Guild Wars 2

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

Yeap, I missed CnD multiple times… and used teleport (since I think my stealth’s were down)

Backstab builds it depends… if it’s a 1v1..You won’t win..I’ll kill you and move along, However if you jump me while i’m fighting a large group of people..I’m pretty much screwed (along with most people)..

If you were D/P though you’d crap on me..that build eats P/D builds up very easily.

I’m D/D S/D.

Want to duel? If I win, you pay me the gem I paid to get there and pay me gems to get back to my server. If you win, I’ll give you 25 gold.

That depends, what server you on?

Its highly possible if you did win i couldn’t actually pay you at all.

edit

i checked the prices, I couldn’t actually pay you to get back, its 45 Gold to transfer back to the higher population servers, Though if you wait till night time I might be able to depending on server population.

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

So you agree what Most doesn’t imply all, Yet you still continue to argue that Class balance doesn’t matter in World vs World because its all about “points” and nothing else

Interesting idea you got there

grin

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

How about you don’t kitten Sword/Dagger over just to bring kittening Dagger/Dagger in line!?

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

So you agree what Most doesn’t imply all, Yet you still continue to argue that Class balance doesn’t matter in World vs World because its all about “points” and nothing else

Interesting idea you got there

grin

What does the definition of most have to do with any my posts about stealth or thieves? Your all over the place rofl.

You can’t take a post and then apply it to another post without seeing the context of that post you do this alot.

Lets continue though..

I have never said class balance doesn’t matter in WvW not once have I said that. I said class balance doesn’t matter in the scenarios presented in this thread. Your video with the camp (doesn’t matter) for example.

If WvW was all about just fighting players as you believe most players care about then you would have some valid arguments. That is not what the goal of the game mode is. No matter how many ways you slice the bread.

My point is simple that maybe the classes are balanced how Anet thinks they should be in the WvW setting. That is the side of the fence that I am on. I know what WvW is I may not play the goals or build trebs or zerg all the time but I still know what the goal of the game mode is. It doesn’t matter what you think it is or your assumption that the player base only cares about killing people. The intent of WvW is objectives and points.

Basically the scenarios presented in here would be like someone coming on the sPvP forums saying that something is broken cause they went into HoTM to duel a bunch of people and lost everytime to thieves when they 1v1 lol.

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

How about you don’t kitten Sword/Dagger over just to bring kittening Dagger/Dagger in line!?

D/D actually isn’t a huge CnD user compared to S/D and P/D…

P/D abused CnD the most, followed by S/D (though S/D isn’t nearly as oped as P/D)

If they were going to work on stealth, They’d have to be very careful on how they handle things.

I still think the Phase idea is the best one i’ve seen.

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

How about you don’t kitten Sword/Dagger over just to bring kittening Dagger/Dagger in line!?

How are the proposed change going to kitten over S/D??

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

Xsorus.2507:

Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players

Good thing we agree on the definition of most. Rofl I see we are getting somewhere. lol

So you agree what Most doesn’t imply all, Yet you still continue to argue that Class balance doesn’t matter in World vs World because its all about “points” and nothing else

Interesting idea you got there

grin

What does the definition of most have to do with any my posts about stealth or thieves? Your all over the place rofl.

You can’t take a post and then apply it to another post without seeing the context of that post you do this alot.

Lets continue though..

I have never said class balance doesn’t matter in WvW not once have I said that. I said class balance doesn’t matter in the scenarios presented in this thread. Your video with the camp (doesn’t matter) for example.

If WvW was all about just fighting players as you believe most players care about then you would have some valid arguments. That is not what the goal of the game mode is. No matter how many ways you slice the bread.

My point is simple that maybe the classes are balanced how Anet thinks they should be in the WvW setting. That is the side of the fence that I am on. I know what WvW is I may not play the goals or build trebs or zerg all the time but I still know what the goal of the game mode is. It doesn’t matter what you think it is or your assumption that the player base only cares about killing people. The intent of WvW is objectives and points.

Go back a few weeks when they said they would do a ratings reset. Why did so many people get upset about that if most of the WvW players don’t care about the WvW system?

A. Classes aren’t balanced in WvW, that’s why they continue to change them..even as recently as 2 days ago.

B. The scenario presented in this thread? What scenario? you made the video about me not defending the camp from being taken…You made the video about me not asking people to come zerg the already out gunned side..I never said anything about the Supply camp up until that point..I made the video to show how I can bloody stealth over and over again and kill multiple enemies while escaping..Just because your argument didn’t hold wait about Class balance, you can’t go back and change your original complaint on the video. You entire excuse for that has been “Well Class balance doesn’t matter cause you couldn’t stop them from taking a camp”

C. The Goal of the game? The Goal of the Game Mode is to have fun….We were going to make it about points then the people on TC/Devona’s shouldn’t even both playing right now because they’re to far behind to catch up in points…So I guess they wont’ be out there when I log in.

