Guild Wars 2

These topics get made every 3 days, we know already. Lets hope the patch will improve WvW.

Inb4 patch is going to be bad etc

Eclipses.7152:

2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking*

Spare me the lore argument. The game is called guild wars and the guild component as it relates to WvW is undercooked. The buffs and the siege weapons you can get from the guild upgrades are great, truly they are, but that’s where it stops.

If we take bay, garri, sm or what have you – does that do anything for our guild? So our banner is hanging from some parapets, what of it? Do you know whose banner that is? Are the NPCs named after us? Do we get influence or gold or karma over time for holding onto an objective? Does it announce in map chat that xxx guild has captured and claimed xxx objective? Do we have a system that allows us to form groups larger than 5 or at the very least see all guildies on the map? Is there any mechanic at all, other than an indistinguishable banner, that recognizes guild achievements in WvW? is there anything – at all – that truly benefits WvW guilds and significantly encourages guilds in this gameplay?

The answer to all of these questions are No. The guild buffs do not significantly encourage guild gameplay in WvW as they apply to pugs as well. They’re a ‘set-it-and-forget-it’ mechanic. No one knows which guild just gave them 5 different types of buffs neither do you need to be in that guild to get them. I’m not advocating that you should – but it just goes to show that guilds really lack scope and purpose in WvW.

very very true, i would like my guild to be recognized more when we take towers using our very cooridinated strike force

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

When I first started playing WvW in the BWE’s and the weeks and months after launch, zergs were a valid tactic, a tool to be used, but could be tactically outplayed using coordination. More often than not, at launch the guilds in TA were outnumbered vs the guilds from other alliances, notably Ascension Alliance, due to HoD bandwagoners and queues. I remember going against devastating, brutal zergs; even when you beat them they’d come back again and again knocking on your door over and over and over like a battering ram. Like a heavyweight boxing match they’d just keep bashing you again and again until you felt like you couldn’t take anymore. As soon as you finished the last of a zerg, regrouped and got your bearings – they were on your doorstep again. It was awesome.

Once when our homeworld garrison was occupied by Ascension, my guild and 2 other TA guilds were assigned to take it back. Using about 5 guys to attack Bay and draw swords, the rest of our motley crew hit garrison for all we were worth. Eventually they were too slow getting back to garri and we ninja’d it from them. It was a great feeling.

Eclipses.7152:

I told this long story because the WvW pop has consistently dwindled now to where ZvZ is the only way to play. Sure, you can try to play tactical with a small group and ninja an obj. A zerg can take it faster though. Sure, you can try and defend your only remaining objective on the map with the handful of people you have. A zerg will just ram right through you and your defenses though. Due to culling and the way the maps are designed, a zerg will get to a location just as fast and stealthily as a small tactical group (and maybe even more so).

Zergs even have the advantage in fights vs smaller groups, due to the AoE limitation. The AoE limitation is so utterly idiotic I cannot wrap my head around it. Zergs are a valid tatic – they shouldn’t just be the ONLY tactic. AoE limit needs to be lifted/increased and some other mechanics need to go into place to dull the power of zergs and ecourage more tactical play.

very dumb section of this post, a group of 9 can decimate a group of 30+ if you are smart and know when and where to hold them. as you can see in the picture below, we had 9 arrow carts at a perfect location to defend as we had a choke point. if we had tried to defend at quentin instead of langor we wouldve DEFINITLY been wiped, but we used.. wait for it.. wait for it… STRATEGY afterwards, we retook quentin and proceded to take durios and bravost before the enemy invaders were able to get enough discouraged people to come back and fight for it again, and by that time we had fully upgraded tower, and once again we decimated them. we did this one more time before they took our keep instead, and then trebbed us. we held them off for 30 minutes after our wall was down. so yea, you think zerging is the only way to make a difference? newsflash, small group can cap most stuff if they know something called Strategy. try it, it works, just take 3 towers and your helping more than a zerg taking a keep. there are plenty of rewards to doing towervs keeps, you can get more exp and karma and money from taking 3 towers, while in a zerg you attract another zerg and they will fight you for hours on end before you take the keep. taking 3 fully upgraded towers in less than 30 minutes. now where does that encourage zerging? where? honestly, zerging is incredibly boring, and not zerging is incredibly fun.

Eclipses.7152:

1. Commander is an absolute mess

I agree with this and the sentiments of your post. I would love to even see a system with a two or three different rank icons (General, Commander, Lieutenant?) that were earned through achievement in WvW. Capturing x number of Keeps/Towers/Supply Camps/Sentry Points and killing x number of Dolyaks/players/guards. I won’t say it’s a perfect concept or thought on it but a place to start. Have the icon be a reward for dedication and playing the game type. Ideally just fixing the way a commander icon is earned is a good first step. But I believe ANet could offer us more tactical flexibility by allowing for different achieveable ranks.

Eclipses.7152:

2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking

I would be happy with map broadcasts on capping and claiming, having the guards at a keep/tower/camp claimed wear the guild emblem and have the guild name in them instead of just “Veteran Guard” have it be "Veteran Guard of <Insert Guild Name Here>. To me that would be a good place to start and an easy enough change to impliment.

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

After the roflstomping of the new Super Servers passed us by Tier 4 has settled into a rather nice balanced match between YB, CD and SBI. Zerg’s are still a tactic, but I don’t feel like our tier is now Zerg on Zerg during prime time. Or at least that it’s not JUST ZvZ. Though I can absolutely see your point in your OP and see how it devolves like that.

Eclipses.7152:

4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence

Thankfully I’m a competative person and winning for the sake of winning is a-ok for me. But I do understand that it isn’t for others. And even though winning for winning is good by me, it would still be nice to see some sort of progression/reward for winning. Hell just balance the income so I don’t have to spend hours farming in PvE and running dungeons to make enough money to support my WvW habbit…

Eclipses.7152:

5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

What can I say other then I feel like a red headed step child…

My Dead Characters.9517:

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

When I first started playing WvW in the BWE’s and the weeks and months after launch, zergs were a valid tactic, a tool to be used, but could be tactically outplayed using coordination. More often than not, at launch the guilds in TA were outnumbered vs the guilds from other alliances, notably Ascension Alliance, due to HoD bandwagoners and queues. I remember going against devastating, brutal zergs; even when you beat them they’d come back again and again knocking on your door over and over and over like a battering ram. Like a heavyweight boxing match they’d just keep bashing you again and again until you felt like you couldn’t take anymore. As soon as you finished the last of a zerg, regrouped and got your bearings – they were on your doorstep again. It was awesome.

