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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Disclamer, my english is awful, like bad.

Hi i’m makign this post because i want to try and improve the situation and game mode that many of the roaming/raiding/gvg guilds do on a regulary basis since the start of the game.
I’m the leader of one of these guilds, mine is called DAWN we’re currently on Gandara and were born on Aurora Glade, Eu servers

One of the main problems that raiding guilds have is consistent challange every raid and every night, for a long time we got relatively lucky as a guild and found great servers and great guilds to fight against, to practice and get better.
Now many guilds don’t have access to consistent challange and that makes them progress slower and because of that the whole gvg process gets slowed down
I want to propose 2 solutions to these problems one for the short-term, so our player/guildbase does not shrink, and another long term solution to improve the situation even more.
Before starting i want to put a few things forwards, when i talk about GVG i mean waht some people in Gw2 understand as GvG, a fight in WvW with the same amount of people usually in the format of 15v15 or 20v20, with multiple rounds usually Bo7 or Bo9.
I’m not talking about Gw1 GvG, if you like that, great, in this thread i’m trying to discuss what is considered by some people what is GvG in Gw2

Solution number 1 SHORT TERM

Making the Obsidian Sanctum use the Mega-Server system Or EOTM Style of management/overflow/map.
In short be able to make multiple Obsidian sanctum’s and being in the same map of the other server with the same color, it opens up the possibility to do multiple GvG Options by a ratio of 9, in the best occasion and probably by an actual ratio of 3 to 5,
to explain, we have 27 server’s in the EU, right now GvG and fights can be done with only the 2 OTHER server’s in the matchup, with the solution that is proposed here you would be able to fight 18 different servers that don’t have the same color as your own server(Green/Red/Blue)

Why this system? Well this system it’s the easiest way for ANET to implent it’s efficient in time wise for development and can solve some of the problem that Raiding Guild face.

Making an Example: DAWN currently is on Gandara, this week we are facing Jade Sea and Augury rock, there are a few guilds in these servers but not many. When i watch all of the match ups of this week i see that i could fight a guild in Far shiverpeaks because they are not my color and because of that we could be in the OS and do a GVG

Counter argument for this system or why to even put any effort in improving the current situation:

1) GvG/Raiding community is pretty small, yes we’re not the biggest community pretty sure, any other game mode PvP, PvE WvWvW ppt is bigger but it’s a community born inside another game mode, and for now is still alive with just minor helps from the start of the game(Obsidian sanctum itself).
The possibility do do more GvG with more option and more level of Skill, opens the real change to improve in both quality and quantity of this game mode that even though its unofficial, it is present to this day without being helped much from the start of the game.
with that i just want to say, ANET you have you’re priority and it’s fine, this push to do GvG and this type of fights will be here regardless, with a bit of help you could gain players and more playtime with minor development time.

2) A System like this would make trolling and Griefing in the JP more often and to an higher degree, and the same counts for the arena itself.
I dont think the playerbase doing the JP constantly is that big and the same trolling griefing could be done now as it is anyway, but this system defenitly hs a chance to increase it.

For GvG trolling/griefing yes it could increase and probably would with the increase of players, but it can also be controlled by guild/server mates killing/warning repeat offenders interrupting and adding in the GvG’s when not wanted.

3) The System is clunky and guilds will have to join multiple times/join enemy’s to get in the same map and then taxi everyone in, yes it’s clunky but its easy to implement, a solution like this could take from 2 weeks to a max of 2-3 months and i think this is a good solution for being short term, i don’t see any other solution that requires this little time to implement.

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

(edited by Amelia Knox.9362)

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Part 2

If you have any counter argument/constructive criticism/ideas feel free to post it below, i’ll try to answer the best i can.

time and cost of implementation, it should not take much to do this, it’s mostly testing that needs to be done, activating the mega server into the OS map EOTM style, so it might take a bit to handle resets and such but it’s mostly there.

Testing not sure what type of type of testing could be done but mostly to make sure that it doesn’t break the server.

If anybody wants more detail of this system, feel free to ask. this is an Idea, i think ive read something similar like this on this very forum and i tried to put the idea out a bit better, i dont need credit, just think about it and let us know ANET.

Solution Number 2(Long-Term Solution)

To be sustainable and make the GvG community flourish we need a Real GvG arena with an Instanced system, like the custom arena but bigger for the number probably up to 30v30 to allow spectators.
This type of arena should have PvE stats so it can’t be just the current custom arena but bigger, it also needs a better server than the current custom arena, especially compared to the start, when with my guild we we’re trying 10v10 inside the arena and all the people got heavy lag during the fights.
A system like this would introduce the possibility to fight guild’s of the same color or even the same server, especially in EU there are a specific servers that have guilds that are orientated around Raiding/GvG/roaming so that would increase the pool of possible guilds to fight.