D. The fact that you don’t understand why most people got upset is rather funny..People didn’t get upset because they were losing their rankings..They got upset because the matches were almost balanced out, and all the ranking reset would of done would be putting high population servers against low population servers for a good ole thrashing…If they’d done it at the start..It would of been fine, but they were waiting till the last minute to do it when the issue was almost fixed.

Sifu.6527:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

How about you don’t kitten Sword/Dagger over just to bring kittening Dagger/Dagger in line!?

How are the proposed change going to kitten over S/D??

He’s talking to me about changing CnD, not your post.

Personally I find that P/D’s only as effective as how little condition removal the target has. I find that S/D gets caught in the crossfire of the D/D hate, a lot.

Lets pick up the threads, as there are no big good guilds on EB theres no use discussing that.

I still do not see any, not one good reason to nbot make drastical changes to stealth to counter culling and imbalanced fights/abuse.

killimandros.5087:

Lets pick up the threads, as there are no big good guilds on EB theres no use discussing that.

I still do not see any, not one good reason to nbot make drastical changes to stealth to counter culling and imbalanced fights/abuse.

The problem is all the stealth set that don’t have dagger as a main hand, have their effectiveness tied directly to how ofter they achieve stealth.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

jkctmc.8754:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

Some D/D ele’s can be tough, I know I’ve fought them kitten D and could kill some of them, Some of them though were frankly impossible to bring down, and while they couldn’t kill me, I couldn’t kill them.

P/D though i’ve not ran into that though, I’ve walked over all the D/D ele’s ive come across, It could also be because i’ve not ran into a large amount of good ones either, They’re a bit more FOTM now so with more numbers of them out, the more often you’ll run into crappier ones.

Dual.8953:

Personally I find that P/D’s only as effective as how little condition removal the target has. I find that S/D gets caught in the crossfire of the D/D hate, a lot.

S/D isn’t nearly as powerful as D/D and P/D are..

My first thief video was me doing S/D…I know what that build can and cannot do.

In fact I used D/D as a secondary set based on what S/D can’t do.

Roysten.3456:

The dread 30/30/30/30/30 Thieves. These threads throw them up a lot.

P/d condition don’t burst anyone. Glass cannon Backstab are one trick ponies that players seem to at last have worked out (3 months after spvp). Stealth backstab hybrids are slow and burst about 6k. S/d are shadowstepping half the time which is mistaken for stealth. None of them are perma stealth 1 shotting tanks that drown you in conditions with massive speed around the map. They can all be countered.

The reason you can make www vids of thieves owning the field is the same as the reason for vids of other classes doing the same. There are a lot of badly built, badly geared, badly played characters in www.

You forget that culling gives them the benefit of fulling training for stealth without having to trait for it. Funny how only thieves have thousands of those videos where the pwn people who need to “l2p.” First it was “permastealth is impossible.” Then it was “we’ll perma stealth is possible but it’s useless.” Then it was " we’ll permastealth is only effective because most players don’t know how to play." Lol. Any more ways to explain away and to excuse the most laughably overpowered mechanic in the history of MMOs.

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

Some D/D ele’s can be tough, I know I’ve fought them kitten D and could kill some of them, Some of them though were frankly impossible to bring down, and while they couldn’t kill me, I couldn’t kill them.

P/D though i’ve not ran into that though, I’ve walked over all the D/D ele’s ive come across, It could also be because i’ve not ran into a large amount of good ones either, They’re a bit more FOTM now so with more numbers of them out, the more often you’ll run into crappier ones.

It’s funny to see Thieves complain about the D/D Elementalist, as if they’re OP considering.

As a Bunker Thief I can’t kill a P/D Thief, but he can’t kill me either, and I generally force D/D Thieves to run, though I’ve had a few take my 22k HP, and 3300 Armor down to below 1k health in a short amount of time. I absolutely dominate D/D Elementalists, though I’ve had a few who were extremely hard to kill, or they ran.

As a Ranger, a P/D Thief is unkillable, and he can kill me. Because I’m also bunker build, if I time my dodges correctly, my pet eats up D/D Thieves, but a smart one isn’t going to stick around to die. I litterally eat D/D Elementalists with Shortbow, even though some fights can be long.

My Mesmer… Some days I feel invulnerable, other days I feel like I can’t stay alive. The only Thief that gives me trouble the most are P/D Thieves, and the occasional 20k in 2 second Thieves.

My Warrior… I blow people up in seconds, or they blow me up in seconds. I absolutely dominate bunker builds with this guy, especially D/D Elementalists.

My Guardian… I havn’t played since my builds have felt the nerfs to Guardian the most.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

jkctmc.8754:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

My Bunker Thief can kill d/d Elementalists, there is no reason the other builds can’t. Hell, I beat D/D Elementalists on my Ranger easier than I kill Warriors.

Some D/D ele’s can be tough, I know I’ve fought them kitten D and could kill some of them, Some of them though were frankly impossible to bring down, and while they couldn’t kill me, I couldn’t kill them.

P/D though i’ve not ran into that though, I’ve walked over all the D/D ele’s ive come across, It could also be because i’ve not ran into a large amount of good ones either, They’re a bit more FOTM now so with more numbers of them out, the more often you’ll run into crappier ones.

