Guild Wars 2

Korsbaek.9803:

ok lets remove the aoe cap i dare you
the first thing i would do is garthere a few guardians and eles to stack retaliation and might on each other and without aoe limit that would be very fast to gain 25 stacks of might, after that we will run around without attacking anyone and just let them use there super strong aoe on us and let us get all the loot after they die in seconeds to the retaliation damage and ofc we will use a few 50-60 people that just runs with us also to max the damage but we will still not attack you we will let you kill yourself.
with 371 damage from each player you hit(lets say 55) 20405 damage per aoe damage you give, come agien and say that aoe limit helps zergs more then it counters zergs.

a big zerg is strong because of lag and/or numbers and/or skill/cordination. a smaller groupe but more cordinated will most likely will into a difference between the zergs are to big.

so what you’re saying is that you need to gather 50-60 people for being effective in WvW, well but it is the same like now or am I wrong?
the fact is that now 50-60 people get an advantage from the AoE cap and they can stack on each other easily, My 5 men team instead will get a much higher benefit from AoE and downed state removed.
It’s a fact of point of view, if we want to see a zerg vs zerg game, well no changes are needed, because zerg vs zerg is all we have now.

Upon reading this, I think following options would allow better coordination and make less zerging:
- Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable
- Add extra squad interfaces, and tools:

• The commander has an option to see the people in his squad in a new “Squad” interface"
• The Squad interface shows the number of supplies of each of the people in squad, shows the guild tag and the profession of the player, aswell as the name.
• Squad members can also open this squad interface to see the other guys in it. Commanders have the additional option to see other squads than theirs on the map.
• People in squad now have yellow names instead of green ones (such as gold names for guilds).

- Commanders can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not a member of their guild. This allows for covert guild operations.
- Commander can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not already in the squad.
- To join a squad, your “joining” must be accepted by the commander.

Reducing zergs:
- Less blobs, because squads only amount to 20 people.
- Less people running to the command tag (cause it can be hidden)

IMO, Zergs are effective because of the size of the maps and the map design. Maps are too small for zerging to not be effective. IMO, having several small groups of anywhere from 10-25 running around the map would be a perfect amount to both reduce skill lag and increase the individual skill required in fights, unfortunately, this does not occur. The main reason being that with such a small map, and so few objectives to go after, a zerg can easily defend a map from smaller groups without splitting up. For example, if I were to go on to SoR bordlerands and attack the Northeast and Northwest tower simultanesously with 2 groups of 20, SoR could run their 40-50 man zerg to one tower, wipe that group, then to the other tower and hit the other group without breaking a sweat.

The lack of complexity in map design is an issue too. As a solo or small group player, there is really only one, maybe two ways to get from point A to Point B. If the zerg decides to move in the vicinity of the same objectives, there is really no way to skirt and avoid them no matter how properly we scout.

As for the zerg vs. small group debate, i’m sort of in the middle ground. I support zerging in a sense because 10 players should really not be able to beat 40 without an incredibly skill disparity. On the other hand, the strength of the small group should be to move quickly around the map, undetected, hitting objectives when the zerg has their back turned. With the current map design, there is really no way for even the most experienced and efficient small groups to use the map to their advantage. Ultimately the best games can be easily learned, but have a high skill cap. I feel as if WvW accomplishes the latter but has a hard time rewarding actual skilled play.

RyuDragnier.9476:

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Pinko.2076:

downed state, aoe cap

Absolutely this. Taking away the downed state in WvW would change the game dramatically… for the better IMO.

Until you find that you’re getting pwned by a group of less people.

Its precisely one of the reasons why I wish they would take it out. Would give the smaller groups a better chance at overcoming the odds.