Also being able to join the arena from a different server would create a new gamemode itself, because people dont have to transfer to be in the same server to fight with their friends like TPVP, make the team and play, no need to transfer to play with friends.

The Lack of need to transfer will make creating new guilds in the GvG scene easier, because the pool of players would be from all servers and not only the one where they are from.

Time and cost of development:
Time wise i think this would take atleast 8 to 18 months to get this system implemented and working.

For the Map the OS map with the JP so only Gvg Area would be enough one team starting from the tunnel and an other team starting from the other side.

I can expand on this second system but i would like to focus the short term solution first.

Thank you for your time to read this idea/suggestion.

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

(edited by Amelia Knox.9362)

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

reserved for more info

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: kribre.9683

kribre.9683

Greate ideas Sam!

Yesterday we actually had the exact same conversation in Dius, and we came up with both the same ideas.

The first solution would be an easy way of Anet to help out a big part of their playerbase that play this game on a regular basis. In addition to this the stagnation of the game would be decreased and the interest would hopefully once again flourish!

Tripilios
[VII] – Seventh Legion – retired
[Dius] – Semper Dius – Kodash

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Posted by: Atlanis.1473

Atlanis.1473

Yep its very nice, that way the PPT and the GVG crowds wouldnt eat each other, as its happening on many servers atm.

Will Anet listen, im doubting it.

Keva

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Yep that would be a positive effect as well.

The important point of this idea/system would be easy to implement and at very little cost for Anet because the same guild that could Raid in borderland could be doing Gvg would also promote less people in same map, so less lag and load on the server especcialy peak load that cause Lags and such, solution it’s simple enough to be viable

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

Thank you for articulating this so well and suggesting megaserver for the OS. I’ve pointed out myself how stacking gvg guilds into a single tier (NA T2) was unhealthy for the scene. People took it as whining about FA dropping to silver…

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: etrigan.4213

etrigan.4213

Solution #2 is something they should have developed from the start to be honest.

Nox – Fort Aspenwood
I AM BEST!

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Posted by: Bertrand.3057

Bertrand.3057

Devs definitely need to step up and realize these ideas. They would provide a lift to the GvG community without disrupting the existing WvW format.

Talleyrand, Captain and Commander of the Bloody Pirates
Asura on patrol in defense of Gandara and Bessie!
Administrator of http://thisisgandara.com

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Posted by: Lawrencii.1356

Lawrencii.1356

. I’ve pointed out myself how stacking gvg guilds into a single tier (NA T2) was unhealthy for the scene.

I agree 100%

Also agree with OP that is needed a GvG mode and also think that the day GW2 can have a GvG mode it will fix some of the stagnation on WvW at least in the NA servers. But this is another topic.

OP,

I think it could even be more easy than that. Take OS GvG part of the map and put it in sPvP. That way, any guild from any server in NA can fight any other guild from NA at any time (same in EU). Honestly, we dont need the WvW/PvE stats to GvG, this way players from guild who love the theorycrafting can also do it and dont need to waste 80 gold every time you have to change runes. WvW gear for ZvsZ, ZvsBlob or roaming is not need in GvG.

If with time Anet wants to have a GvG ladder like in SPvP or make of it a “new game mode” in GW2 that would be great. But we only need that map that lest us fight any guild we want no matter in what server they are.

Peace.

Edit: Edited last word. Now it reads peace instead of pace.

¬ I A Euphy ¬ SoS ¬

(edited by Lawrencii.1356)

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Yep the two solution i proposed, the short term one i tryed to make as simple possible so it became just a Design choice instead of techinical problem to try to fix or implement, the system it’s there, works no problem for EOTM and while i’m not sure it’s probably the same system or with just minor changes for Pve maps, so doing it for the OS would techinical easy and only a choice about we want to do it or not, i think they can be only some concern for the JP section but i think the choice could be.

The long term solution that in the past it’s just the start i would like to do a more complete description, talking about future and thinking as well how to make it as easy as possibile to implement, the easier it is to do the better it’s the change of happening

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Well, hopefully people are listening to this.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

There only reason for OS to be a wvw map is for pvp with teams decided by tier match. It doesn’t contribute anything to wvw, much like eotm.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: Vavume.8065

Vavume.8065

OR why not have OS be a custom arena just like spvp, either you buy it for say 1000g or you earn it through art of war guild perks, you can then have your own version of OS and invite whoever you want, simples.