It’s funny to see Thieves complain about the D/D Elementalist, as if they’re OP considering.

As a Bunker Thief I can’t kill a P/D Thief, but he can’t kill me either, and I generally force D/D Thieves to run, though I’ve had a few take my 22k HP, and 3300 Armor down to below 1k health in a short amount of time. I absolutely dominate D/D Elementalists, though I’ve had a few who were extremely hard to kill, or they ran.

As a Ranger, a P/D Thief is unkillable, and he can kill me. Because I’m also bunker build, if I time my dodges correctly, my pet eats up D/D Thieves, but a smart one isn’t going to stick around to die. I litterally eat D/D Elementalists with Shortbow, even though some fights can be long.

My Mesmer… Some days I feel invulnerable, other days I feel like I can’t stay alive. The only Thief that gives me trouble the most are P/D Thieves, and the occasional 20k in 2 second Thieves.

My Warrior… I blow people up in seconds, or they blow me up in seconds. I absolutely dominate bunker builds with this guy, especially D/D Elementalists.

My Guardian… I havn’t played since my builds have felt the nerfs to Guardian the most.

Some P/D thieves i can kill on my Ranger, some will kill me though…I imagine after the patch I probably wouldn’t win this fight.

Need to run ranged pets to really have a chance vs P/D thief…. and i don’t usually.

Xsorus.2507:

A. Classes aren’t balanced in WvW, that’s why they continue to change them..even as recently as 2 days ago.

B. The scenario presented in this thread? What scenario? you made the video about me not defending the camp from being taken…You made the video about me not asking people to come zerg the already out gunned side..I never said anything about the Supply camp up until that point..I made the video to show how I can bloody stealth over and over again and kill multiple enemies while escaping..Just because your argument didn’t hold wait about Class balance, you can’t go back and change your original complaint on the video. You entire excuse for that has been “Well Class balance doesn’t matter cause you couldn’t stop them from taking a camp”

C. The Goal of the game? The Goal of the Game Mode is to have fun….We were going to make it about points then the people on TC/Devona’s shouldn’t even both playing right now because they’re to far behind to catch up in points…So I guess they wont’ be out there when I log in.

D. The fact that you don’t understand why most people got upset is rather funny..People didn’t get upset because they were losing their rankings..They got upset because the matches were almost balanced out, and all the ranking reset would of done would be putting high population servers against low population servers for a good ole thrashing…If they’d done it at the start..It would of been fine, but they were waiting till the last minute to do it when the issue was almost fixed.

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

But hey, there’s a march patch that’s going to supposedly fix culling. Let’s continue our talk then and see if you still have problems with thieves.

I dunno if this has been said already since this thread is hella long and Im too busy playing gw2 to read about it but as far as I can tell, I believe that the thief is a means of combatting zerging. I mean, you have no idea how many threads Ive come across complaining about how the devs keep making zerging the only way not to get your kitten handed to you in wvw. Well, here is the perfect anti zerging toy, the thief, capable of massive crowd control and is better dealt with by utilizing tactics rather than numbers. There you go.

problem Cries is, stealth affects the vision of smaller groups more than the zerg. So if a small zergbuster squad uses thieves stealth, due to them being less num,bers, they render faster than a zerg using any stealth, so its not a zerg buster, its a zerg booster. The more people the more rendering issues.

Notice how Frank still keeps fighting after Chong Li activated blinding powder…

http://youtu.be/k0YDuSLXcX8?t=4m52s

That is how you deal with thieves you can’t see, it’s that easy.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

A. Classes aren’t balanced in WvW, that’s why they continue to change them..even as recently as 2 days ago.

B. The scenario presented in this thread? What scenario? you made the video about me not defending the camp from being taken…You made the video about me not asking people to come zerg the already out gunned side..I never said anything about the Supply camp up until that point..I made the video to show how I can bloody stealth over and over again and kill multiple enemies while escaping..Just because your argument didn’t hold wait about Class balance, you can’t go back and change your original complaint on the video. You entire excuse for that has been “Well Class balance doesn’t matter cause you couldn’t stop them from taking a camp”

C. The Goal of the game? The Goal of the Game Mode is to have fun….We were going to make it about points then the people on TC/Devona’s shouldn’t even both playing right now because they’re to far behind to catch up in points…So I guess they wont’ be out there when I log in.

D. The fact that you don’t understand why most people got upset is rather funny..People didn’t get upset because they were losing their rankings..They got upset because the matches were almost balanced out, and all the ranking reset would of done would be putting high population servers against low population servers for a good ole thrashing…If they’d done it at the start..It would of been fine, but they were waiting till the last minute to do it when the issue was almost fixed.

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

There is no initial damage from Poison Arrow, it creates a field basically.

Same with Caltrops.

Mesmer’s i don’t generally have trouble with by the way….They’re actually one of the easier classes to kill for P/D cause you have lots of free clones to CnD off of.

Granted that doesn’t mean I couldn’t die to one.

