Guild Wars 2

hell no i don’t want a stat buff.

i went through the orb era once. i remember how embarrassingly one-sided those matches were. each and every single match, each and every single week, was a MAJOR blowout in favor of whatever server had the orbs. the data was all there on the millenium site for anyone to see. it was extremely telling how much of a problem the stat buffs were. the hacking of the orbs was just a minor annoyance by comparison.

what people liked about the orbs was the extra dynamic they provided. going up to the north camp, taking it from the altar, the mad dash to get it back to a keep, and then focusing on defending that keep.

so, basically, they left out the good, and only brought back the bad. there’s no other way to describe it other than flat out ignorance and/or incompetence on Anet’s part. either they’re actively trying to kill WvW, or have no clue what they’re doing whatsoever.

compound the buffs with the hideously unbalanced matchups the seasons are going to provide, and WvW will be a ghost town by the end of the first week. how they can’t see what’s so blatantly obvious is beyond me. it’s like they’re stubborn children that refuse to accept the reality they’re dealing with, and just cover their ears, stomp their feet, and do the opposite of what they should as some sort of deranged act of defiance. that may sound harsh, but it’s the honest truth at this point. they are absolutely destroying what used to be a good game, and it’s only been a frickin’ year. there are brain damaged drug addicts that don’t make decisions this stupid. if WvW survives another 3 months in any kind of competitive form, it will be a miracle.

though, if everyone gets fed up and goes to wildstar when it comes out, NCSoft wins twice and gets to laugh all the way to the bank. so it’s not really hard to see their motivation behind continually crapping the bed with every single opportunity they’ve ever had. every. single. one. it’s just plain pathetic at this point.

No to a stat boost.
Yes to the mechanics.

Not in it´s current implementation, NO!

No, Nein, Niet, Nie, Non ,…

Haters incoming…

Brace yourselves! haha!

Since this makes sense and has straightforward reasoning, I would expect a 0% chance of you being taken seriously.

So basically making a buff that is not a buff but rather an icon that no one will ever bother to take?

The stat-buff is a rather good reason for people to make sure to take the buff and/or make sure the enemy doesn’t. Which in turn will also break up zergs and that is a good thing.

lordkrall.7241:

So basically making a buff that is not a buff but rather an icon that no one will ever bother to take?

The stat-buff is a rather good reason for people to make sure to take the buff and/or make sure the enemy doesn’t. Which in turn will also break up zergs and that is a good thing.

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

Ya, make the bloodlust buff give us a bonus to magic find. :P

It would keep the points on stomp part. Meaning that holding the ruins is important to increase the ammount of points you get. If you play WvW to win you don’t need stat buffs.

Do you Honestly think that if this buff has no stat increase people wont take it? If you hold all three it means that each stomp gives almost the same points as a camp. I’ll repeat it: EACH STOMP, same points as a camp does in 15min, to the whole server across all maps. I honestly believe that enough incentive to get them.

lordkrall.7241:

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

Because having 3 scouts sitting on points and able to call out the zerg, which can be on the point in 1-3 min from anywhere in the BL, will surely break up zergs.

As far as defense goes, ppl will just ignore Bloodlust points as long as there’s something under attack, cause that’s where bag will drop. Roamers excluded ofc.

I think you’re going to need something juicier then a PPT stomp bonus if you want worlds to take the time to hold 9 points. Something that your server will want, but more importantly, the enemy servers won’t want you to have.

Aneu.1748:

lordkrall.7241:

So basically making a buff that is not a buff but rather an icon that no one will ever bother to take?

The stat-buff is a rather good reason for people to make sure to take the buff and/or make sure the enemy doesn’t. Which in turn will also break up zergs and that is a good thing.

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

I do think it will break zergs to some extend, though has to be seen – you could have the zerg defending the buff and from there move to defend areas – maps are small. Needs to be seen how ppl will use this areas.

However, I still feel it will play in the hands of the bigger populated server creating further imbalance with the bloodlust buff.

I think I will really like the new zone, its a good move by Anet to make points per stomp, just don’t like the stat increase.

lordkrall.7241:

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

I’m not going to get into a theoretical debate with you on this because in our heads we can come up with some crazy ideas as to how we feel things should work when in reality you wont get it. If you put effort into researching this buff you will understand the mechanics behind it in terms of time to capture and what it takes to remove the buff from an enemy server – Its not as straight forward as you would believe.

