Guild Wars 2

But if jumping should be optional, shouldn’t combat, puzzle solving, reading, listening, looking and thinking be optional as well?
Wouldn’t that basically mean the game would be nothing at all?

Or should they just cater to those that dislike jumping, while ignoring those that dislike other parts of the game?

Filaha.1678:

I’ve taken screenshots of every mandatory jump required to get through the story. It is now in the court of the anti-jumpers to show where all these precise, super hard jumps are. Ignore that the character changes for some. The female hasn’t done the story yet.

2. Lightning Aspect to the wall, then Wind Aspect up to the very big platform above you. Impossible to overshoot. Just target the wall itself and you’ll hit it and fall down.

So where are the precise, nigh-impossible jumps? Those all seem to be to rather large platforms which require about as much precision as throwing a ball at your wall.

There – I quoted your own description for you!
I was also curious of which jump was possibly difficult or impossible for someone with a disability of some kind limiting their movement and position of character, cursor and hand on keyboard.
I fraps’ed it running from the Dry Top Entry Waypoint, and the first light dash is ok. Even if you spend longer time positioning yourself than the crystal lasts, you can get past it by moving back/forward to recharge it once it respawns without changing your carefully planned position.
The same goes for your image no. 1 lightning pull to the middle peak. Again you’re on a platform where you can pretty much move a step back and forth to renew the lightning aspect while you are carefully planning your jump/lightning pull to that spot.

Now, for 2. on that peak, you only get the air/wind aspect for high jumps. Someone who takes more than 15 seconds to turn around and face that wall you’re talking about and active the lightning pull on a placed target will not have any way of replenishing lightning pull.
Seeing as you need to drop down 2 platforms to make the high jump with the air aspect over to the Zephyrite, you cannot easily replenish this crystal either.

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

So what Raenzjar.4210 and Sytherek.7689 have been indicating most strongly holds true (they of course have known all along!). And this could be remedied by having the aspects not expire and rather just have a set amount of charges like they usually do.

Dondarrion.2748

Now, for 2. on that peak, you only get the air/wind aspect for high jumps. Someone who takes more than 15 seconds to turn around and face that wall you’re talking about and active the lightning pull on a placed target will not have any way of replenishing lightning pull.
Seeing as you need to drop down 2 platforms to make the high jump with the air aspect over to the Zephyrite, you cannot easily replenish this crystal either.

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

So what Raenzjar.4210 and Sytherek.7689 have been indicating most strongly holds true (they of course have known all along!). And this could be remedied by having the aspects not expire and rather just have a set amount of charges like they usually do.

That is not a necessary double jump, you can jump up on the wreckage wall, then run hugging the cliff a short bit to a piece of wreckage that functions as a ramp that takes you up the rest of the cliff without the need for aspect jumping. By using this way you can also run north from the ramp to get the second waypoint before going back and continuing up the cliff.

Ashandar.2570:

Dondarrion.2748

Now, for 2. on that peak, you only get the air/wind aspect for high jumps. Someone who takes more than 15 seconds to turn around and face that wall you’re talking about and active the lightning pull on a placed target will not have any way of replenishing lightning pull.
Seeing as you need to drop down 2 platforms to make the high jump with the air aspect over to the Zephyrite, you cannot easily replenish this crystal either.

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

So what Raenzjar.4210 and Sytherek.7689 have been indicating most strongly holds true (they of course have known all along!). And this could be remedied by having the aspects not expire and rather just have a set amount of charges like they usually do.

That is not a necessary double jump, you can jump up on the wreckage wall, then run hugging the cliff a short bit to a piece of wreckage that functions as a ramp that takes you up the rest of the cliff without the need for aspect jumping. By using this way you can also run north from the ramp to get the second waypoint before going back and continuing up the cliff.

No, you misunderstand, you have already got past the point that is blocking people. Look at my screenshot (no. 2 by Filaha). People cannot get from the peak where you end up with the first lightning pull you pick up. Assuming it takes time to turn around, etc. the lightning pull will expire and all you’re left with is the Air aspect.

As noted, the air aspect spawns on the top of that middle peak while you have to drop down two platforms in order to make a jump across during which time – someone with movement limitations – may take too much time to position themselves before the Air aspect expires.

lordkrall.7241:

But if jumping should be optional, shouldn’t combat, puzzle solving, reading, listening, looking and thinking be optional as well?
Wouldn’t that basically mean the game would be nothing at all?

Or should they just cater to those that dislike jumping, while ignoring those that dislike other parts of the game?

hyperbole. sPvP is optional. WvW is optional. Crafting is optional. Map completion is optional. Personal story is optional. Standalone JPs are optional. Living story is optional. Dungeons are optional. If a person does not like such content, all they forego is the rewards and AP connected to them. Personally, I would never ask for rewards for content I choose not to do.

