Guild Wars 2

@Tyler Bearce.3427: here are some ideas…..

Want to fix gw2 in that aspect???

-> balance teams under 8 man like they were on gw1

Balance was far better there, and more know how/teamplay was needed, even TA worked fine, funny cause for some time 4 ele’s/mes (echo ,evoke lighting, ) party were the meta there to….so spvp would lead almost to the same…

-with a decent gvg like we had on gw1 players will use less the WvW for guild pseudo GVG, that isnt more than a splash spam all waterfiels and aoe, wins who has more watterfields and AOE damage ouput, player call that gvg but it isnt true gvg…

-Bring back 8vs8 GvG fight like we had on gw1 + ladder, so guilds have something to fight for with a guild ladder (this was REAL STRONG POINT, GW HAD).

-then on WvW add option to Guild commander tag be the guild symbol, even if it is a GH improvement.

When there is no other option, people tend to follow any tag regardless of color. And that’s where the issue starts.

Personally, I see it as not disappointing other people. I mean imagine some pug hops along and then realizes this is a group that won’t slow down to wait them or flip the same towers via a train or something. Then they get picked off and have to go do something else. Or worse yet, you stumble upon a group doing guild missions and then wonder why WvW is so boring. This is why I tell people to turn off the tag when we’re doing guild missions in WvW because a lot of them aren’t here to well, really WvW. And that’s just feeding misleading info over to other people.

This isn’t even about elitism or some crap, it’s about the goals being different. And look at this on the flip side. If a guild does remain visible then they should really turn it off if they really don’t want to run with other people.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

That’s a great principle, but it makes the exclusion more obvious as it stands, since you can close the group.

Also, haven’t you guys been trying to break up the zerg?

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Tspatula.9086:

There is a dedicated PvF forum, this is not the place. It’s pretty obvious you know little about actual WvW, and very clear that you know nothing about what “they” intend. Posting this kind of comment really doesn’t make you relevant to the discussion nor the issues at hand.

They posted in the thread already lol no need to guess what they intend. Way to bring nothing to the discussion…. But good PvF ty.

Hexalot.8194:

They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Yep it’s supposed to be an entire server having fun playing together. They are trying to cater to these guilds still. They give them arena’s and even adjust the costs after guilds asked them to.. Give them a big ring in the obsidian sanctum.. but nothing seems good enough. All they get for their efforts is boycotts and more anti social behavior.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the opposite. Adding this feature IS HEALTHY for WvW. I’ll explain: WvW depends on organized guilds playing. When you guys consistently neglect this game mode, and what people have been asking for, it drives organized WvW guilds and players away. This is unhealthy. Having more organized WvW guilds and players helps bring new players into the fold. We show them the ropes, teach them about builds, how to run in a group, bring them into TS and show them our community websites. Heck, maybe they might even want to join a WvW guild! Those things won’t happen when you keep driving players away.

Hexalot.8194:

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

Those servers will die I know of 2 servers that its essentially what happened to them. By necessity servers have to have some commanders running public

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Here’s the major flaw in your logic, though. Commanders don’t tag up and pick up their guild along the way. They start off with the majority of their guild already gathered before they even start, and pick up pugs along the way. If they didn’t want to run a public raid, they wouldn’t. But since the commander in your example ran a public raid first, he obviously chose to run that public raid. He didn’t do it as a matter of necessity to gather his guild. He ran a public raid before his guild raid started. Having a private tag wouldn’t have changed that, whatsoever. All a private tag would have done would have made the private raid after the public raid a bit less of a hassle. It would not have prevented the public raid.

See? This is the problem with WvW. The complete 180 degrees of difference between what Anet thinks, and what actually happens. It’s not that they don’t have a clue. It’s that they see the reality, and then go in the exact opposite direction of it. It’s self sabotage. From the end result, all the way down to the mental process that got them to that end result, it’s always the exact opposite. Every. Single. Time. It was disturbing to watch this phenomenon one or two years ago. It’s just outright pathetic and embarrassing to watch it still going on. And right now, they’re getting exactly what they deserve for it, their game mode is collapsing on their heads.

morrolan.9608:

Hexalot.8194:

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

Those servers will die I know of 2 servers that its essentially what happened to them. By necessity servers have to have some commanders running public

Exactly. But sadly so many “guildies” posting here seem to come across with the attitude that well… “that’s someone elses problem”.

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

I fail to see how open raids wouldn’t have become part of WvWvW’s cultural fabric with all the widespread patriotism in the early days, some guilds sprung up around exactly that! There were random players buying tags “for the server!” and those who would follow. Furthermore, there are original plans and ideals and then there is reality. It’s one thing if the game didn’t start out with private tags, which is fine but closed raids are and have been a reality and Anet chose stay out of touch and not to adapt for years, in an MMO of all things. Anet is against a lot of things, doesn’t make it smart but hey, enjoy that new map and reset day that they are “dead set” on keeping lol

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Here’s the major flaw in your logic, though. Commanders don’t tag up and pick up their guild along the way. They start off with the majority of their guild already gathered before they even start, and pick up pugs along the way. If they didn’t want to run a public raid, they wouldn’t. But since the commander in your example ran a public raid first, he obviously chose to run that public raid. He didn’t do it as a matter of necessity to gather his guild. He ran a public raid before his guild raid started. Having a private tag wouldn’t have changed that, whatsoever. All a private tag would have done would have made the private raid after the public raid a bit less of a hassle. It would not have prevented the public raid.

See? This is the problem with WvW. The complete 180 degrees of difference between what Anet thinks, and what actually happens. It’s not that they don’t have a clue. It’s that they see the reality, and then go in the exact opposite direction of it. It’s self sabotage. From the end result, all the way down to the mental process that got them to that end result, it’s always the exact opposite. Every. Single. Time. It was disturbing to watch this phenomenon one or two years ago. It’s just outright pathetic and embarrassing to watch it still going on. And right now, they’re getting exactly what they deserve for it, their game mode is collapsing on their heads.

