Guild Wars 2

Aeolus.3615:

Swamurabi.7890:

Taobella.6597:

i read enough WvW forums to the point i feel sorry that Gaile waste his time on reading most of this.

Honestly i feel like he one of the few dev really trying to put in effort to make game better. everyone just kitten talk him.

Gaile is female. Most of her posts are to the GW2 community in general. She likes frogs. Unfortunately, WvW does not have someone that talks to our community like Gaile does. She mains a ranger, one of a few classes that has been mostly unwanted in WvW.

Dont forget the dual bow build, and she is a ninja as well.

^ my bad i auto assume guy in everything XD an my point was attest she tries.

an i remember double bow post i posted on it saying i play double short bow thief =p

Respectfully, a reminder about “forum etiquette” is not likely to fix what is causing the toxicity in this forum about wvw game mode.

I’m not condoning the rudeness, disrespect and general negativity in the forum lately but asking nicely hasn’t got the wvw player community very far with getting desired content and change. Can I politely suggest warning and infracting the people flame posting rather than treating the wvw community with a broad brush?

What are we to do as concerned wvw players wanting to have fun and enjoy our favoured game mode?? During the last ama wvw-ers were directed to this forum to make comment that the dev’s could read and comment upon. There is very little response from Anet forthcoming. Hence, the degeneration of posts due to frustration.

We just want some improvements and parity in content with pve/pvp!

Makes post about forum behaviour, topic devolves into massive toxicity anyway, god bless the forums.

We are closing this thread because WVW threads are not allowed.

Hevoskuuri.3891:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

I am sorry if players feel that way. I see it in posts, sure. But I believe we’ve made it clear that the game mode has not been abandoned. That was confirmed quite recently when a dev made some comments about upcoming changes. Unfortunately, the thread devolved into dev bashing, and the OP asked that we remove it.

I feel that while things may not be perfect, they are not as dire as some forum members paint them. Continuously dwelling on the negative isn’t necessary or productive and it doesn’t represent the true nature of the game mode.

Thank you Gaile for this wonderful post.

All this ranting about the state of WvW on the forums is complete nonsense. The game mode is most definitely not dead, it’s been running stable for the entire time GW2 has been alive. Many players have quit the game, sure, and that shows, but the population is still generally huge, which means people are having fun with the gamemode.

Mechanics-wise, nothing has really changed. WvW today is not any worse than WvW 4 years ago, quite the opposite. All the improvements have made it only better. The mode hasn’t changed for the worse, but the community has. Everyone is so salty these days. I never hear or see complaints in-game or anywhere else, just here on the forums. My guess is, the people who rant here don’t actually even bother to play the gamemode, they just like to be loud and demand more things.

Sure, with GW2’s old engine and balancing difficulties, WvW is not perfect, and will always need polishing. But take a second and think about this: despite the lag, balancing issues, poor rewards and salty complainers, literally hundreds and hundreds of players still log in every single day and form queues in WvW on almost every server. Dozens of WvW guilds raid every single night. The gamemode is far from dead and abandoned, and people are loving it. Personally, I’ve never had more fun as I am having now.

Post like these trigger me so hard in wanting to correct you, but whatever.

The OP point is……how people talk to each other and often, we all should know that many times it degrade to personal attacks or scurrilous attempts. Some comments that seems innocent at the beginning can easily become hostile the next moment base on how they choose to view it or the way to reply.

To start with, everyone has alter ego and often the common kind of personality shown over the net but some are just a bit too over. Honestly speaking, I encounter this kind of thing way more often in gw2 which supposedly a casual mmorpg than compared to hardcore pvp mmorpgs where we drop items or golds on death.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Sarika.3756:

The sad part is that there is a specific set of forum posters who are most likely to derail a thread from something constructive into match-up. They often add jabs at whichever server they don’t particularly like, and that stirs the pot. Maybe it’s not just the threads that need a time out, but some of the posters most likely to derail things down the match-up rabbit hole?

I believe we should avoiding removing threads when at all possible. Instead, we should surgically remove posts when required. If we remove the derailing comments, and the off-topic, “You’re talking about A, but I’m going to turn this into a complaint about B” we can retain more of the good conversations that happen here. I will share that objective with the moderators and we’ll see if we can exercise as light a hand as possible.

