Guild Wars 2

Hello,

i normally don´t write on the forums, but now i just have too. Two Thiefs ganked about 20 ppl in the EB JP. Nobody could kill them. Perma stealth and insane damage. Both were s/p.

Can we pls see a fix for that? I really don´t mind if i get ganked once in a while, but this is going on for 2 hours now. They just won´t stop.

I managed to survive about 3 min alone against them but in the end i just couldn´t handle the damage.

Yes, A-net Change reveal on thiefs to at least 7 seconds.

If they were 20 vs 1, you all were really bad.

If they were taking them on 1 at a time, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession. You may have to change your build for a more 1v1 situation if you wish to go in there and fight. If you have done all that, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession.

They are not difficult to deal with at all.

You may have gone up against a really good player. If that was the case, just accept you are not as good as you think you are.

As i wrote. They were 2 of them.
We didn´t have enough ppl in the jp. But 5 ppl couldn´t kill them. They just perma stealth all the time.
I was killed 2 times when they both focused me.
One alone i have no problem with. I can´t kill him he can´t kill me. But 5 vs a thief an he don´t die because of perma stealth…. come on…. don´t give me a l2p…. it´s just a broken mechanic

I get ganked by thieves all the time…but that’s because I’m not that great at PvP and they’re the 1v1 PvP class. They’re supposed to be good at killing people fast and then getting away, you can tell from the skills they have access too. But as someone who also plays a thief, we are made out of paper. Get your friends together and the thief is probably dead, don’t face the 1v1 class on your own.

So two thiefs killed group of 20 people while being permastealthed…. wow(how did they even know they were there?), and it was something insane also.. somebody’s imagination?

Well i don´t think that a Thief is that good in 1 vs 1. Yes at the start of the game they were my nemesis, but as i got better they just annoyed me and nothing more. Thiefs just get me in a bigger fight when i already out of cds.
The problem is, you can´t kill them. At least these two. Perma stealth is just to strong. They could abuse the walls for stealth. I don´t know the number of the skill, i guess it was 5, but they were able to stealth on the walls with that.
I could see the red circles where they hitted the wall, but my grenades and flamethrower weren´t good enough to kill them and they never were clearly visible.

Btw. i play Engi, Ranger and Necro. And even on the ranger i can fight them. I say i got about a 50:50 ratio in winning the fight. I´m not so good to be honest.

You’re right, something needs to be done….

Get those two thieves some medals!

Yes a medal for playing a profession with a broken mechanic

I didn´t say they were bad players. They were good, but it´s a difference to be good and to be not to be killed.

But i guess it´s just natural for thiefs to defend their stealth mechanic. Something so strong isn´t given away lightly

People who have difficulty with thieves are just like me who had difficulty with guardians and d/d eles i think. I had to learn from my enemy and play as my enemy to learn how to defeat my enemy. Thieves are far from invincible but you have to be willing to learn and adapt.

Jine.6130:

Hello,

i normally don´t write on the forums, but now i just have too. Two Thiefs ganked about 20 ppl in the EB JP. Nobody could kill them. Perma stealth and insane damage. Both were s/p.

Can we pls see a fix for that? I really don´t mind if i get ganked once in a while, but this is going on for 2 hours now. They just won´t stop.

I managed to survive about 3 min alone against them but in the end i just couldn´t handle the damage.

Sounds more like one or perhaps both, if they were s/p thieves, were using smoke field and the other switch to sb for blast finisher for aoe stealth. I rarely ever visit jp. So I don’t recall there is a wall to use as a stealth. The only walls I know of that can be used for stealth are walls that are destructible in the regular wvw maps and not jp and that’s via cloak and dagger skill, which requires a dagger on off hand.

Anyway if they were using the aoe stealth, which is stealth stacking with the smoke field blast combo is an aoe that will reveal them if the aoe blast accidently hits a nearby target that can take damage, ie player, wall, npc, etc.

invisibility in this game needs a counter. add flares to rangers and flare turrets to engi’s, plz thx bai!

I’m tired of hearing stealth theives saying, “you have to be willing to learn and adapt”

What is there to willing to learn?

What is there to willing to adapt?

Fight Fair without Perma-Stealth-Cheating, than we can be willing to adapt and learn

Other than that, it’s all Hypocrisy talk.

So let me get this straight. Two thieves join together to alternately stealth each other, gang up to “focus” kill you while your 18 other buddies don’t do anything to help you, and you think thieves need to be nerfed as a result? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.

18 players should have been able to chain stun the hell out of those two thieves who had to be right on top of you to kill you. Stealth or not, if you were dying, EVERYBODY had to know pretty much exactly where they were.

