Guild Wars 2

Tribio.8531:

Aberrant.6749:

I’ve never understood why perma-stealth was that big of an issue… if they are just staying in stealth then they aren’t really doing anything… the only thing I can think of is C&D off of something to contest… which is a bug they need to fix (and tried to fix in the past, but it didn’t work)

Saw a video earlier today around here that illustrated this nicely:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ULyumpENjo

In this vid one thief is perma-AoE-stealthing, so you have no idea how many (if any) players are with him. And all it takes is one mesmer to portal bomb..

You do know you can counter that right? He’s gotta stay in that field to keep spamming the blast. It’s a big HERE I AM sign above his head. But instead of doing things like that guardian at the end using binding blade to pull him out of it they all just spam 1 and try to mele inside the blind field…

Lets make this very clear. Thief is underpowered in spvp and tourny, underpowered in wvw zerg fight. Only has some up-hand as scout, roamer or troll in wvw.

I normally don’t put much in forums, but i couldn’t resist.
First off, really? I mean really? You play and get ganked a few times, yes it’s annoying. But the first thing you do is get frustrated, get on the forums and complain that thieves are unstoppable because of perma stealth? Really? You don’t ask yourself the question wether they were skilled players and maybe they were a bit better skilled then you?
So you want them to have no stealth, no cripple abilities. You want them to stand still as well and don’t hit you so you can kill them better? Will you be happy then?
I mean come on man, i get killed all the time and yes i am a thief. Do i need to come on the forums and complain about the clones of a class, because i’m confused and don’t know which one to kill.
No they kill me because they are better then me and i’m crap. Meaning i’ll have to learn how to play my class and how other classes play and get better.

And i don’t want to say that some of the remarks aren’t true, but you had to rectify your answer later in the post, meaning your initial post was out off frustration.
Don’t expect to kill everyone and don’t get killed yourself. There will always be a better player or better class.

Zorlack.4052:

There will always be a better player

Completely true that..

or better class.

And this shouldn’t be true.. There is no such thing as the better class (normally). In an honest game, the outcome of a battle would depende solely on the player skills..

Tribio.8531:

Zorlack.4052:

There will always be a better player

Completely true that..

or better class.

And this shouldn’t be true.. There is no such thing as the better class (normally). In an honest game, the outcome of a battle would depende solely on the player skills..

What game is 100% balanced for every XvX, and has no class stronger vs any other class in any situation? I mean other than hello kitty sunshine. PvP in that game is pretty kittening boss.

Zorlack.4052:

There will always be a better player or better build.

Edited it, since I assume this is what you meant?

Tribio.8531:

Xirin.8593:

I don’t QQ about other class abilities. Hence my reference to Confusion and Retaliation, both of which were strong counters to Thief. Same with the pre-nerf Regen Bunker Ranger build, which I had a very hard time fighting against. I did not demand anything be done about these.

Condition removal -> Confusion countered
Regeneration -> Retalation countered
? -> Stealth countered

See the point?

Xirin.8593:

I have all 8 classes at 80, like many people do. About 50% of leveling was done in WvW, for all classes.

So is my assumption correct that during all those months in WvW with those chars you were never bugged by a thief that tried to kill you, didn’t succeed, and then just stealthed away?
As mentioned: I have no problems losing a battle against a thief, if that thief is a good player.. Unfortunately, even a brain dead monkey with no arms can main a thief and mess around..
(I do know there are some very good thieves around there, no offence meant to those players)

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player. Stealth is designed to counter targeted skills. aka Stealth is designed to counter the fact that other classes can simply stand there and take the damage to the face and a thief cannot.

AOE and situational awareness counter stealth (and yes stealth traps do too). You know, 100%, for a fact that a dagger-mainhand thief is going to generally want to be behind you because his burst relies on it. So make it hard to get behind you. You know that dagger offhand is going to try to stay on top of you for CnD. Stealth, with few exceptions, only lasts 4 seconds max. All you have to do is make yourself hard to hit for 4 seconds. If I can do it on my lvl 24 uplevel ranger, you can do it on your lvl 80 whatever.

