Guild Wars 2

Aberrant.6749:

You get immediate damage with power/pre/crit dmg. You can only mitigate it with toughness.

or vitality, control, drop target, healing. Basically stop or slow the enemy and mitigate the damage.

Aberrant.6749:

With conds you do your damage over a longer period of time. You can mitigate it with condition removal and condition duration reduction.

Only vitality, condi removal and maybe healing. Controlling or slowing the enemy will not mitigate condi damage. It can actually make it worse.

I am not saying it is OP but it has been a while since we have seen relatively high solo DPS from bunkery builds. It is somewhat odd that defensive abilities (interrupt) are coupled with potentially heavy condi damage.

I haven’t had to adjust my builds this much to handle the current turn in WvW builds in a long time. In some cases, not sure how to adjust them. Maybe it was long overdue but the D/P thief is a minor nuisance compared to some of these condi engineers or TorFear condi necros.

cond builds were always strong, torment and all the new runes are taking it to uh ok? Proportions. People do too much dmg in wvw already…. didn’t need all this ascended armor and other crap goin on

CrassBippy.4619:

cond builds were always strong, torment and all the new runes are taking it to uh ok? Proportions. People do too much dmg in wvw already…. didn’t need all this ascended armor and other crap goin on

If it makes you feel any better, the ascended armor will have much more dramatic effect on the stats of zerker players who see their damage directly increased by all 3 armor stats.

Condition users on the other hand will get a marginal boost to condition damage, and nothing else. Even when they introduce ascended weapons with higher base damage, condition users will get little to no direct benefit, except for again, the marginal increase in condition damage.

Condition damage has some seriously liabilities, and while in certain circumstances (epidemic/teams stacking condition damage) it can be very powerful, it is always going to be limited in WvW by the downed mechanic, which can clear a full stack of conditions, right before an impending rally. A series of hits from a large group of zerker players will instead just kill you outright.

If anything, the most overpowered thing about conditions right now is immobilize and chill, which hard counter stability. Without sufficient removal you will just picked apart from range.

titanlectro.5029:

Atherakhia.4086:

On top of that, not every class has a dispel.

Umm… No
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Every class has condition removal. Not every class has the same level of condition removal, but not every class can make a viable condition/tank either. If everything could counter condi/tank, then it would be underpowered.

The counter for condi/tank is a balanced build, with good condi-removal/sustain and some damage. For example, a well built DD ele could easily hard counter a condi/tank necro.

Yes but not all classes can have enough access to these dispels with out making huge sacrifices to the point its not worth it. In order to build a mesmer with enough dispels to deal with a condition necro, it becomes practically useless.

Straegen.2938:

Aberrant.6749:

You get immediate damage with power/pre/crit dmg. You can only mitigate it with toughness.

or vitality, control, drop target, healing. Basically stop or slow the enemy and mitigate the damage.

Aberrant.6749:

With conds you do your damage over a longer period of time. You can mitigate it with condition removal and condition duration reduction.

Only vitality, condi removal and maybe healing. Controlling or slowing the enemy will not mitigate condi damage. It can actually make it worse.

I am not saying it is OP but it has been a while since we have seen relatively high solo DPS from bunkery builds. It is somewhat odd that defensive abilities (interrupt) are coupled with potentially heavy condi damage.

I haven’t had to adjust my builds this much to handle the current turn in WvW builds in a long time. In some cases, not sure how to adjust them. Maybe it was long overdue but the D/P thief is a minor nuisance compared to some of these condi engineers or TorFear condi necros.

Controlling/slowing the opponent certainly will lower their ability to apply the conditions just as much as it would Vs. direct damage.

I think you’re thinking about this from just a mele pov?

Conditions do tend to be applied at range, but there are many that are only able to be applied in mele range.

There is also ranged direct damage which would suffer just as much as ranged conditions from being slowed/controlled.

Conditons are a lot weaker in group settings than they are in solo play. Maybe if we can find a way to balance conditions to make them weaker in 1v1 situations and more viable in group situations it could remain fair for both sides.

(conditions are weak in small group to zerg play because of the amount of aoe condi clear).

I wish that was true Draygo. Unfortunately in reality up to 8-10 players having several condi players is very very strong. Above 10 is where DD takes over.

