Guild Wars 2

Forum bug /15 charrs dancing on the table.

Zulika Mi Nam.1092:

No vote for me – there was no option to remove DBL from WVW just as there never was a vote to put it in.
All of the available options will limit my playtime.
Not gonna chase down more information a dev makes on reddit, twitter, facebook, or other random site instead on the actual poll/site where people vote.
If you are not going to use your own forums get rid of them.

limit your playtime because you can play on every map at the same time? you can choose not to vote but your vote might be needed to not have dbl for 3 months on end. i don’t see why we can’t have both bls in place and not rotate. that way those that like alpine can k-train there hearts out and those that want desert bl can get lost for hours in it. if dbl happens to be your home bl and you hate it, well take over the enemy alpine bl and make it your new home bl..

I’m super excited. I’m a big DBL fan. I chose the 2 alpine 1 desert because I know I’m in the minority. Coming from a low pop server it may just give me the map I need to feel at home.

Bad poll. I wanted to vote option “Keep alpine border and trash the desert map for good.” As this doesn’t seem to be happening, I’m not gonna bother coming back to to play this game.

Will check forum in few weeks again and see if this nonsense is still going on.

Imo the Alpine Borderlands seem much more active than when had the DBL, they were really desert. I’d vote straight into remove the DBL from WvW and I have friends that said the same. I’m a happy WvW’er now that ABL are “temporarily” here

briggah.7910:

Zulika Mi Nam.1092:

No vote for me – there was no option to remove DBL from WVW just as there never was a vote to put it in.
All of the available options will limit my playtime.
Not gonna chase down more information a dev makes on reddit, twitter, facebook, or other random site instead on the actual poll/site where people vote.
If you are not going to use your own forums get rid of them.

limit your playtime because you can play on every map at the same time? you can choose not to vote but your vote might be needed to not have dbl for 3 months on end. i don’t see why we can’t have both bls in place and not rotate. that way those that like alpine can k-train there hearts out and those that want desert bl can get lost for hours in it. if dbl happens to be your home bl and you hate it, well take over the enemy alpine bl and make it your new home bl..

Someone will be screaming about it not being fair and you can never win that argument.

Put the DBL in some form of EoTM so that people who want that type of stuff can play it. Leave ABL in WvW for large group fights – everyone wins !!!

I will not play on DBL, so ya playtime limited for that reason as the others will be queue’d up longer. When the Alpines came back so did I. I had uninstalled as soon as I saw the first video of DBL last year.

Only reason I mention reduced playtime for myself is that the poll options are poor – not giving any option to those who do not want the DBL in WvW (like me) or for the person that does not want ABL in WvW.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Assuming the community votes to keep the borderlands map rotation strategy, we’ll want to eventually automate this process, in a non-disruptive way, but before we would start that work, we’d need the community to prioritize that project over other WvW needs.

Thanks for the response, however, if desert borderlands does end up sitting beside the 2 other Alpine maps, will the community have a “say” towards whether a 3rd map should be worked on right after, or whether attention should be focused towards fixing existing WvW problems that has been present for years such as: new players not knowing how to join a squad (no UI), or how sub-groups can’t see their team mates in squad for correct boon share? (Everyone’s name is blue) Or how the UI/mechanics still encourages blobs as the main play-style (which is fine for some) while roamers and 5-man tactical groups mechanics are already there, but not supported by the squad UI?

Anet if you’re going to bring back the desert borderlands, can you please give us more Variety of waypoints example:

Guild Waypoint: only members of a guild can use a waypoint.
Personal Waypoint: your very own personal waypoint. 15-30 min cooldown.
Party/Squad Waypoint: only people in the squad can use a waypoint.
Scout Waypoint: a waypoint that only scouts can create/open.
dolyak Waypoint: Commanders can hide a waypoint in a dolyak, if it reaches it’s destination it creates, a wp, at the supply depot, ready to be used when necessary. (one time use).

or at least increase the running speed to 40% or something. those desert borderlands are just too big, to walk/run. that’s my main issue with them, I like the design and everything else, but sheesh! not fun at all when you have to walk 5 mins to defend something.

Depraved Ambience.7942:

No, I voted exactly the way I wanted to. I know what I chose. If I were to change my vote, it would be to a No vote because I would not mind rotation between the maps.

Fair enough, your first vote sounded like you were voting for others over what you want. If you don’t place a vote for what you yourself want then you defeat them asking. Good hunting!

Supernatural Dawn.3194:

I’m super excited. I’m a big DBL fan. I chose the 2 alpine 1 desert because I know I’m in the minority. Coming from a low pop server it may just give me the map I need to feel at home.

