Guild Wars 2

I’m going to hold my opinion until I try the new map, but not hopeful.

So i see a lot of random hate on the forum regarding the new map and personally i disagree with most of it.

I honestly can’t see any reason to dislike the new map unless you enjoy roaming around in a brainless zerg not paying much attention, Lets take a look at things.

Ledges ledges ledges. Ok so theres a few ledges in the new map that you’ll probably die to should you get knocked off, This is 1 keep and it’s nothing new. Hills has always had ledges that could instakill you. The bridges make for great chokepoints combined with the stability change you now have to think for yourselfs (kitten that’s hard right?). You won’t be able to rely on your 30 gaurdians who can give you perma stability anymore. Suddenly siegeing requires slightly more skill.

ITS LIKE SKYHAMMER OR EOTM WTF ANET, you might say. It’s not at all. Skyhammer and Eotm are floating, meaning you can basically be knocked off anywhere and everywhere. Not only that but you go directly back to spawn (Eotm.) So one missplay causes you to go back to spawn. The new map allows allies to res you. If you bothered to get all the shrines you won’t even die!

MORE PVE?!?! This one comes up a lot. Fights that require attention =/= more PvE. Smart players can now use the lord to their advantage when defending and have to be more on their toes when attacking with defenders. Currently once your through the inner gate it’s pretty safe to say theirs not enough defenders and you can DPS the lord down, whilst ignoring them because your AoE buffs will keep you alive from their damage. With the changes to lords you’ll have to use a different strategy. Defenders can use stuff such as the air prison to burst down people who got separated from the zerg and attackers can slot anti stealth skills to burst down the ogre lord quicker. If you don’t want to think about what to do in certain situations i can see why you would think this is more PvE but it’s not. It just requires you to actually play and think for yourself.

WUT ABOUT THE DINOSAUR DUDE THOUGH? Well they said that havoc groups will be strong here, meaning the dude with the powercore probably isn’t that strong. The orb was a really good mechanic in the old maps. It just got abused by exploiters. It brings a chase and run aspect to WvW which is really fun. Objective based pvp is almost always more intense than deathmatch. I highly doubt the enemy team will just allow you to casually stroll in, 100b the dino and walk off with the power core. If anything an event like this FORCES PvP as people cannot sit in a keep on a cannon.

WHAT ABOUT THE FANCY SHRINES, YOU HAVE THAT IN EOTM! Eotm is a place to queue when WvW is full, That and people karma train it because it doesn’t affect your servers score. Currently in WvW towers and camps serve close to no purpose. Sure camps upgrade objectives but beyond that theres no reason to not just cap everything back before the point tick. With the new mechanics it gives the towers a reason to be capped. Mobility is one thing that is a big advantage in WvW, having certain towers in the new map will provide a much bigger advantage now. People will use more tactics when capping, rather than just attack the closest objective. Currently if you attack briar it doesn’t help you in attacking bay unless you want to treb. With the new map you can take a tower and force the enemy zerg to walk a long way to get back to their keep and defend. That being said if you REALLY can’t stand slightly more challenging lords then EB is always there and maps will surely be on rotation. Options are good.

I THINK THEY NEED TO TEST FULL MAP FIGHTS. Personally i think they’re trying to steer away from 200 man fights and that’s what the updates seem aimed at. You’ll be punished by air turrets if you just turn your brain off and follow the zerg.

The new map seems to try to discourage mindless zerging without having players feel punished for seeing other players. (Something Anet always wanted to accomplish, but is difficult in this situation.)

Will it? Who knows. I personally think it’s a step in the right direction though. The map is much more than i expected and i can’t wait to roam around on it.

Thanks for the great insight into a great map!

Does anyone else have anything positive to say?

Quick question on this, as I missed the stream. Someone said to be that they’ll be replacing the three existing borderlands with one version of this new map, leaving two maps (this + EB) instead of four. Has this actually been said?

