Guild Wars 2

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

On paper this sounds like a good plan.
In reality the server with the higher population will still win because they will be able to cover all maps while the other 2 might be able to cover 2 at the most.

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

In the low tiers, the game is played mostly by pugs. If both weaker servers were dominated by a few large guilds, those guild leaders could get together with another server’s leaders and possibly form an alliance. And that’s already a rare enough sight.

As it is, with almost every player being a pug, there’s almost zero chance of an alliance forming and hold — all it takes is one tower to be taken and the whole thing is off.

Brando.1374:

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

On paper this sounds like a good plan.
In reality the server with the higher population will still win because they will be able to cover all maps while the other 2 might be able to cover 2 at the most.

But what it does do is allow for better fights, some sense of accomplishment and a more fun instead of getting spawncamped for a week.

If #10 and #9 go up against #2, if they have any sense then they better gang up on #2.

+1000 Prime.

Brando.1374:

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

On paper this sounds like a good plan.
In reality the server with the higher population will still win because they will be able to cover all maps while the other 2 might be able to cover 2 at the most.

Cover 1 map and get bloodlust buff? Give up on 2 maps where the strongest team gets 0 kills. Bloodlust can potentially award a lot of pts. Someone need to math it out.

But yeah, if you’re out manned and out skilled, then there really is no way of winning. The game would be broken if it did happen.

I can only suggest that they give an award for being “most outmanned” at the end of the season. At least some kind of recognition for trying vs impossible odds.

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

hey, I tried.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Dear-low-wvw-pop-servers

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

It really is sad that you need MORE data to figure out what is going to happen. Your concern about variety should be irrelevant, players concerns on the other hand should be relevant.

Solstice.1097:

Prime.8792:

It’s obvious that collusion is the only option for the lower tier servers. Seriously though, how often does the 2 weaker servers ever gang up on the strongest server?

Do they even organize? Or is it going to be like 2 babies fighting an adult?

On the other hand, if the weak servers don’t put in the effort in communicating and organizing, then they deserve to lose.

That’s how I see it.

hey, I tried.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/recruitment/Dear-low-wvw-pop-servers

I’m cheering for you buddy!

I played DAoC for a long time and eventually collusion happens. Not all the time, but you’ll pull off some darkhorse victories and those wins will be the most memorable.

Think Braveheart and 300.

style.6173:

All, look at it this way. There is a big gap right now between what the ANET dev team thinks and what people on this forum think. If the league turns out to be as unbalanced as everyone in the forums think, then you have every right to criticize the ideas of the dev team going forward. Until we see the rules though, maybe there is something ANET isn’t telling us with the league set up/scoring.

People who keep coming up with this, and handi caps to scoring just aren’t getting it. If your server gets utterly destroyed all week long to the point where logging in is painful does it really matter if Anet tells you your server won the match ?

I’m sure players will be happy with being spawn camped for 7 days only to hear they came first or second because they logged in.

It’s too late to fix season one. There are players leaving servers just to get into a position for some unnamed rewards. Plus servers tanking so they can drop into a lower league.

Anet could have changed it by saying that there will be either:

Scoring handicaps based on Glicko ratings or….
Stat buffs for outmanned and outpointed servers

All so that the lowest tier server has a chance. If Anet would have said that lower population servers would have a better chance of winning, since you have several weeks of data already compiled, you’d get your player redistribution opposite of what you are seeing now.

Handicaps and stat buffs are easier and less painfull than imposing map caps. You’re never going to get people to leave the top stacked servers unless they lose.

Honestly, the WvWvW team should be looking at scoring rule changes that would spread out populations instead of a league at this point, let alone a change to the league setup. The league, in its current incarnation, just perpetuates the problem.

Also, ANet can’t look at PVP through the lens of metrics. That view works for PVE, but PvP has a much greater reliance on intrinsic rewards that you cannot measure via metrics or understand via metrics. There isn’t a target you can measure against, because what you need to know is hard to measure.