Same here. I think the 2abl 1dbl option is a fine idea! Gives the majority 2 abls, and us few that liked dbl 1 of them. Cool idea, imo.

I think the only reason option 1 is winning is only because it offers 2 alpine and only 1 BDL lol.
This really shows how people feel about DBL

I want to vote but it appears to be bugged, stuck in a login loop.

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Bad Poll is Bad.

Sad they chose this route instead of understanding that players just wanted to play on Alpine WHILE THEY WAITED FOR A NEW MAP ( not DBL) to be made from ground up just for WvW instead and for Anet to remove DBL from WvW all together. This just nullifies the progress being made and will send people packing again. Was pointless to bring Alpine back and then not do what players were asking for in the first place.

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps? ( No they hate the DBL)

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same? ( No they hate the DBL)

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL? ( No they hate the DBL)

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things. Guilds have already announced they will be leaving when DBL returns, the same guilds who came back for the Alpines, so there goes the players who just came back.

They do not play the game mode to stay on a map, they play the game mode to actually hop to all the maps to defend the objectives, and when no one shows up or sieges or defends due to most players hating the map.. the game mode is broken/ unplayable.

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

1) keep abl (YES)
2) roate bls (NO)
3) keep dbl (NO)

voting here since there’s no feasible answer to select on the vote page, like trying to push a pay raise for teachers on the same bill as mandatory death penalty for traffic / parking violators. no real way to push that one through for the teachers.

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

I wasn’t informed by ingame Mail ….is it because I’m a Sad Panda ;(

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.
Best option would be No DBL in WVW, make an actual WvW map instead. You and I both know why that isn’t a poll answer.. it would have won hands down.

You don’t increase your player base and make a great game by half kittening it. The sooner they realize that the better.

having different maps for different BL’s… thats a bad idea. the differences between DBL and ABL are huge… its like eating plain white bread (alpine) and a multigrain bagel (DBL). It just doesnt work there are too many imblances between the maps.

My suggestion… why not have 4 diferent BLs for 4 different seasons of the year eg Summer = DBL, Winter = ABL

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.

Didnt I say multiple times that I dont like the dbl? However I dont think the devs should cater to my individual preferences at the expense of the community. What exactly is wrong with having more variety and choice? I prefer alpine, I can have alpine, those who like dbl can have dbl at the same time. A rotation means the same map for 3 months. Your the one who seems to want to see people leave so you can be proven right, you prefer alpine but seem to want dbl to be rotated for 3 months at a time so the playerbase can die off…

MangoCrush.7819:

having different maps for different BL’s… thats a bad idea. the differences between DBL and ABL are huge… its like eating plain white bread (alpine) and a multigrain bagel (DBL). It just doesnt work there are too many imblances between the maps.

My suggestion… why not have 4 diferent BLs for 4 different seasons of the year eg Summer = DBL, Winter = ABL

DBL ISN’T for summer THIS is for summer:
!http://www.astonhotels.com/assets/slides/690x380-Hawaii-Sunset.jpg!
DBL is not for any season..

I voted for MIXED 2 Alpine and 1 DBL…. I would hate to be stuck with a rotation and it lands on Deserted Boredomlands. Least with mixed Alpine would always be there.

I agree with others though the differences between the maps will probably cause a lot of imbalance…

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people, even with the imbalance it might cause.

I’m cool with a DBL rotation and if everyone loves alpine then we have that map available for everyone to use and if everyone loves DBL then we have that aswell I currently think we should of had both which isn’t a bad thing honestly we need 1 more map to complete the set

if I had It my way id make DBL the home borderlands
Alpine an extra map for the new Merged system so it helps with player pop
kinda like EB but keeping EB

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people.

That new map is supposedly going to be part of an upcoming poll so they can focus on what to prioritize. I would think if it wins out that it will come out with the next expac that is currently being worked on.

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.

Didnt I say multiple times that I dont like the dbl? However I dont think the devs should cater to my individual preferences at the expense of the community. What exactly is wrong with having more variety and choice? I prefer alpine, I can have alpine, those who like dbl can have dbl at the same time. A rotation means the same map for 3 months. Your the one who seems to want to see people leave so you can be proven right, you prefer alpine but seem to want dbl to be rotated for 3 months at a time so the playerbase can die off…wtf?

Nothing at all wrong with variety and choice, that is exactly what players asked for during the DBL boycott that came back over Alpine. Players asked for from the beginning GOOD WvW maps, they were only going to be waiting on Alpine WHILE THEY MADE A WVW MAP THIS TIME. It is the actual map design from the ground up that is the problem and needs to have a map designed that focuses on Keeping players engaged in Nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PVP action the entire time they are on it. PvP skills should not be an afterthought, they should be core showcased design. There are so many places some classes cannot even use their skills on that map at all. It was definitely not designed for PvP combat.. it is just bad.

