Guild Wars 2

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

Blinds? and also blinds?

Sorry, being direct here, the problem is you.

As a thief, either you don’t play it very well or you just are not rightly build for this sort of gameplay. I play thief x ranger, and the names bow skill that hits for over 20k is easily avoidable, even more for a thief with at least 5 dodge mechanics and 3 break-stun skills.

I don’t see a problem here.

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

and again. i play a D/D thief. The only Blind i have is blind on stealth and blinding powder. 2 blinds. doesnt help much when ranger can attack a kitten ton of times in a couple seconds.

Well Thief has a lot more CC and poisonz, more stealth, stuns, evades for less range power and fail bones~ just gotta avoid dat insanely OP rapid fire and keep them poisoned, force them into melee range and keep behind them where they can’t use bow anymore. (Bow skills will fail and go on CD if you’re behind them)

Gonna love the poison abuse we’ll get to dish out in HoT. ;o

zzBlurryzz.7492:

and again. i play a D/D thief. The only Blind i have is blind on stealth and blinding powder. 2 blinds. doesnt help much when ranger can attack a kitten ton of times in a couple seconds.

Maybe you should try D/P then. I’ve been using it and it works more then fine against pewpew Rangers.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

there is the reason why you die, d/d is like 2013 build, play s/d or d/p and you wont die to rangers unless they have clearly more skill then you , on the same skill lvl you should always win

I don’t use venoms, I don’t use condi, I don’t use power builds, I don’t have any problems, I don’t want d/d thieves changed… well apart from unnerfing their CnD attack in spvp.

rangers

D/D definetely need some buffs at the right spots.

Deadly Blossom needs finally a buff into the right direction of

• increasing the dodge animation time from a ridiculous 1/4s to a full second, so that you evade for its complete animation time from the moment on you start whirlign to the moment when you land back on your feet

• Dodging with this skill should count like using a dodge roll, means every successful dogne with it should trigger also al the positive trait effects that come from dodgign attacks. like Swiftness or Might and Endurange Regen

• For a Dual Skill, its damage is way too weak therefore that a huge portion of its damage can be instantly removed via condition removal.
  Deathly Blossom needs to receive a “Condition Cascade” effect, which changes its conditions it deals to foes, based on which conditions they suffer on already..

Means, 1 DB = 3 Stacks of Bleeding.
If you do now another DB and your starget still bleeds, then you add 3 Stacks of Torment.
You do another DB while your foe suffers still on Torment, add 3 stacks of Confusions…
This way you can perform with sonme quick and consecutively performend multiple DB’s alot more condition pressure, while also coverign up your damaging conditions without that a big part from the condition damage can be way too quickly removed.

Heartseeker needs a QoL improvement of adding a line of sight arrow to it like Whirlwind Attack, so that you can perform with HS better and more precisive direction turns in a row like a cheetah, that hunts an agile often directino changing rabbit.

Currently D/D feels not right like a Power Set, but also not really like a Condition Set, it fails at beign a good and appropiate powerful Hybrid Set, because it lacks in efficiency in both areas and just shines only mainy with high bursts when attacking from stealth with backstab and dealiogn a critical hit at that moment with high ferocity also for a good mix of high power, crit rate and crit damage bonus (Berserker meta) that you need to land in a short time window, before stealth is over.

I hope ANet will adress some of these problems, once they beginn to make on the main classes some appropiate fitting game balance changes so the old weapon skills, traits and utility skills ect. based on the new elite specs that they need to get balanced on, so that the new elite specs don’t totalyl outshine all of the old main classes.

blinds, reflects, evasion and crazy spike damage when done right. nope thieves are fine. Serious here. learn the counter to the new metas.

When I clicked on this thread, I was kinda expecting something like:
“Why play thief on pick team when you can pick people off at range with a ranger?”
“As a thief, I’m getting constantly screwed by Sic ’Em.”
“I play condi troll thief but, man, condi rangers are immortal.”
Some complaint that, while maybe not well-founded, one could actually discuss back-and-forth, you know?

