Guild Wars 2

Straegen.2938:

Burnfall.9573:

“There is never room for Discussion and Rationality, if one is Enslaved to Denyingl the Truth”

This quote applies as much to your posts as it does anyone else.

Burnfall must be a politician with his “the truth is what I say it is” attitude.

Burnfall.9573:

Straegen

I play a ranger class, what more Truth do u need?

Isn’t that Rational enough?

What’s more to discuss?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ksn16H0OE

So your basis for claiming thief is OP is:

Anecdotal evidence where a weaker duelist class gets beaten by a stronger duelist class in a 1v1.

The fact that you are a ranger. No explanation, just that you are a ranger.

Seems legit.

I hate mesmers. I hate how they have damage, deception, mitigation, and cc all in a single package. I am not a Mesmer. Therefore, by your logic, that is proof that Mesmer is OP.

Or do I also have to link a video of a Mesmer killing someone?

Same intentions they have about “Skill Delay” ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Colly.4073:

Same intentions they have about “Skill Delay” ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

No seriously. They put well over a year into thieves. This makes it quite obvious what they intended. They wanted an assassin class; an illusive class that can easily punish unwary players and easily confound players who don’t know how to think in a PvP situation.
If you aren’t trying to guess your opponent’s intentions in a fight you’ll only win by luck. You aren’t much better then a button masher in a fighting game.

Honestly just play like you’re a newly born lvl 80 and burst em when their pants are at their lowest point. In a small group setting thieves are a pain, but a single thief against any half decent group is a dead man.

kishter.9578:

seen all white knight in this post are thief.

There’s a reason for that. Thieves tend to know which necro abilities give them trouble … something you obviously don’t.

This endless debate is why I have no clue what Anet is thinking. Thieves should have been altered 6 months ago already. Anyone who’s been playing since launch knows the endless threads there were on the subject in the fall.

The problem is, most WvW players are not built for 1v1. Thus, we actually are just cattle to Thieves. Like my Staff Ele, good luck taking on a thief with a Staff Ele. If a thief stealth’s in behind you and initiates with a backstab, which is easy to do by the camps, you are done for.

I think the core conversation is that, the Dev’s need to learn, grieving DOES NOT create a better gaming experience. That MOST players do not enjoy so much adversity and “challenge”. This is what happens when the main sPvP Dev, who loves dueling and creating tears (as he put it) has too much control over the entire game.

If a thief continues to bother you, just put in map chat that an area requires a Wash n’ Roll by the nearest Zerg

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

27,416 of damage and i dot even have to react, GG, The battle was a totally balance, but to the thief side—-
how can you fight something that can burst you in 2 sec and IF you have time to react they “PUFF” thanks to the great, incredible and only mechanic in any ever MMORGP -stealth as will-

OK im done whit this, hey thief around T1-when you see my necro “khasastra” just jump on me i will stand still, dont worry about me if you win is ok, if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead, lest make this easy just kill me. I will be Akitten that way i wont rage when you kill me because this mechanic.

GG

edit: filter A-F-K?

kishter.9578:

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

how can you fight something thats can burst you in 2 sec and IF you have time to react they “PUFF” thansk to the great, incredible and only mechanic in any ever MMORGP -stealth as will-

Start by learning to use your dodges/DS to avoid damage. Then learn to use your fears to interrupt their stealth. Staff #5 counters refuge, DS #3 counters stealth heal/smoke field heart seeker, Reapers Protection counters basilisk venom/fear steal skill. Also, posting screen shots of damage doesn’t show anything other than you stood there and face tanked a bunch of hits like an idiot. If you want to post a video of you fighting a thief, then I can write up a much more detailed post explaining exactly why you are bad.

DeWolfe.2174:

This endless debate is why I have no clue what Anet is thinking. Thieves should have been altered 6 months ago already. Anyone who’s been playing since launch knows the endless threads there were on the subject in the fall.

The problem is, most WvW players are not built for 1v1. Thus, we actually are just cattle to Thieves. Like my Staff Ele, good luck taking on a thief with a Staff Ele. If a thief stealth’s in behind you and initiates with a backstab, which is easy to do by the camps, you are done for.

I think the core conversation is that, the Dev’s need to learn, grieving DOES NOT create a better gaming experience. That MOST players do not enjoy so much adversity and “challenge”. This is what happens when the main sPvP Dev, who loves dueling and creating tears (as he put it) has too much control over the entire game.