I kill thieves while they are stealthed every…single…. day because I can predict their movements.

Hell, I was on a BL yesterday running a D/D thief, which I play with reckless abandon, and without stealth reliance and I was still wrecking people both 1v1 and in a group setting skirmishing on the edges of a zvz. People cry about thieves because they die to them. Sorry your bunker guardian or staff ele or other group build doesn’t work in a 1v1 against a duelist.

Stealth is not the reason the thief killed you in 90% of the situations. Most people die to thieves because they play by the thief’s rules. Get conned into fighting on a thief’s terms and you will lose.

Stealth hard counters people who can’t think. Unfortunately this seems to be a large chunk of the wvw populace.

Renxian.6982:

there is a thing called CD that says you don t want to waste your aoe randomly….

You know, 100%, for a fact that a dagger-mainhand thief is going to generally want to be behind you because his burst relies on it. So make it hard to get behind you. You know that dagger offhand is going to try to stay on top of you for CnD. Stealth, with few exceptions, only lasts 4 seconds max. All you have to do is make yourself hard to hit for 4 seconds. If I can do it on my lvl 24 uplevel ranger, you can do it on your lvl 80 whatever.

I kill thieves while they are stealthed every…single…. day because I can predict their movements.

Actually from what you say seems to me you kill thieves because you only meets bad players that are predictable…

Thus you don t seems to understand what s wrong with stealth …

When you will meet a player that is not a beginner totally predictable you will understand better the issue.

LordByron.8369:

Renxian.6982:

there is a thing called CD that says you don t want to waste your aoe randomly….

You know, 100%, for a fact that a dagger-mainhand thief is going to generally want to be behind you because his burst relies on it. So make it hard to get behind you. You know that dagger offhand is going to try to stay on top of you for CnD. Stealth, with few exceptions, only lasts 4 seconds max. All you have to do is make yourself hard to hit for 4 seconds. If I can do it on my lvl 24 uplevel ranger, you can do it on your lvl 80 whatever.

I kill thieves while they are stealthed every…single…. day because I can predict their movements.

Actually from what you say seems to me you kill thieves because you only meets bad players that are predictable…

Thus you don t seems to understand what s wrong with stealth …

When you will meet a player that is not a beginner totally predictable you will understand better the issue.

It does not matter if the PLAYER is predictable because the mechanic he is operating with IS. Don’t want to die to a thief?

1. Don’t stand around waiting for him to shove his dagger up your anus.

2. Stop trying to duel a duelist.

3. Stop complaining just cause “OMG CAN’T SEE WUT DO?”

I am fully, 100% aware of the strengths and weaknesses of stealth as I main a thief. I understand that it is a powerful deception skill. However, stealth isn’t the reason you died. S/D is proof of that.

Stealth is powerful because it creates uncertainty. However, the uncertainty is no less powerful than the possibility that say…your full burst rotation gets countered by a guardian/warrior popping an invuln. The only difference is that stealth operates as an evasive mechanic rather than a mitigation mechanic. The thief is still vulnerable if you understand how his rotation works. It’s why I 1v1 kill the very same thieves that I watch kill clueless groups of randoms.

You people complain endlessly about a thief sniping your zerg runner build while d/d ele’s walk around facetanking groups of 10 and getting away anyway. It’s okay for ele’s and mesmers to be good at everything, and guardians, warriors, and necros to dominate zerg running, but bad for thieves to be good in one minor area of wvw in which they are required to specialize to the point of being mostly incapable of large scale group combat?

We are the only class in game without a 1200 range weapon option. We specialize in small scale and 1v1 melee combat. The solution is simple. DON’T FIGHT US WHEN IT’S BLATANTLY TO OUR ADVANTAGE. If you play on the thief’s terms then you may as well be fighting against a hammer guardian with your back to a cliff.

