Guild Wars 2

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Count CD of other opponent’s crucial skills like RF?
When RF is not ready, you can safely spike them. If you’re in melee range, you can cancel RF by roll through ranger/teleport to the back of ranger, and so on.
And yes, you should blow your initiative when you see RF, either to interrupt, dodge, and so on.

If all fails you, then go play that noobest build ever existed: Dire perplexity condition thief.

….none of this stuff is relevant because it ignores that rapid fire shouldn’t be allowed to follow someone in stealth.

Why shouldn’t a skill that is being channeled before the thief goes into stealth not hit? It is pretty fair considering the amount of stealth available. Stealth shouldn’t be considered as the “safety button”.

I’d accept the removal of channeled skills hit on stealth if and only the skill is actually fixed to behave as a stealth and not invisibility. That means, if you get hit, gets revealed; if you miss your attack for some reason, also gets revealed.

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Count CD of other opponent’s crucial skills like RF?
When RF is not ready, you can safely spike them. If you’re in melee range, you can cancel RF by roll through ranger/teleport to the back of ranger, and so on.
And yes, you should blow your initiative when you see RF, either to interrupt, dodge, and so on.

If all fails you, then go play that noobest build ever existed: Dire perplexity condition thief.

….none of this stuff is relevant because it ignores that rapid fire shouldn’t be allowed to follow someone in stealth.

According to whom?

Most games have at least some kind of caveat around “stealthing”. Be it moving slower, needing to stealth outside the attention of an enemy, things like being on fire or covered in jarate showing where you are etc. There’s always something to balance out the fact that you are now kittening invisible.

About the only downside to stealth in this game is it’s not “activate god mode” against channeled skills and apparently even that’s not enough.

double dodge the rapid fire like any other class.

Substance E.4852:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Count CD of other opponent’s crucial skills like RF?
When RF is not ready, you can safely spike them. If you’re in melee range, you can cancel RF by roll through ranger/teleport to the back of ranger, and so on.
And yes, you should blow your initiative when you see RF, either to interrupt, dodge, and so on.

If all fails you, then go play that noobest build ever existed: Dire perplexity condition thief.

….none of this stuff is relevant because it ignores that rapid fire shouldn’t be allowed to follow someone in stealth.

According to whom?

Most games have at least some kind of caveat around “stealthing”. Be it moving slower, needing to stealth outside the attention of an enemy, things like being on fire or covered in jarate showing where you are etc. There’s always something to balance out the fact that you are now kittening invisible.

About the only downside to stealth in this game is it’s not “activate god mode” against channeled skills and apparently even that’s not enough.

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

Why do people belive that because thieves go in stealth they should move slower, go on revealed when hit or even lose health/stamina like in some games I have seen (what?).

Do stealth fighters or bomber have any of theM symptoms when they go in stealth?

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Why do people belive that because thieves go in stealth they should move slower, go on revealed when hit or even lose health/stamina like in some games I have seen (what?).

Do stealth fighters or bomber have any of theM symptoms when they go in stealth?

Stealth vehicles such as the S-117 Nighthawk, F22 Raptor and B2 Stealth Bomber, in real life become visible to radar when they prepare for attack. Not fully visible, but you can catch them on radar.
Their radar deflecting/absorbing coating does not cover the internals of the plane. Once the doors to their armory opens, they become visible because their radar profile changes just enough to be picked up.

To explain it a bit better with a crude analogy.
Imagine yourself trying to stab someone, but you have a special cardboard box covering you. Aslong as you sneak around while inside the box, you are undetectable. However as soon as you stick your hand out to stab someone, you are no longer a special cardboard box, you are a arm. Arms are not stealthed nor special. Hence you get busted.

You play thief so you can hide inside the tower/keep/castle, and solo it when everyone leaves. I do it all the time with dagger/dagger/shortbow. I’m hoping the loss of might on stealth and might on dodge doesn’t hurt us too badly in this regard.

Unless people drop 2-3 stealth traps…. grrrrrr… stealth traps.

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

If you want to bring “logic” into this the how can a warrior block things from behind when the shield is facing forward, how can engies throw gronades behind them while running forward, how can a mesmers puney little scepter block a massive gs or hammer?

It’s a game dude, nothing is perfect. All class’s have pros and cons.

Lost to a ranger? Ragequit!

Honestly, standard rangers are not hard to kill.

Unless you fought a good one, in which case you were outplayed.

Archon.6481:

Substance E.4852:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

zzBlurryzz.7492:

The problem is you can still be hit by targeted skills after stealth,

The problem is on you. Ranger reacts faster than you and cast their RF BEFORE you enter stealth, deal with it. If you go to stealth sooner, he’ll lose target and couldn’t hit you.

The real problem is too many bad thieves rely too much on stealth as their “oh-kitten” bottom, and think going into stealth = invincible/ solving all problems.

L2P.