Kolly.9872:

Korsbaek.9803:

ok lets remove the aoe cap i dare you
the first thing i would do is garthere a few guardians and eles to stack retaliation and might on each other and without aoe limit that would be very fast to gain 25 stacks of might, after that we will run around without attacking anyone and just let them use there super strong aoe on us and let us get all the loot after they die in seconeds to the retaliation damage and ofc we will use a few 50-60 people that just runs with us also to max the damage but we will still not attack you we will let you kill yourself.
with 371 damage from each player you hit(lets say 55) 20405 damage per aoe damage you give, come agien and say that aoe limit helps zergs more then it counters zergs.

a big zerg is strong because of lag and/or numbers and/or skill/cordination. a smaller groupe but more cordinated will most likely will into a difference between the zergs are to big.

so what you’re saying is that you need to gather 50-60 people for being effective in WvW, well but it is the same like now or am I wrong?
the fact is that now 50-60 people get an advantage from the AoE cap and they can stack on each other easily, My 5 men team instead will get a much higher benefit from AoE and downed state removed.
It’s a fact of point of view, if we want to see a zerg vs zerg game, well no changes are needed, because zerg vs zerg is all we have now.

no im saying that you are makeing a zerg invinsable if you give it no aoe cap;)
and to your orrintation im normaly a small groupe roamer, but if i get to be invinsable useing blast finishers, light field and fire field heck then i see no reasen to run in a small groupe as a retaliation stacking groupe that also stacks might will be invinsable without ever attacking anyone simply because you can not touch them with any aoe at all

I’ve witnessed some impressive tactics by commanders on all sides during some of these massive “zerg” battles. Depending on the commander leading the massive army, I’ve seen some clever things lately.

To say that is is no skill involved other than who brings more to the fight is wrong IMO. If that were true then two evenly matched Zergs going toe to toe would always end in a stalemate. This has not been what I’ve seen. Usually one side will prevail usually due to superior tactics.

Harbinger.8637:

More people is always effective. Take WW2 for example. Germans where better trained and equipped then the Russians. Russians won because they kept throwing more people at the problem.(Yes, I know that’s not the only reason they won, but it was a big help.)

And how many people did it take for the U.S.A to drop a nuke on Hiroshima? Numbers don’t always win.

Sirendor.1394:

Upon reading this, I think following options would allow better coordination and make less zerging:
- Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable
- Add extra squad interfaces, and tools:

• The commander has an option to see the people in his squad in a new “Squad” interface"
• The Squad interface shows the number of supplies of each of the people in squad, shows the guild tag and the profession of the player, aswell as the name.
• Squad members can also open this squad interface to see the other guys in it. Commanders have the additional option to see other squads than theirs on the map.
• People in squad now have yellow names instead of green ones (such as gold names for guilds).

- Commanders can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not a member of their guild. This allows for covert guild operations.
- Commander can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not already in the squad.
- To join a squad, your “joining” must be accepted by the commander.

Reducing zergs:
- Less blobs, because squads only amount to 20 people.
- Less people running to the command tag (cause it can be hidden)

I don’t often and I would probably say a large part of the zerg doesn’t tag into the commanders squad. You also don’t really need a tag to follow the group unless they are specifically trying to avoid running with non-guild so I wouldn’t bother anyway and find the other commander or scout.

I like to see where the other commanders are when I’m scouting or running from respawning I can let the other group about a potential incomming.

Icon is pretty much a rally flag.

snowaugar.1823:

Sirendor.1394:

snowaugar.1823:

Sirendor.1394:

snowaugar.1823:

Organized group > any zerg

Snow, that’s the theory, but it doesn’t work like that at all.

L2p I’ve done it plenty with my guild I even wiped 30 with 8 using 2 ward guards 2 staff ele a grenade engi 2 ballista and an ac pre ac buff choke points ftw

Well if you use siege. T-T Siege is for cowards as much as zergs.

Umm lol seige is wonderful when your outmanned like I said l2p ^^ I mean the most I can say about helping with the number problems is make outmanned buff better

And how is it l2p when you get skill lock?

Excalibur.9748:

a small group should NOT be more effective than a zerg.

^^^ This.

No matter what word you use for it, a “Small Group” of people working as one unit shouldn’t and will never be as effective as a “Zerg” of people working as one unit.

If you want to use smaller groups, by all means do so. 4-5 people is all that is needed to harass enemy supply camps and maybe take a paper tower, drawing attention away from the meat of the team as they do their work. But if you are seriously suggesting that 4-5 people should be able to take over a fully upgraded tower against 20+ defenders, you are smoking some serious stuff I want a hit of.

Want to kill zergs? Easy. Here is the solution:

1. AC damage is based on the number of people that it hits. In other words, if I am standing by myself in the middle of the red circle, it shouldn’t hurt me much at all. If I am with 30 other people in the circle, it should have huge damage.