S/P is not a stealthy setup. I think you mean S/D

Your complaining about thieves yet providing very little detail tells me you may be trolling. Who knows of those 20 killed were below Lvl 80 and the 2 thieves were very well geared.

The stealth issue is Cloak and Dagger and Black Powder+Heart Seeker. S/P does not get these capabilities. This is where your complaint falls short.

Plus 2 Thieves will have 2 Shadow Refuge plus their own normal stealth abilities. That is the norm. But when you say S/P I know now your story is more out of anger due to the people that took them on and lost. Well, that and your details are very lacking.

Bad players get good players nerfed.

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Renxian.6982:

Don’t want to die to a thief? Don’t stand around waiting for him to shove his dagger up your anus.

Ok, so just keep running then, so the thief has a clear view of your back for his backstab (thief prolly will go faster in stealth also)? Oh, or do you mean running backwards, facing his last position? In that case, you bet you’ll get spiked..
Or am I missing something obvious here?

Iluth.6875:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If they were 20 vs 1, you all were really bad.

If they were taking them on 1 at a time, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession. You may have to change your build for a more 1v1 situation if you wish to go in there and fight. If you have done all that, you just need to learn how to deal with them in relation to your profession.

They are not difficult to deal with at all.

Why is it that nobody has to learn how to beat any other class in the game except for thieves?

Why is it that nobody has to learn how to beat an engi, a warr, a ranger, a necro, a guard or an ele (mesmer is another story, but that’s another topic)

The problem with thieves is that they have above bunker levels of survivability, note I didn’t say mitigation, combined with insane damage. That needs fixing. And you can cry about learning to play all you like, but it’s really just a case of people defending their thieves because they’re terrified of getting nerfed.

Why is it that people don’t want to step up their game and instead ask for changes to compensate?

I used to have trouble with mesmers until the confusion nerf. I had planned on playing that class to understand it more. I do have trouble with some of them rangers, specifically the ones that can take no damage and not be cc for a good 15 seconds.

I play a warrior. I don’t care to play the thief. Way to squishy and their traits are not very group oriented. There have been so many times that all I have to do is look for the chopping animation of my axe, swinging animation of my hammer, and the thief is dead.

Stealth doesn’t stop damage.

Stealth doesn’t stop CC, maybe imobolize but that is a condition and stealth can cleanse that if traited.

It isn’t hard to deal with them at all. Just because they stealthed doesn’t mean they have left, they still think they have an advantage and press on, ultimately they die because think they are going against someone that hasn’t improved their game.

Step up your game.

Erzian.5218:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Your argument is moot, Stealth is not infinite by its self. It requires at least 2 skills plus initiative…I understand what you’re trying to say but a infinite unblockable skill is not comparable.

I don’t understand why people say running is your best option to fight a thief because you’ll never kill them. Honestly just learn to fight them and stop running. If you fight a thief and get them low, they will run and reset the fight. Now you can get out of combat and WP or get more distance, stop just trying to blow all your skills to run away, you’re probably not going to get away.

Great posts on this page. Renxian, I like your style.

Zikory.6871:

Erzian.5218:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Your argument is moot, Stealth is not infinite by its self. It requires at least 2 skills plus initiative…I understand what you’re trying to say but a infinite unblockable skill is not comparable.

Oh I see, lets make it require 1-2 traits and a certain weaponset then.

Furthermore I suggest looking up at least one of the following terms: irony, exaggeration

Erzian.5218:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Sure, because not being able to SEE your target is the same as not being able to hurt it…

Nonetheless, you could go ahead and do that and it would make 0 difference to me. Net affect is the same. Player is choosing damage avoidance at the cost of damage dealing.

