Guild Wars 2

hannah mee.7925:

Tears.5627:

I think it would be really cool if she is drilling into LA to free Mursaat. You want a twist, that would be one. After all the White Mantle used to serve Mursaat and LA was held by them. In the human personal story for if you select that you never knew your parents you come across some white mantle showing they are still around.

Nah…she’d have no need to drill. Although I imagine in some update we may see Mursaat come from the Isle of Janthir. Possibly the Seers too although my hunch is the Seers were Orrian. The Ancient races are really a good point in lore that could be, yet haven’t been, used by Arena Net. Mostly because they need to keep their cards close to their chest on it because if they spill all the beans then there will be nothing left to fall back on.

Volstag.6371:

I have also considered how Scarlet felt about the meddlesome humans. What if…she isn’t talking directly about “us” but about the movements of the Ministry/White Mantle? I theorize that at Caudecus’s Manor, the Queen was abducted and replaced with Mesmer Illusions. It is only after the manor that the Queen sends Logan away and now the Shinning Blade will not even let him near the Queen. It is possible a shadow war between Scarlet’s Alliance and the White Mantle have been fighting over the bloodstones, both needing the Queen to “seal” the deal. That would explain the attack on the Jubilee. It is the Mesmer illusion shattering as Lord Faren reaches for it that anyone one knows different. If that is true then the Shinning Blade could actually be controlled by the White Mantel as well. Could this all lead up to us confronting the Queen and discovering that she is a Watchknight in disguise? That could lead to Logan being banished to Ebonhawk and/or the Search for the Queen, (wild guess is she is in Cantha) and that the Ministry of Purity there is actually controlled by the White Mantle.

You are nuts. I like the theory about war over the Bloodstones though or just the Bloodstone thing in general. I refuse to believe she’s doing all of this to kill some dragon – I believe she’s a power hungry maniac and, well, that’s a pretty kitten big source of power right there. However two things:

1) Shining Blade is not controlled by the White Mantle. Perhaps though they do know something is amiss and want to distance The Seraph and other races because the Shining Blade are pretty much self-professed experts at battling evil even though it took a random hero from Old Ascalon to save their sorry kitten (ahem).

2) Ministry of Purity has nothing to do with it. They just have no reason to, their lore just isn’t anywhere near the mark. End of discussion on that.

I agree. I am just hoping that we are going to get blindsided with “Guess what? The Mursaat were making the dragons stay in hibernation and by killing a great number the ‘Heroes’ of GW1 actually screwed the world over.” =)

This symbol looks very familiar can anyone tell me what it is? I can’t seem to find it anywhere

Tears.5627:

I agree. I am just hoping that we are going to get blindsided with “Guess what? The Mursaat were making the dragons stay in hibernation and by killing a great number the ‘Heroes’ of GW1 actually screwed the world over.” =)

I don’t see that happening. In GW1 is was explicitly expressed that the Mursaat killed The Chosen to keep the Door of Komalie closed, which is a passage to the Realm of Torment. I don’t think that they would be bold enough to go in that direction but I still think there is untapped lore to be used in the older races. Why everything has to be turned around on the dragons is beyond me.

Syryn.7591:

This symbol looks very familiar can anyone tell me what it is? I can’t seem to find it anywhere

I don’t know whether this is meaningful, but that is the same as the “Symbol of the Inquest” you find as a fine or exotic item:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_the_Inquest_

VOLKON.1290:

Hey! HEY! Look at the fourth image. Look at it again. Look at it carefully.

Yes… it’s true…

FLYING DOLYAK MOUNTS confirmed!

Now that made me laugh. I am excited about the dragon-like creature on her ceiling. This is also probably the most positive thread I’ve seen over the last few months.

I hope the dragon eats her like that mako shark did in Deep Blue Sea with Samuel L. Jackson.

I’m still intrigued by the skeleton in that cage… Whom could it belong to? :O

hannah mee.7925:

I’m just curious though about why she would want to fight Primordius and what connection it would have to do with Queen Jennah,

Why would it need to have any connection to Queen Jennah? We were kind of told blatantly by the writers that her attack on the Queen was more of an impulse action, rather than something she planned well.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

hannah mee.7925:

I’m just curious though about why she would want to fight Primordius and what connection it would have to do with Queen Jennah,

Why would it need to have any connection to Queen Jennah? We were kind of told blatantly by the writers that her attack on the Queen was more of an impulse action, rather than something she planned well.