Donari.5237:

I found a site that has the whole presentation in a video as well:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-03-12-first-gameplay-of-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-world-vs-world-desert-borderlands-map
(video at the bottom)
And in the closing video, 34 minutes in to the whole thing, it looks like a … cow? … gets trebucheted at a wall.

The cow is nothing new. It’s the 2nd mode for the Trebuchet in which throws a toxicly poisoned cow at an area to create a poison cloud. Investing Mastery Points into it will cause the cloud to also eat away carried supply as well. Very useful in prolonged siege defenses when enemies are trying to build siege engines and dig in position.

While I was scared WvW would go a bit too PvE, I’m actually quite happy with what they showed.

Indeed the boss-like mechanic of the lords might make a zerg slower (only for a time I assume) because they won’t be able to simply melt the lord’s life. After all, even if the current tower lords can take huge damages from their own weapon thanks to guardians and mesmers, they simply got killed by huge zergs. Now it’ll add a bit of variety.

Also the DoomRay event can be quite enjoyable if, like me, you are on a non-zerg server (the French are hard to understand, especially when they refuse to fight fire with fire) and you sometimes need a hand to flip the map.

The bonuses from the shrines are tremendous, at last something more useful than bloodlust. I really wanna see the tactics we can put in place! Plus, the terrain (and the stability patch) will allow less zerg and more tactical spirit.

So far, so good. Keep on the good work!

Edit: so far, I do hope (way too much) that the “you might see alpine back” means we will some day get 3 different BL… Naaah I’m just dreaming too hard!

Joshhh.2076:

Quick question on this, as I missed the stream. Someone said to be that they’ll be replacing the three existing borderlands with one version of this new map, leaving two maps (this + EB) instead of four. Has this actually been said?

I haven’t heard it, but this would be a real gain, given that 75% of all teams have problem filling two maps.

Great, jumping and crap to fall off of. OSHA will not be happy about this work environment.

All stairs should have rails,… kitten!

Nothing wrong with how it looks, once again the designers made a very good looking map. But events on a bl map? why…

I don’t understand the issue with the “pve” that some people are complaining over. You say you want them to remove pve, but then what is there? Towers with no guards that enemies can walk into and instantly cap? Or a boring flat map like the area in OS with endless fights that grow stale after 1 day?

The new map looks fun and anything that helps to try and move away from the full map zergs we have today is a positive imo. Pretty much all I do is roam now (with the occasional zerging on my guard) and being able to have these smaller objectives that mean something overall for the rest of the server I’m on is great.

the new map look so much more fun and has interesting levels, mechanics, new tactics.

looks like it will be more fun then the current zergling zergs all day long

Congrats Anet, you succesfully managed to ignore the WvW/GvG community and do precisely the opposite.

How to kitten up your game even more

I think it looks amazing, but wished they would add EOTM to the ppt rotation as well with the older map. I’m not too worried about the PvE elements we’ll still have plenty of fights.

This new BL looks amazing. GvG aficionados and karma trainers already have the very open, plain BL and EB to have huge fights and flip objectives rapidly. This new map looks like a lot of fun for roamers/small groups.

- Extremely powerful, easy to take objectives. The shrines will probably be a constant battleground between small skilled groups, since zergs can’t pass every five minutes to make sure the shrine is still in their favor. Plus these bonuses: perma stealth to impact the queue of a zerg and disappear in the mist, jumping off cliffs, etc.

- Choke points and smaller accessible area. Since towers will block access to other points on the map, you’ll have to run less to find foes.

- The big event in the middle. Granted, this event seems a bit overpowered. Still, to complete it, if Anet is correct, the zerg strategy will not hold. It will force players to actually fight! And since these power cores look like bundles, it maybe the end of the cheesiness of just running away with your GS leaps when you’re engaged, since you would have to drop your power core.

I really can’t wait to try this out. And if I’m wrong and this map turns out to be yet another zerg fest, well, I’ll just go back to EB and the alpine BL. They are just adding stuff: if we don’t like it, we’re just not gonna play it.

x Charlie.4820:

So i see a lot of random hate on the forum regarding the new map and personally i disagree with most of it.