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

Conditions definitly seem to be the flavor build of the month. But honestly reading through some of the postings in this thread makes me wonder if people think they should be able to cleanse every condition all the time.

I mean I keep seeing things like:
“Conditions can be re-applied too quickly”, “can’t keep them cleansed”

I mean 25 stacks of confusion is a big problem granted, but you should be built to walk around with 5 stacks of bleed and 1 stack of poison. On my toons I do not even bother cleansing them anymore. I just save the CD for something major like Confusion stacks, or Torment, or both coupled with 10 other conditions.

If not then you will be hurting in WvW these days for sure lol.

Alchemist.3692:

sinject.4607:

Bacon Please.8407:

Just because you have great gear doesnt mean you will do well. However. Currently there is no counter to raw condition damage, there is no – Condition damage even though I believe there should. Conditions are very hard to counter as it is very set up and I have had to buy Holebrak runes and Melandru runes just to play a Power build which is not even on par with condition builds. Conditions need to be looked at, if it is mitigation of damage through toughness (to a certain percent cap) or changing how they are applied or granting immunity to certain conditions after they have been clensed for a short time. Something has to happen because nearly ever player I have encountered is running a condition face roll build. It is getting a bit stale.

I’m fully aware that the gear is only as good as the player wearing it; but i mentioned it because i know some idiot would mention something about glass builds and whatnot. But yeah i agree with everything else.

Xsorus.2507:

Sinjet don’t forget D/P Thieves, very overpowered spec in WvW if played properly.

Same with S/D

d/p and s/d are not overpowered at all. Thief is generally only overpowered to players who legitimately cannot counter them through skill; other than that thief is decently balanced and excels in what it is designed to do.

lol do you play a thief? p/d thieves are so op right now. stacking torment, and confusion… plus perma stealth.. .It’s very tough to counter…. it’s become the meta for thieves right now. It’s not an issue with skill when you get two stacks of torment ticking away 5k+ of hp, and if you want to halve that dmg you gotta stand still… imagine that – standing still while fighting a thief. lol it’s completely imbalanced unless you run a condition clearing class.

D/P =/= P/D (tbh, I’m not sure why D/P or S/D thieves were brought up though, as they are not condition builds…)

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

If you think condi is balanced in this game LOL

Not arguing with ppl who want easy cheese for pvp.

Aberrant.6749:

Controlling/slowing the opponent certainly will lower their ability to apply the conditions just as much as it would Vs. direct damage.

Once a condition is applied, nothing a player can do to mitigate it. They can mitigate conditions being applied but usually it is too late to be offensive minded once conditioned. Cleansing is best but typically on big cool downs and usually random removal which often doesn’t pick best one to remove is all that is left.

Aberrant.6749:

I think you’re thinking about this from just a mele pov? Conditions do tend to be applied at range, but there are many that are only able to be applied in mele range.

Doesn’t really matter melee or ranged. Some such as perplexity are completely defensive… 5 stacks of confusion from an interrupt. Others are wells/marks are also defensive. Range is better but range also brings significantly less damage output on many classes.

Aberrant.6749:

There is also ranged direct damage which would suffer just as much as ranged conditions from being slowed/controlled.

Nope… toughness mitigates direct damage. Condition does not get mitigated from toughness. An opponents only ability to manage it is to swap skills/traits for condition removal which puts them at a disadvantage against the other 80% of the players out there.

I am not saying it is broken (yet) but it is very powerful. It certainly doesn’t help that it isn’t in the combat log, much of the condi removal is random and the damage applied is frequently coming from hardened builds.

Jinks.2057:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

If you think condi is balanced in this game LOL

Not arguing with ppl who want easy cheese for pvp.

WAAAAAAHHH! My Warrior isn’t OP enough… WAAAAAAHHH!!!

But seriously. Get some condition removal, man up and L2P.

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

hi I rolled all of the above
on all 3 classes I have less than half the time on my guardian. Im also really good on my guardian. Howver with the exception of going against high burst on my engi, I can easily win almost every single 1v1 using the above 3 condi builds.
maybe you’re the one who should try to roll a melee DD build and try to fight a condi spam build (protip, except for specced warrs, you can’t)

I also kittening Lol’d when you said “play defensively” against condis. that’s step one to getting your kitten whooped HARD.