Why? to make a believable and worthy villain. One consistent with lore and the way the world is presented. Something that is an asset to the game, not an embarrassment.
In this particular instant there is a severe lack of ‘genius at work’ who steals the watchknights, and instead fruitcake who decides on a vague assassination and to have a series of absurd duels with us. And as a side project steals watchknights and converts/corrupts them to something else and mass produces them at industrial capacity.

The Kurt.2518:

I’m still intrigued by the skeleton in that cage… Whom could it belong to? :O

Omadd ? We know that he’s dead and connected to Scarlet after all.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Syryn.7591:

This symbol looks very familiar can anyone tell me what it is? I can’t seem to find it anywhere

I don’t know whether this is meaningful, but that is the same as the “Symbol of the Inquest” you find as a fine or exotic item:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_the_Inquest_

Thank you! I knew it looked familiar!

I don’t know if this has anything to do with Scarlet’s future plans but it does show that there is a lot that we don’t know about the sylvari.
Malyck the sylvari you encounter in the personal story playing as a sylvari when you choose “Where life goes, so too, should you”. For those who don’t know he’s a sylvari who wasn’t born of the Pale tree we know of.
What’s interesting about him is that he doesn’t have any memory of the Dream all sylvari do. Even though the tree from which he was born might not have had a dream at all he is more like the sylvari of the Pale tree than of the Nightmare court. But he was never forced to either choose the Dream or the Nightmare, and this is what makes me think of Scarlet. In the story “What Scarlet saw” she says “I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare”. Also in the Nightmare Chambers she mentions things related to your personal story, if you’ve chosen the one with Malyck she says “I know Malyck’s secret too.” I think she saw everything and i mean everything the past, present and future of the world, i’m not implying that seeing how other sylvari live made her abstain from choosing Dream or Nightmare and pursuing her own path.However i do think she knows more than any living thing knows and that overload of information is what made her the way she is now. Other than knowing about the impending doom of the world she knows all it’s secrets, where Malyck came from, what the dragons are planing, she knows the origin of everything and it’s demise. But what she plans to do with that knowledge is a mystery to me, i’m probably leaning more toward the “she actually wants to do something good in a bad way” theory. In my opinion she either want’s to fight whatever is bringing the mentioned impending doom or she’s one of those “i’ll save your souls from what’s coming by killing you all” psychopaths.

After finally playing persona 4 and finishing it, I just realized the entire scarlet event from last year is really a pile of ****. 99% of the story in the main gw2 is just as awful. I’m not sure if anyone else agrees with me, but this content design of story telling has to stop. Living story of… recycled animations, sound tracks and ridiculous “balance changes” to profession skillsets, along with 10 minutes worth of story telling dialogue (with equally bad lines),

Scarlet: I’m setting more monsters onto all of Tyria since I failed to kill the queen! “Says 100 times of die.” (what’s with the new marionette boss? Can’t really tell because the event failed 5 + times, and I just gave up.)
Hero: I will stop you by hitting your monster bosses for the next 3 months!
Scarlet: I will finish this with a finale of vague reasons to why I did it and hitting certain important areas!

Honestly, in the first place, what good does killing queen jennah do? (Others say kidnap, but it looks like Scarlet is trying to kill the queen as I remember it. Scarlet shot at the queen, and did not proceed further to catch her or anything, you guys are overthinking things.) Actually, if queen jennah or some other major character died (I dunno, knut whitebear?), I would have taken out my popcorn and read a tale of revenge or watch tyria collapse due to politics.

That will be fun. Maybe even gather some living story stuff where players decide the future of Tyria by having an alliance with factions. This thing with Scarlet? Not so much. It’s awful boring and the recent “living story” is becoming impossible to complete thanks to people failing randomly.

Anim.1605:

i’m probably leaning more toward the “she actually wants to do something good in a bad way” theory. In my opinion she either want’s to fight whatever is bringing the mentioned impending doom or she’s one of those “i’ll save your souls from what’s coming by killing you all” psychopaths.

I sure hope they never ever lean toward an InFamous Kessler route. That was the biggest letdown of an ending I’ve ever had.

LoneWolfie.1852:

After finally playing persona 4 and finishing it, I just realized the entire scarlet event from last year is really a pile of ****. 99% of the story in the main gw2 is just as awful. I’m not sure if anyone else agrees with me, but this content design of story telling has to stop. Living story of… recycled animations, sound tracks and ridiculous “balance changes” to profession skillsets, along with 10 minutes worth of story telling dialogue (with equally bad lines),

Scarlet: I’m setting more monsters onto all of Tyria since I failed to kill the queen! “Says 100 times of die.” (what’s with the new marionette boss? Can’t really tell because the event failed 5 + times, and I just gave up.)
Hero: I will stop you by hitting your monster bosses for the next 3 months!
Scarlet: I will finish this with a finale of vague reasons to why I did it and hitting certain important areas!