What? Are you aware that rapid Fire has an instant cast time? How do you expect the thief to stealth before the instant lock rapid fire? CnD has a half second cast time, and lol if you think d/p can stealth before he instant casts rapid fire.

Learn when to enter stealth and when to dodge, and when to dodge while in stealth…
Learn to count CD too…. Basically a L2P issue.

My point is too many thieves have the mentality of “I go into stealth = I’m safe”.

Wtf does learn to count CD mean?

It’s not a “stealth = safe” mentality. It’s that it makes NO SENSE why channeled attacks can follow someone while they’re in stealth. Even if you double dodge you will still get hit, and then you have no dodges for anything else.

What do you expect me to do? Blow all my intiative or use cooldowns every time I see a ranger in the distance? I don’t think you’ve ever actually played thief vs longbow ranger, or you would now how ridiculous a suggestion it is that to counter ranger rapid fire “learn when to enter stealth”.

Count CD of other opponent’s crucial skills like RF?
When RF is not ready, you can safely spike them. If you’re in melee range, you can cancel RF by roll through ranger/teleport to the back of ranger, and so on.
And yes, you should blow your initiative when you see RF, either to interrupt, dodge, and so on.

If all fails you, then go play that noobest build ever existed: Dire perplexity condition thief.

….none of this stuff is relevant because it ignores that rapid fire shouldn’t be allowed to follow someone in stealth.

According to whom?

Most games have at least some kind of caveat around “stealthing”. Be it moving slower, needing to stealth outside the attention of an enemy, things like being on fire or covered in jarate showing where you are etc. There’s always something to balance out the fact that you are now kittening invisible.

About the only downside to stealth in this game is it’s not “activate god mode” against channeled skills and apparently even that’s not enough.

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

According to your logic, it also makes no sense that you can stealth into shadow even though your opponent is watching IN FRONT of you.
This is not how stealth works in real life lol. Everyone should have notice your location if you stealth in combat.

If you want to argue logic in MMO, basically everything defies logic.

We had a Ranger night on our server and it was glorious. Great fun to pew pew thieves and watch them melt under fire from 30 Rangers. Even stealth couldn’t save them.

Johje Holan.4607:

We had a Ranger night on our server and it was glorious. Great fun to pew pew thieves and watch them melt under fire from 30 Rangers. Even stealth couldn’t save them.

Well, mostly it’s the other way round in my server. Usually 2~5 thieves roam in a group, taking turn SR, and spike any loners when I’m traveling

Fat Disgrace.4275:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

If you want to bring “logic” into this the how can a warrior block things from behind when the shield is facing forward, how can engies throw gronades behind them while running forward, how can a mesmers puney little scepter block a massive gs or hammer?

It’s a game dude, nothing is perfect. All class’s have pros and cons.

“Dude”, try reading things properly, I didn’t bring “logic” into it, the guy I was responding to did, my point that “logic” has nothing to do with how the skills in this game work.

zinkz.7045:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

If you want to bring “logic” into this the how can a warrior block things from behind when the shield is facing forward, how can engies throw gronades behind them while running forward, how can a mesmers puney little scepter block a massive gs or hammer?

It’s a game dude, nothing is perfect. All class’s have pros and cons.

“Dude”, try reading things properly, I didn’t bring “logic” into it, the guy I was responding to did, my point that “logic” has nothing to do with how the skills in this game work.

Oh i read clearly, I just tried to state other obvious things that are not logical in this game.

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

LOL, ‘lore-wise’, just pretend the same magic fairies that make stealth into invisibility give rangers magic powers when they fire their bow that lets them track “stealthy” foes.

Do you think it is logical that when someone is slashed by a sword they only bleed for a few seconds? Or that when your character dies they don’t actually die? Or that rangers/thieves never run out of arrows? Those are rhetorical by the way, as the answer is obviously they are not logical, but that is because game mechanics and balance, and your sort of “logic” do not mix.

Learn to dodge, interrupt, etc and stop making weak excuses for your failings with nonsense about “lore”.

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

That is what I called double standard.
You try to justify your stealth being logical, so “channel” skill should logically finish their channel even if you go into stealth.

Yeah I know, you just want your candy, I know you just want ranger to be free loot bags, I know you just want easy mode, I know you just want thief dominating all classes, I get it. Thief is thief zzz.

Moving on.

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

LOL, ‘lore-wise’, just pretend the same magic fairies that make stealth into invisibility give rangers magic powers when they fire their bow that lets them track “stealthy” foes.

Do you think it is logical that when someone is slashed by a sword they only bleed for a few seconds? Or that when your character dies they don’t actually die? Or that rangers/thieves never run out of arrows? Those are rhetorical by the way, as the answer is obviously they are not logical, but that is because game mechanics and balance, and your sort of “logic” do not mix.

Learn to dodge, interrupt, etc and stop making weak excuses for your failings with nonsense about “lore”.