Darek.1836:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

hi I rolled all of the above
on all 3 classes I have less than half the time on my guardian. Im also really good on my guardian. Howver with the exception of going against high burst on my engi, I can easily win almost every single 1v1 using the above 3 condi builds.
maybe you’re the one who should try to roll a melee DD build and try to fight a condi spam build (protip, except for specced warrs, you can’t)

I also kittening Lol’d when you said “play defensively” against condis. that’s step one to getting your kitten whooped HARD.

Why would I want to? I don’t care about your profession, I like my main. Besides, if you weren’t so worried about your DPS, you might be able to stack condition clearing. So cute when you DD Melee types can’t be bothered to use anything but DPS gear. Lol.

I know who you are, Moobs, and your tears taste delicious.

Again, the Meta exists because you have Incredible Burst on a select few classes, When a Warrior can stun you every 7.5 seconds for 4 seconds, and do you entire health bar with 100b’s if you’re anything less then 100% bunker, you pretty much have to go 100% Bunker. Even then, Some classes can still instant kill you if you’re not careful. I’ve eaten 7000+ damage backstabs and 4000+ Cloak and Daggers instantly…. with a 100% bunker build…

If I’d been anything else then that, I’d be dead…

There is no amount of dodging you can do that’ll let you ignore things like instant teleports and stuns in every 7.5 seconds..

yeah condi builds win by attrition, so you don’t want to prolong the fight, you win early or you get away.

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

If you think condi is balanced in this game LOL

Not arguing with ppl who want easy cheese for pvp.

WAAAAAAHHH! I just wanna be OP enough… WAAAAAAHHH!!!

But seriously I’m tired of getting killed and really need this to up my kitten

LOL

Well I just found out something disturbing that I could do with runes of perplexity. respecced my thief so I had as much initiative regen as possible ignoring everything else, spam headshot over and over again. Instant win. You don’t have to dodge or stealth or anything. No matter how many condition cleanses your opponent has, they will NEVER be able to get the confusion off of themselves and they will die no matter whakittens kind of funny watching someone struggle and die just from healing and be able to do absolutely nothing about it while I literally just stand there and press 1 button, but this is kind of ridiculous. Those runes need a serious nerf. they need a 30-60 sec cooldown on how often they proc confusion. Keeping a constant steam of confusion on people and making it impossible for them to take any action whatsoever without dying from it is really overpowered.

Nikkinella.8254:

Well I just found out something disturbing that I could do with runes of perplexity. respecced my thief so I had as much initiative regen as possible ignoring everything else, spam headshot over and over again. Instant win. You don’t have to dodge or stealth or anything. No matter how many condition cleanses your opponent has, they will NEVER be able to get the confusion off of themselves and they will die no matter whakittens kind of funny watching someone struggle and die just from healing and be able to do absolutely nothing about it while I literally just stand there and press 1 button, but this is kind of ridiculous. Those runes need a serious nerf. they need a 30-60 sec cooldown on how often they proc confusion. Keeping a constant steam of confusion on people and making it impossible for them to take any action whatsoever without dying from it is really overpowered.

Do nothing else?

So what are you going to do when you fight a class with Stability?

Xsorus.2507:

Nikkinella.8254:

Well I just found out something disturbing that I could do with runes of perplexity. respecced my thief so I had as much initiative regen as possible ignoring everything else, spam headshot over and over again. Instant win. You don’t have to dodge or stealth or anything. No matter how many condition cleanses your opponent has, they will NEVER be able to get the confusion off of themselves and they will die no matter whakittens kind of funny watching someone struggle and die just from healing and be able to do absolutely nothing about it while I literally just stand there and press 1 button, but this is kind of ridiculous. Those runes need a serious nerf. they need a 30-60 sec cooldown on how often they proc confusion. Keeping a constant steam of confusion on people and making it impossible for them to take any action whatsoever without dying from it is really overpowered.

Do nothing else?

So what are you going to do when you fight a class with Stability?

Wait for it to expire?

The perplexity runes whine threads are that way ====>

Xsorus.2507:

Do nothing else?

So what are you going to do when you fight a class with Stability?

Perhaps you just BP—>HS and go invis for as long as you want to wait it out? You don’t even have to change weapon sets.