Once when our homeworld garrison was occupied by Ascension, my guild and 2 other TA guilds were assigned to take it back. Using about 5 guys to attack Bay and draw swords, the rest of our motley crew hit garrison for all we were worth. Eventually they were too slow getting back to garri and we ninja’d it from them. It was a great feeling.

Eclipses.7152:

I told this long story because the WvW pop has consistently dwindled now to where ZvZ is the only way to play. Sure, you can try to play tactical with a small group and ninja an obj. A zerg can take it faster though. Sure, you can try and defend your only remaining objective on the map with the handful of people you have. A zerg will just ram right through you and your defenses though. Due to culling and the way the maps are designed, a zerg will get to a location just as fast and stealthily as a small tactical group (and maybe even more so).

Zergs even have the advantage in fights vs smaller groups, due to the AoE limitation. The AoE limitation is so utterly idiotic I cannot wrap my head around it. Zergs are a valid tatic – they shouldn’t just be the ONLY tactic. AoE limit needs to be lifted/increased and some other mechanics need to go into place to dull the power of zergs and ecourage more tactical play.

very dumb section of this post, a group of 9 can decimate a group of 30+ if you are smart and know when and where to hold them. as you can see in the picture below, we had 9 arrow carts at a perfect location to defend as we had a choke point. if we had tried to defend at quentin instead of langor we wouldve DEFINITLY been wiped, but we used.. wait for it.. wait for it… STRATEGY afterwards, we retook quentin and proceded to take durios and bravost before the enemy invaders were able to get enough discouraged people to come back and fight for it again, and by that time we had fully upgraded tower, and once again we decimated them. we did this one more time before they took our keep instead, and then trebbed us. we held them off for 30 minutes after our wall was down. so yea, you think zerging is the only way to make a difference? newsflash, small group can cap most stuff if they know something called Strategy. try it, it works, just take 3 towers and your helping more than a zerg taking a keep. there are plenty of rewards to doing towervs keeps, you can get more exp and karma and money from taking 3 towers, while in a zerg you attract another zerg and they will fight you for hours on end before you take the keep. taking 3 fully upgraded towers in less than 30 minutes. now where does that encourage zerging? where? honestly, zerging is incredibly boring, and not zerging is incredibly fun.

Why do arrow carts work vs. zergs?

Because they have a 50-man limit to their AoE, not 5.

The thing is I don’t want to play an arrow cart with its 3 skills, I want to play my character.

Thrumdi.9216:

My Dead Characters.9517:

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

When I first started playing WvW in the BWE’s and the weeks and months after launch, zergs were a valid tactic, a tool to be used, but could be tactically outplayed using coordination. More often than not, at launch the guilds in TA were outnumbered vs the guilds from other alliances, notably Ascension Alliance, due to HoD bandwagoners and queues. I remember going against devastating, brutal zergs; even when you beat them they’d come back again and again knocking on your door over and over and over like a battering ram. Like a heavyweight boxing match they’d just keep bashing you again and again until you felt like you couldn’t take anymore. As soon as you finished the last of a zerg, regrouped and got your bearings – they were on your doorstep again. It was awesome.

Once when our homeworld garrison was occupied by Ascension, my guild and 2 other TA guilds were assigned to take it back. Using about 5 guys to attack Bay and draw swords, the rest of our motley crew hit garrison for all we were worth. Eventually they were too slow getting back to garri and we ninja’d it from them. It was a great feeling.

Eclipses.7152:

I told this long story because the WvW pop has consistently dwindled now to where ZvZ is the only way to play. Sure, you can try to play tactical with a small group and ninja an obj. A zerg can take it faster though. Sure, you can try and defend your only remaining objective on the map with the handful of people you have. A zerg will just ram right through you and your defenses though. Due to culling and the way the maps are designed, a zerg will get to a location just as fast and stealthily as a small tactical group (and maybe even more so).

Zergs even have the advantage in fights vs smaller groups, due to the AoE limitation. The AoE limitation is so utterly idiotic I cannot wrap my head around it. Zergs are a valid tatic – they shouldn’t just be the ONLY tactic. AoE limit needs to be lifted/increased and some other mechanics need to go into place to dull the power of zergs and ecourage more tactical play.

very dumb section of this post, a group of 9 can decimate a group of 30+ if you are smart and know when and where to hold them. as you can see in the picture below, we had 9 arrow carts at a perfect location to defend as we had a choke point. if we had tried to defend at quentin instead of langor we wouldve DEFINITLY been wiped, but we used.. wait for it.. wait for it… STRATEGY afterwards, we retook quentin and proceded to take durios and bravost before the enemy invaders were able to get enough discouraged people to come back and fight for it again, and by that time we had fully upgraded tower, and once again we decimated them. we did this one more time before they took our keep instead, and then trebbed us. we held them off for 30 minutes after our wall was down. so yea, you think zerging is the only way to make a difference? newsflash, small group can cap most stuff if they know something called Strategy. try it, it works, just take 3 towers and your helping more than a zerg taking a keep. there are plenty of rewards to doing towervs keeps, you can get more exp and karma and money from taking 3 towers, while in a zerg you attract another zerg and they will fight you for hours on end before you take the keep. taking 3 fully upgraded towers in less than 30 minutes. now where does that encourage zerging? where? honestly, zerging is incredibly boring, and not zerging is incredibly fun.

Why do arrow carts work vs. zergs?

Because they have a 50-man limit to their AoE, not 5.

The thing is I don’t want to play an arrow cart with its 3 skills, I want to play my character.

I think I might use your quote whenever someone brings up such a stupid argument about zergs again.

Well said.

Eclipses.7152:

Thrumdi.9216:

My Dead Characters.9517:

Eclipses.7152:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

When I first started playing WvW in the BWE’s and the weeks and months after launch, zergs were a valid tactic, a tool to be used, but could be tactically outplayed using coordination. More often than not, at launch the guilds in TA were outnumbered vs the guilds from other alliances, notably Ascension Alliance, due to HoD bandwagoners and queues. I remember going against devastating, brutal zergs; even when you beat them they’d come back again and again knocking on your door over and over and over like a battering ram. Like a heavyweight boxing match they’d just keep bashing you again and again until you felt like you couldn’t take anymore. As soon as you finished the last of a zerg, regrouped and got your bearings – they were on your doorstep again. It was awesome.