If a thief continues to bother you, just put in map chat that an area requires a Wash n’ Roll by the nearest Zerg

So you’re saying every set should have the same focus and aptitude? A staff ele should be able to perform in melee range just as well as a D/D Ele, and the D/D Ele to perform just as well at 1200 range? Why would the have different weapon sets if they all were reskins of each other?
Also, if you don’t want adversity or challenge, stay the heck away from PvP environments. PvP is about challenging each other and pushing each other to the limit. If you don’t want to fight seriously then don’t expect to win. In short, in PvP, high challenge comes with the territory.

Thief is assassin class of this game, and just like every assassin in every game before it, it’s their job to get quick kills on the weak and unaware. If you aren’t going to respect that, don’t expect to do well against them.

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

We should duel sometime, Waffler.

Waffler

You missed what kishter said which is the main Porblem with Stealth Theif.

Once and for all- to All Thieves

" if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead",

Your advice or any anyone advices does not apply here.

How is this Justified?

Example’ 2 boxers in a boxing match.

Boxer A- Any class
Boxer B- THief

Boxer A is winning with knockdowns than all of sudden Boxer B pull out a gun and shoots Boxer A and hide.. than return and finsih killing off. Boxer A.

Seriously,

You find this Justified or Fair?

Well that’s the Advantage thief have that no other class do.

That’s the Problem

What’s so hard to comprehend?

Even a child can get it..

Burnfall.9573:

Waffler

You missed what kishter said which is the main Porblem with Stealth Theif.

Once and for all- to All Thieves

" if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead",

Your advice or any anyone advices does not apply here.

How is this Justified?

Example’ 2 boxers in a boxing match.

Boxer A- Any class
Boxer B- THief

Boxer A is winning with knockdowns than all of sudden Boxer B pull out a gun and shoots Boxer A and hide.. than return and finsih killing off. Boxer A.

Seriously,

You find this Justified or Fair?

Well that’s the Advantage thief have that no other class do.

That’s the Problem

What’s so hard to comprehend?

Even a child can get it..

30 pts in spite, rare veggie pizza, runes of necromancer → 90% increased fear duration that will be rounded up to 100% since the game rounds to the nearest quarter second. Staff #5 (2 second fear) → Spectral Wall (2 second fear) → DS #3 (3 second fear), please explain how the thief is going to run away while he is feared for 7 seconds. Not to mention with 1700 condi damage that will give you over 9k damage from terror alone, add in bleeds/burning/torment/poison plus the immob on DS #5 and the thief is dead. The complaining about thieves comes from people with 3 second reaction times who are incapable of interrupting skills or dodging attacks.

JakobGW.5730:

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

We should duel sometime, Waffler.

Transfer to a different server and we’re on

Burnfall.9573:

Straegen

I play a ranger class, what more Truth do u need?

Isn’t that Rational enough?

What’s more to discuss?

I have more hours logged on my Ranger than any of my other 80s. I know better than to go toe-to-toe with a thief post pet patch. The RRR build before the pet nerf was more than capable of killing thieves since the jag from stealth hit like a truck and wasn’t fooled by thief stealth.

The ranger in that video played poorly… I also don’t understand how a ranger can avoid the GS in WvW due to its very HIGH mobility. Makes ride the lightning look like a chump skill.

Burnfall.9573:

Waffler

You missed what kishter said which is the main Porblem with Stealth Theif.

Once and for all- to All Thieves

" if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead",

Your advice or any anyone advices does not apply here.

How is this Justified?

Example’ 2 boxers in a boxing match.

Boxer A- Any class
Boxer B- THief

Boxer A is winning with knockdowns than all of sudden Boxer B pull out a gun and shoots Boxer A and hide.. than return and finsih killing off. Boxer A.

Seriously,

You find this Justified or Fair?

Well that’s the Advantage thief have that no other class do.

That’s the Problem

What’s so hard to comprehend?

Even a child can get it..

You’re looking at it way too narrowly.
What is the goal of WvW?
Not to kill the enemy team, that’s the main point where you’re off base.

The aim of WvW is to rack up points by controlling areas of land, and nothing more then that.
Killing enemy players is only sometimes necessary to achieve this end, and usually necessary because enemy players defend their lands, but still it isn’t an absolute necessity.