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Well Vavume in long term solution Should be like Os but as custom arena, the focus for now should trying to get an easy to implement, near 0 cost for Anet, the easier and cheaper it is the more it’s the possibility to get this actually implemented.

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Malinuk.2148

Malinuk.2148

Supporting all the way!

[One], [INC]

Raid Leader & Guild Leader of Square One

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Posted by: Liza.2758

Liza.2758

i kinda give a clap for those try so hard with this gvg … but Dev don’t support this type zerg v zerg and wvw mode where stats are so unbalanced.

while they do support tpvp more, its still slow as hell with the updates.

why dont u play the game that support zerg v zerg instead (ws)

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

@Liza Thank you for the feedabck, well Devs actually did the Gvg arena in OS in the past as yes somebody can say it was for that incident in past but they stated it wasn’t and it was alreayd a working in progress or more probably a concept already there in ANET, so i think the truth it’s the don’t much time to develop for now a system like it’s needed, so that’s why i’m trying to explain and propose a system that has little cost for ANET and with big advantage for all the players involved in Gvg scene and such.

Even just having more guilds able to gvg more often it’s already good, if servers had enough guilds, the problem would be there, but right now it’s not like this, it could be in the future, the short term solution it’s a way to improve and increase Gvg population and option by a lot.

Also most GvG guild do plenty of Zerg vs Zerg, and i’m sure it’s going be still a major part of Guild activity, but this short term solution give them option to do also something else that they love.

In the end, If developer can’t make this short term solution for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter, if you love something you need to try to safe it/improve it anyways, no matter what is the outcame, this plan has a chance to be done, let’s try to make at easy as possibile for ANET to implent it, showing support and giving feedback to them.

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

I would happily have played GvG in a custom arena WITH PvP stats if it allowed for 15/20v15/20. I feel to many GvGers are too picky about it being PvE stats. If everyone plays according to the same rules (or limitations in this case) its all good.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: wads.5730

wads.5730

I would happily have played GvG in a custom arena WITH PvP stats if it allowed for 15/20v15/20. I feel to many GvGers are too picky about it being PvE stats. If everyone plays according to the same rules (or limitations in this case) its all good.

same. if spvp supported that many players i dont think there would be such a big outcry for gvg

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Yes of course the Custom arena with more space even just 15v15 would be awesome but i think it’s techincal limitation of the arena it self and of the underlying structure so it would be hard to implement without adding server and that’s a barrier

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Goodi.7931

Goodi.7931

I’ve been thinking something like the 2nd option for a long time already – who in the GvG scene wouldn’t have? :/

Gets my full support.

Ciryandil Blackwood – Elementalist
Crimson Conspiracy [CC]
Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

In gw1 GvG was a 8v8 game mode. The goal was to kill the enemy guild lord npc. So everything is ready to make a gvg in spvp. We just need more maps with lords and a ladder.

WSR→Piken→Deso→Piken→FSP→Deso
Just the WvW
R3200+

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Posted by: zedixa.4063

zedixa.4063

Totally support this. Anet plz read

Syndictive [Syn]
- Zed

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Posted by: Oega Boogabooga.6207

Oega Boogabooga.6207

If they consider both ideas, they could even start looking into a variant of the PvP and Pve tournement of legends that are being orgonized atm.

In any case, i completely support this idea

random characters here

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

When I bought the game I was looking very much forward to doing some GvG.
Now 18 months later I think I have to accept that GW2 will never be the game I was looking for when I made the purchase.

They will not reply to your thread, every time someone mentions GvG in an interview the dev. seem surprised, as if after GW1 we shouldn’t expect that sort of balanced gameplay anymore.

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

@Xilllix well i’m hopeing for answer and a change, that change would mean a lot to the all gvg community without much Time spent for Anet because the system it’s already used for other maps and Eotm and will requide little testing and only mostly a Design choice more than everything, i think as well the problems for makeing the map with a Megaserver system would be minimal in any case thank you for your feedback

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

When I bought the game I was looking very much forward to doing some GvG.
Now 18 months later I think I have to accept that GW2 will never be the game I was looking for when I made the purchase.

They will not reply to your thread, every time someone mentions GvG in an interview the dev. seem surprised, as if after GW1 we shouldn’t expect that sort of balanced gameplay anymore.

i bet no dev has ever participated in a GvG

(and that guy with the “rekkin my game mode” debacle was just a bystander)

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: morri.2736

morri.2736

When I bought the game I was looking very much forward to doing some GvG.
Now 18 months later I think I have to accept that GW2 will never be the game I was looking for when I made the purchase.

^^ This. I accepted it a lot earlier though. I still had some inkling of hope when they announced the new map, EotM. But that didn’t turn out to be what I had hoped for.