Once when our homeworld garrison was occupied by Ascension, my guild and 2 other TA guilds were assigned to take it back. Using about 5 guys to attack Bay and draw swords, the rest of our motley crew hit garrison for all we were worth. Eventually they were too slow getting back to garri and we ninja’d it from them. It was a great feeling.

Eclipses.7152:

I told this long story because the WvW pop has consistently dwindled now to where ZvZ is the only way to play. Sure, you can try to play tactical with a small group and ninja an obj. A zerg can take it faster though. Sure, you can try and defend your only remaining objective on the map with the handful of people you have. A zerg will just ram right through you and your defenses though. Due to culling and the way the maps are designed, a zerg will get to a location just as fast and stealthily as a small tactical group (and maybe even more so).

Zergs even have the advantage in fights vs smaller groups, due to the AoE limitation. The AoE limitation is so utterly idiotic I cannot wrap my head around it. Zergs are a valid tatic – they shouldn’t just be the ONLY tactic. AoE limit needs to be lifted/increased and some other mechanics need to go into place to dull the power of zergs and ecourage more tactical play.

very dumb section of this post, a group of 9 can decimate a group of 30+ if you are smart and know when and where to hold them. as you can see in the picture below, we had 9 arrow carts at a perfect location to defend as we had a choke point. if we had tried to defend at quentin instead of langor we wouldve DEFINITLY been wiped, but we used.. wait for it.. wait for it… STRATEGY afterwards, we retook quentin and proceded to take durios and bravost before the enemy invaders were able to get enough discouraged people to come back and fight for it again, and by that time we had fully upgraded tower, and once again we decimated them. we did this one more time before they took our keep instead, and then trebbed us. we held them off for 30 minutes after our wall was down. so yea, you think zerging is the only way to make a difference? newsflash, small group can cap most stuff if they know something called Strategy. try it, it works, just take 3 towers and your helping more than a zerg taking a keep. there are plenty of rewards to doing towervs keeps, you can get more exp and karma and money from taking 3 towers, while in a zerg you attract another zerg and they will fight you for hours on end before you take the keep. taking 3 fully upgraded towers in less than 30 minutes. now where does that encourage zerging? where? honestly, zerging is incredibly boring, and not zerging is incredibly fun.

Why do arrow carts work vs. zergs?

Because they have a 50-man limit to their AoE, not 5.

The thing is I don’t want to play an arrow cart with its 3 skills, I want to play my character.

I think I might use your quote whenever someone brings up such a stupid argument about zergs again.

Well said.

oh, i see. you want to be a team of 5 that can kill 50 players at a choke point. guess what? that is a horrible idea, even though it encourages zerging, it would not be fair for 5 players to be able to kill 50 players at a time unless they had the willingness to pay for their roflstomps. however, 10 – 15 would be a bit more fair, it would require good teamwork still without making it too OP. 50 should require money to be able to hit that many people, it would hurt too badly, and everyone would roll staff eles and well necros and other aoe builds. i do agree that 5 is much drastically nerfed, but 50 for 1 player is not usnig enough teamwork, using supply wiht you team to make the arrow carts and having the teamwork to use it correctly

I agree with most of what the OP has posted and it does seem to be an accurate reflection of how a lot of the community feels. I sincerely hope the devs take these issues seriously before another MMO comes out that grabs up the less dedicated players.

I find Timezone v Timezone worse than Zerg v Zerg.

Joey.2769:

I 100% agree with you OP. Let us all hope TESO learns from GW2’s mistakes and gives the proper amount of attention to WvW or RvR PvP.

Given that the RvR PVP will be the only form of PvP at launch (no small scale battleground type PvP) I think they will.

6 Years in the making and almost 5 months into the game and at times it still feels like Beta. WvW is an absolute mess in so many ways and i can’t see Anet ever getting to grips with it.

Time to move on.

1. Commander is an absolute mess

I agree the commander system is a mess. I still believe it should cost 100g for then initial Blue Dorito. But after you get a Dorito you should have to work to achieve higher ranks that will modify the way your blue dorito looks.

Maybe a 4-tiered commander system?
- 4th Class Commander:
You spent 100g cool story bro.
- 3rd Class Commander:
You’ve captured X number of towers.
- 2nd Class Commander:
You’ve captured X number of keeps.
- 1st Class Commander:
You’ve captured Stonemist X number of times.

That way players can instantly tell a seasoned veteran commander from a pay-for-gold commander. Some decent commanders will still have to work their way up to higher rank, but you should have to put in the effort to be respected.

2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking

I like some of the things you mentioned

- Guild name on NPC’s of claimed objectives.
- “Guild X has claimed Objective Name” displayed when claiming objectives.
- Ability to see all guild members on map and mini-map. Why not Yellow Dots??

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

It really hasn’t. OP obviously hasn’t played with a small tight group of organized players specifically designed for WvW tactics. You can take objectives, defend objectives, fight zergs with a small 5 man group. You need coordination and strategy. There will always be zergs in any large scale PvP game. You can’t complain about it, you outsmart them. AOE limit has a small part, they should uncap the AOE limit and scale damage down based on how many people are getting hit. But saying that WvW is ZvZ is just griefing because you are getting killed by zergs and don’t know how to play smart.

Eclipses.7152:

The biggest disappointment I feel from WvW is that not only has it cost me the positive impression I had of Arenanet but that it’s cost me my guild.

I put a lot on the line banking that this game type would be sustainable, fun and interesting for the long haul. More than just my money – I put my time into forming a guild, recruiting, personally interviewing every single one of my members to make sure they were the type we were looking for, created a website, images, youtube, twitter, twitch, facebook – all of that.

I guess I took that gamble when creating a guild but kitten if I didn’t think that this game was the one and that Arenanet actually had commitment to their product. This game type’s failure has cost me some friends and that is the biggest disappointment.

This post really makes you (the OP) look like you’re griefing over the fact that your guild didn’t work out. Sorry but it’s not Arena.net’s problem your guild fell apart or your friends got mad at you and left.

