Guild Wars 2

Jeknar.6184:

Atherakhia.4086:

Wasn’t the whole point behind EotM was to test questionable game decisions?

And how they are suposed to make WvW tests on EotM if WvW players hate EotM with passion and never step in there?

Also the players that turned EotM on K-train won’t help with any testing as all they want is their phat lewts.

All this change is going to do is turn WvW into a EotM k-train.

Gonna quote myself from the other thread here
(why do we have so many threads about one and the same topic? -.-)

Arantheal.7396:

mango.9267:

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

except that it doesn’t.

I guess they don’t want us to mention server names, so a short situational explanation before I go into my actual argument:

Server A (my home):
Low pop (upper end bronze) outside of prime-time, many dedicated defenders, tho. Many small guilds (10-15) as well, and during primetime most of them perform rather well. Also we always have at least one pug-commander on EB, which we call over to Home if we need to defend, while guild-groups + roamers focus Enemy Borders.

Server B (current matchup):
Outnumbers us vastly to all times (middle-low tier Silver). Does not even care to scout and k-train 24/7. Additionally they have 2 small guild-groups during prime-time, hopping maps and ganking other guild-groups exclusively (we’ve never seen them to try to attack a structure since friday ( first time that we’re matched up against B )), luckely we are mostly even numbers, but they interfere with and delay all our efforts during prime, which enables the k-train to rush in and clear almost all attacks on their stuff before we can make it to the lord.
Thus they have t3 keeps almost all week long, even tho their k-train does not put a single foot in their homeborder unless some WP is contested.

Server C:
Upper tier bronze as well, gets steamrolled, just like us (even harder since there is some personal Yadda Yadda going on between C and B ).

So, IF we would not have white swords, we could flip their towers + camps without Server B noticing it in time, crush their PPT and out-maneuver their k-train vastly. That would even allow us to downgrade their keeps even before it gets a wp (no contested wp to notice a siege cross-map).
Additionally we already have dedicated defenders on Server A who still upgrade and siege stuff, even while this karma-blobb is around (and actually scares them off from time to time), so our performance would not be impacted in the slightest.
Same goes for C, which also have their eco on a green footing.

I welcome this change, and would really like to see how Server B’s k-train / gank-squads reacts to this situation.

Mishi.7058:

The lack of swords promotes smaller scale groups to be able to attack objectives without having a huge blob rain down on them, unless the enemy sets scouts in locations to defend. Any server who has a lot of dedicated wvw’ers already know the importance of scouts, and not waiting on swords to pop, due to many groups attacking a location and 30seconds being in it by the time a sizeable force is set to respond, unless a scout calls over voice comms the enemy, #, and if the enemy is dedicated with siege or not. (Also those scouting do know how to divert most the attacks by use of siege to defend with.)

Now what the swords removal does is havoc groups who run 5-10 deep, will have a chance to attack a location which has no scouts and not have a group of 30-40 run in on them. So it is promoting smaller groups (most refer to as havoc.) into running around on maps, and giving them more of a chance to get into a tower/keep if the enemy doesn’t set scouts.

As for finishers, you have a free one by default. (So it doesn’t force people to buy one.) You really just buy them if you don’t want the standard finisher. (Or you can earn them in game.)

As for PPK, this is something which interests me. I am curious to find out if PPK includes counting those who alt+f4 once downed.

No swords can allow for this to happen, but that’s only if the strategies employed by defenders in WvW don’t change to turtle harder to prevent this from happening. At that point it can only make running havoc even less effective than normal.

For finishers, I appear to have mistaken the term for the paid ones.

DeceiverX.8361:

Mishi.7058:

The lack of swords promotes smaller scale groups to be able to attack objectives without having a huge blob rain down on them, unless the enemy sets scouts in locations to defend. Any server who has a lot of dedicated wvw’ers already know the importance of scouts, and not waiting on swords to pop, due to many groups attacking a location and 30seconds being in it by the time a sizeable force is set to respond, unless a scout calls over voice comms the enemy, #, and if the enemy is dedicated with siege or not. (Also those scouting do know how to divert most the attacks by use of siege to defend with.)