But your own logic falls down due to the reality of human nature, which is that of taking the easiest path. Guilds have already stated that targeting the commander when coordinating runs is a lot more of a hassle than having a permanent tag on. So I suspect many of them run the tag anyway and just tolerate pugs for the time being while whining about people not being in TS and so on.

Now imagine giving those same comanders… with their guild already gathered around them… the ability to run private tag from the start. You honestly believe that the majority, outside of a few die hard pugmanders, won’t choose “option A” ?

Then WvW truly becomes GvG. A wet dream for some sure, but a nightmare for everyone else.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

That seems kind of silly. Tagless commanders happen even without private commander tags. To make matters worse, by not having that them, you’re setting up a toxic environment. Commanders that are trying to run a private raid to have more even fights are having to yell at people in say chat and whispers asking them to go to the other tag. Besides that though, this is a tool that could be extremely beneficial to more than just WvW commanders. Think of havoc groups and how amazing that could be to them or simply guild’s doing missions or just little unique activities.

Hexalot.8194:

morrolan.9608:

Hexalot.8194:

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

Those servers will die I know of 2 servers that its essentially what happened to them. By necessity servers have to have some commanders running public

Exactly. But sadly so many “guildies” posting here seem to come across with the attitude that well… “that’s someone elses problem”.

What guilds are you all in? What servers do you play on? Most guilds need to recruit players, the primary way to do so is running open raids. Every server I have played on have pugmanders on most maps or at least EBG and a BL. The idea that closed raiding guilds make up the entire population in WvW is absurd.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

That seems kind of silly. Tagless commanders happen even without private commander tags. To make matters worse, by not having that them, you’re setting up a toxic environment. Commanders that are trying to run a private raid to have more even fights are having to yell at people in say chat and whispers asking them to go to the other tag. Besides that though, this is a tool that could be extremely beneficial to more than just WvW commanders. Think of havoc groups and how amazing that could be to them or simply guild’s doing missions or just little unique activities.

This too. 15 characters.

Tspatula.9086:

Hexalot.8194:

morrolan.9608:

Hexalot.8194:

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

Those servers will die I know of 2 servers that its essentially what happened to them. By necessity servers have to have some commanders running public

Exactly. But sadly so many “guildies” posting here seem to come across with the attitude that well… “that’s someone elses problem”.

What guilds are you all in? What servers do you play on? Most guilds need to recruit players, the primary way to do so is running open raids. Every server I have played on have pugmanders on most maps or at least EBG and a BL. The idea that closed raiding guilds make up the entire population in WvW is absurd.

Who said closed raids currently make up the entirety of WvW ?

Have you been following this thread at all ?

You can recruit well enough running open raids once or twice a week and closed the rest (which is virtually guaranteed if private tags were allowed). I think its naive to believe you would still see as many commander tags on the map for pugs to follow if private tags are the norm.

displayname.8315:

Hexalot.8194:

They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Yep it’s supposed to be an entire server having fun playing together. They are trying to cater to these guilds still. They give them arena’s and even adjust the costs after guilds asked them to.. Give them a big ring in the obsidian sanctum.. but nothing seems good enough. All they get for their efforts is boycotts and more anti social behavior.

There are so many type of players in this game mode and you seem to be thinking every WvW guild only wants to have death match type of fights in some arena. Good to know what you really think about the wvw guilds on your server.

Hexalot.8194:

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Here’s the major flaw in your logic, though. Commanders don’t tag up and pick up their guild along the way. They start off with the majority of their guild already gathered before they even start, and pick up pugs along the way. If they didn’t want to run a public raid, they wouldn’t. But since the commander in your example ran a public raid first, he obviously chose to run that public raid. He didn’t do it as a matter of necessity to gather his guild. He ran a public raid before his guild raid started. Having a private tag wouldn’t have changed that, whatsoever. All a private tag would have done would have made the private raid after the public raid a bit less of a hassle. It would not have prevented the public raid.

See? This is the problem with WvW. The complete 180 degrees of difference between what Anet thinks, and what actually happens. It’s not that they don’t have a clue. It’s that they see the reality, and then go in the exact opposite direction of it. It’s self sabotage. From the end result, all the way down to the mental process that got them to that end result, it’s always the exact opposite. Every. Single. Time. It was disturbing to watch this phenomenon one or two years ago. It’s just outright pathetic and embarrassing to watch it still going on. And right now, they’re getting exactly what they deserve for it, their game mode is collapsing on their heads.

But your own logic falls down due to the reality of human nature, which is that of taking the easiest path. Guilds have already stated that targeting the commander when coordinating runs is a lot more of a hassle than having a permanent tag on. So I suspect many of them run the tag anyway and just tolerate pugs for the time being while whining about people not being in TS and so on.

Now imagine giving those same comanders… with their guild already gathered around them… the ability to run private tag from the start. You honestly believe that the majority, outside of a few die hard pugmanders, won’t choose “option A” ?

Then WvW truly becomes GvG. A wet dream for some sure, but a nightmare for everyone else.

Here’s the problem, though. You’re theory crafting, based on what you think and feel. I’m telling you what’s actually happening. You act as though it’s only GvG guild members who are for this. I’m a pure pugmander. You think that we’re leaving the game because of guilds running private raids. I’m telling you we’re leaving the game because of the horrible design decisions Anet’s made since launch.

Stop spouting theories and opinions, and start listening to actual facts. Facts. That can easily be confirmed just by going in and taking a look around. Not opinions, which are based purely in “what if” scenarios. Countless guilds run privately, and countless guilds run publicly. They running public because they want to, not because of anything to do with the tags. That’s laughable, at best. They’re running privately, quite often. Not having a tag doesn’t change that. Having a private tag would just make it less of a hassle, but they’re NOT going to stop running privately if they don’t get a tag. They’ll just continue to run using CTRL + T, until they get fed up and leave the game with everyone else.