The problem with this approach is there appears no consistency when such posts removed. I have had a post removed and been given reasons when in the exact same thread there posts by others that did exactly what i was infracted for yet allowed to remain.

I agree with the light handed approach and can even agree that certain posts should be removed if they are derailing a thread, but the application of those rules has to be consistent or the perception is it all done willy nilly and to no purpose.

The main reason most people are frustrated with Anet as far as wvw is concerned, is because each patch seems to make wvw less and less fun, and there’s no indication at all of any desire to even try to fix this. You really do need separate balance already for all 3 game modes. No more, “oh we want skills to be similar across all the modes so people arent confused.”

NO, that doesnt work anymore. That may have been fine 5 years ago, but that simply doesnt work anymore now. The game needs separate balance. There’s too many skills now that are simply ridiculously overpowered in wvw that make combat miserable and un-fun for all those involved, but nerfing them globally would ruin stuff in pve and vice versa.

The balance team needs to get over whatever hangup they have about wanting all 3 modes to be similar and just separate balance already. Combat is simply not fun anymore in wvw because of the terrible balance that seems to be balanced around raid bosses with billions of hp. Newsflash, players don’t have billions of hp like bosses do! Overpowered skills like epidemic and CoR on a 4 sec cooldown doing 10-20k damage is not acceptable here like it is in pve!

There are numerous threads listing all the overpowered and underpowered stuff in wvw that seems perfectly fine in pve, and I’m sure you’re aware at this point what skills are overperforming or underperforming but dont change them because it would ruin stuff in pve. But this isnt pve, it needs separate balance. Fighting a player that can have 10-30k hp is nowhere near the same as fighting a boss with millions to billions of hp.

Honestly myself, the WvW Guild i’m in plus people i know on my server, we all feel so unmotivated with the lack of info on whats coming to WvW. A lot of my friends have left because of this, would be nice to hear a few things instead of nothing, just my input.

More balance updates please (bring death to the condi meta) cheers.

Gaile Gray.6029:

WvW combat should happen in the game. It should not take place on the forums

Best answer

Gaile Gray.6029:

Lately, we’ve noticed a a growing number of posts like this:

• I hear [this world] is dead
• I don’t like the links between [this world] and [that world]
• Why does [XX world] get an better link than mine?
• I hear [this world] pays groups to join

If this keeps up, at some point we’ll start seeing:

• I don’t like the cut of [that world’s] gib
• Neener, neener, we won and you all suck
• Everybody on [that world] has stinky feet

If I’m joking with the last bit, I’m joking with a raised eyebrow, and you guys know I’m at least partially right about what we might expect if folks don’t use a little more reason before posting.

We’ve explained why we have a conservative stance on match-up and world-related threads here but to say it again: they usually don’t serve any purpose and they often turn nasty.

WvW is a competitive setting, and we don’t expect everyone to link arms and skip down the Yellow Brick Road together. On the other hand, we need to keep this sub-forum on an even keel. To that end, please think before posting, and consider if what you’re writing is of value, or if you’re mistakenly taking an in-game rivalry outside the game into a forum designed for more reasonable discussions.

Thanks.

When WvW “tiers” are respected again, if ever, by Anet and the manual glicko additions and subtractions stop, then this type of posting will be few and very far between compared to now.

Chaba.5410:

Sorry Gaile, it isn’t about in-game rivalries. It’s about frustration with Anet who has a more direct hand in match-making now through manual glicko adjustments and server linking choices without taking the time to understand the community trends going on with those teams.

I can say with absolute surety that your comment has been echoed across most servers for the past two plus years.

Anet doesn’t seem to want to know the WvW communities.

And as an aside and point that some are still making in many places, are EOTM players counted in any way towards WvW populations? If not, great. But if so, what a horrid skewing can be done by players, some of whom seldom if ever step foot in WvW.

WvW would be well served if two things were true:

1. EOTM has zero impact on WvW population ‘counts’

2. All servers were unlinked and allowed to be themselves again

Swamurabi.7890:

Taobella.6597:

i read enough WvW forums to the point i feel sorry that Gaile waste his time on reading most of this.

Honestly i feel like he one of the few dev really trying to put in effort to make game better. everyone just kitten talk him.

