration warrior is a perfectly viable build, while your ranger looks like it would seriously struggle to survive with no defensive utility.

It’s touching that you’re so attached to your class, and I’d agree that rangers are often under-appreciated.

But you’re still wrong about this.

Their “I have to use it no matter what” longbow knockback that they all use without regard to where you have an enemy positioned or the AoE at his feet. I’ll be stun locking a warrior after I’ve stripped his stability and they’ll use that gods-be-kitten ed knockback, often letting him escape near-death. BE SMART. ONLY USE THE SKILL TO INTERRUPT ENEMY STOMPS OR PROTECT YOUR ALLIES.

Cause everyone says that I should.

Prysin.8542:

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

Covis.6037:

Every other class does things better.

Actually, that is wrong. No profession comes close to as much Immobilize as rangers, even if the other profession specs for it. And only thief can apply as much poison, as often, as easily. Only the Warrior can match the passive regeneration. Only a guardian can actually bunker as well as a ranger.

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Even these dubious advantages, aren’t actually true. Warrior can apply more immobilize than a ranger, and Necro can apply far, far more fear.

Ok, just to shut you guys up;
Here is a warrior, with what can be considered to be the most possible stacking of immobilize, using traits. I can find no other method of gaining more immobilize from that warrior. Both in terms of spammable attacks (short CD and whatnot) and the ability to apply it.

Total duration, IF ALL STRIKES HIT IN RAPID SUCCESSION: 21.75seconds

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAU8ZAt+Ai5BAQEGxRBAEgpCiBA-j0ABYNCy00CylhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, the way immobilize stacks, and the enemy using foods or whatnot MAY change the outcome. However, bottom line is, this is the MAXIMUM duration you can get with a warrior that i can find. At best, you can possibly wring out 3-4 more seconds by fine tuning your gear.

Now for ranger. Using same foods, traitlines and whatnot.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJBMhMEX3V5YhaJAWPAMvBbF4kp4QHfFitkR1A-j0ABYNBkmOglhFRjVKAIGWB-w

This will probably be the worst ranger build ever, however just to show what you are up against. The “Trappers Expertice” trait grants 1.25 second immobilize when using spike trap. I could possibly double that by taking Potent Traps, but then my spammability of the elite would go down a lot. Entangle applies 14×2.25sec immob pulses.
Entangle alone (if wines are not broken): 31.5seconds
TOTAL DURATION APPLIED: 63.75seconds

Your warrior can do what better then my ranger? I can apply 19.5seconds immobilize every ~20 or so seconds. More then enough to destroy your warrior. All but TWO of my attacks are AOE.

Now for necromancer;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAmCdbMcJAoHAAwtUPAAg0B-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Necromancer could potentially use “Rune of the Necromancer” to gain +20% fear duration. However necromancers are so slow, that one are more likely to use the Traveler Runes (due to overall usefulness) then to take the necromancer runes.

Total fear duration: 8.75 seconds

Now for ranger;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQFAFGAWPAEg/YPAAgFfFitkVEE-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, to explain; Moment of Clarity currently boosts ALL Hard CC applied by rangers. This means that when using Fear attacks on a ranger, you apply 2x the duration. Now stating this on the forums will probably get this bug/oversight nerfed, but i am so sick and tired of you people trying to drag the ranger down that i’ll just make my point perfectly clear.
The Boar pet allows rangers to aquire a RNG drop named “Skull”. Now GW2skills does not show this RNG drop item, but here is a link to the Wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear
Since WIki does not calculate for my gear, i had to go ingame to find the basic duration (before using trait). With the setup shown in the GW2skills builder (106% condition duration) my Skull Fear lasts for 6.25seconds base, and Moment of Clarity DOUBLES that (for some unknown weird reason that probably will get “fixed”, aka nerfed into the ground, soon)

That means that rangers can apply a total of 18.25s of fear. which infact IS more then 200% of what necromancers can do.
Oh and my wolf, which applies Fear in 600 AOE… its CD is 36 seconds, same as necro CD’s, but much longer fear duration.

So ok, 250 was overkill, it was more like 220%
Edit: If the Necro and Ranger are using Norn characters, they can use “become the Wolf” to apply even more fear. HOWEVER, since the ranger has the trait, that means the ranger get to apply EVEN MORE FEAR.

Anyway. If you want to cry, you can do it now. Rangers are better then others, even when others spec for it. So, yeah, enough said.