For example, guilds aren’t transferring for a chance at a finisher. Only a couple of servers really have a chance at that. Maybe only one server does. The reason for moving servers has to do with the intrinsic value of what the players switching servers will be facing during league play. Will I have people to fight with? Fight against? Will I be facing weeks where the match will be so noncompetitive that it will hurt both the winning side’s and losing side’s participation? Will I be unable to fight good guilds in open battle?

Basically, the league system doesn’t value what the players value. It values the match outcome and chasing achievements. It’s likely aimed at the PVE populations you don’t see in WvWvW, but that is such a naive attempt at drawing those people in that it makes me worry about the WuvWuv mode going forward. The casual PvPers are not going to like getting steamrolled. No achievement will be valuable enough to put up with some of the worst examples of what WvWvW is about.

Those that push through the bad matches and bad situations to grind out achieves will come away with a worse opinion of WvWvW than they had before. ArenaNet is trading in goodwill for a chance at a temporary increase in participation from players who don’t normally take part in WvWvW. And guess what? That sort of exchange defeats the whole purpose of the exchange. The end result is committed WvWvW players will be angrier and some may leave, and the casuals you draw in will have every negative view of WvWvW they had reinforced.

As a company, you should be able to foresee this.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Are you kitten kidding me? Do you guys even play your own game? Even if you don’t…. just hire one intern to analyze the scores for the last 4 months between all the matchups and he/she will easily conclude after 2 hours of high school level analysis, that having two leagues is absolutely kitten. You guys are completely delusional. Anyone that has played on the top 12 servers can easily tell the insane population differences between tiers.

Even leagues of 6 would be bad. Every week DB and FA would have to face at least 1 tier 1 realm and get destroyed. Even in our ‘natural’ matchup of TC/FA/DB, TC outnumbers us by at least 1.5:1, which snowballs by the end of the week. Outside of tier 1 there just aren’t many even matches.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

well it is the same thing u see here http://mos.millenium.org/na
sor is gonna win. they have queues 24/7 60 man zergs everywhere any time! fa faced 2 t1 servers and i gotta say as much as we all put effort and sleepless nights into it there is like no way to compete.
unless anet rewards smaller groups to make a difference(and this is also a classbalance issue), there is no fun in leagues.

whatever happen i think CD will get smacked week in week out because most likely CD will be placed in the League-1….

gg ANET…gg

The problem with wvw is you only play for your server. What if we just keep the current matchup up system, and once in a while setup a competition in the form of leagues.

For example 3-4 leagues for NA (this number depends on how many people enter the competition.) Each league has 3 colors as usual. The difference now is let guild from any server manually register which league and which color they want to be in whenever there is a league event (just like a live story in pve, league event is the live story in wvw happening once in a while). And already registered guilds can be seen by everyone so that people know which league and color they are in so that you can decide where you want to join.

If 3 or 4 leagues are not enough, just open more to fill up people who register late. This way you get to play with your server regularly and keep the server community tie (we are still using the current system), and when there is a league competition you get to play with/against guilds/friends/foes you want. Say just make the league event happen twice in a year and last xx weeks each or something like that.

selan.8354:

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

well it is the same thing u see here http://mos.millenium.org/na
sor is gonna win. they have queues 24/7 60 man zergs everywhere any time! fa faced 2 t1 servers and i gotta say as much as we all put effort and sleepless nights into it there is like no way to compete.
unless anet rewards smaller groups to make a difference(and this is also a classbalance issue), there is no fun in leagues.

60? There is no way no how sor only has 60 in those blobs. It’s likely up for grabs for any of the top 3 though (BG is actually rank 1 atm, not SoR). Really just depends on how many times they match the top 3 against each other (and in what combinations), since your league ranking is based on match wins/losses rather than rating gains/losses. So if 2 of the top 3 get matched against each other repeatedly and trade off wins because the matches are close, and the other gets fed, the one being fed low rank servers is going to win

Terra Dactyl.2047:

selan.8354:

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

well it is the same thing u see here http://mos.millenium.org/na
sor is gonna win. they have queues 24/7 60 man zergs everywhere any time! fa faced 2 t1 servers and i gotta say as much as we all put effort and sleepless nights into it there is like no way to compete.
unless anet rewards smaller groups to make a difference(and this is also a classbalance issue), there is no fun in leagues.