Now what the swords removal does is havoc groups who run 5-10 deep, will have a chance to attack a location which has no scouts and not have a group of 30-40 run in on them. So it is promoting smaller groups (most refer to as havoc.) into running around on maps, and giving them more of a chance to get into a tower/keep if the enemy doesn’t set scouts.

As for finishers, you have a free one by default. (So it doesn’t force people to buy one.) You really just buy them if you don’t want the standard finisher. (Or you can earn them in game.)

As for PPK, this is something which interests me. I am curious to find out if PPK includes counting those who alt+f4 once downed.

No swords can allow for this to happen, but that’s only if the strategies employed by defenders in WvW don’t change to turtle harder to prevent this from happening. At that point it can only make running havoc even less effective than normal.

For finishers, I appear to have mistaken the term for the paid ones.

True, though we wont know until the change comes. I think that’s why they are running it as a “test” change, and not instantly permanent.

Arantheal.7396:

Gonna quote myself from the other thread here
(why do we have so many threads about one and the same topic? -.-)

Arantheal.7396:

mango.9267:

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

except that it doesn’t.

I guess they don’t want us to mention server names, so a short situational explanation before I go into my actual argument:

Server A (my home):
Low pop (upper end bronze) outside of prime-time, many dedicated defenders, tho. Many small guilds (10-15) as well, and during primetime most of them perform rather well. Also we always have at least one pug-commander on EB, which we call over to Home if we need to defend, while guild-groups + roamers focus Enemy Borders.

Server B (current matchup):
Outnumbers us vastly to all times (middle-low tier Silver). Does not even care to scout and k-train 24/7. Additionally they have 2 small guild-groups during prime-time, hopping maps and ganking other guild-groups exclusively (we’ve never seen them to try to attack a structure since friday ( first time that we’re matched up against B )), luckely we are mostly even numbers, but they interfere with and delay all our efforts during prime, which enables the k-train to rush in and clear almost all attacks on their stuff before we can make it to the lord.
Thus they have t3 keeps almost all week long, even tho their k-train does not put a single foot in their homeborder unless some WP is contested.

Server C:
Upper tier bronze as well, gets steamrolled, just like us (even harder since there is some personal Yadda Yadda going on between C and B ).

So, IF we would not have white swords, we could flip their towers + camps without Server B noticing it in time, crush their PPT and out-maneuver their k-train vastly. That would even allow us to downgrade their keeps even before it gets a wp (no contested wp to notice a siege cross-map).
Additionally we already have dedicated defenders on Server A who still upgrade and siege stuff, even while this karma-blobb is around (and actually scares them off from time to time), so our performance would not be impacted in the slightest.
Same goes for C, which also have their eco on a green footing.

I welcome this change, and would really like to see how Server B’s k-train / gank-squads reacts to this situation.

Since server B outnumbers your server. They can put up a sentry on every structures and still k-train your BL and you still can’t

Wait, since it’ll be ppk and not ppt.. why would defending even matter anyway? Or will it be both ppk and ppt?

Deli.1302:

Wait, since it’ll be ppk and not ppt.. why would defending even matter anyway? Or will it be both ppk and ppt?

It will be both. Just like now some servers get half on their points from stomps and half frpm objectives.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Sirendor.1394:

• Removing white swords will make it impossible to find any fights… Goodbye WvW

Not true, you just need to have scouts at towers and important paths.

What? Scouts? What world do you live in, cause it’s definitely not mine. Our wvw population is groups of 3-5 people roaming. We don’t do scouts.

retsuya.4708:

Since server B outnumbers your server. They can put up a sentry on every structures and still k-train your BL and you still can’t

Just because they can, doesn’t mean they will… If even with swords they seen to not have dedicated defenders, and with everyone just saying “I’m not defending kitten during this test” you really think there will be people posted on towers other than the ones that already do it?

Atherakhia.4086:

Jeknar.6184:

Atherakhia.4086:

Wasn’t the whole point behind EotM was to test questionable game decisions?

And how they are suposed to make WvW tests on EotM if WvW players hate EotM with passion and never step in there?

Also the players that turned EotM on K-train won’t help with any testing as all they want is their phat lewts.

All this change is going to do is turn WvW into a EotM k-train.

Well no not at all if you K-train under the new rule set your risking a lot of points for your side. The ideal is that now when you go into wvw and fight your death means something other then a fast wp back. Why risk the main way to get points (killing ppl or having ppl kill you) for just a bit of “K-traning?”