Basic access to a new world zone should not be a “reward”. Basic access should be available to anyone playing.

Anet includes elements of “optional” content in order to achieve unrelated goals as a blunt force mechanism to “play their way”.

Forcing jumping to simply enter the 2nd new world zone introduced is pushing that “play our way” syndrome too far and focusing far too much on a single aspect of play.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Living story is optional.

This is Living Story. I don’t understand the problem.

re: If you cant, then you are not supposed to finish it – Living Story Season 2 is mainstream content, which is supposed to be for everyone. If LS S2 is supposed to be hard core content, only for a few, than Anet should have marketed/represented it differently. And they certainly should have said something by now.

re: Legendaries can be bought – for a thousand gold or more. This is not a viable alternative. I’ve never thought it was fair that a person who can’t jump would be denied the opportunity to make Legendary weapons. But I’ve never complained about it before now. The RNG also seems unfair. But it doesn’t shut out certain people the way the jumping requirement does.

re: they should include alternative paths which could be traversed without jumps & use of crystals? / If you can choose between a safe path and a dangerous path – You are the only person(I’ve noticed) who has suggested that one path(the non-jumping path) be safe. If you had read the rest of the thread you should have seen people suggesting combat and puzzles as alternatives to the jumping path. No, we don’t want a plain, bland path as the jumping alternative. They should give people a reason to choose each path, rather than a reason not to. Ideally, many people would go back and do both paths, because they’re both enjoyable to a lot of people.

re: Not liking it and not being able to do it are two separate things. – Yes, but in a game which is for enjoyment, liking it is a big factor. If you don’t like a game, why would you play it? If Anet is going to have more and more of this type of content, as opposed to actual high fantasy MMO content, then more and more of the high fasntasy MMO audience will not enjoy the game. If Anet wants to change their customer base, then that’s their prerogative. But it’s unfair to the people who have been mislead into buying a game that isn’t what they wanted.(or is going to radically change into something they don’t want) This “we want to incorporate non-traditional elements” thing can only go so far, before you can’t call it an MMO any more. If Anet really wants an “MMO with console-like game play” then they need to be more up front with that. A lot of the MMO people don’t like reflex type play, and/or can’t do it. You need to represent you game truthfully, and not mislead more people into buying it than would actually like it. But I really don’t know for sure what they want in this situation. And no one from Anet has commented on this thread.(yet, I hope)

Is GW2 supposed to be a reflex-based MMO for console users? Is it supposed to be an MMO with some new things to differentiate it from other MMO’s, but still an MMO? Actually, the answer to “What is Guild Wars 2 supposed to be?” would probably vary quite a bit depending on what Anet employee you ask. In the design manifesto, they use the term MMORPG many times to describe Guild Wars 2.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. And in the design manifesto they don’t mention reflex or twitch type play, or jumping platformer type play. I would encourage everyone who plays GW2 to go read the design manifesto. It would seem, if you want to go to any one source to answer the question “What is Guild Wars 2 supposed to be?”, it would be the design manifesto, right? If their vision has changed, and GW2 is actually now not an MMORPG, then perhaps this term shouldn’t be mentioned 15 times(?) in that document. The word MMO is used 17 times, the words console, jump, and platformer do not seem to be included in the design manifesto. The design manifesto should reflect what they actually want Guild Wars 2 to be. Not to mention how they advertize and represent the game. People need to know what they’re buying, so companies need to give a clear picture.

Dondarrion.2748:

No, you misunderstand, you have already got past the point that is blocking people. Look at my screenshot (no. 2 by Filaha). People cannot get from the peak where you end up with the first lightning pull you pick up. Assuming it takes time to turn around, etc. the lightning pull will expire and all you’re left with is the Air aspect.

As noted, the air aspect spawns on the top of that middle peak while you have to drop down two platforms in order to make a jump across during which time – someone with movement limitations – may take too much time to position themselves before the Air aspect expires.

Ah, you are quite correct. I misunderstood your post by concentrating too much on the attached image.

Now, regarding the correct jump.. If you are unable to drop down on the ledge and then press 1 and w/forward within the time frame, then you have a problem.
The problem however is not limited to that particular jump, because if you are unable to do that jump you will not be able to navigate through the rest of the map either.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Yes, but in a game which is for enjoyment, liking it is a big factor. If you don’t like a game, why would you play it? If Anet is going to have more and more of this type of content, as opposed to actual high fantasy MMO content, then more and more of the high fasntasy MMO audience will not enjoy the game. If Anet wants to change their customer base, then that’s their prerogative. But it’s unfair to the people who have been mislead into buying a game that isn’t what they wanted.(or is going to radically change into something they don’t want) This “we want to incorporate non-traditional elements” thing can only go so far, before you can’t call it an MMO any more. If Anet really wants an “MMO with console-like game play” then they need to be more up front with that. A lot of the MMO people don’t like reflex type play, and/or can’t do it. You need to represent you game truthfully, and not mislead more people into buying it than would actually like it.