You can claim to know “human nature” all you want, but when it doesn’t match up to what people are actually doing, your claim doesn’t mean squat. Look at reality, not some BS pop psychology. The reality is simple to verify. All you need to do is actually talk to any commander and they’ll be glad to tell you that you’re wrong.

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Here’s the major flaw in your logic, though. Commanders don’t tag up and pick up their guild along the way. They start off with the majority of their guild already gathered before they even start, and pick up pugs along the way. If they didn’t want to run a public raid, they wouldn’t. But since the commander in your example ran a public raid first, he obviously chose to run that public raid. He didn’t do it as a matter of necessity to gather his guild. He ran a public raid before his guild raid started. Having a private tag wouldn’t have changed that, whatsoever. All a private tag would have done would have made the private raid after the public raid a bit less of a hassle. It would not have prevented the public raid.

See? This is the problem with WvW. The complete 180 degrees of difference between what Anet thinks, and what actually happens. It’s not that they don’t have a clue. It’s that they see the reality, and then go in the exact opposite direction of it. It’s self sabotage. From the end result, all the way down to the mental process that got them to that end result, it’s always the exact opposite. Every. Single. Time. It was disturbing to watch this phenomenon one or two years ago. It’s just outright pathetic and embarrassing to watch it still going on. And right now, they’re getting exactly what they deserve for it, their game mode is collapsing on their heads.

But your own logic falls down due to the reality of human nature, which is that of taking the easiest path. Guilds have already stated that targeting the commander when coordinating runs is a lot more of a hassle than having a permanent tag on. So I suspect many of them run the tag anyway and just tolerate pugs for the time being while whining about people not being in TS and so on.

Now imagine giving those same comanders… with their guild already gathered around them… the ability to run private tag from the start. You honestly believe that the majority, outside of a few die hard pugmanders, won’t choose “option A” ?

Then WvW truly becomes GvG. A wet dream for some sure, but a nightmare for everyone else.

Here’s the problem, though. You’re theory crafting, based on what you think and feel. I’m telling you what’s actually happening. You act as though it’s only GvG guild members who are for this. I’m a pure pugmander. You think that we’re leaving the game because of guilds running private raids. I’m telling you we’re leaving the game because of the horrible design decisions Anet’s made since launch.

Stop spouting theories and opinions, and start listening to actual facts. Facts. That can easily be confirmed just by going in and taking a look around. Not opinions, which are based purely in “what if” scenarios. Countless guilds run privately, and countless guilds run publicly. They running public because they want to, not because of anything to do with the tags. That’s laughable, at best. They’re running privately, quite often. Not having a tag doesn’t change that. Having a private tag would just make it less of a hassle, but they’re NOT going to stop running privately if they don’t get a tag. They’ll just continue to run using CTRL + T, until they get fed up and leave the game with everyone else.

You can claim to know “human nature” all you want, but when it doesn’t match up to what people are actually doing, your claim doesn’t mean squat. Look at reality, not some BS pop psychology. The reality is simple to verify. All you need to do is actually talk to any commander and they’ll be glad to tell you that you’re wrong.

Rather than keep going on and on in a circular argument, let me summarize for you. I believe that introducing private tags is unhealthy for the game at the moment (it would have made more sense to do it back in the day when servers were full of people) as it makes it too easy to exclude pugs and other casuals who don’t have the time or ability to dedicate themselves to a decent WvW guild. This is particularly so with WvW so sparsely populated right now. ANET apparently believes the same thing.

YES we all know that plenty of guilds already run private raids, so people say… what’s the difference ?

The difference is that ANET fears that by making it even easier than before to run private raids (no hassles with dealing with target icon, etc) the temptation will be there to run with less and less public tags… thus again excluding a large segment of the WvW population. This fear is justified in my opinion.

Finally, you and others ask why doesn’t ANET just speak to the commanders on the ground and get their opinion in how private tags can work and even improve the game !

Well thats certainly a good idea and Anet should do that. But at the same time the Devs also have to bear in mind that people say one thing when they truly believe and are sincere in their heart that a particular change will improve their lives and the lives of those around them. But time and time again we have seen when that “change” gets implemented, how long it takes before people start abusing it. How long before commanders who were otherwise dedicated pugmanders start to get tired of the stress involved with trying to herd a bunch of pugs, half of whom refuse to get into TS, and succumb to the temptation of running more and more dedicated private guild raids ?

You can call it theory crafting all you want but that’s the way the world works. You have to weigh the hypothetical first before you jump head first into the unknown.

Anyway I’m done. Have good night dude. :-)

briggah.7910:

How many new stat PvE gear got added? A Bunch
How many new PvP amulets got added? A Bunch
How many new stat WvW gear from badge vendors got added? Zero

Excluding a game mode is better? Forcing us out of wvw to get things..

Yes, yes! There should be a merchant at spawn that sells HoT items for badges, etc. for the players that purchased HoT.

Edit: never going to happen, but would be nice. Yeah yeah I know, if you want that stuff you have to go grind that area and hoard it. I didn’t even know dry top existed until a couple months ago O.o ; was trying to figure out where nomad gear comes from. gg.
Edit2: sorry for chasing a rabbit, couldn’t resist that one

Hexalot.8194:

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

Phantom.8130:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

@ Hexalot

This topic is a request for private tags, which you are against because open raids are drying up. You’d deny people organizational tools for activities that they will do anyway. It just seems so bitter and mean spirited lawl.