Honestly, in the first place, what good does killing queen jennah do? (Others say kidnap, but it looks like Scarlet is trying to kill the queen as I remember it. Scarlet shot at the queen, and did not proceed further to catch her or anything, you guys are overthinking things.) Actually, if queen jennah or some other major character died (I dunno, knut whitebear?), I would have taken out my popcorn and read a tale of revenge or watch tyria collapse due to politics.

That will be fun. Maybe even gather some living story stuff where players decide the future of Tyria by having an alliance with factions. This thing with Scarlet? Not so much. It’s awful boring and the recent “living story” is becoming impossible to complete thanks to people failing randomly.

I’m inclined to agree that the storytelling as dropped the ball but I don’t think Scarlet’s character is to blame (yet). It’s definitely spiraling downhill, but a good puzzle is one that keeps you guessing until the end. So as long as the idea about Scarlet’s motivations are wrong, I think I can see some hope. The story can be salvaged, every story can, it’s just a matter of the conclusion.

I can’t help but think of the movie The Prestige.

Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called “The Pledge.” The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course… it probably isn’t.

The second act is called “The Turn.” The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you’re looking for the secret… but you won’t find it, because of course you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn’t clap yet. Because making something disappear isn’t enough; you have to bring it back.

That’s why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige.”

We’ve seen The Pledge, Scarlet is a semi-ordinary sylvari doing semi-ordinary bad things. Now we’ve seen The Turn where all of her motivations seem to shed some light. But it doesn’t deserve anything special, it just seems like she did a bunch of stuff with ordinary things. It’s all about The Prestige, the character arc needs a full circle to be completed.

There is a resemblance between Scarlet’s dragon painting and this early concept art of Mordremoth.

Oh, good find, WatchTheShow. That head is pretty definitely the painting one. I’m looking forward to what new things we might get on Tuesday beyond the Edge map, as I’m sure the nonPvP world will have a lot of stuff. Hopefully it won’t be all marked with huge gold stars and we can happen on it, as we did on the Kessex deforestation.

WatchTheShow.7203:

There is a resemblance between Scarlet’s dragon painting and this early concept art of Mordremoth.

Wow! The resemblance is huge! I mean look at it’s face! Good job!

@WatchTheShow : Very nice find.

One friend told me ingame to look closer at the dragon’s maw : it appears that the painting points to a location on Scarlet’s screen

See the pictures. I do not claim that mordemoth is below southsun cove, I claim that the painting is pointing at three different locations in tyria. Southsun is one of the best candidate because of its “unexplored” state compared to the other ones but I cannot rule out the other locations.

Why is everyone here forgetting about the possibility of getting an abaddon fractal? What if the red eye was not of a dragon but was one of abaddons eyes? And what if abaddon is passing on all his secrets to scarlet, that would drive her insane. I bet the poison from the toxic tower is going to be used to free the sylvari from the dream and nightmare. Bet that is why she stole the anti-toxin injector to use her poison with that injector on the pale tree

Lsdkill.1309:

Why is everyone here forgetting about the possibility of getting an abaddon fractal?

Because it doesn’t exist. The majority of the votes went to Kiel, so the Abaddon fractal did not get made, and thus is not under discussion. It never happened.

the living story tie in with whatever fractal they chose to make i’m guessing would have simply been something to convey the nature of certain energies throughout tyria.. mesmeric, chaos, un-corrupted, harnessed, ambient, corrupted, draconic..

The Kurt.2518:

I’m still intrigued by the skeleton in that cage… Whom could it belong to? :O

it belongs to mordremoth, and abboddon told her to do it..
y’know, cuz everything gw2 is jungle dragon/fallen god

WatchTheShow.7203:

There is a resemblance between Scarlet’s dragon painting and this early concept art of Mordremoth.

Strange… that’s exactly what I told a guild mate of mine just yesterday whilst comparing those images. I so hope you are right.

Still I don’t see the connection between the jungle dragon and all the probes and the drill… I’m excited to see what ANet is aiming at with this LS.

perilisk.1874:

I think the more important takeaway is that all the complaining on the forums caused anet to scrap its plans to implement several of Scarlet’s alliances, like the Screttin Alliance, the Flipperhoof Alliance, the Wished-For-New-Player-Race Alliance, the Cult of Frozen Cargo Alliance, and many more. Stick to your guns, forumgoers. You really can make a difference.