Now we’ve got that out of the way, let’s look at the assassin class archetype, in context to objective based PvP.
Assassin’s are above all else, about getting kills on other players. Particularly ones that aren’t prepared for their attack. To achieve this end they are also skilled at escaping enemies. If they weren’t they wouldn’t be assassins. They’d be Suicide bombers.
Now why have a class that’s good at sudden quick kills in an objective based fight?
To disrupt the enemy team.
In the objective based PvP, it’s the assassin’s job upset the enemy ranks by suddenly disrupting their operations.
And that’s just what thieves do here in WvW. It’s why most people say to ignore the thieves, if they can’t disrupt your ranks, they’ve failed their goal.

Stop trying to make the game play by “your” rules.

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

My necro personally has little trouble with thieves and to beat the more problematic thieves, I just use my stun breaker.

Though on my guardian, the d/p ones will make me flip a table.

Thieves can be dealt with, but it would be nice to see what Anet was/is thinking about thieves.

DeWolfe.2174:

Like my Staff Ele, good luck taking on a thief with a Staff Ele. If a thief stealth’s in behind you and initiates with a backstab, which is easy to do by the camps, you are done for.

This… right here… this. Do not take a zerg group build (as in lots of big AoE) into a solo/skirmish fight against a solo/skirmish build (as in a high single target DPS) and expect to win. Switch to a bunker/roamer D/D build and suddenly thieves are going to be mostly a non-issue.

Not every build on every class is supposed to do everything.

To answer the title Q:

For you to roll a thief, leave the game or be content with being farmed by thieves.

I thought their little to no action in balancing the thief class/not hiring a competent dev to balance the class for a full year was a clear message?

Burnfall.9573:

Straegen

I play a ranger class, what more Truth do u need?

Isn’t that Rational enough?

What’s more to discuss?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ksn16H0OE

Did a P/D thief just kill a ranger? OMG P/D OP NEEDS A NERF NERF NERF.

kishter.9578:

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

27,416 of damage and i dot even have to react, GG, The battle was a totally balance, but to the thief side—-
how can you fight something that can burst you in 2 sec and IF you have time to react they “PUFF” thanks to the great, incredible and only mechanic in any ever MMORGP -stealth as will-

OK im done whit this, hey thief around T1-when you see my necro “khasastra” just jump on me i will stand still, dont worry about me if you win is ok, if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead, lest make this easy just kill me. I will be Akitten that way i wont rage when you kill me because this mechanic.

GG

edit: filter A-F-K?

thats a glassy thief and you need to learn how to dodge and use DS take the dmg/fear the thief away then you can drop him.

if you expect 2.6k armor to save you…..idk what to say.

Renxian.6982:

Burnfall.9573:

As Always and be Always..

Stealth theif; which i call it by name, is thier class of choice, Intentially.

There’s Enough of Evidence Everywhere.

They Will Never Answer Your Question Op because as many Stealth Thieves Players; they hide in denial mode- much like Stealth Mode.

Whats New?

Lol

I hope that answers your question OP

I hold out hope that one day you will post something that:

1. Makes sense
2. Provides any form of actual proof to backup any claims
3. Is factually accurate.
4. Provides meaningful room for discussion

I’m not counting on that ever happening though.

Completely agree with you Renxian.

Burnfall:
What you say is that because I’m a thief I have no right to discuss my profession? There are many good thieves in these forums that is actively giving advice to other players on how to counter us, how to read stealth and how to completely destroy these so called OP builds. But this community does for some reason completely ignore any of our attempts to help or explain, all you can say is “thief is so OP, OMFG NERFZZZZ”.

We usually try to have a real conversation and discuss what’s wrong and what could be done to fix it or alter it in any way. There are ofcourse players that will say that the thief is fine and will neglect that it’s OP, but there are many of us that wish to help and do our best to give advice and have a discussion.