The objectives should be close together, direct routes, easy access and players should have a reason to want to fight over them. IF you go more than a few seconds in between objectives, that is wasting everyone’s time. The map should be designed to bring players together not keep them apart and NEVER should a map prevent players from using their skills in a PvP zone..
The keeps are poorly designed for combat as well as the entire topography of the map.

You see, when players found out they were getting new Maps, they got all excited and were happy WvW was finally getting something just for WvW.. then they saw this atrocity of a gimmicky PvE bouncy stupid map and they actually abandoned the map DURING BETA. It should have never been released. Players deserve to actually get a WvW map designed for the best WvW they can bring us, not just take a broken map and make it playable. Players actually feel ripped off with this map and it is insulting to attempt to chain them to something bad like that instead of give players the WVW map they actually deserve.

Players want and deserve good maps and variety. This IS not good or the variety that wvw players deserve however.

This is not an argument of different vs the same. It is an argument of : design a GOOD map from the ground up for Nonstop PVP action vs take a crummy broken map and try to make it playable.

Voting out the DBL is voting out bad map and have them make better instead. Players deserve better instead of settling for this.

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people, even with the imbalance it might cause.

imbalance more like Challenge!!! I’m from BG if we are out numbered or out maneuvered or a there’s a unfair gameplay advantage then its just more fun for us.

X T D.6458:

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people.

That new map is supposedly going to be part of an upcoming poll so they can focus on what to prioritize. I would think if it wins out that it will come out with the next expac that is currently being worked on.

Agreed. But that’ll be a ways down the road, as we all know.

Budman.2934:

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people, even with the imbalance it might cause.

imbalance more like Challenge!!! I’m from BG if we are out numbered or out maneuvered or a there’s a unfair gameplay advantage then its just more fun for us.

I like the way you think. Agreed…..it would be a challenge, not an imbalance, if players chose to approach it that way.

And I am paired with one of the servers fighting you in wvw, atm. But I do agree…..nothing like a good, challenging fight.

@Lil devils, Yes I am well aware of the flaws that the dbl has. I have been quite vocal about it ingame and on the forums. If I had it my way we would just have alpine until a better map can come along. HOWEVER, the reality is getting rid of it is not a choice for the poll, therefore I would rather be realistic. The best option as I see it is the 2alpine/1dbl choice, more choice, more variety, and we dont have to get stuck with dbl for 3 months.

Teon.5168:

X T D.6458:

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people.

That new map is supposedly going to be part of an upcoming poll so they can focus on what to prioritize. I would think if it wins out that it will come out with the next expac that is currently being worked on.

Agreed. But that’ll be a ways down the road, as we all know.

I hope we get details of what it could look like, or any features they have planned for it before voting

X T D.6458:

@Lil devils, Yes I am well aware of the flaws that the dbl has. I have been quite vocal about it ingame and on the forums. If I had it my way we would just have alpine until a better map can come along. HOWEVER, the reality is getting rid of it is not a choice for the poll, therefore I would rather be realistic. The best option as I see it is the 2alpine/1dbl choice, more choice, more variety, and we dont have to get stuck with dbl for 3 months.

The reality is it isn’t a choice in the poll means they refuse to listen to what the players have to say about = Players need to SPEAK LOUDER to be heard. If they are going to half do it , instead of do it right, it is up to the players to call them out on it. Either they are listening or they are not. If they would be willing to let thousands of players leave for 3 months or may not come back at all and stop waiting, that really goes to show their level of ca re about what players think then eh?

It is seriously messed up that people should be willing to " settle" for something they are obviously not happy with, and that the developer knows this and intentionally left it out for that reason does not mean players should just " take it". No, at that point if they want to ignore what players asked for an half do it, would be better to not play it at all then to just say " oh well I used to enjoy this game".. until they leave all together.

X T D.6458:

Teon.5168:

X T D.6458:

Teon.5168:

I’d be willing to bet that those who voted no think they won’t see dbls. LOL….better look at the poll closer…..voting no just means we’ll get 3 months of abls, then 3 months of dbls in a rotation. McKenna has already said that a 3rd, new map option is off the table at this point in time. I, for one, would rather have a mixed bls….1 dbl and 2 abls…..seems to me this would satisfy the most people.

That new map is supposedly going to be part of an upcoming poll so they can focus on what to prioritize. I would think if it wins out that it will come out with the next expac that is currently being worked on.

Agreed. But that’ll be a ways down the road, as we all know.

I hope we get details of what it could look like, or any features they have planned for it before voting

That would certainly seem logical. What with the attention they have been paying lately to WvW, I have faith that we’ll get plenty of details on any new sorts of wvw lands, if they decide to continue in that direction.