So basically Anet has betrayed the entire customer base because they added something to the game that you don’t like? I’m really sorry, but this is pure whining.

re: So basically Anet has betrayed the entire customer base because they added something to the game that you don’t like? – Changing the focus of the game, and type of game play, and making that new (previously optional, and problematic for some) type of game play the only way to progress in Living Story is not the same as “adding something to the game that I don’t like”.

@Elden
MMORPG doesnt actually describe what type of game it is mechanics wise. Mechanics wise GW2 is an action reflex MMORPG with jumping elements. Just because this isnt made super clear for nitpickers like you, doesnt mean its not true.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: So basically Anet has betrayed the entire customer base because they added something to the game that you don’t like? – Changing the focus of the game, and type of game play, and making that new (previously optional, and problematic for some) type of game play the only way to progress in Living Story is not the same as “adding something to the game that I don’t like”.

But it wasn’t any more optional previously than it is now. And that is what you refuse to accept.
And they haven’t changed the focus of the game.
They have released ONE CHAPTER that needs you to use a couple of skills. HOW is that “changing the focus of the game”?.

So those that “don’t like Jumping Puzzles” have never cleared a map due to the mandate that you MUST do some jumping to reach all the Vistas? Seriously, jumping has been in the game since release and while it is “optional” to some extent, I find it difficult to believe that any player has just NEVER hit the spacebar and feels “betrayed” if forced to do so to progress in the game.

The entire discussion is “hyperbole”, IMO. There is nothing wrong with disliking the Aspect skills and being forced to use them about a dozen times to progress the LS2 story, but the entire “Betrayal” drama is going a bit far.

I love the bandwagon complainers the most. They don’t even play GW2 anymore but read the forums and then parrot back everyone’s negative opinions without playing it themselves.

I actually have a friend who just did this. I asked him how he liked LS2 and he says he hates it because he hates jumping puzzles and hates being forced to do it to progress in the game. Of course I asked him what the heck he was talking about, since both jumping puzzles are optional, and he said the story requires you to do so much jumping it might as well be a jumping puzzle. I even asked him point blank if he actually tried the content, which he claimed he did but quit because of how much jumping there was. (I ignored the fact his last login pre-dated the release, I knew what he was doing from the start because that’s the kind of person he is)

I finally convinced him to do the story with me to show me what he was talking about, which he fought me on (probably because he had to download the update first lol). Finally we finished the infamous “jumping puzzle” part without him even realizing it (I honestly think he was waiting for some harder jumps to say “Ha! See this is ridiculous to have to do this!”

We get to the top and I said “Ok, now what part of that would you say was like a jumping puzzle?” (because of course we had done maybe 6-8 jumps) and he said “well don’t we have to go up higher?” and I said “no….. not unless you are trying to get some achievement points” to which he responded “oh….well, I didn’t actually play this part of the story.”

He’s a frequenter of the forums. He plays roughly 1-2hrs/mos yet is one of the most opinionated people against GW2 I know. It’s all based on conjecture and speculation from the other forum haters.

Point is, he automatically believed what negative nonsense was being said because he also dislikes the game and then perpetuates it.

I feel the majority of people in this thread claiming it’s oh so hard and you’re forced to do jumping puzzles have not actually tried the content. They just read some dude saying it’s like a jumping puzzle, decided they also hate jumping puzzles, and then continue on agreeing with those people about how these jumping puzzles are forced on you and it’s not fair and they are paying customers and blah blah.

Anyone who has actually completed this LS2 update thinks those people sound like utter morons because there’s so little jumping.

ITT: People complaining about incredibly easy jumps that any player can pull off easily. Khani proved that with their video, which I’m requoting so people can see it.

And Elden, please in the name of the Khan-Ur use the reply function and quote what you’re referring to, it’s annoying and near impossible to tell which part you’re responding to and which part is your own words otherwise.

khani.4786:

Elden, you’re one of the most vocal I’ve seen on this and so I tested this.

I tried getting from the Dry Top Entry waypoint to Prosperity waypoint on a Charr (one of the worst for jumping) with 5-9 FPS and it was very doable. Terribly clunky and you can see the Assisted Leap I didn’t make it the first time because I wasn’t facing the right way, but now after doing it myself in some of the worst conditions I could possibly recreate on my own, I can see that many people are complaining just because things are a little harder than they would like.

It took me 2 minutes to get from point A to point B because I took my time and didn’t try to rush it. And here is the video of me doing it…

http://youtu.be/sGgcB3-ZsWI

It is a level 80 zone, gives those of us that have done everything else somewhere new and provides a slight challenge for those willing to push through it. I see no restrictions to anyone wanting to get into the map.

I just want to add that both this and my video about the same subject has been viewd ~15 times. From that that was me 13 times while uploading/doing finishing touches.