These kinds of lame kitten posts are getting pretty old …

These threads always remind me of this –
http://youtu.be/H9tMXKkpBXQ?t=2m22s

As i wrote above. 5 vs 1 was the greatest difference in number. Everyone was in there by himself at the beginning. No groups or guilds.
The place was at the entrance to the dark part. Rigth at the fire where you get those torches.
Apperently on those walls you can stealth.

Well my opinion stands…. perma stealth is just a broken mechanic. Get rid of it and let the Thiefs adapt to that….

Dedlaw.9130:

These threads always remind me of this –
http://youtu.be/H9tMXKkpBXQ?t=2m22s

It makes me think of “my favorite death scene of all time [HD]” on youtube. I would link it, but the mods would go all ragey on me.

It’s easy to pick the bad players out in this game. They smell of fear and give wet handshakes

The more things change….

I don’t understand how two thieves can even achieve a single kill against 5 players. All you have to do is mass res your downed friends when it happens!

Jine.6130:

Perma stealth and insane damage. Both were s/p.

I think your main problem is you have no idea how thief works, and you need to learn how it works if you want to fight them. I came to this conclusion by you saying that sword/pistol thieves were permastealthed. S/P Thief doesnt have perma stealth, it doesnt even come reasonably close. L2P applies here.

OP did the thought occur to you
ever
that you should get better at the game mayhaps? Before appealing to the game developers? That’s like asking for the queen in Chess to get nerfed. (Actually thieves are more like knights.)

There are also anti-stealth traps you know.

wish.1027:

I think your main problem is you have no idea how thief works, and you need to learn how it works if you want to fight them. I came to this conclusion by you saying that sword/pistol thieves were permastealthed. S/P Thief doesnt have perma stealth, it doesnt even come reasonably close. L2P applies here.

This. Their problem was more likely well-placed blinds by skilled players in addition to some stealths, and that he/they didn’t recognize that speaks volumes, no offense.

Those crazy Sword/Pistol thieves and their easily achievable permastealthing capabilities. How one weapon set could be allowed to be so powerful I simply do not know.

If you are in a group and are vs theives I find the best time to kill them is when they are trying to finish downed players.

They are squishy and for 3-4 seconds you know exactly where they are whether they are stealth or not.. so instead of trying to rez your poor friend just spam the hell out of their locations and either you’ll kill the thief or they will back off to heal and then you can res.

They could shadow step stomp but not too often.

Cactus.2710:

So let me get this straight. Two thieves join together to alternately stealth each other, gang up to “focus” kill you while your 18 other buddies don’t do anything to help you, and you think thieves need to be nerfed as a result? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.

18 players should have been able to chain stun the hell out of those two thieves who had to be right on top of you to kill you. Stealth or not, if you were dying, EVERYBODY had to know pretty much exactly where they were.

These kinds of lame kitten posts are getting pretty old …

Chain stunning a thief is a nice idea but with so many teleporting stunbreaks it’s laughable to any thief who can still press buttons on his keyboard. Hell, I play a thief and I think we’re overpowered. All you need to do is hang back until the enemy moves on and then attack, repeat ad nauseum, you can never be killed and the bags flow freely.

I like how only 1 poster noticed S/P thief has no stealth on the weapon set. It’s the only no-stealth thief build except for P/P (ranged).

Zephyrus.9680:

I like how only 1 poster noticed S/P thief has no stealth on the weapon set. It’s the only no-stealth thief build except for P/P (ranged).

S/P with SB can achieve permanent stealth. However, this of course can only really be effective outside of combat, which may or may not have occurred to OP. He could have been complaining they’d pop out of stealth, insta-gib them, then go right back to combo stealthing.

Though, who knows, I’d say it’s quite probable OP isn’t exactly the most seasoned WvW player and thus falls prey to the sub-par thief quite often.

I would much rather have them give thieves a perma-stealth utility (similar to rouges in WoW), bump up the revealed time, and have them de-stealth when they’re hit.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF RUNNING AFTER A PERMA THIEF TO AT LEAST TRY AND KILL HIM AS A 2000h+ THIEF MYSELF! IMPLEMENT MORE EFFORT IN CONTESTING A KITTEN FORT!!!

Zephyrus.9680:

I like how only 1 poster noticed S/P thief has no stealth on the weapon set. It’s the only no-stealth thief build except for P/P (ranged).

Shortbow have no built-in weapon skill to stealth too, if no smoke field utility is used.

If 2 thieves really works out perma-stealth, more likely they have either mainhand on swap, or work together to use smoke field + blast finish combo.