I honestly can’t see any reason to dislike the new map unless you enjoy roaming around in a brainless zerg not paying much attention, Lets take a look at things.

Ledges ledges ledges. Ok so theres a few ledges in the new map that you’ll probably die to should you get knocked off, This is 1 keep and it’s nothing new. Hills has always had ledges that could instakill you. The bridges make for great chokepoints combined with the stability change you now have to think for yourselfs (kitten that’s hard right?). You won’t be able to rely on your 30 gaurdians who can give you perma stability anymore. Suddenly siegeing requires slightly more skill.

ITS LIKE SKYHAMMER OR EOTM WTF ANET, you might say. It’s not at all. Skyhammer and Eotm are floating, meaning you can basically be knocked off anywhere and everywhere. Not only that but you go directly back to spawn (Eotm.) So one missplay causes you to go back to spawn. The new map allows allies to res you. If you bothered to get all the shrines you won’t even die!

MORE PVE?!?! This one comes up a lot. Fights that require attention =/= more PvE. Smart players can now use the lord to their advantage when defending and have to be more on their toes when attacking with defenders. Currently once your through the inner gate it’s pretty safe to say theirs not enough defenders and you can DPS the lord down, whilst ignoring them because your AoE buffs will keep you alive from their damage. With the changes to lords you’ll have to use a different strategy. Defenders can use stuff such as the air prison to burst down people who got separated from the zerg and attackers can slot anti stealth skills to burst down the ogre lord quicker. If you don’t want to think about what to do in certain situations i can see why you would think this is more PvE but it’s not. It just requires you to actually play and think for yourself.

WUT ABOUT THE DINOSAUR DUDE THOUGH? Well they said that havoc groups will be strong here, meaning the dude with the powercore probably isn’t that strong. The orb was a really good mechanic in the old maps. It just got abused by exploiters. It brings a chase and run aspect to WvW which is really fun. Objective based pvp is almost always more intense than deathmatch. I highly doubt the enemy team will just allow you to casually stroll in, 100b the dino and walk off with the power core. If anything an event like this FORCES PvP as people cannot sit in a keep on a cannon.

WHAT ABOUT THE FANCY SHRINES, YOU HAVE THAT IN EOTM! Eotm is a place to queue when WvW is full, That and people karma train it because it doesn’t affect your servers score. Currently in WvW towers and camps serve close to no purpose. Sure camps upgrade objectives but beyond that theres no reason to not just cap everything back before the point tick. With the new mechanics it gives the towers a reason to be capped. Mobility is one thing that is a big advantage in WvW, having certain towers in the new map will provide a much bigger advantage now. People will use more tactics when capping, rather than just attack the closest objective. Currently if you attack briar it doesn’t help you in attacking bay unless you want to treb. With the new map you can take a tower and force the enemy zerg to walk a long way to get back to their keep and defend. That being said if you REALLY can’t stand slightly more challenging lords then EB is always there and maps will surely be on rotation. Options are good.

I THINK THEY NEED TO TEST FULL MAP FIGHTS. Personally i think they’re trying to steer away from 200 man fights and that’s what the updates seem aimed at. You’ll be punished by air turrets if you just turn your brain off and follow the zerg.

The new map seems to try to discourage mindless zerging without having players feel punished for seeing other players. (Something Anet always wanted to accomplish, but is difficult in this situation.)

Will it? Who knows. I personally think it’s a step in the right direction though. The map is much more than i expected and i can’t wait to roam around on it.

Thanks for the great insight into a great map!

Does anyone else have anything positive to say?

There is a pretty big difference between running around on a pin doing nothing and actually running in an organized raid in coms with party setups, etc. Those groups are being screwed.

No the map looks bad because its like EOTM and people hated so much about EOTM. How bout you just listen to the community?

jaimy.4108:

Congrats Anet, you succesfully managed to ignore the WvW/GvG community and do precisely the opposite.