Conclusion: The whiners don’t even care, even if you hand them the solution on a silver platter.

I’m worried that Living Story Season 3 is just going to be Super Mario Galaxy but with tree people

7 days, 16 pages and no response from Anet. At this point I don’t think it’s realistic to expect to get one. If we haven’t gotten Anet’s attention by now, I don’t think that we’re going to. Questions have been asked, and we’re gotten no response. Generally it’s mostly been arguing back and forth, name calling, accusations, denials, etc… And the vast majority is the same stuff over and over and over… A few people have offered helpful hints. But only one person has stepped up and actually attempted to gather facts, for anyone who may be working towards a solution.
With no response from Anet, we don’t know what their take on all this is. And we don’t know whether or not we can skip this episode and pick up with episode 2, or if there will be more heavy focus on jumping and ZA use in episode 2, or in all the Living Story going forward. It would be very nice to have some answers, but Anet hasn’t given us any.(And IMO, it doesn’t look like they will.)

Bubi.7942:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Living story is optional.

This is Living Story. I don’t understand the problem.

Entry to a new world zone is not “living story”. It is a permanent zone. I do not care one fig about the LS.

@Elden: Just out of curiosity, what kind of reply would you expect and/or would you find satisfactory?

re: @Elden: Just out of curiosity, what kind of reply would you expect and/or would you find satisfactory? – If jump-challenged people can skip past all the jumping/ZA use and pick up in whatever episode is after that point, that would let jump-challenged people enjoy at least part of LS S2. If the majority of the rest has heavy jumping/ZA use, then there’s really nothing for the jump-challenged in LS S2. Also, if the majority of the rest of LS S2 has jumping/ZA use, it would clue us in to the fact that Anet is shifting their play style focus towards play style that is not for us.

For something so non-critical, it’s mostly a minor gripe anyway. I’m still not a fan of how the dev team goes about their jumping puzzle philosophy (still got 100% completion on a Charr…), but the best I can hope for is camera tightening.

16 pages and no dev response is considered brutal? Take a gander at the official Traits one. I think it’s been almost 3 months and 40+ pages of fairly-directed vitriol, good suggestions, and testimonials. Still no official response.

I guess the anti-jumpers here are out of luck, here’s a new screen for the next episode:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/3b9011f122739c1257e3f2d1a1c04de9/tumblr_n8eqwhmwXJ1tsmq13o1_1280.jpg

Myself… heya colour me excited

Jumping should be as optional as combat, story and puzzles, basically not optional at all. If you are rubbish at jumping then why buy a game that advertised jumping as one of it’s features?

It is part of the game and a requirement at some points, you just have to live with it. Just like the rest of us have to live with other minor aspects of the game that we may not happy with. (Living story b-iconics, I am looking at you)

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: @Elden: Just out of curiosity, what kind of reply would you expect and/or would you find satisfactory? – If jump-challenged people can skip past all the jumping/ZA use and pick up in whatever episode is after that point, that would let jump-challenged people enjoy at least part of LS S2. If the majority of the rest has heavy jumping/ZA use, then there’s really nothing for the jump-challenged in LS S2. Also, if the majority of the rest of LS S2 has jumping/ZA use, it would clue us in to the fact that Anet is shifting their play style focus towards play style that is not for us.

Fair enough. I do think that people will be able to skip LS chapters and jump in whenever they wish. We’ll see in a few days whichever the case is.

I doubt that implementing some zephyrite skills in LS release revolving around zephyrites is a “clue… to the fact that Anet is shifting their play style focus”.
To be honest, having vertical challenges in every story release would get old very quickly (at least I think so, considering it was the same case with zergy content and most of the populous adores that for some reason), and more importantly I think ANet shares this opinion.
EDIT: Not that I think that there are any real vertical challenges in this release, at least no more then in most of the previous releases.

Why don’t you use quotes?

It wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t involve those buggy aspect powers. It’d be nice if things were fixed so when you jump, you actually jump…and not you know, stay on the ground.

re: Jump-challenged – Is short for “those people who have difficulty jumping, or possibly can’t jump at all.” I’ve used it before in this thread, and no one except you has raised any objection about it.

Bubi has made an instructional video to help people get through much of the jumping/ZA use in Dry Top. The side Bubi has taken in this thread might make some of us doubt that Bubi is sincerely trying to help people who are having difficulty with those jumps, but he actually is. He goes through at a slow pace, and explains what he’s doing in detail. He takes us through the intro and to each of the places that Living Story instances start. And he also shows us how to safely get to Prosperity waypoint. He does not show us any of the jumps that take place in the Living Story instances, but that would make the video much longer.(it’s 8minutes 17 seconds) I’m an American, from the Southeastern US, and I had no trouble with Bubi’s accent, or his English. The video quality is good, I had no issues with that, either The audio was a little soft, but I turned it up and had no trouble understanding everything except the very last line – “But that only affects ____________.” It wasn’t crucial.

