Guild Wars 2

apharma.3741:

Mikhael.2391:

apharma.3741:

Mikhael.2391:

Whats broken about warrior is the amount of healling available while using full berserker/marauder. No toughness needed or healling power at all. same as druids. no class should get so much gealling uf not geared up for it. if they nerfed even more signet and AH then they would have to sacrifice dps in order to get that survival. no more big numbers with litle sacrifice. dont really care if someone comes defend this because its to scared of loosing their confortable near op build , should be like this and thats that.

Try the same build without berserker and suddenly it becomes balanced. Deny the warrior it’s burst skill and no more 900+up/s healing and it becomes very easy to deny as adrenaline takes time to build up, a lot longer than berserker and it’s 1 bar =T3 burst.

The problem is the spammable T3 burst skills on berserker and in some parts the 20s cool down headbutt allowing for easy access to berserk mode.

Easiest solution is to make primal bursts count as a T1 or T2 burst skill, you can adjust the numbers for damage so they stay the same if needed and make it a WvW/PvP only change so they aren’t affected in PvE.

Sorry but no. If u want super dps you should not have that amazing sustain. its basic knowledge on every mmo the harder u hit the squishier you are. only here this does not aply. Use other tools utilitys traits to get more adrenaline wich you have. like i said no one wants this changed because they r too confortable being near perfect. theres no need to sacrifice damage to survive. Can you not see that? MOre damage less survival, more survival less damage. its how it should be always. if you dont understand a 20k berserker warrior full of tough with awesome survival and dps is broken you r blind.

I’ve beaten core warriors on core mesmer, it’s super easy when you deny the burst as all that great healing you’re complaining about is easily denied. I see that this high regen is tied to 2 factors on core warrior:

1) Building adrenaline.
2) Hitting with a fairly well telegraphed skill (exception bow burst).

On core warrior building adrenaline is much harder than berserker and many do invest quite heavily in it. Adrenaline generators that core warriors use are: Signet of rage, cleansing ire, versatile rage, berserker stance and they conserve it with burst mastery. Adrenal healing also doesn’t stack so you can’t get a large heal when you need it.

T1 burst: 2475 healing over 15s. 165 health/s
T2 burst: 4950 healing over 15s. 300 health/s
T3 burst: 7425 healing over 15s. 495 health/s

It’s fair on core warrior, because a core warriors adrenaline access requires investment to build at a decent pace and is nicely telegraphed. Go compare core warrior and berserker with the two builds (substitute strength line for berserker on core) and you will see a massive difference. The problem is the elite spec and nerfing core traits for an elite spec creates more balance problems down the line when it becomes useless without this 1 elite spec.

Edit: Forgot to mention core warrior also is more susceptible to hard CC as they can’t pick eternal champion or outrage/headbutt for the extra stunbreaks and adrenaline gain. You can use this to keep denying burst and control warriors. As I say elite spec problem not core warrior problem.

So easy to land that burst on Mesmer clones…but yeah core warrior is easier to handle. Burst skills aren’t as spammy, not as much stab and no head butt to worry about. Really easy to land a free head butt on clones or ranger pet too. Once regen gets going it’s like having a solid, uninterruptible heal every 5 or 6 seconds.

Warriors are op. They can 3 v 1 you outrun a thief and any class. They have a ferrari engine in them with unlimited skills. Awesome class…..

Been playing WvW since beta really, but the first instance I saw a Run-A-Way Warrior was about 2 years ago. Basically it was in Eternal Battlegrounds, and our Lowlands waypoint kept being contested. When we had someone check the walls and gates, could never find anyone. So I actually decided to sit and watch. Low and behold from the moat there was a Warrior that came up to our back gate, started smacking it, and just started to jog away. The chase was on. Being ranger, I had a consistant speed buff skill, so my jog was just a tad faster, and I started to burst his back side with arrows. However he flipped on a few skills and began to pull away…and continued to pull away…and then continued to pull away to the point he disppeared off my screen. Besides running the objectified Runes of the Centaur, he had his weapon and traits specifically set for either speed, or quick jumps to elongate the distance between us. Sorry to say, the only way to actually get these guys is to Crowd Control constantly and very quickly. Otherwise their speeds and ability to throw out invulnerability, makes them nothing more than greased pigs.

hayabusafmw.9370:

Warriors are op. They can 3 v 1 you outrun a thief and any class. They have a ferrari engine in them with unlimited skills. Awesome class…..