I think I was knocked back a few times in that video, I’d have to rewatch it… The very beginning though didn’t really have a mesmer.

you’re right about them not doing damage though at that spot..But really only the Necro could do anything as the Ele died multiple times.

IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

There is no initial damage from Poison Arrow, it creates a field basically.

Same with Caltrops.

Mesmer’s i don’t generally have trouble with by the way….They’re actually one of the easier classes to kill for P/D cause you have lots of free clones to CnD off of.

Granted that doesn’t mean I couldn’t die to one.

I think I was knocked back a few times in that video, I’d have to rewatch it… The very beginning though didn’t really have a mesmer.

you’re right about them not doing damage though at that spot..But really only the Necro could do anything as the Ele died multiple times.

When I played P/D, Mesmers were really easy too but it’s because they don’t know how to fight. My Mesmer uses condition swap sigils on each weapon-set and food that clears condition each heal. The heal itself reflects projectiles. I don’t even use clones/phants just stand there and auto attack with GS and dodge C&D when you get close. Every clone is instantly popped with something. It’s laughable really how easy it is. If they refuge I with focus pull or GS push them out after a couple seconds for them to blow dodges.

I don’t use all the condition swap/clear stuff just to fight P/D either, it’s just because it’s a hole in any shatter build that I wanted to fill.

I played a P/D thief at 80 for a solid 2 months so that of course helps a lot. I don’t think people not fully understanding what they are fighting is cause for a nerf.

As far as initial damage I meant the first tick, they would need to change those two skills specifically.

jportell.2197:

IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.

He could be using a build besides the current ones I see (that Sword one where they teleport to you and do that silly channel) and the Confusion ones.

The sword one is a joke to kill, cause they are predictable and have no condition removal really of note..

The Confusion ones can be dangerous, But are fairly easy to kill, They just take a while cause you’re having to constantly stop attacking cause of Confusion.

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

There is no initial damage from Poison Arrow, it creates a field basically.

Same with Caltrops.

Mesmer’s i don’t generally have trouble with by the way….They’re actually one of the easier classes to kill for P/D cause you have lots of free clones to CnD off of.

Granted that doesn’t mean I couldn’t die to one.

I think I was knocked back a few times in that video, I’d have to rewatch it… The very beginning though didn’t really have a mesmer.

you’re right about them not doing damage though at that spot..But really only the Necro could do anything as the Ele died multiple times.

When I played P/D, Mesmers were really easy too but it’s because they don’t know how to fight. My Mesmer uses condition swap sigils on each weapon-set and food that clears condition each heal. The heal itself reflects projectiles. I don’t even use clones/phants just stand there and auto attack with GS and dodge C&D when you get close. Every clone is instantly popped with something. It’s laughable really how easy it is. If they refuge I with focus pull or GS push them out after a couple seconds for them to blow dodges.

I don’t use all the condition swap/clear stuff just to fight P/D either, it’s just because it’s a hole in any shatter build that I wanted to fill.

I played a P/D thief at 80 for a solid 2 months so that of course helps a lot. I don’t think people not fully understanding what they are fighting is cause for a nerf.

As far as initial damage I meant the first tick, they would need to change those two skills specifically.

i don’t see how that build can kill a P/D thief, granted i’ve not played Mesmer since beta so I don’t have a huge amount of knowledge on them.

edit

They could add a small initial hit DD to both effects and that would fix that problem

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

edit there’s a huge difference between crying for class balance and just hating on thieves because you (yourself) can’t fight against one with a differing class

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

A. Classes balances happens for who knows what reason, sPvP, PvE, maybe WvW but doubt that WvW 1v1s is where they make their real decisions. The only major thing that really did for WvW was take out annoying consumables and put a CD on crit chance consumables.

B. If you play poker, and you made a meta-game where whoever had the most 7s that game was the victor, you’d still lose because that’s not what the game is about. If you play a tower defense game and all you cared about was getting kills and not protecting the towers, you would lose the game. If you hop onto WvW and kill people and fail to take camps, you lost the game. Class balance or not, it doesn’t affect the type of game at hand.

C. Have you not considered that most people who WvW considers taking keeps, getting points as having fun? There are quite a number of people/guilds who actually take it seriously. I still see zergs or mini groups of them roaming about trying to take points because they still care to fight. I’m sorry that you don’t feel that way—but seriously don’t queue up for WvW if you aren’t going to actually play the WvW game. Commanders would hate people like you unless you are scouting at the least.

You would probably see more posters in this thread if it actually mattered, but it’s just you and few others really complaining, while oZii and I are at least trying to aid you if coming to this easy reckoning that maybe class balance doesn’t matter when

1. You can use food buffs
2. There is no lvl req to enter WvW
3. You can run into any x number of people at anytime. 1v1s are not a gurantee
4. Killing people does not add to points
5. There is not equipment req to enter Wvw (you can run in all whites) heck, as a thief, even if you wreck 10 people and get away with it, you don’t even know if they have any exotic gear whatsoever.
6. Escaping a battle does nothing in WvW, it just doesn’t satisfy your own self-fish desire to kill them
7. You have access to banner buffs/outmanned buffs/gem buffs

When did class balance = thieves nerfed. I agree with buffing other classes maybe. But it seems very childish to say “Oh yeah, I run x/x and trait x/x/x/x/x and can pwn class y with y/y even if he’s bunker”—-“Nuh uh, I can beat you blah blah blah” We will never know unless they open up a real deathmatch pvp realm which WvW is NOT. No matter what you say, that’s not what it is. Anet doesn’t have to cater to people who seriously needs to just L2P or man up.

