Guild Wars 2

forum bug……….

Absconditus.6804:

Why not at some point go over World vs. World and rather make it a Faction vs. Faction system where players sign up with factions such as the Kurzick, Luxons and a third faction, and the server portion of WvW is phased out? Will there be potential landslides, yes; but that’s already happening.

IMO if they had the current server instancing at launch this is probably what we would have.

Sadly this isn’t very feasible at the moment. You can see how people get their jimmies rustled at ideas to balance the current server system. I can’t imagine the backlash if they hinted they may do away with servers all together. People have spent a lot of time and gold over the years manipulating server pops, I mean “building communities”.

Strider Pj.2193:

Swamurabi.7890:

Just curious, what would you do to destack unlinked and locked BG (57-0-0) in this matchup so that they have a similar population of DB linked with Kaineng and DH?

What would you do to unlinked and locked JQ to force them to destack down to DB population?

DB (0-16-42) is the number four server and is no where close to being competitive.

Do you really think that BG’s “community” is so sacred that it is more important than the game experience of every other server in NA?

I certainly wouldn’t have created posts for one up, one down. Without that, this situation wouldn’t happen. Ask other servers who now can willingly move down tiers to get favorable matchups for KDR.

And not created posts to delete servers.

Remove hibernating accounts. Make them free agents after more than _ (fill in the blank) weeks/months. And make the activity as it applies to the mode. So, inactive in WvW for more than that period of time, your server affiliation is removed until you attempt to log back into WvW.

It’s not perfect, but would minimize hibernation issues.

And of course, it could be gamed.

But targeting only one server is not the answer either.

This is clearly the wants of the few mattering more, then the needs of the many.

Blackgate is the single more kitten ing issue in WvW.

Blackgate forces other servers to feel the need to tank their score so they don’t have to face them. Being made to fight against Blackgate in it’s current state is a complete turn off. And makes many many players on other servers not either want to play the game mode they enjoy.

Blackgate alone has more population and coverage then all of the other servers involved in T1 put together.

Blackgate has in the past gamed the system to get to this point. And honestly in my opinion should be punished as a server. I’d to meet the needs of the many. Either eradicate the cancer so the whole of the product can grow. Or at least do what someone said above and cut all maps population caps by 50%.

Again Blackgate is the problem. Until Blackgate is put under control. To meet the needs of the many instead of the wants of the few. People will continue to tank, inorder to not fight them. Or just not play WvW for the time against Blackgate. Or worst start another mass exodus of players from WvW again.

Blackgate has fully willingly gamed the system to become the problem it is today. The Blackgate problem should be solved ASAP. However we know ANet idolizes Blackgate to much to fix the problem in WvW cause by Blackgate willingly and knowingly.

Blackgate is lucky this is not upto me. Or I’d delete that problem server. Make 2 or 3 new servers. And give every one on Blackgate that knowingly caused this problem. Pay to server transfer to any other server then the new ones created. However again this is ANet prioritizing the wants of the few to stomp on the needs of the many.

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Hey guys, you do know that BG population outnumbers all hence this discussion is unbalanced. It’s a Wvwvw out there

I wonder why all the servers that hate BG so much don’t join forces to only work against them.

Instead there are only more rumors of large guilds asking BG for gold to allow them to move to BG…

Kind of puzzling actually.

Lemme explain this my little BG padwan since it is tougher to see from your angle looking down. Large guilds generally need to win some fights and since an alliance with the enemy is only as good as the enemy’s word, maybe some are really friends and maybe some are not, it’s much easier to play the stax game like with any game out there I.e. Team fortress 2, rust, unknown player’s battleground. Anyway long story short: moving to BG helps guild morale.

Roxanne.6140:

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Hey guys, you do know that BG population outnumbers all hence this discussion is unbalanced. It’s a Wvwvw out there

I wonder why all the servers that hate BG so much don’t join forces to only work against them.

Instead there are only more rumors of large guilds asking BG for gold to allow them to move to BG…

Kind of puzzling actually.

Lemme explain this my little BG padwan since it is tougher to see from your angle looking down. Large guilds generally need to win some fights and since an alliance with the enemy is only as good as the enemy’s word, maybe some are really friends and maybe some are not, it’s much easier to play the stax game like with any game out there I.e. Team fortress 2, rust, unknown player’s battleground. Anyway long story short: moving to BG helps guild morale.

That you for the condescending post. Obviously sarcasm is lost on you.

It would seem to me that those large guilds have no true leadership ability to hold their guild together even with a server loss where, of course, score doesn’t matter?

Reaper Alim.4176:

Strider Pj.2193:

Swamurabi.7890:

Just curious, what would you do to destack unlinked and locked BG (57-0-0) in this matchup so that they have a similar population of DB linked with Kaineng and DH?

What would you do to unlinked and locked JQ to force them to destack down to DB population?

DB (0-16-42) is the number four server and is no where close to being competitive.

Do you really think that BG’s “community” is so sacred that it is more important than the game experience of every other server in NA?

I certainly wouldn’t have created posts for one up, one down. Without that, this situation wouldn’t happen. Ask other servers who now can willingly move down tiers to get favorable matchups for KDR.