Yeah, we got OS. OS and the whole GvG scene reminds me a lot of local village soccer tournaments. A farmer puts the cows in the stable to free up a meadow, you plunk down some buckets to use as goal posts and you invite the neighboring village’s soccer team to play against. A handful of people come to watch, and the local baking wonder sells some cookies and lemonade on a camping table.

How different GW1 GvG was…

I wish you good luck with the proposal and the ideas, however. Hopefully for you guys something good comes out of it.

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Posted by: warriorjrd.8695

warriorjrd.8695

+1 lets hope this gets the attention is deserves.


It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.

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Posted by: Twinny.9304

Twinny.9304

Personally I feel that one of the causes of server stacking is due to not having something like this implemented. Guilds Stack particular Tiers/Servers in order to have the opportunity to face a certain variety of opposing guilds, for example if A B C server has X Y Z Guilds you would not transfer your guild to A B C server, but more than likely a server that faces A B C quite regularly. Every other guild follows same pattern and end up most of the GvG scene stacked within the same 2 Tiers. Where if something like the EoTM system was in place Guilds could freely occupy servers they wouldn’t normally occupy for less queue’s creating a better server balance in that region, whilst still having the opportunities to face the guilds they want to face.

Twinny Todd – Guardian – FSP [PunK]
Big Bad Bunny – Necro – FSP [PunK]

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Posted by: amaranthined.5167

amaranthined.5167

i bet no dev has ever participated in a GvG

Not true because we once invited someone from ANet who was watching in OS into our guild to do like two rounds with us lol.

Totally support this idea, would be great to be able to gvg any guild (well-known top tier ones as well as lower-tier ones) without having to transfer. Would probably help with the population imbalance as well, since everyone won’t have to go to the top 2-3 tiers for better fights.

Henge of Denravi [VLK]
Zvezdana & Dana Uses Splash; Elementalist // Evegeniya; Engineer // Melinoe; Necromancer

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Posted by: Aiden.6483

Aiden.6483

As opposed to the PvE and PvP community, which I think can and in fact, DO drop the game on a regular basis (in PvE people just play and stop whenever they feel like it, be it weeks months whatever, and many PvPers stop playing for many weeks at a time when they get mad at skyhammer and stuff:D) the WvW \ GvG community is one of the most dedicated to the game. They are constantly active, if you don’t practice working together as a group of 20-30 players, things can fall apart very easily, and that’s why when it comes down to it, IMO, Anet should definitely pay some attention to their most dedicated crowd.

We’ve endured many other MMO releases and stuck out with GW2.
Not supporting gvg game mode is one thing- but maybe use existing infrastructure and resources to make us a bit happier?

Mediocre multiclasser,
PvP & WvW roaming

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Posted by: FrouFrou.4958

FrouFrou.4958

I’m not too excited about the spvp option, I like the diversity that comes along with the gears we use in wubwub. Converting OS arena into a spvp map would prolly be less time consuming tho.

Froudactyl // Herp Derp Druid // Judge Legends [JDGE] // Seafarer’s Rest

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Posted by: Sinbold.8723

Sinbold.8723

Just curious- if GvG is your thing, why not make a guild team for team pvp?

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

@Sinbold The custom arena are limited to 10v10 people and many times when a 10v10 is done there is lag in the fight

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Sinbold.8723

Sinbold.8723

And you don’t experience the same lag when you’re on a WvW map at full capacity?

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Posted by: warriorjrd.8695

warriorjrd.8695

And you don’t experience the same lag when you’re on a WvW map at full capacity?

I think it’s more to do with an open arena is required, which spvp doesn’t provide, as well as PvE/WvW stats.


It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.

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Posted by: SkylightMoon.1980

SkylightMoon.1980

Thx for makin the post and showin support for the mode, a lot of people have been asking it for a while and I don’t think we should stop, its an ever changing gametype the players have created and I hope to see more support added!

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Posted by: CrimsonNeonite.1048

CrimsonNeonite.1048

GvG and WvW are not the same, they have different kinds of players with their own play-styles which they find enjoyable in WvW, but both have their own kind of Dedicated players.

I think everyone wants to find a good fight even the Casuals among the Zergs and those in Guilds want to progress with their Guild whether it be out on the open field or in a GvG setting, but you also have those who want to avoid the Hardcore Stigma.

Anyway, I would love them to make the OS like a megaserver for both the dueling and GvG scene, for those who want nice even fights without interruption.

Would this prevent Guilds from Stacking on Servers in certain Tiers? I know that many Guilds migrated due to the ‘blobby’ style of the EU Gold League Tiers, do you really think Guilds would start spreading out before they quit the game?