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

@Lil devils, Yes I am well aware of the flaws that the dbl has. I have been quite vocal about it ingame and on the forums. If I had it my way we would just have alpine until a better map can come along. HOWEVER, the reality is getting rid of it is not a choice for the poll, therefore I would rather be realistic. The best option as I see it is the 2alpine/1dbl choice, more choice, more variety, and we dont have to get stuck with dbl for 3 months.

The reality is it isn’t a choice in the poll means they refuse to listen to what the players have to say about = Players need to SPEAK LOUDER to be heard. If they are going to half do it , instead of do it right, it is up to the players to call them out on it. Either they are listening or they are not. If they would be willing to let thousands of players leave for 3 months or may not come back at all and stop waiting, that really goes to show their level of ca re about what players think then eh?

It is seriously messed up that people should be willing to " settle" for something they are obviously not happy with, and that the developer knows this and intentionally left it out for that reason does not mean players should just " take it". No, at that point if they want to ignore what players asked for an half do it, would be better to not play it at all then to just say " oh well I used to enjoy this game".. until they leave all together.

Has it ever occurred to you that the direction they’re currently heading might actually be the way the majority of the players want?

It certainly could be possible that your opinion on the fixes that you think they need to make might be in the minority, and not what most of the playerbase actually wants.

Players might not be “settling”. They just might not agree with what your opinion is on it all.

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.

Didnt I say multiple times that I dont like the dbl? However I dont think the devs should cater to my individual preferences at the expense of the community. What exactly is wrong with having more variety and choice? I prefer alpine, I can have alpine, those who like dbl can have dbl at the same time. A rotation means the same map for 3 months. Your the one who seems to want to see people leave so you can be proven right, you prefer alpine but seem to want dbl to be rotated for 3 months at a time so the playerbase can die off…wtf?

Nothing at all wrong with variety and choice, that is exactly what players asked for during the DBL boycott that came back over Alpine. Players asked for from the beginning GOOD WvW maps, they were only going to be waiting on Alpine WHILE THEY MADE A WVW MAP THIS TIME. It is the actual map design from the ground up that is the problem and needs to have a map designed that focuses on Keeping players engaged in Nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PVP action the entire time they are on it. PvP skills should not be an afterthought, they should be core showcased design. There are so many places some classes cannot even use their skills on that map at all. It was definitely not designed for PvP combat.. it is just bad.

The objectives should be close together, direct routes, easy access and players should have a reason to want to fight over them. IF you go more than a few seconds in between objectives, that is wasting everyone’s time. The map should be designed to bring players together not keep them apart and from using their skills in a PvP zone..
The keeps are poorly designed for combat as well as the entire topography of the map.

You see, when players found out they were getting new Maps, they got all excited and were happy WvW was finally getting something just for WvW.. then they saw this atrocity of a gimmicky PvE bouncy stupid map and they actually abandoned the map DURING BETA. It should have never been released. Players deserve to actually get a WvW map designed for the best WvW they can bring us, not just take a broken map and make it playable. Players actually feel ripped off with this map and it is insulting to attempt to chain them to something bad like that instead of give players the WVW map they actually deserve.

Players want and deserve good maps and variety. This IS not good or the variety that wvw players deserve however.

This is not an argument of different vs the same. It is an argument of : design a GOOD map from the ground up for Nonstop PVP action vs take a crummy broken map and try to make it playable.

Voting out the DBL is voting out bad map and have them make better instead. Players deserves better instead.

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and say Is DBL really that bad?
and if so what has made it such a bad map for players like yourself to feel so riled into getting it completely removed, DBL was the map to fix all the alpine problems which has many

the map your suggesting is a war map where its just plain zerg and kill which seems ok at the thought but based on designs on previous games it will suck like really really bad after awhile because individual players won’t amount to much it would be based off numbers which would be pointless for the masses excluding the current system of course

unless you turn it into a GvG WvW map where its based off of a alliance of guilds competing against each other for kills then it would seem more plausible which would have to be regulated in a way that its not affecting WvW tiers to much and doesn’t end up like EOTM, but with the current players that are for DBL it would turn a lot of people away from wvw which is exactly what they are trying to prevent I can see a new map being added down the road but that’s then this is now and now is not to cater to the tastes of the few who don’t like one map in particular over all the other ones

right now adding DBL into rotation will be a good thing and if you can offer Evidence that 90% of the community will leave if we add it into rotation then please forward the results to me and this post but other than that I hardly see anyone going up in arms over adding a little bit of diversity to the current system

as anet said many times before this poll is the start of a very long line of projects that anet is trying to do to fix the game if you can wait 2 months for a good movie to come out then you can wait a few months for WvW to get back on its feet again

(this post was tended to relate to several topics not specifically this the predecessors post if you feel kitten in anyway please write a letter to your nearest congressmen)

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

@Lil devils, Yes I am well aware of the flaws that the dbl has. I have been quite vocal about it ingame and on the forums. If I had it my way we would just have alpine until a better map can come along. HOWEVER, the reality is getting rid of it is not a choice for the poll, therefore I would rather be realistic. The best option as I see it is the 2alpine/1dbl choice, more choice, more variety, and we dont have to get stuck with dbl for 3 months.