OP starts off by stating that it’s not a L2p issue and that people who say as such are just people who use the crutch mechanic. Op then states in their next post that when it comes to countering thieves, it’s a L2p issue.

Considering the hypocricy between the two posts, I have come to the conclusion that the OP is a thief who has trouble only against condition builds.

For which I will simply say. Too bad. L2p.

Straegen.2938:

Once a condition is applied, nothing a player can do to mitigate it.

Condition removal. Yes it’s random but think of how much damage you’re potentially able to stop after the fact it’s already been applied.

Straegen.2938:

Doesn’t really matter melee or ranged. Some such as perplexity are completely defensive… 5 stacks of confusion from an interrupt. Others are wells/marks are also defensive. Range is better but range also brings significantly less damage output on many classes.

As far as how much you can prevent… it does matter. If it’s mele range only you can use things like cripple/immobilize to reduce the damage while staying in non-mele range and pew pew them. I perplexity isn’t just defensive… not by a longshot… and needs some tweaking.

Aberrant.6749:

There is also ranged direct damage which would suffer just as much as ranged conditions from being slowed/controlled.

Straegen.2938:

Nope… toughness mitigates direct damage. Condition does not get mitigated from toughness. An opponents only ability to manage it is to swap skills/traits for condition removal which puts them at a disadvantage against the other 80% of the players out there.

^has nothing to do with what I said. You can also quickly open up inven an pop anti-condition duration foods. You don’t need to even run around with it on you all the time if you don’t want to build against conditions…which if you think you will be you really should. It’s all apart of setting up your character for WvW.

Straegen.2938:

I am not saying it is broken (yet) but it is very powerful. It certainly doesn’t help that it isn’t in the combat log, much of the condi removal is random and the damage applied is frequently coming from hardened builds.

IMO they were underpowered before. But I’ve plaid extensively on both sides of this and find it pretty balanced overall (outside of perplexity).

The fact that there is a dichotomy between Condi Builds and then Perplexity Builds speaks volumes.

BlackBeard.2873:

Xsorus.2507:

Do nothing else?

So what are you going to do when you fight a class with Stability?

Perhaps you just BP—>HS and go invis for as long as you want to wait it out? You don’t even have to change weapon sets.

So he is going to do something else….

Glad we cleared that up.

Jinks.2057:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

If you think condi is balanced in this game LOL

Not arguing with ppl who want easy cheese for pvp.

WAAAAAAHHH! I just wanna be OP enough… WAAAAAAHHH!!!

But seriously I’m tired of getting killed and really need this to up my kitten

LOL I love quoting out of context and whining on the forums.

We know you do.

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

You forgot to include new/very inexperienced players. I’ve fought and won 1v3 +’s vs 80’s on all of my characters (some are power based, others are cond). But they were all really bad at fighting another player. I don’t have a ranger though, so I can’t speak to that exact situation.

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

You were saying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9nI2WwZ6U

Edit: that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago

sephiroth.4217:

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

You were saying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9nI2WwZ6U

Edit: that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago

Lets see here, I said if you kill anyone in a 1vs3 you were killing uplvls

You proceed to show a Video of you fighting 3 people (1 who was uplvled) with 2 Guards helping you, Thus not a 1vs3 (Yes Guards can be very annoying in a fight, Esp Scouts)

Next you’ll post a video of you killing 3 or 4 people trying to take a Supply Camp, and call that solo.

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

You were saying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9nI2WwZ6U

Edit: that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago

Lets see here, I said if you kill anyone in a 1vs3 you were killing uplvls

You proceed to show a Video of you fighting 3 people (1 who was uplvled) with 2 Guards helping you, Thus not a 1vs3 (Yes Guards can be very annoying in a fight, Esp Scouts)

Next you’ll post a video of you killing 3 or 4 people trying to take a Supply Camp, and call that solo.

That was incredible man, you somehow took one little section of what I said and decided to spit kitten at it and then make further claims about me doing something else.

Clearly you didn’t read everything OR you’re just trying to troll.

[/quote] that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago [/quote]

I have been playing ranger for 11 months now so take one week of fraps away from 48 weeks, then that would leave 47 weeks of game time where I wasn’t able to record, I did the math for you just incase once again you decided not to think before you post.