How to kitten up your game even more

Why don’t you play GvG on EB or the alpine BL? These maps are perfect for that: plain, with big open fields. Why do you want another map that is strictly the same? Some of us would like to try a different WvW experience, let us please.

The new keeps are really cool, I actually like the bonus and “PvE” elements, like the stealth area around earth keep and the no falling damage around air keep.
It makes the game more interesting for roaming groups.

And the capture the flag type of event in the middle of the map sounds great.

I think people keep missing the fact that Alpine BL will be removed from the rotation, to be added into the rotation at A Later Date TBD™. We won’t have access to it again for quite some time.

rainisword.7860:

There is a pretty big difference between running around on a pin doing nothing and actually running in an organized raid in coms with party setups, etc. Those groups are being screwed.

Why? Elaborate.
They’re not removing the AoE Limit you can still cower behind it for now.

rainisword.7860:

No the map looks bad because its like EOTM and people hated so much about EOTM. How bout you just listen to the community?

People hated the instadeath behind it, Never seen anyone complain about other mechanics.

Which community? The one who are constantly demanding GvG despite being told close after launch that Anet have no intention of making it a game mode. I think i’ll pass on listening to ignorance.

FalconOSeven.2364:

I don’t understand the issue with the “pve” that some people are complaining over. You say you want them to remove pve, but then what is there? Towers with no guards that enemies can walk into and instantly cap? Or a boring flat map like the area in OS with endless fights that grow stale after 1 day?

The new map looks fun and anything that helps to try and move away from the full map zergs we have today is a positive imo. Pretty much all I do is roam now (with the occasional zerging on my guard) and being able to have these smaller objectives that mean something overall for the rest of the server I’m on is great.

Pve event in the middle, shrines. Sounds too pve for me.

Finally, a map that actually looks fun and gives more incentive to divide and conquer instead of blobVblob.

From the preview, it is great to know that tower finally has more strategic meanings.
But, the new towers and keeps designs seem to favour defender extremely. I fear that the unbalanced WvW population will undermine the fun aspect of the map.

Also, it is great to know that anet is trying to design it to be closer to a open-world pvp map, with towns and houses and trees and such. Still, unfortunately, it is still not a open-world pvp world because we all know that it is a WvW map, separating from the PvE aspect of the game.

SkyShroud.2865:

From the preview, it is great to know that tower finally has more strategic meanings.
But, the new tower and keep design seems to favour defender extremely. I fear that the unbalanced WvW population will undermine the fun aspect of the map.

That can also be a good thing. In a very unbalanced matchup, you could probably let go of your side objectives, and just hold on to your keep and one last tower, and the choke points could make it easier to defend with less people.

Sorel.4870:

SkyShroud.2865:

From the preview, it is great to know that tower finally has more strategic meanings.
But, the new tower and keep design seems to favour defender extremely. I fear that the unbalanced WvW population will undermine the fun aspect of the map.

That can also be a good thing. In a very unbalanced matchup, you could probably let go of your side objectives, and just hold on to your keep and one last tower, and the choke points could make it easier to defend with less people.

If you lost the keep then, how are you gonna get it back? :O

So am I reading this right this map is completely replacing the old BL maps? So no option for ppl who end up not liking the new map to play on the BLs we use now? Sooooo if this map flops and people dont like it the only map people who enjoy open field fights and dont want siege interference or pve stuff going on will be EB?

I was for this map as a cool thing to try out but replacing the current BLs completely is a huge risk.

johnno.7543:

So am I reading this right this map is completely replacing the old BL maps? So no option for ppl who end up not liking the new map to play on the BLs we use now? Sooooo if this map flops and people dont like it the only map people who enjoy open field fights and dont want siege interference or pve stuff going on will be EB?

I was for this map as a cool thing to try out but replacing the current BLs completely is a huge risk.