Instead, I see…
“I’m playing the glassiest one-shot build in the world and I don’t know what to do when I can’t quite kill my target and they one-shot me right back.”

:/

Rangers don’t have as much burst power. They really don’t. I know because both rangers and thieves constantly try to gank me, and the thieves demand much, much better reaction time on my part. (The frustration with rangers is more that their stupid rotation is really good at draining all your endurance quickly.)

So, I dunno, dodge a bit more? Pack a stun break? Do some silly Whirlwind Attack thing and laugh? If you’ve got your target at 20% hp after the first burst, basically the only thing that’s saving him is that you’re getting knocked down (and maybe Signet of Stone; you should have plenty of tools to wait it out, though).

Every build/profession has a counter. Rangers are the counter to most Thief builds. Suck it up, bro. This is how I feel when I fight a lockdown Mesmer or Medi-Guard on my Necromancer. Not much you can do other than give it 110% because the fight won’t accept any less than your absolute best.

Also, if you’re D/D, learn to stealth off their pet, bait out Signet Of Stone and save using Basilisk Venom for when they’re below 40% health instead of using it as an opener.

Use dagger storm against rapid fire. Most rangers are dumb and kill themselves.
Smoke screen also stops all longbow damage but barrage. Also makes it hard to fight into a blinding field.

daedalus.9814:

Use dagger storm against rapid fire. Most rangers are dumb and kill themselves.
Smoke screen also stops all longbow damage but barrage. Also makes it hard to fight into a blinding field.

Alternatively, steal from one of the numerous GS warriors running away from fights anywhere on your borderland (I’m always like “yo, why u chose a warrior if you gonna run like a lil girl?”), and use it to reflect the RF.

Sorel.4870:

daedalus.9814:

Use dagger storm against rapid fire. Most rangers are dumb and kill themselves.
Smoke screen also stops all longbow damage but barrage. Also makes it hard to fight into a blinding field.

Alternatively, steal from one of the numerous GS warriors running away from fights anywhere on your borderland (I’m always like “yo, why u chose a warrior if you gonna run like a lil girl?”), and use it to reflect the RF.

Or just steal from the ranger to interrupt them

Eponet.4829:

Sorel.4870:

daedalus.9814:

Use dagger storm against rapid fire. Most rangers are dumb and kill themselves.
Smoke screen also stops all longbow damage but barrage. Also makes it hard to fight into a blinding field.

Alternatively, steal from one of the numerous GS warriors running away from fights anywhere on your borderland (I’m always like “yo, why u chose a warrior if you gonna run like a lil girl?”), and use it to reflect the RF.

Or just steal from the ranger to interrupt them

or steal the pet to reduce the ranges CC and damage…… oh wait, noone wants the pet

Here’s your TL;DR answer:

Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Why? So you’ll l2p instead of just treating your highly-spammable stealth like it’s Invulnerability.

I have main’d a ranger in wvw since this game launched, so I know this class very well. However I do roll a thief in wvw (condi actually) quite often, and while in my thief, I have never lost to an encounter with a ranger.

So I think you are just not playing the class right. I suggest you have a spell steal which grants stealth prep’d before you approach and engage your target. Use it to close the gap. Then use your blinds, think about the timing and be patient. Don’t burn and rush through your skills. You can also use dagger storm to block rangers arrows. If you don’t manage to improve, I suggest you change builds to like a condi thief. Even a noob condi thief should never die to a ranger. You can also try a d/p build for maximum stealth but honestly I don’t respect d/p thiefs in wvw, because I think it is just a pure kitten way to play that entails absolutely no risk at all.