Wait what? What are you talking about? If you are 3 v 1ing a warrior and lose. That’s really not the class being broken but a clear issue that you 3 need to serious come out from yall zerg’s and learn how to actually play the game.

Agreed. That’s not productive discussion.

Later on, I’ll post a video of me 1v1-ing Zerkers that demonstrates what I’m talking about re: having no counterplay, having to run away for the entire fight, invuln/resist uptime, etc. Hopefully that’ll be more helpful than “zomg war OP”.

You can Just reroll to power Rev If you want to beat the zerky warrior with 3500armor so badly. I dont understand the issue.
Dont hate the warrior, instead learn 2 play xD

petition to retitle this topic to : cowards in WvW
Since its warriors have by now been proven to be the lesser of the many evils.

coro.3176:

Agreed. That’s not productive discussion.

Later on, I’ll post a video of me 1v1-ing Zerkers that demonstrates what I’m talking about re: having no counterplay, having to run away for the entire fight, invuln/resist uptime, etc. Hopefully that’ll be more helpful than “zomg war OP”.

Invuln and resist is part of core warrior aswell,that’s a non argument.

Ok, I think there needs some clarifications about the first post.

I was trying to outline the warrior has so may strengths that they have no weaknesses.

Outrage,Stun breaks, Stability, Invulnerability, Last Stand,Berserker,Eternal Champion, and Healing Signet are fine, and I don’t think they should be changed.

The problem is that they have these, and have a large amount of mobility too.

Mobility is what needs the nerf on warriors, more specifically their ability to escape.

Warriors should be an “honorable” type class where you bring heavy damage, and heavy defense into a fight but know you will either win or die.

Just preventing the leaps being used to escape would fix the problem.

Well zerorogue,every class has something,and even warriors aint the one and only best.You would see maaany more warriors otherwise.Being able to disengage is normal thing for every roamer,even reapers can get away if they dont venture too far into enemy teritory.

Your problem seem to be within some certain individuals you are facing,which as i understood are starting a fight,reseting and reengaging till you die or logout.This can be done by any class,really and warriors aint even the best in this.I believe you have 2 options,live with it,or build up to kill them specifically.If its a tankie troll,maybe get another angry guys and hunt it down if its important for you.

This whichhunt on warriors mobility is going nowhere,and even if you would succed by some miracle,you know in wvw there are loads of targets for such escapes.That total one leap on sword and you probally mean also 5 on gs could still be used to disengage.

zerorogue.9410:

Ok, I think there needs some clarifications about the first post.

I was trying to outline the warrior has so may strengths that they have no weaknesses.

Outrage,Stun breaks, Stability, Invulnerability, Last Stand,Berserker,Eternal Champion, and Healing Signet are fine, and I don’t think they should be changed.

The problem is that they have these, and have a large amount of mobility too.

Mobility is what needs the nerf on warriors, more specifically their ability to escape.

Warriors should be an “honorable” type class where you bring heavy damage, and heavy defense into a fight but know you will either win or die.

Just preventing the leaps being used to escape would fix the problem.

So wait, you’ve listed a bunch of warrior’s current strengths, many of which weren’t implemented until the expansion. But rather than toning down the massive expansion powercreep, you want to nerf its mobility, which has been in the game for years without any issues? And you want to do this because…thematics? What? Where in the game is it stated that warriors are meant to be honorable? Isn’t that description supposed to suit guardians, which have an actual traitline named Honor, and by design remain the only profession without access to passive +25 movespeed in traits and utility skills? Even the description for warrior’s pvp title achievement just says “Getting the job done.” I really don’t know where you’re getting the idea that warriors shouldn’t be able to disengage.

Moreover, nerfing warrior’s mobility skills to always require a target would only serve to make the profession even more simplistic and braindead. No more using Rush to move just out of range of a melee skill, then retargeting it to turn around and smack the person in the face. No more Savage Leaps across obstacles and gaps in terrain. And why do warrior’s leap skills suddenly have to function differently from those of every other profession in the game? Oh yeah, because for some reason they’re supposed to be “honorable.” Huh.

