Guild Wars 2

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Gudradain.3892:

some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep

Hmmm

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Hmmm

Gudradain.3892:

constant effort

Gudradain.3892:

while you sleep

Somebody isn’t trying hard enough. You gotta want it!!!!

Max ppt: 695
230 * 3 = 690
wow such math

No thanks.

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

The funny part is, that that random server is ticking 600 while some of their people are awake, and some of yours as well

Ruin.3461:

Max ppt: 695
230 * 3 = 690
wow such math

And your point is? 230 is just a number. It can be anything you want it to be between 0 and 695.

Talk about the concept!

Would it helps to make the score of all server in a match up closer?

Gudradain.3892:

And your point is? 230 is just a number. It can be anything you want it to be between 0 and 695.

Talk about the concept!

Would it helps to make the score of all server in a match up closer?

Perhaps 694 might be a good number, then?

i said it before make it so enemy objectives are worth no PPT to you and the game becomes about DENYING enemy points while holding your own.

SMC would be the only thing that gives points to whoever holds it.

the max PPT you could then get would be 255

If you owned all maps the score would be 255-0-0 per turn

also then if server A caps all of server B’s border, it doesn’t give them a point lead over server C.

Solstice.1097:

also then if server A caps all of server B’s border, it doesn’t give them a point lead over server C.

Then why even bother leaving your own BL to cap something? There would only be fights in EB, if you can’t get points for other BLs.

It’s funny how we debated “night-capping” ab absurdum over a year ago. Even then it was obvious how flawed the system was.

ANet’s response then was “all is fair in love and war”.

Basically “deal with it”.

I wonder if their views have somewhat evolved since then….

I still think it’s alright.

People just need to not lose their heads when they lose territory. Maybe they just don’t like feelin like the entire week long match involving thousands of players isn’t somehow in their control.

We don’t need a cap, we just need to limit the rate at which the leading team can acquire them. See my suggestion here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Objective-Decay

I read your suggestion Sube Dai, but I fear it might make it impossible for the small servers to defend their objectives. We have a very limited population and sometimes only 10 players on one map. Besides, what’s to stop the zergs from running around circle-capping?

I wake up and read this? Why did I wake up?

So, now how does the server that falls behind ever catch up to that big bad server if the PPT is capped at 230???? Or 400 or whatever. The big bad server is always going to lead by a RELATIVE amount greater than what is mathematically impossible to catch up to!

What you really meant was “I want the ability for my server to push a button and PPT cap the server in the lead, but never PPT cap us. All big servers should be hobbled so my server can win too!”

While we’re at it, let’s make it so season 2, everyone wins and gets 3 reward chests and at the end we all get legendaries.

In fact, those folks with a legendary weapon have a distinct WvW advantage because they played PvE while I slept. There should be a ‘Legendary progress Cap’ that rewards not playing and punishes folks who play more than 4 hours a day so that I can be just as powerfult with 1/10th the work, ya?

Oh and another thing, Castles and keeps is hard, brah. Make every objectives in WvW worth 50 PPT (capped at 20 PPT) that way I don’t have to spend as long capping stuff, and make the achievements just ‘number of things done’ so that will be done quicker too.

I’m tired and I don’t want to play anymore.

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Nice try sport, but you can reach and sustain 600PPT and do it NOT while everyone is asleep, so…………..problem is not solved…….

no thanks noty

Andrew Clear.1750:

Solstice.1097:

also then if server A caps all of server B’s border, it doesn’t give them a point lead over server C.

Then why even bother leaving your own BL to cap something? There would only be fights in EB, if you can’t get points for other BLs.

including EB you can’t get points for enemy stuff. plus there is a map a cap.

hex.3218:

All big servers should be hobbled so my server can win too!"

In your sarcasm you have hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what needs to happen.

Given an imbalanced match, and if the population disparity cannot be fixed (and I believe that it cannot) Anet must introduce handicapping mechanisms.