And not created posts to delete servers.

Remove hibernating accounts. Make them free agents after more than _ (fill in the blank) weeks/months. And make the activity as it applies to the mode. So, inactive in WvW for more than that period of time, your server affiliation is removed until you attempt to log back into WvW.

It’s not perfect, but would minimize hibernation issues.

And of course, it could be gamed.

But targeting only one server is not the answer either.

This is clearly the wants of the few mattering more, then the needs of the many.

Blackgate is the single more kitten ing issue in WvW.

Blackgate forces other servers to feel the need to tank their score so they don’t have to face them. Being made to fight against Blackgate in it’s current state is a complete turn off. And makes many many players on other servers not either want to play the game mode they enjoy.

Blackgate alone has more population and coverage then all of the other servers involved in T1 put together.

Blackgate has in the past gamed the system to get to this point. And honestly in my opinion should be punished as a server. I’d to meet the needs of the many. Either eradicate the cancer so the whole of the product can grow. Or at least do what someone said above and cut all maps population caps by 50%.

Again Blackgate is the problem. Until Blackgate is put under control. To meet the needs of the many instead of the wants of the few. People will continue to tank, inorder to not fight them. Or just not play WvW for the time against Blackgate. Or worst start another mass exodus of players from WvW again.

Blackgate has fully willingly gamed the system to become the problem it is today. The Blackgate problem should be solved ASAP. However we know ANet idolizes Blackgate to much to fix the problem in WvW cause by Blackgate willingly and knowingly.

Blackgate is lucky this is not upto me. Or I’d delete that problem server. Make 2 or 3 new servers. And give every one on Blackgate that knowingly caused this problem. Pay to server transfer to any other server then the new ones created. However again this is ANet prioritizing the wants of the few to stomp on the needs of the many.

A break from WvW can be refreshing.

Evidently the other servers can’t work together to slay the beast?

And no other server has gamed this system?

JQ hasn’t bought large numbers of guilds?

A large contingent of large guilds didn’t join forces and descend down to lower servers in order to devastate those lower tiers to drag up a server into tier one?

That was BGs fault?

One up, one down is BGs fault which has allowed other servers to easily game the system and ravage lower servers?

Deleting BG wouldn’t solve the issues. It would just create others.

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Hey guys, you do know that BG population outnumbers all hence this discussion is unbalanced. It’s a Wvwvw out there

I wonder why all the servers that hate BG so much don’t join forces to only work against them.

Instead there are only more rumors of large guilds asking BG for gold to allow them to move to BG…

Kind of puzzling actually.

Lemme explain this my little BG padwan since it is tougher to see from your angle looking down. Large guilds generally need to win some fights and since an alliance with the enemy is only as good as the enemy’s word, maybe some are really friends and maybe some are not, it’s much easier to play the stax game like with any game out there I.e. Team fortress 2, rust, unknown player’s battleground. Anyway long story short: moving to BG helps guild morale.

That you for the condescending post. Obviously sarcasm is lost on you.

It would seem to me that those large guilds have no true leadership ability to hold their guild together even with a server loss where, of course, score doesn’t matter?

You win.

It’s expected.

Roxanne.6140:

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Strider Pj.2193:

Roxanne.6140:

Hey guys, you do know that BG population outnumbers all hence this discussion is unbalanced. It’s a Wvwvw out there

I wonder why all the servers that hate BG so much don’t join forces to only work against them.

Instead there are only more rumors of large guilds asking BG for gold to allow them to move to BG…

Kind of puzzling actually.

Lemme explain this my little BG padwan since it is tougher to see from your angle looking down. Large guilds generally need to win some fights and since an alliance with the enemy is only as good as the enemy’s word, maybe some are really friends and maybe some are not, it’s much easier to play the stax game like with any game out there I.e. Team fortress 2, rust, unknown player’s battleground. Anyway long story short: moving to BG helps guild morale.

That you for the condescending post. Obviously sarcasm is lost on you.

It would seem to me that those large guilds have no true leadership ability to hold their guild together even with a server loss where, of course, score doesn’t matter?

You win.

It’s expected.

sigh

Wasn’t trying to win..

Anyway, I only argue that BG is the result of the problem. They have been better at the manipulation than other servers.

Mostly because of hibernation.

I think removing server affiliations from accounts that were not counting towards the population algorithm for WvW for a given period of time would help. The next time they were to log in to WvW it would require them to choose a non full server.

Not a perfect solution, but it may prevent hibernating to open a server.

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Wait, so this is not just a game to you? Clearly it’s not me who is emotionally bothered. I believe players should be free to play however they want, whenever. You seem to think that players who don’t play X content for X amount of time need to be penalized because it does not benefit you. Throwing out straw man arguments based on emotion and little consideration of how it would affect others does not help your case.

This isn’t about others, it is about you. You are avoiding the question. I repeat…

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive?

Logic has no emotion so please don’t tell me about straw man argument when you are obviously using emotion as part of the argument.

Dragonbrand here. I don’t know what is good just tired of be outnumbered all the time or try to do cap something without enough people. Anet please do something to fix this!

abelsgmx.7530:

Dragonbrand here. I don’t know what is good just tired of be outnumbered all the time or try to do cap something without enough people. Anet please do something to fix this!