Well… when I first posted in this thread, I did state that I wouldn’t have objected to private tags in the early days when the Servers were still full. But now WvW is a dying mode (and yes ANET is fully to blame here) and I fully understand and agree with ANET taking whatever measures they can to stop the ship from sinking further. And like it or not, a commander tag on the maps is the one thing that will stop Pugs from giving up completely. Furthermore I honestly don’t see the big deal about not tagging up when you want to run private. Yes I understand it’s a QoL thing in not having to “control t” all the time, but at this point I can’t agree with helping send WvW to the bottom over “quality of life”.

I have been in zergs where a Guild commander running tag suddenly takes it down while telling everyone they are now running a private raid thus whoever is not a member, “thanks for following and good bye”. In a case like that, all us pugs had no problem going our merry way.

I don’t get your logic. The tag in your story chose to have an open raid then later switched to private and you had no issue with that. It wouldn’t be any different than now, except that when that commander closed his raid, he’d have a tag that select people can see and “ctrl+t” could serve other purposes, it takes nothing from you. A private tag isn’t going to magically change what people want out of their play time some like pugmanding.

Anet giving the middle finger to guild folks is just another reason why commander tags will continue to disappear as pugmanders tend to have their guild behind them (that’s how some got started and thats why some still play). All this is quite entertaining though, given that pug and guild groups are equally part of the WvWvW experience and have always been. Just gonna sit here, sip this wine and bask in the glow of the flames from this wreck of a game mode.

You want to know why ANET is so dead set against allowing people to run private tags ?

Because in “my story” ANET is deathly afraid that the commander would never have bothered to run a public tag in the first place if they already had the majority of their guild following the tag already. They are afraid that WvW will turn into Maps where you have giant Guild blobs running around unseen by the lowly pugs whose only wish is to enjoy part of what makes wvw so much fun.

So it’s basically a case of them… right or wrong… discouraging anti-social behavior on the part of guilds. The Dev reply in this thread practically screams what I just said.

Here’s the major flaw in your logic, though. Commanders don’t tag up and pick up their guild along the way. They start off with the majority of their guild already gathered before they even start, and pick up pugs along the way. If they didn’t want to run a public raid, they wouldn’t. But since the commander in your example ran a public raid first, he obviously chose to run that public raid. He didn’t do it as a matter of necessity to gather his guild. He ran a public raid before his guild raid started. Having a private tag wouldn’t have changed that, whatsoever. All a private tag would have done would have made the private raid after the public raid a bit less of a hassle. It would not have prevented the public raid.

See? This is the problem with WvW. The complete 180 degrees of difference between what Anet thinks, and what actually happens. It’s not that they don’t have a clue. It’s that they see the reality, and then go in the exact opposite direction of it. It’s self sabotage. From the end result, all the way down to the mental process that got them to that end result, it’s always the exact opposite. Every. Single. Time. It was disturbing to watch this phenomenon one or two years ago. It’s just outright pathetic and embarrassing to watch it still going on. And right now, they’re getting exactly what they deserve for it, their game mode is collapsing on their heads.

But your own logic falls down due to the reality of human nature, which is that of taking the easiest path. Guilds have already stated that targeting the commander when coordinating runs is a lot more of a hassle than having a permanent tag on. So I suspect many of them run the tag anyway and just tolerate pugs for the time being while whining about people not being in TS and so on.

Now imagine giving those same comanders… with their guild already gathered around them… the ability to run private tag from the start. You honestly believe that the majority, outside of a few die hard pugmanders, won’t choose “option A” ?

Then WvW truly becomes GvG. A wet dream for some sure, but a nightmare for everyone else.

Here’s the problem, though. You’re theory crafting, based on what you think and feel. I’m telling you what’s actually happening. You act as though it’s only GvG guild members who are for this. I’m a pure pugmander. You think that we’re leaving the game because of guilds running private raids. I’m telling you we’re leaving the game because of the horrible design decisions Anet’s made since launch.

Stop spouting theories and opinions, and start listening to actual facts. Facts. That can easily be confirmed just by going in and taking a look around. Not opinions, which are based purely in “what if” scenarios. Countless guilds run privately, and countless guilds run publicly. They running public because they want to, not because of anything to do with the tags. That’s laughable, at best. They’re running privately, quite often. Not having a tag doesn’t change that. Having a private tag would just make it less of a hassle, but they’re NOT going to stop running privately if they don’t get a tag. They’ll just continue to run using CTRL + T, until they get fed up and leave the game with everyone else.

You can claim to know “human nature” all you want, but when it doesn’t match up to what people are actually doing, your claim doesn’t mean squat. Look at reality, not some BS pop psychology. The reality is simple to verify. All you need to do is actually talk to any commander and they’ll be glad to tell you that you’re wrong.

Rather than keep going on and on in a circular argument, let me summarize for you. I believe that introducing private tags is unhealthy for the game at the moment (it would have made more sense to do it back in the day when servers were full of people) as it makes it too easy to exclude pugs and other casuals who don’t have the time or ability to dedicate themselves to a decent WvW guild. This is particularly so with WvW so sparsely populated right now. ANET apparently believes the same thing.

YES we all know that plenty of guilds already run private raids, so people say… what’s the difference ?

The difference is that ANET fears that by making it even easier than before to run private raids (no hassles with dealing with target icon, etc) the temptation will be there to run with less and less public tags… thus again excluding a large segment of the WvW population. This fear is justified in my opinion.

Finally, you and others ask why doesn’t ANET just speak to the commanders on the ground and get their opinion in how private tags can work and even improve the game !

Well thats certainly a good idea and Anet should do that. But at the same time the Devs also have to bear in mind that people say one thing when they truly believe and are sincere in their heart that a particular change will improve their lives and the lives of those around them. But time and time again we have seen when that “change” gets implemented, how long it takes before people start abusing it. How long before commanders who were otherwise dedicated pugmanders start to get tired of the stress involved with trying to herd a bunch of pugs, half of whom refuse to get into TS, and succumb to the temptation of running more and more dedicated private guild raids ?