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.

If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…

Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..

By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers

They should advertise that

Rofl..

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

There is no initial damage from Poison Arrow, it creates a field basically.

Same with Caltrops.

Mesmer’s i don’t generally have trouble with by the way….They’re actually one of the easier classes to kill for P/D cause you have lots of free clones to CnD off of.

Granted that doesn’t mean I couldn’t die to one.

I think I was knocked back a few times in that video, I’d have to rewatch it… The very beginning though didn’t really have a mesmer.

you’re right about them not doing damage though at that spot..But really only the Necro could do anything as the Ele died multiple times.

When I played P/D, Mesmers were really easy too but it’s because they don’t know how to fight. My Mesmer uses condition swap sigils on each weapon-set and food that clears condition each heal. The heal itself reflects projectiles. I don’t even use clones/phants just stand there and auto attack with GS and dodge C&D when you get close. Every clone is instantly popped with something. It’s laughable really how easy it is. If they refuge I with focus pull or GS push them out after a couple seconds for them to blow dodges.

I don’t use all the condition swap/clear stuff just to fight P/D either, it’s just because it’s a hole in any shatter build that I wanted to fill.

I played a P/D thief at 80 for a solid 2 months so that of course helps a lot. I don’t think people not fully understanding what they are fighting is cause for a nerf.

As far as initial damage I meant the first tick, they would need to change those two skills specifically.

i don’t see how that build can kill a P/D thief, granted i’ve not played Mesmer since beta so I don’t have a huge amount of knowledge on them.

edit

They could add a small initial hit DD to both effects and that would fix that problem

It’s really simple. Zerk Mesmer auto vs P/D thief’s auto. Without stealth P/D doesn’t clear conditions nor heal well. They get maybe 2-3 free stealths depending on build, BP, the heal and maybe a steal+C&D combo. Openers are countered by reflect/distortion or decoy/MassInvis stealth. Refuge counted by GS push or focus pull. All this while every 10 sec whatever bleeds I have clear off me and swap to them and every heal/reflect I clear the entire bleed stack every 15 if needed.

The key is to not use clones and kite/avoid C&D. I’ll throw out a Bersker when it’s up and instantly shatter it. Stuff like that.

Apparently the izerker has suffered a damage ninja nerf in this patch.

jportell.2197:

Apparently the izerker has suffered a damage ninja nerf in this patch.

All clones/phants are bugged in WvW right now, none have weapons. They run up to stuff and smack them with their fists. I think it’s actually calculating their damage with no weapon equiped :/ It’s also not doing a whirl finisher. Pretty sure this is a bug and not a nerf.

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.

If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…

Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..

By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers

They should advertise that

Rofl..

They took the idea of DAOC, but obviously it has it’s own unique qualities, in so many ways. I’ve never played DAOC, but I am just going to jump the gun and say that GW2’s gameplay is different so the PvP balancing in DAOC can’t apply to GW2, unless you literally had all the GW2 mechanics point by point in that game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about solutions.

My view is anything goes in open world, so don’t be off guard or don’t be so down when it happens. If you get one-shotted, you have to figure out why. Was it because your traits/equipment were low or all zerk? Was it because the class was in fact overpowered? Was it avoidable? Could you have stunbroken or invulnerable or distort out? Can you do anything about it? —- You aren’t asking those questions first nor do you give examples so I find your passion for thief nerfing moot. But seriously what are we talking about here? Stealth or being one-shotted or both? Make your point clear and quiting bringing other possible issues into it.

I am not making an excuse when I mention culling. Obviously it’s an issue. If you want to say culling isn’t an issue then come guest to SBI and let’s duke it out in the Mists where it isn’t. Choose a thief, and I will do my best to show you how any class other than thief can still handle them with whatever game tactic you choose with him. And if I beat you with at least one of them consistently, go to a corner and starting using your brain before coming here with sarcastic/know-it-all/inconsistent comments.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.

If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…

Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..

By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers

They should advertise that

Rofl..

They took the idea of DAOC, but obviously it has it’s own unique qualities, in so many ways. I’ve never played DAOC, but I am just going to jump the gun and say that GW2’s gameplay is different so the PvP balancing in DAOC can’t apply to GW2, unless you literally had all the GW2 mechanics point by point in that game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about solutions.

My view is anything goes in open world, so don’t be off guard or don’t be so down when it happens. If you get one-shotted, you have to figure out why. Was it because your traits/equipment were low or all zerk? Was it because the class was in fact overpowered? Was it avoidable? Could you have stunbroken or invulnerable or distort out? Can you do anything about it? —- You aren’t asking those questions first nor do you give examples so I find your passion for thief nerfing moot. But seriously what are we talking about here? Stealth or being one-shotted or both? Make your point clear and quiting bringing other possible issues into it.