Yeah it’s glaring issue. But ANet seems to only cater towards Blackgate. More so when ANet feels money can be made from WvWers bandwagoning to the already over stacked server. Mark my words. Soon after PoF launches. Watch ANet open Blackgate again and give us some sob excuse to why they did it. It just sucks that the rest of us have to suffer because of such.

#DeleteBlackgatePleaseThankYouBye

Absconditus.6804:

Why not at some point go over World vs. World and rather make it a Faction vs. Faction system where players sign up with factions such as the Kurzick, Luxons and a third faction, and the server portion of WvW is phased out? Will there be potential landslides, yes; but that’s already happening.

The battlegroup proposal that the devs themselves formulated was along these lines. However anet got cold feet and went with linkages.

LetoII.3782:

DeadlySynz.3471:

It’s not a player created problem, it’s an Anet created problem, and it’s a problem centered almost exclusively around BG, and to a lesser extent JQ. Anet never should have opened these servers up. I’ve seen a good chunk of others servers field similar active numbers whereas the fights are relatively even. The problem arises when other servers end up in T1 showing the true issue of the population disparity. No server can field the same numbers as JQ, and JQ themselves can’t field the numbers against BG.

Honestly, the best possible case scenario at this point is to drastically lower the population on each map.. like literally cut them by 50%. It won’t affect any other server that much, but it will hit the top 2 quite hard. Send their map ques through the roof so they sit for 2-4 hours in a que. At some point if they hope to play regularly, they’ll need to move. It might even help diminishing the ongoing lag issue as well.

This is really the most practical answer. Solves lag issues, keeps transfer revenue for Anet and provides players with a more balanced set of matches at primetime
What it won’t address is off hours imbalance, the communities driving score disparity are simply too small to ever be dispersed across all matches.

It will also discourage large map blobs if set low enough – another need in WvW – to discourage the mindless ktrain and send it to EOTM where it belongs.

Otherwise, I’d agree with this step. Easy to do. Motivates destacking. Discourages further bandwagoning.

Pensadora.9478:

LetoII.3782:

DeadlySynz.3471:

It’s not a player created problem, it’s an Anet created problem, and it’s a problem centered almost exclusively around BG, and to a lesser extent JQ. Anet never should have opened these servers up. I’ve seen a good chunk of others servers field similar active numbers whereas the fights are relatively even. The problem arises when other servers end up in T1 showing the true issue of the population disparity. No server can field the same numbers as JQ, and JQ themselves can’t field the numbers against BG.

Honestly, the best possible case scenario at this point is to drastically lower the population on each map.. like literally cut them by 50%. It won’t affect any other server that much, but it will hit the top 2 quite hard. Send their map ques through the roof so they sit for 2-4 hours in a que. At some point if they hope to play regularly, they’ll need to move. It might even help diminishing the ongoing lag issue as well.

This is really the most practical answer. Solves lag issues, keeps transfer revenue for Anet and provides players with a more balanced set of matches at primetime
What it won’t address is off hours imbalance, the communities driving score disparity are simply too small to ever be dispersed across all matches.

It will also discourage large map blobs if set low enough – another need in WvW – to discourage the mindless ktrain and send it to EOTM where it belongs.

Otherwise, I’d agree with this step. Easy to do. Motivates destacking. Discourages further bandwagoning.

Yes I think assuming anet will keep the servers as they are this is the only solution, plus accounts being purged from servers after a specific period of inactivity.

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Wait, so this is not just a game to you? Clearly it’s not me who is emotionally bothered. I believe players should be free to play however they want, whenever. You seem to think that players who don’t play X content for X amount of time need to be penalized because it does not benefit you. Throwing out straw man arguments based on emotion and little consideration of how it would affect others does not help your case.

This isn’t about others, it is about you. You are avoiding the question. I repeat…

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive?

Logic has no emotion so please don’t tell me about straw man argument when you are obviously using emotion as part of the argument.

Um excuse me but when were you declared King of GW? Who are you to decide what should happen to every account in the game because you think it will be a benefit to you? Furthermore how do you know this would help your server? You do understand such a change would affect your server and guild as well right? And could even end up lowering your server’s population in the long run.

If it is so difficult to understand that people actually have things to do outside of playing a video game I’m sorry but that is not my fault. Lack of comprehension on your part does not mean every account needs to be subjected to such a penalty because you believe this idea will fix everything…

Btw “This isn’t about others, it is about you” This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

Serenity.6135:

Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

If a Host or Link receives a material increase in population, such that it exceeds the threshold of ‘competitive’ and becomes ‘overstacked’ then… YES… absolutely YES… I would argue that the link be reassigned to another Host that needs the link in order to be competitive.

I am advocating for a fair fight, a challenging fight, more than a Guaranteed Win whether T1 or T4.

Yes, MAS was on HOD just like we were on Blackgate for 3 years – our original server home. We have left the gated community in T1 and we’re out living free among the people on Sorrow’s Furnace. We now have both the perspective from T1 and the perspective from T3/T4 informing our opinions on this matter.