You can call it theory crafting all you want but that’s the way the world works. You have to weigh the hypothetical first before you jump head first into the unknown.

Anyway I’m done. Have good night dude. :-)

I’ll summarize for you. If people didn’t want to run public groups, they wouldn’t. If they wanted to run 100% private groups, they would. Tags have zero bearing on that. Commanders don’t say “Well, I would only run private groups, if private tags were available” They talk to the other commanders on the server, and say “Ok, I’ll lead a public group today, you lead one tomorrow.” There isn’t a commander in the game that isn’t aware of CTRL + T.

Basing decisions on flawed logic and imaginary hypotheticals, while ignoring what’s actually going on already isn’t the way the world works. It’s the way catastrophic failures happen. Judging by the state of the game, Anet needs to stop basing their decisions on flawed logic and imaginary hypotheticals, and start basing them on the reality of the situations. Opinions, theories and hypotheticals don’t mean a kitten thing at this point. The reality is that they’re failing, and failing miserably, and it’s because every single step of their mental process is flawed and in direct opposition to the reality of the matter. Literally every single step is the exact opposite of helpful. Every piece of it. The logic their using, the assumptions they’re under, their implementation, and the end result they crap out onto all of us. They couldn’t possibly be more wrong about all of it if they were actively trying to. And it shows. WvW is on life support, and they just keep punching it in the face.

People aren’t leaving because of tag issues. People are leaving because the game mode sucks, due to the consistently and thoroughly flawed direction they keep trying to force onto the playerbase, while completely ignoring anything the playerbase has to say about it. “People will like what we tell them to like, because we say so” should be their new manifesto. And they can use it to hype the flaming trainwreck their game has become, all the way to their bankruptcy hearing.

If they manage to pull their heads out of their backsides and take a healthy whiff of reality, and start going in the complete opposite direction as they have been, they might have a chance to save it. But as long as they keep trying to get to the destination by running the opposite direction, around the entire planet, they’re doomed for failure. And it’s all coming due as we speak. People have been trying to warn them for years, as the playerbase consistently dropped. And white knights always tried to blame anyone or anything else for the playerbase shrinking. But HoT put it front and center, with a magnifying glass on it so everyone could see. The reason WvW has been suffering since launch is Anet. Anet is Anet’s worst enemy when it comes to WvW. And even after 3 months, and countless threads pointing out all of the problems, with countless solutions (some even with pictures), what is their response? “Soon”. The same lie we’ve been getting fed for 3 years. “Soon”. Resulting in even more people abandoning this burning, sinking ship.

They need to stop “thinking” and start listening. They need to actually learn what they’re dealing with. They need to adjust their entire thought process. They need to turn 180 degrees and run as fast as they can in the opposite direction of everything they’ve been doing for the past 3 years. Either that, or they need to just come to terms with the fact that they’re in well over their heads, and shut WvW down entirely as a mercy killing.

Otherwise, they’re going to find themselves in bankruptcy court and unemployment lines. THAT’S how the world works. You don’t tapdance around in fairytale land, hiding from the “what if” monsters. You focus on facts and reality, and do the job properly. Or you fail miserably, and lose that job. And they’re hurtling at the speed of light towards the latter.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

This makes me sad.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

You killed the game mode and you say adding this and that won’t be healthy??? And rarely any of you posts here so how dare you to post this non sense anyway?
People will feel excluded? Non-guild members are already excluded from guild-raids, if anything invisible tag will reduce the “toxicity”. But I don’t expect you to understand anything, WvW is in bad state because of you, not us.

Do what you want to do, oh, you, all-might and all-knowing, EAnet. I’m done with this game and so are many.

Anet talking about something not being “healthy” to WvW is like a hospice nurse telling a patient they’re eating too much dairy.

Still think its funny. Auto upgrades excludes ALL players. Guild upgrades exlcudes the smaller ones vs the big ones. Saying a private tag would be un healthy is really a sad statement and makes you think even more about how clueless Anet actually is. These said guild raids without a tag happens for over more then 3 years now so giving them a tag does not make it worse or less then before. Pugmanders won’t vanish all of a sudden if you give out private tags…

ArchonWing.9480:

But I would like to ask you sincerely to consider how valuable the WvW populace is. We* are not locusts that have endless demands, complaining over a lack of new content, devouring any new content, and considering the cycle while leaving behind a wake of boring and soulcrushing grinds for the rest of us. If you show me an actual WvW regular that will bash Arenanet because Living Story 45 isn’t out in 2 weeks yet after 44 and there aren’t any new outfits this week, I’ll pay you a copper. Because you know, constantly spitting out “novel” content isn’t actually a reasonable demand. Making sure your content actually works on the other hand, I think is. Seriously, when people go “oh my god, there’s no new content”, I respond with “What the hell do you even want? Can you even be happy?” And then I understood why treadmills are created.

As long as the game mode is fine, and there are conflicts to be had, it’ll be fine. That’s how WvW basically survived for 3 years on pretty much minimal content changes. And there’s certainly many other players that are not WvW’ers that are also willing to stay with you because they sincerely enjoy the content and not off to some race to be a special snowflake.

I completely agree with this. WvW is a very special game mode and the players who play it are more than dedicated to the game. They don’t play for loot, they don’t play for shinies. They play for one reason only: the raw action and challenges that come through fighting against other players.

I can say truthfully that I have never played a game with such a fantastic large scale PvP format, and I still love it, like I am sure most WvW players do. Most of the WvW players have been throwing themselves into Eternal Battlegrounds and the borders for years now. They saw little to no changes in content, yet they stayed and kept playing there.