The reality is it isn’t a choice in the poll means they refuse to listen to what the players have to say about = Players need to SPEAK LOUDER to be heard. If they are going to half do it , instead of do it right, it is up to the players to call them out on it. Either they are listening or they are not. If they would be willing to let thousands of players leave for 3 months or may not come back at all and stop waiting, that really goes to show their level of ca re about what players think then eh?

It is seriously messed up that people should be willing to " settle" for something they are obviously not happy with, and that the developer knows this and intentionally left it out for that reason does not mean players should just " take it". No, at that point if they want to ignore what players asked for an half do it, would be better to not play it at all then to just say " oh well I used to enjoy this game".. until they leave all together.

Has it ever occurred to you that the direction they’re currently heading might actually be the way the majority of the players want?

It certainly could be possible that your opinion on the fixes that you think they need to make might be in the minority, and not what most of the playerbase actually wants.

Players might not be “settling”. They just might not agree with what your opinion is on it all.

DID you miss the numbers after Hot and the months upon months of the game hemorrhaging players all the while them telling Anet in the forums it was due to the DBLS? I didn’t.. I talked many into coming back. Did it occur to you we had a poll about this too? We are not talking about a small number of players that left over the DBLs in the first place.

The numbers they posted in these very forums repeatedly showed that 1) EBG outnumbered all 3 DBLs combined in most every tier. 2) Alpine outnumbered EBG .. so what does that tell us? ALSO the number of guilds and players that left WvW over The DBLS was no small number, if they want those players to stay and continue to come back and grow, they cannot reverse the progress on that.

In fact, why not just make a poll asking how many want to scrap vs keep the DBL and you will find out pretty fast how this works..

To be fair there were a lot of other factors that turned people away from wvw aside from the dbl, guild hall/upgrade grind for example, grinding pve for elite specs and other stuff, unbalanced gimmicks like banners, fog, airship etc.

Budman.2934:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.

Didnt I say multiple times that I dont like the dbl? However I dont think the devs should cater to my individual preferences at the expense of the community. What exactly is wrong with having more variety and choice? I prefer alpine, I can have alpine, those who like dbl can have dbl at the same time. A rotation means the same map for 3 months. Your the one who seems to want to see people leave so you can be proven right, you prefer alpine but seem to want dbl to be rotated for 3 months at a time so the playerbase can die off…wtf?

Nothing at all wrong with variety and choice, that is exactly what players asked for during the DBL boycott that came back over Alpine. Players asked for from the beginning GOOD WvW maps, they were only going to be waiting on Alpine WHILE THEY MADE A WVW MAP THIS TIME. It is the actual map design from the ground up that is the problem and needs to have a map designed that focuses on Keeping players engaged in Nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PVP action the entire time they are on it. PvP skills should not be an afterthought, they should be core showcased design. There are so many places some classes cannot even use their skills on that map at all. It was definitely not designed for PvP combat.. it is just bad.

The objectives should be close together, direct routes, easy access and players should have a reason to want to fight over them. IF you go more than a few seconds in between objectives, that is wasting everyone’s time. The map should be designed to bring players together not keep them apart and from using their skills in a PvP zone..
The keeps are poorly designed for combat as well as the entire topography of the map.

You see, when players found out they were getting new Maps, they got all excited and were happy WvW was finally getting something just for WvW.. then they saw this atrocity of a gimmicky PvE bouncy stupid map and they actually abandoned the map DURING BETA. It should have never been released. Players deserve to actually get a WvW map designed for the best WvW they can bring us, not just take a broken map and make it playable. Players actually feel ripped off with this map and it is insulting to attempt to chain them to something bad like that instead of give players the WVW map they actually deserve.

Players want and deserve good maps and variety. This IS not good or the variety that wvw players deserve however.

This is not an argument of different vs the same. It is an argument of : design a GOOD map from the ground up for Nonstop PVP action vs take a crummy broken map and try to make it playable.

Voting out the DBL is voting out bad map and have them make better instead. Players deserves better instead.