60? There is no way no how sor only has 60 in those blobs. It’s likely up for grabs for any of the top 3 though (BG is actually rank 1 atm, not SoR). Really just depends on how many times they match the top 3 against each other (and in what combinations), since your league ranking is based on match wins/losses rather than rating gains/losses. So if 2 of the top 3 get matched against each other repeatedly and trade off wins because the matches are close, and the other gets fed, the one being fed low rank servers is going to win

well yeah sry i meant 70 man zergs XD
i dont see how it can be fun to be in t1 with that terrible skilllag and 2hour queues…im glas we only had to face it once so far. i would transfer out if i had to face that kind of lag every day.
last week when fa faced bg and jq, we were stuck in smc unable to kill eachother, just kiting in circles and hoping to get 1 skill to work…..

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety of an kitten kicking at that point.

That is basically what you’ve established.

“I could very well be wrong”

You are..

as usual.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Why is the current mentality that you have to fail first before adjusting to something better. Why not proactively solve problems before they occur. We had to let the new matching algorithm fail for months before something was done. Just going by math and the current rating of the various servers, it should be clear that 3 leagues should be the minimum. You should postpone this and make that happen or just scrap the league idea entirely.

Usually there is a spread of opinions. Literally, I don’t think there is anyone, not even the usual lone blacksheep that feels obligated to disagree with any popular opinion, that thinks 2 leagues is enough for NA. Find me one person on this entire forum or any GW2 player anywhere, that isn’t trolling, that thinks that 2 leagues is a good idea.

Also, keep in mind that im not an anti-league guy that is just spouting this because I don’t like the whole idea. I like the league idea and the changes to the maps with Bloodlust. I just think you need more leagues for this to be a productive exercise.

timidobserver.7925:

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Why is the current mentality that you have to fail first before adjusting to something better. Why not proactively solve problems before they occur. We had to let the new matching algorithm fail for months before something was done.

My guess would be arrogance or lack of common sense…maybe a bit of both. Nothing against anyone or anything…just calling it as I see it.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Why does Anet care about variety so much? I’m pretty sure your customers (us) overwhelmingly don’t want this variety Anet keeps pushing.

No one from the bottom of each league wants to face any of the top servers of said league.

While on paper this sounds like a good idea, it doesn’t really solve anything. The leagues will still be blown out by certain servers. If anything, this idea will just let 4 servers blowout the rest, instead of 2 which could be the op’s ulterior motive, being from SoS.

Firstly, this will make for more stagnant matches. I doubt FA or DB will enjoy fighting a T1 server almost every week. Two leagues will provide a larger range of mathups.

Secondly, 3 of the 4 proposed leagues will be blown out by a server. The winner of the 1st league will be determined by whichever server is paired with T2 servers the most. So it’s not really about who’s the best.

2nd league will be blown out by SoS.
3rd will be blown out by IoJ.
4th will be blown out by SF.

So the other, less fortunate servers will have to put up with being paired with these guys more often, which I don’t think they would want.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

You mention variety being the concern. Well, Is there any logical/sound reason that NA needs more variety than EU? I think that we should be able to get by with the same amount of variety as EU.

There is a smaller point spread between EU servers than NA servers.
Black gate(1) – Yaksbend(12) = 636.133
Seafarer’s rest(1) – Gandara(12) = 306.221
^This is the sort of reasoning that you should be using to make decisions. Surely double the point spread doesn’t equal less leagues.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Well, at least you are willing to consider the changes. I hope your team can play on some of the matches to see the effects first hand.

The tone of your post shows that you understand our concerns a little and appreciate why a great number of people approach this change with no small amount of trepidation.

Sharpoon.8197:

While on paper this sounds like a good idea, it doesn’t really solve anything. The leagues will still be blown out by certain servers. If anything, this idea will just let 4 servers blowout the rest, instead of 2 which could be the op’s ulterior motive, being from SoS.