In the interest of full disclosure, please do share from which server your perspective is derived.

morrolan.9608:

Pensadora.9478:

LetoII.3782:

DeadlySynz.3471:

It’s not a player created problem, it’s an Anet created problem, and it’s a problem centered almost exclusively around BG, and to a lesser extent JQ. Anet never should have opened these servers up. I’ve seen a good chunk of others servers field similar active numbers whereas the fights are relatively even. The problem arises when other servers end up in T1 showing the true issue of the population disparity. No server can field the same numbers as JQ, and JQ themselves can’t field the numbers against BG.

Honestly, the best possible case scenario at this point is to drastically lower the population on each map.. like literally cut them by 50%. It won’t affect any other server that much, but it will hit the top 2 quite hard. Send their map ques through the roof so they sit for 2-4 hours in a que. At some point if they hope to play regularly, they’ll need to move. It might even help diminishing the ongoing lag issue as well.

This is really the most practical answer. Solves lag issues, keeps transfer revenue for Anet and provides players with a more balanced set of matches at primetime
What it won’t address is off hours imbalance, the communities driving score disparity are simply too small to ever be dispersed across all matches.

It will also discourage large map blobs if set low enough – another need in WvW – to discourage the mindless ktrain and send it to EOTM where it belongs.

Otherwise, I’d agree with this step. Easy to do. Motivates destacking. Discourages further bandwagoning.

Yes I think assuming anet will keep the servers as they are this is the only solution, plus accounts being purged from servers after a specific period of inactivity.

I agree. The base, inactive populations need to be released from a server after a reasonable period of inactivity. This is sensible, justifiable and easy to explain to players. Those same inactive players were also likely kicked from their WvW guilds for the same reason.

I’d also like to see server selection by new players held off until that player actually decides to play WvW. Why have players making uninformed decisions on entering the game and before the thought has even entered their mind to engage in WvW play?

Pensadora.9478:

Serenity.6135:

Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

If a Host or Link receives a material increase in population, such that it exceeds the threshold of ‘competitive’ and becomes ‘overstacked’ then… YES… absolutely YES… I would argue that the link be reassigned to another Host that needs the link in order to be competitive.

I am advocating for a fair fight, a challenging fight, more than a Guaranteed Win whether T1 or T4.

Yes, MAS was on HOD just like we were on Blackgate for 3 years – our original server home. We have left the gated community in T1 and we’re out living free among the people on Sorrow’s Furnace. We now have both the perspective from T1 and the perspective from T3/T4 informing our opinions on this matter.

In the interest of full disclosure, please do share from which server your perspective is derived.

I started on TC a couple of years ago, I am on SoR currently because I thought it would be fun to have different matchups with a new host server every couple of months. I am not interested in discussing matchups, only ideas.

bigchunk.5190:

Remove blackgate, then it’s all fixed xD

j/k

OMG MINSTRELS.

It’s been a few years since I’ve come onto these forums! Honestly I think it should just have been clear at the start that some groups of players will have to bite the bullet for some of the ideas that have been thrown around. Lets be real no one will eat the bullet for others in this kind of situation, everyone plays for their own fun ultimately). I also only properly read Skyshroud’s original idea (Sorry Yuffi and the other guy), though later on I kinda skimmed through the wall of texts.

I think the key issue here is more of trying to satisfy the wants of every single kind of player, which is not really very easy (or may not be possible, don’t know). I think another consideration that others may have to include (sorry if someone mentioned this and I skipped it), is also from ANET’s point of view. There needs to be enough incentive to actually apply any idea, attempting some things could lower their total revenue by the increased costs or the drop in revenue itself (someone mentioned transfer costs), of course ANET may not even be considering this, just an example. Not to mention what they do would probably incite backlash from other groups of players anyway, as I’m guessing there hasn’t been a way to implement something that could appease everyone.

Just hope that everyone can kinda keep that in mind, it’s always nice to have a flow of ideas but ultimately it has to be something that ANET will find appealing to implement as well…. That and people will always have emotional investment in their arguments, hence some of the… shots fired? In this thread. No offence to anyone!

Ramoth.9064:

bigchunk.5190:

Remove blackgate, then it’s all fixed xD

j/k

.

Just delete please. Like a bad error, delete DELETE

Raymond Lukes.6305:

A lot of the ideas we’ve seen have been well thought out and detailed they fall short because you guys are working from a limited perspective and not solving the whole issue.

You mean the issue of how do you keep making money from servers transfers if there are less servers?, hmm yep that’s a tough one, maybe just stop making money from server transfers?

Vavume.8065:

Raymond Lukes.6305:

A lot of the ideas we’ve seen have been well thought out and detailed they fall short because you guys are working from a limited perspective and not solving the whole issue.

You mean the issue of how do you keep making money from servers transfers if there are less servers?, hmm yep that’s a tough one, maybe just stop making money from server transfers?

You hit the hammer on the nail. If ANet was to fix WvW to be enjoyable for the many, population wise. Then people would simply have no reason to transfer servers to get the better gameplay they are looking for.

Serenity.6135:

… snipped to make more readible

This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

By ‘every single account’ and “ENTIRE” are you referring to ALL the accounts ever established in GW2?

