Guild Wars 2

ParaldaWind.4523:

Okaishi.8320:

If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make it very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.

This is the best idea I’ve heard on the issue.

+1. Great idea that people will want to get and fight over. Give the outnumbered buff the stats and reduce the damage % drop from siege on the bloodlust buff to 11% per buff making it a realistic protection from siege at all three buffs plus ppt on stomp.

Have you read this yet Devon?

“After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back”

This was posted by Habib Loew.6239, one of your own designers.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Okaishi.8320:

If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make it very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.

This is the best idea I’ve heard on the issue.

Agreed.

It also seems strange that Bloodlust buffs stats, when the WXP abilities are all about buffing siege.

If buffing stats is so important to get people to WvW, then why does WXP not buff stats? They don’t, so clearly the devs believe buffed siege is a motivator.

So, if seige buffs is a sufficient WXP motivator, why can’t it be a sufficient Bloodlust motivator?

Savoy.6824:

Have you read this yet Devon?

“After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back”

This was posted by Habib Loew.6239, one of your own designers.

Posting any suggestions to these forums is an utterly useless waste of time. As long as new WvWvW crew has been in charge, they have always implemented the opposite of what the majority of the player base wants, disregarding of also what has been stated before by Arenanet. See:

Since Autumn players complained about Arrow Cars able to shoot into locations they shouldn’t —> Arenanet massively buffs their damage and adds overpowered WXP traits
(the Arenanet devs originally said “small changes and small steps at time”, now we can see is surely wasn’t the case. More than doubling the damage and area in just one patch)

Players have been been begging for account bound commander tags and WXP —> not going to happen (“Guild Wars 2 will not require you to grind and everybody can fight in level ground” LOL… now imagine the time to level up WXP for 7 different alts to give them just max ranks in guard killer and defense against guards, not to mention all those other WXP trait lines).

And so on.

Skychok.7854:

However regarding the “poll”, I have no opinion until I try the content. It helps to not be closed-minded.

Not sure if you knew this already, but this buff was already in WvW back at the beginning. The mechanic to get it has changed, but the buff is nearly the same. It caused snowballing back then, and the fears that players have about it are not unfounded, and not without prior evidence (proof?) to back them up. :-/

The buff was removed by the team led by Devon’s predecessor, IIRC. Players have been asking for a modified (MF/Gold-based) buff to be returned ever since.

For the last time people the mechanics introduced will not break up zergballs. Those inviduals who still find safety in numbers will still do so even with the spread capture points.

Why do people think that an introduction of spvp style capture points will somehow invalidate the other ingrained mechanisms of wvw that promote zergplay? Will these new capture pts somehow remove commander doritos and force people to evenly spread out? Please. You’re being foolish. This isn’t a gvg issue it is entirely a balance one. No server that is outnumbered will have the numbers or coverage to hold these points from larger populated servers. That is a pipe dream.

All this will do will increase scouts from 0. To 3-5. That’s it. Congrats.

No to statbuff on bloodlust. Yes to 11% siege reduction and ppt per stomp per buff. Stats on outnumbered

Personally, I think the bloodlust (horrible name btw since that prefers to power in the game) should do the following:

1. Double wxp gained while the buff is active
2. Double karma gained while the buff is active
3. Double magic find while the buff is active
4. Double points earned while the buff is active

Of those, 4 is really the most exciting. It means that a server that is behind could focus on holding the buff in order to help with a comeback.

no, dont ask me the reason because I could go on and on and on and on and on and on and on..

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

If it wasnt obvious already you made sure now that you do not play WvW, or have any idea what is good for it.

Unless you ofcourse promote and LOVE stronger (read, larger numbererd) servers getting even stronger. Then good job with that.

What a response… i feel being trolled here

Before people get too upset about the impact of this buff, why don’t we try it out for a couple of weeks. If it really does lead to snow-balling they can try something different. However, I really think this is just going to support more coordination and small-man fighting, which will be way more fun.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

Are you aware about nightcapping? Do you have plans to merge servers? With WvWvW being a 24/7 gamemode and with such vast differences in coverage between tiers its practically irrational to assume that all servers can queue full maps 24/7. There are alternatives to stat boosts that add more layered strategical mechanics to WvW such as some of the suggestions mentioned in other thread for e.g. upgrades going faster, giving siege invulnerability etc all these are mechanical aspects that PROMOTE teamwork and coordination and don’t mess up the balance that a straight up stat boosts would do.