More importantly, there is only one thief spec that can actually stay invisible, all others are popping in and out of invisi. The spec that has the highest stealth up time has to sacrifice for it. Taking initiative regen means sacrificing other traits or utility skills. If they do not spec initiative regen, then they cannot maintain stealth due to the heavy initiative costs associated with it. Dagger offhand specs cannot achieve perma stealth ever, and stealthing in general requires them to touch you from sneezing range.

Why exactly can people not see that overall class balance is pretty good. Why can’t people see that each class is bringing a distinct skillset to the game, and thus classes are stronger in some situations than other classes and weaker in some situations than other classes. With the exception of Mesmer and ele, which are good in all situations.

Tribio.8531:

Renxian.6982:

Don’t want to die to a thief? Don’t stand around waiting for him to shove his dagger up your anus.

Ok, so just keep running then, so the thief has a clear view of your back for his backstab (thief prolly will go faster in stealth also)? Oh, or do you mean running backwards, facing his last position? In that case, you bet you’ll get spiked..
Or am I missing something obvious here?

Thief can run faster in stealth IF traited for it but that will not completely counteract smart play. I am not saying to run backwards, I am saying to move evasively towards safety. that means things like randomly changing the direction you face slightly to make it harder to stab you in the butt, dodge rolls, gap openers. If a thief blows his “backstab” stabbing you in the face he loses 50% of his burst

If he is dagger offhand it’s even easier. Make it nearly impossible for him to land the CnD (which requires extreme melee range to land reliably) and he cannot maintain stealth. Outside of stealth he is now vulnerable to your full arsenal. Some classes have access to low cd knockbacks that can be a nightmare to deal with as a thief.

The biggest advice I can give is stop standing around waiting to die. I see way too many players just immediately go full kitten when I stealth and sit around waiting for me to shank them. ALWAYS keep moving. The more initiative/utilities/time/health/etc I have to burn trying to land a burst spike on you the more likely I am to end up leaving…or dying if I screw up. Thief is extremely reliant on controlling the fight, take that away from it and it is at a disadvantage.

For as powerful as you all make stealth appear to be, you’d expect the thief to be some kind of unstoppable juggernaut in this game. It’s not. In any capacity. Want to talk about good roamers? Thieves, Eles, Guardians, Mesmers, and Rangers are each equally viable despit stealth the way it is now. Want to talk about zergs? Thieves are functionally useless. Want to talk about burst? Mesmers, Warriors, and Elementalists are capable of more. Want to talk about mitigating damage? The thief can’t… it has only avoidance. Want to talk about avoidance? Elementalists and Mesmers regain vigor faster, and Thieves have less health.

So yes, stealth is powerful. But the thief class apparently isn’t gaining so much of an advantage to put it above more than half the classes out there. And you all are here thinking you’d get away with adjusting stealth in some fashion without dramatic improvements elsewhere?

The only thing that could possibly even be considered at this point is an adjustment to the leap finisher to smoke field from granting stealth to instead provide protection or aegis. I’d argue this isn’t even the problem as I see nothing wrong with perma-stealth in theory. I only see a problem with not seeing a noticeable damage reduction in exchange for the added utility being provided. And this is an issue with initiative regen (the root of all your complaints if only you all played thieves to the same level you’re playing forum warriors).

It’s amazing how little most people know about thieves. Please people, roll a thief and learn their mechanics if you can’t fight against one. Putting up threads about how OP another class seems when you don’t understand how they work does nothing productive outside of showing your ignorance and poor attitude.

Tribio.8531:

Zorlack.4052:

There will always be a better player or better build.

Edited it, since I assume this is what you meant?

It is sort of what i meant. I also mean that if it’s not the thief they can complain about it will be another class. If he got ganked by two mesmers this post would be about mesmers. As i said there will always be a better player, whatever class he plays. Lern from dying and try to get him next time

It’s always the same as it was in WoW and rogues constantly complaining how bad their class is.
Two organized thief players will always kill something – even in a group of 5 or 6 and escape, because the whole mechanic give huge advantages to the thieves. The jumping puzzle stairs are completely dark and favors classes with high mobility and escape abilities.
The only skill you really need to kill someone there is to pick the same target as your partner and find your smokefield to escape.
Stealth still needs a rework. It’s just annoying and dumb gameplay, to be able to constantly restealth and escape.
If one of those thieves would have died, he really would have earned a “l2p”.