With the buff points being in the central area of the map to get from any keep to those points requires 30s to 1min depending on class. Its very easy to get people to trickle into these points until your entire zerg shows up, wipes what is on the point trying to take it and heads back merrily on their way into the tower or keep they were just sitting on arrowcarts in.

This will not split up zergs, if anything it will make them more prolific since you will require your entire server zerg to take these points, if you go with any less you will meet another server with more numbers meaning you call for more meaning they call for more meaning you call for more, rinse and repeat…

Again, stop being naive.

If each capture point was +50% wxp accumulation stacking to 150% they would get a lot of attention because these days those trains are farming WXP not PPT in the main part.

Coverage disparity between servers means that most matchups will have one server that would dominate anyway, also get stat buffs by having 3-5 more scouts. Something that would not make a difference.

Bloodlust is not the fix for night capping and server stacking. It just makes both worse.

Lurch.9517:

If each capture point was +50% wxp accumulation stacking to 150% they would get a lot of attention because these days those trains are farming WXP not PPT in the main part.

1) 3 sets of 3 points. So 9 points = 150%
2) Why should the enemy care you have +150% WxP? Why will they take the time to fight you on point for it?

Each point gives you a 25% damage increase on siege to structures… – No stat increase. FIXED

count updated again

lordkrall.7241:

LordEnki.9283:

Absolutely no! Anet has been coming up with some really stupid ideas lately.

You do know that this very buff existed at the release of the game, right?
So it is not really something they have “come up with lately”.

It was stupid to lately reintroduce it I quess.

I would like to genuinely thank the WvW development team for these changes and thank you for the hard work.

However regarding the “poll”, I have no opinion until I try the content. It helps to not be closed-minded.

I have no sympathy for the GvG roleplayers, it has no place in WvW.

Skychok.7854:

I would like to genuinely thank the WvW development team for these changes and thank you for the hard work.

However regarding the “poll”, I have no opinion until I try the content. It helps to not be closed-minded.

I have no sympathy for the GvG roleplayers, it has no place in WvW.

GvG roleplayers ? o_O Now, I’ve heard them called elitists, snobs, even pests, but roleplayers, thats new.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

That’s all well and good, but these buffs will benefit those with more numbers, making the strong stronger. That’s the biggest issue with the stat buffs.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

But people dont care for things like this! People care for FUN fights, these must be equal or close to it, those that every move make a difference in the out come not some silly extra stats due to more coverage on another map

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

If you really want to impact the match that badly ( which in my personal opinion is a bad idea ), why not add 5% points for every tick per buff? That makes it interesting to have it, doesn’t it?

There is a poll of how many people actually want a stat buff here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Do-you-want-a-blood-lust-buff/first

At this moment, more than 80% doesn’t want a stat buff, please listen to your community.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

Then what about a waypoint? Hold three points and you get a waypoint in the middle of the map somewhere. So that it’s not too OP you could have the WP open every 3 mins or so.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you.

That’s the freaking point!

Nobody wanted stats buffs getting in the way of battles – not on enemies, but neither on themselves.
People wants more battles, better ones, less siege and coverage war, not a buff which will make the already rare clashes on open field and similar strenght nearly impossible to see.
And when there’s a open field clash between 2 groups of similar numbers and strenght, the most skilled one should walk away alive, not the one that has double the coverage and holds 9 cap points across the BLs.

Get it for once and hear your playerbase.

Inbefore “GvG QQ stop it” – that’s the enjoyability of WvW as whole that will get stomped by Bloodlust.

DevonCarver.5370:

… but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

And stomps giving points doesn´t accomplish that already?

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

By “controversial” do you mean “universally opposed”?

Unkitteningbelievable

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

You could have made it easily in a way that the buff is contributing to points or points gain. The fact that you made it a stat buff proves that you did not learn from the orb´s . Very unfortunate that anet is so resistant to learn from previous failures.

I think people would have been much more happy (in comparison) if they just nixed all these plans, and just made point per stomp permanent.

Wow….. sooo out of touch with the WvW community.
well might as well enjoy wvw while its still good.

mordran.4750:

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

You could have made it easily in a way that the buff is contributing to points or points gain. The fact that you made it a stat buff proves that you did not learn from the orb´s . Very unfortunate that anet is so resistant to learn from previous failures.

It’s funny, because the old devs completely understood the snowball effect that the orbs caused. There are old quotes from Habib talking about this very issue and explaining why orbs were removed.

If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make these points very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.