Ever since Arenanet changed how matchmaking works my server (Fort Aspenwood) hasn’t had a single competitive matchup. We’ve had a weeks where we were completely overmatched and got dropped down to under 50 ppt at certain times of the day and we’ve had other weeks where the opposite happened and we sit at over 500 most of the time, but there has not been a properly competitive matchup since Anet broke up the established “tiers” that used to exist.

This means that, at any time since the matchmaking change, the addition of a capturable stat buff to the borderlands maps would have been a disaster. The team with 500+ PPT would obviously own the buff in all three maps just like they own almost everything else and their players, who are already winning most of their fights thanks to overwhelming numerical advantages, would become even harder to fight, even if you managed to isolate a smaller group of them.

We already know the upcoming league seasons for North America are going to match servers against each other that are as much as 12 places apart on the ranking table. Those servers are already going to be at an extreme disadvantage during the week due to numbers alone. Now they’ll be severely outnumbered and facing the stat equivalent of wearing masterwork gear against enemies in exotics.

lollasaurus.1457:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

figured i should post the rest of what he said…to be more specific —> It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future<--that part of the paragraph….

edited cause i just couldn’t leave the post of that copied 3 times up…1 time is more then enough to prove that there is more to what he said then the 1st sentence

Savoy.6824:

Have you read this yet Devon?

“After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back”

This was posted by Habib Loew.6239, one of your own designers.

This. :-(

Please reconsider the stat boost. I think we all realize that since the patch is tuesday, we’re gonna see the buff in WvW at this point. But I would ask that ANet please pay attention to both a combination of player sentiment on the issue (both now and after launching it) as well as noting its impact on the game itself. Please keep an open mind about modifying the bonus to better suit the players desires and the health of the game.

Parts of it are awesome (the stomp bonuses and the map changes are great ideas), but the per-player stat boosts harmed the experience significantly in the past, and will undoubtedly cause a repeat of the same problems.

I would humbly ask that in the near future you consider altering the boosts to buff things like siege defense, or siege damage instead of individual player stats. MF and WXP boosts are obvious options as well.

It is true they told us we could expect a return of an orb-like mechanic in the future, but that generally seemed to imply it would only return after both major problems of the orb mechanic were solved.

The two major problems with orbs is that they were cheater-bait and that they made it even more difficult for overmatched servers to try and fight back. Replacing the stealable orbs with static capture points in the middle of the map solves the first problem but does not address the second one.

BlackBeard.2873:

Before people get too upset about the impact of this buff, why don’t we try it out for a couple of weeks. If it really does lead to snow-balling they can try something different.

You’re forgetting that we played with a stat boost already, in first months of the game.

And itwas a disaster, snowballing every match and finally removed with the additional excuse of the “too easy to hack”.

Yes, the orbs.

Stice.5204:

It is true they told us we could expect a return of an orb-like mechanic in the future, but that generally seemed to imply it would only return after both major problems of the orb mechanic were solved.

The two major problems with orbs is that they were cheater-bait and that they made it even more difficult for overmatched servers to try and fight back. Replacing the stealable orbs with static capture points in the middle of the map solves the first problem but does not address the second one.

if the overmatched server takes the capture points will that not give them an advantage over the team steamrolling them..granted it is a smaller buff then you get from food so its not a whole lot but it does add more depth to the game and i like to think that if a zerg is focused on getting the buff that will leave something else open for a possible ninja/steal…seems like they put them in the middle to give every server the same chance to get them..i also believe that anet designs the maps to be full not around half empty maps so in a situation where all 3 servers have a queue on the map this will bring a new lvl of depth to the fights

AndrewSX.3794:

You’re forgetting that we played with a stat boost already, in first months of the game.

And itwas a disaster, snowballing every match and finally removed with the additional excuse of the “too easy to hack”.

Yes, the orbs.