I am not making an excuse when I mention culling. Obviously it’s an issue. If you want to say culling isn’t an issue then come guest to SBI and let’s duke it out in the Mists where it isn’t. Choose a thief, and I will do my best to show you how any class other than thief can still handle them with whatever game tactic you choose with him. And if I beat you with at least one of them consistently, go to a corner and starting using your brain before coming here with sarcastic/know-it-all/inconsistent comments.

A. they copied most of DAOC, DAOC’s Relics were basically the “Winning” of that game vs match points. They’re copying it even more by doing the Realm Rank system next patch.

B. I’m not sure you’re understanding what i’m saying..I play a thief….I think Stealth is overpowered….I’m commenting on the fact if I could one shot people it would be overpowered, and thus should be changed… just like Stealth should be changed….Even though it has nothing to do with “points” in world vs world. I’m thinking you think I’m complaining about thieves because I died to one or something..which isn’t the case.

C. I’m on SBI mate….As for your post about beating a Thief? I’m sure there are specs out there that can kill most thieves 1v1 (I know i can kill them on my Ranger 1v1 if they’re certain specs and they decide to stay and fight) hell.. the spec i’m using P/D is countered by other thieves using D/P… So not really sure what you’re saying there…If a Thief generally dies in a 1v1 he dies because he screwed up..or because he just didn’t want to run away.

P/d thief vs shatter Mesmer. Theif can’t die if he’s smart, same as always. Have to hope he hangs around at about 60% health so you can burst him down at once. Bring dat torch for condition cleanse.

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus.2507:

Stiv.1820:

Xsorus what you are pointing out is that the Thief is one of the best, probably the best prof at killing hordes of bads. That’s all there is to it. I can beat any P/D thief on my Mesmer 1 on 1. No chance for them. If there are 10 bads around me giving them free C&D then it’s more of a pain in the kitten but still. No one is knocking you down. No one is even using a knockback or swinging around the downed players. You are fighting terribles and you know it.

Changes I’d agree with are initial damage from Poison Arrow and the Utility version of trops breaks stealth but subsequent ticks and traited dodge trops would not.

There is no initial damage from Poison Arrow, it creates a field basically.

Same with Caltrops.

Mesmer’s i don’t generally have trouble with by the way….They’re actually one of the easier classes to kill for P/D cause you have lots of free clones to CnD off of.

Granted that doesn’t mean I couldn’t die to one.

I think I was knocked back a few times in that video, I’d have to rewatch it… The very beginning though didn’t really have a mesmer.

you’re right about them not doing damage though at that spot..But really only the Necro could do anything as the Ele died multiple times.

When I played P/D, Mesmers were really easy too but it’s because they don’t know how to fight. My Mesmer uses condition swap sigils on each weapon-set and food that clears condition each heal. The heal itself reflects projectiles. I don’t even use clones/phants just stand there and auto attack with GS and dodge C&D when you get close. Every clone is instantly popped with something. It’s laughable really how easy it is. If they refuge I with focus pull or GS push them out after a couple seconds for them to blow dodges.

I don’t use all the condition swap/clear stuff just to fight P/D either, it’s just because it’s a hole in any shatter build that I wanted to fill.

I played a P/D thief at 80 for a solid 2 months so that of course helps a lot. I don’t think people not fully understanding what they are fighting is cause for a nerf.

As far as initial damage I meant the first tick, they would need to change those two skills specifically.

i don’t see how that build can kill a P/D thief, granted i’ve not played Mesmer since beta so I don’t have a huge amount of knowledge on them.

edit

They could add a small initial hit DD to both effects and that would fix that problem

It’s really simple. Zerk Mesmer auto vs P/D thief’s auto. Without stealth P/D doesn’t clear conditions nor heal well. They get maybe 2-3 free stealths depending on build, BP, the heal and maybe a steal+C&D combo. Openers are countered by reflect/distortion or decoy/MassInvis stealth. Refuge counted by GS push or focus pull. All this while every 10 sec whatever bleeds I have clear off me and swap to them and every heal/reflect I clear the entire bleed stack every 15 if needed.

The key is to not use clones and kite/avoid C&D. I’ll throw out a Bersker when it’s up and instantly shatter it. Stuff like that.

you realize i can apply that 5 stack of bleeds close to every 4 seconds right?

you’re also not guaranteed to swap that bleed as well….Since i’ll be doing Weakness/Poison/Vul as well.

you do have the right idea though, Avoid sending your pets so they can’t do C&D

so it might possibly work.

Acelerion.6820:

P/d thief vs shatter Mesmer. Theif can’t die if he’s smart, same as always. Have to hope he hangs around at about 60% health so you can burst him down at once. Bring dat torch for condition cleanse.

Or use reflect heal with con cleanse food and sigils of generosity. Mesmer con cleanse sucks anyway so it’s not wasted. 90% of Thieves will SR to bail, focus pull to your feet then MI (decoy too if up)+Wrack+BF and you have a dead thief rendering at your feet.