I think one of the biggest problems with direct damage is that it takes 3 stats to max namely power, precision, and crit damage – leaving you no room to max out a defensive stat like healing, toughness, or vitality.

Condition builds on the other hand only require 1 stat for damage, with maybe a bit of condition duration built in.

Not really fair is it.

Sube Dai.8496:

I think one of the biggest problems with direct damage is that it takes 3 stats to max namely power, precision, and crit damage – leaving you no room to max out a defensive stat like healing, toughness, or vitality.

Condition builds on the other hand only require 1 stat for damage, with maybe a bit of condition duration built in.

Not really fair is it.

You don’t have to max all of those stats you are basically saying everyone in WvW is either Glass or Bunker and there is no inbetween. Some classes have traits or weapon skills that allow you to make up that damage or more than if your gloves are zerker instead of pvt.

Counter examples:

Warrior with base 30% chance to crit runs Unsuspecting foe trait and the popular Skull crack Mace/Shield + GS he stuns he gets +80% chance to crit during that time his Signet of rage is popped and then he is at 100% chance to crit so he can sacrifice his critical chance for defensive stats if he chose to.

Any trait that gives you a +% damage multiplier

Any trait that gives you fury when X requirement is met.

Condition builds damage is condi damage and condi duration out of the 5 classes I play theif, warrior, necromancer, mesmer, and elementalist. There are far more traits that boost direct damage than there are that will boost your condition damage.

Of those classes they really have 1 or 2 traits that will boost your condition damages dps while there are multiple damage increase traits like fury traits, critical chance increases and +X% damage multipliers in almost every tree for those 5 classes so I am sure the other 3 classes are the same.

Usually the best you get for condition damage increases is +33% increase to 1 specific condition.

You could argue might but they both increase direct damage and condi so they kind of cancel each other out.

There’s plenty of ways to counter conditions. I was originally running classes on a support build with mid-low vitality and lots of healing/toughness, got completely wrecked when it came to conditions.

Easy fix. Work on either shortening the duration of conditions on you or get more vitality. Or just work on a build that ties in lots of condition removal, depending on your class. But for me just upping my vitality a bit and creating a better balance of toughness and vitality worked nicely.

All-out condition damage builds are trading off for other useful stats too. There’s always a trade off. And if you’re in a party with support (guardians for instance), they have insane amounts of self and party condition removal. There’s just about always a viable counter.

Next time do sum dat research n find out what class I r maining

Alchemist.3692:

sinject.4607:

Bacon Please.8407:

Just because you have great gear doesnt mean you will do well. However. Currently there is no counter to raw condition damage, there is no – Condition damage even though I believe there should. Conditions are very hard to counter as it is very set up and I have had to buy Holebrak runes and Melandru runes just to play a Power build which is not even on par with condition builds. Conditions need to be looked at, if it is mitigation of damage through toughness (to a certain percent cap) or changing how they are applied or granting immunity to certain conditions after they have been clensed for a short time. Something has to happen because nearly ever player I have encountered is running a condition face roll build. It is getting a bit stale.

I’m fully aware that the gear is only as good as the player wearing it; but i mentioned it because i know some idiot would mention something about glass builds and whatnot. But yeah i agree with everything else.

Xsorus.2507:

Sinjet don’t forget D/P Thieves, very overpowered spec in WvW if played properly.

Same with S/D

d/p and s/d are not overpowered at all. Thief is generally only overpowered to players who legitimately cannot counter them through skill; other than that thief is decently balanced and excels in what it is designed to do.

lol do you play a thief? p/d thieves are so op right now. stacking torment, and confusion… plus perma stealth.. .It’s very tough to counter…. it’s become the meta for thieves right now. It’s not an issue with skill when you get two stacks of torment ticking away 5k+ of hp, and if you want to halve that dmg you gotta stand still… imagine that – standing still while fighting a thief. lol it’s completely imbalanced unless you run a condition clearing class.

I still kill them easily on my GC warrior, Berserker Stance ftw

Too many biased comments to respond to. I’ll just say as a condition based Engi I understand the mechanic. When I run into other players who understand the mechanic the fights are interesting. There seems to be a lot of “I want to run this specific build and I can’t counter purpose built specs in my build”. Well, that’s your choice. I only run one stun break because my build is overall stronger for it. When I run into chain stun locks, I better up my game, because it’s going to be a challenge.