All we ask for is a stable PvP environment with a little bit of depth. The rest we, the players, have always provided ourselves. We have organised in guilds, in server communities, cooperated with eachother to fight the enemy. We created different playstyles and roles, be it commander, scout, roamer, pug, guild raider. Existing content has been used by players in very creative ways. We have even been fighting over things that were not even intended to be fought over, think about the hills at Overlook keep, the ruins at Valley. Think of the Guild vs. Guild scene that existed for so long without any framework provided by ArenaNet, think of the frequent friendly duels and skirmishes between players from opposing servers.

If anything the message to you, ArenaNet, should be that World vs. World is a game mode that must be cherished, along with it’s players.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

This statement alone shows you how unattached Anet is with WvW and the WvW community.

Hexalot.8194:

MasterD.4790:

Hexalot.8194:

gennyt.3428:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow.
….

Guilds have had private raids for years, yet there were always public raids as well because people play the mode differently and guild runs are very much a part of the WvWvW fabric. The same guild raids would coordinate with public tags and other private groups and there was a player made ecosystem.

…
We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

Isn’t the very idea of a guild exclusive, why have guilds at all then? Speaking of exclusivity, see the stuff added with HoT.

Azazel.5908:

Telling people not to play as they want (meaning, guilds asking players to leave) must be one the worst ideas I have ever seen getting support around here… What the hell…
I’m ALL for not implementing such a feature.
A lot of people on joining a WvW map will quickly leave it if they find no commander tags on the maps (specially now with low populations). Implementing such feature would make things EVEN WORSE.
Also, is borderline absurd that players are being excluded from game play because some “elitists” think they are the game mode’s owners…
If you want your tagless squad, just ask your squad leader to drop it and just rejoin.
There MUST BE a penalty (a.k.a not having a tag for themselves) for people who do this, otherwise in no time EVERYONE would do it, calling all sorts of “reasons” to justify it.
So NO for invisible tags.

-Above quote condense for spacing-
Guild runs aren’t the issue here because they’ve always been a part of WvWvW. I believe the issue is the mode is becoming less and less appealing to players for many reasons so public raids are dwindling because many times, those who want to tag up no longer see the value in it (or have quit) or they just can no longer get a decent force going. Also guild runs aren’t an implication that they own the mode, do what you want, they ask that you not actively follow and respect that they’d prefer to run as a group instead of being a beacon for every random person on a given map and having to manage that as some people actually do not enjoy this kind of play. Are some rude about it? Yes. And I don’t condone that, then again I don’t condone some of the abrasive attitudes of some pug commanders either.

Hexalot.8194:

Yep… some Guilds are the nicest people out there, the ones who make an effort to teach others WvW tactics, how to use team speak and so on, that in general contribute to a positive community on their servers. But then there is the other kind… the toxic kind (and I see a lot of their members posting in this very thread) where “it’s all about me”.

Guilds can have different goals and cultures, some have an open door policy and some are more restrictive in admission and are even tight knit, this has been the case in every MMO I’ve played. It’s not everybody’s job to educate you and I don’t know why you’d expect that. If your problem is that they’re not there for you, then the “it’s all about me” line is quite ironic.

Edit: spelling

Eh… nobody educated me on how to play WvW. I educated myself via watching others play and in general just doing my own thing. Practice, practice makes perfect and all that blah. Nor do I think that it is the sworn duty of every Guild to educate every Pug that comes along. But there is nothing wrong with creating an environment where people don’t feel uncomfortable and unwanted on the map just because a bunch of morons who feel they own the borderlands due to having the largest guild comes along and wants to hog all the fights for themselves. And when people feel comfortable, chances are they pick up how to play the game on their own much like I did.

Let me put it another way. ANET clearly wants each player on every Server to be able to participate fully in just about everything WvW has to offer. So a guild gets together and are doing their raiding thing ?

No problem, have fun. But as long as your Raiding group decides to tag up and run around on the same Borderland that WE ALL PAID for, I personally feel that every casual, pug and “rally bot” out there has every right to follow you. Full stop. Chances are, we are all heading in the same direction anyway, which is to siege a keep or take part in an open world fight against another Zerg. And as stated by the Devs, “their policy” is for everyone to enjoy everything that WvW has to offer, and that apparently also includes following a Com, so to speak. You guys survived 3 years using “control T”. You won’t die if you have to continue for another three.

Yeah….and I guess everyone who is at your job makes the same amount is you because you all are equally skilled…..

The reality is, people in guilds tend to be like-minded individuals and want to play in their like minded way. Whether that is roaming, scouting, defending, zerg busting or pugmanding.

What you are saying…is basically screw all that….you HAVE to tag up if you want to play a certain way and anyone should play the way you want. That is the EXACT thinking that Anet has and is driving the game into the dirt.

People join guilds and/or groups because they are playing with people who think the same way and want to play a certain way. Everyone should be allowed to play the want without forcing someone to not play the way they want. I.E. a guild raid shouldn’t be REQUIRED to tag up…and you should be FORCED to play a certain build and join a guild….or to roam…or whatever…. the problem is anet keeps trying to force things instead of supporting what already exists…

Now you’ve lost me. Where did I say YOU HAVE to tag up ?

IF you want to play the way you want with people who think the same way you do, then don’t tag up. ANET is basically saying here that they brought commander tags into WvW so that EVERYONE benefits from their presence on the Map… not just select Guilds. If you don’t get what their aim is here, I don’t know what else to say…

So now you are saying we all have to play the way YOU want? What is the difference to you if my group runs without a tag, or runs with an invisible tag? To anyone not in the group, it would be the same.

So basically, your two options are:
-run without a tag, making it hard to coordinate
-run with a tag, get randoms following (that are not in coms, may be uplevels, may have green gear, may be on whatever build they came up with last night), making it hard to coordinate

Marxx.5748:

So basically, your two options are:
-run without a tag, making it hard to coordinate
-run with a tag, get randoms following (that are not in coms, may be uplevels, may have green gear, may be on whatever build they came up with last night), making it hard to coordinate

Or, in our case, run two tags in EotM and confuse/anger your teammates.