Firstly, this will make for more stagnant matches. I doubt FA or DB will enjoy fighting a T1 server almost every week. Two leagues will provide a larger range of mathups.

Secondly, 3 of the 4 proposed leagues will be blown out by a server. The winner of the 1st league will be determined by whichever server is paired with T2 servers the most. So it’s not really about who’s the best.

2nd league will be blown out by SoS.
3rd will be blown out by IoJ.
4th will be blown out by SF.

So the other, less fortunate servers will have to put up with being paired with these guys more often, which I don’t think they would want.

Ask any of the T3-T4 servers on who’d they rather face for weeks on end, SoS or BG?

erm devon: check mos! there u got all the numbers u need! t1 servers are too stacked and people keep going there, because they dont wanna have to fight hard. they always want the easy way out of everything.

Sharpoon.8197:

While on paper this sounds like a good idea, it doesn’t really solve anything. The leagues will still be blown out by certain servers. If anything, this idea will just let 4 servers blowout the rest, instead of 2 which could be the op’s ulterior motive, being from SoS.

Firstly, this will make for more stagnant matches. I doubt FA or DB will enjoy fighting a T1 server almost every week. Two leagues will provide a larger range of mathups.

Secondly, 3 of the 4 proposed leagues will be blown out by a server. The winner of the 1st league will be determined by whichever server is paired with T2 servers the most. So it’s not really about who’s the best.

2nd league will be blown out by SoS.
3rd will be blown out by IoJ.
4th will be blown out by SF.

So the other, less fortunate servers will have to put up with being paired with these guys more often, which I don’t think they would want.

You caught me… evil laughter.

I think we all know who will win what match/league because population = win. But the matchups will be crap if only 2 leagues for 4-5 of 7 weeks. Atleast with 4 leagues the matchups will be closer and not complete blowouts. Either way we are stuck with 2 leagues as Devon already said they need more data…. We really need to gather the data for them because their computers suck it seems or anet suffers from memory loss.

they may as well call wvw the running game ….you run to the fight ….get out numbered …die …and run again! but hey, repairs are free ..so it’s ok ? lol

Ask you self one question, why aren’t spvp teams world based? World based large scale pvp is going to be a constant series of blow-outs as long as there are significant differences in participation due to restricting teams to worlds. Your never going to have fair sports until you have even sized teams. Please show me a popular successful sport that involves uneven teams?

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Great… weeks of having to face at least 1 tier 1-1.5 server to look forward to. Say bye to the WvW populations of the servers that are royally screwed by this system. It was bad enough watching rank 4’s occasionally get matched to rank 12, now it’ll be the norm. Variety in matches means being in one sided matches more often. Variety just gives the massive server a couple different names on their screen each week while they 80v20-auto1-lagfest.

Will we see more of this ‘variety’ policy in other aspects of the game? Will my jumps in SAB now come in a variety of results each time i press space? Will world events get variety so that instead of lvl 15 zones always having a lvl 15 world boss they’re just as likely to have the priest of balthazar appear at level 80?

You better hope TESO completely screws up their answer to WvW when the populations of half your servers get tired of you promoting server stacking and then matching stacked against normal. Also destroying our ability to run any sort of organized gvg.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

We don’t want variety. We want competitive fights. Haven’t the randomized match-ups already demonstrated what a bad idea unfair match-ups were?

devon carver is jay wilsoning this up.

Benjamin.6235:

Hey, I got an idea. How about we have eight leagues and then move servers up and down based on their results of their games? Okay, so we have three servers so you’d have all potential match-ups in one week. Yeah, this idea might work.

This is genius, I can’t believe Anet hasn’t consider this, then we could get actual balanced matches! Oh wait…..
But seriously… Best system is the old tier system with a few tweaks so matches dont get locked in when a server isn’t competitive, I’m assuming Anet hopes T1 will destack into lower tiers if t1 no longer exists and they end up Rolf stomping every match, but given all the guilds moving to t1 this seems unlikely

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

Look at the upcoming data?

