Guild Wars 2

@Swagger.1459

It also isn’t the same Server model.

I guess you didn’t read the Answer to FAQ #2.

2) Isn’t this New Base Map Mechanic that does switching Globes the exact same thing that we have now for Match-Ups?

Globe Limit of Zero is used during Tournaments to allow ANet to create the Match-Ups properly.

Should, Would, or Does work…which is better?

How much coding does ANet need to do?

A really exciting Football season between staunch or bitter Rivals leads to a successful NFL SuperBowl is a good example of Team.

It’s this Team Concept that needs to be at the Core of WvW…imho.

Any system that automatically manipulates match-ups on behalf of the players will do this poorly in my opinion.

Thanks for asking…many other folks were probably wondering the same things.

I fully understand your proposals, it’s not necessary to requote… Your plight to save server identity is then destroyed to reform into the same individual failing model we already have…

The alternative does the same except has a healthier immediate and long term outcome…

Your globe idea does nothing to save or move wvw forward… You see all the same problems but then reintroduce the same problems all over and some new ones…

You want to save server identity, yet admit this would change it…

You think time zones will work, yet they won’t…

NA needs to be lumped together in some fashion…

The other side of the pond needs to be lumped together in some fashion…

Segregation had not worked for 3 YEARS! THREE… Eotm was one big experiment… And one that passed the test by all accounts because bodies are there…

Tier 1 (where you admit players are shuffling up to in order to find people to fight) is not an indication of a healthy gw2 wvw PLAYERBASE…

You don’t look at things as a whole… That’s the flaw in your thinking…

I brought up an alternative to your idea yet you kept saying “no, we need to save server identity”… Yet here you are saying… “Yes, it will change server identity”…

Difference is that 3 years of single server has already show its flaws… You have good ideas in general, but that doesn’t mean your solutions are good…

Your medicine fix is the wrong one…

Also, I bring up the fact the teams have equal players on each side and you keep quoting “fan” observer numbers… If you can’t admit the difference then where do these discussions go?

You say server transfers are important to revenue, yet you want Anet to give everybody free transfers?

You want Anet to completely rearrange the ENTIRE gw2 playerbase for wvw when 90% of players don’t care about wvw AT ALL…

It’s nice to have a discussion, but we can’t have a discussion if you don’t answer the tough questions I’m asking… We can’t have a discussion if you just keep quoting the same things over and over either… I read it… I understand completely what you are asking for…

You must take opposing feedback and learn my friend…

We see the same problems, and Einstein was right… There is the difference…

Edit- and right now, your current wvw is down by 40 and sitting mid field while you’re calling out players to run in circular patterns instead of to the goal… Your wvw will lose if you keep doing a different version of the circular pattern play…

@Swagger.1459

You are once again attempting to discuss Megaserver concepts while trashing this Server Based alternative by speaking negatively that often confuses many readers.

You re-interpret what is being proposed to twist what I’m trying to explain. I will not expend energy to correct your twisting of what should be very simple to understand imho.

I get it…you do not agree with a Server Based Solution.

You seriously need to start a New Topic Thread to discuss your Megaserver proposal there & not here.

Please do not attempt to discuss your plan here. This thread’s primary purpose is to discuss a Server Based Solution. You are more than welcome to create a New Topic Thread that can focus discussion on your Megaserver based solution separately from this Topic Thread.

I’ve already suggested to you to create a separate Topic Thread many previous posts.

Megaserver & Server Based Solutions are highly emotional and polar opposites…that if left un-checked will break down into heated arguments.

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

@Swagger.1459

You play innocently & say you’re doing it for discussion.

You are being kindly asked to take your discussion to a New Topic Thread.

Please do so.

The below is a history of your behavior in this Topic thread…that I believe that your motive is to discuss a Megaserver Based Solution, or to discredit & disrupt this Server Based Solution discussion from being productive.

Diku.2546:

Swagger.1459:

Thanks, but I’m talking about this topic and providing relevant feedback to this topic. Really, enough with the personal agenda directed at me and replying to posts I put here into a completely different thread.

Read what I write and put it into context here in this thread. I say something then provide reason why I said that something and provide alternative solutions or commentary.

You all may choose to not reply to my comments, but if you do comment, focus on my post. Not me personally. Stay on topic and put things into better context by simply taking the time to read and understand the messages.

I’ve been nothing but civil and honest with my feedback, enough with the personal “attacking”, quoting of forum rules and assumptions.

Also, I’m not going to say “a nice list of suggestions” just to get diku’s approval. If (s)he wants to post a topic on the community boards (s)he will have to accept all forms of feedback whether it agrees or disagrees.

I do not agree with these suggestions, provided my reasons why, showed better alternatives, and pointed out that it’s too late in the game to change course for the devs JUST LIKE Sekai did… Yet Sekai is thanked and praise just for saying “nice list of suggestions” while I’m singled out as disruptive when I’m mirror many other sentiments by other posters in this thread… That’s disengenuous and also not contributing to the civil discussion and topic at hand.

There is nothing about this idea that bears merit the more I read, and that’s well within my right to comment on. At least I’m providing feedback, not just saying “-1 bad idea” without any reasons why.

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@Crapgame

Swagger.1459 will start with finer points, but eventually will lead the discussion to why a Megaserver solution is better. Then people will take sides…then the whole thread will turn into an argument.

Also, actively trying to steer the Topic thread into a confrontation with innocent comments from other contributors on this specific Topic thread meant to discuss a Server based solution for WvW.

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@Bubi

Sorry to post this, but I know how you feel. Swagger’s discussion about Megaserver solution can be extremely provoking.

Also, to the supporters of Megaserver solution…you probably feel the same about what anything said about your solution.