Atherakhia.4086:

For as powerful as you all make stealth appear to be, you’d expect the thief to be some kind of unstoppable juggernaut in this game. It’s not. In any capacity. Want to talk about good roamers? Thieves, Eles, Guardians, Mesmers, and Rangers are each equally viable despit stealth the way it is now. Want to talk about zergs? Thieves are functionally useless. Want to talk about burst? Mesmers, Warriors, and Elementalists are capable of more. Want to talk about mitigating damage? The thief can’t… it has only avoidance. Want to talk about avoidance? Elementalists and Mesmers regain vigor faster, and Thieves have less health.

So yes, stealth is powerful. But the thief class apparently isn’t gaining so much of an advantage to put it above more than half the classes out there. And you all are here thinking you’d get away with adjusting stealth in some fashion without dramatic improvements elsewhere?

The only thing that could possibly even be considered at this point is an adjustment to the leap finisher to smoke field from granting stealth to instead provide protection or aegis. I’d argue this isn’t even the problem as I see nothing wrong with perma-stealth in theory. I only see a problem with not seeing a noticeable damage reduction in exchange for the added utility being provided. And this is an issue with initiative regen (the root of all your complaints if only you all played thieves to the same level you’re playing forum warriors).

Initiative regen is my only complaint. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having permastealth as long as it’s the focus of their build. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having insane burst, as long as they’ll run out of steam at some point. I have a problem with Thieves that get effectively perma-stealth AND great burst AND great sustain at the cost of low HP/Armor. I wouldn’t mind seeing Thieves get a damage increase, as long as it was for higher burst and way worse Initiative regen.

And, honestly, if they never changed that stuff I wouldn’t even care. The Thief issue isn’t that big a deal. They gank me now and again. Sometimes they try and run away. Most of the time I’m near group members and they stay away.

PinCushion.7390:

Atherakhia.4086:

For as powerful as you all make stealth appear to be, you’d expect the thief to be some kind of unstoppable juggernaut in this game. It’s not. In any capacity. Want to talk about good roamers? Thieves, Eles, Guardians, Mesmers, and Rangers are each equally viable despit stealth the way it is now. Want to talk about zergs? Thieves are functionally useless. Want to talk about burst? Mesmers, Warriors, and Elementalists are capable of more. Want to talk about mitigating damage? The thief can’t… it has only avoidance. Want to talk about avoidance? Elementalists and Mesmers regain vigor faster, and Thieves have less health.

So yes, stealth is powerful. But the thief class apparently isn’t gaining so much of an advantage to put it above more than half the classes out there. And you all are here thinking you’d get away with adjusting stealth in some fashion without dramatic improvements elsewhere?

The only thing that could possibly even be considered at this point is an adjustment to the leap finisher to smoke field from granting stealth to instead provide protection or aegis. I’d argue this isn’t even the problem as I see nothing wrong with perma-stealth in theory. I only see a problem with not seeing a noticeable damage reduction in exchange for the added utility being provided. And this is an issue with initiative regen (the root of all your complaints if only you all played thieves to the same level you’re playing forum warriors).

Initiative regen is my only complaint. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having permastealth as long as it’s the focus of their build. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having insane burst, as long as they’ll run out of steam at some point. I have a problem with Thieves that get effectively perma-stealth AND great burst AND great sustain at the cost of low HP/Armor. I wouldn’t mind seeing Thieves get a damage increase, as long as it was for higher burst and way worse Initiative regen.

And, honestly, if they never changed that stuff I wouldn’t even care. The Thief issue isn’t that big a deal. They gank me now and again. Sometimes they try and run away. Most of the time I’m near group members and they stay away.