The fact that Anet completely ignores the thief community is just sad. There are so many good ideas from high level thieves as what to do with the profession. Anet seem to destroy what works for us and make the zerker backstab build the best choice for us. This is not what we want, we want diversity and the ability to chose other builds and weapon sets.

kishter.9578:

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

27,416 of damage and i dot even have to react, GG, The battle was a totally balance, but to the thief side—-
how can you fight something that can burst you in 2 sec and IF you have time to react they “PUFF” thanks to the great, incredible and only mechanic in any ever MMORGP -stealth as will-

OK im done whit this, hey thief around T1-when you see my necro “khasastra” just jump on me i will stand still, dont worry about me if you win is ok, if im winning you will stealth and return back until im dead, lest make this easy just kill me. I will be Akitten that way i wont rage when you kill me because this mechanic.

GG

edit: filter A-F-K?

I have roughly the same armor as you in a full berserker set….

L2P

/15character

Most players stay close to spawn points or run in packs. Thieves are one of the few classes built to go behind enemy lines. Without stealth and escape that portion of the game play would almost cease to exist. IMO that is the intention ANet has for the thief and it probably won’t change. It would be nice to see another class (Ranger gets my vote) with big escape mechanisms and natural counters to stealth.

Geiir.7603:

What you say is that because I’m a thief I have no right to discuss my profession? There are many good thieves in these forums that is actively giving advice to other players on how to counter us, how to read stealth and how to completely destroy these so called OP builds. But this community does for some reason completely ignore any of our attempts to help or explain, all you can say is “thief is so OP, OMFG NERFZZZZ”.

What often happens is players go roll a thief and realize pretty quickly that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Once a thief grabs a hold of a decent player, it is not an easy fight. Can the thief run in those scenarios… sure but often thieves are far away from a spawn point or allies and without stealth few players will solo behind enemy lines far from a waypoint.

Straegen.2938:

DeWolfe.2174:

Like my Staff Ele, good luck taking on a thief with a Staff Ele. If a thief stealth’s in behind you and initiates with a backstab, which is easy to do by the camps, you are done for.

This… right here… this. Do not take a zerg group build (as in lots of big AoE) into a solo/skirmish fight against a solo/skirmish build (as in a high single target DPS) and expect to win. Switch to a bunker/roamer D/D build and suddenly thieves are going to be mostly a non-issue.

Not every build on every class is supposed to do everything.

I play primarily Staff Ele. I don’t have a lot of problems with Thieves. I hate fighting them, but I do ok.

That said, I don’t actually kill them. I just drop loads of CC while running/dodging away. I can usually make it to a nearby group of melee or a keep before the Thief drops me. If I can’t there’s always Mist Form downed state.

If I’m solo, as in not running with a party, then I’m probably dead. But why would I be soloing with a Staff?

PinCushion.7390:

If I’m solo, as in not running with a party, then I’m probably dead. But why would I be soloing with a Staff?

This right here makes you smarter than 99% of the thief whiners.

“I was running my zergling whatever build and soloing for no sensible reason and died to a roamer with a duelist build OP NERF!!!111” is like the most common thing I see from most of them.

Renxian.6982:

PinCushion.7390:

If I’m solo, as in not running with a party, then I’m probably dead. But why would I be soloing with a Staff?

This right here makes you smarter than 99% of the thief whiners.

“I was running my zergling whatever build and soloing for no sensible reason and died to a roamer with a duelist build OP NERF!!!111” is like the most common thing I see from most of them.

I won’t paint with that broad a brush and say that 99% of players are complaining because they’re stupid.

I will say that 99% of players are complaining because the Thief profession needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (which won’t ever happen). Not because it’s OP, but because it’s only fun for the guy playing it.

I have fun in small fights, even running my zergling build where I will usually not win. Trying to guess when the other guy’s going to burn his long cooldowns, or trying to knock him out of a heal at the right moment is fun! Except when fighting a Thief. Most of my skills miss. I can’t see the guy for most of the fight. None of my Conditions stick for longer than a second or two. If I do a few things right and get him at a disadvantage he ports away and resets.

That’s not OP. It’s just not fun. I hate fighting Thieves, so I usually just don’t. I can troll just as well as they can. I run staff for a reason. It’s hard to have fun ganking people when you spend your time dodging out of the red circles, chilled/crippled/burning. I’ll never kill them, so I just irritate them until they go somewhere else while buffing/healing my party members. If they focus on me I waste a bunch of their time running away.

The class isn’t OP. It’s corrosive to everyone else’s experience because it’s infuriating to fight. This isn’t the fault of Thief players. This is the fault of ANet for making poor design decisions.