Yes the 2 thieves deserve medals.

Have seen so many postst about the broken thief and such (and normally I just cackle and carry on).. However, it was my curiosity that made me roll a thief, pure for PvP. My opinion about the class: Even a brain dead monkey with no arms can play it.

Seriously (I know there are some very good thieves around, no worries), some looking at my skills, some traiting, and I was able to become top player in kills without any skill involved..

If I should roll me a ranger (my main is one) and head to PvP, it would take some days/weeks even to get familiar with the profession and become a top player.

TL;DR: Thief’s mechanics aren’t broken, but it’s learning curve is absent, thus being the ideal profession for n00b players: “I play one hour a week and I own everything on the map”

Don’t shoot me please, just my opinion..
(and should you shoot me, don’t do it from stealth :p )

Jine.6130:

I could see the red circles where they hitted the wall, but my grenades and flamethrower weren´t good enough to kill them and they never were clearly visible.

Man, this is almost as gold as “I saw a kittenton of red circles from cluster bombs”. OP, please learn what you are talking about.

2 vs 20 I have seen this kind of fights countless times, really this happens. The fact that this keeps coming up in the forum is because WvW is not just a game for elitists atm.

A lot of casual players just login to do whatever fun they want and they happen to meet these 2 elite coordinated players who are trained to kill. And then in the future probably only elitists will be playing the game when the casual players find other new games to kill time because this is kind of stressful expecting getting hunted by thieves.

Easy as that. People who defend thief tend to be elitists and skillful. People who complain are casuals. Otherwise, I feel thief builds are fine as it is. However, it is easily used to troll people whenever you want (does not have to be skillful to do that) because of the nature of perma stealth. It’s human nature to fear what you cannot see. :P

The easy solution is for ANet to give every class a mechanic that’s equally frustrating to Thieves. Then we can all go around trolling and griefing each other.

Ashlov.3819:

The easy solution is for ANet to give every class a mechanic that’s equally frustrating to Thieves. Then we can all go around trolling and griefing each other.

I call dibs on “stop hitting yourself!”

Every time the thief activates an ability, he hits himself and gets knocked down.

This thread is a wonder:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Level-80-D-P-in-WvW-Where-am-I-going-wrong

If you want to hear from a thief that
- thieves are OP
- perma-stealth exists and that it makes you unkillable
- perma-stealth thieves have still hudge damage

you’d better present yourself as a thief.

Some delicious parts:

“Standard perma-stealth build of 0/30/30/10/0 outputs enough damage. Heavies will take time to kill but you should be completely unkillable using perma-stealth.”

“On a better note I did manage to engage in and win a 2v1 against a Mesmer and Ranger. It wasn’t the most spectacular of fights but I was quite pleased considering my inexperience so it was a morale victory to say the least.”

And top of the top, they feel that not being able to kill someone while more numerous is “incredibly frustrating” :

“A similar thing happened with an Elementalist, only it was myself and 2 others versus her and despite a good minute of combat she must have got bored and decided to retreat to a Keep with a sizeable amount of health still intact. I have to admit, that fight was incredibly frustrating.”

Well that is exactly what thieves do to all other classes in a much bigger ratio.

But ok, it is just a
-L2P issue
-You just have to know where thief is and what he will do
-If he let you, you win

It seems Thief community feets perfectly well with profession mentality.

To OP. A s/p thief does not have access to perma stealth alone. If 20 of you are letting a two man thief team stand around combo fielding you are all in need of some serious pvp experience.

Kicast.1459:

This thread is a wonder:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Level-80-D-P-in-WvW-Where-am-I-going-wrong

If you want to hear from a thief that
- thieves are OP
- perma-stealth exists and that it makes you unkillable
- perma-stealth thieves have still hudge damage

you’d better present yourself as a thief.

Some delicious parts:

“Standard perma-stealth build of 0/30/30/10/0 outputs enough damage. Heavies will take time to kill but you should be completely unkillable using perma-stealth.”

“On a better note I did manage to engage in and win a 2v1 against a Mesmer and Ranger. It wasn’t the most spectacular of fights but I was quite pleased considering my inexperience so it was a morale victory to say the least.”

And top of the top, they feel that not being able to kill someone while more numerous is “incredibly frustrating” :

“A similar thing happened with an Elementalist, only it was myself and 2 others versus her and despite a good minute of combat she must have got bored and decided to retreat to a Keep with a sizeable amount of health still intact. I have to admit, that fight was incredibly frustrating.”

Well that is exactly what thieves do to all other classes in a much bigger ratio.