If you think you would benefit from seeing a video of the Dry Top jumps & ZA, done at a slow, deliberate pace, with helpful narration. I would encourage you to watch Bubi’s instructional video:

Thank you for making an instructional video to help us out, Bubi. And don’t worry about your hits. Your video got posted after Filaha’s screen shot based guide. So a lot of people who were wondering if they were doing the jumps right probably looked at those first. And it’s only been about 15 hours since you posted it. Thanks again for putting in so much effort to make that helpful video.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: #9 – I swear this one looks like “I jump on the head of my giant lizard, then up on the rock shelf.”

Haha, you found out my secret to jumping up. My super helpful lizard pet.

Seriously, though, they need to make a better “Stow Pet” mechanic that doesn’t make it pop immediately back out because you take like 10 fall damage and the game thinks you’re being viciously assaulted.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Imho this happens a lot in this game already:

• Legendaries can be bought instead of having everyone to finish map completion / battle tokens and dungeon gifts.
• Traits can be bought instead of taking on the challenge
  etc.

Actually, a fair bit after the traits system came out, I was doing map completion on one of my characters, and went into Orr. I started doing a defend event and had an entire tub of toxic venom poured onto my head by all the people who wanted it to fail so they could do the attack event for their trait. It ended up with them going out of their way to come over and scale it up just so it’d fail. One of the various reasons why I laugh when people say this community is so much better than certain other games.

yksdoris.2194:

Filaha, as an answer to you post about jumps I personally found challenging: those are screenshots 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 15. Not impossible, mind. But I do get vertigo when doing the jumps, and I don’t have the best hand-eye coordination to begin with.

On a different note, I find it puzzling how people don’t understand that some things are simply difficult, sometimes plain impossible to other people.

It’s difficult for people to understand because we don’t have the problems. For example, you cite picture 3 as being challenging, when factually-speaking, the jumps are small, don’t require the crystals, and are onto large platforms which it is impossible to fall off of, unless you’re holding the forward button for a very long time after you land. That’s why people who don’t have problems can’t understand why. To us, it just looks like “Okay, there are three platforms big enough to fit about 20 of yourself. Why can’t these be landed on?”

Dondarrion.2748:

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

Me to the rescue again! Please find attached one (1) screenshot detailing an alternate route that negates the need for quickly spinning around with lightning leap still active.

Basically, you pick up the wind aspect and drop off the ledge immediately in front of you towards the big ledge (which, IIRC, the story, if you’re following it, puts a marker over the head of the Zephyrite there anyways) and do a quick hop up to the ledge. You can line yourself up in advance, then pick up the wind crystal and go for it. Once on the ledge, you can run along it and make two hops up to the next wind crystal, neither of which require the wind aspect, so it doesn’t matter how long you take. From then on, you can continue to the rest of the steps.

Filaha.1678:

Dondarrion.2748:

So, you post a lot of screenshots but the zone is closed off already at step 2. I’ve tried it. I cannot begin to fathom how the physical limitations works for someone suffering from them, but I spent 30 secs to 1 minute at each crystal spot to “simulate” taking time to turn around, etc.

Me to the rescue again! Please find attached one (1) screenshot detailing an alternate route that negates the need for quickly spinning around with lightning leap still active.

Basically, you pick up the wind aspect and drop off the ledge immediately in front of you towards the big ledge (which, IIRC, the story, if you’re following it, puts a marker over the head of the Zephyrite there anyways) and do a quick hop up to the ledge. You can line yourself up in advance, then pick up the wind crystal and go for it. Once on the ledge, you can run along it and make two hops up to the next wind crystal, neither of which require the wind aspect, so it doesn’t matter how long you take. From then on, you can continue to the rest of the steps.

I can do this just fine, but I’m going by those who have written they might take 30+ seconds to get their bearings before/after jumps and due to some disabilities they play the game under physical limitations meaning moving hand/fingers on they keyboard in conjunction with pivoting/clicking mouse imposes tough challenges on them to the degree that the aspect timer blocks them from getting past these areas. This spot is one where the aspect spawn blocks them, even with your explanation above.

You “drop off the ledge immediately” and “do a quick hop” and this is where we take things for granted that others in this thread are concerned because they cannot do this quickly enough. I see to a degree you can line up and face the right direction on that peak where the 1st wind aspect spawns, then once you are in position, renew it and drop down and try the jump to the ledge.

And I agree, once you’re on the ledge, everything after might be a challenge, but at least every/most jump required of you is next to a wind aspect spawn so you can always position yourself, renew the aspect charge, then try at your own will.

I guess Anet could not deal with variable timers on aspects, so that only the aspects at the top with the JP had timers on them while all others down on “ground level” in the map were charge based. Ofc, would need to give them so few charges/non-stackable that you couldn’t bring 30x stack wind aspect with you from below to the JP.