Okaishi.8320:

If you want the buff to make an impact on WvW warfare in general, why not make it so you take 15% less damage from siege for each 3 capture points you control? Siege Wars are bad enough with tons of people hiding inside their keeps and towers rather than coming out to fight. Plus, it would make it very valuable to take before attacking the more important objectives, like well defended fortified keeps.

This is the best idea I’ve heard on the issue.

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

There you have it.

(Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Orbs-will-be-removed-from-WvW-in-an-upcoming-build/first#post608170)

So this is Habib’s reasoning for removing orb’s from WvW a while back ago:

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

That’s right, it’s going to be deja kittening vu, while the way of getting it will be different the issue that’s described in the bolded part will very much be the same.

Or am I missing something?

Just make the buffs only apply their specific borderland. While you’re on the borderland and have the bloodlust you get the buff. Once you leave the borderland the buff goes away. That way servers can’t stack all 3 buffs at once. The buffs would be worth it but not ridiculous like the current idea is. The buffs would add a layer to the borderlands for both attackers and defenders. “Do we stop defending to go take back the bloodlust to ultimately help our defense?”. This would also keep Eternal Battlegrounds more of a neutral playing field as it was designed (all the spawns are the same distance from the castle, etc. etc.)

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

Yep.

And one other thing that is forgotten is that Arrow Carts used to be buffed early in Beta, until they were nerfed by BWE 2 or 3 for exactly the reasons people complain about them now.

As has been said, current design choices appear to show a poor understanding of WvW as it is actually played, or even the history of past design choices.

Aneu.1748:

lordkrall.7241:

Aneu.1748:

Stop being so naive to believe it will break up zergs… It wont.

So… how do you suppose a server that only zergs will be able to take and hold 3 different points at the same time without breaking up? And on top of that also defend their towers/camps/keeps?

I’m not going to get into a theoretical debate with you on this because in our heads we can come up with some crazy ideas as to how we feel things should work when in reality you wont get it. If you put effort into researching this buff you will understand the mechanics behind it in terms of time to capture and what it takes to remove the buff from an enemy server – Its not as straight forward as you would believe.

With the buff points being in the central area of the map to get from any keep to those points requires 30s to 1min depending on class. Its very easy to get people to trickle into these points until your entire zerg shows up, wipes what is on the point trying to take it and heads back merrily on their way into the tower or keep they were just sitting on arrowcarts in.

This will not split up zergs, if anything it will make them more prolific since you will require your entire server zerg to take these points, if you go with any less you will meet another server with more numbers meaning you call for more meaning they call for more meaning you call for more, rinse and repeat…

Again, stop being naive.

^This, you are delusional if you think this is going to magically give losing servers a better chance. Even if you are right and somehow magically this does stop people from rolling 30-40 deep, it doesnt combat population imbalance, 3 groups of 15 or 1 group of 45 still outnumber and will stomp the losing servers groups due to snowballing.

Even if they do manage to bring enough people to combat them, they will be fighting people with +150 stat bonuses on them.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

A buff to siege damage would have the same effect, and there is also a multitude of other options that would make a valuable buff, but instead you picked a type of buff that is absolutely hated by a very good amount, if not most, of the PvPers in this game. Please, explain to us the thought process behind that decision.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost, while controversial, is there to give the buff meaning in the context of the general WvW battle. Providing boosts like %WXP, etc. don’t have impact in fights against other sides, they are just a nice bonus for you. The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

Devon pls, the whole reason orbs were removed in the first place before, it was because it made servers that were stronger, even more stronger. You are just trading half dozen for 6.

More world xp, no armor break plus other stuff WILL make and incentive people to seek for the buff. Specially if they are a considerable amount. How about adding physical rewards to the buff? Like increased karma, gold from events or increased crafting ascending materials for taking towers.

No, as people have commented the servers with higher coverage will get stronger while the weaker servers get weaker. The whole reason they removed the orbs in the first place.

This will help in matches where the coverage differences are slight. You have 30 on the map and they have 40 and another has 35…Bloodlust will open up the number of targets and will divide the attention of all three servers away from hard target objectives.

Which would be a great idea if we had static matches, but the same folks who are bringing us this brought us RNG and Leagues. So this has just made one-sided fights even more ridiculous.

I agree with an above poster. Make Bloodlust increase PPT by gain by 3% per Bloodlust obtained. With potentially even more ppt than SMC on the line, you can bet people will make them a priority.

The best part is that it makes them a must have for both the low scoring server (to deny it to the higher) and the highest scoring one.

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back.

I miss Habib. He removed culling and understood the community.