P.S.: This would also make core warrior even less viable than it currently is, since it doesn’t have the numerous stunbreaks and defensive tools available to Berserker and thus has to rely on positioning to avoid all the aoe spam. Great, more enforced vertical progression.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

Well zerorogue,every class has something,and even warriors aint the one and only best.You would see maaany more warriors otherwise.Being able to disengage is normal thing for every roamer,even reapers can get away if they dont venture too far into enemy teritory.

Your problem seem to be within some certain individuals you are facing,which as i understood are starting a fight,reseting and reengaging till you die or logout.This can be done by any class,really and warriors aint even the best in this.I believe you have 2 options,live with it,or build up to kill them specifically.If its a tankie troll,maybe get another angry guys and hunt it down if its important for you.

This whichhunt on warriors mobility is going nowhere,and even if you would succed by some miracle,you know in wvw there are loads of targets for such escapes.That total one leap on sword and you probally mean also 5 on gs could still be used to disengage.

Warriors are the only class that can runaway that is still strong in both offense and defense, The other two strong mobility classes(mesmer, thief) both suffer from reduced defenses. The thief with low hp pool and the Mesmer with light armor. Yes these two classes have high mobility, but they also have low defense.

Torqiseknite.1380:

So wait, you’ve listed a bunch of warrior’s current strengths, many of which weren’t implemented until the expansion. But rather than toning down the massive expansion powercreep, you want to nerf its mobility, which has been in the game for years without any issues? And you want to do this because…thematics? What? Where in the game is it stated that warriors are meant to be honorable? Isn’t that description supposed to suit guardians, which have an actual traitline named Honor, and by design remain the only profession without access to passive +25 movespeed in traits and utility skills? Even the description for warrior’s pvp title achievement just says “Getting the job done.” I really don’t know where you’re getting the idea that warriors shouldn’t be able to disengage.

Moreover, nerfing warrior’s mobility skills to always require a target would only serve to make the profession even more simplistic and braindead. No more using Rush to move just out of range of a melee skill, then retargeting it to turn around and smack the person in the face. No more Savage Leaps across obstacles and gaps in terrain. And why do warrior’s leap skills suddenly have to function differently from those of every other profession in the game? Oh yeah, because for some reason they’re supposed to be “honorable.” Huh.

P.S.: This would also make core warrior even less viable than it currently is, since it doesn’t have the numerous stunbreaks and defensive tools available to Berserker and thus has to rely on positioning to avoid all the aoe spam. Great, more enforced vertical progression.

The powercreep of the classes is a whole other can of worms. I don’t support Anet’s choice to make the elite specs such a must have. However, in this situation changing the elite secs would only hinder warrior as a class.

I don’t like what I proposed, but It’s really the only way I can see it being fix beyond something that would severely hamper warrior in total. If you or anyone else can think of a better way to reduce the escape of a warrior without reducing combat abilities please post it.

The core of the issue is the design of the game play. Everything was simplified down from gw1 and such lost a lot of the balance and synergetics

In a long term fix for this and escaping in general, we need to go back to the 3 type debuff system GW1 had (CC, condition, hexes). This would allow for better imperfect balance of the game. However this would take a significant amount of time and effort. So for now Just fixing this one issue would be a start.

KaporHabakuk.6219:

which as i understood are starting a fight,reseting and reengaging till you die or logout.This can be done by any class,really …

Not really, which is why you see certain classes a lot more than others (war/mes/thief/druid), this game is “balanced” for fighting over capture points in PvP, where fights are forced to a great extent, more static and where there is a cost for disengaging/resetting a fight, roaming in WvW on the other hand is given zero balance consideration and the result is as you would expect massively imbalanced, anyone who claims otherwise is either clueless or a liar.

Zerorogue, I don’t think you understand the game at all, what of druids running staff and great sword? A lot more mobility and ways to kite than a warrior with just as silly sustain while letting the AI effectively do all the work.

Scrappers have lots of stealth now for disengage at will, denying stealth to others as well as good sustain and damage. Guardians while not high on the mobility list have a huge amount of blocks which cuts down the warriors ability to sustain and do damage in combat. Revs are also extremely silly and are as bad as berserkers on all fronts.

Mobility isn’t the be all end all of WvW, stealth is, 5s of stealth with swiftness usually means you can back out of any fight you want. Doesn’t matter if the warrior uses all his mobility to get to you, he is 5s behind you assuming a flat terrain with nowhere to hide. If you can LoS then it’s GG.