GoldenTruth.2853:

“When the expansion ships we will initially replace the existing borderland map entirely with the new one, later there will be a rotation of schedule/format TBD between borderland maps”

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2z0ue2/egx_new_wvw_map_reveal_livestream_notes/cpephus

I’m cool with most of these features but get rid of that Lich Lord and the Oasis Event, seriously. What better way to troll a zerg than simply follow them into the Lich tower and purposefully try and wipe everyone when you get the AoE damage debuff on you. Those mechanics are fine for dungeons because they are instanced and you can kick trolls; you cannot do this in WvW.

And the Oasis event sounds equally awful, but they didn’t release enough information about it. Do you have to collect cores for 3 hours before you gain control of the laser? Does it constantly destroy gates over a 3-hour timespan? I don’t like it. Let us destroy gates through force, not through some mob-farming gimmick.

I’m also going to miss the regular borderlands, I’ve been playing since beta and honestly the most fun I’ve ever had playing this game has been during 3-way garrison and orb fights. No PvE mobs there to one-shot you, no PvE sentry turrets to randomly do AoE knockbacks, just a big mass of players using tactics, positioning and siege to do battle over an objective.

johnno.7543:

So am I reading this right this map is completely replacing the old BL maps? So no option for ppl who end up not liking the new map to play on the BLs we use now? Sooooo if this map flops and people dont like it the only map people who enjoy open field fights and dont want siege interference or pve stuff going on will be EB?

I was for this map as a cool thing to try out but replacing the current BLs completely is a huge risk.

Apparently that was stated during the stream, although I missed that part. I would have to watch the VODs to see what exactly was said.

From what I had understood, they were going to put them on some kind of rotation rather than just a straight up replacement.

In any case, I think that the very competitively-minded people won’t like the new maps that much. These sorts of “bells and whistles” get in the way of “real” competitive gameplay.

It’s kind of like Smash. The “proper” way to play Smash is final destination with no item. If you play on the standard stages with items, they just consider you some kind of casual scrub. Having items and stage elements active introduce mechanics into the game that would inevitably introduce inconsistencies (i.e. player X won that match because they got a good item).

So I think the same sort of mindset will apply to the new borderland maps. The stark asymmetry and numerous mechanics will end up turning them off.

Though personally, I think that stuff looks pretty cool and I’ll probably have fun playing it. Also, I do prefer playing Smash on standard stages with items, it’s much funner that way.

I would suggest sPvP as an alternative to the competitively-minded WvW people, but apparently they don’t like that either. At least they will still have the community run GvGs to participate in, and they can suck up queue space on the new maps when they do it too.

as a person that loves figuring out ways to defend stuff, YUM, looking at the pics I got the same awesome feeling when I first went into Eternal and had to roam around solo to figure out what this wvw stuff was all about.

SnubdubLuskon.1795:

Finally, a map that actually looks fun and gives more incentive to divide and conquer instead of blobVblob.

Exactly, I honestly cant wait to play it and see if all these theories in this and other threads will work out.

I’ll be back with my complaints/rants or not at all when this stuff goes live and i have played it myself. Every server fights differently.

So it was not exactly clear to me. Will there be 3 copies of this map like the border lands are now or is there only going to be one?

Im all cool with them adding new stuff but why remove old content. Its ripping a preferred game mode away from players.
Expansions should not kill off the game i bought.
How mad Would Spvp players be if to add their map they got rid of Battle of Khylo? Tell them they can go play in the other 2 conquest maps and maybe they will put Khylo back in later.
RIP WvW

Anet should make one plain EB size meadow, 3 spawns, a large hollow middle field for zerg v zergs without objectives, wildlife(npc’s), PPT or “interesting” mechanics. Low budget, lot of fun.

I want my Border Map/s. Iam a WvW/PvP player and I dont want any fcng Karma train full of kitten PvE players in “my” WvW. This were suppose to be a rotation, Anet u killing us, killing us kitten

SkyShroud.2865:

Sorel.4870:

SkyShroud.2865:

From the preview, it is great to know that tower finally has more strategic meanings.
But, the new tower and keep design seems to favour defender extremely. I fear that the unbalanced WvW population will undermine the fun aspect of the map.