Wow, what a strawman. The lore thing was not my argument, it was some extra information included at the end. My argument was that stealth was clearly designed to be used in broad daylight and it would be dumb if it couldn’t be. It makes sense that it works this way.

Channeled skills however, have no clear indication of why they should follow in stealth. They were clearly designed to be aimed at someone and require a target to be aimed at. Continuing to follow after the target disappeared creates a illogical paradox. Now it is up to you to justify why this strange paradox should exist.

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

That is what I called double standard.
You try to justify your stealth being logical, so “channel” skill should logically finish their channel even if you go into stealth.

Yeah I know, you just want your candy, I know you just want ranger to be free loot bags, I know you just want easy mode, I know you just want thief dominating all classes, I get it. Thief is thief zzz.

Moving on.

Really? From my point of view you want thieves to be free loot bags for rangers by allowing a cheap and broken mechanic to exist.

Logically, I’m pretty sure even the first arrow through my chest would put me in a “down state.”

Lore-wise, thieves smell, which makes them very easy for a hunter to track.

Playing a thief for, what, maybe even 3 years now, you’ve hopefully learned not to stand in red circles. Channeled skills are like that. Trust me: nearly everyone finds Rapid Fire pretty annoying. Annoying isn’t OP.

If you want to talk about how it’s annoying that channels track in stealth, let’s talk about how it’s annoying that gobs and gobs of skills can’t be activated at all without a target.

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

LOL, ‘lore-wise’, just pretend the same magic fairies that make stealth into invisibility give rangers magic powers when they fire their bow that lets them track “stealthy” foes.

Do you think it is logical that when someone is slashed by a sword they only bleed for a few seconds? Or that when your character dies they don’t actually die? Or that rangers/thieves never run out of arrows? Those are rhetorical by the way, as the answer is obviously they are not logical, but that is because game mechanics and balance, and your sort of “logic” do not mix.

Learn to dodge, interrupt, etc and stop making weak excuses for your failings with nonsense about “lore”.

Wow, what a strawman. The lore thing was not my argument, it was some extra information included at the end. My argument was that stealth was clearly designed to be used in broad daylight and it would be dumb if it couldn’t be. It makes sense that it works this way.

Channeled skills however, have no clear indication of why they should follow in stealth. They were clearly designed to be aimed at someone and require a target to be aimed at. Continuing to follow after the target disappeared creates a illogical paradox. Now it is up to you to justify why this strange paradox should exist.

I don’t need to justify anything, I’m not the one trying to justify one skill on “logic” or “lore” you are, logic or lore have absolutely nothing to do with it, as shown by the examples I gave that you conveniently ignored as they show how ludicrous your argument is, we’ve had people who can’t play whine about channelled skills before, guess what, nothing changed, it is a counter to stealth that provides some balance, in a game where stealth has very few, learn to play.

So you dont want to use your dodge button or just made a macro and you dont like if you cant kill somebody with 1 button

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.

Also, stealth in this game is completely different to stealth from other games. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

LOL, because being able to “stealth” in full sight of someone, in broad daylight in an open space with no cover is perfectly logical…

Stop equivocating. That’s not what I meant. Stealth was clearly designed to be able to be used in broad daylight; it makes sense that it works that way. and FYI, lore-wise, stealth is magic, so it can be logically justified in an in game way also.

As for channeled skills, there is no clear reason why they can track in stealth: it’s not logical.

That is what I called double standard.
You try to justify your stealth being logical, so “channel” skill should logically finish their channel even if you go into stealth.

Yeah I know, you just want your candy, I know you just want ranger to be free loot bags, I know you just want easy mode, I know you just want thief dominating all classes, I get it. Thief is thief zzz.

Moving on.

Really? From my point of view you want thieves to be free loot bags for rangers by allowing a cheap and broken mechanic to exist.

Nope. All channel skills works like that and you only want ranger to be the exception because it hurts your thief.
You’re the hypocritical one.

Also complaining a “game mechanic” that’s been there for ages, applying to all classes, just so it favors your thief, that is what I called “thief favourism”.

Also, I’m pretty sure most people will agree that stealth is a more broken mechanic than channel skills. If you want to argue me with logic, then I should be able to track stealth by sound, footprint, wind, grass movement and such in real life, why can’t I do so in GW2?

Short answer: L2P. Thief is not ranger’s free loot bag. Good thief can always beat a ranger, it’s not a hard-counter. You guys abused stealth long enough in WvW, so now’s time to start L2P.

If you keep dying to the rapid fire attack of a LB power ranger, it is not because that particular attack or that build is OP, it is because you kittening suck on your thief. Seriously, that is the only logical answer when you can’t beat the most ineffective class playing the highest risk build.

Toxsa.2701:

Nope. All channel skills works like that and you only want ranger to be the exception because it hurts your thief.
You’re the hypocritical one.