Also saying cloth armour and low health pool is a big sign of not knowing how classes play. Both classes make up for that with superior in combat damage avoidance both by in combat mobility to not be where the enemy hits as well as blinds, stealth and CC.

in WvW romaing you need to be fast … Thats why i use SW/WH + GS on my warrior with pack rune. This combo makes it roaming viable…. Added boon duration food (gnashblade) and you have permaswiftness + SW2 leaping around. And guess what i run traited bull rush on toolbar as well. Catching non steath d/d thiefs gets doable …
And it´s not the strongest roaming build just an option.

Warriors problem is not mobility, its his amazing sustain from AH and signet combined WITHOUT specing for it(healling power/toughness gear) they have way too much healling and toughness in full zerker thereso having stupid amount of dps. Warrior has the sustain of a toughness healling gear without actually using this or sacrificing dps.

zerorogue.9410:

Additionally the main issue is the problem of fleeing enemies. While fleeing is not peculiarly bad, being able to do this loop (fight>run away>heal>repeat) consistently with high dps and survival, is the big issue.

Warriors’s greatsword #5 (Rush) should be nerfed as happened with Elementalist’s dagger #4 (Ride the Lighning): when you use this skill without hitting a target the cooldown rises from 20 to 40 seconds. That alone would keep the disengaging ability but punish any attempt to use it to reset the fight.

Buran.3796:

zerorogue.9410:

Additionally the main issue is the problem of fleeing enemies. While fleeing is not peculiarly bad, being able to do this loop (fight>run away>heal>repeat) consistently with high dps and survival, is the big issue.

Warriors’s greatsword #5 (Rush) should be nerfed as happened with Elementalist’s dagger #4 (Ride the Lighning): when you use this skill without hitting a target the cooldown rises from 20 to 40 seconds. That alone would keep the disengaging ability but punish any attempt to use it to reset the fight.

That skill is notorious for missing targets. Hell they don’t even have to be moving and half the time you will run past them and swing at the air.

Mikhael.2391:

Warriors problem is not mobility, its his amazing sustain from AH and signet combined WITHOUT specing for it(healling power/toughness gear) they have way too much healling and toughness in full zerker thereso having stupid amount of dps. Warrior has the sustain of a toughness healling gear without actually using this or sacrificing dps.

Agreed. Warriors can keep their mobility for all I care, let them run like cowards if they want.

Whats wrong with the class is having utterly insane healing and near immunity to CC while also having this mobility, lots of stuns, invoulnerability and zerker class damage. Nerf signet and passive traits. Problem solved.

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Thieves have very polar balance right now. Perma evade is kind of stupid. Cleanse on evade is frustrating. Fighting against thieves that evade until they have a cc ready is not fun.
However, D/D is bad without the evade spam, sword is weak and requires sigils to do damage, and staff is only meh outside of vault spam, which only leaves p/d and d/p as weapons that have more than evade spam making them good, and they greatly benefit from evade spam anyways.
Without the evades and resetting, thief isn’t even good. If they want to tone down evades and resetting, they would have to buff something else.

zerorogue.9410:

Ok, I think there needs some clarifications about the first post.

I was trying to outline the warrior has so may strengths that they have no weaknesses.

Outrage,Stun breaks, Stability, Invulnerability, Last Stand,Berserker,Eternal Champion, and Healing Signet are fine, and I don’t think they should be changed.

The problem is that they have these, and have a large amount of mobility too.

Mobility is what needs the nerf on warriors, more specifically their ability to escape.

Warriors should be an “honorable” type class where you bring heavy damage, and heavy defense into a fight but know you will either win or die.

Just preventing the leaps being used to escape would fix the problem.

Mobility needs nerfing so they can be outkited all day ? Do you even think before you type ?

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Which is why I think I can sum up this thread in a nutshell, as it’s also applicable to warrior/berserker, and this applies to pretty much everything:

Dealing enough damage to end a fight while at the same time negating enough damage to not be ended/pressured is just bad design.

You still can kill a warrior. You just need a root after his resistance wears off. That’s impossible when fighting thieves.

As stated before. It’s not fun fighting thieves and it’s always the same kind of combat were you always play defensive because the thief dictates the fight.
That’s different against warriors, mesmers (except for pu) or even rangers.

I really hope if there is another GW2 expac that they completely rework thieves.