And as a Thief, that is my complaint too. The only legitimate complaint people can raise about the Thief class is initiative regen is not properly balanced. Of course you can’t change it without redesigning the class from the ground up either so it’s really going to be up to ANet to dedicate the time and resources to make sure they do it right and don’t end up leaving this game with 7 classes.

Atherakhia.4086:

PinCushion.7390:

Atherakhia.4086:

For as powerful as you all make stealth appear to be, you’d expect the thief to be some kind of unstoppable juggernaut in this game. It’s not. In any capacity. Want to talk about good roamers? Thieves, Eles, Guardians, Mesmers, and Rangers are each equally viable despit stealth the way it is now. Want to talk about zergs? Thieves are functionally useless. Want to talk about burst? Mesmers, Warriors, and Elementalists are capable of more. Want to talk about mitigating damage? The thief can’t… it has only avoidance. Want to talk about avoidance? Elementalists and Mesmers regain vigor faster, and Thieves have less health.

So yes, stealth is powerful. But the thief class apparently isn’t gaining so much of an advantage to put it above more than half the classes out there. And you all are here thinking you’d get away with adjusting stealth in some fashion without dramatic improvements elsewhere?

The only thing that could possibly even be considered at this point is an adjustment to the leap finisher to smoke field from granting stealth to instead provide protection or aegis. I’d argue this isn’t even the problem as I see nothing wrong with perma-stealth in theory. I only see a problem with not seeing a noticeable damage reduction in exchange for the added utility being provided. And this is an issue with initiative regen (the root of all your complaints if only you all played thieves to the same level you’re playing forum warriors).

Initiative regen is my only complaint. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having permastealth as long as it’s the focus of their build. I don’t have a problem with Thieves having insane burst, as long as they’ll run out of steam at some point. I have a problem with Thieves that get effectively perma-stealth AND great burst AND great sustain at the cost of low HP/Armor. I wouldn’t mind seeing Thieves get a damage increase, as long as it was for higher burst and way worse Initiative regen.

And, honestly, if they never changed that stuff I wouldn’t even care. The Thief issue isn’t that big a deal. They gank me now and again. Sometimes they try and run away. Most of the time I’m near group members and they stay away.

And as a Thief, that is my complaint too. The only legitimate complaint people can raise about the Thief class is initiative regen is not properly balanced. Of course you can’t change it without redesigning the class from the ground up either so it’s really going to be up to ANet to dedicate the time and resources to make sure they do it right and don’t end up leaving this game with 7 classes.

whoa, you complaining about having too much initiative?

Here is an easy solution, just imagine you only have 8 initiative instead of 12 or 15. Every time you used more than 9 initiatives you can jump off a cliff. There, that should make you happy for a while.

So many of you… ok. When any of you gets downed everyone else takes their AOEs and nukes the kitten out of the guy’s body.

You’ll melt any thief dumb enough to go for a stomp.

Erzian.5218:

Zikory.6871:

Erzian.5218:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Your argument is moot, Stealth is not infinite by its self. It requires at least 2 skills plus initiative…I understand what you’re trying to say but a infinite unblockable skill is not comparable.

Oh I see, lets make it require 1-2 traits and a certain weaponset then.

Furthermore I suggest looking up at least one of the following terms: irony, exaggeration

So its be an kitten day eh? well i suggest you look up the following terms: invisibility, invincibility. protip stealth only applies one of these two things

protip: none of the 2 terms applies to block because of “unblockable”

Also if you feel the need to discuss about the “idea” of everlasting block you probably don’t know the irony and exaggeration either.

Erzian.5218:

protip: none of the 2 terms applies to block because of “unblockable”

Yes because every class has multiple skills on every weapons in addition to a plethora of utilities that are all unblockable

Stealth should never have been in the game. It’s a boring mechanic, both for the thief and the players facing him / her. Thieves would have been much more fun if they were about fast, hard hitting attacks and lots of evades, while stile being as squishy as they are. This would also provide some sort of learning curve instead of the incredibly simple CnD / BP + Backstab.