This guy is joking right? It was obviously a tongue-in-cheek response to that trash on the forums.
Yes it’s important to speak up but you can’t seriously think Anet was just going to throw another alliance at us.

WatchTheShow.7203:

There is a resemblance between Scarlet’s dragon painting and this early concept art of Mordremoth.

Nice Find!

I refined my thoughts on scarlet and also drew the mental picture i had of the dragons fight with the pale tree. I wanted to share them with you, so here we go:
Scarlets Grand Design

Scarlet studied all kinds of magic, collected chemicals and devices and built armies for one purpose: To enslave or drain the Dragons and make herself the god of this world.

Why is this her goal?

In the mists scarlet saw that the pale tree is growing on the Elder Dragon Mordremoth and how the tree drains/enslaves the Dragon feeding on its magic.
(The dragon fighting against this are the red thorns we see strangling the tree, which results in the nightmare. This is also why we saw signs of all dragons except Mordremoth.)
Tree and Dragon both want her to join them in the fight against each other but her answer to that is:

‘I reject the notion that that I must choose the Dream or be lost to Nightmare.’

So she rids herself of the influences mentioned in her journal and, through the mental link with the pale tree, takes the dragons power for herself. (scarlet thorns)

This experience taught her that dragons can be used and she decided to do so.

Why form the alliances?
(this part is still work in progress)

To prepare for enslaving the 4 remaining Dragons she formed 4 armies suited for the challenge. Deepsea – Toxic (enhancing the krait to be even better underwater-soldiers), Primordus – Molten Alliance (fire is no challenge for the molten), Jormag – Clockwork (because machines don’t feel the cold) and Kralkatorrik – Aetherblades (using chaosmagic themselves they are likely to succeed).

What next?

Scarlet has found Primordus under Lions Arch so she will go to him through us and burn a big hole in Lions Arch destroying the Asura gates forcing us to use the ones in Eastern Ward and giving Lions Arch an entrance to the Depths of Tyria.

Prod.3610:

In the mists scarlet saw that the pale tree is growing on the Elder Dragon Mordremoth

That is impossible. The Elder Dragons predate the Pale Tree by hundreds and thousands of years.

yes, much like the earth predates actual trees by 4 billion years
therefore.. trees can’t grow on the earth

cheshirefox.7026:

yes, much like the earth predates actual trees by 4 billion years
therefore.. trees can’t grow on the earth

The Elder Dragons are not a planet. Other races have been at war with these beings. They’ve moved around. And when the seeds of the Pale Tree were removed from a cave, and planted somewhere completely different… they just happened to plant them on top of Mordremoth?

Not to mention the fact that there ARE other sentient trees besides the Pale Tree. It isn’t unique. Besides, if the Pale Tree had been planted on top of a Jungle Dragon, it would have been corrupted. But since it has free will, it clearly wasn’t.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The Elder Dragons are not a planet. Other races have been at war with these beings. They’ve moved around. And when the seeds of the Pale Tree were removed from a cave, and planted somewhere completely different… they just happened to plant them on top of Mordremoth?

Not to mention the fact that there ARE other sentient trees besides the Pale Tree. It isn’t unique. Besides, if the Pale Tree had been planted on top of a Jungle Dragon, it would have been corrupted. But since it has free will, it clearly wasn’t.

I don’t know, the tree has had 250 years to grow and it’s quite possible that just recently it has strangled the dragon – at least three known trees that could have been planted on top of the dragon. In fact, strangling the dragon could be the reason why the trees started giving life. I’d still like to believe that Ventari’s magic is stronger than the Dragon’s corruption because I’m sucker for GW1 and instead of the dragon corrupting the planted trees, the trees instead took life and made the Sylvari.

hannah mee.7925:

I’d still like to believe that Ventari’s magic is stronger than the Dragon’s corruption because I’m sucker for GW1 and instead of the dragon corrupting the planted trees, the trees instead took life and made the Sylvari.

What magic? The Ventari Tablet is not a magical tablet. It’s a stone with writing on it. That’s it.

either way, all i can hope agaisnt all else is that if it is an elder dragon, the fight is a hell of a lot better than the shambles that is the zhaitan final fight.

i did it last night and oh my days it was horrific.