Gaile is female. Most of her posts are to the GW2 community in general. She likes frogs. Unfortunately, WvW does not have someone that talks to our community like Gaile does. She mains a ranger, one of a few classes that has been mostly unwanted in WvW.

She’s also not an actual developer, shes a community manager.

Gaile Gray.6029:

atheria.2837:

When WvW “tiers” are respected again, if ever, by Anet and the manual glicko additions and subtractions stop, then this type of posting will be few and very far between compared to now.

So, keeping to the topic of this thread, and not the side comments being expressed, you’re essentially saying, “We will post reasonably about other players and servers/worlds once the devs [do XX or YY]?”

The topic — again — is player-to-player conversations. With that in mind, whatever parameters you set for improved forum member behavior towards one another cannot be fulfilled by ArenaNet but only by forum members themselves.

He’s saying people would stop complaining as much (granted they will always complain), but a lot of the problem is Anet’s in ability to gauge feedback appropriately and adjust accordingly. Just ignoring the feedback is not a viable answer in any corporate environment.

Gaile is asking players to follow posting rules, to be more civil, use some maturity and to use constructive posting habits… no more.

Y’all can discuss a range of issues, that I’m sure the devs want to solve as well, but the toxicity in this section needs to stop. Nobody here will gain any favor, or speed up development, by being jerks to each other or the devs.

Edit- And stop giving Gaile a hard time, she doesn’t deserve it.

It seems like the way the forms are going is due to the players feeding on them self with out having any new info on what going on with wvw. That and it seems like worlds are manipulating there ranks in wvw by simply not showing up to play for weeks at a time because no one wants to be in t1 any more and its out right frustrating when it happens and you as one person cant do any thing about it. In a way the forms become a way to get back at them.

Well, I think a lot of us want to communicate effectively and see some updates in wvw that benefit the community/game mode. Ultimate issue is us vets and launch guys/gals have seen the game mode decline and friends leave. That leads to frustration and then we mouth off the forums. I’d like to think everyone has good intentions but dispirited players are going to vent here.

However, I get what Gaile is saying to just chill out and the end of the world attitude needs to stop. Statistically, it’s an mmo. It’s going to age and based on history, you lose guilds and players over time with any game. You can’t expect anet to wave a wand and magically bring back people and fix a game mode where players have a heavy population affect on (guilds transferring left and right, roamers trying new servers, players moving on, etc).

We’ve seen some responses lately from McKenna and now Gaile is opening up a kittenances like these are rare so we shouldn’t act like those girls on the Total Diva’s show on E!

Half the problem here is we have those threads that Gaile mentioned on a weekly basis, and players really need to stop with them. The my server is dying, why is my server locked, when are we getting unlocked, we need new tournament, why does our one server have to face 6 servers!, delete this map for this other map, look who ran away, look who tanked, look who bought out guilds.

All it would take is some research and frankly some common sense for these people to figure out stuff, instead of coming in here every week asking the same ridiculous thing over and over and get the same answers over and over, to the point where it turned into a running joke.

Now to the other part of Anet’s communications, they feel they are doing enough on that end, there’s nothing we can do to change that. I will point out something though, a year ago we got two devs in here who posted on quite a lot of issues, and it promoted quite a lot of positive discussions. One of them got shipped off to living story without a word, the other has cut back on posts in the last few months. A lot of us feel like things have just gone back to the way it was before the expansion.

The forums are here for us to discuss problems with the game, hopefully in a productive manner. Positive communication can only be maintained by having both sides involved, you cannot expect players to come in here to pure their hearts out on issues, hear nothing back and expect them to stay positive about the entire situation when they see their game mode continue to die in front of them for 4 years.

Finally, yes WvW is dying, when you take 24 servers and fold them into 12 to get the same population you had a year before, that’s dying. Deny that and hide your head in the sand if you want, but that’s not going to help fix anything, just lose more players.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

I am sorry if players feel that way. I see it in posts, sure. But I believe we’ve made it clear that the game mode has not been abandoned. That was confirmed quite recently when a dev made some comments about upcoming changes.

Just pointing out that match up threads added passion to the game mode. We played for years without any updates, so it’s not the lack of updates. The problem is the lack of meaning in WvW. Dev’s have devolved the mode into a few guilds farming kills by running face first into each other, that’s it. No one really plays to win, cares to win, or cares about the World they reside in. Especially since we have no control over our overall performance with world linking/re-linking.