Lastly: not arguing for the sake of it, but trying to see the situation from the perspective of those playing the game with disabilities. While I don’t agree game should always keep all jumping optional and not a part of the story, etc. I also have turned around so that if there is jumping involved, at least it’s under conditions that everyone can get by. There’s no need for difficult jumping just as you enter the zone, the difficult jumping should be associated with the elite achievements of the region/story.

I’m sorry to say but: if anyone is taking 30+ seconds to press a button, then this game is not for them. Nor are 99% of the games on the market.

Not just a button but positioning of character facing direction, aiming a ground target mote and then pressing a button.

I agree, they are gaming under adverse conditions but they have made it this far, I struggle to see how they survive combat or maneuver in all other situations but it’s apparently Dry Top that’s causing blocking issues.

And again I’m not talking about those who don’t like jumping or just won’t practice to get something done, that’s just childish. Just supporting those playing this game with a disability.

Dondarrion.2748:

You “drop off the ledge immediately” and “do a quick hop” and this is where we take things for granted that others in this thread are concerned because they cannot do this quickly enough. I see to a degree you can line up and face the right direction on that peak where the 1st wind aspect spawns, then once you are in position, renew it and drop down and try the jump to the ledge.

You cut out the important context for the first one though. I said you “drop off the ledge immediately in front of you”, not just " immediately". As in, you just have to fall down to the ledge right in front of you.

And by quick hop, I was referring to the size of the jump, not that you have to do it fast. All the lining up and aiming can be done before picking up the wind crystal, then it just takes running forward and hitting the jump button once to get to the big ledge with the zephyrite.

Dondarrion.2748:

I agree, they are gaming under adverse conditions but they have made it this far, I struggle to see how they survive combat or maneuver in all other situations but it’s apparently Dry Top that’s causing blocking issues.

Exactly. If you manage to fight a lv 80 mob or maybe 2, or horrible dictu a lv80 veteran, you shouldn’t have problems with Dry Top.

Edit: I would even go as far as fighting a lv80 veteran is far more difficult than these ‘jumps’.

Bubi.7942:

Exactly. If you manage to fight a lv 80 mob or maybe 2, or horrible dictu a lv80 veteran, you shouldn’t…

And exactly the shouldn’t is paramount here, some people do and we cannot relate to it because to us it seems so easy.

Filaha, the drop isn’t immediately in front, your lightning pull puts you on that peak and you have to make a slight turn and then drop down on the ledge. Not nitpicking, and apparently those I’m now advocating this case for have left the discussion, so I guess we can conclude here.

Thread summary:

Jumping shouldn’t be optional anywhere, but time-based jumping that conflicts with a player’s physical limitations should preferably be avoided as means to get further in a zone to progress story content.

Is Anet going to do something about it? Probably not.
Have Anet even read this thread? Probably not.

And then I’ve elaborated enough on this given I’m not even remotely hindered by it myself.

Personally I like how they’ve used the crystals to allow for more jumping. But on the other hand it’s also counter intuitive. We have a button for jumping, and all of a sudden we have a pickup that gives us additional jumping skills on our skill bar. It’s kind of bizarre and incoherent design-wise.

Dondarrion, thank you for doing your testing and trying to understand the difficulties that some people are having with this.

re: apparently those I’m now advocating this case for have left the discussion – The way they’ve been treated, the things they’ve been called and accused of, do you blame them? Though arguing seems to have largely calmed down, recently.
Living with a disability or physical restriction, or even just difficulties that set you apart from the rest is difficult enough. Who would want to come on a public internet forum and admit their shortcomings? But then to see other people admit having issues similar to theirs get jumped by bullies and jerks, who belittle, demean and otherwise insult them. And say that they aren’t worthy to play this game. Then why would they want to post here?
Thank you for testing, and trying to understand the difficult situation this puts some of us in. Only relatively recently have people started stepping up and offering practical guides to help. Generally it’s been mostly arguing, but that has recently calmed down.(and if we don’t feed the trolls, hopefully it will stay that way) Maybe more people will start responding. Thank you for being open and for trying to understand another point of view. And thank you to everyone else who has been helpful, and to those that have expressed their opinions respectfully.(on both sides) I hope that this thread will continue to help people who have difficulties with the jumping and Zephyrite Aspect use in Dry Top.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

But then to see other people admit having issues similar to theirs get jumped by bullies and jerks, who belittle, demean and otherwise insult them. And say that they aren’t worthy to play this game. Then why would they want to post here?

Indeed. What is truly mystifying about this whole discussion is that even though there have been some harsh words from people on both sides of the issue, the entire affair can pretty much be summed up thusly:

Anti-Jumpers: “Hey, we’re having a hard time here. We want the Jumpers to have a good time too, so we’re not asking for the removal of jumping, but could we have some different options so that we can have a good time too?”