That can also be a good thing. In a very unbalanced matchup, you could probably let go of your side objectives, and just hold on to your keep and one last tower, and the choke points could make it easier to defend with less people.

If you lost the keep then, how are you gonna get it back? :O

Same as the old maps: don’t loose the keep mate.

RolandMode.2749:

Anet should make one plain EB size meadow, 3 spawns, a large hollow middle field for zerg v zergs without objectives, wildlife(npc’s), PPT or “interesting” mechanics. Low budget, lot of fun.

When I want to just press one and watch stuff die, I slay golems in HotM. You should try that sometimes.

Ballads.2509:

Im all cool with them adding new stuff but why remove old content. Its ripping a preferred game mode away from players.
Expansions should not kill off the game i bought.
How mad Would Spvp players be if to add their map they got rid of Battle of Khylo? Tell them they can go play in the other 2 conquest maps and maybe they will put Khylo back in later.
RIP WvW

Since your thread on the pvp forum will likely get deleted because it’s WvW related, I’ll post here:

The comparison is absurd. No issues can emerge from having an increasing number of pvp maps. WvW is designed around playing on multiple maps at the same time, so balance issues emerge when you add a map.

WvW maps will come back. Obviously, when HoT goes live, everyone will be playing on the new BL. So, if they replaced say one BL by the new one, there would be one HUUUUUUUUGE queue on said map (there will be for sure, anyway, even on three maps), so I’m thinking that could be a reason. Once everything settles down, they said the maps would be back in a rotation. They probably aren’t sure of the system they’ll use to rotate the maps anyway, so they are buying themselves time that way.

The problem they would have having both the new maps and the old at the release would be the probable imbalance in PPT: nobody would play the old one, causing some serious coverage issues. A long term solution would be or them to add a THIRD borderland, and rotate the servers every week similarly to what’s done in EB.

Finally, the alpine BL is really close to EB both visually and gameplay-wise: open fields, surroundable objectives, very few side mechanics. So you will still be able to play the way you want on EB.

TatsuKan.5412:

What WvW players are asking ?
- Remove PVE from WvW.
What Arenanet do ?
- More PVE in WvW…

I hope this doesn’t come as a surprise too anyone. They have proven over the past couple of years to be entirely unwilling to move away from the idea of diluting wvw with pve content. It’s just something we all need to come to the realization that this is how it is and nothing anyone says is going to change that.

The new map is amazing and it looks fun. Can’t wait to play something new for a chance.

“WvW is getting stale.”
“Freaking Map Blobs everywhere! Where are the real fights?”
“We want change!”

Well, you all got your wish, and frankly, the previewed Desert Borderland is, when you think about it the only solution for what is wrong with WvW right now.

…Yes, I said the vertically-advantaged, objective-prioritized, NPC-dynamiced new borderland is the solution to what many have been crying out for. Or at the very least addresses many of the problems we have had once we reached the point where the current maps got real dull.

I am just going to assume many of you have started questioning my sanity, and I will answer that yes, I am an insane, suicidal warrior who loves to smash through enemy zounds alone. But that does not diminish why the new borderlands help us overall.

Let’s go through the problems one at a time, and see what JUST the Desert Borderlands does.

Stale World Versus World: This one is probably the most common complaint, and it has a myriad of rationale behind it, from ‘Fighting the same opponents is boring’ to using the ‘Same tactics and sieging the same objectives’. I am fairly certain we have all gone through our 200th capture of Stonemist Castle to know there are approximately 457,124 bricks on the outer wall…give or take a few hundred.

Sadly, even after Heart of Thorns we will still be counting Stonemist bricks, wishing we can get into the new utterly different borderland queues. We are getting a new map people, A NEW MAP. Regardless of what your opinion is, regardless of how much you hate heights, the new Borderlands unlike Edge of the Mists will matter on the scoreboard, and we will be returning back to the old days of figuring out tactics and siege placements or where to drop in from to crash the party with your guild of 15-20!