We really need to keep discussions about Megaserver based & Server based solutions apart because it’s so highly emotionally charged & polar opposites

Swagger.1459 imho appears to be attempting to foment arguments & chaos based on most of the postings being done in this specific Topic thread. Take a look at Swagger’s postings below & decide for yourself:

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Here’s an example that starts out innocently.

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

I do not agree with your over complex idea that segregates the slimming wvw community anymore than it currently is.

By skimming through, you are asking the devs to replace one segregated wvw for another segregated wvw.

Pve is megaserver for reasons.

Spvp is megaserver for reasons.

Eotm is megaserver for reasons.

Wvw should be megaserver for many reasons, not segregated and restricted globe servers.

I read it as:
“Pve is quaggan for reasons.

Spvp is quaggan for reasons.

Eotm is quaggan for reasons.

Wvw should be quaggan for many reasons."

Nope, I don’t like Pve, sPvP or EotM and don’t want wvw to be anything similar to them.

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Unfortunatly diku’s globe segregation ideas are not the right answer at all. We already see the effect of so much spreading of the population. eotm is a test bed as well, and a successful one at that for participation. “Globes” with weekly restrictions do nothing except exaserbate the current problems with population differences.

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

I’m opposing your idea which is well within my right and providing contrasting ideas as feedback. I do not agree with you so I show the areas where I do not agree and show you my solutions so you can see them HERE.

So I oppose your “globe” idea.

I show you what would be a better idea.

You look at my idea in comparison you yours.

We discuss things.

That’s GROUP discussion and leaning and sharing.

You see the word megaserver in my post, or a specific word in someone else’s post, then quickly take that word and sort it out to the many many multiple topics you are trying to separate out. It’s important to read the entire feedback from a poster and put it into the context of this thread they are commenting in, and to comments of other posters.

You cannot select a word and assume the entire post doesn’t belong, you take the entire post and analyze it, learn from it and discuss it.

If you happen to find something you don’t agree with, as we all do, that’s well within your right, but the issue is that topics are interrelated…

This is not just “pro globe” only posters can post. This is a discussion topic, just like any topic, that posters can agree, disagree, ignore, comment on, love, hate…

Some of us, myself included, oppose this idea and have been kind enough to prove you reasons why.

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

The globe idea does nothing but spread players out needlessly and is restrictive… We already have population problems…

This is more of what you need…

Megaserver wvw red vs blue vs green (like eotm).

Wvw objective based gameplay.

Timed PPT matches (like eotm) and rewards for that match based off of rank.

Bimonthly tournament (longer) PPT matches for greater rewards than regular play.

Badges of honor to buy ascended runes and sigils.

“Something of honor” match currency used to buy unique looking wvw legendary armor.

Legendary rune and sigil crafting mastery tracks.

Cool stuff for guilds.

Leaderboards only serve to promote transfers, we don’t need them. Rewards are fine enough.

Enjoy!

Edit- they will throw in all sorts of silly maps, but players will have to live with it at this point while they chase there special ascended and legendary rewards…

Edit 2- the way you format your posts is a bit much. Update the topic if need be and make replies more approachable to read. Address players by quoting them directly. Don’t add in all that additional stuff. Address who you need to address basically please.

I know you put a lot of work into it, but your formatting makes me not want to devote time to deciphering it or trying to put replies into context for proper GROUP discussion.

Good luck!

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Bishop.5938:

Some great ideas in here. I wonder if we will see anything like this. 1 thing though is why would you separate in time zones when each team would be looking for 24/7 coverage?

I’m almost certain the devs will not implement an idea like this. They are already a YEAR into behind the scenes wvw stuff and Colin said that all engineers are working on THE project. There is no changing course.

There are too many flaws with the “globe” idea. Too many globes to choose from. Weekly restrictions to what globes you have access too. Too much spreading.

I mean IF gw2 had wvw population numbers in the millions, then you could probably do a massive scale “global theater of war” idea like this, but there are way too many “slim pickings” in population across the game to do that.

This idea is more of an moba fit than anything really. Could it be made to work IF that’s what was implemented from the very beginning for gw2 wvw? Maybe, but that’s a really big maybe…

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Deli.1302:

Diku.2546:

@Deli

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept & how it really impacts fighting.

I understood it just fine thanks. All I see is the exact same thing we have now, with an overemphasis on ppt and coverage and multiplying the number of maps by four (which would indefinitely lead to most maps being emptier than they are now), instead of facing the reality that most players play for the fights and could care less about the score.

If your answer to it is to allow switching between “globes” (I’m assuming the intent is for more variety?) then it won’t work because EU has plenty of variety right now.

I’m pretty sure most of us do understand too, Diku.

I fully agree with your post Deli, nothing more than the same old same old stuff that keeps everything the same old unfortunately.

And yes, players are there for the fights like you said, not to count ppt just for the sake of ppt… Does there need to be some type of scoring? We all agree yes, but players want to bash on other players and get some loot bags for it ultimately. Not just stand in empty zones beating up a door for meaningless numbers and rewards not worth mentioning…

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Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Samhayn.2385:

At this point I feel like the could close EoTM and just have people be mercenaries on other realms not in you own tier.

Or randomly asign guild/players a color every week.

Since server is sorta just a name at the point you could set up 9 wvw “servers” when you reach the level to go into wvw you pick one of these servers and that who you fight for moving between servers can be done free but is limited to once a month and only out of the wvw season. This still gives the sense your fighting for a team well condensing the wvw population thus increasing the amount of people per map. This can also be monitored to make sure servers don’t get over stacked because you can always close it to incoming transfers.