Being in one of the top guilds in EU i agree with all but the anti zerg, not that adding options would be bad, not at all, but zergs aint bad, they are fun at top tiers with good commanders and players.

also the coming update was that its got pushed up another month, arent we lucky? and after that its stupid titles that 99% dont care about.. yeay? … im having ok fun, tho the amount of hacking and cheating and abusing right now is straining this abit at the moment..

Its got no sub and thats why people are still playing WvW and im sure most of the other parts of the game..

The single dumbest thing in wvw is the AoE limit. Worst idea ever. Name me one ancient/medical battle where the commander used a ball up un-organized formation and somehow pull off a win. You only see this in GW2 WvW because ball formation somehow reduces AoE damage to everyone around. This is ridiculous.

Second dumbing thing is culling. This once again benefit tight ball formations, since that makes rendering super slow for the enemy. What would seem like a 7 men raid is actually a 40+ men zerg slaughtering you. So ball wins once again.

The third dumbest thing is the inability as a wall defender to hit attackers below. Although you are higher, your field of view is somehow blocked so you cannot hit them below. What are you kidding me? What is the point of that wall then? The defender is in a higher place so they should be able to hit anyone below. That’s the whole point. What is up with this field of view blocked garbage?

I’m going to bump this thread because I know that once 200+ replies get tacked on, Anet will read what we have to say.

I am totally in favor of seeing commander completely revamped. Right now on NSP there seems to be somewhat of a hierarchy where the most experienced commanders order the “buy-ins” to turn their tags off. I am much rather in favor of some arbitrary gold cut off for an initial rank (lieutenant) and then have it go up from their based on experience. The only issue I can see arising with an experience-based rank system is that defending locations/dropped siege/supply used needs to be required in addition to taking locations.

The most effective commanders are the ones who know how to defend a location. The rest are just zerg magnets.

Everything happens too fast and despite their intention of having us watch our characters instead of the UI, at this point we’re all watching our boons and conditions and combo fields hoping our group is the last one standing after the lag spike when two zergs meet when the sparkly particle effects cloud wears off. At no point do I notice cool animations or just enjoy the fight (I was just watching a video someone showed me of the new Neverwinter Nights game and those animations seemed like the perfect pace and it wasn’t all hidden by particle effects). Then, it’s run for ten seconds to the next camp or tower to do it all over again. I pretty much do this to get my dailies done now and log off since w3 isn’t the game world I thought I’d be living in, the whole of w3 just feels like a larger version of spvp mixed with Orr grind.

MRA.4758:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Funny thing: I have only read your tl;dr and I already know that I disagree with each and every of your five points.

WvW is a hellova lot of fun for me already in its current, partially flawed form. Can’t wait for the March update.

Anyways, have fun discussing your points.

~MRA

No one is arguing that WvW isn’t fun. Of course it is fun! But that’s not an excuse to ignore all the huge flaws that WvW have right now.

From a commander’s point of view, WvW is a nightmare right now. All line battle, tactical defence, etc strategy is out the window because of culling, lag and AoE target limit. A zerg of 40+ men in tight ball formation is nearly indestructible because they cannot be seen (render too slow) and they cannot be killed (AoE target limit). Not to mention the huge lags generated when that 40+ men zerg charge at you. The only way to stop them is either have your own 40+ men zerg that do the same thing or have 10 ballistas and acs.

Face to face zerg vs zerg wise, there is literally nothing a commander can do right now. All the commander can do now is say “Stack up on me all” and then “Group stealth now” and then pray for the best. Tight Ball Formation, while being the simplest formation to make, also turns out be the the strongest formation due to culling, lag and AoE limit. This is ruining everything for the commanders. For a smaller zerg, there is no strategy, tactic and bright thinking that can stop a bigger zerg in tight ball formation right now.

I agree with everything you have written.

TBH this is what you get with a game that has no sub. Limited development of key areas.

And let’s get real. The March patch is a joke and does not address anything.

In all honesty, let WvW die. Make EB into a 2-3h 30v30v30 or 50v50v50 mini-game where people play up to a score and its GvGvG. This will stop people from being burnt out, involve less culling, and be more fun – winners get badges and an exotic item, 2nd place badges and a few rares, 3rd place badges and some greens. Bring back some of the other GvG games from Guild Wars 1. Let’s stop the dishonesty and pretending. Anet can not make WvW work properly, at lest take what is good about it and make it more palatable.

@Relentliss – I find this opinion a bit too harsh. Yes, WvW can be improved, and this thread has actually a few really good ideas how to do just that. But overall it’s the best interpretation of a RvR I have ever seen (some say DAoC was better, but I have never played that game). There is no good reason not to incorporate your suggestion to improve the WvW rewards (which I will sign right away!) without killing WvW or turning it into something completed else, like GvG. I am guildless, so I prefer WvW remaining accessible to me, thank you. :p

By all means, bring GvG to this game in -addition- to WvW.

Thrumdi.9216:

Why do arrow carts work vs. zergs?

Because they have a 50-man limit to their AoE, not 5.

The thing is I don’t want to play an arrow cart with its 3 skills, I want to play my character.

+1

Kimyrielle.3826:

@Relentliss – I find this opinion a bit too harsh. Yes, WvW can be improved, and this thread has actually a few really good ideas how to do just that. But overall it’s the best interpretation of a RvR I have ever seen (some say DAoC was better, but I have never played that game). There is no good reason not to incorporate your suggestion to improve the WvW rewards (which I will sign right away!) without killing WvW or turning it into something completed else, like GvG. I am guildless, so I prefer WvW remaining accessible to me, thank you. :p

By all means, bring GvG to this game in -addition- to WvW.

Until they actually improve one single thing in WvW, I will stand by my argument that what they have now is a failure and could be revamped into something that is fun if it was a bit smaller scale.

I predict the March patch will be a let down of massive proportions. And culling will never be fixed so this aspect of the game is tolerable.

Perhaps giving up and looking at making it a fun minigame is the only hope for something interesting to be made of WvW.

Eclipses.7152:

1. Commander is an absolute mess

The implementation of the Commander mechanic is an absolute mess. So let’s get this straight – players who grinded PvE or paid cash for gems > gold (as being an all out WvW participant wouldn’t net you that type of wealth at all) pay 100g and get to lord over other players in WvW? This is ridiculous. I have seen commanders make the absolute kittentiest calls only to get rebuffed when calling them out, because “they’re Commanders.”