I actually think that all channel skills shouldn’t be able to do that. And it’s not because it hurts my thief, it’s because its a bad mechanic that shouldn’t exist.

Toxsa.2701:

Also complaining a “game mechanic” that’s been there for ages, applying to all classes, just so it favors your thief, that is what I called “thief favourism”.

First, changing the mechanic would also affect mesmers, engies, rangers (omg!), and actually every other class because they an be stealthed by someone else. Second, this is a personal attack against me, claiming that I have ulterior motives. That is not a real argument, that is ad hominem.

I could also just as easily accuse you of having “ranger favourism” (I think you mean “favoritism”). You’re defending a mechanic that clearly is to your benefit. Although other classes can use this mechanic to their benefit, like kill shot or magnet, ranger clearly has the most use of this broken mechanic against thieves. Therefore, you have “ranger favourism”, because it is within your best interests to allow this mechanic to exist.

And please, before anyone again misinterprets the above paragraph, I am satirizing his claim that I have “thief favourism”, and I am not accusing him of having ulterior motives, even though he might.

Toxsa.2701:

Also, I’m pretty sure most people will agree that stealth is a more broken mechanic than channel skills.

Balance is not a democracy.

Toxsa.2701:

If you want to argue me with logic, then I should be able to track stealth by sound, footprint, wind, grass movement and such in real life, why can’t I do so in GW2?

You are again equivocating my statements. Stealth was clearly designed to be allowed to be used in broad daylight and clearly designed to be undetectable by wind, sound, etc. When I said “logic”, i meant the reasoning behind skill design and balance, not realism and science.

zinkz.7045:

I don’t need to justify anything, I’m not the one trying to justify one skill on “logic” or “lore” you are, logic or lore have absolutely nothing to do with it, as shown by the examples I gave that you conveniently ignored as they show how ludicrous your argument is, we’ve had people who can’t play whine about channeled skills before, guess what, nothing changed, it is a counter to stealth that provides some balance, in a game where stealth has very few, learn to play.

What examples are you talking about? You never countered anything I said.

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

I don’t need to justify anything, I’m not the one trying to justify one skill on “logic” or “lore” you are, logic or lore have absolutely nothing to do with it, as shown by the examples I gave that you conveniently ignored as they show how ludicrous your argument is, we’ve had people who can’t play whine about channeled skills before, guess what, nothing changed, it is a counter to stealth that provides some balance, in a game where stealth has very few, learn to play.

What examples are you talking about? You never countered anything I said.

The examples I provided in my post that demonstrate how “logic” has nothing to do with game mechanics, such as it is not logical that thief, ranger, etc can carry around an infinite supply of arrows in their quiver, it is not logical that when you are slashed by a sword you stop bleeding after a few seconds, it is not logical that when you are killed you come back to life seconds later and so on.

The “logic” of your silly roleplaying fantasies have nothing to do with combat mechanics or the balance of the game.

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Nope. All channel skills works like that and you only want ranger to be the exception because it hurts your thief.
You’re the hypocritical one.

I actually think that all channel skills shouldn’t be able to do that. And it’s not because it hurts my thief, it’s because its a bad mechanic that shouldn’t exist.

Toxsa.2701:

Also complaining a “game mechanic” that’s been there for ages, applying to all classes, just so it favors your thief, that is what I called “thief favourism”.

First, changing the mechanic would also affect mesmers, engies, rangers (omg!), and actually every other class because they an be stealthed by someone else. Second, this is a personal attack against me, claiming that I have ulterior motives. That is not a real argument, that is ad hominem.

I could also just as easily accuse you of having “ranger favourism” (I think you mean “favoritism”). You’re defending a mechanic that clearly is to your benefit. Although other classes can use this mechanic to their benefit, like kill shot or magnet, ranger clearly has the most use of this broken mechanic against thieves. Therefore, you have “ranger favourism”, because it is within your best interests to allow this mechanic to exist.

And please, before anyone again misinterprets the above paragraph, I am satirizing his claim that I have “thief favourism”, and I am not accusing him of having ulterior motives, even though he might.

Toxsa.2701:

Also, I’m pretty sure most people will agree that stealth is a more broken mechanic than channel skills.

Balance is not a democracy.

Toxsa.2701:

If you want to argue me with logic, then I should be able to track stealth by sound, footprint, wind, grass movement and such in real life, why can’t I do so in GW2?

You are again equivocating my statements. Stealth was clearly designed to be allowed to be used in broad daylight and clearly designed to be undetectable by wind, sound, etc. When I said “logic”, i meant the reasoning behind skill design and balance, not realism and science.

zinkz.7045:

I don’t need to justify anything, I’m not the one trying to justify one skill on “logic” or “lore” you are, logic or lore have absolutely nothing to do with it, as shown by the examples I gave that you conveniently ignored as they show how ludicrous your argument is, we’ve had people who can’t play whine about channeled skills before, guess what, nothing changed, it is a counter to stealth that provides some balance, in a game where stealth has very few, learn to play.