All I know is something needs to be done to get more people per map because even on tier 3 na I have run around for over an hour with out seeing the enemy.

Close eotm??? You mean the place where people are actually playing and that doesn’t have population issues? The place where obviously players are having fun? That place should be closed? Really? For real? Is this “real life”?

If anything, they should shut down all BLs at this point instead… Just keep EB for y’all…

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@Swagger

I agree you will always be civil. You have to understand…I am not attacking you personally. I am informing you that what you are doing will provoke many in this WvW Community that feel strongly about Server Pride with your attempt to discuss a Megaserver solution.

You are welcome to contribute to this Topic if you offer to help refine its elements.

You are not welcome to contribute to this Topic if you continue to post your Megaserver Concept to hijack this Topic Thread.

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My view is that you are seriously attempting to derail this Topic thread by posting your Megaserver Concept that leads to highly emotional & very vocal responses.

Your innocent & civil discussion about Megaserver in a thread that is focused about a Server based solution will lead to arguments if left un-checked.

Megaserver based concepts and Server based concepts are exact polar opposites. To discuss these topics together will require a professional abritrater which I am not.

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You’re still trying to provoke the WvW Community by bringing up 2 concepts in the same thread that have a lot of strong emotional & vocal supporters to both sides.

You do not need to support this “globe” idea.

Just post I do not support this “globe” idea & be done with it.

You do need to stop trying to bring up these 2 concepts that will provoke arguments.

Also, steering the discussion away from the original intent of the Topic thread is not respectful either.

Thank you for your feedback, but could we get back to the original intent of this Topic thread of discussion of a Server/Globe based Solution without Megaserver or other off topic discussions?

I do not appreciate your attempts at posting Megaserver Concepts in a Topic thread that’s trying to discuss a Server based concept solution.

You’re welcome to join this Topic thread, but stop pretending that encouraging a discussion about Megaserver Concepts in this specific Topic thread will not lead to highly emotional & very vocal responses.

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•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

This is not “pro globe can only post”. I bring up mutiple things and make many references to your topic. You need to put things into better context and take all elements from the entire post. These are interrelated topics, I do oppose your idea and have been civil throughout.

This is how discussions and learning take place, and I’ve provided nothing but constructive feedback.

Edit- You reached out to me, as you have many others, via PM to read and support and BUMP your idea…

One, you reached out to me.

Two, you are inviting feedback.

Three, you must accept all forms of feedback. Opposing feedback is not “trashing”, it’s sharing opposing ideas and thoughts for civil discussion. I see no negative emotional disruption happening here, that’s an assumption on your part.

You invited me to your thread, so I’m here discussing this serious topic in a positive way.

Swagger.1459:

This is not “pro globe can only post”. I bring up mutiple things and make many references to your topic. You need to put things into better context and take all elements from the entire post. These are interrelated topics, I do oppose your idea and have been civil throughout.

This is how discussions and learning take place, and I’ve provided nothing but constructive feedback.

Megaserver & Server Based Solutions are highly emotional and polar opposites…that if left un-checked will break down into heated arguments.

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

@Swagger.1459

I did not reach out to you. I was responding to your comment to another contributor.

Once again…you’re Innocently masking your motive & joined the discussion by making a comment on my reply to Mal.

Here’s how this discussion between me & you started.

I did not reach out to you.

You made a comment to a reply that was directed to Mal below.

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

@Mal

You might be right…existing WvW Communities will get Reset, but would hopefully re-form around the best Time Zone & Language for each Globe’s population.

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Population Reboot

All Players are allowed to return to their Old Server transformed into New Globe

Reboot allows Communities to re-form around Time Zone & Language

Time Zone & Language helps to Label the Globe Community that forms there

It helps players choose the right Globe to call Home

Time Zone Label can be changed at a Globe’s Annual Voting event

Time Zone & Label Mechanics Do Not prevent players from doing anything in WvW

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Time Zone/Language Label

Globes are Labeled after a Time Zone. This Time Zone Mechanic is only a Label

Communities Form around this Label

Also, there is a Language mechanic to help properly Label a Community that forms for each Globe

New Players before choosing a Globe…are shown the Language preference distribution of its population…primary & secondary Languages of players for the Globe

Local & International Communities Form around Globes using these Labels

Time Zone & Label Mechanics Do Not prevent players from doing anything in WvW.

“Existing communities will get reset”… So your plan resets communities and so called “server pride” anyway… Yet keeps us in the same individual server failing model….

Yeah… If you can’t see the flaws of your own system and arguments I’m really sorry

If you can’t distinguish fans from players I’m sorry too…

Your entire model fails to help resurrect wvw in any way and would be a complete waste of resources at this point unfortunately…

Your solutions are not realistic and don’t address the main problems we have already seen over 3 YEARS… They cause more problems and headache for zero net gain…

Einstein has a famous phrase… It applies to your globe idea…

PM to me 22 days ago titled “would you help?”

“Hey Swagger,

Would you consider helping with supporting a grassroots movement for change in WvW?

I’m trying to propose an Alternative Base Map Mechanic. If you have time…sorry…it’s a long post…take a peek.

If you like the idea…please post your support to bump the thread & encourage others to consider it too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Reboot-the-Base-Map-Mechanic-Population/first#post5710744

Thank you,
Diku"

Swagger.1459:

PM to me 22 days ago titled “would you help?”

“Hey Swagger,

Would you consider helping with supporting a grassroots movement for change in WvW?

I’m trying to propose an Alternative Base Map Mechanic. If you have time…sorry…it’s a long post…take a peek.

If you like the idea…please post your support to bump the thread & encourage others to consider it too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Reboot-the-Base-Map-Mechanic-Population/first#post5710744

Thank you,
Diku"

@Swagger.1459

I’ll be honest. I probably did send you that PM 22 days ago.