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and say Is DBL really that bad?
and if so what has made it such a bad map for players like yourself to feel so riled into getting it completely removed, DBL was the map to fix all the alpine problems which has many

the map your suggesting is a war map where its just plain zerg and kill which seems ok at the thought but based on designs on previous games it will suck like really really bad after awhile because individual players won’t amount to much it would be based off numbers which would be pointless for the masses excluding the current system of course

unless you turn it into a GvG WvW map where its based off of a alliance of guilds competing against each other for kills then it would seem more plausible which would have to be regulated in a way that its not affecting WvW tiers to much and doesn’t end up like EOTM, but with the current players that are for DBL it would turn a lot of people away from wvw which is exactly what they are trying to prevent I can see a new map being added down the road but that’s then this is now and now is not to cater to the tastes of the few who don’t like one map in particular over all the other ones

right now adding DBL into rotation will be a good thing and if you can offer Evidence that 90% of the community will leave if we add it into rotation then please forward the results to me and this post but other than that I hardly see anyone going up in arms over adding a little bit of diversity to the current system

as anet said many times before this poll is the start of a very long line of projects that anet is trying to do to fix the game if you can wait 2 months for a good movie to come out then you can wait a few months for WvW to get back on its feet again

(this post was tended to relate to several topics not specifically this the predecessors post if you feel kitten in anyway please write a letter to your nearest congressmen)

The DBL was not to fix the Alpine issues at all, it was to incorporate PvE and Jumping puzzles into WvW game play… not about PvP at all was the issue. Yes, it was that bad.. scroll from the WvW beta onward and you will see the thousands of posts on the subject if you wish. The terrain is actually preventing PvP skills from being used in combat rendering some classes unplayable on parts of the map..

Where you here from the release of HOT until present? All you have to do is read These very forums and reddit.. Anet already saw this, why do you think Alpine came back so fast? They released their financials from HOT already too….

Lil devils x, you take yourself, and this game, way, way too seriously.

And that is just my opinion, just like anyone else’s post in this forum, including yours.

X T D.6458:

To be fair there were a lot of other factors that turned people away from wvw aside from the dbl, guild hall/upgrade grind for example, grinding pve for elite specs and other stuff, unbalanced gimmicks like banners, fog, airship etc.

Yes, so easiest way to know for sure is a poll :
Keep DBL or scrap DBL?
Wouldn’t that be easy if this were actually about what players wanted?

X T D.6458:

To be fair there were a lot of other factors that turned people away from wvw aside from the dbl, guild hall/upgrade grind for example, grinding pve for elite specs and other stuff, unbalanced gimmicks like banners, fog, airship etc.

Agreed. The problems with this game are numerous, people leave for all sorts of different reasons. One of the things that I rarely see brought up about this game is its sheer age. That, too, is a reason for the playerbase numbers changing.

The above being said, I still enjoy the game a lot.

Teon.5168:

X T D.6458:

To be fair there were a lot of other factors that turned people away from wvw aside from the dbl, guild hall/upgrade grind for example, grinding pve for elite specs and other stuff, unbalanced gimmicks like banners, fog, airship etc.

Agreed. The problems with this game are numerous, people leave for all sorts of different reasons. One of the things that I rarely see brought up about this game is its sheer age. That, too, is a reason for the playerbase numbers changing.

The above being said, I still enjoy the game a lot.

So where is the problem in asking them then eh?

Scrap DBL or KEEP DBL?

Would that not be the easiest way to tell ?

Yes, we already know the answer and so do they IS the issue. That is the question that should have been asked before ever letting it go live since it was actually abandoned during beta.

lil devils x.6071:

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

@Lil devils, Yes I am well aware of the flaws that the dbl has. I have been quite vocal about it ingame and on the forums. If I had it my way we would just have alpine until a better map can come along. HOWEVER, the reality is getting rid of it is not a choice for the poll, therefore I would rather be realistic. The best option as I see it is the 2alpine/1dbl choice, more choice, more variety, and we dont have to get stuck with dbl for 3 months.

The reality is it isn’t a choice in the poll means they refuse to listen to what the players have to say about = Players need to SPEAK LOUDER to be heard. If they are going to half do it , instead of do it right, it is up to the players to call them out on it. Either they are listening or they are not. If they would be willing to let thousands of players leave for 3 months or may not come back at all and stop waiting, that really goes to show their level of ca re about what players think then eh?

It is seriously messed up that people should be willing to " settle" for something they are obviously not happy with, and that the developer knows this and intentionally left it out for that reason does not mean players should just " take it". No, at that point if they want to ignore what players asked for an half do it, would be better to not play it at all then to just say " oh well I used to enjoy this game".. until they leave all together.

Has it ever occurred to you that the direction they’re currently heading might actually be the way the majority of the players want?