The mode needed MOAR salt added to give it meaning again. Anet has stifled player behavior to the point it choked off any and all competitive meaning. Forcing us to hold hands and sing Kumbaya during a War Simulation, is sending a mixed message and didn’t/doesn’t work well.

When players stop caring, they stop playing. At least, that’s how I see it as a Veteran WvW player.

I think the wvw forum should be the only place to talk smack. Atleast if we could be salty on here and battle with our words it would have more variation than what we encouter in wvw.
Everyday small scale is condi bunker heaven.
Everyday large scale is “give me 30 seconds for this skill to activate” (seriously skill lag is still a thing after all these years come on man)

Although I suppose we should just appreciate someone in red commented on thier black sheep gamemode that odly has far greater potential, it’s a very peculiar business model.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Aury.1367:

Maybe thats because people feel like anet has canceled the whole WvW-support. I saw I got aggressive and salty the last months. No reason to act like this in PvE. But WvW is just depressing.

I am sorry if players feel that way. I see it in posts, sure. But I believe we’ve made it clear that the game mode has not been abandoned. That was confirmed quite recently when a dev made some comments about upcoming changes. Unfortunately, the thread devolved into dev bashing, and the OP asked that we remove it.

I feel that while things may not be perfect, they are not as dire as some forum members paint them. Continuously dwelling on the negative isn’t necessary or productive and it doesn’t represent the true nature of the game mode.

Thank you, Gaile.

I used to be pessimistic about the state of WvW, but I’ve reconsidered. WvW is not as dire as people on these forums say it is. Linking has actually saved WvW. It’s not perfect, but it has helped stabilized populations.

That being said, I will say that balance is the bigger problem. You guys made a huge mistake releasing HoT elite specs. They do way too damage. Condi meta is not fun to play against.

it is also stuff like calling stuff out for obvious reasons only for them to be ignored, then fixed for some other reason, a prime example is the ghost thief, people have complaied about this for months but it was only until someone soloed a raid boss with the build anet did something about it, and they aced very quick about it too. its things like this that gets people mad and flood the forums with not so pleasant stuff

Wow this thread derailed.

Completely agree with Gaile on this, there is a lot of things people can post and discuss, but in a more neutral or positive tone. The negative tone adds absolutely nothing of any use to any discussion. From what I’ve seen so far, the negative tone only serve to kill discussion before it can even start.

The whole “Developers doesn’t talk with us” is a scapegoat in this case, it has nothing to do with how we choose to communicate. It may be a reason why many are bitter etc, but they still choose to post in a negative manner or not. That, and it actively discourage Developers (or any other posters for that matter), from bothering to reply seriously, or at all.

i think we need answers, if Anet understood the amount of rumors going around about how WvW has turned into a money grab with the world linking they might actually understand that these posts are posted because people believe these rumors and would like some answers

these posts simply require a simple post EG why is this server not linked all anet has to do is say because blah blah server has a population off %105 rather than locking them and annoying the players.

it clear to see that Anet staff are getting annoyed by the volume of them being made so why not have a WvW Q&A ? or a FQA post at the top with replies to the most asked questions ? this would lower the amount of them being made,

The work on WvW is very slow, many times is on things we don’t want or aren’t priorities, while the devs are forced being silent by company policy. Many players are extremely exasperated, the rest has given up a long time ago. Just new players are fans, since they don’t know yet about the problems.

Silence creates toxicity. Always. There can’t be a working relationship when one side stays silent.

Still, the players shouldn’t allow toxicity. It’s better to give up and find something else to do. It’s clear that this isn’t the place where the devs can listen to you, even if they want to. There are other games in development, where the players are appreciated and not ignored or dismissed. This game has a vision, and will die as it is, except minor changes, don’t expect much anymore.

Gaile Gray.6029:

WvW is a competitive setting

I never feelt that A-net take wvw as a competitive game mode , or treat wvw as a competitive game mode ,so your post is really a surpirse for me.
Since developers consider wvw as a competitive game mode i am gonna ask the following question :
- We will have in near future skill balance for wvw ( only )
- Will the servers /tiers get more balance?