Play sword+dagger and spam evades or perplexity pistol dagger. Problem solved.

l o l w u t.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

I will agree to this change if you agree to the following change:

Get rid of all damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

can’t press 3 buttons to kill someone in 1 second? must be imbalanced, op obviously has ninja skillz and should never lose a 1v1

Johje Holan.4607:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

I will agree to this change if you agree to the following change:

Get rid of all damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

There are no damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

Deal.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Aerathnor.8305:

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

::mashes +1 button::
::is a mesmer, so probably has ulterior motives::

ASP.8093:

Aerathnor.8305:

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

::mashes +1 button::
::is a mesmer, so probably has ulterior motives::

Forgot to add in that mesmers can’t iZerker me from stealth anymore without getting revealed :p

Aerathnor.8305:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Backstab would be far too hard to land with your changes; it would need to be buffed with something to compensate.

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Backstab would be far too hard to land with your changes; it would need to be buffed with something to compensate.

I’d be fine with it being unblockable from behind, block should not be an immunity. Evade would still cause the reveal as it would reward perfect timing on the evaders part.

Aerathnor.8305:

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Backstab would be far too hard to land with your changes; it would need to be buffed with something to compensate.

I’d be fine with it being unblockable from behind, block should not be an immunity. Evade would still cause the reveal as it would reward perfect timing on the evaders part.

It’s not really perfect timing so much as it is blind luck at guessing when in a 4 second timespan the thief decides to backstab.

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Backstab would be far too hard to land with your changes; it would need to be buffed with something to compensate.

I’d be fine with it being unblockable from behind, block should not be an immunity. Evade would still cause the reveal as it would reward perfect timing on the evaders part.

It’s not really perfect timing so much as it is blind luck at guessing when in a 4 second timespan the thief decides to backstab.

Not necessarily, there certainly is a modicum of luck involved, but judging by the distance the thief went into stealth you can fairly reliably know how long it will take to reach you compared to time on their stealth and dodge fairly accurately.

If they extend their stealth you get to see the smoke ring and can start timing again and gage distance by the ring. Of course I’m talking about a D/P setup and the thief can get around that by using an alternate stealth source.

So there is some skilled timing and some luck involved in a dodge, not so much in pushing your block button without having to face the direction of the attack.

Aerathnor.8305:

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

Archon.6481:

Aerathnor.8305:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

You can play a ranger? I’m talking in WvW. Rangers currently are VERY tanky, long range, safe thieves. There is no risk in playing them. They have just as much burst and can easily beat a power build thief in second.

I find myself roaming on my D/D powerbuild thief and often coming across a ranger. Basilisk venom, backstab and nuke down to 20% health or so, only to be pushed away by their longbow and rapid fired to death. 20k damage from one skill that cant miss?

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

Please do something, make thieves more useful then sharing venoms.

We’ll trade, when I block/evade your attack from stealth you get revealed and I lose my ability to RF you to death in stealth.

Both are cheesy mechanics that basically ruin counterplay.

Backstab would be far too hard to land with your changes; it would need to be buffed with something to compensate.

I’d be fine with it being unblockable from behind, block should not be an immunity. Evade would still cause the reveal as it would reward perfect timing on the evaders part.

It’s not really perfect timing so much as it is blind luck at guessing when in a 4 second timespan the thief decides to backstab.

Not necessarily, there certainly is a modicum of luck involved, but judging by the distance the thief went into stealth you can fairly reliably know how long it will take to reach you compared to time on their stealth and dodge fairly accurately.

If they extend their stealth you get to see the smoke ring and can start timing again and gage distance by the ring. Of course I’m talking about a D/P setup and the thief can get around that by using an alternate stealth source.

So there is some skilled timing and some luck involved in a dodge, not so much in pushing your block button without having to face the direction of the attack.

Fighting condi mesmers is boring. They basically have this revealed on evade thing because when they dodge they leave a clone. So if you backstabbing while they dodge then you backstab the clone.

These duels take far too long because it’s just a waiting game for dodges. Often times, I backstab hem and they dodge a fifth of a second after it lands. While here certainly is some skill involved in this it’s mostly just luck. I think your suggestion is good in theory, but in reality it’s just far too based upon luck.

If you take away your opponent’s ability to actually SEE you do anything, then, yeah, they’re going to have to “guess” and use a bit of “blind luck” to avoid your attacks. How else do you expect this to work, really?