Done. Zerg killer.

Skill lag and all that of course. But as far as changing actual game mechanics I would agree with the downed state in wvw.
Absent removing downed state completely:
Remove or tweek the rally feature. I’ve seen half a Zerg res off a player that dc’s.
– or 20+ removes rally, 40+ skips downed state

This wouldn’t penalize small groups and could balance the fights if skill is in their side. We do not need an aoe cap removal or buff ex: arrow carts. Look at the unbalanced those have caused.

little ceasar.9254:

Skill lag and all that of course. But as far as changing actual game mechanics I would agree with the downed state in wvw.
Absent removing downed state completely:
Remove or tweek the rally feature. I’ve seen half a Zerg res off a player that dc’s.
– or 20+ removes rally, 40+ skips downed state

This wouldn’t penalize small groups and could balance the fights if skill is in their side. We do not need an aoe cap removal or buff ex: arrow carts. Look at the unbalanced those have caused.

Or just get rid of Rally/Downed state for everyone EXCEPT servers that are Outmanned.

Really, they are the only one’s who need it other than baddies who are looking to mist-form back into their tower.

Sovta.4719:

snowaugar.1823:

Sirendor.1394:

snowaugar.1823:

Sirendor.1394:

snowaugar.1823:

Organized group > any zerg

Snow, that’s the theory, but it doesn’t work like that at all.

L2p I’ve done it plenty with my guild I even wiped 30 with 8 using 2 ward guards 2 staff ele a grenade engi 2 ballista and an ac pre ac buff choke points ftw

Well if you use siege. T-T Siege is for cowards as much as zergs.

Umm lol seige is wonderful when your outmanned like I said l2p ^^ I mean the most I can say about helping with the number problems is make outmanned buff better

And how is it l2p when you get skill lock?

L2 not bandwagon never have skill lag

McFribble.2349:

little ceasar.9254:

Skill lag and all that of course. But as far as changing actual game mechanics I would agree with the downed state in wvw.
Absent removing downed state completely:
Remove or tweek the rally feature. I’ve seen half a Zerg res off a player that dc’s.
– or 20+ removes rally, 40+ skips downed state

This wouldn’t penalize small groups and could balance the fights if skill is in their side. We do not need an aoe cap removal or buff ex: arrow carts. Look at the unbalanced those have caused.

Or just get rid of Rally/Downed state for everyone EXCEPT servers that are Outmanned.

Really, they are the only one’s who need it other than baddies who are looking to mist-form back into their tower.

Problem is that’s not always the case in upper tiers. I regularly witness the outmanned side running in large zergs, it may be every person on that map is in that Zerg. So in some situations that would work, but a skilled group can easily take out a group twice its size if its just an unorganized Zerg.

Sirendor.1394:

Upon reading this, I think following options would allow better coordination and make less zerging:
- Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable
- Add extra squad interfaces, and tools:

• The commander has an option to see the people in his squad in a new “Squad” interface"
• The Squad interface shows the number of supplies of each of the people in squad, shows the guild tag and the profession of the player, aswell as the name.
• Squad members can also open this squad interface to see the other guys in it. Commanders have the additional option to see other squads than theirs on the map.
• People in squad now have yellow names instead of green ones (such as gold names for guilds).

- Commanders can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not a member of their guild. This allows for covert guild operations.
- Commander can decide to hide their command tag from everyone who is not already in the squad.
- To join a squad, your “joining” must be accepted by the commander.

Reducing zergs:
- Less blobs, because squads only amount to 20 people.
- Less people running to the command tag (cause it can be hidden)

I agree with everything there except for:

" Make a cap on the number of players who can join a squad. 20 seems reasonable."

There should be no cap on a squad size, but just allow them to be “locked” or “Private”. If a commander wants it public, as many people can join. If a commander “locks” a squad he can control the amount of people that works for whatever he/she have planned. It can be guild only, or under 25 players to avoid crossed swords… how ever they want to set it up.

little ceasar.9254:

Remove or tweek the rally feature. I’ve seen half a Zerg res off a player that dc’s.

Maybe tweak rally so that you need to have done at least 33% of the total dmg on the target.