I sent it to you once and never again.

I do not spam players.

Yes, I am trying to get a grassroots movement going.

It’s really embarrassing to ask players to help save the WvW game mode that I love.

It’s really rough, takes a lot of time, is mind numbing thankless work, and players are often very mean to me for asking.

So would you help in a positive & constructive way?

If not please leave in peace & stop trying to disrupt this Topic Thread, or attempt to Hijack it to discuss your MegaServer Based Alternative based on my observation concerning the content of your typical posts to this Topic Thread.

Yours truly,
Diku

Dude, you’re kind of creeping me out that you dug for & found a PM that I might have sent to you that is 22 days old.

So it’s disingenuous to say you never reached out to me…

Swagger.1459:

So it’s disingenuous to say you never reached out to me…

Swagger.1459:

Your entire model fails to help resurrect wvw in any way and would be a complete waste of resources at this point unfortunately…

Your solutions are not realistic and don’t address the main problems we have already seen over 3 YEARS… They cause more problems and headache for zero net gain…

Einstein has a famous phrase… It applies to your globe idea…

@Swagger.1459

Ok…you win.

I reached out to you for help in that PM that I might have sent out to you 22 days ago.

How sincere do I have to be when asking for help?

The Topic needs to remain focused, and not discussing Topics that innocently lead to arguments.

It’s already embarrassing that I have to ask you to help save the WvW game mode that I love & get publicly humiliated in the process by you.

I get it…you will always remain civil, but your motive is not imho.

Your past posts are carefully crafted to confuse, disrupt, and hijack this Server Based Solution Topic in favor of a MegaServer Solution.

I get it…you do not agree with a Server Based Solution.

I did address the main problems that you raised, but you chose to ignore & discredit the answer.

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

It does address the main problems we have already seen over 3 YEARS.

I guess you didn’t read the Answer to FAQ #5.

It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s better than our Current Tier Base Map Mechanic imho.

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5) How do you propose to stop a single super stacked and strong Globe from buying up guilds & dominating all Globes?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

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Players can continue to Globe stack if they want. Powerful Guilds can continue to try to dominate the Top 3 Rank WvW positions

ANet would probably adjust the Weekly Globe limit that players can visit to 1 for the week to force the #1 Ranked NA & EU Globes to become the King of the Hill

If Weekly Globe limit is set to 1. Once a player attacks a Globe

That Specific Chosen Globe is the only Globe that the player will be able to attack for the whole week…until the next Weekly Globe Reset occurs

A very large Guild could hold hostage the Top 3 Ranked Globes, but the New Base Mechanic will at least allow all the Lower Ranked Globes to attack them

Current Base Map Mechanic does not even allow the Lowest Ranked World to attack the #1 Ranked WvW World

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Lower Ranked Globes earn more points attacking Higher Ranked Globes

Higher Ranked Globes earn less points attacking Lower Ranked Globes

Home Globe Team will be shown the 3 Top Globes attacking in a random order to provide targeting

King of Hill Buff – Bottom 3 WvW Ranked Worlds get an automatic buff when attacking any Top WvW Ranked World’s Home Globes. Cross Global Theaters of War attacks also trigger Buff

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If ANet has to enforce a Weekly Globe Limit of 1 Globe

Severely stacked Globes will be exposed to attack from All Globes, but their armies would be forced to divide itself in retaliation attacks along multiple Globe fronts

Bottom 3 Ranked Globes actually always get an Automatic Buff for attacking any Top 3 Globes

Top 3 Ranked Globes really don’t benefit from attacking the Bottom 3 Ranked Globes

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Nothing will prevent all Globes from picking 1 Globe to attack, but given the mechanic that encourages players to visit 0-3 Globes…you can be pretty sure…somebody will decide to attack a different Globe to raise their Home Globe’s Rank over the other Globes

Globes Base design is to encourage Local & International Communities to form

Globe identity encourages a Strong Sense of Community & Hard Fought Rivalries imho

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This is a long term solution that encourages Local & International WvW Communities to form & become established…then nurtured

Over time…Communities will be born, grow up, age, and die…the cycle of life

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Both NA & EU #1 Ranked Globes would earn less for being the King of the Hill…because nobody is above them in Rank

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Players from EU Globes can attack NA Globes by visiting them

Players from NA Globes can attack EU Globes by visiting them

The Globe based design allows players from all 24 NA Globes & 27 EU Globes to move fluidly across all Globes

Current Base Map Mechanic Does Not Allow players to fluidly fight across all World Servers

It’s more fun to be able to fight in any Globe of your choice for the week

Current Base Map Mechanic has you typically fighting the same Server in the same Tier for weeks…if not months…over and over again

The only restriction to being the 0-3 Globe Limit for players. This number that can be adjusted to 1 Globe if necessary by ANet to prevent un-fair matches & to keep players from gaming the system

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Players can choose to fight in any NA & EU Globe

WvW is open 24/7….and now…players can find a Globe that is active…even if it’s Night Time for their Home Globe…because it’s definitely Day Time on an International Globe to that player

Let me remind you again…

Megaserver & Server Based Solutions are highly emotional and polar opposites…that if left un-checked will break down into heated arguments.

This is why I am politely asking you not to discuss your MegaServer ideas here.

Would you please just stop & leave me alone?

Please peacefully leave this Topic Thread that is focused on a Server Based Solution discussion.

Please stop disrupting the discussion on a Server Based Solution.

Please Start a New Topic Thread to discuss your Megaserver Based Solution & Proposal there & not here.

Yours truly,
Diku

I’m having a civil discussion here and gathering information on your idea and discussing things you bring up. All of which are relevant to your topic.