DeceiverX.8361:

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Which is why I think I can sum up this thread in a nutshell, as it’s also applicable to warrior/berserker, and this applies to pretty much everything:

Dealing enough damage to end a fight while at the same time negating enough damage to not be ended/pressured is just bad design.

That pretty much counts for all classes with any invuln/block uptime.Thief/necro not counted.

They won’t touch warrior as much as people would want in this thread, yes I strongly dislike( hate ) warriors also, their sustain is way too high for a zerk build, they removed all base weaknesses from the class, like easy to kite and weakness to condis.

Wars right now are nearly unCCeable, unBursteable and outrun most builds if specced for that…but…

The profession does not stick out too much in other modes respect to wvw, still strong but they do not attract enough attention like other profession did ( Ex : everybody hates eles in PvE..they were most hated also in wvw and PvP where are now a laughing stock), which is the reason why they got nerfed and warrior left alone.

You won’t see huge nerfs to war, trust me, you may see few minor tweaks there and there but..their outrageous sustain/dps/mobility is here to stay..sorry

Honestly, a few tweaks to some Berserker traits and how the Berserker burst interacts with some core adren traits (like Adrenal Health) and you’ll sufficiently address the problem without needing to touch mobility (which was already cut substantially a year and a half ago).

As a long time warrior roamer, I gotta ask why mobility is the thing people are complaining about. Honestly, Thief, Guardian, Mesmer and Druid can all hang onto a mobility spec Warrior just fine.

The problem with Warrior is the amount of base heal we get. The combo of AH, Signet and RR at their base values is huge. Anet needs to nerf the base heal while buffing the healing power coefficient.

Honestly Warrior suffers from the same issue allot of specs have since HoT relying on one or two super cheesy gimmicks, with them its OP (and running the anti power spec I run, its very OP right now) without them, or with even minor nerfs the class becomes worthless.

TLDR….HoT has been bad for ballence across the board…..

Heh perma evade thieves are pretty annoying too I will admit. They are a dime a dozen. At least warriors need to know how to play their class. Seeing a lot of nomad thieves around lately just being stupid.

Warrior players will rush to defend themselves as not being OP, yet I then see them launch themselves into the center of ten enemy players without a second guess because they know they can drop a couple of them and not die… Don’t see a lot of other professions doing that.

I have a buddy of mine wanted to try something different in WvW ad he chose the berserker (DPS, almost looks meta…GS and x+shield…dunno what the x is)

He has most classes/builds (minus druid and chrono) and all I hear from him is he cannot believe how cheesy he feels. The escapability from GS and shield alone, the CC’s (he refused to keep headbutt as, and I quote “Cheesy as Hell”). As a new player to berserker (or godzerker as I hear some call them) he took down almost everything and anything ( other zerkers were an exception as it boils down to skill and he’s new to it)

Good for me as a mid skilled druid and a newb rev to spar vs.

As mentioned, on their forums, a lot are still crying that they need more and it is true that over the last bunch of nerfs, godzerkers seem to be mommy’s favorite. Scale back their healing signet and remove movement attacks remove chill/cripple and see how many will fall then. I guess some people don’t see how lucky the class has got it.

Caedmon.6798:

DeceiverX.8361:

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Which is why I think I can sum up this thread in a nutshell, as it’s also applicable to warrior/berserker, and this applies to pretty much everything:

Dealing enough damage to end a fight while at the same time negating enough damage to not be ended/pressured is just bad design.

That pretty much counts for all classes with any invuln/block uptime.Thief/necro not counted.

It counts almost all of them, if not many elements of the Daredevil to to its easily-spammed evasion/Instant Reflexes addition and some of the Necromancer via elements of shroud (although designed this way and made fairly fair as a compromise due to the weaknesses of the non-shroud kit).

The amount of safe damage just needs to be reduced one way or another. It’s excessive and quite frankly is killing the game.

DeceiverX.8361:

Caedmon.6798:

DeceiverX.8361:

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Which is why I think I can sum up this thread in a nutshell, as it’s also applicable to warrior/berserker, and this applies to pretty much everything:

Dealing enough damage to end a fight while at the same time negating enough damage to not be ended/pressured is just bad design.

That pretty much counts for all classes with any invuln/block uptime. Thief/necro not counted.