Do you mean ALL the accounts ever established and have played WvW at some point, any point no matter how long ago, or how dead the account?

Do you mean ALL the ACTIVE accounts in the game or in WvW currently? If so, how do you define and measure ACTIVE?

Exactly what is the composition of the ENTIRE playerbase of accounts that you think ANET is concerned with when analyzing which fixes will be applied to WvW?

Because I’m pretty sure you and I don’t know. Because, as you’ve reminded us – they have data we don’t have. So, how can you or I know which accounts they concern themselves with when they make decisions about changes to a gamemode?

This thread demonstrates how committed a playerbase this part of the game has, and how much we care about it surviving and thriving, that we are all working to identify changes that will get it to being a balanced and competitive game.

And I would point out that not one person has yet to argue that this gamemode is balanced or competitive in its current state.

ANet expects the Expansion to reactivate inactive player accounts. It is doing that, from what I can see. Whether truly committed WvWers return and stay, is a whole other measure they will likely be looking at, as well.

But, I cannot see any smart company, or any smart group of people placing more value on their inactive customers – those that no longer use or recommend their product – than they place on those who do. That would be foolishness. And, I don’t consider ANet to be either stupid or foolish.

So, the suggestion that we address several WvW problems by the release of inactive players from the server, who then are invited to re-select their WvW server IF and WHEN they return to the game, is not unreasonable, impossible, nor improbable. I’d bet good money it’s being considered.

Pensadora.9478:

And I would point out that not one person has yet to argue that this gamemode is balanced nor competitive in its current state.

You need to let this go. WvW was never meant to be balanced. The devs themselves have said this many times over the past four years.

Jayne.9251:

Pensadora.9478:

And I would point out that not one person has yet to argue that this gamemode is balanced nor competitive in its current state.

You need to let this go. WvW was never meant to be balanced. The devs themselves have said this many times over the past four years.

I think what you think I mean by balanced is not what I mean by balance. I do NOT mean by balance: equal numbers on each side, as in soccer, football, baseball, etc.

Balanced, as far as I am concerned, is a multi-faceted measure. It is the summation of many factors, population being among them, that create fair and competitive fights.

So, ‘balance’ is not just population.

But, I can understand how you might think this is all that I mean, as currently the massive disparities in population and coverage, which we have been discussing here, show clearly that this gamemode is neither balanced nor competitive in its current state.

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

SkyShroud.2865:

Serenity.6135:

The rules are the same for all servers. How is Anet supposed to know how many people will transfer to a server, are the devs psychics? Now, you were on HoD which was also closed for some time, and recently opened up correct? If there were mass transfers to HoD which completely threw off the matchups would you still be saying the same thing?

Once again, Anet devs are not psychic, the rules are the same for ALL servers, and we will not be given all the data that they have and use.

The rules are the same but the foundation isn’t the same. The rules do not account for the different foundations therefore the rules are a failure.

Why some servers can queue 4 maps while some don’t despite both being full? Devs already did mention the threshold is fixed and just because it is fixed doesn’t mean you cannot exceed that threshold due to having massive foundation, it isn’t rocket science, it isn’t difficult math.

Serenity.6135:

I think some people seem to forget at times that this is a game…Trying to dictate how long a person stays active in a game with made up timetables is over the top and absurd.

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive? There is no philosophy differences here, you are being kick for being inactive. I find your reasoning illogical or able to be sympathy about it, basically uncomprehending.

Wait, so this is not just a game to you? Clearly it’s not me who is emotionally bothered. I believe players should be free to play however they want, whenever. You seem to think that players who don’t play X content for X amount of time need to be penalized because it does not benefit you. Throwing out straw man arguments based on emotion and little consideration of how it would affect others does not help your case.

This isn’t about others, it is about you. You are avoiding the question. I repeat…

If this is just a game to you, then why do you feel emotional bothered about how system dictate you? If system dictating is you is so bothering, why aren’t you bothered about being kicked from the guild for being inactive? Why aren’t you bothered about being for being afking aka still inactive?

Logic has no emotion so please don’t tell me about straw man argument when you are obviously using emotion as part of the argument.

Um excuse me but when were you declared King of GW? Who are you to decide what should happen to every account in the game because you think it will be a benefit to you? Furthermore how do you know this would help your server? You do understand such a change would affect your server and guild as well right? And could even end up lowering your server’s population in the long run.

If it is so difficult to understand that people actually have things to do outside of playing a video game I’m sorry but that is not my fault. Lack of comprehension on your part does not mean every account needs to be subjected to such a penalty because you believe this idea will fix everything…

Btw “This isn’t about others, it is about you” This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

You see, you are using strawman argument to its fullest. Who do you think you are to represent others? You can only represent yourself and perhaps people you lead (if you are a leader), yet here you are, at times speak for yourself and at times use others as sympathy tools in your argument. Please do not use others as a convenient tools for your argument, is disgusting. If you have some forms of consistency in the subjects of your arguments, I won’t be annoyed but you don’t have that consistency.

Now, can you stop avoiding the question and answer it? Or perhaps you are avoiding because you know the answer is against yourself?