In a lot of ways this should fix the effects of night capping because the passive point gain from holding keeps etc.. will become a very small part of the weeks total points. At the same time if you had no risk in leaving a keep etc.. undef and let the game tell you when something getting attked you would have no reason to do any thing but watch a map for the swords. But now that you will need a human there you risk that player’s death giving the other side more points.

I think these rule changes are going to push WvW into hardcore mood you may see major shift in who realty is kitten etc.. Now if this will make it better or worst i have no ideal and these are only temp. changes for a reason should be at least worth some fun trying out a new point system.

PariahX.6970:

can’t we just wait and see what it does before we go all bonkers? Yeah it might suck but isn’t trying something different better than nothing?

- Well, I think removing a useful feature is worse than doing nothing. There are actual bugs they could be fixing, you know. I don’t think anybody would mind that supply spending would work correctly, structure upgrades wouldn’t get stuck or points timer wouldn’t show —.-- for hours.

VaaCrow.3076:

Ok, at first I was against this, but now I think it will be a nice change, (I play on gunnars hold). Anyhow, I personally think this will be a cool change, it will allow us to compete with the bigger servers we face because, as soon as white swords appear you get blob raining down on your 5 man havoc squad, and as a result you got 0 chance of ninjaing t3 towers/other things.

Sure, I think this could help in your example; however, and I believe this to be more likely, a bigger server can drop 30 players into an enemy BL, fully supplied, split into 4 or 5 havoc groups and take over several towers at a time – and the only way a smaller server would notice the multiple attacks would be scouts everywhere (unlikely…they may see one or two of the groups but they won’t have the coverage to see all of them) or when the towers flip.

This would be my strategy if I was a large server – paper an opponent’s BL with a large zerg, then keep it papered with havoc groups throughout the week. Hit Bays, Hills, and Garri so no WPs can be built; since I am sure that WPs will still have swords. No WPs, no warning. Rinse and repeat.

I’m wondering, how many of you that are saying, removing white swords its ok, because all you have to do is to have few scouts here and there, so how many of you are willing to stay in one tower/ keep for 1-2-3 hours and are you agree to do this every day?

Avit.3165:

I’m wondering, how many of you that are saying, removing white swords its ok, because all you have to do is to have few scouts here and there, so how many of you are willing to stay in one tower/ keep for 1-2-3 hours and are you agree to do this every day?

No need realty because most of the points are going to be from kills. A keep give you about 25 points ever 15 mins the number of ppl you can kill in 15 mins is a grate deal more. This is why they are removing swords if the game is going to tell you where the other team is attking with no risk then ppl will simply camp for the swords and know where to get max numbers of points at any given time with no real ability to counter play this.

Mishi.7058:

As for finishers, you have a free one by default. (So it doesn’t force people to buy one.) You really just buy them if you don’t want the standard finisher. (Or you can earn them in game.)

Sure, you can earn them in game by doing anything OTHER than WvW. 20 sPVP finishers but not even one for 100s of hours of WvW.

Scouting and running Dolyaks are 2 of the least rewarding aspects of WvW which explains why there is virtually nobody doing them although both are valuable assets. Even having 1 or 2 scouts watching the map can make a big difference and direct guilds/blobs/zergs to a fight. Taking away the white swords will end up with groups running round and round in circles looking for or avoiding each other.

If PPK is to be the next big thing, great, take out the towers and keeps and have one big battlefield. The majority would be happy but there will still be a big minority who still want more than simple zerg on zerg battles all the time.

WvW at the moment, offers a variety of options for different playstyles. Removing white swords may not be a big thing to most people but it is enough to alienate sections of an ever decreasing population and not everyone wants a simple 1 dimensional game which, with the introduction of PPK and the removal of the white swords, indicates the direction the game is heading, for some at least.

There have been countless ideas put forward over the last 2 years, countless discussions and debates and yet despite all that, this is the best Anet can come up with?

GW2 was a breath of fresh air at launch, an MMORPG which dared to be different and succeeded. Whatever happened to the design flair and philosophy since then? Seems it has lost its way and died.

It is definitly not the best anet can do but its quite easy to remove white swords. Let’s see what happens Tuesday, im 99% sure its going to be a huge ktrain fest.