And yet the main issue with the orbs was the fact that people hacked into keep and took them. Which removed half the mechanics of the orbs.

Strang.8170:

And stomps giving points doesn´t accomplish that already?

In many big fights people don’t actually stomp though. But rather just AoE the enemy down, which would mean that a system that only rewarded stomping would be quite toothless.

lordkrall.7241:

AndrewSX.3794:

You’re forgetting that we played with a stat boost already, in first months of the game.

And itwas a disaster, snowballing every match and finally removed with the additional excuse of the “too easy to hack”.

Yes, the orbs.

And yet the main issue with the orbs was the fact that people hacked into keep and took them. Which removed half the mechanics of the orbs.

The main issue was the buff causing unbalances and snowballing, the hacking was just the nail on the coffin.

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game.

Mooodster.3470:

i also believe that anet designs the maps to be full not around half empty maps so in a situation where all 3 servers have a queue on the map this will bring a new lvl of depth to the fights

If that’s the case then their design is severely flawed. How many servers have a large enough active WvW population to come anywhere near filling all 4 maps? My server is one of the larger ones in North America and we only have entrance queues for a few hours a day during the first three days or so of each matchup.

I’d guess we spend less than 10% of each weekly matchup with our maps filled, so Anet probably shouldn’t be making major design changes based only on that situation.

Stice.5204:

Ever since Arenanet changed how matchmaking works my server (Fort Aspenwood) hasn’t had a single competitive matchup. We’ve had a weeks where we were completely overmatched and got dropped down to under 50 ppt at certain times of the day and we’ve had other weeks where the opposite happened and we sit at over 500 most of the time, but there has not been a properly competitive matchup since Anet broke up the established “tiers” that used to exist.

This means that, at any time since the matchmaking change, the addition of a capturable stat buff to the borderlands maps would have been a disaster. The team with 500+ PPT would obviously own the buff in all three maps just like they own almost everything else and their players, who are already winning most of their fights thanks to overwhelming numerical advantages, would become even harder to fight, even if you managed to isolate a smaller group of them.

We already know the upcoming league seasons for North America are going to match servers against each other that are as much as 12 places apart on the ranking table. Those servers are already going to be at an extreme disadvantage during the week due to numbers alone. Now they’ll be severely outnumbered and facing the stat equivalent of wearing masterwork gear against enemies in exotics.

+1 this, this, this, and more this

Stice.5204:

Mooodster.3470:

i also believe that anet designs the maps to be full not around half empty maps so in a situation where all 3 servers have a queue on the map this will bring a new lvl of depth to the fights

If that’s the case then their design is severely flawed. How many servers have a large enough active WvW population to come anywhere near filling all 4 maps? My server is one of the larger ones in North America and we only have entrance queues for a few hours a day during the first three days or so of each matchup.

I’d guess we spend less than 10% of each weekly matchup with our maps filled, so Anet probably shouldn’t be making major design changes based only on that situation.

why design a map around a half full map…really that’s like admitting you don’t expect people to want to play it…

Mooodster.3470:

Stice.5204:

Mooodster.3470:

i also believe that anet designs the maps to be full not around half empty maps so in a situation where all 3 servers have a queue on the map this will bring a new lvl of depth to the fights

If that’s the case then their design is severely flawed. How many servers have a large enough active WvW population to come anywhere near filling all 4 maps? My server is one of the larger ones in North America and we only have entrance queues for a few hours a day during the first three days or so of each matchup.

I’d guess we spend less than 10% of each weekly matchup with our maps filled, so Anet probably shouldn’t be making major design changes based only on that situation.

why design a map around a half full map…really that’s like admitting you don’t expect people to want to play it…

Worse. If it’s not designed for max capacity it run a high risk of things breaking down completely when filled to capacity.

Dual.8953:

Worse. If it’s not designed for max capacity it run a high risk of things breaking down completely when filled to capacity.

I think the much, much bigger risk is things breaking down completely when one side of the three-way matchup is filled to capacity but the other two are well below that level. That’s a common enough sight in the current WvW matchups that I really think it should be factored into the design.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

There is a difference with an objective making people enjoy a game way less than an objective that makes you want the enemy to not have it.