It certainly could be possible that your opinion on the fixes that you think they need to make might be in the minority, and not what most of the playerbase actually wants.

Players might not be “settling”. They just might not agree with what your opinion is on it all.

DID you miss the numbers after Hot and the months upon months of the game hemorrhaging players all the while them telling Anet in the forums it was due to the DBLS? I didn’t.. I talked many into coming back. Did it occur to you we had a poll about this too? We are not talking about a small number of players that left over the DBLs in the first place.

The numbers they posted in these very forums repeatedly showed that 1) EBG outnumbered all 3 DBLs combined in most every tier. 2) Alpine outnumbered EBG .. so what does that tell us? ALSO the number of guilds and players that left WvW over The DBLS was no small number, if they want those players to stay and continue to come back and grow, they cannot reverse the progress on that.

In fact, why not just make a poll asking how many want to scrap vs keep the DBL and you will find out pretty fast how this works..

you got 5 guys in a room maybe more maybe less maybe one is transgender and the rest is female, who knows however, they have to make a decision that will affect. how we as WvW players enjoy our game, maybe they made a few bad decisions before.

so now there starting a poll to see what the community wants and reading the forums on ideas they haven’t even thought of yet they have a few more ideas but there gonna let the community decide hence the poll….

but then they read the post about how anet is stupid and does everything wrong and to change everything back to way it was I hate this new stuff and so does everyone else which isn’t true and so I’m sure they just scroll down and look at the more positive post with actual feedback and ideas related to the game that could possibly make it better for everyone instead of complaining about it

this post is not completely related to the previous poster just to the majority of negative feedback on this and past forums

lil devils x.6071:

Budman.2934:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

lil devils x.6071:

morrolan.9608:

lil devils x.6071:

Mixed Borderlands = Players that came back for Alpine leave game all together.
Rotate Borderlands = Players only Play when Alpine is in use.
Mixed Borderlands= Broken game ALL the time
Rotate Borderlands= Working game part of the time.

Why would players leave if its mixed? They can only play on the Alpine map(s) if they want in this case which seems like a good result to me.

1)Will the same amount of players who would defend the keeps on the ABL hop to DBL to defend the keeps?

2)Will the same amount of players who build and refresh siege on the ABL hop to the DBL to do the same?

3) Will the same amount of players who scout the ABL also scout the DBL?

Players who lose their objectives due to the map being in play will leave the game due to the map being in play. The same reason they left the first time. It is a broken game mode/ unplayable for those players who do actually do these things.

My guild has quite a few players that like the dbl, and I predict we will be one of the main forces that raid on it consistently since we pretty much raid exclusively on the borderlands anyways. I am not a fan of the dbl but I have fun during guild raids on it, at least this way I and others can have a choice on what map to play on, players who like the dbl can have it available, those like us that like alpine can have it available without having to wait 3 months at a time and having players forced to only play on one borderland map.

And yes we will absolutely hop maps to and from dbl/alpine if needed because we are community/server oriented and enjoy working with other groups.

Luckily you are on a server that has plenty of people to respond regardless of the map. Most servers cannot say the same, however. Most are strapped outside of NA prime and when you start out with 25 and wind up with 7 when you hop to a DBL, people tend to become a bit more than irritated when they lose all their objectives due to a bad map being in the game.
The question was specifically would “THE SAME AMOUNT” , which that answer is clearly “NO.” Of course some will, but not all servers have the same amount of " some".

New win mechanic:
Server with most players who likes DBL = WIN.
Everyone else go home.

Dbl is going to be part of wvw /shrug, deleting it and throwing it into the dustbin is not an option, not for this poll or in any practical application. Would you rather have it the only bl map for 3 months at a time, or have it limited to 1 map, and have alpine always available. Its the best option available.

I would rather them actually design a wvw map from the ground up that keeps players in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it and not try to shovel the Kitten they are expecting players to " settle" for. What you are suggesting is this:
Players massively leave the game again. That is what happened last time. they didn’t learn their lesson then they will leave for good. It should ALWAYS be an option to increase your player base rather than send them packing.

Yes vote for rotation, then have WvW abandoned while DBL is in play all the while forums and reddit light their kittens on fire and see how fast they scrap that idea is the better plan.
The alternative is to have:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother showing up.

That is how it works in reality.
Best option available = Vote for rotation then protest when DBL is in play until they take it out.

Didnt I say multiple times that I dont like the dbl? However I dont think the devs should cater to my individual preferences at the expense of the community. What exactly is wrong with having more variety and choice? I prefer alpine, I can have alpine, those who like dbl can have dbl at the same time. A rotation means the same map for 3 months. Your the one who seems to want to see people leave so you can be proven right, you prefer alpine but seem to want dbl to be rotated for 3 months at a time so the playerbase can die off…wtf?