I am going to call this now, a lot of people here will actually love the new map, and feel invigorated by a fresh new battlefield to fight on. If nothing else, that stale feeling will be taken away for a time.

The ocean of foes: So this is an interesting perspective I am having issues trying to comprehend why people get upset about. Yes, numbers are an undeniable power in WvW. So we build siege to try to counter, but then we run the issue of whether siege is needed when fighting an equal force, thus setting in motion probably the most debated issue in GW2. Fortunately, I am only concerned with how the map helps with the ‘issue’ with map blobs.

Turns out, having bigger numbers will always give you an advantage, but having bigger numbers going into a choke….

I don’t think we need commanders to figure this one out, but choke-based objectives and vertical mechanics actually HURT the bigger numbers, there is a larger risk of getting taken out by well-placed arrow-carts or gravity (How many people do you lose jumping down from just Hills? Multiply that by Dry Top). I predict that, at least with the Desert Borderlands, players will realize the best course for their forces is smaller but still significant numbers across the map. Running 80 into some chokes might be a death-wish…

Now, with all the other things like NPC changes or smaller objectives, I do not think their impact is worth mentioning here as I believe they need to be played first by us to get a better grasp. I mean, I don’t think I am going on too much of a whim here saying that the NPC changes shouldn’t really affect WvWers too much, remember when the mobs in EotM were announced? I am going to expect the same from these mobs, as I believe the real positive effect that we all should be happy for is an actual change in the WvW battlefield.

So if you will excuse me, going to clean my hammer off, whiskers, asura ear, some human hair, it ruins the shine.

The oasis event could be just what WvW needs to mitigate the population imbalance. But will players use it to that end? Or will they take the easy way out and simply allow this opportunity to pass by?

The oasis event is a great mechanism to allow all three servers to have fun in an imbalanced matchup (which happens often). This is how it should be played in the case of one strong server, two weaker servers which is the most common imbalance situation:

• Strong Server is going to dominate. They’ll have their entire BL T3 and own much of the enemy BL’s.
• Oasis Event begins.
• Weak Server A and Weak Server B should work together at the event against the Strong Server.
• Weak Server A fights the dinos and runs the orb charges (or whatever they’re called).
• Weak Server B fights Strong Server so that they don’t capture the giant cannon that will make them even more strong than they already are.
• When Server A caps the oaisis both Server A and Server B now have an advanage over the Strong Server. They both can go attack the Strong Servers stuff.
• All servers have fun.

This is the optimal way to play it because it has many advantages.

1. Prevents the Strong Server from getting even more strong.
2. Creates a “localized” balance even if they overall match is imbalanced.
3. Most importantly it allows all three servers to have fun instead of one just rolling over the other two everywhere like happens now.

If we players allow it to devolve into letting the Strong Server cap the oasis and then one Weak Server canibalizing the other like happens now, then we deservere what we get. And what we get will be more of the same – population imbalance and all the QQ and complaining about it that occurrs now.

Lets take this opportunity to do it right!

All I kept thinking of while watching video:
Ledges. Ledges. Ledges. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Ledges. Ledges. Ledges. Banish. Banish. Banish.
Ledges. Ledges. Ledges. Ledges. EOTM. EOTM EOTM EOTM. EOTM. PvE. PvE. PvE. Ledges. Ledges. Ledges. Skyhammer. Skyhammer. Skyhammer. Ledges. Ledges. Ledges.

I want open spaces to fight on, not NPC that cc and annoys me
I want open spaces to fight on, not small narrow walkways 2 men wide
I want open spaces to fight on, not Lava lakes that burns
I want open spaces to fight on, not gust of winds from a JP that knocks me down
I want open spaces to fight on, not a Developer listening to PvE players

I want open spaces to fight on, massive battles, Guilds clashing, a game I fell in love with, a concept that brought me from Warhammer and kept me here for 2,5y, a game concept I really cant get in any other decent MMO… when will u listen to us Anet ?