If problematic servers can not be toned down to the rest of the servers.

If ANet is not going to try to try to fix balance modifiers to server who completely outmanned nearly 24/7.

I will say this solution again. Unlock the AOE cap. If the mindless zombie blob of 60 plus players are just going to mindlessly try to blob 24 or less players around the map. Then those 24 or less players are going to need to be able to have tools to be able to either, make the huge blob at least work on the positioning and not just stack and die. Or they will just all take the full effect from the AOE, they decided to just mindlessly sit in.

With this option I’m bringing up again. The much smaller group of players will be able to somewhat neutralize, the blob’s safety in numbers tactics. And this will make engaging WvW gameplay even when faced with a wall of zombie like players when you are out manned 2 or 3 times to 1.

Outnumbered : now removes the 5 target limit.

please make it so

joneirikb.7506:

Outnumbered : now removes the 5 target limit.

please make it so

I honestly would so take this buff over the extra pips. ANet should make it so.

Reaper Alim.4176:

joneirikb.7506:

Outnumbered : now removes the 5 target limit.

please make it so

I honestly would so take this buff over the extra pips. ANet should make it so.

The grilled cheese buff! (Melty goodness).

I actually think this is a smart idea; give the underdog a tiny chance.

Could it be exploited though?

Jayne.9251:

Reaper Alim.4176:

joneirikb.7506:

Outnumbered : now removes the 5 target limit.

please make it so

I honestly would so take this buff over the extra pips. ANet should make it so.

The grilled cheese buff! (Melty goodness).

I actually think this is a smart idea; give the underdog a tiny chance.

Could it be exploited though?

Yes. It could be exploited. I can think of a few, and I am by far not the most in tune to possibilities.

But it would be worth a trial.

Kovu.7560:

atheria.2837:

Undo the links.

Undo the Megaserver.

Give us back our communities.

Give us back tournaments.

WvW, fixed.

Without megaserver pve would be a ghost town for most servers on all but the newest or most wealth producing maps. Communities, as they were and are in wvw, never existed in open world pve to begin with. There is no “world” chat.
Tournaments steer the flow of ppt even further towards the servers with higher population, better off-hour coverage and only serve to burn people out and cause drama.
Without links many servers are basically dead on most of the maps, and all servers have fewer opponents to fight.

How are any of those things a good idea?

~ Kovu

Kovo, you can have megaserver in WvW and pve still separated, it can be done.

We don’t need guest servers, we need intact WvW servers with the ability to call out to the GW2 community of that server.

Hint: Make a channel for your world that can be seen by all players on your server, not a megasever per se, but a WAY to call out to YOUR WORLD!

ONE MORE CHAT CHANNEL WILL NOT KILL PERFORMANCE!

We NEED to be able to call OUT TO OUR RESPECTIVE WORLDS!!!

Look, the problem with WvW is that it isn’t competitive on a meta level except outside of the game. And there it is easily exploited and abused because the devs don’t have the courage to fix it.

And that is all the dev’s fault. They failed.

Their tech is amazing. If you have the gear it is possible to run 3 screens at 7680×1440 maxed settings and you only really have issues if both full zergs hit each other at the same time. That alone is an incredible achievement.

But the meta game is shallow and pathetic. It’s all about buying guilds to fill up your time slots so that you can dominate with numbers while also fooling the devs (who seem to like to be fooled) into opening up your super stacked server for even more players.

And this has been going on since launch. Really? How sad do you have to be to not realize that your game design sucks after years of the same BS?

ANET wins at the moment because they are the only game in town for this type of RvR. But most serious RvR players quit this junk soon after launch, they saw this pile for what it is.

There are a couple of games coming that might finally address the issues that the ANET devs dont’ seem capable of. If they succeed that’s great and WvW will be a ghost town. If they dont’ then someone else eventually will.

But at this point you can almost guarantee that the ANET devs will never address the most basic flaws in their design. If they haven’t had the courage to do it by now, they never will.

Grim West.3194:

Look, the problem with WvW is that it isn’t competitive on a meta level except outside of the game. And there it is easily exploited and abused because the devs don’t have the courage to fix it.

And that is all the dev’s fault. They failed.

Their tech is amazing. If you have the gear it is possible to run 3 screens at 7680×1440 maxed settings and you only really have issues if both full zergs hit each other at the same time. That alone is an amazing achievement.

But the meta game is shallow and pathetic. It’s all about buying guilds to fill up your time slots so that you can dominate with numbers while also fooling the devs (who seem to like to be fooled) into opening up your super stacked server for even more players.

And this has been going on since launch. Really? How sad do you have to be to not realize that your game design sucks after years of the same BS?

ANET wins at the moment because they are the only game in town for this type of RvR. But most serious RvR players quit this junk soon after launch, they saw this pile for what it is.

There are a couple of games coming that might finally address the issues that the ANET devs dont’ seem capable of. If they succeed that’s great and WvW will be a ghost town. If they dont’ then someone else eventually will.

But at this point you can almost guarantee that the ANET devs will never address the most basic flaws in their design. If they haven’t had the courage to do it by now, they never will.