Pro-Jumpers: “What?! NO! We couldn’t care less if you’re having a good time, if you can’t do the jumps you’re just a whiner who doesn’t deserve to play the game. No options for you!”

Honestly, it seems like earlier MMO’s had much more of a sense of community, with people who cared about and supported each other. I honestly don’t see much of that on the GW2 forums. Anyone who expresses displeasure with any aspect of the game is quickly piled upon and poked to death with a +5 Greatsword of White Knightery.

Are there people who don’t know how to express their displeasure with appropriate constructive criticism? Sure. And they need to learn what is appropriate, no doubt about it. But if you’re on the “pro-jump” side of this issue and you don’t think that many of the responses to the concerns raised in this thread are not equally as toxic as posts written by people who don’t know how to be constructive with their feedback, you are kidding yourself.

The next time someone requests a feature that you, personally, would not use, but would not result in something being taken away from you…consider supporting it. Or at least consider not shouting the person down on the forums to make him or her feel like garbage for even daring to ask. Honestly, it won’t kill you to be supportive of the needs of other members of the community.

@minibariguy: I think you missed some discussions here. I think I made some fair points without insulting the anti-jumpers and got a lot of “ignoring my points” and ignorant answers… and no answers to questions I was asking.

I also clarified how I could see it as a problem, that the timers were nerfed as well as the removal of more challenging jumps from the mandatory part of the game.

I won’t discuss this all over again, just wanted to say that most of the stuff which was stated was just ignored and some lines were taken out of context to get to a point, which was just a poor reaction. And now you call us Whiteknights.

it’s all still there I guess (in case nobody deleted the posts), everyone can read the stuff and make his own mind, just don’t sum it up that black and white.

@ Marcus Greythorne: I just took a moment to review your posts in this thread, and I agree that you were not one of the people who were insulting the anti-jumping crowd. I think that you voiced your opinions respectfully.

That said, I still find it odd that you (and others) would spend so much time and effort to argue against people having options to make the game more enjoyable for them. I repeat my assertion that it won’t kill us to be supportive of the needs of others, especially in situations where it would not harm us in any way to do so.

In any case, yes, let’s not discuss it all over again. You’ve made your points. I’ve made mine. I suppose it’s time to let the dust settle. :-)

Dondarrion.2748:

Filaha, the drop isn’t immediately in front, your lightning pull puts you on that peak and you have to make a slight turn and then drop down on the ledge. Not nitpicking, and apparently those I’m now advocating this case for have left the discussion, so I guess we can conclude here.

I refer you to my original directions again.
“… drop off the ledge immediately in front of you towards the big ledge”. As in, if you’re facing the big ledge, it’s immediately in front of you.

Why don’t the people struggling post screenshots of the area they are having issues with so ArenaNet can maybe adjust the terrain or the duration of the crystal buff? This isn’t to call people out or ridicule them. It’s to actually give constructive feedback.

@minbariguy:

Just some points you missed, cause not reading the whole thing (which I wouldn’t expect anyone to do at this point):

- Some people are just lazy. Lots of comments outright say (or imply) that they spent 30 seconds on the map and decided they can’t do it

- The difficulty of the ‘jumps’ is 0. That is, if you want to go to the story instances for the story and exploration – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6JDCxRUuMs
Oddly enough, I have a feeling that most complains come from (unadmittedly) the JP or the Coin hunting

- I don’t like the 3-headed wurm in Bloodtide Coast, organizing and particapating takes effort. Can I have an option to defeat it by doing the Skipping Stones JP 5 times in a row?

- There is already an alternative in the game for jumping. It’s a class called mesmers

Also the “anti-jumpers” or “jump-challanged” (oh lord) refuse to post screenshots/videos accept any kind of help.

As I stated in one of my previous posts, feel free to contact me and I will guide you through personally the map if you find it difficult.

I don’t believe people have a problem with jumping puzzle content, they just don’t want it added to the main story. They either just plain suck at jumping, don’t like it, or maybe because of some physical disability, they can’t do it. Either way, IMO, jumping puzzles should be optional only content that doesn’t interfere with the story (or living story) in any way. It hasn’t before, so why all of a sudden does it now.

So what’s optional content? To me, it’s anything that doesn’t interfere with either your personal story, the living story or map completion. Things like sPvP, WvW, World Bosses, jumping puzzles, and crafting are optional.

So, the best way to quiet down the pro jumping story crowd to teach them that maybe there is a time and place for jumping puzzles and it’s not meant for the living story…

Create a new map attached to dry top with a new living story, set of achievements, and new recipes and items for those who complete it.. but, make it an open world PvP map. To complete the living story, you have to survive, if not, too bad so sad, don’t expect Anet to cater to you, because there are people who like PvP, and it’s optional content remember?