That said, you should start listening to the feedback you get as a game is no game without it’s comunity, and if they make it clear that they don’t like a certain thing in every way possible and you still ignore that the nthere is a problem on your side.
The way you totally ignore the constructive threads proves how obsessed you are with your own oppinion.
If you think thakittens weird that people are mad at you then you obviously shouldn’t be at the position you currently have. We are waiting for your vision of the game, where you want it to go and what you think of your comunity, the real thought.

I’m open for a discussion with you, many are.
My guil leader offered to take you in our raid for a night, even challanged you for a 15v15 fight to show you the beatuiful combat you have in WvW.

So give us a clear answer instead of avoiding us and making a part of your comunity mad enough to lose all faith in GW2

^ And yet the “community” is more than one group.
There are most likely just as many people that likes the stat-buff that there are people that doesn’t.
Why would the group that doesn’t have more value in their feedback? Because you agree with them?

Because a stat based buff will destroy WvW as whole.

Orbs proved it.

If that group of ppl you’re talkign about can’t see beyond PPT, the 3 skills of a siege weapon and PvD, and already forgot the blowouts due to Orbs, that’s their problem.

Because 1 side of the comunity doesnt care for what the buff is as long as its attractive where the other side does NOT want stat buffs, both agree that the new map will be a fun area.

Also Im looking at this thread with the vote here aswell, where 80% said no, and half of the people that said yes were peopel who only voted yes because they wanted GvG dead

lordkrall.7241:

^ And yet the “community” is more than one group.
There are most likely just as many people that likes the stat-buff that there are people that doesn’t.
Why would the group that doesn’t have more value in their feedback? Because you agree with them?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Istaf.1953:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Oh, a minuscule part of the community have said something in a thread (where quite a few of the posts actually are in favor of the buff no less) is sure a good indicator about how the community as a whole feel.

The community is MUCH bigger than the forum-goers. And even by only counting forumites it is a rather small minority that have posted in that thread.

There are actually guilds considering leaving the game because of this. Not because of the stats effect but the lack of understanding or engagement from the developers with regards to this issue.

lordkrall.7241:

Istaf.1953:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Oh, a minuscule part of the community have said something in a thread (where quite a few of the posts actually are in favor of the buff no less) is sure a good indicator about how the community as a whole feel.

The community is MUCH bigger than the forum-goers. And even by only counting forumites it is a rather small minority that have posted in that thread.

Absolut, in a forum and in such a post you will generally find the unhappy people. The happy people simply have no reason to show up

Online polls are really not good evidence to cite in an argument because they do not represent a random sample. The responders are self-selected and will consist entirely of people who have a strong opinion and wish to voice it, but that doesn’t mean they actually represent a majority (or even a large minority.)

Stick to logical arguments or comparisons similar systems, not extremely flawed polls.

Stice.5204:

Online polls are really not good evidence to cite in an argument because they do not represent a random sample. The responders are self-selected and will consist entirely of people who have a strong opinion and wish to voice it, but that doesn’t mean they actually represent a majority (or even a large minority.)

Stick to logical arguments or comparisons similar systems, not extremely flawed polls.

Does not mean there is only a few people saying no there, who talk for most of their guilds aswell seeing that most guilds have an equal mindset.
It also doesn’t show all of the players that are against this stat buff, if just the stat buff got chnaged noone would post a bad word on these forums.

I’m still up for a good old discussion with “he who will not be named”
And A lot of people require a proper statement from him so they may stay in this game although I doubt that he will say a word as they get ignored anyway.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

Wait let me get this right, providing boosts like %WXP dont have impact in the fights against other sides, so to reflect this, arenanet have since day 1 made the outmanned buff a buff which improves exp, karma gain and magic find.

So by your logic, a server who is outnumbered deserves no boosts to their combat ability. But when a server outnumbers an enemy, such that they may hold these locations as well as their structures, they deserve additional stats as well.

Here is whakittenink. I think you genuinely have no idea what or why you do things. After every idea you come up with, you make a post announcement justification for why it is the way it is. Even if it is contrary to the entire ethos of the development towards wvw so far.