…why not just give everyone tags for free if we are trying to not exclude anyone…[/sarcasm]

…and again, I am still sad. Such a simple QoL fix.

Let’s be real here. Anet’s idea of “inclusive” doesn’t mean talk to people on your server and be sociable with like minded players, it means hop on a map, play sloppily and selfishly and still win because you’re awesome, high five! Basically, zerg it up! Apparently we’re little kids with self esteem issues and need a trophy just for showing up. Regardless of players’ varying levels and aspects of participation, WvWvW’s design tries to keep everyone on this ultra casual, low hanging fruit level instead of providing tools for the different types of WvWvW players that have clearly emerged over the years. And you wonder why, fps killing, server lagging omni blobs become a thing and more and more guilds and scouts and havoc squads and solo roamers just can’t be bothered. Protect the zerg at all costs.

But guys. What if pve’rs use private tags in pve?!? *gasp

Okay so we don’t wanna exclude anyone. Can we make popping a tag a keybind then??

I imagined that most decent servers were capable of color coding their Commander tags. On our server, the following system seems to work fairly well;

Blue – Come join us at your own leisure, we welcome anyone, regardless of your PvP prowess. Come have fun. We want to help you become a better PvP player.
Purple – Guild group, avoid us unless we swallow our nonsensical pride and ask for backup should we require it to avoid our foes steaming over us.
Red – Small Objective Assault group of roamers that runs around taking camps, towers and so on forth. Depending on size, you may be welcomed to roam along.
Yellow – Objective scout looking for enemy forces, though these are excessively rare over the past year(s) I guess. There’s no need to gather at these guys, for obvious reasons.

I sure don’t miss the days of invisible call-target-“Commanders” (though some still do it that way), where you’d end up having a couple groups deciding to detour to the same objective, around the same time, and for one of these then to have wasted their time as they need to split off to find somewhere else to go. That’s the honorable thing to do in such a situation of course. That’s the unwritten World vs. Bro code. You don’t double dip. It’s been this way since ancient times. But.. hey, it’s annoying to find yourself in that situation. It’s unquestionably unorganized. Who likes wasting time? Kittenfurball me, it’s annoying as a solo roamer going for, e.g., a camp as well, because even then, you can be told to go away by some tense, worked up, hormonal (little) (wo)man that can’t even give you the chance to move elsewhere before they start firing their machine gun of virtual saliva, letting you know how unwelcome you are.

Now, I do of course understand that there are elitist Guilds out there that don’t wish for any other players to ever invade within their 9001 range vicinity. They wish to play solely together, for pride(!) and honor(!).. and renown(!)… uhm.. and reasons(!), thinking everyone who don’t bear their prestigious Punny Guild Name and [Tag] is a rally bot, and that their (frequent) losses are inevitably only caused because there was that one allied outsider (who perhaps didn’t even die) that happened to dare come near them as they were fighting their arch-nemesisesesesyllable-eh—ses and wiped. I get it, in that situation, it could perhaps have been nice to have invisible tags, because people will never stumble within your vicinity if you have invisi- oh, right. Well, at least there’d be no reason to verbally make people feel excluded.. wait, no, that would still happen.. there’d be.. I mean.. there are- there must be reasons… to have invisible tags, just give me a moment. I’ll think of some good ones.

Well, actually no.. I see no real reason for them. We have the ability to organize our maps now. And yes, there will of course be new players from time to time that has no knowledge of the color coded system, who start running alongside your precious Guild groups. But you know, sometimes someone just wish to jog alongside you because they are going to the same location as you, so.. you can perhaps wait a bit before you calmly explain the situation of the color coded system to them? If they in fact are following you, most players you explain things to calmly, are likely going to respect your wishes, listen and leave WvW if there are nobody else to follow. Because really now, why would we ever want more WvW players. It’s not as if a rise in popularity would actually make ArenaNet more interested in providing content for the game mode, right? Less players interested in partaking in an oft perceived elitist player environment, is probably the better path to pursue. We need invisible tags. We need less organization. We need more elitism!

Ok, I am being a bit hostile in my way of presenting the average WvW Guild. I do get it, we just want to run with our Guilds, and I see that as something perfectly respectable in all honesty. But still, if perhaps a few more Guilds would be interested in showing how good they really are at PvP, by changing their tag color to Blue if there are no “free-for-all” Commanders around, to allow these seemingly detrimental weights that are other players to tag along, the game mode could flourish a bit more. Asking for invisible tags is not in line with making the game mode attractive to develop for (beyond whatever they are doing to it in the coming months). Player interest will push for that, and people stop going into WvW if there are nobody to run around with. sPvP is more attractive than trying to solo roam since the WXP patch that made WvW into a zerg zone.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

You knew Golem week wouldn’t be healthy for WvW, but you still add it, you knew / we told you that the new map won’t be healthy for WvW, but hey, we have a new map.
Over the past three years, 90% of the things you added were not healthy for WvW, and you knew it, and yet this things are still in the game.
Am i correct? / don’t answer, i know you won’t /
And you think that private commander tag will make WvW a worse place than it is now?
Really?

You know nothing about WvW, TB?!?!

Absconditus.6804:

I imagined that most decent servers were capable of color coding their Commander tags. On our server, the following system seems to work fairly well;

Blue – Come join us at your own leisure, we welcome anyone, regardless of your PvP prowess. Come have fun. We want to help you become a better PvP player.
Purple – Guild group, avoid us unless we swallow our nonsensical pride and ask for backup should we require it to avoid our foes steaming over us.
Red – Small Objective Assault group of roamers that runs around taking camps, towers and so on forth. Depending on size, you may be welcomed to roam along.
Yellow – Objective scout looking for enemy forces, though these are excessively rare over the past year(s) I guess. There’s no need to gather at these guys, for obvious reasons.