Bubi.7942:

DeadlySynz:

Just some points you missed, cause not reading the whole thing (which I wouldn’t expect anyone to do at this point):

- Some people are just lazy. Lots of comments outright say (or imply) that they spent 30 seconds on the map and decided they can’t do it

- The difficulty of the ‘jumps’ is 0. That is, if you want to go to the story instances for the story and exploration – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6JDCxRUuMs
Oddly enough, I have a feeling that most complains come from (unadmittedly) the JP or the Coin hunting

- I don’t like the 3-headed wurm in Bloodtide Coast, organizing and particapating takes effort. Can I have an option to defeat it by doing the Skipping Stones JP 5 times in a row?

- There is already an alternative in the game for jumping. It’s a class called mesmers

Also the “anti-jumpers” or “jump-challanged” (oh lord) refuse to post screenshots/videos accept any kind of help.

As I stated in one of my previous posts, feel free to contact me and I will guide you through personally the map if you find it difficult.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Either way, IMO, jumping puzzles should be optional only content that doesn’t interfere with the story (or living story) in any way. It hasn’t before, so why all of a sudden does it now.

So what’s optional content? To me, it’s anything that doesn’t interfere with either your personal story, the living story or map completion.

Exactly, map completion can be considered main-content too. We have tons and tons of Vistas in the game since release, none of the jumps in the new map which are needed for the main content (story) are any more difficult than the Vistas in the game. Bubi made a gread video where he explained every single jump that is required perfectly. Please watch it everyone.

It may be true that people aren’t able of doing these jumps, sure. If that’s the case, then I don’t believe them when they say that they did every other main content in the game and can’t do the easier (compared to the content they’ve said they’ve done) actions.

And this is where I wonder if it’s really impossible for them (then they lied about having done every main-content before) or if they just find it annoying and want it removed because they don’t like it.

A lot of the jumping/anti-jumping stuff focuses on Dry Top. Apropos.
So how about this as a suggestion to the devs; tweak the design a bit (a very painful process, I know) and reconsider future designs with the following in mind:

Jumps are shortcuts.

So, using crystals gets you across to places much faster, but for the sake of making LS2 optimally accessible, there should be a path, however lengthy, to get to the same location. Don’t want to risk the quicksand? Use a monster-infested cave instead. Opening sandwaterfallthing a bit tricky? There’s a few ramps to use, but it takes longer.

I personally didn’t find it too difficult (but the lightning tether kittens me off something fierce for its bugginess), so I can keep up, but there are lots of people with performance issues and handicaps (like playing Charr…) that are feeling disenfranchised by the insistence of making things jump-focused.

Wow, this thread is still alive? I admire you all for your patience!
I was just going to add/repeat something here, it has probably been mentioned before but my memory of this thread is limited :p

In story instances you can still run back and forth through the aspect crystals until you have 1,5 minute on the timer.

Off topic:
Having finished the story on my 19th toon today, I’m looking forward to the next release. We had some speculation in Dry Top earlier regarding the corruption of the waypoints, it is quite possible that they all break and we have to start running everywhere, so put on your good boots

Raenzjar.4210:

They have said it many times in regards to all of their content.

I only visit certain aspects of this forum, incl. the ranger sub. Fancy providing an actual link to some of it?

Source: is a newb

I don’t have a link handy, but they’ve talked at length at various times about how much server side info they get. Most of their data is taken from the game. They know exactly how many people finish specific content, how long it takes on the average, and they even know how many people haven’t looked at their trait trees.

Anet is a company that puts a lot of stock in numbers, which is why when people come to the forums and say we don’t like X or Y and we think most people don’t either, Anet really does have those numbers.

One specific thing I remember is Anet telling us which dungeon was the least run dungeon in the game.

Here’s a link that shows one of their infographs. If you scroll down you can see some of the numbers. For example, how many people were killed by Risen Thrall during the first year, and how many times players revived other players during that year.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/28/guild-wars-2s-first-birthday-by-the-numbers/

What do you need screen shots and videos for? When you get near the top and try the first difficult jump over a long fall is the problem. You fall, and die, and there’s nobody there to rez you so it’s back to the start. 15 times of this (someone actually said 30 seconds) and I hate the story, the jumping and the whole game.

Let me try and put this in perspective for you. The next segment of the LS2 requires a new combination of jumping backwards while shooting targets at only maximum range, with a ranged weapon, and YOU CANT DO IT no matter how hard you try, and you consider using a Mesmer to get there to be like cheating.

Should you be prevented from completing any more of the LS2?

I’m glad the jumping is easy for you. Most of it is for me too. This is different, for a significant part of the player base. Are you prepared to lose them?

15 times of this (someone actually said 30 seconds) and I hate the story, the jumping and the whole game.

so you’re one of these people who do things they don’t enjoy?! Facepalm.