If you are running into a lot of conditions, maybe learn to counter it with a difference in your build, or run.

Tyaen.5148:

Too many biased comments to respond to. I’ll just say as a condition based Engi I understand the mechanic. When I run into other players who understand the mechanic the fights are interesting. There seems to be a lot of “I want to run this specific build and I can’t counter purpose built specs in my build”. Well, that’s your choice. I only run one stun break because my build is overall stronger for it. When I run into chain stun locks, I better up my game, because it’s going to be a challenge.

If you are running into a lot of conditions, maybe learn to counter it with a difference in your build, or run.

The most hilarious part, as you should probably know as a cond. engineer. Is that the cond. engineer hasnt changed much at all since launch.

It got a couple of nerfs, a little buff. All in all its been in pretty much the same spot for over a year now.

And all of a sudden, very recently, Conditions are an issue and need to be fixed. And yet every example comes down to “so, this Necro…” And then follows a suggestion or demand that would nerf all conditions across the board. Even on builds that are bad, or have never been an issue.

People are projecting the issue with Necro’s and the Perplexity runes upon ALL condition builds.
Thats like nerfing Guardians because Thieves backstab for to much damage.

sephiroth.4217:

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

Xsorus.2507:

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve just caught onto the condition ranger and it’s a lot of fun. Was using knights gear with sword/axe and GS and was able to 1v3 with that build as signant ranger so maybe that should get nerfed too?

If you kill anyone 1vs3 as a Ranger using Knights Gear, you’re killing Uplvls.

You will not kill anyone of note otherwise.

You were saying?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9nI2WwZ6U

Edit: that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago

Lets see here, I said if you kill anyone in a 1vs3 you were killing uplvls

You proceed to show a Video of you fighting 3 people (1 who was uplvled) with 2 Guards helping you, Thus not a 1vs3 (Yes Guards can be very annoying in a fight, Esp Scouts)

Next you’ll post a video of you killing 3 or 4 people trying to take a Supply Camp, and call that solo.

That was incredible man, you somehow took one little section of what I said and decided to spit kitten at it and then make further claims about me doing something else.

Clearly you didn’t read everything OR you’re just trying to troll.

that is only one of the many fights I’ve had on my ranger as 1v3/1vX and won, only just got fraps about a week ago [/quote]

I have been playing ranger for 11 months now so take one week of fraps away from 48 weeks, then that would leave 47 weeks of game time where I wasn’t able to record, I did the math for you just incase once again you decided not to think before you post.[/quote]

You should have no trouble getting an actual video of you killing non uplvled people in a 1vs3 then

Terrahero.9358:

The most hilarious part, as you should probably know as a cond. engineer. Is that the cond. engineer hasnt changed much at all since launch.

It got a couple of nerfs, a little buff. All in all its been in pretty much the same spot for over a year now.

And all of a sudden, very recently, Conditions are an issue and need to be fixed. And yet every example comes down to “so, this Necro…” And then follows a suggestion or demand that would nerf all conditions across the board. Even on builds that are bad, or have never been an issue.

People are projecting the issue with Necro’s and the Perplexity runes upon ALL condition builds.
Thats like nerfing Guardians because Thieves backstab for to much damage.

That’s really my point, nothing has changed except for some minor introductions. I run HgH and 409, specifically to counter what appears to be the new Necro Meta.

Are Runes of Perplexity OP? In the right hands they are, but they same can be said for any build in the hands of a skilled player.

Terrahero.9358:

The most hilarious part, as you should probably know as a cond. engineer. Is that the cond. engineer hasnt changed much at all since launch.

It got a couple of nerfs, a little buff. All in all its been in pretty much the same spot for over a year now.

And all of a sudden, very recently, Conditions are an issue and need to be fixed. And yet every example comes down to “so, this Necro…” And then follows a suggestion or demand that would nerf all conditions across the board. Even on builds that are bad, or have never been an issue.

People are projecting the issue with Necro’s and the Perplexity runes upon ALL condition builds.
Thats like nerfing Guardians because Thieves backstab for to much damage.

It has been brought up then dismissed or not answered. Condition have done the same amount of damage since launch besides confusion in WvW. The burning that everyone hates so much that necro’s got is single target anyway and does the same damage as anybody elses burning.