I loved this game WvW, I’ve had crazy mad fun with tons of friends playing WvW and GvG in the first 2 years of the existence of the game. I used to buy gems once or twice every months and only play WvW. However I’ve taken a break, for reasons that were discussed in other threads, mostly gameplay/balance/GvG-scene related.

When I do come back here on the forum it is to take some news and see how things are evolving. I usually find few news or none at all. So far in 2017 all we know is that you’ve been working on fixing scoring and rewards for a long time.

When I launch the game in nostalgia, I find that all my friends play on different servers, most of which are mostly empty except for a few hours a day at peak times. I can’t play with these remaining GW2 friends however because your server system is dividing the WvW community into many sub groups (that you call servers). Because of that I end up closing the game, because playing a MMO without your online friends defeats the purpose.

I can’t help but wonder why you haven’t implemented a megaserver system for WvW with guesting features, like some other MMO have done.

So to sum this up, it’s just sad that a game with so much potential would breaks that potential at the social level, both in and out of the game. Only a few important choices in development could drastically improve the atmosphere if they were implemented swiftly and with good communication.

Wishing you all the best with the WvW development that we must presume is underway for the new expansion,

I saw NLO’s in Gandara desert BL! Used stealth to cover their ships and then mounted lizard mounts and went toward south with superspeed.

To reiterate a point.
Ghost thief ignored in wvw and actually buffed it.
Ghost thief in pve killed a raid boss, naughty thief I smack you with my nerf bat.

It’s difficult to feel like you have our interests at heart given that alot of the issues have been present from the beginning, the lag, the futility of walls as defence (meteor shower says hi), over stacked servers, servers who don’t fight but night cap, scoring, scoring, what does score grant you? etc etc.

Having said that…..I love the game and can see nothing coming close to what we have but would it kill you guys to check in on us more than once a month.

1. People regularly complain that Anet staff never talk to them.
2. Anet staff leave posts asking people to be cool to each other.
3. People respond by giving Anet staff plenty of reasons to not talk to them, because, reasons
4. gg

Choppy.4183:

1. People regularly complain that Anet staff never talk to them.
2. Anet staff leave posts asking people to be cool to each other.
3. People respond by giving Anet staff plenty of reasons to not talk to them, because, reasons
4. gg

Yeah but Gaile’s not a dev but people seem to insist on giving her (or any red name that posts here) the full-on assault of complaints.

She can absolutely pass your issues along, and I’m pretty sure she does, but I’ll go back to an old analogy I used here three years ago: If every time you engage with someone they punch you in the face, how inclined are you to engage again?

People should definitely post opinions — but you have to realize there’s a lot of agendas behind some of those opinions here, simply because the WvW mode is competitive; and not necessarily proposed for the health of the game. (See: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Social-engineering-and-MMO-forums )

Gaile if you read this, your activity and responses in this thread are what people are asking for. Anet doesnt have to give away future developments but we want communication.

Because there is lack of communication and really a lack of major development other than siege fixes or manual glicko changes that have rendered empty maps.( I think out of the 3 times i raided this week there was 1 fight. ) We, as a playerbase have been getting told “things are coming” & “talk on the forums” yet we either get banned or havent seen the changes we’ve been asking for. The more frustrated and impatient people get the more complaints and toxicity you will see.

I understand Anet is a business and from a business perspective the PvE side of the game is probably what drives the profits thus resources are poured into development for that. I think It’s just really disappointing to see a gamemode with so much potential feel like it’s been left to rot for the last 2 years.

Gaile Gray.6029:

atheria.2837:

When WvW “tiers” are respected again, if ever, by Anet and the manual glicko additions and subtractions stop, then this type of posting will be few and very far between compared to now.

So, keeping to the topic of this thread, and not the side comments being expressed, you’re essentially saying, “We will post reasonably about other players and servers/worlds once the devs [do XX or YY]?”

The topic — again — is player-to-player conversations. With that in mind, whatever parameters you set for improved forum member behavior towards one another cannot be fulfilled by ArenaNet but only by forum members themselves.

Like I said, for many, the forum PvP is more fun than the PvP is in-game.

Until the game itself is worth the attention, and the community given reason to focus on the game, it’s just going to inherently leave people frustrated. And then when civil and heated arguments take place and people get banned for very poor reasons, they get even more frustrated. We saw it earlier in this thread. I ‘ve personally been targeted by a number of users explicitly trying to take my posts out of context to get me banned, with no action taken against them. And while at the end of the day this isn’t excusable behavior, it is caused because people are bored and devoid of reasons to care.