Swagger.1459:

I fully understand your proposals, it’s not necessary to requote… Your plight to save server identity is then destroyed to reform into the same individual failing model we already have…

Swagger.1459:

I’m having a civil discussion here and gathering information on your idea and discussing things you bring up. All of which are relevant to your topic.

@Swagger.1459

How much longer do you need to gather information?

Would you just please leave me & this Topic Thread alone?

I get it…you do not agree with a Server Based Solution.

Please stop disrupting or trying to hijack this Topic’s discussion thread that is really focused on providing a Server Based Solution in a positive & constructive way.

Please Start a New Topic Thread to discuss your Megaserver Based Solution & Proposal there & not here.

Megaserver & Server Based Solutions are highly emotional and polar opposites…that if left un-checked will break down into heated arguments.

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

Note to developers:

Just in case.

Using Parts of this proposal without the core Base Map Mechanic change may not work as intended

Note to WvW Community:

Read 1st Post if you read it last month. Lots of changes done from last month.

Reminder to developers when coding the WvW Universe:

WvW VISION

1) World based War…that’s why it’s called WvW.

There could easily be 3 Worlds to 1,000 Worlds at War.

New Worlds can easily join the War in the future.

Old Worlds can be retired from the War if its population can’t support it.

2) System that allows World Communities to grow or survive.

All Worlds should be able to increase their WvW Home Rank themselves, or through Players Creating Alliances with other Enemy Worlds by teaming up.

Low Ranked Worlds that have a low or declining population level are automatically protected & allowed to survive.

3) War between Worlds should typically have no borders, but should have limitations to reduce or prevent un-fair matches.

All Players/Guilds are given the ability to attack any World.

All Players/Guilds are given the ability to team up & play together with friends that have moved to other Enemy Worlds.

Map Mechanics will be in place that scales and can be adjusted to reduce or prevent un-fair matches.

Interesting ideas and debate.

WvW has so much potential, and is a major selling point of GW2. It needs to be accessible and meaningful. Server identity and loyalty should matter.

I suspect ANet has already made their decisions internally, for a reveal in January. So there’s not much chance they’ll alter course now, no matter how good the proposals/ideas in this thread.

Anyone know a game that listens to its players first?

Sytherek.7689:

Interesting ideas and debate.
WvW has so much potential, and is a major selling point of GW2. It needs to be accessible and meaningful. Server identity and loyalty should matter.

Agree.

hope devs are reading this, and working on new stuff.

WvW is addictive when there’s action at a certain pace.

All we want is great armies and great wars, our enemy, that is between us and these epic is just empty maps where we only walking around.

Diku and others have a lot of good ideas but there is one BIG flaw, “Anet”. Until they come out of their little box and communicate with us, all is in vain.

Taking bits and pieces of ideas, mix matching them, you get the smorgasbord we currently have.

They won’t tell us what they’re doing or long term vision and when they do, it’s vague. We don’t want to spoil the surprise. Look at the latest one, 9 pages before a dev responded and said " you’re confused". I guess so, you tell us you’re doing this but nothing about how you have them set to work.

They need to set up a dedicated beta test server for WvW, implement their proposed changes, create a CDI here for those changes, let the players test it and report their findings on the CDI. Rinse and repeat until you get it right.

This can be done on Friday to Saturday to reset. No home server, color oriented, and auto-balanced. No loot, no score (unless that is a test), maybe a chest at the end for participating.

Without 2 way communication, All is in Vain!!!

Got your mail but by the gods I had trouble reading your posts…

From what I understand, correct me if I’m wrong, you want to make it so we pick a team (“Globe”) that has 4 maps to defend, and can attack x amount of other maps whenever we want with a limit x on the players.

Its better than that rumoured alliance system but I’m not really feeling it as a solution. What is to stop top tier globes from farming weaker globes to oblivion? (if its somewhere in your faq or something, I can’t read it sorry, I tried I really did.)

Megaserver all the way.

Swagger.1459:

You want Anet to completely rearrange the ENTIRE gw2 playerbase for wvw when 90% of players don’t care about wvw AT ALL…

Thats tha main problem, IMHO.
I wanted to propose relics like in DAOC, but they should split PVE again for that to work…i was away for 2y and it shows, lol.

But thats definitely way to go, give PVE players something worthy to enter WVW

@Snow

Hope this answers your question.

Let me know if you can’t Click & Open Spoilers below.

Should, Would, or Does work…which is better?

How much coding does ANet need to do?

Taken from 1st Post FAQ #5.

How do you propose to stop a single super stacked and strong Globe from buying up guilds & dominating all Globes?

Megaserver Based Solution advocates…please create your own Topic Thread to discuss your ideas seperately from this Server Based Solution Topic Thread.

I’ll promise to respect your Topic Thread and not disrupt or discredit your ideas in your Topic Thread.

This proposal is not perfect, but at least it allows players to go where the fun is without sacrificing Server Pride & Identity.

Once the Base Map Mechanic is replaced…Server/Globe Loyalty & Passion can be used to fuel the battles that will rage across all Globes.

Any system that automatically manipulates match-ups on behalf of the players will do this poorly imho.

This Server based solution lets players decide their own match-ups individually…while collectively encouraging a War between Worlds on a massive scale.

Yours truly,
Diku

Megaserver & Server Based Solutions are highly emotional and polar opposites…that if left un-checked will break down into heated arguments.

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Nikola.3841:

Swagger.1459:

You want Anet to completely rearrange the ENTIRE gw2 playerbase for wvw when 90% of players don’t care about wvw AT ALL…

Thats tha main problem, IMHO.
I wanted to propose relics like in DAOC, but they should split PVE again for that to work…i was away for 2y and it shows, lol.