What examples are you talking about? You never countered anything I said.

Ok, let’s make a deal.
Now RF can’t track you in stealth, but instead, it turns into a charge shot, that gathers all damage in one arrow. It takes 1 second to charge the attack, just like kill-shot Fair now right?

Do you think that we rangers even like RF being a channel skill? I rather it be like kill-shot.

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

zinkz.7045:

I don’t need to justify anything, I’m not the one trying to justify one skill on “logic” or “lore” you are, logic or lore have absolutely nothing to do with it, as shown by the examples I gave that you conveniently ignored as they show how ludicrous your argument is, we’ve had people who can’t play whine about channeled skills before, guess what, nothing changed, it is a counter to stealth that provides some balance, in a game where stealth has very few, learn to play.

What examples are you talking about? You never countered anything I said.

The examples I provided in my post that demonstrate how “logic” has nothing to do with game mechanics, such as it is not logical that thief, ranger, etc can carry around an infinite supply of arrows in their quiver, it is not logical that when you are slashed by a sword you stop bleeding after a few seconds, it is not logical that when you are killed you come back to life seconds later and so on.

The “logic” of your silly roleplaying fantasies have nothing to do with combat mechanics or the balance of the game.

I agree that the logic of a fantasy game has nothing to do with with combat mechanics or balance of the game. I never said that it did. I’ll quote myself because you clearly did not read.

Archon.6481:

You are again equivocating my statements. Stealth was clearly designed to be allowed to be used in broad daylight and clearly designed to be undetectable by wind, sound, etc. When I said “logic”, i meant the reasoning behind skill design and balance, not realism and science.

Now next please read between the lines and realize that I did not mean fantasy logic when i said logic.

Toxsa.2701:

Ok, let’s make a deal.
Now RF can’t track you in stealth, but instead, it turns into a charge shot, that gathers all damage in one arrow. It takes 1 second to charge the attack, just like kill-shot Fair now right?

Do you think that we rangers even like RF being a channel skill? I rather it be like kill-shot.

No.

This does nothing to solve the problem of tracking in stealth.

Archon.6481:

Now next please read between the lines and realize that I did not mean fantasy logic when i said logic.

‘Read between the lines’, LOL reading between the lines all I see is you came out with a nonsense argument trying to justify why rapid fire shouldn’t follow in stealth because it isn’t “logical” and now you are backtracking because you didn’t think it through properly and consider that virtually nothing about the combat is “logical”, so it was a dumb argument to make.

Archon.6481:

I agree that the logic of a fantasy game has nothing to do with with combat mechanics or balance of the game. I never said that it did.

Not to mention straight up lying through your teeth, I quote “Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.”, really pretty pathetic.

Let’s make it simple- as soon as you stealth, RF ends and you immediately take all the damage from the full channel.. There, now it’s fixed. Now you might have to learn to dodge instead of using a stupid mechanic in a game that is totally one sided in favour of the thief.

Wait, you don’t like a skill that now acts more like your OP backstab skill?

zinkz.7045:

Archon.6481:

Now next please read between the lines and realize that I did not mean fantasy logic when i said logic.

‘Read between the lines’, LOL reading between the lines all I see is you came out with a nonsense argument trying to justify why rapid fire shouldn’t follow in stealth because it isn’t “logical” and now you are backtracking because you didn’t think it through properly and consider that virtually nothing about the combat is “logical”, so it was a dumb argument to make.

Archon.6481:

I agree that the logic of a fantasy game has nothing to do with with combat mechanics or balance of the game. I never said that it did.

Not to mention straight up lying through your teeth, I quote “I agree that the logic of a fantasy game has nothing to do with with combat mechanics or balance of the game. I never said that it did.”, really pretty pathetic.

I really didn’t mean that. If anything you’re being a little rude for refusing to admit that you misinterpreted my argument. I mean seriously. Do you honestly think I would’ve tried to give an argument based on lore? I’m assuming that you have a hard time understanding idioms as well? Now unless you can contribute to this discussion instead of giving ad hominem then please just go away because you’re aren’t adding anything to this discussion by insulting me.

zinkz.7045:

Not to mention straight up lying through your teeth, I quote “Logically, it makes no sense why am a ability based on aiming should be able to pinpoint track someone while their target is invisible. Because this is illogical, the burden of proof as to why channeled skills should follow in stealth falls to you.”, really pretty pathetic.

Again, i meant mechanics logic. As in: this skill was designed with this in mind.

Rapid fire was meant to have a target in order for it to properly work. When a thief stealths, rapid fire still continues to fire. This creates a paradox where the action contradicts the intent.

Archon.6481:

I really didn’t mean that. If anything you’re being a little rude for refusing to admit that you misinterpreted my argument. I mean seriously. Do you honestly think I would’ve tried to give an argument based on lore? I’m assuming that you have a hard time understanding idioms as well? Now unless you can contribute to this discussion instead of giving ad hominem then please just go away because you’re aren’t adding anything to this discussion by insulting me.