According to the devs, they are aware of how bad it is. It is a battle that probably fell victim to tight deadlines, and rushing the game to the store. Hopefully they’ll patch it at some point. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a Zhaitan world boss in a new Orr zone, that gives Zhaitan a more worthy battle.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

According to the devs, they are aware of how bad it is. It is a battle that probably fell victim to tight deadlines, and rushing the game to the store. Hopefully they’ll patch it at some point. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a Zhaitan world boss in a new Orr zone, that gives Zhaitan a more worthy battle.

I first completed zhaitan over a year ago and i heard the same thing about anet patching it back then. that’s why i went back with a diff char in the vain hope it had been fixed. it still hasnt been done and i doubt they have it on their priority list atm considering all this new stuff they’re bring out which i suppose is fair enough.

either way, the new bosses that were fighting now are good so i cant expect it to be as bad as zhaitan was.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The Elder Dragons are not a planet. Other races have been at war with these beings.
Not to mention the fact that there ARE other sentient trees besides the Pale Tree. It isn’t unique. Besides, if the Pale Tree had been planted on top of a Jungle Dragon, it would have been corrupted. But since it has free will, it clearly wasn’t.

the core of the theory is that the tree drew the energy from the dragon while it was sleeping and defenseless/did not see the tree as danger. Now plants can only grow as strong as their soil is, now i would say a dragon would make for some very rich soil. In leaching its magic the tree got stronger and the dragon weaker, hence the dragon was captured and unconscious unable to fight back.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And when the seeds of the Pale Tree were removed from a cave, and planted somewhere completely different… they just happened to plant them on top of Mordremoth?

Not to mention the fact that there ARE other sentient trees besides the Pale Tree. It isn’t unique.

you are contradicting yourself, if there are many trees then the chance of one being on the top of or close enough to roots of normal trees can find water after-all i guess magic trees could find magic. Also, have you never seen how destiny in RPGs makes unlikely events happen all the time?

The thing unique about our tree are the sylvari, which could be a result of the dragon.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Besides, if the Pale Tree had been planted on top of a Jungle Dragon, it would have been corrupted. But since it has free will, it clearly wasn’t.

A small parasite like a tapeworm does not look mighty yet it can kill the giant beast called men without getting harmed. Also what do you mean by not corrupted, the nightmare grows stronger every day. Also the Nightmare is basically a split in the collective mind of the pale tree + sylvari, i do call that severe…

SPOILER WARNING FROM EOTM

It appears the beacon in LA has turned green.

At least we know exactly now where the giant drill will be put to use. (not really a surprize after all). By the way does the beacon location corresponds with the red cross on the map ? How about the other crosses ?

We also know that Canach is gonna make a come back very soon. He’s just telling you over and over that’s he’s the good guy (and hero tron should be waiting around the corner too).

And I guess that we have to wait for hotfix to discover what the **** are Braham and Taimi doing in the mists.

The problem is that the probe is not really green when you go there… is still red, and so are all the others…
it was the first thing I checked… still hoping my theory is right

Prod.3610:

The thing unique about our tree are the sylvari, which could be a result of the dragon.

The problem with that is, it isn’t unique!
There are Sylvari from other trees than the Pale Tree. So that totally blows that hypothesis out of the water.

There is an unmarked, unattended probe over in Bloodtide Coast – I don’t know if it was simply overlooked, or if it has anything to do with anything. Nobody around it but local mobs.

galen ubal.2807:

There is an unmarked, unattended probe over in Bloodtide Coast – I don’t know if it was simply overlooked, or if it has anything to do with anything. Nobody around it but local mobs.

There, in fact, three. The probes that attract the three Wurm heads during the big event.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

There are Sylvari from other trees than the Pale Tree. So that totally blows that hypothesis out of the water.

only the theory in no way depends on the Sylvari being related to the dragon, this just makes our tree even more ordinary and the chance of it being planted on/near the dragon more likely.

btw what is your stance on the sylvari/scarlet/the pale tree? what/who ‘are they’/‘do they serve’? and why have we not had any sign of Mordremoth? Also why is the personification of the nightmare a dragon?

Prod.3610:

only the theory in no way depends on the Sylvari being related to the dragon, this just makes our tree even more ordinary and the chance of it being planted on/near the dragon more likely.

We don’t know how many Pale Trees there are. And Tyria is a big place. There could be many, there could be few. The number of these trees in no way increases or decreases the chances of our Pale Tree being planted on top of an Elder Dragon. And if the Sylvari aren’t related to the dragons, then what is the point of suggesting the Pale Tree was planted on top of an elder dragon? It makes the argument pretty pointless.