Sad to say as much as I love the game mode. I might have to finally give in and ship out. ANet is just not willing to provide a decent WvW experience anymore, what so ever. There are so many solutions to the problem. Yet ANet refuse to take a single one. The least intrusive one is to, unlock AOE cap when you have the outnumbered buff. But ANet can’t even be bother to do that.

kitten and I was serious about to pull the trigger on buying enoth gems to convert into gold for eternity too. Lucky as a fight oriented WvW player I thought twice. Going to have to change my sig, after the two times in T-1 this month. Mines and many other players gameplay experience completely shattered not only by the players looking for free steamrolls, but the developers who continue to enable them. It just sucks that we have to be the sacrificial lambs for these sadist type players.

At this point, since ANet is not going to try to make any more effort towards making WvW a fun and engaging experience for us fight oriented players. And use us as the sacrificial lambs for the mindless zombie like BG bandwagoners that must maliciously discourage players from playing the game mode they like. Guess PoF will more then likely be my last purchase from this company.

kittening pathetic Anet honestly speaking. Go royally kitten your selves.

Grim West.3194:

Look, the problem with WvW is that it isn’t competitive on a meta level except outside of the game. And there it is easily exploited and abused because the devs don’t have the courage to fix it.

But at this point you can almost guarantee that the ANET devs will never address the most basic flaws in their design. If they haven’t had the courage to do it by now, they never will.

I don’t think it’s about courage — but interests; they want the game to be just like it is now. I can’t describe it, my post will likely be deleted if I do – so think about it. I do.

It’s my way or the highway, really.

They talk about working with “the community”, but that is very divided, though we can guess which part of community they favor (hint: see what kind of game this became, the kind that loves doing these things)
So don’t expect anything, even more so, that they are super silent about what is their focus. Just look at past patches: the reward system (that’s fine, though not perfect), gliding (still needs borders fixed), buffed cata damage (just died recently from a single cata hit, GG, was “fun”), and so on – nothing about balance or bringing back any level of competitiveness… basically it’s a game mode where you can do your dailies or get some sort of item for a legendary. That’s it.

“I feel sorry for the people who still have hope the most.” (Sacrx, 3 years ago)
RiP.

Tiawal.2351:

Grim West.3194:

Look, the problem with WvW is that it isn’t competitive on a meta level except outside of the game. And there it is easily exploited and abused because the devs don’t have the courage to fix it.

But at this point you can almost guarantee that the ANET devs will never address the most basic flaws in their design. If they haven’t had the courage to do it by now, they never will.

I don’t think it’s about courage — but interests; they want the game to be just like it is now. I can’t describe it, my post will likely be deleted if I do – so think about it. I do.

I think it is about courage, the WvW devs actually formulated the battlegroup design, anet execs got scared off actually implementing it and used the poll on linking as justification.

The current population algorithm is a mess, especially for a server like Desolation, which has been the home of many of the pve population.

Even though that is now on a megaserver, we are left with full population, that only plays occasionally and does not involve themselves in their own wvw community.

You are left with queues or players, especially to a EB, full with pugs which have little regard to allowing their commander, to have to an organized and coordinated zerg.
May it be bearbows, dragon hunters, thieves who attempt to zerg in zerker armour or double axe warriors, they just don’t end up being useful.

You are always going to have the super casual players in wvw, but to be stuck with so many you try to support with a tag, voice comms, community site and discord, you might aswell be in EoTM.

Pensadora.9478:

Serenity.6135:

… snipped to make more readible

This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

By ‘every single account’ and “ENTIRE” are you referring to ALL the accounts ever established in GW2?

Do you mean ALL the accounts ever established and have played WvW at some point, any point no matter how long ago, or how dead the account?

Do you mean ALL the ACTIVE accounts in the game or in WvW currently? If so, how do you define and measure ACTIVE?

Exactly what is the composition of the ENTIRE playerbase of accounts that you think ANET is concerned with when analyzing which fixes will be applied to WvW?

Every account is tied to a server, therefore such an idea could potentially affect every account.

And I must say I am puzzled as to why any guild leader, especially a wvw focused one would ever support an idea that would remove people from their server, while they post threads on the forum about population imbalances, and players going to other servers…

Serenity.6135:

Every account is tied to a server, therefore such an idea could potentially affect every account.

And I must say I am puzzled as to why any guild leader, especially a wvw focused one would ever support an idea that would remove people from their server, while they post threads on the forum about population imbalances, and players going to other servers…

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ve clearly stated my reasons for wanting balance and fairness in competition in WvW.

As to the appeal to me as a guild leader, let me help you understand. I lead a guild that is WvW-focused. It’s what we do. It’s where we spend our time together.

Regularly, our guild releases players when they are no longer active in WvW. We send them a nice note and invite them to rejoin us when they get back to playing. Some may eventually reactivate, but find they are on a different server from us, and then make the choice to transfer to join us, or not.

This is exactly what I support we recommend to ANet related to inactive or dead accounts. So, being a guild leader has clearly helped me see the reasonableness of this approach.

Because MAS is a growing fight team, this also influences much of my desire to see things less like EOTM with mindless blobs, ktrains and guaranteed wins each week, but more based on team, coordination and skill.