You will still get trolls unless you make a seperate GvG Arena instance in PvP with larger player caps, I don’t know whether they have the Server capacity to support that though.

I also enjoy Theory Crafting as a ‘casual’ hobby of mine so many will feel it’s a limitation if you make a GvG map in sPvP, but going off topic again I agree with Liza about Balancing in WvW in general – so making it in sPvP might no be so bad.

Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.

(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

And you don’t experience the same lag when you’re on a WvW map at full capacity?

The Spvp server and WvW server are different, i’m pretty sure that every custom arena has specific resourse limit while WvW server mostly don’t have it so they run till max and then start lagging, or they could probably run on multiple server with load balacing but yeah i got no clue about their server backend, i’m sure they are 2 types of server or different limit for both server, example 1 server could run 20 custom arena

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: SkylightMoon.1980

SkylightMoon.1980

Just curious- if GvG is your thing, why not make a guild team for team pvp?

lol just proved you don’t know what gvg in gw2 is.

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Posted by: CrazyDuck.4610

CrazyDuck.4610

You are about a year+ too late, many GvG ideas have been mentioned in the forums before and Anet doesn’t want to do them. /enoughsaid

YouWish – Guard
DragonBrand – [Agg] Aggression

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Posted by: Grotesque.6480

Grotesque.6480

Definitely support the idea. Being able to GVG any guild during any matchup would be great and thus, spice up the game again.

Though, I honestly doubt ArenaNet is ever going to go with something to such an extend. I very well remember the interview with RPGamer where the devs acted like complete kittens when the question about GVG was brought up.

Team Aggression [TA]

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

You are about a year+ too late, many GvG ideas have been mentioned in the forums before and Anet doesn’t want to do them. /enoughsaid

Many Gvg idea weren’t douable without major Dev time investement, the short term solution would requide little time to make that’s why i think it’s viable

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Peterson.8345

Peterson.8345

awesome ideas Sam, however as previously mentioned by significant number of people here, even though the game is called guildwars (and not siegewars, which it is slowly but surely turning into), I am pretty sure we will not see any of them implemented into the game…
and while wvw community is very loyal to the game it is, in my opinion, the one which receives the least attention from developers (based on the number of bugs reported and still not fixed for a year now, on the contrary with pve-release/living world immediate fixing and repairing….)
also, even when devs do not like gvg that much, when there’s a big amount of players who enjoy this structured way of fights, they should do something about it

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Posted by: Amelia Knox.9362

Amelia Knox.9362

Well got a plan as well if nothing change to improve the current situation as well, with just player effort

[Dawn] Gandara
Guild Leader

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Posted by: Hamster.4861

Hamster.4861

Great Idea.

It’s so kitten hard to organize a GvG with a guild not in your matchup through EoTM. Lots of trouble involved right now.

Would love to see some of this post’s suggestions implemented.

Solutions to GvG arena and scene

in WvW

Posted by: GDavison.9605

GDavison.9605

Good ideas, maybe someone will pay attention.
Because I’m not fickle and think something will be acted upon because of this thread, I will make a suggestion …
Guilds that play for fights EU-wide organise certain dates of EoTM raiding (My suggestion is once or twice a week). Guilds you want to fight, you get on the same overflow as them. Although its a pain in the kitten , it’s 10x better than running around doing nothing for the boring match-ups.
In my eyes its the only potential solution to the problem of this game loosing guilds and players at the rate it is atm. About time the guilds that wish to continue on this game, take matters into their own hands.
I’m sure Sam and a few other guild leaders will help us organise this so it might be implemented pretty soon.

Yan
Leader of Driven By Fury [dF]
www.drivenbyfury.com

Solutions to GvG arena and scene

in WvW

Posted by: Sinbold.8723

Sinbold.8723

Just curious- if GvG is your thing, why not make a guild team for team pvp?

lol just proved you don’t know what gvg in gw2 is.

You are quite correct. My original small guild goes to the PvP lobby and plays team arena. In GW1, we GvG’d a LOT. We weren’t high ranked (or ranked at all for that matter), but we had fun. Our best memory is when we got matched up against a Spanish guild ranked #20 on the ladder and took them to overtime with the Guild Lords in the center of our Guild Hall. We lost, but barely, as their Lord was at about 5% health at the end of the match. They PM’d us and gave us a lot of compliments, which I thought was cool. A little while later, we even got some join requests from people that watched in observation mode. I saved my build as “Spanish Overtime”.

Anyway… Care to enlighten me on how it’s done? Number of people on each team, etc. It’d be greatly appreciated.