Prod.3610:

btw what is your stance on the sylvari/scarlet/the pale tree? what/who ‘are they’/‘do they serve’? and why have we not had any sign of Mordremoth? Also why is the personification of the nightmare a dragon?

Mordremoth hasn’t been introduced yet. A Jungle Dragon has merely been hinted at, and mentioned outside the game by some of the developers. That is why we haven’t seen any sign of him yet. They have yet to introduce a Jungle Dragon.

Regarding Scarlet, we’ll find out more about her as the Living Story progresses. I personally think her madness is related to an Elder Dragon, but my bet is on Primordus frankly. That’s because of the drill, and the pictures of eyes in her lair.

Regarding the Dragon appearing in the Dream, the whole game revolves around dragons. I wouldn’t instantly draw a connection to a Jungle Dragon, just because there’s a plant-like dragon nightmare in the Dream. It’s not impossible either. Konig suggested that a Jungle Dragon could be attempting to corrupt Sylvari mentally. However, I think it’s too early to draw any hard connections between dream-imagery and an actual Jungle Dragon. At the time of the Sylvari intro, everyone is fighting Zhaitan, so it makes sense for the nightmares to contain a dragon-shape.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Regarding Scarlet, we’ll find out more about her as the Living Story progresses. I personally think her madness is related to an Elder Dragon, but my bet is on Primordus frankly. That’s because of the drill, and the pictures of eyes in her lair.

We’ve seen a fair bit of evidence either way as to which dragon might be next, but nothing definitive. To be honest despite having pushed the Mordremoth theory earlier I am now leaning towards it being Primordius after the last update.

It’s pretty clear that she’s found what she’s looking for under LA, and it’s almost certain that it’s a dragon. Obviously if the Pale Tree is growing on top of Mordremoth (I don’t think it is, but I have a hunch that Mordremoth does have some sort of relationship with it) then it can’t be Mordremoth under LA.

So, Scarlet intends intends to wake the sleeping dragon under Lion’s Arch, and then bring her armies there to either:

1) Defend it in its waking state, as the dragon’s voice has been coercing her to do.
2) Bring it down (with the help of the powerful weapons she has been testing on us for the last year) as the voice of the malicious God has been coercing her to do.

Oddly enough, after recent discussions with Konig, I’m now more inclined to say Zhaitan might be involved. Primordus is still a close second. But the mysterious surge in power for Tequatl which is still unanswered, and the hope that they might fix the Zhaitan fight, and make it something epic, has me straying from the Primordus theory a bit.

I’m pretty much of the mind it’s primordus. We had the birth of the Pale Tree in the first game, there may be a bigger connection to the jungle dragon, but i don’t think it’s going there.

I also don’t think (or at least i hope it’s not) going to be a fight in LA. We aren’t that far out of the Karka event, i’d rather not see a recycle of that, it was a pretty huge mess.

Someone mention the sign in LA about Maw. The Marionette is smack dab on the spot where you could reliably find Maw the Mountain Heart spawn in GW (it even wiped out the original POI and the carcase). There may be some significance to that as well, since after all, he is a wurm and we did get the 3 jungle wurms battle.

How any of the would tie into prim? hard to say. Seems too convenient though, they could have put the Marionette anywhere.

Scarlet’s dragon painting :>
But Scarlet drew a more dangerous weapon… a dolyak with a rocket on it xD

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And if the Sylvari aren’t related to the dragons, then what is the point of suggesting the Pale Tree was planted on top of an elder dragon? It makes the argument pretty pointless.

I did not say they are not related i said the dragon does not have to be their origin. But the dragon could very well influence the Sylvari and Pale Tree. This one Pale Tree is special because the players originate from it, because Scarlet originates from it and because major parts of the story revolve around it. Also this Pale Tree is basically a character the player knows and if there would be a big revelation around it it would have a bigger emotional impact. We also know more about this Tree than any other.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Mordremoth hasn’t been introduced yet. A Jungle Dragon has merely been hinted at, and mentioned outside the game by some of the developers. That is why we haven’t seen any sign of him yet. They have yet to introduce a Jungle Dragon.

The Deepsea-Dragon and Primordus also have not been introduced to us yet (in this game to the character and most parts of the world), but we know from the Krait, Quaggan, Largos and Karka that the Dragon stirs and the minions of Primordus have long started to plague the underground (which also has driven races like the Asura to the surface) and are starting to invade the surface more and more.