In the end, it’s just common sense to think that a competitive gamemode would actually try to maintain a balanced, fair and competitive playing field.

The saddest part of WvW is that “winning” is determined more by what goes on outside the playing area then what goes on inside.

It’s even worse that Anet has allowed this to happen since the beginning.

The bandwagoners are just going to jump on the next bandwagon servers and it will repeat all over again. If they say it’s for friends and guild, it’s still the same because their friends and guild are moving because of bandwagoning.

Kolisch.4691:

The bandwagoners are just going to jump on the next bandwagon servers and it will repeat all over again. If they say it’s for friends and guild, it’s still the same because their friends and guild are moving because of bandwagoning.

The links gone or new worlds.

One way or another someone needs to address the imbalances in numbers.

Serenity.6135:

Um excuse me but when were you declared King of GW? Who are you to decide what should happen to every account in the game because you think it will be a benefit to you? Furthermore how do you know this would help your server? You do understand such a change would affect your server and guild as well right? And could even end up lowering your server’s population in the long run.

[snip]

Btw “This isn’t about others, it is about you” This is essentially what is wrong with your idea. It could affect every single account but you take no consideration whatsoever. Do you not understand, devs look at how changes and features affect the ENTIRE player base not individual servers or players.

He’s going on this crusade, using ad homien attacks against you and others, and he’s missing the point. You’re right. Even if they delete the servers and make all new ones, BlackGate will just re-stack on whatever server they choose, and the cycle will repeat.

Reaper Alim.4176:

I will say this solution again. Unlock the AOE cap. If the mindless zombie blob of 60 plus players are just going to mindlessly try to blob 24 or less players around the map. Then those 24 or less players are going to need to be able to have tools to be able to either, make the huge blob at least work on the positioning and not just stack and die. Or they will just all take the full effect from the AOE, they decided to just mindlessly sit in.

With this option I’m bringing up again. The much smaller group of players will be able to somewhat neutralize, the blob’s safety in numbers tactics. And this will make engaging WvW gameplay even when faced with a wall of zombie like players when you are out manned 2 or 3 times to 1.

I’m sorry, but that’s a terrible idea. If you remove the AoE cap, you’re just going to make it faster for that 60+ blob to steamroll the >24 blob with AoE Condi Bomb.

What the mode needs is changes to the towers/keeps so that defending from the walls are not a death sentence.

The other thing the mode needs is to kill links. Not everyone wants to be fighting T1/T2, and making some servers into unwilling mercenaries to others is killing morale.

Pensadora.9478:

Jayne.9251:

Pensadora.9478:

And I would point out that not one person has yet to argue that this gamemode is balanced nor competitive in its current state.

You need to let this go. WvW was never meant to be balanced. The devs themselves have said this many times over the past four years.

I think what you think I mean by balanced is not what I mean by balance. I do NOT mean by balance: equal numbers on each side, as in soccer, football, baseball, etc.

Balanced, as far as I am concerned, is a multi-faceted measure. It is the summation of many factors, population being among them, that create fair and competitive fights.

So, ‘balance’ is not just population.

But, I can understand how you might think this is all that I mean, as currently the massive disparities in population and coverage, which we have been discussing here, show clearly that this gamemode is neither balanced nor competitive in its current state.

That’s all on the players though. Asking Anet to parent when it’s within their power to remedy is like herding cats.

Until the players, guilds, get their act together, no amount of blowing up and rebuilding will fix the issue.

That said, with the dev response, this thread should die lol. It’s academic at this point.

To me the easiest fix is strict population limits. Make it so no team can have a greater than 10% or 3 player advantage on any map (use whichever one is greater). If people leave a map with no one else in queue, put in a time delay per person (1 min/person) so the team could have a short advantage if they make a blob ragequit.

• Would prevent blobs from map hopping to empty maps
• Would significantly slow night capping
• Would force high pop servers across all time zones to split up their population or face huge queue times

Other posts that make sense I saw were to break ties to WvW “servers” if someone has been inactive in WvW for several weeks.

Easiest fix is this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Elastic-servers/first#post6703028

Forces people to spread out. Or not play.

Kylden Ar.3724:

BlackGate will just re-stack on whatever server they choose, and the cycle will repeat.

That’s ok, server deletion doesn’t have to be a one time thing!

I find it pretty silly that Anet merged so many servers, yet won’t touch the Stackgate server problem.

It’s REALLY annoying to get get paired up with servers that are under-performing, then get rematched/paired with servers you fought against. Anet’s “balancing” servers in WvW is a horrible joke. They have ruined any sense of server pride for those servers that are constantly paired up with others.

It’s clear the home server system is a failure in WvW.

Kylden Ar.3724:

He’s going on this crusade, using ad homien attacks against you and others, and he’s missing the point. You’re right. Even if they delete the servers and make all new ones, BlackGate will just re-stack on whatever server they choose, and the cycle will repeat.

And you are wrong, just like him, refusing to read? Just because you remake servers, you don’t have to implement the same system. If it isn’t the same system design which allow stacking to occur but instead a system design that aim to correct the flaws of the old one, how can you stack then?

I pretty sure I repeated this numerous times to numerous people who simply refuse to read the thread.