I understand idioms fine thanks, as for contributions to the “debate”, I could say the same about you, you’ve offered absolutely zero of substance, and as for what I honestly think I’ve already stated it.

zinkz.7045:

Again, i meant mechanics logic. As in: this skill was designed with this in mind.

Rapid fire was meant to have a target in order for it to properly work. When a thief stealths, rapid fire still continues to fire. This creates a paradox where the action contradicts the intent.

Oh so you are a developer for Anet now, so you know how channelled skills were intended to work, oh wait you aren’t, and again are just confusing your unsubstantiated opinion, with fact.

There is no paradox or contradiction, game mechanics don’t follow “logic”, we’ve already established that, that channelled skills tracking the target make no sense to you is irrelevant.

Archon.6481:

Rapid fire was meant to have a target in order for it to properly work. When a thief stealths, rapid fire still continues to fire. This creates a paradox where the action contradicts the intent.

Rapid fire does need a target in order to track you. If the ranger used rapid fire after you went into stealth he would be wasting the skill.

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

I understand how that can be frustrating for you. It’s like John Wayne said, “Life’s hard. It’s even harder when you’re stupid.”

I would seriously love to see a Thief play a glass LB Ranger. Sure, Rapid Fire is a powerful skill but so is just about every skill a Thief has at their disposal. Thieves might not have a long range burst but they can still shadow step to you from 2 foot ball fields away, spike you down and vanish with a skill that can’t be interrupted (Blinding Powder) if things start to go south.

Relevant ~ Also notice this Thief is D/D as well.

Rapid Fire is a counter-steath skill. That is the “logic”. And it’s nearly the only effective skill in counter steath. Sick’em is much more ridiculous in countering steath, you should complain about it instead of RF.
Talk about steath mechanic, i cant even realize a pema-steath thief cause they live 99% of their life in shadow. How can such an annoying thing exist ?

zinkz.7045:

you’ve offered absolutely zero of substance, and as for what I honestly think I’ve already stated it.

I have offered my argument for why rapid fire or any other channeled skills shouldn’t follow in stealth. You however, have responded with nothing but ad hominem and equivocation.

zinkz.7045:

Oh so you are a developer for Anet now, so you know how channelled skills were intended to work, oh wait you aren’t, and again are just confusing your unsubstantiated opinion, with fact.

Nice strawman. I meant that rapid fire requires a target in order to work. When an ability requires a target in order to work, then surely it would make sense that the entire ability should require a target to work right? I never claimed to be an anet developer and was merely providing a paradox of the skill requiring a target only partway through it’s use.

zinkz.7045:

There is no paradox or contradiction, game mechanics don’t follow “logic”, we’ve already established that,

Really? Where? Did you really prove it or are you just confusing your unsubstantiated opinion with fact?

zinkz.7045:

that channelled skills tracking the target make no sense to you is irrelevant.

You thinking that it does make sense is irrelevant?

Jim Hunter.6821:

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

How, pray tell, do you think I should handle rapid fire once the ranger starts shooting then as a thief?

Jim Hunter.6821:

I understand how that can be frustrating for you. It’s like John Wayne said, “Life’s hard. It’s even harder when you’re stupid.”

Well, you’re stupid too? Seriously, grow up kid.

How do you handle rapid fire? I dunno, the same way other classes do it? Press dodge.

Let me ask you a question: if you keep saying that rapid fire counters stealth (which I do agree, it does), what else counters stealth?

-Stealth disruptor trap (impractical)
-Sic em
-???

I mean, there has to be some way to counter stealth. I used to play Thief in WvW a lot until it got too boring, as it’s too easy to ‘outplay’ people with my easy spammable auto-might stacking-self regenerating-condition-removing-enemy blinding stealth mechanic.

Just don’t think of it as invincibility and you’ll be fine.

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

How, pray tell, do you think I should handle rapid fire once the ranger starts shooting then as a thief?

I literally gave you 3 options right there….
Every time you post it becomes that much clearer why you are having problems with rapid fire.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

How, pray tell, do you think I should handle rapid fire once the ranger starts shooting then as a thief?

I literally gave you 3 options right there….
Every time you post it becomes that much clearer why you are having problems with rapid fire.

Dodge? Dodge is .75s long and if I double dodge that’s 1.5s. Rapid fire lasts 2.5 seconds. That 1 second will still take a respectable chunk of my health and they are still at 1500 range free to auto attack me.

Reflect with what? You mean that elite that’s worthless for any real group fight? Or should I pray I find a warrior to steal from?

Interrupt them at 1500 range? Even if I’m closer or use shadowstep they often times have rampage as one active.