I don’t neccesarily think Thieves are too strong, except for a few things like the synergy between Cavaliers gear + Hidden Killer and D/P + Shadow Arts, but these are things I am sure Arena Net will balance out eventually.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Stealth should never have been in the game. It’s a boring mechanic, both for the thief and the players facing him / her.

This is a lot of people’s view. Idk why you chose to play a game where every single class can stealth themselves just by choosing to be a Norn then…

As far as thief goes… I don’t find it boring. It’s a game of cat and mouse… and I’m the cat. Predict where he’s going… avoid/mitigate the damage… and then pounce. These mice even pop out and stay out in the open for a few seconds.

Erzian.5218:

protip: none of the 2 terms applies to block because of “unblockable”

Also if you feel the need to discuss about the “idea” of everlasting block you probably don’t know the irony and exaggeration either.

Please, Do tell, What are you referring to as irony and exaggeration?

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

you are so wrong, my friend…

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

Go one youtube and put WvW solo (Insert and class here) and you’ll find amazing soloists. Yishis is a pro player who’d probably do just as well on any class. He’s hardly a good example of your garden variety thief.

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

Yishis is a great thief no doubt about that but its funny that you would think because he is able to get 18 minutes of footage that this is what he does all day. These are high light reels of a thief that plays in a small group roaming guild. With enough time any class could make a video like this…

Zikory.6871:

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

Yishis is a great thief no doubt about that but its funny that you would think because he is able to get 18 minutes of footage that this is what he does all day. These are high light reels of a thief that plays in a small group roaming guild. With enough time any class could make a video like this…

This. What you don’t see is the 9 other times he got roflstompped by a zerg during that day.

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

No.. jut the end of your credibility

Zikory.6871:

Please, Do tell, What are you referring to as irony and exaggeration?

I have do admit I find it amusing, if people do not understand rhetorical devices and just try to argue, but since you asked for an explanation, there you go

Irony: rhetorical device to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning, in my original post simply the “Good point” because “Stealth does no damage” is not a a good point if it is criticized that thieves can reset/leave combat at will.

Exaggeration is simply the act of overstating/exaggerating (to state/describe something as bigger/smaller/better/worse etc. than it actually is) in my post the comparison of perma-stealth with perma-block. While there is some similarity (likely to prevent death and making it possible to easily get away alive), everlasting block would obviously be worse, since it is harder/nearly impossible to counter because of the limited amount of unblockable skills (which doesn’t change the fact that block does not equal invincibility btw)
The last sentence is a mixture: it is obviously not a serious suggestions to give every class a block skill and even if it shouldn’t last forever.

Original post:

Renxian.6982:

Renxian.6982:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

In just a quick glance. Need more proof you are full of it?

Erzian.5218:

Zikory.6871:

Please, Do tell, What are you referring to as irony and exaggeration?

I have do admit I find it amusing, if people do not understand rhetorical devices and just try to argue, but since you asked for an explanation, there you go

Irony: rhetorical device to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning, in my original post simply the “Good point” because “Stealth does no damage” is not a a good point if it is criticized that thieves can reset/leave combat at will.

Exaggeration is simply the act of overstating/exaggerating (to state/describe something as bigger/smaller/better/worse etc. than it actually is) in my post the comparison of perma-stealth with perma-block. While there is some similarity (likely to prevent death and making it possible to easily get away alive), everlasting block would obviously be worse, since it is harder/nearly impossible to counter because of the limited amount of unblockable skills (which doesn’t change the fact that block does not equal invincibility btw)
The last sentence is a mixture: it is obviously not a serious suggestions to give every class a block skill and even if it shouldn’t last forever.