LMAO!

You’ve had the last 3 months of gathering this ‘data’ and yet you’re still oblivious to the facts? How much more time do you need, honestly? Hahahaha.

wads.5730:

devon carver is jay wilsoning this up.

There’s a name I hoped I’d never hear again.

there should be 3 leagues for NA

league 1 : rank 1-rank 9
league 2 : rank 10-rank 15
league 3 : rank 16-rank 24

make league 2 transitions league . some servers may get stronger/weaker one season after another….

Waffler.1257:

Something interesting to note:

- The difference between rank 1 EU (SFR r1966) and rank 12 EU (Gandara r1646) is 320 rating points.
- The difference between rank 1 US (BG r2153) and rank 12 US (BP r1510) is 643 rating points.

Now, it seems like the more even servers are the less leagues you would want to create because you could have competitive matches within a larger pool. But Anet says no, that’s silly, we will give the more even servers in EU 3 leagues, and the more disparate servers in the US 2 leagues.

There are 27 servers in EU zone, and you can only divide them in 2 ways : either 3 leagues of 9, or 9 leagues of 3.

Or one league of 27 ^^’ .

Chris.3290:

Sharpoon.8197:

While on paper this sounds like a good idea, it doesn’t really solve anything. The leagues will still be blown out by certain servers. If anything, this idea will just let 4 servers blowout the rest, instead of 2 which could be the op’s ulterior motive, being from SoS.

Firstly, this will make for more stagnant matches. I doubt FA or DB will enjoy fighting a T1 server almost every week. Two leagues will provide a larger range of mathups.

Secondly, 3 of the 4 proposed leagues will be blown out by a server. The winner of the 1st league will be determined by whichever server is paired with T2 servers the most. So it’s not really about who’s the best.

2nd league will be blown out by SoS.
3rd will be blown out by IoJ.
4th will be blown out by SF.

So the other, less fortunate servers will have to put up with being paired with these guys more often, which I don’t think they would want.

Ask any of the T3-T4 servers on who’d they rather face for weeks on end, SoS or BG?

Ask FA or DB whether they’d like to face a T1 server almost every single week or the T5/6 servers whether they’d like to face IoJ more often than the current system. Or if we assume that the winner of a lower league moves up, how would you guys like stomping for 7 weeks followed by getting stomped for 7 weeks? :o

THis is partly Anet’s attempt to move the WvW playerbase around a bit.

While I don’t think we know how Anet are going to organise the matchups my guess is JQ/SoR/BG will play each other at most once in those weeks. The concept of “T1” will absolutely be killed off.

I can’t see much incentive for the arms race to continue across those three servers, in fact players on there will have to get bored stomping as much as those they play against will hate getting stomped.

If any top 12 server can play against each other it could (although after a bit of pain) level things out a bit.

(thinking about this further they will probably reset ratings as well at the start of the season?)

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

With all due respect Devon this is just simply another ill-conceived concept, that almost makes it seem like you guys are horribly out of touch with this game.

I would point you to my current matchup sir:

Current PPT:
14. Kaineng – 630
19. Sorrow’s Furnace – 35
21. Gate of Madness – 30

How fun do you think it would be to login to this? How fun would it be for a lower ranked server than us? How much worse could it be if the 3rd team were above our rank, (we might have us a nice 0 ppt)?

The league is already a forgone conclusion if you are basing it on who “wins” these matches. There is hardly any reason for lower pop. servers to even try because we are going to get steamrolled by 24hr coverage mid-tiers.

Everyone suggesting 3 leagues for NA needs to go back to elementary school.

Blix.8021:

Everyone suggesting 3 leagues for NA needs to go back to elementary school.

Lol, yeah. Unless the poster puts in a caveat about having one match per week be a 1v1, in which case it would work (of course it would have to be technically possible for Anet to do it).