Geiir

My Intentions were not for you to not have no rights to discuss your prof-thief.

You mentioned how Arena net completely ignores the thief community, well it is indeed sad.

But

I can tell you the reason why, and also why i agree with you why thief is forced upon the zerler backstab build.

I’m sure you hear this many times before and it’t the truth.. it is because of Favoritism.

In other word, Arena net find thief class “Perfect” in their mind and soul (as this thread title- Theives- The One Man Army—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Thieves-The-One-man-army)

They (Arena net- the Parent Class) see and find no fault with thief class; no wrong doings, no- nothing worng about them in every way.

The Irony and the Consequence when a company who playing Favoritism of classes is abusive and painful to the remaining classses and most especially to the Favorite class.

How so?

The Impact

Self-Ego (not bringing any support to the other classes)-

Grandiosity/Pride (Boasting and Humuliating “less apar/advantage” classes..

No-Accountability- (it’s Always other classes/players fault for not understanding them and not able to learn how to defeat them)

Control/Superiority- (Perma-Stealth and able to Reset fights at will)

Justification- (whatever they do wrong/abuse, they are quickly given defense and reasons for thier actions)

Reward/Power- (Only class to receive Nerf-Rewards… seriously ask yourself, :since all the “nerfs” thieves have recieved, have it resulted them in getting lesss Powerful?
Did last current patch impacted their core power?

So many; too many had left Gw2 because of this.. and many more will.

Favoritsm is Unjustified, and only Promotes Resents, Hatred, Unhealthy Treatment, Retaliation and Disertment and Unhealthy commiunity.

That is sad.

Again,

The remaining community doesn’t Hate Theives (the player) but Hate the fact how they are Intentionally granted Favor in the name of Self-Ego, Grandiousity and Pride.

Monoman.2068:

Waffler.1257:

How do you lose to a thief on a necro? Necros melt thieves in 3 seconds, I don’t even play my necro anymore because of how easy it is.

My necro personally has little trouble with thieves and to beat the more problematic thieves, I just use my stun breaker.

Though on my guardian, the d/p ones will make me flip a table.

Thieves can be dealt with, but it would be nice to see what Anet was/is thinking about thieves.

A D/P thief is a guardians nightmare? My lvl 14 guardian ripped a full glass cannon D/P thieves to pieces the other night. They have stealth on demand with black powder + heartseeker, but this is laughably easy to stop. If you interrupt the thief as he does his HS you will leave him with 9 less initiative and no stealth, and that is a really bad situation for a glass thief. If he manages to stealth and you expect him to chain stealth, just move into his blind field and his second HS will reveal him and again, less initiative with no stealth = bad situation.

S/D on the other hand can make a guardian flip tables with their boon stealing. Only problem is this build is broken. It worked fine until they added that larcenous strike >_<

Burnfall: your post history is extremely entertaining (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Burnfall-9573/showposts). Keep up the great work.

Yours truly,
A Thief

Burnfall.9573:

Geiir

My Intentions were not for you to not have no rights to discuss your prof-thief.

You mentioned how Arena net completely ignores the thief community, well it is indeed sad.

But

I can tell you the reason why, and also why i agree with you why thief is forced upon the zerler backstab build.

I’m sure you hear this many times before and it’t the truth.. it is because of Favoritism.

In other word, Arena net find thief class “Perfect” in their mind and soul (as this thread title- Theives- The One Man Army—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Thieves-The-One-man-army)

They (Arena net- the Parent Class) see and find no fault with thief class; no wrong doings, no- nothing worng about them in every way.

The Irony and the Consequence when a company who playing Favoritism of classes is abusive and painful to the remaining classses and most especially to the Favorite class.

How so?

The Impact

Self-Ego (not bringing any support to the other classes)-

Grandiosity/Pride (Boasting and Humuliating “less apar/advantage” classes..

No-Accountability- (it’s Always other classes/players fault for not understanding them and not able to learn how to defeat them)

Control/Superiority- (Perma-Stealth and able to Reset fights at will)

Justification- (whatever they do wrong/abuse, they are quickly given defense and reasons for thier actions)

Reward/Power- (Only class to receive Nerf-Rewards… seriously ask yourself, :since all the “nerfs” thieves have recieved, have it resulted them in getting lesss Powerful?
Did last current patch impacted their core power?