But ok, it is just a
-L2P issue
-You just have to know where thief is and what he will do
-If he let you, you win

It seems Thief community feets perfectly well with profession mentality.

I like the part where you paraphrase that link in a way totally different than the content warrants. That player was frustrated because, as a thief, he was struggling to kill anything, even in 1v1s. The comment about an ele was stating that even with a numbers advantage he couldn’t kill the ele (because good ele’s are fuggin unkillable) and the person who said “you’ll be invincible with your perma stealth” is a well known thief forum troll.

Nice try though.

I don’t think of Thieves being as problematic at all. First of all, in which context those thieves were killing the players? Something like this?:

1. Thieves specifically tailored to roaming/duels, having full exotics/ascendant gear, traited specifically to kill fast and having easy access to retreat skills in case of facing strong opposition, and which are using -expensive- food enhancements in order to better do they task.

1. Thieves also controlled by players devoted mostly to roaming/duels, with extensive experience in 1 vs 1/x combat which actively search for targets, with the solely purpose of killing players, having such specific kind of mentality and behavior.

…Which catch and kill some random players mostly not tailored in traits and gear to duels, with low/no experience in roaming, which probably didn’t even eat food enhancers and which attitude was probably to elude to fight at all cost except once in a zerg?

Because if that was the scenary I find those deaths justified and no “omg thives op” at all. To some extent the game is very balanced, is really HARD for any good player of any class to beat two enemy good players if everyone is traited for 1 vs 1.

In this game builds made for guild vs guild oftenly doesn’t work too well in 1 vs 1. I refuse to accept that 5 good players can’t beat 2 good players if they play in the same conditions. Which drives me to the conclusion that you where not 5 duel players but just 5 random pugs with no focus/gear/food/mentaliy to duel, in which case a defeat is just normal. I’m saying this as a Guardian/Warrior player, I dont think that Thieves are so hard, despite I known that with some builds to outmatch a foe in duels is impossible. Solution: rebuild your character to play in those situations or evade chances of being camped alone if your regular build is meant to play in large groups.

Burnfall.9573:

I’m tired of hearing stealth theives saying, “you have to be willing to learn and adapt”

What is there to willing to learn?

The OP can’t even distinguish the weapons used. So, yeah, a bit of learning can not harm.

People complain about thiefs too much, they are a little annoying to fight but you don’t have to fight them, 9 times out of 10 if you knockem around a bit and show your not going to be downed easily you can walk away from a fight with one.

On my guardian they usually run away from me, on my mesmer they usually are willing to let me just go away after a few minutes of me confusing their butts.

1v1 thiefs in wvw is a waste of time, I rather not give them the satisfaction of being able to draw a fight out long enough to kill me and just ignore them.

Sword/Pistol?

You do realize that’s the weapon set with about the least amount of stealth, right? In fact, none of their weapon abilities can be used to get stealth on their own. (Now Dagger/Pistol. That’s a different story.)

Anyway, even as a thief, I admit that in 1v1 situations, thieves can have just a bit too much stealth going on. I’ve fought a dagger/pistol thief who couldn’t really kill me, but every time I tried to get him, he’d vanish into stealth and recover.

That said, outside of 1v1s, Thieves are pretty awful. No 1200 range weapons. Limited survivability when faced against a zerg. Condition removal requires either stealth, spamming a skill, or making sure a utility is slotted.

It’s kind of funny that we had this balance pass on traits and skills, and all it really did was make these “ganker” perma-stealth style thieves even more important. Thieves don’t really have many other options.

Thieves are no more or less powerful than Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers, or Elementalists. All of these classes are more valuable to a group. I’m sorry, but if you play one of these classes your complaints are null and void.

While stealth is powerful, it’s all the thief class has to hold it together and any adjustment to stealth (or initiative regen which is the real problem if you actually knew anything about the class) would require enormous boosts in nearly every other aspect of the class as a whole.

Change leap finishers through smoke fields to give Aegis to everyone and call it a day so we can move onto the next thief complaint until we finally get around to fixing it.

A good thieve can win 1 v 1 most of the time, even 5 v 1 if the 5 in the scenario are bad as kitten but 20 v 2? You must be either afk, kittened or both at once for that to happen. Their burst is absurd yes but anything that touches them kills them. Now with the changes to blind I must admit the class became a little too strong in the dueling department since not everyone is in pair with the skill lvl needed to beat other players of similar skill who play the thief class however, the right way to do this is not by nerfing them to the ground, all their need is less stealth, far less stealth with a little bit more sustain while not in stealth.

In every other mmo stealth is to be used wisely not spammed for an easy win like in this game.