But thats definitely way to go, give PVE players something worthy to enter WVW

Yeah, you can’t shake up the 90% because of a dying game mode…

I agree, there needs to be some very strong incentives to draw and keep players because it’s simply not worth the time at all right now for most players…

Proposal does shake up the population, but keep in mind the following:

All Players are allowed to return to their Old Server transformed into New Globe

Reboot allows Communities to re-form around Time Zone & Language

Time Zone & Language helps to Label the Globe Community that forms there

It helps players choose the right Globe to call Home

Time Zone Label can be changed at a Globe’s Annual Voting event

Time Zone & Label Mechanics Do Not prevent players from doing anything in WvW

Diku, have you had any inkling of communication from Anet if they are looking at this or considering portions of if?

Diku.2546:

Proposal does shake up the population, but keep in mind the following:

---

All Players are allowed to return to their Old Server transformed into New Globe

Reboot allows Communities to re-form around Time Zone & Language

Time Zone & Language helps to Label the Globe Community that forms there

It helps players choose the right Globe to call Home

Time Zone Label can be changed at a Globe’s Annual Voting event

Time Zone & Label Mechanics Do Not prevent players from doing anything in WvW

Anet is not going to shake up the entire game jut for the wvw players… 90% don’t do it rule for anything pvp related… Nor will they give out free transfers game wide…

Do you understand anything about the technology behind servers btw?

Edit- So the devs have been working on wvw for a year already and have a team of engineers working on it… Do you realistically think ncsoft and Anet are going to throw away a year worth of A LOT of money and A LOT of people hours to do this idea?

Yeah…you’re right. Need to modify the proposal.

Please…Reboot the Current Population – One Time Free Transfer

All Players emailed 1 Free Pass to change their Chosen Globe.

Account Bound with an Expiration Date

Nobody really “Kicked Off”.

Apologies…Appreciate the Feedback & Correction.

No word from ANet. Doing anything except Constructively & Positively discussing this concept could cause a Topic removal. Even if they did get in touch with me…I’d probably be bound not to discuss any details.

So I guess the answer would be “Yes” when you quit posting, lol.

@Loosmaster

Chuckles, but I’d stop posting too if another solution gets revealed.

Sadly…Whatever ANet did up till this point is…

Sunk Cost

Some bad decisions can’t be fixed by throwing more resources at it, or tweaking it.

imho

Cornerstone needs to be set correctly or the whole skyscraper will not build as tall as you want it to.

A building could collapse or function poorly if the Base Design isn’t built on a solid fundamental design.

The core needs to be Team Based.

All lucrative Sports are Team Based & have a Solid Identity.

Franchise…is that a marketing term? Well it applies here…for ANet to consider.

Ok…you can bring up Tennis…but that’s like sPvP.

As an example:

NFL SuperBowl is darn successful on having multiple teams compete…and high school players dream of making it into the NFL.

One thing about high school, college, and professional football…is that they all share a team identity at its core.

ANet’s skyscraper for WvW will be limited if they choose the wrong cornerstone to build with.

Choose wrong…and you’ll get the best Shoot Em Up game ever that’s based on anonymous random teams, but ANet will never have the ability to be the next eSport SuperBowl & setting up a Franchise model if they really care about the bottom line.

Hmmm…speaking for myself & not others. Professional sports is a good example to use.

I think many players are motivated to play for their Guild or Server for camaraderie.

It’s this shared Camaraderie/Pride that has the potential to nurture a strong sense of community.

It’s this kind of Pride that creates a Strong Sense of Community which is the backbone behind many Good & Hard Fought Rivalries imho.

A really exciting Football season between staunch or bitter Rivals leads to a successful NFL SuperBowl.

The core message still goes back to Pride based on a unique identity…it starts out in High School, grows in College, and peaks in Professional Sports…this concept of Team Pride.

We need to build WvW around this unique pride…

World Server is a very large slew of people in one sweep…

Guild size can be small or large…

They all share one thing in common…a unique identity & pride.

This Topic thread is discussing the merits of Server Pride.

I’d recommend that you create a New Topic Thread to discuss any Megaserver Based Solution or ideas to avoid provoking arguments here.

Diku.2546:

It’s this kind of Pride that creates a Strong Sense of Community which is the backbone behind many Good & Hard Fought Rivalries imho.

Now imagine DAOC at beginning…people have to wait few hours to get spot for leveling last few levels, because camps for that level were very rare…then they get spot and exp 2-3 hours…then someone attacks your realm and people suicide so they can teleport to bind spot (because running back would take half an hour).

The catch? You lose exp you got at those 2-3 hours if you didn’t level meanwhile.

Now THAT kind of server pride would be interesting to see here

(although, to be honest, I never saw something like that in my later MMO career, and I played quite a few MMOs)

@Nikola

I’ll pass on that DAOC mechanic.

I’m not quite understanding it & it’s definitely not part of the Base Map Mechanic that is being proposed here.

One thing that I understood was the passion of players is important.

I have to agree, players that fight for a greater cause…that is their World Team…can be very emotional.

I’d like to see that kind of crazy passion in the epic WvW battles fought between staunch & bitter rivalries that I can envision it to be.

Diku.2546:

@Nikola

I’ll pass on that DAOC mechanic.

I’m not quite understanding it & it’s definitely not part of the Base Map Mechanic that is being proposed here.

Its quite simple, let me try to adjust it for gw2:

Each server has 2 keeps where it keeps their relics.
At start, everything is even…then server A takes relic froms erver B and their chance to get precursor drop doubles, while other server chances halves. Take another, and server A has 4 relics and 4 times better chances, while server B is down to 1/4.