This exact situation is what you signed up for when you picked thief.

ASP.8093:

If you take away your opponent’s ability to actually SEE you do anything, then, yeah, they’re going to have to “guess” and use a bit of “blind luck” to avoid your attacks. How else do you expect this to work, really?

This exact situation is what you signed up for when you picked thief.

So your solution to counter stealth is blind luck?

Got it.

Archon.6481:

So your solution to counter stealth is blind luck?

Got it.

Hi. You’re complaining that it’s “blind luck” when a player dodges an attack they literally can’t see.

What kind of reply do you expect, besides “Duh?” and “Deal with it?”

Archon.6481:

Johje Holan.4607:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

I will agree to this change if you agree to the following change:

Get rid of all damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

There are no damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

Deal.

Skills: Backstab, Sneak Attack, Tactical Strike, Surprise Shot

Traits: Hidden Killer, Hidden Assassin

ASP.8093:

Archon.6481:

So your solution to counter stealth is blind luck?

Got it.

Hi. You’re complaining that it’s “blind luck” when a player dodges an attack they literally can’t see.

What kind of reply do you expect, besides “Duh?” and “Deal with it?”

Your idea of fixing something that you think is broken with blind luck is hardly fair or balanced.

How about we remove all armor ratings from thief and give him a 90% chance to evade damage?
How about we give eviscerate a random chance to miss?
How about we give kill shot a random chance to misfire?
How about we give grenades a random chance to blow up in your hand?
How about we give stealth a random chance to cause you to trip, revealing yourself?

All of these are equally bad ideas because they are entirely based on RNG. RNG should be used as little as possible in balance. The current implementation of dodging vs a stealthed thief is fine. I suggest you come up with a realistic idea for balancing stealth, because blind luck is not good for anyone.

Johje Holan.4607:

Archon.6481:

Johje Holan.4607:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

My proposed change is to actually make a change to thieves. Make it so when you stealth, targeted skills on you STOP hitting. Currently if they cast their rapid fire on you and you stealth, every shot of it will still hit you. WHY?!

I will agree to this change if you agree to the following change:

Get rid of all damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

There are no damage bonuses for attacking from stealth.

Deal.

Skills: Backstab, Sneak Attack, Tactical Strike, Surprise Shot

Traits: Hidden Killer, Hidden Assassin

Stealth skills are an integral part of thief. That’s like removing ranger pets.
Hidden killer increases crit chance. You can crit in stealth without the trait.
Hidden assassins gives might. You can recieve might outside of stealth.

I don’t think you understand what “damage bonus” means

Archon.6481:

Your idea of fixing something that you think is broken with blind luck is hardly fair or balanced.

My idea? I just made a joke about subscribing to that other guy’s newsletter.

The idea that an opponent consciously deciding that now is a good time to dodge is “RNG” is silly. Do you also complain about RNG when someone guesses right and downs you with an AoE blast?

~

Also, let’s not forget the true purpose of this thread: to laugh at thieves who get owned by a single point-blank Rapid Fire because all they know how to do is combo and stealth. This is just a pointless distraction.

ASP.8093:

Archon.6481:

Your idea of fixing something that you think is broken with blind luck is hardly fair or balanced.

My idea? I just made a joke about subscribing to that other guy’s newsletter.

The idea that an opponent consciously deciding that now is a good time to dodge is “RNG” is silly. Do you also complain about RNG when someone guesses right and downs you with an AoE blast?

~

Also, let’s not forget the true purpose of this thread: to laugh at thieves who get owned by a single point-blank Rapid Fire because all they know how to do is combo and stealth. This is just a pointless distraction.

Let’s say I am in shadow refuge and someone decides to AoE it. That is essentially luck on whether or not they down me. Not entirely, but it plays a large role. I could easily have dodged at the exact moment of their AoE, but they have no way of knowing that.