Original post:

Erzian.5218:

Erzian.5218:

I think the bigger factor that people miss is that:

Stealth deals 0 damage. It is a deception skill. It needs no counter (which it still has btw) because it cannot hurt an opposing player.

Good point, lets increase the duration of all block skills that don’t do damage to infinite because they deal 0 damage and don’t hurt opposing players and they still have counters (unblockable skills).
Oh and don’t forget to give an everlasting block skill to every class that doesn’t have one yet.

Thanks for clearing that up. So what I’m getting from this is you have no valid argument other then “omg OP” People are trying to get constructive feed back for and against stealth yet you find the need to be sarcastic and rhetorical, thus adding nothing constructive to the conversation and pushing this thread closer to getting locked due to being nothing but a troll.

By “overstating/exaggerating” all you’re doing is opening your self up to a controversial conversation which no one will win. Your points are outlandish because of your exaggeration and people will take the “troll bait” to debate you. Even if you truly cared about this subject, you are no longer creditable because you basically fessed up to being a troll.

Next time try to be constructive on the subject of stealth, some people really want to see it fixed and balance for everyone with out breaking the class.

Daendur.2357:

Thedenofsin.7340:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

End thread.

No other profession has this kind of advantage over other players. No other profession can solo groups of players like this. It needs a very heavy nerf.

you are so wrong, my friend…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VREQMoqQUQc

So there he goes, links the second most overpowered thing in existence xD, dagger dagger ele. And thats some pre nerf video as well. The difference between a thief and a general 1vX build is often that the thief is the only one who can effectively burst targets down. Glass mesmer is another but they aren’t as mobile or survivable, and the phant spec needs a nerf anyway, it’s such a retarted spec. The others are essentially type of troll builds that can only defeat those who are foolish enough to keep bashing their heads to the wall.
And really, anyone can make a video where he fights “well” against some rookies* in WvW so linking a wall of videos (or just a video) isn’t much of an argument towards either side. But I suppose that is your point.

*For example the mesmer video. At the end he defeats some two opposing players of which other is some guard who seems to be semi afk, and other is a staff ele who walks backwards and uses keyboard to turn… The fact that he included this in his video tells everything xD.

he said only the thief can. i proved him wrong. now thieves and eles are op.
If someone will post a video of a guardian killing 1vX, guardian will be added to the list of OP profession … then come the necro, the engi end so on.
You are so blinded by your tears that you can’t even see your own bullkitten.
If video cannot be taken as an argument i guess random sentences about opness can… nice logic.

Daendur.2357:

If video cannot be taken as an argument i guess random sentences about opness can… nice logic.

Streaming gameplay could be a good argument, videos that are just made to be fun to watch however, do not.

2 Thieves killed 20 people? Sounds like they were either hacking or you guys suck.

@Zikory.6871: I already stated why I consider stealth op in WvW (only there) on page 2. Don’t try to blame me for your laziness

Am I the only one still trying to figure out how a s/p (pistol whip) perma stealthed?!?!?

Jine.6130:

Perma stealth is just to strong. They could abuse the walls for stealth. I don´t know the number of the skill, i guess it was 5, but they were able to stealth on the walls with that.
I could see the red circles where they hitted the wall, but my grenades and flamethrower weren´t good enough to kill them and they never were clearly visible.

See? Why are you even wondering how can they, the OP explained it perfectly well. (el oh el)

Lol I don’t even think there are targetable walls in the JP to exploit the c&d…

Svarty.8019:

Repeating myself from here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-uncatchable/page/2

Advice to budding developers (because Anet’s won’t learn): NEVER put stealth classes in a mulitplayer game.

Stealth is quite simply a gamebreaker that is no fun to come up against.

I remember waaaay back when ArenaNet first announced the Thief, they said that stealth was utilitarian and that they didn’t want Thieves to be in stealth all the time.

What a joke that turned out to be.

ArenaNet went with Thief instead of Assassin for a reason, but the balance team sure is doing their best to change that.