The handicapping mechanisms won’t give the weaker server(s) a chance to win. But they should give them a chance to have successes and will make the match more fun for all three servers.

About that constant effort…

Capturing sentry points, killing dolyaks and stomping enemy players already yield a significant amount of your server’s points.

For example Piken Square gained 113033 points in a matchup. 40% of their total score!
Source: http://imgur.com/a/kctML#0

There’s already a cap. 695.

They should just give an extra bonus +250 PPT to the server that can capture the entire map. Hey they deserve it right?

Johje Holan.4607:

hex.3218:

All big servers should be hobbled so my server can win too!"

In your sarcasm you have hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what needs to happen.

Given an imbalanced match, and if the population disparity cannot be fixed (and I believe that it cannot) Anet must introduce handicapping mechanisms.

The handicapping mechanisms won’t give the weaker server(s) a chance to win. But they should give them a chance to have successes and will make the match more fun for all three servers.

Can’t. Then in close matches Server A chooses critical time to tank and get the handicap. or if it’s weekly, they tank out of season to get the handicap in season. If it’s monthly, they throw a season to get the handicap and dominate next season. You might think it’s silly, but it would happen.

And populations are equal. Just not WvW populations. The solution is….

Ruin.3461:

Max ppt: 695
230 * 3 = 690
wow such math

So? He’s saying that in a balanced match you should fight to lower your enemy ppt instead of raising yours, to prevent 1 server from ticking 600+ at night and not having to care about pushing over 100 during the day. That way the worst they can do is make you tick 0 but they still tick some capped value.

hex.3218:

Johje Holan.4607:

hex.3218:

All big servers should be hobbled so my server can win too!"

In your sarcasm you have hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what needs to happen.

Given an imbalanced match, and if the population disparity cannot be fixed (and I believe that it cannot) Anet must introduce handicapping mechanisms.

The handicapping mechanisms won’t give the weaker server(s) a chance to win. But they should give them a chance to have successes and will make the match more fun for all three servers.

Can’t. Then in close matches Server A chooses critical time to tank and get the handicap. or if it’s weekly, they tank out of season to get the handicap in season. If it’s monthly, they throw a season to get the handicap and dominate next season. You might think it’s silly, but it would happen.

And populations are equal. Just not WvW populations. The solution is….

It would be based on population in a match, or PPT, or score. So weekly or seasons wouldn’t come into play. Tanking would do you no good.

Gudradain.3892:

Ruin.3461:

Max ppt: 695
230 * 3 = 690
wow such math

And your point is? 230 is just a number. It can be anything you want it to be between 0 and 695.

Talk about the concept!

Would it helps to make the score of all server in a match up closer?

His point is, if you cap it at 230, then all 3 servers should have 230 points lol.

If it can be anything, I think it should be 695. Max, no more than that.

Player Character.9467:

He’s saying that in a balanced match you should fight to lower your enemy ppt instead of raising yours, to prevent 1 server from ticking 600+ at night and not having to care about pushing over 100 during the day. That way the worst they can do is make you tick 0 but they still tick some capped value.

Thank you very much for understanding the idea. It’s refreshing

What you say is absolutely true and it’s the goal behind my suggestion. I think it could help to balance the score between all the servers in a match up.

We don’t need a ppt cap… WvW is a 24/7 fight, just a few servers can manage that and they’re on top of the leaderboard of course.

But the WvW leaderboard doesn’t mean which server is better, this leaderboard just show who have more coverage and matchup against servers with a similiar coverage, and is the way how they have to do it…

For example, i’m from Baruch here we have population until about 4am, if we play on gold league (high tiers) we have people to fight against, when we were on lower tiers (now silver league) was just PvD during nights and mornings, maybe some servers have more skills than some t1 servers, i don’t doubt about that, but there are more players who want to have fun on WvW outside prime time…

So WvW leaderboard have to show the servers with more cover to matchup this servers against them, and the low pop servers against them, to be more fair and fun for everyone.