Back in beta they were called on over and over again to change this mechanic: require badges instead, or kills, or tower captures – ANYTHING that was actually related to WvW and showed you had experience. We were rebuffed and instead we have a system that discourages the devs to create a guild raid system, encourages inexperienced individuals to lead WvW, encourages zerging and hobbles tactical play and engenders an attitude of petulance that simply because you have a blue icon – you know what’s best.

The WvW devs should honestly be ashamed that Commander is in the game the way that it is right now.

I agree with this point 1000%. The Commander tag is creating a class system in WvW that doesn’t need to be there. The best experiences I have had in my 1000+ hours of WvW have been when there was NO commander in zone and everyone had to work together as EQUALS. I say remove the commander tag completely and give everyone their 100 gold back.

kazi.6438:

I’m going to bump this thread because I know that once 200+ replies get tacked on, Anet will read what we have to say.

Anet seems to suffer from a very severe kind of selective blindness.

kazi.6438:

The most effective commanders are the ones who know how to defend a location. The rest are just zerg magnets.

imho, the commander who are able to keep defenders on a critical location, even if it means going through sometimes prolonged times of inactivity, are sometimes more usefull than the commanders who just move from one location to another to take things and then abandon them and leave them open to recapture 5 mins after taking.

in the past i have been able to counter relic raids ‘in that other game that people always mention in this section’ by letting the enemy capture 6 of our 7 keeps and 28 from our 28 towers and concentrating on keeping ‘lord benowyc’ alive by keeping a force of 50 inside of Caer Benowyc (THE most important keep) for hours and hours.

my orders were simple “i’ll put up my tent next to Lord Benowyc and won’t move from here. as long as i remain alive and Lord Benowyc is safe, the relics are safe.” boring ? for some it was. but as long as i could keep a fair share of the players in Caer Benowyc instead of getting slaughtered in open field and leaving the most important line of defense undefended, it was a very succesfull tactic. But it took me like 3-4 years of playing before people accept a commander who told them to just defend a single keep and stay there even when no enemies had been near for over half an hour.

and at times it ment a high intensity fight that lasted for 3+ hours with one enemy server using dozens of pieces of siege from one side of the keep and the other server using dozens of pieces of siege from the other side of the keep because there was nothing else left that they could take.

WvW for me is still fun especially playing alongside a community I’ve got to know for months but it does get repetitive and the flaws are still there all these months it’s easy to get burnt out.

All too often I’ve seen commanders who have managed to get a 100g who have little tactical knowledge like everyone else and the outmanned buff also is still a joke all these months, so next month all we get is a progression system and all that is anet’s vision for wvw?
They should at least up the AOE limit at the very least but not make it unlimited, like siege has a higher.
Large scale battles are just a mess for a game this generation especially with the culling, I’ve noticed people have such a love/hate relationship with zerg vs zerg (vs Zerg) battles. I’ve also noticed these days you are expected to be a Guardian, Mesmer or Warrior in a zerg and the actual strategy and individual skill to the battles is fairly minimal compared to moving the zerg and other smaller scale tasks but there’s isn’t enough of that and or enough reward just whole lot of pve events especially on Eternal BG.

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Debatable. To be blunt: the people on your server should be able to tell which commanders know what they’re doing, and which don’t, and start ignoring the ones who don’t. If they’re incapable of that (which it sounds like they are from the rest of your posts), you have a bigger problem than bad commanders. Also, switching to kill count wouldn’t necessarily make them any better at tactical decision making, and badges could just mean they’re good at the jumping puzzles. At least with how it is now you know they care enough about wvw to drop 100g of their own money on a tag. Granted, caring enough to drop 100g and being good at tactical decision making don’t go hand in hand, but I really don’t know how they can ensure a person “deserves” a commander tag.

2. Also debatable. A server with multiple wvw guilds hitting separate objectives at the same time will generally have success against a server moving as one giant blob. People generally give props to guilds that impress them on the opposing server in the wvw forums. It’s not specifically coded into the game, but guilds definitely have a role, and good guilds get recognition from other players. Guilds don’t really get a huge reward out of any aspect of the game, but wvw is one of the better places to get influence (the only real guild “reward” available).

3. You’re mostly right on this one. However, a zerg will generally get annihilated by a similarly sized (or smaller, within reason) coordinated group that knows what it’s doing. Obviously a guild group of 5 stands no chance against a zerg of 50, but a guild group of 20-30 can wipe a zerg of 50 fairly easily. Much like #1, it’s largely a l2p issue on the part of the community. Guilds that choose to l2p annihilate larger zergs who choose not to.

Basically, if a server does nothing but zerg, their opponents can do the same and not have an issue. If a server gets its act together and stops zerging, their opponent has to do the same or get obliterated. The scoreboard is more a measure of coverage, so a coordinated server may not end up in tier 1, but they would definitely do significantly better than they do as one (or 2, or 3) massive uncoordinated zerg(s).

4. Supposed to be addressing that in the patch next month, but currently pretty much spot on. I personally don’t care, since killing people is its own reward to me, but that’s irrelevant.

5. Also spot on. I don’t think they’ve changed anything aside from the worst of the exploits (people jumping into pretty much any keep or tower without breaking down any walls or doors). There are STILL people FLYING in WvW. Really guys?

JStyle.1423:

3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)

It really hasn’t. OP obviously hasn’t played with a small tight group of organized players specifically designed for WvW tactics. You can take objectives, defend objectives, fight zergs with a small 5 man group. You need coordination and strategy. There will always be zergs in any large scale PvP game. You can’t complain about it, you outsmart them. AOE limit has a small part, they should uncap the AOE limit and scale damage down based on how many people are getting hit. But saying that WvW is ZvZ is just griefing because you are getting killed by zergs and don’t know how to play smart.

Eclipses.7152:

The biggest disappointment I feel from WvW is that not only has it cost me the positive impression I had of Arenanet but that it’s cost me my guild.

I put a lot on the line banking that this game type would be sustainable, fun and interesting for the long haul. More than just my money – I put my time into forming a guild, recruiting, personally interviewing every single one of my members to make sure they were the type we were looking for, created a website, images, youtube, twitter, twitch, facebook – all of that.