(…)
The amount of safe damage just needs to be reduced one way or another. It’s excessive and quite frankly is killing the game.

Mace Shield guard is a block build, does no damage and cant escape…its a build based on team damage negation, but it is balanced since has poor damage and no escape.

Aeolus.3615:

DeceiverX.8361:

Caedmon.6798:

DeceiverX.8361:

shagwell.1349:

The only real broken thing in wvw roaming is thieves. Condi, perma evade, paired with stealth, condi cleanse, etc.
It’s not fun to fight them at all. They either run and reset 10 times or they condi bomb you while being impossible to hit.

Which is why I think I can sum up this thread in a nutshell, as it’s also applicable to warrior/berserker, and this applies to pretty much everything:

Dealing enough damage to end a fight while at the same time negating enough damage to not be ended/pressured is just bad design.

That pretty much counts for all classes with any invuln/block uptime. Thief/necro not counted.

(…)
The amount of safe damage just needs to be reduced one way or another. It’s excessive and quite frankly is killing the game.

Mace Shield guard is a block build, does no damage and cant escape…its a build based on team damage negation, but it is balanced since has poor damage and no escape.

Well, yeah. That’s how it works. He’s not talking about removing safe damage entirely (and, plus, that’s not ‘safe damage’, that’s just ‘safe’ as it can’t deal damage in return.) but instead about nerfing it to up the general flow of PvP and WvW.

For my two cents:
My experience in WvW gels perfectly with this thread. There’s a very good reason that the Warrior is still the most common class you’ll ever see in WvW and PvP alike, and the same goes for the Ranger and Thief.

The general philosophy of PvP and PvE design is that every class should be viable against everything, a golden rule games like this forget when it comes to PvP and WvW, and one people apparently seem to have forgotten.

Variety is a good thing, but not when it comes at the cost of playability to the subject of the variety. For as much as people bash WoW, the PvP is more balanced there and the class use rates reflect that: no class+spec has a 5% use rate, and instead all are equally used to a degree.

OP’s complaint isn’t because ‘he sucks’ as some people want to tell themselves, it’s because it’s a fact of GW2: the Warrior is able to do things that entire classes aren’t, and more on top of it, and that’s a definite reason there’re thrice as many Warriors in PvP and PvE and WvW as there are Engineers.

This isn’t a shot at ANet, but… well, I hope they realize how bad it is due to the number of people comparing their playtesters to CoD’s 12 year-old squad of ‘em. They should make judgements based on their observations AND the community, as that’s how the best art is made. Using playtesters/the community or observations is an outright bad idea, and everyone who disagrees should very well study up on comprehensive MMO/RPG design before they try pointing out how wrong I am.
Or I can just explain it, which works just as well.

towerston.2790:

OP’s complaint isn’t because ‘he sucks’ as some people want to tell themselves, it’s because it’s a fact of GW2: the Warrior is able to do things that entire classes aren’t, and more on top of it, and that’s a definite reason there’re thrice as many Warriors in PvP and PvE and WvW as there are Engineers.

This isn’t a shot at ANet, but… well, I hope they realize how bad it is due to the number of people comparing their playtesters to CoD’s 12 year-old squad of ‘em. They should make judgements based on their observations AND the community, as that’s how the best art is made. Using playtesters/the community or observations is an outright bad idea, and everyone who disagrees should very well study up on comprehensive MMO/RPG design before they try pointing out how wrong I am.
Or I can just explain it, which works just as well.

Actually some comments about his skill are directly brought from what he complains about and how he’s complaining about it. Additionally it’s coming from people who I know aren’t warrior mains so they don’t exactly have a vested interest distorting the truth. Many have pointed out with good reasons that the problem isn’t with the mobility skills but with the elite specs giving too much which is reflected in almost all the classes.

I don’t disagree with your last paragraph but I’m guessing you mean in respect to balance? A lot of people enjoyed and welcomed the community engagement with the HoT betas and many gave honest feedback on what was presented. Unfortunately it was also taken with a bit of “wow this instantly killed a guy, it’ll be balanced on launch, they won’t leave it like this” and guess what? Yeah they left revenant like that where CoR was ruining everyones day for quite a long time.

The heart of the problem is actually at ANet and how little they’re investing in balance not the community. There’s many in the community that are saying constantly that the elite specs are extremely unbalanced and causing the loss of risk in many classes. However ANet has gone with nerfing core traits rather than their elite spec side interaction as well as only pushing out balance patches about once every 3 months. That’s not cricket!