Consciously making the decision to dodge against a thief in stealth is RNG. Against something like eviserate you have a clear indicator that now is a good time to dodge. Against kill shot you have a clear is indicator that now is a good time to dodge. When dodging vs a stealth thief there is no clear indicator of when a good time to dodge is. I have fought people who double dodged while I was in stealth. And you know what? I simply cloak and dagger’d him after stealth ended and backstabbed him. He had no indicator that I was going to backstab him (I didn’t) and went off of blind luck that I might backstab now, and I didn’t. This is pure luck and blind intuition. It’s dishonest to call this skillful.

What’s your alternative? Stand there and take it?

Again: the whole point of stealth, the big advantage of it, is to force your opponent to just guess.

You’re annoyed that it’s possible to guess right but you think it’s “skillful” or whatever when you get to freely punish them for guessing wrong? Or…?

ASP.8093:

What’s your alternative? Stand there and take it?

Again: the whole point of stealth, the big advantage of it, is to force your opponent to just guess.

You’re annoyed that it’s possible to guess right but you think it’s “skillful” or whatever when you get to freely punish them for guessing wrong? Or…?

I’m not annoyed that it’s possible to guess right. I’m annoyed that you think guessing right is a valid way to balance something.

Archon.6481:

ASP.8093:

What’s your alternative? Stand there and take it?

Again: the whole point of stealth, the big advantage of it, is to force your opponent to just guess.

You’re annoyed that it’s possible to guess right but you think it’s “skillful” or whatever when you get to freely punish them for guessing wrong? Or…?

I’m not annoyed that it’s possible to guess right. I’m annoyed that you think guessing right is a valid way to balance something.

We’ll other than timing the stealth and dodging when you think it will happen, the only counterplay that exists is to GTFO of the area with mobility skills.

Rewarding a dodge/block be revealing the thief is better than gutting stealth, unless you think there should be a tell when you’re about to backstab or that stealth should not be stackable.

I don’t want to gut thieves at all, just want to implement something that largely keeps the current mechanics in place while letting people counter it through a mixture of skill and luck.

Anyways, their not likely to change it in any meaningful way so we just have to accept that channeled abilities track through stealth and that blocking/dodging won’t reveal stealthed opponents.

Aerathnor.8305:

Archon.6481:

ASP.8093:

What’s your alternative? Stand there and take it?

Again: the whole point of stealth, the big advantage of it, is to force your opponent to just guess.

You’re annoyed that it’s possible to guess right but you think it’s “skillful” or whatever when you get to freely punish them for guessing wrong? Or…?

I’m not annoyed that it’s possible to guess right. I’m annoyed that you think guessing right is a valid way to balance something.

We’ll other than timing the stealth and dodging when you think it will happen, the only counterplay that exists is to GTFO of the area with mobility skills.

Rewarding a dodge/block be revealing the thief is better than gutting stealth, unless you think there should be a tell when you’re about to backstab or that stealth should not be stackable.

I don’t want to gut thieves at all, just want to implement something that largely keeps the current mechanics in place while letting people counter it through a mixture of skill and luck.

Anyways, their not likely to change it in any meaningful way so we just have to accept that channeled abilities track through stealth and that blocking/dodging won’t reveal stealthed opponents.

This still doesn’t change that this suggestion is largely based on luck.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

zzBlurryzz.7492:

and again. i play a D/D thief. The only Blind i have is blind on stealth and blinding powder. 2 blinds. doesnt help much when ranger can attack a kitten ton of times in a couple seconds.

This is called counter-play. Ranger are easier to deal with blind and stealth “ONLY WHEN RF IS READY”. They also got penalized greatly by retaliation because of the multi-hit feature.

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Count CD of other opponent’s crucial skills like RF?
When RF is not ready, you can safely spike them. If you’re in melee range, you can cancel RF by roll through ranger/teleport to the back of ranger, and so on.
And yes, you should blow your initiative when you see RF, either to interrupt, dodge, and so on.

If all fails you, then go play that noobest build ever existed: Dire perplexity condition thief.