It’s not that people are just strictly upset and placing the blame entirely on ANet. That said, one need to ask why the community is now suddenly having major issues with this problem; a lot of it ultimately falls on the shoulders of ANet’s negligence. I’m not trying to excuse or justify any of this behavior, either. Just that this is the truth of the perspective of the players, and that nothing will really change until things do to give people a reason to care and nurture the community again.

Choppy.4183:

1. People regularly complain that Anet staff never talk to them.
2. Anet staff leave posts asking people to be cool to each other.
3. People respond by giving Anet staff plenty of reasons to not talk to them, because, reasons
4. gg

It legitimately makes me sad to know that I’m in the minority when I say I play this game to relax and have fun. Seems like far more people have so little to worry about in their daily lives that they just look for reasons to be upset and GW2 WvW is a perfect candidate.

Not liking how the devs handle the game is one thing but the sheer amount of entitlement and berating that happens any time a dev appears in a WvW post makes me really disappointed in this community.

DeceiverX.8361:

Gaile Gray.6029:

atheria.2837:

(…)

(…)

(…)
it is caused because people are bored and devoid of reasons to care.

True, still i think its how WvW has been designed to work and how it formatted alot fo players, like a brainwash? the game mode itself (WvW/EOTM) creates this kind of mentality and behaviors, and the recent changes did not help as well, wich is what Anet staff are forgetting (IMO) or at least might have that part not in check.

@Gaile, I hate matchup threads myself, i know how useless the game mode is at the end of the day(week), and the bickering of server vs server drama on the forum doesn’t help anyone, i’m not defending those who do the server drama topics nither acusing the dev’s , but ill try to explain my point of view if i may, and try still to be on topic….

…. by nature of this game , on WvW 10 vs 1 still believe that they are in a competitive stetting, and came to the forum boasting how amazing those 10 were, this is human nature and enforced by how the game is ment to be played, on the other side comes the guy complaining that he is in the server that cant beat the numbers, and those 10 players come and jump and start to bash the opposite player and server on same thread.

WvW is not a competitive setting, theress ppt, pvp just happens but could be ignored like EOTM, if players wanted, all of us WvW players were in settings where we could farm SMC by turns w/o a single pvp action between groups for quite some time.
WvW maps could and are farmed where players are not defending mostly, there is alot of non competitive situations, but that is another topic……

What im trying to say is, that there are a few “hidden/maskered” flaws that promotes this behaviors, people will continue to complain about match-ups that will end in quarrels on the forum, while i dont see nor understand why actions arent promoted that might fix this behaviors, it always ends the other way arround.

Edit: sorry if my english reads in a very confusing way, rusty engrish is rusty

But…everybody on [that world] really does have stinky feet! I’ve smelled them! (don’t ask)

Gaile, I know that this thread was completely derailed, and I agree with your points that you originally raised, but I hope you can see why this thread was derailed — you’ve got that shiny ANet logo next to your name and those who love WvW are begging for attention from ANet.

While I’ve just derailed your thread even further, I hope that this craving from attention from ANet doesn’t go unnoticed by community staff such as yourself, or developers.

Napo.1230:

To reiterate a point.
Ghost thief ignored in wvw and actually buffed it.
Ghost thief in pve killed a raid boss, naughty thief I smack you with my nerf bat.

It’s difficult to feel like you have our interests at heart given that alot of the issues have been present from the beginning, the lag, the futility of walls as defence (meteor shower says hi), over stacked servers, servers who don’t fight but night cap, scoring, scoring, what does score grant you? etc etc.

Having said that…..I love the game and can see nothing coming close to what we have but would it kill you guys to check in on us more than once a month.

This is a good point, ghost thief was ruining the entire roaming scene and game mode for most. A lot of complaints on forums but a pve player solo’d a raid boss and instantly the build got nerfed.

I’m trying to be respectful but it is an example that the game mode is labeled as competitive, but you see this unfair game play go on for a very long time in wvw, but the second it affects pve we have action.

Hopefully this thread is a turning point for the devs to talk to us. I truly hope so.