We have seen signs of every Elder Dragon be it ever so far away or hidden beneath miles and miles of water and earth but not of the one sitting right in the middle of all of us and i am telling you something is holding it back. It does not even have to be our Pale Tree alone, what if they have joined forces and are all draining it of its power?

Do you know the Pando Tree (wiki-link included) it is basically a whole forest (43 hectares (106 acres)) that is just one gigantic organism (a giant root-cluster with trees popping up to the surface). This is something we have in reality so i would not be surprised if all the Pale Trees (in a fantasy universe) would be connected (not one organism in this case of course because they have been planted separately but maybe they have connected later).

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I personally think her madness is related to an Elder Dragon, but my bet is on Primordus frankly. That’s because of the drill, and the pictures of eyes in her lair.

I do agree currently her actions are focused on Primordus and this will likely be the Dragon we might see in the next patches but i think it would be much more appealing and interesting if the influence on her is from another source.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

At the time of the Sylvari intro, everyone is fighting Zhaitan, so it makes sense for the nightmares to contain a dragon-shape.

This actually makes a lot of sense but still i think in this case it would have been a undead dragon as there is no reason to have something plantyfied in a dream.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Oddly enough, after recent discussions with Konig, I’m now more inclined to say Zhaitan might be involved. Primordus is still a close second. But the mysterious surge in power for Tequatl which is still unanswered, and the hope that they might fix the Zhaitan fight, and make it something epic, has me straying from the Primordus theory a bit.

I also think Zhaitan is still there but i also think we will not get rid of him or see him so soon, i think all the Dragons will get more present over time and i hope we will have all 6 of them around when the end-times come although i don’t think we will have a fight on all sides as this would be very hard to realize from a game design point of view.

So i don’t think Zhaitan will be in the next patch, even more so since i have a hard time thinking of Zhaitan burrowing around underground.

Cormac.3871:

So, Scarlet intends intends to wake the sleeping dragon under Lion’s Arch, and then bring her armies there to either:

1) Defend it in its waking state, as the dragon’s voice has been coercing her to do.
2) Bring it down (with the help of the powerful weapons she has been testing on us for the last year) as the voice of the malicious God has been coercing her to do.

Another option would be to open it and let us deal with the Dragon “setting two forces against each other to the detriment of both” although i don’t know why she would want to sabotage Lions Arch (not caring about it and going through it is one thing, but attacking it?). This is why would like to think she has something else something more sophisticated, something worthy of someone who aced all Asura collages in record time up her sleeve, something that puts this dragon up against another (Jormag preferably) but i can’t think of a way to do that.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

According to the devs, they are aware of how bad it is. It is a battle that probably fell victim to tight deadlines, and rushing the game to the store. Hopefully they’ll patch it at some point. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for a Zhaitan world boss in a new Orr zone, that gives Zhaitan a more worthy battle.

They only need to add a forced teleport after you knock Zhaitan down. He falls, your party is dragged to the Mists to fight his soul, of which you do crap damage and survive for 1 minute before your dead mentor from your order appears along with Snaff and gives you what you need to kill him, and helps you do it. Zhaitan’s soul is shattered, removing him forever, you have a tearful farewell with your mentor, and Snaff gives you a message to give to Destiny’s Edge, and then you’re thrown back onto the airship, where you have a talk with DE and give them the message. Then dungeon ends.

While it’s not directly related to the hideout, i have noticed something interesting today when doing a personal story on a recently made alt. In the order of Whispers introductory cinematics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJfE-C3T7E) there are two things that drew my interest:
with the words “It doesn’t matter where the dragons came from and why they awakened” the globe is shown with something that looks really like the power leylines. Major power leylines. This i already knew (something similar is in the order’s base after all). But just after that a chandelier is shown… a chandelier that looks too much like upside-down twisted marionette. And there weren’t any twisted marionettes at the time yet, right?

I wouldn’t say one dragon couldn’t be under both the Grove and LA. Dragons are big. We saw hints before game that a mountain range could be a sleeping dragon. Of course, that’s hard to implement in game — it’s bad enough that we fight the Shatterer’s big toe, imagine the silliness if we tried to melee a mountain range. But lore wise? Sure. A gigantic force of nature doesn’t have to exist on a human scale.

Astralporing, the leylines angle is intriguing. I disagree about the chandalier, however, to me it’s just a geared arrangement of the same style as the Whispers weapons and doesn’t look like marionette stuff at all.