Nothing at all wrong with variety and choice, that is exactly what players asked for during the DBL boycott that came back over Alpine. Players asked for from the beginning GOOD WvW maps, they were only going to be waiting on Alpine WHILE THEY MADE A WVW MAP THIS TIME. It is the actual map design from the ground up that is the problem and needs to have a map designed that focuses on Keeping players engaged in Nonstop strategic, challenging, fun PVP action the entire time they are on it. PvP skills should not be an afterthought, they should be core showcased design. There are so many places some classes cannot even use their skills on that map at all. It was definitely not designed for PvP combat.. it is just bad.

The objectives should be close together, direct routes, easy access and players should have a reason to want to fight over them. IF you go more than a few seconds in between objectives, that is wasting everyone’s time. The map should be designed to bring players together not keep them apart and from using their skills in a PvP zone..
The keeps are poorly designed for combat as well as the entire topography of the map.

You see, when players found out they were getting new Maps, they got all excited and were happy WvW was finally getting something just for WvW.. then they saw this atrocity of a gimmicky PvE bouncy stupid map and they actually abandoned the map DURING BETA. It should have never been released. Players deserve to actually get a WvW map designed for the best WvW they can bring us, not just take a broken map and make it playable. Players actually feel ripped off with this map and it is insulting to attempt to chain them to something bad like that instead of give players the WVW map they actually deserve.

Players want and deserve good maps and variety. This IS not good or the variety that wvw players deserve however.

This is not an argument of different vs the same. It is an argument of : design a GOOD map from the ground up for Nonstop PVP action vs take a crummy broken map and try to make it playable.

Voting out the DBL is voting out bad map and have them make better instead. Players deserves better instead.

I’m just gonna go out on a limb here and say Is DBL really that bad?
and if so what has made it such a bad map for players like yourself to feel so riled into getting it completely removed, DBL was the map to fix all the alpine problems which has many

the map your suggesting is a war map where its just plain zerg and kill which seems ok at the thought but based on designs on previous games it will suck like really really bad after awhile because individual players won’t amount to much it would be based off numbers which would be pointless for the masses excluding the current system of course

unless you turn it into a GvG WvW map where its based off of a alliance of guilds competing against each other for kills then it would seem more plausible which would have to be regulated in a way that its not affecting WvW tiers to much and doesn’t end up like EOTM, but with the current players that are for DBL it would turn a lot of people away from wvw which is exactly what they are trying to prevent I can see a new map being added down the road but that’s then this is now and now is not to cater to the tastes of the few who don’t like one map in particular over all the other ones

right now adding DBL into rotation will be a good thing and if you can offer Evidence that 90% of the community will leave if we add it into rotation then please forward the results to me and this post but other than that I hardly see anyone going up in arms over adding a little bit of diversity to the current system

as anet said many times before this poll is the start of a very long line of projects that anet is trying to do to fix the game if you can wait 2 months for a good movie to come out then you can wait a few months for WvW to get back on its feet again

(this post was tended to relate to several topics not specifically this the predecessors post if you feel kitten in anyway please write a letter to your nearest congressmen)

The DBL was not to fix the Alpine issues at all, it was to incorporate PvE and Jumping puzzles into WvW game play… not about PvP at all was the issue. Yes, it was that bad.. scroll from the WvW beta onward and you will see the thousands of posts on the subject if you wish. The terrain is actually preventing PvP skills from being used in combat rendering some classes unplayable on parts of the map..

Where you here from the release of HOT until present? All you have to do is read These very forums and reddit.. Anet already saw this, why do you think Alpine came back so fast? They released their financials from HOT already too….

i can see your point but a few nit picks per the whole map doesn’t make it a bad map

lil devils x.6071:

X T D.6458:

To be fair there were a lot of other factors that turned people away from wvw aside from the dbl, guild hall/upgrade grind for example, grinding pve for elite specs and other stuff, unbalanced gimmicks like banners, fog, airship etc.

Yes, so easiest way to know for sure is a poll :
Keep DBL or scrap DBL?
Wouldn’t that be easy if this were actually about what players wanted?

So I am assuming, by your above statement, and the many others that you have flailed about on these forums, that you, and you alone know what the players actually want?

Just going from the seemingly overwhelming confidence from your posts that YOU have your hand on the heartbeat of the playerbase.

In reality, I seriously doubt if any regular poster on these boards has even a slight clue as to what the majority of the playerbase finds to be fun in this game. It certainly varies with me and my wife, as well as a lot of my fellow guildies.

Anyways, this discussion is truly pointless. People’s opinions are very, very subjective….including (GASP!) yours.