I would say part of the reason forum etiquette has taken a turn for the worse is the return of many to this forum who left when matchup threads were banned. The third party hosted matchup threads lacked any sort of moderation so bad behaviour was encouraged and now that that forum is near the end of its slow death, the people who find discord too much to keep up with are back here. All that time without rules will make it hard for those players to find that fine line of what is acceptable again.

Forums naturally breed conflict no matter how mature the theme is or no matter how old the people are posting. This forum for a long time benefited from having much of those conflict loving people voice their thoughts elsewhere. Unfortunately that time has ended and now the moderators are dealing with what is normal in an mmo community. Making scolding posts only fuel those sorts of people, whereas the best bet is to ban those who won’t stop and keep over moderation in check. It’s a tough job to balance it all, but in the end that’s the job of a community manager and their team of moderators.

neven.3785:

This forum for a long time benefited from having much of those conflict loving people voice their thoughts elsewhere. Unfortunately that time has ended and now the moderators are dealing with what is normal in an mmo community.

And yet those locked threads were not written by those people who “voice their thoughts elsewhere”. What moderators are dealing with is nothing different from what they’ve always dealt with when a player that doesn’t follow current events logs in, finds it not fun, and then comes here to make a match-up thread.

Wow. This thread is a thing.

What exactly defines a “PvF player”? I see plenty of salt and criticism thrown every which way from both people who just strictly use this forum and people who “voice their thoughts elsewhere”.

I do agree that this place could use a little more moderation in general and the administration could due to be a little more active in keeping an eye & contributing to this place. Lack okittennowledgement is part of the reason some players feel as frustrated as they do.

~ Kovu

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Not liking how the devs handle the game is one thing but the sheer amount of entitlement and berating that happens any time a dev appears in a WvW post makes me really disappointed in this community.

What entitlement? To actual communication? Thats hardly unreasonable when the general perception is that anet is fiddling while WvW burns.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Our policy is not to give a future-looking accounting of works in progress but to analzye, gather input from players (through a variety of means including frequent reading of the forums), develop, and release.

And as we’ve said You’re talking to the wrong players! We already know that EOTM was tested by mostly PvE players and streamers and their guilds! And even with DBL you got bad feedback from players, but you ignored it!

You need real information from a real WvW guild! I’ve sent you a PM a couple weeks ago, so it’s up to you to decide to read it and act upon it!

Just remind you all this is only a game and it is post to be fun.

These forums have rules and everyone that signed has signed up to play the has also agreed to obey the forum rules too.

The rules are there for a reason so if you cannot obey the forum rules that are outlined then do not post anything at all.

I have got tired seeing as Gaile Gray said in the beginning

Gaile Gray.6029:

Lately, we’ve noticed a a growing number of posts like this:

• I hear [this world] is dead
• I don’t like the links between [this world] and [that world]
• Why does [XX world] get an better link than mine?
• I hear [this world] pays groups to join

Many of you think it is maybe simple and easy for ArenaNet to flip over backwards for everyone.

Just to let you all it is not easy because I have a real job that I work at in the information technology field and I do the similar work as ArenaNet does in a way. I help a company support thousands of customers of customers around the world every day as well help as a network technician and web developer.

The company I work for use to have forum but they have close it down because of similar posts were being posted and things got out of hand. At first the company started banning those being a problem from posting on the forums and they those were banned would create a new account and keep doing it so the company deleted the forums all together.

So, from first hand experience I know how the staff at ArenaNet feels. So, before you post something put yourself in the ArenaNet staff shoes and ask yourself is this according to the forums rules or not?

The same way as forums needs to be applied inside the game too. If you cannot respect others including ArenaNet staff by saying nice things and being helpful to others including ArenaNet staff then do not play the game. This game is meant to be fun for everyone not just for a few people.

Sorry for how feel but you need look at things differently and help ArenaNet make the game better in a better way. As well as to help others and being nice others in the game. This is called real “Team Work” working together for a common goal.

pointaction.4639:

Just remind you all this is only a game and it is post to be fun.

These forums have rules and everyone that signed has signed up to play the has also agreed to obey the forum rules too.

The rules are there for a reason so if you cannot obey the forum rules that are outlined then do not post anything at all.