Its just funny what people consider as “broken”

OP see’s a running warrior.
OP cant keep up.
OP goes rage mode in real life.
OP posted a nerf-war-mobility on forum

This is how nerf topics get created. For the record, the game was never balanced and never will be. If you beleave that the game will be balanced in the future then you’re tripping.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Its just funny what people consider as “broken”

OP see’s a running warrior.
OP cant keep up.
OP goes rage mode in real life.
OP posted a nerf-war-mobility on forum

This is how nerf topics get created. For the record, the game was never balanced and never will be. If you beleave that the game will be balanced in the future then you’re tripping.

I know, really, instead of changing his build to catch up with the warrior, he comes here. Every class strengths and weakness, if you want a strength another class has, go play that class..

I wonder why this topic is still going, 3 pages of people ranting about broken wvw classes, the topic isn’t even on the warrior anymore..

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Its just funny what people consider as “broken”

OP see’s a running warrior.
OP cant keep up.
OP goes rage mode in real life.
OP posted a nerf-war-mobility on forum

This is how nerf topics get created. For the record, the game was never balanced and never will be. If you beleave that the game will be balanced in the future then you’re tripping.

This coming from one who, according to their forum history, plays warrior/berserker.

Sarcastic comments aside, I think it goes beyond just not keeping up with a running warrior. This is the illusion of those that play warrior/berserker have that they don’t need toning down. This is what some people were talking about that they complain that they need more. As most have already stated (even with good reasons that even those that play this class must admit) there are some good reasons why they need to be toned down and separate from “mommy’s favorite” class and get some well deserved nerfs. Looking at the history of the classes, Warrior/Berserker got the better end of most “balance patches”

Again, reduce the healing on the signet (as other classes have received passive healing nerfs cough Druid cough) (and yes I do play druid) that were almost just as good as berserkers, yet berserkers healing was untouched…so the point of nerfing druids was there were able to spec in DPS and still have good healing…sounds just like beserkers/warriors are the only ones now…go figure…look at what it did to druid…make them killable GASP

Suggestion(s):

- Reduce the healing from the signet and adrenal health or increase the CD of Endure Pain and remove it from the traits and change it to increased resistance application uptime instead.

- Remove the ability to shake off chill/immob/crip from weapon abilities that require movement so it takes actual skill to close gaps or “run away”…and yes remove it from the druids GS as well to make it fair and maybe gain a source of swiftness to compensate…maybe on GS5 after the running or GS3 after the spin.

- Increase the CD of Headbutt and shield block or Tone down the amount of CC’s and stunbreaks (not as harsh at the nerf to CC’s from scrapper…but enough to notice a difference to people that don’t play the class).

I played warrior/berserker and used some of these abilities (probably logged the most time with her actually) so I have an idea on how strong the class is.

With the above changes, Berserker will require actual skill to play and win and less people will complain fighting them as people will actually be able to catch up or actually have some good fights.

Also…these changes will make both condi and DPS zerkers a bit easier, although condi berserker also needs to be looked at…not so much LB but more of the sword burning application.

People actually saying they know warrior and then come up with the most ridiculous nerfs.

lets nerf our mobility,lets nerf the way we can shake off movement impairing conditions,lets nerf endure pain,lets nerf adren hp,lets nerf healsig,lets nerf headbutt,lets nerf shieldblock..lets nerf the way we can apply cc.

You people are a joke.

Caedmon.6798:

People actually saying they know warrior and then come up with the most ridiculous nerfs.

lets nerf our mobility,lets nerf the way we can shake off movement impairing conditions,lets nerf endure pain,lets nerf adren hp,lets nerf healsig,lets nerf headbutt,lets nerf shieldblock..lets nerf the way we can apply cc.

You people are a joke.

Pointing out a few things that seems to have been missed…for starters I clearly stated an “or” statements, which means one “or” the other.

Looking at what other classes have been hit with over time, I believe my suggestions are reasonable, but I wouldn’t expect a berserker to like the fact that someone suggested some reasonable nerfs/balances (as not all are nerfs but balances)

note that the increased resistance would also help with the movement impairing conditions AND I also didn’t say I know warrior, just I have an idea…but again….I’m just pointing out a few things that seem to have been missed

Actually dropping defy pain for something diffrent that gives group support would make sense for me. Elite is stronger then base and we should accept that. It´s not so bad if done right in the future making all elite balanced at each other.