Xsorus.2507:

A. they copied most of DAOC, DAOC’s Relics were basically the “Winning” of that game vs match points. They’re copying it even more by doing the Realm Rank system next patch.

B. I’m not sure you’re understanding what i’m saying..I play a thief….I think Stealth is overpowered….I’m commenting on the fact if I could one shot people it would be overpowered, and thus should be changed… just like Stealth should be changed….Even though it has nothing to do with “points” in world vs world. I’m thinking you think I’m complaining about thieves because I died to one or something..which isn’t the case.

C. I’m on SBI mate….As for your post about beating a Thief? I’m sure there are specs out there that can kill most thieves 1v1 (I know i can kill them on my Ranger 1v1 if they’re certain specs and they decide to stay and fight) hell.. the spec i’m using P/D is countered by other thieves using D/P… So not really sure what you’re saying there…If a Thief generally dies in a 1v1 he dies because he screwed up..or because he just didn’t want to run away.

A. I mean, I’ve never played DAOC so I believe you. But given that the realm rank system hasn’t been released yet, my view still stand that balancing around small fights is not important. If it comes out and kills matter on a bigger scale, then sure, let’s consider some more balancing but still don’t think stealth minus culling should be an issue.

B. I think you should use stealth of an example of why it’s overpowered instead of another overpowered example and saying stealth is just like that IMHO. And the 3 seconds of reveal or bursting or shooting or whatever out of stealth is the primetime to strike a thief, and he’s terribly vulnerable. Even more so when he think he’s safe and you use aoes to get him out.

Facts:
1. Theives can only cloak using the stealth heal, blinding powder, and refuge. Using CnD requires hitting the opponent, so if you dodge CnD, it wastes their initiative and they do not cloak unless other utilities are under cooldown.
2. Thief will be knocked out of stealth if he’s hit outside of the shadow refuge circle. Most thieves will have this under utility. Prepare some good cc’s for that scenario because most likely thieves will not have access to stability.
3. If you shoot at a thief before he cloaks, it will still hit him when he cloaks. i.e. Using the rangers multi-shot can finish off a thief if he tries to leave in a jam.

C. I guess we have different views about fighting so unless we agree, this argument will really be looping for more threads. But I’ll leave it at this, I believe that in this type of game. Mess ups count. I don’t believe in ‘the perfect’ game where the thief and opposing party pulls off perfect tactics and one or the other comes out on top. I believe in the average joe which is what wvw makes up of mostly ( I assume). And I believe the average joe makes mistakes. And also, you cannot discount the opposing party being better which causes more ‘mistakes’ to happen for the thief. I don’t believe you can really claim that the best thief can always win a fight otherwise he’s doing it wrong, unless we have a real pvp system where you can fight 1s, no one will ever know. It’s only pseudo scenarios you are thinking of given your experiences. I could easily say, if I do not win as a d/d ele, I’m doing it wrong or such and such and give my ‘legitimate reasons’ but as long as there’s not proof, you could easily say differently til trumpets sound. And another view I have diffeernt from yours is when an enemy is running away from a fight—it’s a victory. If I was on a goodCC class, if they come back, I’ll keep on fighting them until they mess up because from ‘my’ experiences, I never die on a class (non-thief) against thieves.

Anyways, I hope there’s a compromise for whatever you are looking for, just wanted to provide some feedback on the opposing side of a stealth nerf.

Who are you people that can spend the entire day writing endless walls of text on this topic?

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

No l2 read one of the ways you get World XP is by killing people. You don’t get points. (guess your gonna flip that part and say points on your WorldXP bar is what you meant lol)

You get abilities like do more damage to NPC, take less damage from siege, take less damage from NPC, do more damage from siege. Since you find fun in roaming around killing people none of this means jack to you cause your not about to man siege right? Thats zerging and xsorus doesn’t do zerging neither do other people that play WvW.

So you will be roaming around with a title that says Siegemaster, or NPC Killa and John the Mesmer who zergs it up daily will probably have the same title as you. So nobody is gonna know if you or John the Mesmer is the leet roamer!

The difference is John the Mesmer will be doing more damage on the the arrow cart killing people and having fun, probably be asked specifically to get on the arrow cart since he does more damage heck he might even feel wanted or needed more. You will be roaming around having fun with a title not doing more damage on a arrow cart. You can always make a video of you roaming though for views. I’ll go subscribe to your youtube now k.

Kills = points rofl. That was a good one made me chuckle. Comprehension skills are in full display in this thread.

Stiv.1820:

Acelerion.6820:

P/d thief vs shatter Mesmer. Theif can’t die if he’s smart, same as always. Have to hope he hangs around at about 60% health so you can burst him down at once. Bring dat torch for condition cleanse.

Or use reflect heal with con cleanse food and sigils of generosity. Mesmer con cleanse sucks anyway so it’s not wasted. 90% of Thieves will SR to bail, focus pull to your feet then MI (decoy too if up)+Wrack+BF and you have a dead thief rendering at your feet.