So you can fear enemys for a long time. Can u also rip the enemy boons and change them to conditions? can u constantly blind the enemy ? can u do ridiculous damage with all skills on low cd? No you cant, you might fear alot more then the necro but the necro can just melt the enemy zerg when its fear is on cd. So i see no point why anyone would take a ranger instead of a necro. Sorry to say but other people are right. Every other class can do whatever the ranger can do an do it better.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Their “I have to use it no matter what” longbow knockback that they all use without regard to where you have an enemy positioned or the AoE at his feet. I’ll be stun locking a warrior after I’ve stripped his stability and they’ll use that gods-be-kitten ed knockback, often letting him escape near-death. BE SMART. ONLY USE THE SKILL TO INTERRUPT ENEMY STOMPS OR PROTECT YOUR ALLIES.

so much this.. especially on pve mobs. though, a lot of classes are guilty of this. mesmer gs 5, guardian banish, warrior hammer 4, elementalist air dagger 5.. etc.. rangers always use it though. i’ve never actually fought a skilled ranger but i have seen some rangers dominate the gate in cof p1. that’s pretty much it. the only real viable ranger builds is cc. damage output for zerker ranger doesn’t make up for super high risk of getting 2-shot. most zerk/power rangers will start off with a few shortbow/longbow auto attacks, then, when you’re 50-75% health, will use LB4 to knock you back (interrupting a heal) then continue with auto attacks and randomly use barrage hoping to kill you(lol)

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

-snip-

-snip-

because in reality, the most reliable (flurry) and the greatest source, is dependent on a 3rd mechanic, adrenaline, which recharges on attacks. Unfortunately, the recharge rate will prolong your casts by a few seconds. Within that timeframe, you will most likely loose 40% of the flurry immob. putting you down to ranger levels by far.

And once again, my point stands firm. Because the warrior Immob is SINGLE TARGET. While all but the Spider pet’s immob is AOE.
And when discussing something, AOE effect > single target effect. This is why people prefer an elementalist over an ranger. Because both is ranged but Ele has more hard hitting AOE skills then ranger. making it more capable against many enemies at once.

Your next argument will be “pets are unreliable”. And that is 100% true, if you do not micromanage them properly.

And yes, i agree with the above. LB4 spam is annoying as hell.

Spicyhash.7605:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Their “I have to use it no matter what” longbow knockback that they all use without regard to where you have an enemy positioned or the AoE at his feet. I’ll be stun locking a warrior after I’ve stripped his stability and they’ll use that gods-be-kitten ed knockback, often letting him escape near-death. BE SMART. ONLY USE THE SKILL TO INTERRUPT ENEMY STOMPS OR PROTECT YOUR ALLIES.

so much this.. especially on pve mobs. though, a lot of classes are guilty of this. mesmer gs 5, guardian banish, warrior hammer 4, elementalist air dagger 5.. etc.. rangers always use it though. i’ve never actually fought a skilled ranger but i have seen some rangers dominate the gate in cof p1. that’s pretty much it. the only real viable ranger builds is cc. damage output for zerker ranger doesn’t make up for super high risk of getting 2-shot. most zerk/power rangers will start off with a few shortbow/longbow auto attacks, then, when you’re 50-75% health, will use LB4 to knock you back (interrupting a heal) then continue with auto attacks and randomly use barrage hoping to kill you(lol)

or, they will bring out a sword + warhorn. Using WH #4. Which hits like 17 wet noodles thrown at you by a physically impaired child (no offense to physically impaired people). Then they try to melee you with sword, but they got no clue how to dodge when sword AA is going, so they root themselves in one place, doing lots of damage while awaiting certain doom once the enemy hits back.

I’m better than you, nana nana boo boo stick your head in dodo, to bad tosh doesn’t play a ranger…

Thanks for the entertaining read….makes me feel all warm and mushy and loved inside. =)

They are an all in one class that cant spec into anything useful in a zerg. (besides immob, but thief does it just as good plus has aoe damage and a great blast finisher)

Prysin.8542:

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

-snip-

-snip-

because in reality, the most reliable (flurry) and the greatest source, is dependent on a 3rd mechanic, adrenaline, which recharges on attacks. Unfortunately, the recharge rate will prolong your casts by a few seconds. Within that timeframe, you will most likely loose 40% of the flurry immob. putting you down to ranger levels by far.

Unfortunately, even a warrior without adrenaline building traits fighting in a crowd builds more than enough adrenaline to be waiting on the cooldown of the skill rather than waiting on the adrenaline to build. Adrenaline specced warriors can safely use the F1 on both of their weapon sets as often as they swap weapons.

And once again, my point stands firm. Because the warrior Immob is SINGLE TARGET. While all but the Spider pet’s immob is AOE.
And when discussing something, AOE effect > single target effect. This is why people prefer an elementalist over an ranger. Because both is ranged but Ele has more hard hitting AOE skills then ranger. making it more capable against many enemies at once.

