Is it too hard? Respect the awesome work

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Posted by: Aerlen.5326

Aerlen.5326

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

Going to have to agree with that. If you bought the ICC you really have no right to call yourself hardcore. Josh even compared it to using a Game Genie. If you did everything without it… well, hats off to you.

I feel the same way if you used a TM guide.

If you used a guide and the ICC and are complaining TM mode is now “too easy”.. kitten off. You made it easier on purpose, you nerfed your own content.

~Tarnished Coast Pride~

Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.

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Posted by: Adamantium.3682

Adamantium.3682

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

Going to have to agree with that. If you bought the ICC you really have no right to call yourself hardcore. Josh even compared it to using a Game Genie. If you did everything without it… well, hats off to you.

I feel the same way if you used a TM guide.

If you used a guide and the ICC and are complaining TM mode is now “too easy”.. kitten off. You made it easier on purpose, you nerfed your own content.

I would agree on the guilde, but not the ICC.

It just sounds like sour grapes to me, saying that because you completed it with the ICC you cheated, or it is not a real accomplishment. And as I said before, chances are most of the people saying that have not completed it at all otherwise you would know differently.

Trying to take the glory away from someone else because you can’t or are unwilling to earn if for yourself is petty.

I have about 6 stacks of [250 baubles] in my bank. I have over 30 continue coins with out doing a single jumping puzzle. It didn’t take me that many lives to beat Tribulation mode.

I even considered buying a continue coin after I had completed it in order to farm it with out having to stop to farm coins.

That is all it does, is saves you time to buy coins, it does not help you beat the content.

I am proud to have beaten Tribulation mode, and expecially proud now to have done it before the patch, and I think no less of the people who did the same with an ICC.

People might have said it is too easy now. I don’t think that is true, but it IS easier now and that is not what those of us who IMO Tribulation mode was made for want.

Did the Tribulation/World 2 nerf ruin the content? No. But the reason why some of us are reacting strongly toward it is because it sets a scary precident.

There is no shortage of easy/casual/light/fun whatever you want to call it, cotent in guild wars 2. But why the people that can’t complete the one piece of challenging content out there begrudge those of us who want it that challenging is beyond me.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

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Posted by: Adamantium.3682

Adamantium.3682

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
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Posted by: fungihoujo.8476

fungihoujo.8476

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

If you’re dying, then you clearly aren’t finding it to be a cakewalk. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where I’ve died thousands of times and said ‘oh ya, that game is easy’. Even Dark Souls, which I died easily hundreds of times when I started playing, I don’t call an ‘easy’ game simply because I can now do a low SL run without much difficulty.

If you are going to call something easy, show us some proof that it is super easy- but when people say ‘I died thousands of times… so easy’ it makes you look like a kitten. You don’t try and fail thousands of times at easy things- perhaps you need to play a few easy games to figure that out?

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

Going to have to agree with that. If you bought the ICC you really have no right to call yourself hardcore. Josh even compared it to using a Game Genie. If you did everything without it… well, hats off to you.

So you’re saying you’re more hardcore for farming an extremely large amount of continue coins, wasting hours, instead of just converting gold to get it. Okay, sure. I guess farming is ‘hardcore’ now.

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Posted by: LadyRhonwyn.2501

LadyRhonwyn.2501

Looks like this patch broke some things… I’m seeing rainbows!

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

Ok see now that is an accurate statement. Saying that the jumps do not require precision just because you know where to jump is not.

There are some very challenging jumps in World 2 Tribulation many of which you have to preform consecuatively to progress.

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Posted by: Adamantium.3682

Adamantium.3682

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

Ok see now that is an accurate statement. Saying that the jumps do not require precision just because you know where to jump is not.

There are some very challenging jumps in World 2 Tribulation many of which you have to preform consecuatively to progress.

When I said “you don’t have to be as precise getting there when using the ICC” I meant that if you die it’s okay, you’re not using any precious resource. With the ICC even the hardest jumps aren’t going to eventually kick you out of SAB altogether, you can take as many tries as you need. Without the ICC the hardest jumps have another element tacked onto them: not only are they technically difficult but you must make them, you can’t waste lives missing jumps you know how to do. You must use up your lives only discovering the right path. Once you know that path you better not waste lives going through it.

I have done TM with the ICC, this is not at all about one way being better than the other. I was only responding to the idea that the ICC has no effect on TM’s difficulty. I disagree with that for the reasons above. It would be harder for me to do TM with my ICC stored in the bank, I’m sure of that and I will likely try it once I finish the other things I want to do in SAB.