I guess I took that gamble when creating a guild but kitten if I didn’t think that this game was the one and that Arenanet actually had commitment to their product. This game type’s failure has cost me some friends and that is the biggest disappointment.

This post really makes you (the OP) look like you’re griefing over the fact that your guild didn’t work out. Sorry but it’s not Arena.net’s problem your guild fell apart or your friends got mad at you and left.

I haven’t played in a small tight knit group of organized players? Maybe you missed the part where I said I was a guild leader of a mid size WvW guild? I know how to lead large, midsize and small tactical parties. That doesn’t change the fact that zergs can do whatever they can do and better.

My guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out. Almost all of the guild of the Alliance I was in (close to ~ 14 or so guilds) have all left the game or have lost lots of members. Not because they were bad guilds, not because the members got mad at their leaders – but because WvW failed to live up to their promises due to the points I have outlined.

100g is not a lot of money. When I see a blue tag I don’t say “Gee, that guy really cares about WvW”, I say “Gee, that idiot paid 100g for something that adds zero benefit to WvW”

Terra Dactyl.2047:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Debatable. To be blunt: the people on your server should be able to tell which commanders know what they’re doing, and which don’t, and start ignoring the ones who don’t. If they’re incapable of that (which it sounds like they are from the rest of your posts), you have a bigger problem than bad commanders. Also, switching to kill count wouldn’t necessarily make them any better at tactical decision making, and badges could just mean they’re good at the jumping puzzles. At least with how it is now you know they care enough about wvw to drop 100g of their own money on a tag. Granted, caring enough to drop 100g and being good at tactical decision making don’t go hand in hand, but I really don’t know how they can ensure a person “deserves” a commander tag.

This part of my post is misunderstood. It’s not simply about Bad Commander/Good Commander. It’s about how poorly the system was designed. Kill count, badges and the like wouldn’t have been a full proof way no, but it would have ensured that the person was at least experienced in the ways of WvW.

It could have been a mixture of all 3:

- Badges
- Kills
- Tower / Supply Camp / Keep captures

And that would have wholly ensured that whoever had the title was experienced in WvW to a basic degree at the very least.

Moreover, the point I’m really trying to make with that complaint is the fact that the current Commander mechanic is utterly atrocious for group management.

You can’t make it private.
You can’t set lts.
It discourages them from creating a guild squad system.

The Commander feature totally disincentivizes a mid-large size grouping mechanic in the game that’s workable for guild and parties larger than 5. It’s atrocious.

on the subject of commander tags.

maybe a player should be able to tag another player (and untag and switch it it someone else or be able to tag multiple players) as commander. so you can follow the player you ACCEPT as commander more easely.

that would work amazing for guilds with more than 5 members in the field but don’t want ‘randoms’ to follow them and it would allow people to go ‘hey, that guy seems to know what he’s doing, i’m going to tag him as a commander so i can follow/keep up with him’.

While i dont feel that WvW is as ‘flawed’ as some people make it out to be, i do feel that WvW is the true meta game in gw2 and as such it is not getting anywhere near the attention that it should be.

Beyondthelol.9504:

While i dont feel that WvW is as ‘flawed’ as some people make it out to be, i do feel that WvW is the true meta game in gw2 and as such it is not getting anywhere near the attention that it should be.

for some people it is not the end game. for some people it is the ONLY game. logging in and seeing a queue on all 4 (4 ??? 1+ 3*1 more like it) borderlands only differs from having the server offline or being stuck on character selection because i can talk in guild chat.

how would pve players react if they logged in and found themselves in LA with a queue for all pve maps and all dungeons/fractals ?

muylaetrix.2096:

Beyondthelol.9504:

While i dont feel that WvW is as ‘flawed’ as some people make it out to be, i do feel that WvW is the true meta game in gw2 and as such it is not getting anywhere near the attention that it should be.

for some people it is not the end game. for some people it is the ONLY game. logging in and seeing a queue on all 4 (4 ??? 1+ 3*1 more like it) borderlands only differs from having the server offline or being stuck on character selection because i can talk in guild chat.

how would pve players react if they logged in and found themselves in LA with a queue for all pve maps and all dungeons/fractals ?

Um, pretty bad?

Commanders should have been done like this:
Everyone can start a squad and has access to /squadinfo /supplyinfo

If you are in that squad, you see a blue commander icon over the leader’s head and on the map.
If there are 25+ people in the squad, a red commander icon is visible to everyone on the map and over their head.
If there are 50+ people in squad, a golden commander icon is visible to everyone on the map and over their head.

Right clicking a Commander Icon on the map should give you the option to Hide the Icon on map (but remain visible in game) and to join squad.

Basically, let merit and ability to lead speak for itself.

Fact – every word of what the OP said is 100% true.

I played Dark Age of Camelot for 8 years. I still think about going back because of how amazingly fun it was. I played GW2 for 3 months, and I had to MAKE myself do it for the hopes of WvW improvements. I have quit now for a few weeks, and I still sit here and watch as people “hope for improvements”. Maybe in 2-3 years at the current rate enough will change to make WvW worth actually playing…but that is a long time to wait.

Erlex.4518:

Fact – every word of what the OP said is 100% true.

I played Dark Age of Camelot for 8 years. I still think about going back because of how amazingly fun it was. I played GW2 for 3 months, and I had to MAKE myself do it for the hopes of WvW improvements. I have quit now for a few weeks, and I still sit here and watch as people “hope for improvements”. Maybe in 2-3 years at the current rate enough will change to make WvW worth actually playing…but that is a long time to wait.

don’t worry the next update was due this month no wait next month scratch that the update will come out in 3 months

Eclipses.7152:

My guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out. Almost all of the guild of the Alliance I was in (close to ~ 14 or so guilds) have all left the game or have lost lots of members. Not because they were bad guilds, not because the members got mad at their leaders – but because WvW failed to live up to their promises due to the points I have outlined.

So if your guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out, then why is it that there are so many other guilds that are having fun and thriving doing small 10-15 man WvW group tactics? I would say to try joining one of those guilds on IoJ, but I know a lot of them moved to Fort Aspenwood.