If for example just count the points on prime time, almost all servers would be near on points, this means that maybe Vizunah maybe could Matchup against one silver server who don’t have too much coverage, and this would mean that Vizunah players would be almost all day bored doing PvD.

I hope you get what i mean

majos.8503:

We don’t need a ppt cap… WvW is a 24/7 fight, just a few servers can manage that and they’re on top of the leaderboard of course.

But the WvW leaderboard doesn’t mean which server is better, this leaderboard just show who have more coverage and matchup against servers with a similiar coverage, and is the way how they have to do it…

For example, i’m from Baruch here we have population until about 4am, if we play on gold league (high tiers) we have people to fight against, when we were on lower tiers (now silver league) was just PvD during nights and mornings, maybe some servers have more skills than some t1 servers, i don’t doubt about that, but there are more players who want to have fun on WvW outside prime time…

So WvW leaderboard have to show the servers with more cover to matchup this servers against them, and the low pop servers against them, to be more fair and fun for everyone.

If for example just count the points on prime time, almost all servers would be near on points, this means that maybe Vizunah maybe could Matchup against one silver server who don’t have too much coverage, and this would mean that Vizunah players would be almost all day bored doing PvD.

I hope you get what i mean

Good post and I agree with you on many points but I have to disagree on others.

One thing I disagree on is that you consider that this change would not make the stronger server win, which is not the case. A gold league server will still beat a silver tier server if there was a PPT cap because only the gold tier server will be able to reduce it’s opponent PPT below the cap in order to gain the lead.

We all want to make WvW more fair and fun for everyone. I’m well aware that there is currently a huge population imbalance problem that is plaguing WvW and that this problem is making many match up not only unfair but also not very fun for many.

I didn’t suggest this change to fix this population problem but rather to help fix a few problems with the current scoring system. These are 2 different problems that need different solution.

One of the problem that bother me very much with the current scoring system is that there is no come back in match up because the stronger server get huge lead very fast. So in 1 or 2 days, or even just a few hours, it’s already clear who is the winner and there is nothing you can do to change it.

I propose this change to make the score of all servers closer together. The stronger server will still win (I’m almost 100% sure that they will still win), but at least they won’t win by over 100k points. Even if it’s just for psychological factor it’s already a great help to WvW players.

But the benefits don’t stop there. Since the score are closer together it opens the opportunity to strategic play by the weaker server to get a chance to win anyway. Sentry are worth 1 point, dolyak killing 3 points, dolyak that reach a keep 3 points, stomping players 1 point when you have bloodlust. With the current score system all these doesn’t matter since the score are so different, but if the score are all closer together, all these little tasks can become very important and a server that diligently kill all dolyak even if it can’t hold structure against much bigger zerg than theirs, might have a shot at winning the match.

It also helps with the whole PvDooring thing in off hours like I mention before.

Bringing a PPT cap would definitively help the scoring in WvW and it’s a simple change to implement.

Well i get your point, but i don’t agree with it…

This MU for us: Elona vs Baruch vs Vizunah

Yesterday i went to sleep at 2am, we where wining by 200-300 points. I just woke up and we are loosing by 12.150 points. Of course this just show the population imbalance and we can’t do anything against that. But well, Vizunah did a hard work organizing their people during nights and maybe talking to lot of people to cover this hours. They deserve that this work can be shown on points.

Also if we had this cap, mosts of MU would be deciced on monday, so now, there are lots of servers like Riverside or Elona that on weekends are very strong, and during week they become weaker, or Baruch or Piken that on weekends is a weak server and becomes strong during week, so if we had this cap, maybe some server could manage enough points during weekends against us, and would be imposible to comeback from servers like Baruch or Piken, the same on the other hand, there are servers like Elona and Riverside that have a really great performance on weekends, and they maybe would win MU in 2 days, when their performance during the week is not as good as the other servers.