I guarantee you that you’d see angry hordes of PVE only players coming to take their relics back (and steal other server ones, too)

@Nikola

Hmmm…very interesting.

Actually this sounds like the Old WvW Orb of Power Event.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orb_of_Power

Might not be advisable based on it’s past history of hacking & in-balance.

In the November 1st, 2012 update Orbs were removed from the game, due to hacking and balance issues.

Will still think about it though…just trying to figure out how players would abuse this.

It does bear merit…to provide a very strong incentive to getting your relic back.

@Nikola

To be honest…Past history on the Orb of Power might not support adding this back in as an Event.

Need to be careful not to code too many Base Map Mechanic Events that could impact performance.

But, if they took out the Central PvE Laser Event…hmmm.

Which reminds me…I have to add it to the below…the PvE Laser Event with release of HoT.

Current proposal for Events are as follows:

PART III – Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.39

j) Events – PvE & WvW

Current
…PvE – Hero Challenges
…PvE – Jumping Puzzles – Mistwrought Vault & Obsidian Sanctum
…WvW – Breakout (with HoT release) – Removal Pending
…WvW – Borderland PvP Blood Lust Buff
…WvW – Eternal Battle Mercenaries
…WWW – Tournament Seasons – Rewards based on WvW Home Globe Rank
…WvW – Weekly Reset
…WvW – Guild Missions (with HoT release) – See related – [Reward System-Guild-Player]

Not Implemented

…WvW – New Globe Launch Queue – New Globe launches once enough players (ANet to determine number) have paid gems in advance & selected a matching Time Zone. Players are immediately charged gems & moved to new Globe when it does launch. Percent to launch & matching Time Zone displayed to players.

…WvW – Weekly Reset for Geographic Theaters of War are assigned different reset times based on Time Zone

…WvW – Weekly or Monthly Battle Leagues – Rewards based on WvW Home Globe Rank

…WvW – Annual Home Globe Theater’s Time Zone Re-Election by WvW Vote Ballot NPC

Nikola.3841:

Diku.2546:

@Nikola

I’ll pass on that DAOC mechanic.

I’m not quite understanding it & it’s definitely not part of the Base Map Mechanic that is being proposed here.

Its quite simple, let me try to adjust it for gw2:

Each server has 2 keeps where it keeps their relics.
At start, everything is even…then server A takes relic froms erver B and their chance to get precursor drop doubles, while other server chances halves. Take another, and server A has 4 relics and 4 times better chances, while server B is down to 1/4.

I guarantee you that you’d see angry hordes of PVE only players coming to take their relics back (and steal other server ones, too)

Probably 90% of the PvE’rs have no clue of the World bonuses WvW gives them

Loosmaster.8263:

Probably 90% of the PvE’rs have no clue of the World bonuses WvW gives them

And if they do, they probably think its not worth to get 10% gold increase per kill in pve if you have to play for HOURS in wvw to get it…meanwhile, you could farm 10000% more gold just playing pve

Same with most other bonuses

Yeah those bonuses are meaningless, nobody really cares.

Most important thing that needs to happen is incentive, not a forced “incentive”, to get more players in there… Personal rewards and personal loot gains and personal character progress is the hook that most players care about… Not some % number that they could care less about.

Updating Proposal will stop once this thread gets too old.

Thank you for helping to fine tune this proposal.

Updated the following based on player feedback from

Swagger.1459
Nikola.3841

Please…Reboot the Current Population – One Time Free Transfer

Population Reboot & Time Zone/Language Label

Population Reboot

All Players emailed 1 Free Pass to change their Chosen Globe. Account Bound with an Expiration Date set by ANet

Reboot allows Communities to re-form around Time Zone & Language

Time Zone & Language helps to Label the Globe Community that forms there

It helps players choose the right Globe to call Home

Time Zone Label can be changed at a Globe’s Annual Voting event

Time Zone & Label Mechanics Do Not prevent players from doing anything in WvW

Events – PvE & WvW

Current
…WvW – Into the Oasis (with HoT release)

Removed
…WvW – Breakout (with HoT release)

…WvW – Borderland PvP Blood Lust Buff (with HoT release)

PM’d to support this thread not sure why cos not very active on these forums.

Good on you Diku for trying to mix things up alittle and fix wvw which is my most favoured game type. Unfortunately, I don’t see anything here that is going to make wvw a better place for me.

I like playing in a variety of times across my server with a variety of nationalities, can’t see how this proposal isn’t going to destroy this for me despite your claims otherwise. I just want to jump in and play not have to run a diary of who of my many friends is going where and when. Sometimes it’s hard enough getting guildies and friends together even when they are on the same server so I think the logistics may just be too difficult with “globes”. I have to agree with one other poster that did say…“things will just end up as they are anyway” The globes strike me as just another name for servers, may as well just merge some servers and see what happens, it will certainly mix things up alittle without a total reboot. This along with a scoring rejig away from the focus on PPT might be just enough to fix WvW

Some globes will have more appeal than others, that is the way of human nature. The "globes " that everyone will want to play in will always be full…the globes cannot have infinite numbers purely with server logistics. There has to be a cap as there are already issues with map blobs and lag in fights as we all well know.

WvW needs vastly better and unique rewards for combative play not for pve within wvw.
WvW needs less emphasis on PPT and more reward for fights
WvW needs less lag and more consistency in ping-this has improved somewhat but is nowhere near perfect.
New bl’s have some good ideas but generally there is a kitten ton of running for not alot of fights.

Ready for your standard reply of “think you have misunderstood” to any post that doesnt support the “globes”…but I think I understand very well thanks.