Shadow refuge is large enough to dodge roll from on side to the other. On my thief 2 rolls is about all that’s required to lock in stealth. Pulls/knock backs don’t work on better thieves anymore really. Its a guaranteed get out of jail.

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m sorry, i can’t take anyone seriously who thinks Class balance isn’t important in a PvP game because you get points from taking Objectives.

I imagine it’ll be quite amusing when you realize next month that a Realm Rank system is coming into the game and the way you get points is from taking objectives and killing people

But hey, Killing people in PvP isn’t important at all….Its only about that little score a the top grin

edit

By the way, telling someone not to queue for World vs World because you think World vs World is only about how much you can zerg the opposing side down is hilarious….

I personally blame it on the WoW generation…If you had the gaul to come out with something like that while playing DAOC you’d be laughed off your respective realm.

I’ve never played WoW. -_- Nor will I ever. I play mostly fighting games, and trust me when I say, I know what freaking balance is. Stealth is not a big issue. And the only thing I’m trying to convey is that WvW is not catered for PvPers so don’t expect it to be totally PvP balanced. Apparently, all you care about is trying to see WvW as a DAOC potential or whatever the heck that is. It’s not, killing people does matter, but not the way you are describing, which is small petty fights.

And quit twisting my words around. Balance is important, but stealth is not imbalanced. It’s more potent due to culling which will be attempted to be addressed in March. You are directing balance towards a huge nerf to theives when it isn’t even a class issue.

WvW is designed after DAOC, and in DAOC class balance was just as important as it is here…Cause Class Balance is always important when you consider PvP in a game.

If I could one shot people, and escape freely, You’d consider that a problem…Because it would be broken…

Also this culling excuse you guys keep using it, Let me just say, That’s not going to fly in a month when they remove Culling, so i suggest you start working up another excuse..Because I have a thief, I fight thieves….I know what BS that excuse is..

By the way, I love that you believe WvW is not catered to PvPers

They should advertise that

Rofl..

They took the idea of DAOC, but obviously it has it’s own unique qualities, in so many ways. I’ve never played DAOC, but I am just going to jump the gun and say that GW2’s gameplay is different so the PvP balancing in DAOC can’t apply to GW2, unless you literally had all the GW2 mechanics point by point in that game. Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges when talking about solutions.

My view is anything goes in open world, so don’t be off guard or don’t be so down when it happens. If you get one-shotted, you have to figure out why. Was it because your traits/equipment were low or all zerk? Was it because the class was in fact overpowered? Was it avoidable? Could you have stunbroken or invulnerable or distort out? Can you do anything about it? —- You aren’t asking those questions first nor do you give examples so I find your passion for thief nerfing moot. But seriously what are we talking about here? Stealth or being one-shotted or both? Make your point clear and quiting bringing other possible issues into it.

I am not making an excuse when I mention culling. Obviously it’s an issue. If you want to say culling isn’t an issue then come guest to SBI and let’s duke it out in the Mists where it isn’t. Choose a thief, and I will do my best to show you how any class other than thief can still handle them with whatever game tactic you choose with him. And if I beat you with at least one of them consistently, go to a corner and starting using your brain before coming here with sarcastic/know-it-all/inconsistent comments.

Thief dps is nerfed in Spvp vs WvWvW.

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.

jportell.2197:

IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.

There is always a counter.

Here’s a start.

Rune of Melandru + Veggie Pizza will kitten their DPS so badly. Reducing their 7 sec bleed tick to just 2 sec. Congratz, you just reduce their DPS by 60-75%.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

I said I wasn’t going to reply anymore, but one thing bugs me, who is most of us and most thieves? I don’t think you can make such a claim, only Anet can.

Most players have thief Alts, lol. Secondly, there are many thieves who have posted that agree with me.

Columba.9730:

It’s a nice excuse to claim that thieves aren’t overpowered by stating that WvWvW is only about taking objectives. If this were true, why do we get badges for killing other players? So now those who cling to the current overpowered stealth mechanic have argued: 1. Permastealth is impossible; 2. Ok it’s possible but useless; 3. Ok it’s useful but it only works against bad players; 4. Ok it works against all players but WvWvW is only about taking objectives so it doesn’t matter that thieves are overpowered in 1 v 1 fights.

Most of us, and most thieves agree that stealth in its current incarnation is highly imbalancing in WvWvW. Why else did anet nerf the heck out of thief dps in Spvp if thieves were considered balanced? It just doesn’t hang together.

So your post here opens with the highly imbalance of stealth and then you make 4 bullet points about what you feel is a “highly imbalanced mechanic”.

Then you make a reference to thieves dps being nerfed in sPvP. Something just doesn’t hang together.

Also @xsorus

I just looked at the change to guard that you spoke of in the patch notes.

I don’t know alot about rangers but my guess they made that change because rangers could kill siege on top of keeps with their pets using guard.

That change has more to do with killing siege solo than killing players. Which tells me they don’t want the objectives that nobody cares about(as you stated) to be destroyed by a lone ranger.