I have got tired seeing as Gaile Gray said in the beginning

Gaile Gray.6029:

Lately, we’ve noticed a a growing number of posts like this:

• I hear [this world] is dead
• I don’t like the links between [this world] and [that world]
• Why does [XX world] get an better link than mine?
• I hear [this world] pays groups to join

Many of you think it is maybe simple and easy for ArenaNet to flip over backwards for everyone.

Just to let you all it is not easy because I have a real job that I work at in the information technology field and I do the similar work as ArenaNet does in a way. I help a company support thousands of customers of customers around the world every day as well help as a network technician and web developer.

The company I work for use to have forum but they have close it down because of similar posts were being posted and things got out of hand. At first the company started banning those being a problem from posting on the forums and they those were banned would create a new account and keep doing it so the company deleted the forums all together.

So, from first hand experience I know how the staff at ArenaNet feels. So, before you post something put yourself in the ArenaNet staff shoes and ask yourself is this according to the forums rules or not?

The same way as forums needs to be applied inside the game too. If you cannot respect others including ArenaNet staff by saying nice things and being helpful to others including ArenaNet staff then do not play the game. This is meant to be fun for everyone not just for a few people.

Sorry for how feel but you need look at things differently and help ArenaNet make the game better in a better way. As well as to help others and being nice others in the game. This is called real “Team Work” working together for a common goal.

As I said earlier, the WvW community is extremely fragmented because the amount of servers is completely disproportional to the amount of players in the game.

If you want people to be happy about WvW then, before balance, before rewards, before scoring, we need to strengthen the community by:
(1) Merging all the servers in 3 alliances so that anyone can rebuild their WvW friends community. There is no reason important enough to justify why you shouldn’t be able to play with your friends. Not being able to play with our friends is a huge problem in this game, I would say it is the biggest barrier to an happy community.
(2) Add a guild latter with detailed statistics to give a reason for the community to be competitive. A true reward is knowing that you’ve improved your skill versus others as a guild group and see your contribution as a player.

Loot rewards and skill balance are the cherry on the top, but if the ice-cream is melted that cherry won’t hold. And the community right now is like melted ice cream.

Many of the posts in this thread are good. They don’t really have much in the way of an explanation for why folks can’t stick within the guidelines of the forum. I do think that Anet forgets sometimes we have played next to each other for years. Sometimes on the same server or as clever opponents. That brings out the competitive nature of PVP minded individuals and creates an atmosphere that some would deem as toxic.

Having played some different games lately, this forum is waaaaay better than most of what I see. At least here topics are reasonable with a ton of feedback from the community. Most of us just want competitive matchups. But there are also players that don’t want that. Gamers are notorious for finding the quickest and easiest way to win. I remember a time when running condi builds would have been laughable across the community.

I agree though that the posts that Gaile is referring to aren’t going to stop. I just happen to see her posts here as a means of Anet giving us fair warning before they really start cracking down on the toxicity.

Miss Gailey Grey most of the wvw community is frustrated. We don’t have much communication with the wvw anet employees. We beg and we plead for communication but 90% we are ignored. So the hurt, the neglect the bitterness comes out in the messages when we vent. If the wvw had a specific spokes person that gave us weekly updates the forums would probably be a nicer place. They don’t have to tell us exactly what they are doing. Instead they can toss possible ideas around with the community so the get a feel of what’s going on and the wvw community will have a voice. Random polls are not enough we need real communication.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, "We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along.

Right. So no talk of future developments. What about priorities and values? How do you see WvW as a game mode and where would you want it to be? What are its best features and what do you feel needs improvement?

Is it all just “management” to you?

Zenith.6403:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mike O’Brien explained how we choose to communicate in this forum post a few years ago. What he said was, "We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along.

Right. So no talk of future developments. What about priorities and values? How do you see WvW as a game mode and where would you want it to be? What are its best features and what do you feel needs improvement?

Is it all just “management” to you?

It’s also a very bad marketing strategy (for reference compare it with Blizzard’s daily communication and how much of an interest it creates on their forum and reddit), but I understand where they come from in the sense that they made the mistake of spoiling most of HoT before releasing it.

I think that a middle ground could be found, somewhere in the middle between,n “We’ve been working on scoring changes for the last 6 months. Ok? Bye.” and “Hello folks how is it going today?”

Obviously it takes much organization to communicate on an almost daily basis, but the balance changes would be a great place to start since they are so much needed.