The options you gave me are not realistic. Dodge leaves you incredibly vulnerable because, well, now you’re out of dodges and still at a distance. Reflect requires you to equip a worthless elite and its on a 90s CD (and you think that’s a viable counter lol), and interrupt relies entirely on being within range to begin with. And even then, it’s probably a waste of ini to interrupt unless it’s at the very start of the cast.

And I’m not having problems with rapid fire. Following through stealth is just a dumb and broken mechanic.

- My God. As i say, RF is a counter steath skill. You have to deal with it. Those solution are pretty easy so i dont know why you still complain.
- Use some toughness or vitality then ? Or you think steath mechanic will cover you most of the time and just go full berseker is fine ? Well this is PvP, not PvE; you fight against smart ppl, not dumb AI.
- Thief has tons of mobility, teleport, interupt…. why dont you use them ? Just steath and get away, then come back when the ranger didnt notice you, the rest is super easy. Seriously, it takes you 3s to gap close 1k5 range, every class can do it.
- Last, dont say something is borken unless you play it first.

Do teefs not realise that they are not the only class where bad things happen if you get hit by rapid fire? Or that they aren’t even close to the most vulnerable to taking a full rapid fire to the face?

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

How, pray tell, do you think I should handle rapid fire once the ranger starts shooting then as a thief?

I literally gave you 3 options right there….
Every time you post it becomes that much clearer why you are having problems with rapid fire.

Dodge? Dodge is .75s long and if I double dodge that’s 1.5s. Rapid fire lasts 2.5 seconds. That 1 second will still take a respectable chunk of my health and they are still at 1500 range free to auto attack me.

Reflect with what? You mean that elite that’s worthless for any real group fight? Or should I pray I find a warrior to steal from?

Interrupt them at 1500 range? Even if I’m closer or use shadowstep they often times have rampage as one active.

The options you gave me are not realistic. Dodge leaves you incredibly vulnerable because, well, now you’re out of dodges and still at a distance. Reflect requires you to equip a worthless elite and its on a 90s CD (and you think that’s a viable counter lol), and interrupt relies entirely on being within range to begin with. And even then, it’s probably a waste of ini to interrupt unless it’s at the very start of the cast.

And I’m not having problems with rapid fire. Following through stealth is just a dumb and broken mechanic.

sounds like you and your build suck dude. you wont take skills to counter whats killing you, and you wont dodge it. your idea of counterplay is demanding nerfs on the forums wow dude. (bet this guy has never seen the shadow step steal combos dang dude you play thief and can’t close 1500 mark of the scrub right there).

excuse me while i make a ‘conditions op’ thread where i talk about how i run full glass engi with no condi clear and refuse to dodge, block, reflect or LOS.

@archon
Hey, i play ranger, sometimes with LB. This is how you counter my cookie cutter 66020 LB build with a thief. Or any other variation of LB spam.

Solution 1:
Use Shadow Step skills to quickly teleport behind the ranger. This will cancel the skill and put it on cooldown. It will also let you perform a easy CnD + BS or Pistol Whip or basilisk + random skill.

Solution 2:
Drop a smoke screen. Not only will it block projectiles, but you can leap through it with heartseeker to gain stealth, then quickly perform a backstab.

Solution 3:
Daggerstorm.

Solution 4:
Throughout the fight, keep spamming Weakness (SB 4+SB2). EVERY power ranger build is depending on doing critical hits. If you apply weakness, their rapid fire will go from doing 15k+ damage, to barely 4k.

Solution 5:
Use the trap skill that grants you 10k teleport to target. Use it to instantly port ontop of roaming rangers and destroy them before they even know what to do.

Solution 6:
Find a tree/stone/building/bush to hide behind. This method is 100% more efficient then every other known counter. Simply teleport behind a solid object and let the ranger burn their rapid fire. Secondly, the ranger is most likely to cancel the skill and try use barrage, now by hiding behind a solid object, you have made the ranger waste 2 of the 3 most devastating skills they have vs thieves, even if they used Sic’em by this point it wouldn’t help at all.

Congrats, you now have 6 easy steps to beat a power LB ranger. If you keep returning to these forums to complain, it is simply a sign of how terrible you are as a thief. Perhaps you should play some other class. After all, even if you like the idea of a class, it still does not mean that said class will be the one you have the most potential with.
Why not try out engineers or mesmers? Both of these have very strong builds for roaming, and both can use stealth.

Archon.6481:

I have offered my argument for why rapid fire or any other channeled skills shouldn’t follow in stealth. You however, have responded with nothing but ad hominem and equivocation.

You have offered nothing but equivocation and whining due to your inability to play.

Archon.6481:

I meant that rapid fire requires a target in order to work. When an ability requires a target in order to work, then surely it would make sense that the entire ability should require a target to work right? I never claimed to be an anet developer and was merely providing a paradox of the skill requiring a target only partway through it’s use.

No it does not make sense that an ability would require the target the entire time, not sure why you find it so hard to grasp, game mechanics are not “logical” or consistent in that way, if they were then I would either need to aim my arrows like grenades, or grenades would automatically be targeted like arrows.