@Shazmataz

Thank you for the bump & feedback.

This proposal isn’t perfect, but go back to the Very 1st post & look for the FAQ and Answers section.

There’s a few explanations there…it might not be the answer you agree with, but it’s an alternative that at least preserves sever pride…which this topic is trying to build upon constructively.

Chuckles…you did read the FAQ right? Just checking…if you did…sorry this solution isn’t your cup of tea.

Yours truly,
Diku

p.s.
I stopped doing pm…players don’t really care.

Those that do care end up arguing with a lot of mean & bitter players that ANet hasn’t learned to deal with.

I read it, still think that what you are trying to do has the best intentions but unconvinced the outcome will be any different structure wise than what we currently have.

About 10 times more people from BG (T1 server) are around 2 tree farms of elder trees than in all WVW maps combined.

Now imagine this…in best pvp MMO ever, DAOC, you had to go to farthest keep in your RVR zone just to get access to top tier craft forge…and enemy knew that…and waited you along the way…oh, and you had to have control of your keep to have access to top level crafting at all, of course.

Pure genius, I tell you

Crafting was also extremely slow and tedious, so your guild really liked you, to the point that you’d call for help and immediately get 20+ people just to escort you there and keep pesky stealthers away from you

I support this proposal.

Not sure where the actual big change will go.
Free transfer might be a good idea, but with everyone having the chance for a free transfer, the result can end being even more uneven or unfair.

I am actually supportive of some sort of server merger.
Preferably if done with accordance of some (if not all) of the server’s consent.

It won’t be hard for Anet to reach out to some of the server’s key WvW players and have them poll the general wishes of their active players.

Anyway, WvW is dying hard and the small announced changes will not help us.
The mystery around the big change is also not helping as this will take months to release I assume and I believe our community doesn’t have months to live anymore…

@Ryu Kaisus

Thank you for your kind support.

@Fazz Um

We can only hope ANet will make the right decisions. This proposal is meaningless, but at least I’ve done my best in trying to provide feedback that I think could help save the WvW game mode that many of us fell in love with.

This proposal is not the perfect solution & there are many others with differing opinions on what should be done. I’d prefer not to argue the merits at this point.

I do believe that 3 major things would help our WvW game mode imho.

It’s advice that comes from the heart, and I’m not going to argue with folks if it’s right or wrong. Your advice is fine, but this is just how I feel…take it or leave it. I’m almost done with playing GW2 since HoT launched & ruined WvW imho.

1) Consolidate Population

2) Fix Broken Base Map Mechanic

3) Return Alpine Map

This proposal answers these 3 questions in the following way for those not inclined to read the 1st post again.

1) All Players emailed 1 Free Pass to change their Chosen Globe. Account Bound with an Expiration Date set by ANet.

Rebooting the Population this way has minimal impact imho. Only the WvW players will really understand the Free Pass & will use it before the Expiration Date.

2) Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system.

Sure there are flaws to this Globe based system. I’ll not lie.

Here’s the best answer I can give about the flaw to this Globe based system:

How do you propose to stop a single super stacked and strong Globe from buying up guilds & dominating all Globes?

3) The Alpine Map provides the best functionality for WvW imho. This is like Classic Coke vs New Coke. Coca Cola realized their mistake & fixed it by putting Classic Coke back on the shelf. We now have 2 products as a result.

I’ve just about found my inner peace & can give up playing GW2 WvW. This proposal isn’t perfect. Megaserver is an alternative & if it’s chosen…good for the advocates…because I’ll have moved on.

Maybe one day Dikku but today is not that day. After the fiasco with the Pact Commander AOE Loot not allowed in WvW, I’ve resorted to farming PvE events to craft Twilight. The new way to do it is even more tedious and time consuming.

@Loosmaster

Crafting does provide a strong lure back to why folks play. Smiles…as long as you’re having fun.

@WvW Community

Updating Proposal will stop once this thread gets too old.

Added 1 Live Beta Map (Hideable) – Reserved for ANet to use for continuous testing & hosting developer events

Part III) Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.41

k) Maps

Current
…3 Borderlands, 1 Eternal Battle, & EotM

Not Implemented
…1-2 Borderlands, 1 Eternal Battle, EotM, & 1 Live Beta (Hideable)

Please note:

Borderland Maps – Mix, Swap, or Reduce

Less is more?

Diku.2546:

@Loosmaster

Crafting does provide a strong lure back to why folks play. Smiles…as long as you’re having fun.

---

@WvW Community

Updating Proposal will stop once this thread gets too old.

---

Added 1 Live Beta Map – Reserved for ANet to use for continuous testing & hosting developer events

---

Part III) Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.41

k) Maps

Current
…3 Borderlands & 1 Eternal Battle

Not Implemented
…1-2 Borderlands, 1 Eternal Battle & 1 Live Beta (Hideable)

---

Please note:

Borderland Maps – Mix, Swap, or Reduce

Less is more?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

---

Borderland Maps – Mix, Swap, or Reduce

Players first appear in corners of the Eternal Battle Map with this proposal

Mixing, swapping, or REDUCING the number of Borderland maps used is possible with this proposal, but I’m not sure if it’s feasible from a programming standpoint

Anet has a closed beta, they are not just going to open it to the public solely for wvw and not the rest of the game. It’s a wasted endeavor, and they will not change course to open up easy access beta for all. Anet is hush hush, NDA and all, and that’s a corporate decision that will never change.

No purpose to host special dev events in beta, that should happen on live servers.

I support this and I think It’d be a great Idea in general. I do not like the fact of servers being removed and I want the old boarderlands back myself. If only anet would take the time to cater to the game mode that has half of their playerbase. I only play wvw and its all I do.