So many; too many had left Gw2 because of this.. and many more will.

Favoritsm is Unjustified, and only Promotes Resents, Hatred, Unhealthy Treatment, Retaliation and Disertment and Unhealthy commiunity.

That is sad.

Again,

The remaining community doesn’t Hate Theives (the player) but Hate the fact how they are Intentionally granted Favor in the name of Self-Ego, Grandiousity and Pride.

Glad to see you understand. I doesnt exactly feel that they favorite us, because we have been hit really hard by the nerf bat countless times. Most of those was changes no one asked for, which leaves the thief community baffled. I don’t understand why they doesnt have one dev for each profession that main it and is active in the forums explaining what they’re doing and why. As it is now I have yet to see a dev play thief and comment in the thief forum, other than useless answers to threads we didn’t need them in…

I do by no means defend stealth, but it won’t change. They have out too many hours into it, and removing it will require too much work. As much as I hate to say this, stealth is really a L2P issue. It’s all about knowing what the thief will do when he stealth, attack or disengage. It’s our strength, but it can also be deadly for us to stealth. I can’t count how many times I’ve died while in stealth, this because my opponent anticipated my move and therefore laid waste to me – he was the better player.

But what really baffles me is that people complain about their group focused build getting destroyed by a duelist. Of course will the duelist have an advantage against a group build. This game is really 90% the player and 10% build/profession. I’ve seen warriors with a really weak build (according to the forums) completely destroy small groups of five people. This simply because he was the better player. In an action based game like GW2 it’s all about soaking damage or better, not be there when the hammer falls. In a game like wow where it’s most about executing the best rotation it’s completely different.

The problem with thieves is a good one never dies, no matter how many opponents. They might not kill you, but you can never actually win just make them run off to try again. That’s a little OP imo.

We can argue OP or not. Truth is thief in its current form should have never made it into the game. It ridiculously bad design in terms of PvP. No class in any game should be able to us active combat stealth this much. No class should have that stealth plus superior mobility. Burst is OK but that type of burst capability should come with some major trade offs. No class should be able to spam skills. The core of the issue is that thief should have been a slipper class with Cds like the rest of us and mitigation through limited stealth. What we have instead is a class that isn’t all that great in post PvE is not great in Spvp and dominates wvw roaming. PvE is nearly irrelevant in terms of balancing Spvp is the smallest community in the game (partially due to thieves in early random arenas) and WvW which is relatively popular they get too much. Thief as it is is balanced on a needle point. Half of what is Op or nearly Op is simply needed to play the class effectively. Unless Anet over hauls thief (which likely they will not) or adds a form of stealth detection the problem will persist.

All that being said Condi thief is under powered compared to other condition specs. Range DPS is laughable, and the class is nigh useless compared to other classes for group play.

I think thief is in need of help and a nerf. I just don’t think either will happen in a way to help the class and the community.

Geiir.7603:

A D/P thief is a guardians nightmare? My lvl 14 guardian ripped a full glass cannon D/P thieves to pieces the other night.

Alt heal bunker guardians that are played even moderately well have ZERO to fear from a thief unless they are caught on cool down. Even a full zerk thief isn’t going to crack 3k+ armor, shouts on rotation, retaliation, blocks, heals on every crit, boons out the wazoo, control, etc. A bunker guardian isn’t going to kill a thief either. I usually just bow to those guys and go on my merry way.

DPS Guardians are a serious handful. Their control, healing, aoe and targeted damage are problematic. They can be beat but it isn’t like cracking other non-bunker classes. Mistakes are costly against these builds and best approached with shadow steps… even still Judges Intervention with a knockdown can be a big surprise to an unwary thief.

PinCushion.7390:

I will say that 99% of players are complaining because the Thief profession needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (which won’t ever happen). Not because it’s OP, but because it’s only fun for the guy playing it.

The forum is a minor (but vocal) subset of the WvW population. Most experienced players avoid the forum tarpit like the plague. What is mostly left is a handful of forum warriors, people with a constant sense of outrage and players who cannot play the game for some reason rambling in. Of that handful, some gripe about how a solo build beat them solo. A lot of the complaints are tied these fantastical numbers that few thieves have ever seen outside of a perfect storm. Are thieves dangerous solo/skirmish, yes but no more so than any other well played class in their role.