It is called balance, a concept you don’t seem to understand, a skill that deals its damage over x amount of time, is both easy to interrupt and easy to avoid part of the damage, it gives even the slowest of players time to dodge roll, block, blink, invurn, reflect, etc out of at least some of the damage, classes that can stealth a lot would virtually never be hit by a full channelled skill if a target was required for the whole channel, it would be hugely imbalanced, channelled skills also offer one of the few counters to stealth in this game, again balance.

And again there is no paradox, different skills work in different ways, I have no cooldown on my thief skills, that is not a paradox that is how it was designed, I have to aim my grenades on engy, again not a paradox just the way the skills are designed and balanced, just as channelled skills only require an initial target and then are locked to that target – design and balance, there is no paradox, game mechanics do not follow some strict “logical” code, which is why your entire argument is simply fallacious.

i actually quitted thief cuz meh… squishy.

but anyway i barely had any problems with rangers. the key is…… PET. lol. pretty much. DD build is very easy.(06620) its just same old CnD -> Backstab -> Wait out -> CnD (maybe on pet) -> backstab.. = done

so umm..ye.. he has a pet. which you can use for your benefit and time ur CnD well and he wont even have a chance to scratch u..(or u can just wait for your enemies near some mobs. so you can easily CnD on demand if needed. those white mobs you know..) but DD build is kinda limited idk. same repetitive combo.. most thieves play either S/D or D/P.. but atleast i personally felt hell too squishy on D/P (cuz 6 in trickery is meh) and initiative is over the roof. or just roll D/P build with 6 in shadow arts and basically do the same old technique with Stealth->backstab (but then be careful with shadow shot. ur initiative is limited. dont overspam it). u shouldnt have a problem at all with that build. even on DD build since u can stealth away so quickly and drop his hp to 20% in 1 hit.

PS – when ull be tired of being squishy just do like me. Medi Guard ftw <3. quite fun class + alot less room for major mistakes. those paper classes are meh.. 1 mistake and ur done (tho very fun to play atleast.. so thats a bonus for Thief)

Archon.6481:

Toxsa.2701:

Ok, let’s make a deal.
Now RF can’t track you in stealth, but instead, it turns into a charge shot, that gathers all damage in one arrow. It takes 1 second to charge the attack, just like kill-shot Fair now right?

Do you think that we rangers even like RF being a channel skill? I rather it be like kill-shot.

No.

This does nothing to solve the problem of tracking in stealth.

Tracking in stealth is an intented design. Stealth prevents skills from locking on to a target, but going into stealth does not interupt a lock on for a skill in process.

It never has, ever. This discussion has been brought up time and time again, as far back as beta. Where it was explained that this was a deliberate design choice, otherwise stealth would be to good. (i’d argue it still is to good)

You say Stealth is clearly designed to magically work in broad daylight, in an open field, under the watchful gaze of the masses. Well maintaining a lock on that was established pre-stealth is also clearly intented.

Untill a dev comes out and says they changed their stance on this; Working as Intented.

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Archon.6481:

Jim Hunter.6821:

What you are complaining about is that even though you know that channeled skills track stealth targets if they are activated before you stealth (since they have worked that way for the entire history of this game) you still don’t have the common sense to dodge, interrupt, reflect, etc.

How, pray tell, do you think I should handle rapid fire once the ranger starts shooting then as a thief?

I literally gave you 3 options right there….
Every time you post it becomes that much clearer why you are having problems with rapid fire.

Dodge? Dodge is .75s long and if I double dodge that’s 1.5s. Rapid fire lasts 2.5 seconds. That 1 second will still take a respectable chunk of my health and they are still at 1500 range free to auto attack me.

Reflect with what? You mean that elite that’s worthless for any real group fight? Or should I pray I find a warrior to steal from?

Interrupt them at 1500 range? Even if I’m closer or use shadowstep they often times have rampage as one active.

The options you gave me are not realistic. Dodge leaves you incredibly vulnerable because, well, now you’re out of dodges and still at a distance. Reflect requires you to equip a worthless elite and its on a 90s CD (and you think that’s a viable counter lol), and interrupt relies entirely on being within range to begin with. And even then, it’s probably a waste of ini to interrupt unless it’s at the very start of the cast.

And I’m not having problems with rapid fire. Following through stealth is just a dumb and broken mechanic.

How many rapid fires do you think you should be able to counter? You act like double dodging is a death sentence, if they are at 1500 range and you use your endurance to dodge rapid fire you are now free to hop into stealth and close the distance. When you are stealthed they have nothing to target, you are virtually immune to projectiles at that point.

And how is dagger storm worthless? Seems to me a skill that removes a weakness from your build is worth having, but that’s just because I prefer to adapt to the game and improve my own fighting ability rather than cry for a nerf on the forums.