JStyle.1423:

Eclipses.7152:

My guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out. Almost all of the guild of the Alliance I was in (close to ~ 14 or so guilds) have all left the game or have lost lots of members. Not because they were bad guilds, not because the members got mad at their leaders – but because WvW failed to live up to their promises due to the points I have outlined.

So if your guild didn’t work out because the game didn’t work out, then why is it that there are so many other guilds that are having fun and thriving doing small 10-15 man WvW group tactics? I would say to try joining one of those guilds on IoJ, but I know a lot of them moved to Fort Aspenwood.

I would love to talk to one of these “thriving” guilds. Every guild I talk to complains about all the older players bailing and new players coming in and complaining about everything sucking and being pointless. Probably because everything IS pointless in WvW. Its like a little league basketball game, everyone wins and everyone gets a trophy….I think most of us out grew that somewhere around age 5. (most of us…)

Erlex.4518:

I would love to talk to one of these “thriving” guilds. Every guild I talk to complains about all the older players bailing and new players coming in and complaining about everything sucking and being pointless. Probably because everything IS pointless in WvW. Its like a little league basketball game, everyone wins and everyone gets a trophy….I think most of us out grew that somewhere around age 5. (most of us…)

It’s really not hard. Run around WvW and look for a bunch of ppl with the same guild tag. /w one of them and ask them about their guild. Maybe consider joining

Great post OP
100%

My Dead Characters.9517:

oh, i see. you want to be a team of 5 that can kill 50 players at a choke point. guess what? that is a horrible idea, even though it encourages zerging, it would not be fair for 5 players to be able to kill 50 players at a time unless they had the willingness to pay for their roflstomps. however, 10 – 15 would be a bit more fair, it would require good teamwork still without making it too OP. 50 should require money to be able to hit that many people, it would hurt too badly, and everyone would roll staff eles and well necros and other aoe builds. i do agree that 5 is much drastically nerfed, but 50 for 1 player is not usnig enough teamwork, using supply wiht you team to make the arrow carts and having the teamwork to use it correctly

If you are talking about 5 players killing a 50man zerg in an open world battle, then sorry to say this but those 50 would deserve a horrible ingame death, if you are talking about attacking a tower with 50 ppl, with 5 defending, then history tells us that 5 man on the walls are worth atleast 40 underneath it. (except in gw2 wvwvw)

+1 to the OP btw, agree with most of it

Eclipses.7152:

WARNING: LONG POST, but worth it. see TL;DR for major points
TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Yes, commander for Wv3 should be earned in Wv3, especially with very low rewards form Wv3 opposed to anything in PvE getting 100g is exponentionally harder in Wv3. Though its not that big a deal, you soon learn who bad commaders are and community will judge.

2. While there might be some more recogntion for guilds, more rewards – no. Its server effort, not guild effort, and you might look up after what “Guild wars” was named after.

Better grouping options/bigger groups are pretty valid request, think that 4 groups/5 people would be sufficient (basically raid group)

3. Basically what you are saying that zergs learned some stuff and aint headless chicken or loot pinata they used to be. I think thats a good thing. Theres still places for smaller groups, but if you expect that 5 man group somehow “outmanuvers” 50 man group of same/similar skill, it aint happening.

4. Anything that gives power the longer you play is out of question really. Progression can be implemented but devs have to be VERY careful about how they go around that. Having unattainable advnatage over other players just because you played for 1 year is a big no no.
And as far as i see it, Wv3 was never designed to be some ultra deep RvR like EvE but fast paced action where you can jump in a and out without much trouble, objective trade ownership relatively easily and again fast paced, maps are decent size and it doesnt take forever to get somewhere….. It does that wonderfully.

Oh, and Wv3 rewards need to be increased drastically, disparity with PvE isnt even funny as we are looking at 10-20 times bigger rewards for PvE. That just isnt right.

5. Im all for more commitment, but i also want changes/additions to be good and really add to the fun instead of some rushed low quality stuff. I played SWTOR and their implementation of “faction conflict” was abysmal, they reworked it withing 2 months and they made it even worse, then after 3 months it has been completely removed and still nothing on the horizon regarding that. Really dont want to see that kind of stuff here again.

This has been an on going problem since release . we see events that cater to pve casual players , we see nothing in regards to wvw except breakout events and that is to make everything all better .

when i did my research for gw2 wvw systems i saw a lot of good things and things that had potential but the one big glaring issue that made me know right away that this game would suffer is that when it comes to wvw . arena net thought of the concept as an after thought because they knew very well the game as a pve with the side order of spvp would not be enough to draw people to play the game

take daoc for example . their system was straight forward . they had realm ranks for character progression and they had darkness falls . for a time it was not only rewarding to do rvr in that game but it was the END GAME . that is why people played daoc . but once trials of atlantis came out daoc became a shell of a game that it once was because then players could get the armor or weapons that was better than you could get from darkness falls .

when i look at guild wars 2 , i see no darkness falls , i see no character progression such as realm ranks . i see no incentive for players to participate in wvw at all unless they were the few ones that wanted their legendary . and after they did that what then ? are they now to make another character and do it all over again or wait until arena net comes out with an expansion so that they can get new abilities for their characters .
i think arena net has got the messages and they know this and are working hard big time to fix this enigma . but it all depends on the "higher ups " if they are getting the message and are listening because their lack of concern or even acknowledgement to this ordeal has been quite showing when they do not post on the very same boards we use to encourage us . keep us motivated , im all for the waiting game , what im not for is apathy from arena net .

To be honest it took me a while but i finally figured out this exact same answer as the threads topic. First off WvW for me is the only decent content available for end game.. Anyone who has a level 80 with 100% map completion already knows that there is only so much content you can repeat before getting bored. I have done all the maps, all the hearts etc and I have no need to repeat these, I also have no need to role a huge amount of alts to keep me occupied when I actually don’t enjoy the other classes other than Necro (I know glutton for punishment).