Straegen.2938:

PinCushion.7390:

I will say that 99% of players are complaining because the Thief profession needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (which won’t ever happen). Not because it’s OP, but because it’s only fun for the guy playing it.

The forum is a minor (but vocal) subset of the WvW population. Most experienced players avoid the forum tarpit like the plague. What is mostly left is a handful of forum warriors, people with a constant sense of outrage and players who cannot play the game for some reason rambling in. Of that handful, some gripe about how a solo build beat them solo. A lot of the complaints are tied these fantastical numbers that few thieves have ever seen outside of a perfect storm. Are thieves dangerous solo/skirmish, yes but no more so than any other well played class in their role.

I’d be the “Can’t play the game for some reason but rambling in” variety. I’m not really outraged at Thieves, but I would like to know ANet’s intentions. My stance on the Thief class has changed very little over the last few months, since I made one to get a better idea of what their skills looked like.

I’m not outraged that they can be built to dominate in skirmishes, because almost any class can do that.

I’m not outraged that they routinely use (abuse?) stealth mechanics to troll groups of disorganized players, since Thief players can only play the hand that ANet has dealt them.

I’m not even outraged that they can put out an incredible amount of burst damage. Those same Thieves, while escaping death in a 1v1, generally die to something silly like getting hit by an unfortunate treb/cannon/AC barrage. Burst builds just don’t soak siege fire very well.

What I’m irritated by, not outraged but irritated, is that the structure of the Thief class promotes gameplay that isn’t a lot of fun for whoever is on the receiving end. Specifically, I’m talking about Stealth. Evade builds are kind of fun to tangle with, since you can try to mentally keep track of their cooldowns and use Weakness or CC to counter some of the dodging. You can’t do any of that against a Stealth build. I think the industry jargon for this is “Counterplay.”

This could be band-aid fixed pretty easily by just creating a counter to Stealth. ANet could pick any random condition and say “This counters Stealth.” Burning would be an obvious choice, since it’d be difficult to sneak around while on fire. That might not work from a balance standpoint, since Burning is pretty easy to put on people. But it could be anything, really. As long as it’s something!

What’s truly laughable about this thread is it’s written by a necro. The second most complained about class that is threatening to overtake thieves in most QQ possible. Wait till they actually do something to smoke field and then the hate will be aimed squarely at necros until they’re nerfed.

Seriously though, the thief isn’t the best at anything currently. As powerful as stealth is, Guardians, Mesmers, Elementalists, and Rangers each make equally powerful roamers. And most of those classes have viable roles outside of roaming too.

So Thieves aren’t anywhere near overpowered in the sole role they have in the current WvW meta, and we’re seriously getting another thread on top of the 5 current ones on the front page?

I love how every thief thread has defense force of thief players defending their dumb OP mechanics. Its just like the RTL, confusion, and retaliation defense forces. No arguments, just spouting how they have no trouble with it and you need to l2p.

JaNordy.6149:

Its just like the RTL, confusion, and retaliation defense forces.

I play a Thief (and only a Thief these days) and Confusion/Retaliation were my worst enemies. I don’t think either of those should have been nerfed. RTL shouldn’t have been nerfed as severely as it was either.

L2P

PinCushion.7390:

Renxian.6982:

PinCushion.7390:

If I’m solo, as in not running with a party, then I’m probably dead. But why would I be soloing with a Staff?

This right here makes you smarter than 99% of the thief whiners.

“I was running my zergling whatever build and soloing for no sensible reason and died to a roamer with a duelist build OP NERF!!!111” is like the most common thing I see from most of them.

I won’t paint with that broad a brush and say that 99% of players are complaining because they’re stupid.

I will say that 99% of players are complaining because the Thief profession needs to be rebuilt from the ground up (which won’t ever happen). Not because it’s OP, but because it’s only fun for the guy playing it.

I have fun in small fights, even running my zergling build where I will usually not win. Trying to guess when the other guy’s going to burn his long cooldowns, or trying to knock him out of a heal at the right moment is fun! Except when fighting a Thief. Most of my skills miss. I can’t see the guy for most of the fight. None of my Conditions stick for longer than a second or two. If I do a few things right and get him at a disadvantage he ports away and resets.