Is it worth hypothesising that if Mordremoth is a plant dragon and is stirring, then some of the leylines could be roots, tapping and sucking magic towards him from beneath the surface?

We saw Zhaitan actively having magical artefacts brought to him. Could Mordremoth be doing the same, just like a tree? If that’s the case, the Pale Tree, along with other trees like it, could have been planted along one of these lines, currently dormant because the dragon is asleep, but which tap into the magic that flows along them. It could account for how they gained sentience and their widespread believe that they are there to fight dragons.

As for LA, I like the bloodstone theory at the moment. The CTC was under the Shiverpeaks, which, tbh, puts the Priory and Marionette closer to his location than LA. If it’s too much of a stretch to say an attack on LA is an attack on Mordremoth, how is Primordious any better? Neither dragon is based in the city.

I also found it remarkably coincidental that the only beacon to flash green happens to do so in LA, and at a point where our character is conveniently looking at it. Just because LA turned green, does that preclude the same thing having happened elsewhere?

I do agree that LA is looking as though it will get a restructure, one which will probably destroy the asura gates (and hopefully not too much of Old Lion’s Arch, because nostalgia). Quite probably the ones in Eastern Ward are backups made ready against an eventuality of this sort, although it’s interesting that there are more than strictly necessary for the five racial cities we have at present. Preparations for a sixth race’s city at the very least?

Finally, I buy more readily into the theory that if Scarlet is any kind of dragon champion, it would be Mordremoth. So far, although not absolutely, the dragons have patterns in the minions they create/corrupt. Destroyers are almost all made purely from lava, imitations of creatures. Icebrood are frozen, literally transformed into corrupted ice in order to be minions. Minions of Zhaitain die or are already dead. Kralky has the brand, and morphs creatures into crystal. Mordremoth is presumably a plant dragon, so it would make sense that plants are his preferred minion.

I don’t think the Pale Tree is a Champion, but the Nightmare Court being unable to return to Dreamer status is very reminiscent of the Svanir passing a point and becoming Icebrood, from which there is no return. The difference is that so far, Mordremoth appears to still be dormant, which would explain the Court’s continuing free will.

On that theme, and especially with the dialogue from the current LS update, the theory seems to be that whatever she saw was connected to her mind. If there’s a dragon involved, the only one close enough to her nature which fits the hints is Mordremoth. It would, too, explain her dismissal of the court and how she uses them as a tool – if she becomes a Champion, they are quite literally beneath her, especially if they’re on the road to becoming minions themselves.

TottWriter.8591:

If it’s too much of a stretch to say an attack on LA is an attack on Mordremoth, how is Primordus any better? Neither dragon is based in the city.

I’ll tell you why.

• We know Primordus is underground (we don’t know where the Jungle Dragon is).
• We know Scarlet has a giant drill.
• We know the Depths of Tyria are right underneath Lion’s Arch. A large underground system connected to the Central Transfer Chamber, where Primordus rests at the time of GW1 (he has likely moved now).
• We know Primordus’ minions have popped up all over Tyria, including areas very close to Lion’s Arch (we do not yet know who the minions of Mordremoth are, even though we have suspicions).
• Scarlet has paintings of a large red eye in her lair. The GW1 Eye of the North campaign ends with a cinematic in which we see a close up of the large red eye of Primordus opening.

Watch the cinematic, and tell me that doesn’t make Primordus extremely likely.

Astralporing.1957:

While it’s not directly related to the hideout, i have noticed something interesting today when doing a personal story on a recently made alt. In the order of Whispers introductory cinematics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBJfE-C3T7E) there are two things that drew my interest:
with the words “It doesn’t matter where the dragons came from and why they awakened” the globe is shown with something that looks really like the power leylines. Major power leylines. This i already knew (something similar is in the order’s base after all). But just after that a chandelier is shown… a chandelier that looks too much like upside-down twisted marionette. And there weren’t any twisted marionettes at the time yet, right?

“Q: In the Order of Whispers lair, we can see a huge planetarium. But it doesn’t seem to correspond to Tyrian continents. What are the blue areas on it? Of what use is this item for the Order?
Jeff: The huge orb is the Order Threat Assessment Board, indicating draconic and other supernatural threats on a huge scale. Much of the globe has not been explored by the Order, and as a result that space is used as expanded views for the areas that they are monitoring, and the end result does not look like the “real” world outside to someone just walking in (think of walking up behind a programmer when their screen is filled with code).”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dolyak-Express-Jan-10-2014/page/3#post3496852