Here’s a break up for 4 leagues that would be actual good matches:

League 1: BG, SoR, JQ
League 2: TC/DB/FA
League 3: Mag/SoS/Ebay/YB/CD/SBI/BP/Kain/IoJ
League 4: DH/HoD/NSP/SF/ET/GoM/FC/DR/AR

Now those would be some pretty good matches. Because honestly, BG, SoR and JQ there’s really no one else for them to fight. Same goes for TC, DB and FA – when they’re not in a match together, its a bad match.

Although, I do suspect that these leagues are an attempt to make people move out of T1 servers and spread out due to sheer boredom. And if that works, it would be the best thing for WvW. And I would take back everything I said.

I feel like everytime ANet attempts to move in the right direction and get us all excited that they are actually making changes to WvW….they implement it so ridiculously wrong that anybody with half a brain would understand why it’s wrong…then it takes about 2-3 months to “collect data” to find out that they were wrong…then they implement something that is better and sort of works….it’s a repeatable pattern…one that would be EASILY solved with what 99% of other games have….a BETA server….but naw….let’s just test it right in production!! Then collect data and fix bugs after the end users report them! Saves money!

I don’t always test my code….but when I do…..I do it in production!!!

DevonCarver.5370:

I could very well be wrong,

Talk about hitting the nail on the head.

So guys, when are orbs and leagues coming? I need to stock on popcorn and watch the forums explode (I feel mods will need to work overtime then) after day 1 of them.

DevonCarver.5370:

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

I like that ‘variety’ is more important than competitiveness in league play…

Actinotus.6410:

THis is partly Anet’s attempt to move the WvW playerbase around a bit.

While I don’t think we know how Anet are going to organise the matchups my guess is JQ/SoR/BG will play each other at most once in those weeks. The concept of “T1” will absolutely be killed off.

I can’t see much incentive for the arms race to continue across those three servers, in fact players on there will have to get bored stomping as much as those they play against will hate getting stomped.

If any top 12 server can play against each other it could (although after a bit of pain) level things out a bit.

(thinking about this further they will probably reset ratings as well at the start of the season?)

I suspect (and rather hope) that this is the logic and I can only hope that plenty of uneven matches and the lack of balanced GvG does encourage folk to spread out, but it’s a given that it’s going to be a horrid period for some servers.

Blix.8021:

Everyone suggesting 3 leagues for NA needs to go back to elementary school.

who said all groups HAD TO BE equal sized?

12/12 is a trainwreck of epic proportions that noone, in either league, will be able to enjoy

6/12/6 would have 2 out of 3 leagues somewhat fair, somewhat balanced, and somewhat interesting
while at the same time preventing both extremes of the curve (top servers and bottom servers) from interfering in the middle one….which will still be greatly unbalanced yes, but not HILARIOUSLY unbalanced as 12/12 would be

6/12/6 is evidently a far superior alternative

Blanche Neige.7241:

Waffler.1257:

Something interesting to note:

- The difference between rank 1 EU (SFR r1966) and rank 12 EU (Gandara r1646) is 320 rating points.
- The difference between rank 1 US (BG r2153) and rank 12 US (BP r1510) is 643 rating points.

Now, it seems like the more even servers are the less leagues you would want to create because you could have competitive matches within a larger pool. But Anet says no, that’s silly, we will give the more even servers in EU 3 leagues, and the more disparate servers in the US 2 leagues.

There are 27 servers in EU zone, and you can only divide them in 2 ways : either 3 leagues of 9, or 9 leagues of 3.

Or one league of 27 ^^’ .

Or you could give the US 4 leagues to make up for the greater variation in their rating relative to EU. I mean it kinda was the topic of the thread but some people are slow I guess.

Blix.8021:

Everyone suggesting 3 leagues for NA needs to go back to elementary school.

You can do 3 leagues. They don’t all have to be the same size.
9+9+6=24
Yay!

Zinrae.3769:

You can do 3 leagues. They don’t all have to be the same size.
9+9+6=24
Yay!

Its probably more balanced having as few teams in the first spot as possible, let JQ/BG/SoR/TC beat each other silly with only two other casualties of war.