Condition warriors have always been around but not that great healing signet gets a buff impale gets torment so people started running condition warrior again. The only drastic change is implae gets torment and hps.

I don’t know much about rangers but they always had good condi builds.

lunyboy.8672:

Darek.1836:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

hi I rolled all of the above
on all 3 classes I have less than half the time on my guardian. Im also really good on my guardian. Howver with the exception of going against high burst on my engi, I can easily win almost every single 1v1 using the above 3 condi builds.
maybe you’re the one who should try to roll a melee DD build and try to fight a condi spam build (protip, except for specced warrs, you can’t)

I also kittening Lol’d when you said “play defensively” against condis. that’s step one to getting your kitten whooped HARD.

Why would I want to? I don’t care about your profession, I like my main. Besides, if you weren’t so worried about your DPS, you might be able to stack condition clearing. So cute when you DD Melee types can’t be bothered to use anything but DPS gear. Lol.

I know who you are, Moobs, and your tears taste delicious.

and what if I told you I run every possible condi removal on guardians except 1 passive every 10s (that takes 30 trait points in a line I don’t use)?
yeah you can go back into your hole now

They love Joshua Davis so much, they built the game around him!

Darek.1836:

lunyboy.8672:

Darek.1836:

lunyboy.8672:

Jinks.2057:

The ppl who defend this kitten are absolutely hilarious.

Not NEARLY as funny as the people whining about it.

“Oh no, I can’t faceroll everything in the game anymore!”

Get some condition removal, and maybe try ROLLING a Necro, Ranger, or Engie, so you can see how their skills work, and which to avoid. Watch some youtube vids of Condi tanks “pwning noobs,” and then play defensively with that in mind.

hi I rolled all of the above
on all 3 classes I have less than half the time on my guardian. Im also really good on my guardian. Howver with the exception of going against high burst on my engi, I can easily win almost every single 1v1 using the above 3 condi builds.
maybe you’re the one who should try to roll a melee DD build and try to fight a condi spam build (protip, except for specced warrs, you can’t)

I also kittening Lol’d when you said “play defensively” against condis. that’s step one to getting your kitten whooped HARD.

Why would I want to? I don’t care about your profession, I like my main. Besides, if you weren’t so worried about your DPS, you might be able to stack condition clearing. So cute when you DD Melee types can’t be bothered to use anything but DPS gear. Lol.

I know who you are, Moobs, and your tears taste delicious.

and what if I told you I run every possible condi removal on guardians except 1 passive every 10s (that takes 30 trait points in a line I don’t use)?
yeah you can go back into your hole now

What if I told you I think you’re doing it wrong? Where’s your hole?

Strong condition spam is basically impossible to counter solo no mater how much removal you have. Most skills only remove 1-3 conditions per use and have cooldowns of 20 seconds or longer. In groups condis get a lot easier to deal with due to group cleansing, but it is totally out of control for small fights.

It’s sad that so many players have turned to such a lame form of gameplay. As a guardian, the only interesting fights I have anymore are against non-condi, non-ranged and non-stealth spam players. So basically other guardians, warriors, D/D eles, melee rangers(rare breed) and power engies(also rare.). Thieves, necros, mesmers and most engies and rangers are simply not fun to fight against. Not necessailry hard to beat, just not fun. The only things that are blatantly op are terrormancers and people abusing runes of complexity. Stun spam wars get an honorable mention for those classes that have limited access to stability.

If you thought fighting against condi builds was bad before, just wait till this next patch. They are getting WAAAY better gear itemization with +vit +tough +condi dmg. Seriously, they get all the main tanking stats and relevant dmg stats with one gear type. for a direct damage class to equal this, they would need gear that has +vit +tough +power +crit +crit% dmg. Time to start thinking about condi builds for the 80s you all have.

Bhima.9518:

If you thought fighting against condi builds was bad before, just wait till this next patch. They are getting WAAAY better gear itemization with +vit +tough +condi dmg. Seriously, they get all the main tanking stats and relevant dmg stats with one gear type. for a direct damage class to equal this, they would need gear that has +vit +tough +power +crit +crit% dmg. Time to start thinking about condi builds for the 80s you all have.

Yeah, my Condi Guardian’s gunna ROCK!