I sure don’t miss the days of invisible call-target-“Commanders” (though some still do it that way), where you’d end up having a couple groups deciding to detour to the same objective, around the same time, and for one of these then to have wasted their time as they need to split off to find somewhere else to go. That’s the honorable thing to do in such a situation of course. That’s the unwritten World vs. Bro code. You don’t double dip. It’s been this way since ancient times. But.. hey, it’s annoying to find yourself in that situation. It’s unquestionably unorganized. Who likes wasting time? Kittenfurball me, it’s annoying as a solo roamer going for, e.g., a camp as well, because even then, you can be told to go away by some tense, worked up, hormonal (little) (wo)man that can’t even give you the chance to move elsewhere before they start firing their machine gun of virtual saliva, letting you know how unwelcome you are.

Now, I do of course understand that there are elitist Guilds out there that don’t wish for any other players to ever invade within their 9001 range vicinity. They wish to play solely together, for pride(!) and honor(!).. and renown(!)… uhm.. and reasons(!), thinking everyone who don’t bear their prestigious Punny Guild Name and [Tag] is a rally bot, and that their (frequent) losses are inevitably only caused because there was that one allied outsider (who perhaps didn’t even die) that happened to dare come near them as they were fighting their arch-nemesisesesesyllable-eh—ses and wiped. I get it, in that situation, it could perhaps have been nice to have invisible tags, because people will never stumble within your vicinity if you have invisi- oh, right. Well, at least there’d be no reason to verbally make people feel excluded.. wait, no, that would still happen.. there’d be.. I mean.. there are- there must be reasons… to have invisible tags, just give me a moment. I’ll think of some good ones.

Well, actually no.. I see no real reason for them. We have the ability to organize our maps now. And yes, there will of course be new players from time to time that has no knowledge of the color coded system, who start running alongside your precious Guild groups. But you know, sometimes someone just wish to jog alongside you because they are going to the same location as you, so.. you can perhaps wait a bit before you calmly explain the situation of the color coded system to them? If they in fact are following you, most players you explain things to calmly, are likely going to respect your wishes, listen and leave WvW if there are nobody else to follow. Because really now, why would we ever want more WvW players. It’s not as if a rise in popularity would actually make ArenaNet more interested in providing content for the game mode, right? Less players interested in partaking in an oft perceived elitist player environment, is probably the better path to pursue. We need invisible tags. We need less organization. We need more elitism!

Ok, I am being a bit hostile in my way of presenting the average WvW Guild. I do get it, we just want to run with our Guilds, and I see that as something perfectly respectable in all honesty. But still, if perhaps a few more Guilds would be interested in showing how good they really are at PvP, by changing their tag color to Blue if there are no “free-for-all” Commanders around, to allow these seemingly detrimental weights that are other players to tag along, the game mode could flourish a bit more. Asking for invisible tags is not in line with making the game mode attractive to develop for (beyond whatever they are doing to it in the coming months). Player interest will push for that, and people stop going into WvW if there are nobody to run around with. sPvP is more attractive than trying to solo roam since the WXP patch that made WvW into a zerg zone.

While that is an amusing read, there are a couple of things you’ve overlooked. You said you can’t think of any benefit of private tags, aside from keeping people away. Here’s two benefits. People running private groups would be able to actually use the CTRL + T targetting system to actually target enemy players. They also wouldn’t have to keep turning the private tag back on any time they waypointed.

And as far as "making the game mode attractive to develop for? At this point….. they need to worry about making the game mode attractive to play. So far, they’ve managed to chase most of their playerbase off. How attractive would they find developing a game mode that they’ve killed off due to their consistent bad decisions for it?

I want as many options as possible put into the squad system. More colours for tags would be welcome as well. A colour code for tag purpose would be even MORE welcome! Yellow: guild runs; Blue: Public groups; Red: Fight group; Pink: whatever

I’m tired of being spied on. Whenever I’m tagged or part of the commander’s squad I seem to get spotted immediately when I go off to solo towers/keeps/sm. If I do it in secret with just 1-2 trustworthy others NOBODY ever finds us.

Sm was fortified and had been under siege with a busted wall for 20 minutes. I Went in and built a ram and took down the inner solo with nobody spotting me. Inside were 4- 5 omega golemns. Countless other examples like this occur. If you tell people in teamchat that you are gonna hit an enemy keep, the enemy is usuallly waiting on the cannons for you regardless of whether you do it in stealth or not (without being seen). It’s painfully obvious the enemy relies on what shows up on ‘our borderland’s’ public map.

Anet instead of limiting us to try and maintain your ‘almighty vision’ of WvsW, you should try to just give players what they want with no strings attached! You couldn’t make things any worse at this point.

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

Players are already excluded by their community for alot of content in wvsw. This is the indiviual communities decisions obviously, but these communities and decisions thrive because of the system you ALREADY have implemented. It’s hypocritical to just revoke certain features and their benefits thinking it will ruin the amazing exclusion free system u already don’t have.

X T D.6458:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We’ve avoided adding this feature because we don’t believe it would be healthy for WvW. While we can appreciate why some players would want a feature like this, lots of other players only engage in WvW when, upon entering a WvW map, immediately see a commander icon to follow. We try and avoid adding features that can be used to intentionally exclude other players.

Doesnt autoupgrades do that exact same thing? Excluding players…from actually participating in it, was that not considered before it was implemented? I know I know someday, we dont know when yaks will matter again like they did before…

Basicly this.
What would be more frustrating for you, Tyler: Knowing there is a Commander on the Map (Guildintern), getting told to leave because not beeing in the Guild, not getting rezzed when downed, not having fun at all OR Not knowing there are guilds running closed Raids, jumping on a other Map (or the Server TS) to find a public?

I hope you Guys finally to a step in the right direction when it comes to WvW.