That’s not OP. It’s just not fun. I hate fighting Thieves, so I usually just don’t. I can troll just as well as they can. I run staff for a reason. It’s hard to have fun ganking people when you spend your time dodging out of the red circles, chilled/crippled/burning. I’ll never kill them, so I just irritate them until they go somewhere else while buffing/healing my party members. If they focus on me I waste a bunch of their time running away.

The class isn’t OP. It’s corrosive to everyone else’s experience because it’s infuriating to fight. This isn’t the fault of Thief players. This is the fault of ANet for making poor design decisions.

Thank you! Somebody else sees it. It needs a redesign from the ground up for sure but it’s approaching a year and I think we’re stuck with this abomination. It’s puzzling why any game designer would build being a griefer and kittenhole into a class. I’ve killed thieves, I just didn’t have fun doing it.

JaNordy.6149:

I love how every thief thread has defense force of thief players defending their dumb OP mechanics. Its just like the RTL, confusion, and retaliation defense forces. No arguments, just spouting how they have no trouble with it and you need to l2p.

Some of those were nerfed because when used in zergs, they were evil on a mass scale. Stealth (aside from veil/mass invis) is mostly useless outside of solo/skirmish.

RTL got whacked because of the build it was in. Swoop from the Ranger GS line is WAY better than RTL but doesn’t sting as much when it isn’t coupled with a lot of control. I would have left RTL alone personally.

PinCushion.7390:

I won’t paint with that broad a brush and say that 99% of players are complaining because they’re stupid.

Ah, but that’s the crux of it. No doubt, people are expected to believe that everyone is crazy. Everyone just singles out Thieves because only Thieves are privy to the vast knowledge necessary to play the game. See, when everyone creates an account for Guild Wars 2, they are given a manual detailing all the intricacies of every other class – except for Thief. That’s why this “99%” of players and Thief whiners can’t understand how to fight Thieves – they just don’t get it!

They don’t complain about anything else that might be OP! It’s just Thieves being (wrongly) accused because people can’t L2P! It is mere coincidence that these same, poor players, that don’t know how to play and can’t adapt, just happen to know how to fight the other classes.

That’s why there’s never been threads on other classes – that’s why nobody has ever whined about, say, D/D Eles being ridiculous, or whined about Mesmers, or whined that Necromancers are blowing everyone up after their buffs. People are clearly misinformed, and are all mistaken when they argue about Thieves. It is inconceivable that people would point out OP things in a game and be right about it, very much unlike what happened with D/D Eles. Nobody singled that out, and, if they had, they would have been wrong, and just needed to L2P. No adjustments would have been needed.

No doubt the sane reader is aware that this is the real truth of the matter. I am grateful that I am one of the few with the true understanding.

Xirin.8593:

JaNordy.6149:

Its just like the RTL, confusion, and retaliation defense forces.

I play a Thief (and only a Thief these days) and Confusion/Retaliation were my worst enemies. I don’t think either of those should have been nerfed. RTL shouldn’t have been nerfed as severely as it was either.

L2P

“No arguments, just spouting how they have no trouble with it and you need to l2p.”

Never change defense force, never change.

Arenanet already said Thief will always have the best burst in the game. So far they plan to increase Thiefs base damage so we can build more defensively, which is a great idea imo.

JaNordy.6149:

Xirin.8593:

JaNordy.6149:

Its just like the RTL, confusion, and retaliation defense forces.

I play a Thief (and only a Thief these days) and Confusion/Retaliation were my worst enemies. I don’t think either of those should have been nerfed. RTL shouldn’t have been nerfed as severely as it was either.

L2P

“No arguments, just spouting how they have no trouble with it and you need to l2p.”

Never change defense force, never change.

Calling for nerfs is easier than adapting.

Dommmmmmmmmm.6984:

Arenanet already said Thief will always have the best burst in the game. So far they plan to increase Thiefs base damage so we can build more defensively, which is a great idea imo.

I wish they would add in more group support options as well. That’s another thing the thief is seriously lacking.

Aberrant.6749:

Burnfall.9573:

Straegen

I play a ranger class, what more Truth do u need?

Isn’t that Rational enough?

What’s more to discuss?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ksn16H0OE

Did a P/D thief just kill a ranger? OMG P/D OP NEEDS A NERF NERF NERF.

Worst ranger ever. All they had to do was jump in the water and type GG.