You doing WvW for everyone except the actual WvW players yet again.

Rave

dont kill wvw please. Please support small scale fighting / roaming.
Its the greatest thing this game has to offer. Alot of players play just for this.

Please have that in mind.

x Charlie.4820:

rainisword.7860:

There is a pretty big difference between running around on a pin doing nothing and actually running in an organized raid in coms with party setups, etc. Those groups are being screwed.

Why? Elaborate.
They’re not removing the AoE Limit you can still cower behind it for now.

rainisword.7860:

No the map looks bad because its like EOTM and people hated so much about EOTM. How bout you just listen to the community?

People hated the instadeath behind it, Never seen anyone complain about other mechanics.

Which community? The one who are constantly demanding GvG despite being told close after launch that Anet have no intention of making it a game mode. I think i’ll pass on listening to ignorance.

No need to elaborate. You just proved your severe ignorance if you can’t tell the difference between a pug blob and an organized raid. AOE cap has nothing to do with it lol. It also proves youve never participated in one.

Well you must not have read very far into what people hated about EOTM.

Anet doesn’t listen to the community because they gave them essentially an EOTM. Too much pve, too many objectives, too much that interferes with actual combat(broken instant death mechanics). Making the mobs even harder to kill and somehow have elaborate mechanics is great for pve but terrible for WvW.

Like literally if you actually read any of the comments here, you’d realize youre the only one who looks ignorant.

Doesn’t really matter if couple hundred players hate map. Most of players don’t even want your lame blob guilds in same map.

Junkpile.7439:

Doesn’t really matter if couple hundred players hate map. Most of players don’t even want your lame blob guilds in same map.

Yeah. They said the same about EOTM.

I’m gonna agree. Lots of people want “issues” fixed involving the best methods being blobby and stale, but when they see this BL, they say they want less PvE and bigger, flatter maps for big fights.
I don’t get the backlash. The awesome contours of the land and the feature-rich environment seem like they are tailor-made to address the long-standing issues people have. You already have maps with less PvE and bigger open spaces, and it’s working, but we could definitely use something to make us all relearn the game mode from scratch. I’m glad they are being bold and swinging for the fences with it. I think of all the xpac PvP content that other games release over the years, and it’s all just the same with poorer and poorer balance. I think it’s awesome we get these enormous maps for 1 PvP game type and a new game mode for the other. I was honestly expecting the xpac to be mostly PvE focused with a couple new SPvP conquest maps and like a new trait line for WvW skills.

Junkpile.7439:

Doesn’t really matter if couple hundred players hate map. Most of players don’t even want your lame blob guilds in same map.

EotM is were skill goes to die

Sorel.4870:

Why don’t you play GvG on EB or the alpine BL? These maps are perfect for that: plain, with big open fields. Why do you want another map that is strictly the same? Some of us would like to try a different WvW experience, let us please.

I am not speaking of GvG alone,
I speak of the real players versus player fights, without the kitten PvE and siege being involved in this.

This new map is pretty much a EOTM Skyhammer Jumping Puzzle with pve content…
Anet is removing the only maps Guilds can raid propper

A non-player character being associated with an objective does not make it PvE. In most PvP game modes, they aren’t all death-match. In fact, death-match is usually the least entertaining. Counter Strike has the bomb to arm or disarm; DoTA has creeps and towers; but these games are undeniably PvP games.

For example: There are complaints about the oasis event. “OMG YOU KILL DINOSAURS AND TURN IT IN!” It sounds like the creatures that carry these objectives are simply there for the initial spawn of the power cores. Players have to risk carrying it and bring it to the objectives themselves, which is just like what you do with a flag in capture the flag – or the Orb of Power we once had in WvW.

Of course, if there are no enemies to fight, then yes it will just be a boring PvE event. However, if there’s no one to fight, then no lack of PvE events will turn an empty map into a thriving PvP one.