It’s the combination of relatively high damage and being able to run away and reset the fight whenever they want that is the issue.

Especially in the JP, if a player goes toe to toe with a thief, they run, reset, and harass until the player makes a mistake.

Like all the white knights in here say, this is just one more anti-thief thread, learn to play, etc… etc…

But, does any other profession have so many complaint threads? Combined they wouldn’t compare to those for Thieves. Obviously there’s nothing wrong with stealth and their escape mechanics with so many threads saying it’s broken, just a bunch of “L2P” players. /s

D/D bunker eles, before the last couple updates were just as broken and they got adjusted, but the complaint threads on Invinci-D/D eles was never anywhere near as many as for Thieves.

Atherakhia.4086:

Thieves are no more or less powerful than Mesmers, Guardians, Rangers, or Elementalists. All of these classes are more valuable to a group. I’m sorry, but if you play one of these classes your complaints are null and void.

While stealth is powerful, it’s all the thief class has to hold it together and any adjustment to stealth (or initiative regen which is the real problem if you actually knew anything about the class) would require enormous boosts in nearly every other aspect of the class as a whole.

Change leap finishers through smoke fields to give Aegis to everyone and call it a day so we can move onto the next thief complaint until we finally get around to fixing it.

Boosting the rest of the thief class would be great. It bring out far more diversity in builds, and perhaps make thieves useful in the zerg.

They can’t do it though, because stealth is so powerful. You think the thief threads are bad now, imagine if that happened.

Stealth is actually holding the thief class back.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If they were 20 vs 1, you all were really bad.

If they were taking them on 1 at a time, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession. You may have to change your build for a more 1v1 situation if you wish to go in there and fight. If you have done all that, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession.

They are not difficult to deal with at all.

You may have gone up against a really good player. If that was the case, just accept you are not as good as you think you are.

No it has nothing to do with being really bad. There have been a plethora of videos of terrible, and I emphasize the word TERRIBLE thieves up to 7v1 groups and taking them cleanly out.

All they have to do is just disengage the fight and leave freely or just wait for the decent time to just strike each one. Neither require any skill. I suppose a counter would be a well placed stealth trap and the thief would have to be dumber than dumb to trigger it, then its GG for the thief.

If a class can disengage and engage freely at will, there isn’t much a group can do against a thief with 0 skill if the thief is persistent.

Repeating myself from here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-uncatchable/page/2

Advice to budding developers (because Anet’s won’t learn): NEVER put stealth classes in a mulitplayer game.

Stealth is quite simply a gamebreaker that is no fun to come up against.

DeadlySynz.3471:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If they were 20 vs 1, you all were really bad.

If they were taking them on 1 at a time, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession. You may have to change your build for a more 1v1 situation if you wish to go in there and fight. If you have done all that, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession.

They are not difficult to deal with at all.

You may have gone up against a really good player. If that was the case, just accept you are not as good as you think you are.

No it has nothing to do with being really bad. There have been a plethora of videos of terrible, and I emphasize the word TERRIBLE thieves up to 7v1 groups and taking them cleanly out.

All they have to do is just disengage the fight and leave freely or just wait for the decent time to just strike each one. Neither require any skill. I suppose a counter would be a well placed stealth trap and the thief would have to be dumber than dumb to trigger it, then its GG for the thief.

If a class can disengage and engage freely at will, there isn’t much a group can do against a thief with 0 skill if the thief is persistent.

No, it is a case of being really bad. Thieves are not hard to deal with at all. You just have to learn how to deal with them.

Esprit Dumort.3109:

D/D bunker eles, before the last couple updates were just as broken and they got adjusted, but the complaint threads on Invinci-D/D eles was never anywhere near as many as for Thieves.

Thieves writes everywhere L2P

Then comes out with those sentences that tells you how they don t even know the difference between PvP and WWW.

Its not that hard to understand why a bunnker D/D ele is not suited for WWW if you have an idea of what www is.

If you still lack the knowledge you should just read devs sotg sometimes….

P.S: hint: low DPS is not good for roaming (a balanced build can t kill ANY bunker), while in large scale fight you can t even get in range alive….you basically can kill only roaming GC….

wish.1027:

Jine.6130:

Perma stealth and insane damage. Both were s/p.

I think your main problem is you have no idea how thief works, and you need to learn how it works if you want to fight them. I came to this conclusion by you saying that sword/pistol thieves were permastealthed. S/P Thief doesnt have perma stealth, it doesnt even come reasonably close. L2P applies here.

Maybe it wasn’t a sword but a big big dagger …