Orbs were removed because of stat boosts. Outmanned buff doesnt even give stat boost. But you figure the more populated servers should have stat boosts. Is that really the truth?

To me its just laziness, you dont have the creativity or the man power to code something interesting for the buff, so you add a generic stat buff, something you already have code for, and just present it as “MAJOR WVW UPDATE” to fool everybody.

No comment. I miss the GW1 developers.

Swamurabi.7890:

Coverage disparity between servers means that most matchups will have one server that would dominate anyway, also get stat buffs by having 3-5 more scouts. Something that would not make a difference.

Bloodlust is not the fix for night capping and server stacking. It just makes both worse.

Roe.3679:

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

That’s all well and good, but these buffs will benefit those with more numbers, making the strong stronger. That’s the biggest issue with the stat buffs.

Tellerion.8102:

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

There you have it.

(Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Orbs-will-be-removed-from-WvW-in-an-upcoming-build/first#post608170)

These are my biggest issues with this change. You have completely ignored one of the largest complaints which is that there is an imbalance in coverage and population – and now you add this change which does nothing but make the strong stronger. I’m not really sure how you can ignore the problem like this? Making it worse is actually proof positive that you’re not listening.

I will admit that the actual gameplay may make a significant difference in how I’m thinking; I will keep an open mind until I see it action. It may be that small teams of 10-15 may be able to keep this playable: they may be able to negate the whole “making the strong stronger” thing. If they are mobile, cooridinated, and dedicated to keeping the new capture points in flux, a small team (instead of a zerg) may make a difference. We’ll have to see.

And as for the unofficial GvG in this area – you guys may as well forget that happening. The whole point-for-stomp thing is enough of a factor that you couldn’t keep dedicated groups of PPT’ers from interrupting every skirmish you try to coordinate in that area. In other words – it would’t work for your GvG tournaments.

They need to just open up an SPvP type system where you can have up to 30 members of each team on a small, open map, one without capture points or structured goals of any kind. This should provide the play area you need in order to continue playing the game the way you like, which I wholeheartedly support. They already have the foundation for such an offering in the SPvP system – they need only expand on it a little.

No – but I do like the point-for-stomp mechanic and the new playable area.

You people pontificating about “the community” and polls not having random samples crack me up. “The community” plays wvw now. Do you not get that a big chunk of “the community” absolutely will drop this game if this change goes into effect? It will destroy gvg, it is unwanted by the segment of “the community” that wvw’s for the fights, not the ppt. Wake up people, you’ll like this game a whole lot less when that chunk of “the community” leaves.

Devon, get a clue, this is a totally unnecessary game changer. You’re about to blow this gig. This is not just the usual forum QQ, listen to your most passionate fans. They’ll leave over this.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

Devon, its quite obvious that you have no clue about what wvw needs. Your team`s relation and communication with the wvw community is horrible and people are leaving.
Nobody asked for this buff and the idea behind it its just wrong. You continue to encourage blobbing and now you guys make it worse by giving blobs even more advantages.
GG

nothing.7941:

listen to your moist passionate fans.

I don’t think any of us quite that passionate, dude.

The buff should NOT affect combat in any way.
So it should NOT give any stat bonuses, except for MF, karma, and wvw exp. Give it more supply capacity, faster cows, points on stomp, all good.

Stice.5204:

nothing.7941:

listen to your moist passionate fans.

I don’t think any of us quite that passionate, dude.

Good find, corrected. I am getting a little frothy over this though tbh, but not like that.

Even if we can’t convince him of the snowball argument, couldn’t we have the buff effect siege/npcs/towers, rather than players? To me that’s still a decent incentive to go for the points, and in puts the focus on structures rather than player kills, which is what this game mode is about…? If you buy into the snowball problem this will probably be just as bad, but assuming that Devon doesn’t this could be a potential solution – it provides a statistical/tactical advantage without sacrificing duels/fight clubs/gvgs.

Roe.3679:

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

That’s all well and good, but these buffs will benefit those with more numbers, making the strong stronger. That’s the biggest issue with the stat buffs.

The buff benefits players that have it. That’s not the same thing as those with more numbers. There are countless examples of where players with smaller numbers win against big zergs.