Warrior is fine as is. Maybe slightly decrease the healing from AH, but even that isn’t a huge deal if you’re dodging their burst skills. Warrior has always had the ability to run away, that shouldn’t/won’t change.

People seem to have the impression that you should be able to go toe to toe with a warrior and come out on top. They don’t take into account that is exactly what Anet made warrior good at. Stances for warrior are both extremely strong and extremely weak, create some distance and kite them out and they are useless.

And before people say you can’t do that, considering I have been roaming on a baseline necro and succeeding against the vast majority of warriors should indicate that all it takes is a bit of patience and knowledge of the classes.

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Caedmon.6798:

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Im clearly missing something or I don’t get sarcasm today.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Caedmon.6798:

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Im clearly missing something or I don’t get sarcasm today.

Eh CoR is for nubs. Gun flame is better. Just sig up and fire into a blob. Things will die and your range is better.

Reh.5986:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Caedmon.6798:

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Im clearly missing something or I don’t get sarcasm today.

Eh CoR is for nubs. Gun flame is better. Just sig up and fire into a blob. Things will die and your range is better.

Isn’t hammer for rev in general a bit….slow?

Reh.5986:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Caedmon.6798:

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Im clearly missing something or I don’t get sarcasm today.

Eh CoR is for nubs. Gun flame is better. Just sig up and fire into a blob. Things will die and your range is better.

Isn’t hammer for rev in general a bit….slow? at both are 1200 range are they not?

hammer on rev vs rifle on warrior, is no contest. Rifle is stronger, faster and killshot alone is darn strong.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Suggestion(s):

- Reduce the healing from the signet and adrenal health or increase the CD of Endure Pain and remove it from the traits and change it to increased resistance application uptime instead.

- Remove the ability to shake off chill/immob/crip from weapon abilities that require movement so it takes actual skill to close gaps or “run away”…and yes remove it from the druids GS as well to make it fair and maybe gain a source of swiftness to compensate…maybe on GS5 after the running or GS3 after the spin.

Healing Signet is fine where it is, I think. It’s the best heal warriors have and they were still struggling with sustain before Adrenal Health got buffed.

Adrenal Health may be due for a shave, but since (iirc) nobody is particularly worried about core warriors, I’d suggest making it so a single Primal Burst doesn’t count as a normal full bar burst for the purposes of the trait. That would slow down the Berserker’s sustain from the trait, and it would also mean they’d be through the initial Berserker state quickness before they could land their next primal burst.

On mobility and movement impairing conditions, warriors can only trait to remove immob with movement skills. True, movement impairment conditions don’t affect the warrior while using a movement skill, but that’s true of everyone and it was brought in as part of a fairly major nerf to warrior mobility.

When speed buffs stopped applying to movement skills, warriors took a big mobility hit (up to 1/3 less distance covered in the same amount of time) whereas classes with mobility tied up in ports and higher speed buffs weren’t as affected. To do that, they just made it so movement skills were immune to speed affecting modifiers. I think you’d be a lot unhappier if that was undone but, as a warrior main, I’d be all for it….

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Reh.5986:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Caedmon.6798:

narcx.3570:

Warrior is fun to play when I’m too drunk to play Rev.

So you don’t have to do dmg like this on a 4sec cd skill with 1200 range ?

Im clearly missing something or I don’t get sarcasm today.

Eh CoR is for nubs. Gun flame is better. Just sig up and fire into a blob. Things will die and your range is better.

Isn’t hammer for rev in general a bit….slow?

high skills damage classes is for noobs who like to be carried by damage (since in gw2 offense > defense no matter how good u are) :} btw cor is AOE and the rift thing bugs alot and becomes invisible damage (no animation sprite) when in larger combats.
And if u block that damage expect some trait to make next skill hit harder XD, besides dodge are 5sec interval while CoR is 4sec CD, yes it is a skill for bad zerg spammers.

On topic:

Warriors mostly berzerker need the same thing that happened to Druids healign, if u want more healing u need to invest more stats, but in warrior is Deffense VS Offense.

IF Anet cared to balance this way like they touched druid, all classes even more stats could come back into spvp…