I could go do Dungeon runs but at this level rather than being able to savour the dungeon and take it in fully. The pace at which you run dungeons are more like a 100m sprint than anything else. I spend alot of my time in WvW and never got to do the dungeons until recently, but I cant take in the cut scenes or story when any group your in automatically exits the cut scene and legs it, so you basically have to do the same. When running the gauntlet gets boring which it does your really left with WvW its the only place that I felt changes and provides an experience that you do not know what to expect. Recently though I have seen WvW for what it actually is, it will never be an area about skill that is apparent that is saved for tPVP or sPVP. It is at times about tactics but alot of the time its running around in a zerg and the higher up you go the more this is required as even camp taking teams are of huge numbers so the small skirmishes slowly start to diminish. I just don’t see any fun in this combat, zerg combat for the most doesn’t tend to last long, you either rush head long or portal into them and kill most of them in seconds or you get demolished by similar tactics. What fun is there to be had its not skill its spamming skills and if your lucky you survived if your unlucky your dead.

WvW is not about the fun fights anymore, because it is a points game and everyone is looking to play the points system. Try having a fun long battle for a keep and then notice how much of your camps and keeps have suddenly been flipped. So fun goes out the window and its more about rushing between points and quickly taking stuff to get those points ticking up. I have been in alot of really fun fights at keeps which are long tactical battles but once they reach a certain time people leave because that’s what happens in WvW when it takes too long, because keeps and camps are being flipped its not about having fun in a long battle its about flipping those towers, keeps and camps quickly. If you start losing too many its better to cut your losses and go start taking them back. The higher you go in WvW the more evident that the glaring issue’s start to occur. How with each patch WvW still remains stagnant and the gameplay is getting worse. Numerous exploits still remain and at the same time new ones are starting to become evident. Large battles have now went from having lag only when a huge amount of fighting goes on to now medium sized battles are getting horrendous skill lag. Culling which I know is a hard thing to fix still doesn’t seem to be getting better, we all see the latest fix but all they done was flip the coin. Instead of enemies disappearing we now have our friendlies disappearing. Not only making it harder to play with your team because they are disappearing when there isn’t even an enemy in sight.

The imbalances in WvW are pretty evident and this can be seen by the fact that mostly everyone is rolling the same classes now. But with WvW its about having alot more people in each of the maps. Its even about the number of people you can have around the clock. Other than ply yourself with plenty of coffee prop those match sticks in your eyes and decide to become a hermit there is nothing that can be done when your coverage in the early hours of the morning arent upto scratch. If you cant then you can see a huge lead diminish in a matter of a day or 2 and to be honest I applaud that sense of dedication because at the end of the day the reward for winning is…nothing…well pride but try spending those pride points on anything in game. So I asked myself the question..Is WvW fun anymore? And the conclusion I got was NO. Its not fun anymore, its becoming more and more predictable, its stagnant and exploits are more frequent at higher level. The gameplay in WvW is now worse than it ever was with the new patch, and server imbalances are evident and I don’t see how they are going to balance themselves out. I see people getting bored and I will see them leaving but in order for there to be balance the ones higher up need to have more folk leave than the ones below. I shall wish everyone in the WvW community all the best and I hope the game turns out the way you deserve it to be. For myself my time is up, ive waited for too long for something to happen and with the severe lack of info, lack of basic fixes, lack of patching exploits that have been around for ages.

I think the thing most of you are missing what the OP said is the map size, imagine is the maps were 1.5-2x their current size and had alot more small objectives that were important enough for small groups to fight over yet not really worth the time for the ‘zerg’ to go after constantly

I haven’t logged in to play WvW in weeks now, even though usually it’s one of my favorite gameplay types. This is largely due to the point mechanics.

Like mentioned in the OP, I’d rather see big guild vs. guild battles. World announcements and bonuses when SM gets taken. Scrap the points and hide them behind the scenes. Animosity, grudges, rivalries, Guild vs. Guild are the exciting things in WvW, not server point tallies. It seems there are more rivalries on the forums than in-game.

I agree also that WvW is the worst gold sink in the game, and that’s really not fair. If anyone can fix it though, it’s ANet. Here’s hoping to see some bigger ideas in the future after they make some headway with the engine, and the culling mechanic.

/agree. WvW is terrible and i hate that I need it for a legenedary weapon. Support classes are IGNORED. No badges of honor for healing done, boons given, nothing. Nothing at all. Play support and your ignored by developers. Developers ignore support types. Ect. Where are all of the badges of honor for the damage I’ve prevented as a guardian? I Suppose i should have picked up those at the stupid jumping puzzles before I decided to help out all the overpowered mezmers and theifs get theirs…

I play almost only WvW in GW2, while I agree that things should be better don’t forget that WvW is successfull atm andI have the feeling that devs are very careful about not breaking the current game mechanisms like it happened with Starwars Online : they don’t want to screw their game.

Agree with everything said.

The state of WvWvW right now is that of “a good start”

Thats the state it should be in during the BETA. The game has been out for half a year now, and wvwvw is not any better.

In fact, its gotten worse. Zergs are worse now than at the start, culling is worse now than at the start, incentive and enjoyment to play is worse now, than at the start.

The devs should be ashamed at the state of WvWvW. Its clear their focus is sPvP for the esports factor.

The answers and solutions to the problems with WvW are out there, clear as day. This isnt an issue of the devs not knowing what to do, but rather, them simply not doing it.

Dont make gameplay that your own game cant support. Thats what the gist of WvW is at the moment.

At this point, id settle for something in between spvp and wvw. Maps that are half as big as WvW, with a population cap, and much fewer objectives. Dont get rid of wvw, but give those of us who want smaller, organized open world pvp, an option.

Nethod.7068:

/agree. WvW is terrible and i hate that I need it for a legenedary weapon. Support classes are IGNORED. No badges of honor for healing done, boons given, nothing. Nothing at all. Play support and your ignored by developers. Developers ignore support types. Ect. Where are all of the badges of honor for the damage I’ve prevented as a guardian? I Suppose i should have picked up those at the stupid jumping puzzles before I decided to help out all the overpowered mezmers and theifs get theirs…

I got to agree with this. Since necros are so horrible at damage I had to (not that I wanted to) switch over to a more support role. But there is no badges at all for buffing/healing allies or debuffing enemies.

I hope they either give more rewards for team support classes, or fix all these class imbalances so I can switch back to a damage role.

The biggest fail in WvW is the commander system.
100g req made it so that most commander are either rich spoiled kids, pve players and the like.
And this cannot be undone because I cannot see Anet “undoing” commander status to everyone and remake the system better.
So we’re stuck with WvW chat being a circlejerking comedy of people who bought blue icon and seeing commanders waste people to zerg mindlessly or worse.