That’s true. But again, we go back to the fact that to get there on that full immob spec you posted the ranger has sacrificed tremendously in order to make a contribution while others are doing it in standard viable builds.

Having said all that, what they can offer is not negligible, you can make a case for having a ranger running an AoE immob build and hunting the outskirts with the assassin party for downed/fleeing. But even then, your skill group now has a defined spot for a single Ranger filling one highly specialized role. Beyond that person, and possibly a 2nd if you have a large enough force to be running multiple assassin parties, the group is going to be better served by ranger 2 instead bringing a high damage ranged class, or another front line specialist that can get into the middle of it and punch people in the face.

Your next argument will be “pets are unreliable”. And that is 100% true, if you do not micromanage them properly.

And yes, i agree with the above. LB4 spam is annoying as hell.

Even when micromanaged, they still aren’t great… ANet could fix them VERY easily, they have the power, but they haven’t in 1.5 years so there’s little hope of that ever happening.
1) If a Mesmer casts moa morph on ranger pet, suddenly the pet has no problems hitting moving targets. Why? Moa morph animation adds some kind of leap at the end of the pets standard attacks that overcomes the pet handicap.
2) Vet worm mobs have the ability to turn and track moving targets between casting time and throwing their stones. Unless you have movement speed buffs or actively dodge the attack, their projectile WILL hit you. Yet ranger pets are restricted to the moa/drake AI that takes stock of target location at the beginning of cast and then casts/channels to that location only regardless of movement between the time they first decided to cast, cast time, and then execution of ability.
3) Pets use to be able to get up onto walls and attack things that could be targeted- just like Mesmer clones. But apparently that isn’t fair to things on walls, so even birds are now restricted to a 5 foot ceiling. Ranged pets are also restricted with a range/arc that prevents them from being able to attack up a wall and in most cases down a wall, making them 100% ineffective in any siege situation regardless of which side of the wall they are on.
It’s a sad state of affairs that the class is in.

Despite what people say, Rangers actually do more damage than at least a couple of other classes people speak highly of (Warriors and Necros), but their problem is, they don’t build their ranger properly.

Honestly, aside from damage, that’s all they bring. Their pet is close to useless due to many reasons but the my main two are the inability to hit moving targets and F2 which activates maybe 1/10 times when you press it. If you build yourself as support, that’s all your good at, and pretty much a sitting duck. Other classes can bring support and survive much better. They can’t tank any better than other classes and it seriously hurts their damage, if they try. They don’t have good mobility compared to other classes which is kind of funny considering they are Rangers. How do warriors have better mobility exactly.

The only good use I’ve found for mine is pure damage. Yes they are good at that (if you can stay alive). They hit much harder than other classes with AoE damage over time and their burst is about 25% higher than a warrior’s in equal gear. The trick is though.. stay alive, because you can only maybe take 3-4 hits on average before your downed.

Umad.7528:

Prysin.8542:

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

Covis.6037:

Every other class does things better.

Actually, that is wrong. No profession comes close to as much Immobilize as rangers, even if the other profession specs for it. And only thief can apply as much poison, as often, as easily. Only the Warrior can match the passive regeneration. Only a guardian can actually bunker as well as a ranger.

Rangers can apply 250% more fear then necromancers are able to.

Even these dubious advantages, aren’t actually true. Warrior can apply more immobilize than a ranger, and Necro can apply far, far more fear.

Ok, just to shut you guys up;
Here is a warrior, with what can be considered to be the most possible stacking of immobilize, using traits. I can find no other method of gaining more immobilize from that warrior. Both in terms of spammable attacks (short CD and whatnot) and the ability to apply it.

Total duration, IF ALL STRIKES HIT IN RAPID SUCCESSION: 21.75seconds

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAU8ZAt+Ai5BAQEGxRBAEgpCiBA-j0ABYNCy00CylhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, the way immobilize stacks, and the enemy using foods or whatnot MAY change the outcome. However, bottom line is, this is the MAXIMUM duration you can get with a warrior that i can find. At best, you can possibly wring out 3-4 more seconds by fine tuning your gear.

Now for ranger. Using same foods, traitlines and whatnot.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJBMhMEX3V5YhaJAWPAMvBbF4kp4QHfFitkR1A-j0ABYNBkmOglhFRjVKAIGWB-w

This will probably be the worst ranger build ever, however just to show what you are up against. The “Trappers Expertice” trait grants 1.25 second immobilize when using spike trap. I could possibly double that by taking Potent Traps, but then my spammability of the elite would go down a lot. Entangle applies 14×2.25sec immob pulses.
Entangle alone (if wines are not broken): 31.5seconds
TOTAL DURATION APPLIED: 63.75seconds

Your warrior can do what better then my ranger? I can apply 19.5seconds immobilize every ~20 or so seconds. More then enough to destroy your warrior. All but TWO of my attacks are AOE.