Brando.1374:

Wow….. sooo out of touch with the WvW community.
well might as well enjoy wvw while its still good.

So now you’re claiming WvW is good now? If it suited your argument you people would be moaning about the glory days of WvW before ability points.

Tellerion.8102:

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

There you have it.

(Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Orbs-will-be-removed-from-WvW-in-an-upcoming-build/first#post608170)

For the supposed WvW elite you guys seem to have great difficulty comprehending the difference between a server wide buff that can be locked away in a fully upgraded keep stacked with siege and two gates to break down before you can get the orb or having to defend three points at all times with no defensive gates or walls, just terrain designed to raise the skill cap on combat.

I doubt it will turn the tide in battle for a losing server. What I expect it will do is it will give players something new and valuable to fight over. It will create new activities to do in WvW that will matter. Instead of having the option of joining the zerg, pointlessly roaming, scouting or flipping supply camps, you can now fight over the ruins. Open field combat, no walls or gates to knock down, lots of emphasis on terrain in combat and a guarantee that a zerg alone can’t replace you. The stat bonus from holding it means that you can feel like you are contributing to your server (honestly very few people will care about reduced damage from seige, especially on lower servers, a celestial buff is something most players can understand and care about).

In addition to this, the ability to score points with stomps means that roamers will contribute more to their server.

The orb buff and the ruins mechanic offers a lot of the WvW community. The fact that some other communities don’t like it doesn’t detract from its value to WvW.

The whining from the “GvG” community because their interests aren’t being placed ahead of WvW is getting really old.

lordkrall.7241:

Istaf.1953:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

Oh, a minuscule part of the community have said something in a thread (where quite a few of the posts actually are in favor of the buff no less) is sure a good indicator about how the community as a whole feel.

The community is MUCH bigger than the forum-goers. And even by only counting forumites it is a rather small minority that have posted in that thread.

Okay I’ll bite. To my knowledge I’m the only person from RET in that thread. Yet my whole guild seems to also hate it.

That street goes both ways.

No, it’s a ridiculous idea in which the community has not been consulted on.

Let us act astounded and disgusted that they did what they said they’d do!!!

In all seriousness, I find people’s reaction on these board face palm worthy. It’s like no one sees the value of strategy and coordination. Only basic number, be it damage or body count. They wouldn’t know a fortifide military base from a hole in the ground. I mean it, the can’t tell the differemce between locking an orb in the center of a fully equipped, fully upgraded keep; and a series of capture point, left in the open where anyone can waltz in.

They should implement the stat buffs on the outmanned buff and not to the server with the highest population. Even the stomp can be given to the outmanned and you will get a tighter score. The bloodlust can be the outmanned buff like we now it now with the difference that the servers without the bloodlust are getting a 20% reduction in loot, wxp, karma,…. buff. This way no server will let the others have the buff because they earn a lot less than.

I’m really concerned about the stat buffs on the capture points as I hear people considering quitting the game if this is actually implemented this way. I’m not one of those people, but I see the dangers of such a buff. For example, in our current matchup we face far greater numbers very frequently, which is already more than enough of a challenge. Imagine how demoralizing it would be if 150 to every stat would be added on top of that, something a server with a lot of coverage will have no problem getting access to.

As I’ve suggested in another topic, instead of the stat buff to make the capture points relevant to WvW, why not add something like siege protection for every borderland you control enough points on? Maybe 10-15% reduction per borderland you control them on. As such they are very relevant to warfare in WvW, and they do not damage morale as badly as the raw boost to the enemy stats. It also adds strategic value to controlling the capture points, because you’ll want those before attacking a well defended keep. For the defenders, neutraling the capture points becomes important as well. Plus, it would not impact the GvG scene in any way, which would be very convenient for people who are interested in doing those (such as myself).

I’m repeating my idea here because I’d like to bring it to the attention of a dev (I feel a new topic has more of a chance for Devon seeing it), as I would very much like the stat buffs not to be added to the game. Not just for the sake for the GvGs, but for WvW in general especially considering buffs like that have been removed by devs in the past, the reason being that strong servers in one-sided matchups simply snowball their advantage even more.

(topics merged by a mod, this was originally intended as a new topic)