So it would make another population imbalance… Weekend servers against Week servers… I don’t know if you understand what i mean (i know my english is not the best)

majos.8503:

Well i get your point, but i don’t agree with it…

This MU for us: Elona vs Baruch vs Vizunah

Yesterday i went to sleep at 2am, we where wining by 200-300 points. I just woke up and we are loosing by 12.150 points. Of course this just show the population imbalance and we can’t do anything against that. But well, Vizunah did a hard work organizing their people during nights and maybe talking to lot of people to cover this hours. They deserve that this work can be shown on points.

Also if we had this cap, mosts of MU would be deciced on monday, so now, there are lots of servers like Riverside or Elona that on weekends are very strong, and during week they become weaker, or Baruch or Piken that on weekends is a weak server and becomes strong during week, so if we had this cap, maybe some server could manage enough points during weekends against us, and would be imposible to comeback from servers like Baruch or Piken, the same on the other hand, there are servers like Elona and Riverside that have a really great performance on weekends, and they maybe would win MU in 2 days, when their performance during the week is not as good as the other servers.

So it would make another population imbalance… Weekend servers against Week servers… I don’t know if you understand what i mean (i know my english is not the best)

I understand your point too but I can’t agree with it either

Don’t you find it a bit a unfair that Vizunah can gain a lead of 12k over you while you sleep when you were winning before that? I understand that Vizunah deserve to have the lead because of their hard work at night and even with a cap they would still have the lead because since they tick so high it means that you tick very low, so they get more points than you. But, isn’t 12k a bit too much in only 1 night? At this point the match is pretty much already decided. Vizunah will win and you will fight with the other server for 2nd place.

Now what would happen with a PPT cap is that when you woke up Vizunah would still have the lead, but they would only have a lead of 4k for example instead of 12,5k. This make it much easier for you to come back into the match up and you still got a shot at second.

You can get a lot of points by killing dolyaks, sentries, controlling bloodlust, escorting your dolyak. Since the score are closer, all the work your roamer and small group does is a lot more important. Zerg would no longer be the only thing that make you win. If you have great roamer that kill every single dolyak and control all bloodlust, you could win a match up in which you are outnumbered. You now have the possibility to outplay your opponent in WvW to win.

Btw, English is not my first language either

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Every child gets a prize?

Or every child who plays when I do gets a prize?

Or the irony of complaining about servers who have coverage while claiming ‘If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort’.

Recruit, move, or play for the fights.

Cuddlepie.8109:

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Every child gets a prize?

Or every child who plays when I do gets a prize?

Or the irony of complaining about servers who have coverage while claiming ‘If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort’.

Recruit, move, or play for the fights.

This is exactly the “Every child gets a prize” generation that is complaining here. You are getting a new map to play on in a few weeks where score doesn’t matter.
Problem solved.

Cuddlepie.8109:

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Every child gets a prize?

Or every child who plays when I do gets a prize?

Or the irony of complaining about servers who have coverage while claiming ‘If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort’.

Recruit, move, or play for the fights.

Except the current coverage issues have nothing to do with constant effort.

Server 1 & Server 2 → High population from 4pm server to 2am server
Server 3 → High population from 4am server to 2pm server

Server 3 automatically wins because they play in NA servers but aren’t from NA.

Player Character.9467:

Cuddlepie.8109:

Gudradain.3892:

Title says it all.

You know what the big problem about scoring is? It’s some random server ticking at 600 PPT while you sleep gaining so much points that there is no way you can come back even if you play all day long.

Limit PPT to 230 max per server and problem solve.

If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort. Not just PvDooring while everyone is asleep.

Every child gets a prize?

Or every child who plays when I do gets a prize?

Or the irony of complaining about servers who have coverage while claiming ‘If you want to win a match up, you have to put constant effort’.

Recruit, move, or play for the fights.

Except the current coverage issues have nothing to do with constant effort.

Server 1 & Server 2 -> High population from 4pm server to 2am server
Server 3 -> High population from 4am server to 2pm server

Server 3 automatically wins because they play in NA servers but aren’t from NA.

It takes a lot of effort to move to a server with more coverage, what are you talking about