Now for necromancer;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAmCdbMcJAoHAAwtUPAAg0B-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Necromancer could potentially use “Rune of the Necromancer” to gain +20% fear duration. However necromancers are so slow, that one are more likely to use the Traveler Runes (due to overall usefulness) then to take the necromancer runes.

Total fear duration: 8.75 seconds

Now for ranger;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQFAFGAWPAEg/YPAAgFfFitkVEE-j0ABYNA00AlhFRjVKAIGWB-w

Now, to explain; Moment of Clarity currently boosts ALL Hard CC applied by rangers. This means that when using Fear attacks on a ranger, you apply 2x the duration. Now stating this on the forums will probably get this bug/oversight nerfed, but i am so sick and tired of you people trying to drag the ranger down that i’ll just make my point perfectly clear.
The Boar pet allows rangers to aquire a RNG drop named “Skull”. Now GW2skills does not show this RNG drop item, but here is a link to the Wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Fear
Since WIki does not calculate for my gear, i had to go ingame to find the basic duration (before using trait). With the setup shown in the GW2skills builder (106% condition duration) my Skull Fear lasts for 6.25seconds base, and Moment of Clarity DOUBLES that (for some unknown weird reason that probably will get “fixed”, aka nerfed into the ground, soon)

That means that rangers can apply a total of 18.25s of fear. which infact IS more then 200% of what necromancers can do.
Oh and my wolf, which applies Fear in 600 AOE… its CD is 36 seconds, same as necro CD’s, but much longer fear duration.

So ok, 250 was overkill, it was more like 220%
Edit: If the Necro and Ranger are using Norn characters, they can use “become the Wolf” to apply even more fear. HOWEVER, since the ranger has the trait, that means the ranger get to apply EVEN MORE FEAR.

Anyway. If you want to cry, you can do it now. Rangers are better then others, even when others spec for it. So, yeah, enough said.

So you can fear enemys for a long time. Can u also rip the enemy boons and change them to conditions? can u constantly blind the enemy ? can u do ridiculous damage with all skills on low cd? No you cant, you might fear alot more then the necro but the necro can just melt the enemy zerg when its fear is on cd. So i see no point why anyone would take a ranger instead of a necro. Sorry to say but other people are right. Every other class can do whatever the ranger can do an do it better.

Glad you can read but all he pointed out is ranger’s can fear more than a necro. He never said they do more AOE damage. Ever. It’s a good thing people read before responding though.

Ragnar.4257:

Prysin.8542:

-snip-

Your analysis is bad. You are not considering cooldowns. You are imagining that the warrior drops all his immobilise, and then doesn’t re-apply any ever again.

(With max condi duration) Flurry is an 8.75 sec immobilise on a 8.25 second cooldown (with 20 points in Discipline). Add in Bolas, Leg Specialist and Pin Down, and a warrior can easily, easily, maintain 100% uptime on immobilise.

Over a 120-second period, a warrior can apply 14x Flurry (8.75s), 20x Leg Specialist (2.25s), 7x Bolas (8.75s), 6x Pin Down (6s), for a total of 264.75 seconds of immobilise.

In that same 120-second period, your ranger can apply 7x Intimidating Howl (5.5s), 2x Quicksand (4.5s), 6x Muddy Terrain (4.5s), 1x Entangle (14x 2.25s), 3x Paralyzing Venom (8.25s), 6x Entangling Web (8.25s), for a total of 180.25s

Even if we say that the warrior can only drop the level-1-adrenaline Flurry each time it’s off cooldown, instead of the level-3, the warrior still beats the ranger with 205.25s total.

Finally, consider that sword/sword + longbow condition damage/duration warrior is a perfectly viable build, while your ranger looks like it would seriously struggle to survive with no defensive utility.

It’s touching that you’re so attached to your class, and I’d agree that rangers are often under-appreciated.

But you’re still wrong about this.

You’re thinking you will have 3 bars of adrenaline permanently, which you wont. Also the ranger would be able to keep perma immob too if the skills were cycled properly.

Rezz.8019:

Rangers are good if you spec them and play them properly.

Unfortunately that is a very small minority of rangers.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Despite what people say, Rangers actually do more damage than at least a couple of other classes people speak highly of (Warriors and Necros), but their problem is, they don’t build their ranger properly.

In normal wvw settings ranger does not out damage necro.
I wouldnt know about dungeon stacking but thats what your statement sounds like its referring to.

Please show me one GOOD gvg team that uses ranger…