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Posted by: Atrophied.8725

Atrophied.8725

I have almost a stack of continue coins from last time SAB was around and JPs since this release. I bought an ICC anyway, for the convenience of having 10 lives per use instead of 5, and to support ANet with the SAB release. This makes no difference as to how many lives I have, ‘cause I for sure haven’t used >1250 lives completing tribulation mode over the course of however many times I’ve completed it now. (7 or 8, including running guildies through when I’ve already done it for the daily chests.)

Xandra – 80s in all classes – Ele/Guard mains – [TL] – NSP

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

Ok see now that is an accurate statement. Saying that the jumps do not require precision just because you know where to jump is not.

There are some very challenging jumps in World 2 Tribulation many of which you have to preform consecuatively to progress.

When I said “you don’t have to be as precise getting there when using the ICC” I meant that if you die it’s okay, you’re not using any precious resource. With the ICC even the hardest jumps aren’t going to eventually kick you out of SAB altogether, you can take as many tries as you need. Without the ICC the hardest jumps have another element tacked onto them: not only are they technically difficult but you must make them, you can’t waste lives missing jumps you know how to do. You must use up your lives only discovering the right path. Once you know that path you better not waste lives going through it.

I have done TM with the ICC, this is not at all about one way being better than the other. I was only responding to the idea that the ICC has no effect on TM’s difficulty. I disagree with that for the reasons above. It would be harder for me to do TM with my ICC stored in the bank, I’m sure of that and I will likely try it once I finish the other things I want to do in SAB.

I imagine it would take pressure off a bit sure. To be honest my time to play would have run out before my lives would have. As I mentioned right now I have about 1500 baubles and about 30 continue coins, that is a hell of a lot of lives. Much more then it took me to complete any one zone.

Call me crazy but I am just not afraid to loose like a lot of poeple seem to be. If I got half way through a zone and ran out of coins I would exit and farm more.

This is for another topic but I think the ‘everyone is a winner’ society that we have adopted over the last 10 years has people afraid to loose at anything.

You learn way more when you loose then when you win. Take a risk, try it out.

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Posted by: fungihoujo.8476

fungihoujo.8476

You keep using that word ‘loose’. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Posted by: Traur.7680

Traur.7680

Ouch. Connection dropped for ~5 seconds in W2 Z2 Tribulation a good ways through the zone. I guess it’s a sign I should take a break from it.

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

Ok see now that is an accurate statement. Saying that the jumps do not require precision just because you know where to jump is not.

There are some very challenging jumps in World 2 Tribulation many of which you have to preform consecuatively to progress.

When I said “you don’t have to be as precise getting there when using the ICC” I meant that if you die it’s okay, you’re not using any precious resource. With the ICC even the hardest jumps aren’t going to eventually kick you out of SAB altogether, you can take as many tries as you need. Without the ICC the hardest jumps have another element tacked onto them: not only are they technically difficult but you must make them, you can’t waste lives missing jumps you know how to do. You must use up your lives only discovering the right path. Once you know that path you better not waste lives going through it.

I have done TM with the ICC, this is not at all about one way being better than the other. I was only responding to the idea that the ICC has no effect on TM’s difficulty. I disagree with that for the reasons above. It would be harder for me to do TM with my ICC stored in the bank, I’m sure of that and I will likely try it once I finish the other things I want to do in SAB.

The difficulty doesn’t change at all, only the tediousness of it. There’s nothing difficult about having for farm more coins, and although there are a few areas that require pixel-perfect jumps, the majority of tribulation mode is just trial-and-error gameplay where you will never know where the next spike trap is coming up, or if that rock will knock you back.

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

So you’re saying you’re more hardcore for farming an extremely large amount of continue coins, wasting hours, instead of just converting gold to get it. Okay, sure. I guess farming is ‘hardcore’ now.

Nope. I’m saying that people who have to use guides and continue coins in Tribulation Mode aren’t hardcore, and I am even less hardcore than they are.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

You keep using that word ‘loose’. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I often mispell lose as loose. Not sure why. Doesn’t change my point any though, I think most people knew what I meant.

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Posted by: Adamantium.3682

Adamantium.3682

Please show me your vid of you without a continue coin or guide going through TM without dying once, since content is clearly too easy for you.

^^^ So much this. ^^^

If you think you aren’t supposed to die, you don’t understand the game type.

Using the ICC still makes TM easier because once you learn where to jump by trial-and-error, you don’t have to be as precise getting there. Just because you have to die doesn’t mean you have to die infinitely. Playing TM without the ICC in your inventory is definitely harder.

^^ Hasn’t completed Tribulation mode.

^^ Has a few times. It’s easier when you don’t have the stress of needing to make the jumps on top of everything else in TM.

Ok see now that is an accurate statement. Saying that the jumps do not require precision just because you know where to jump is not.

There are some very challenging jumps in World 2 Tribulation many of which you have to preform consecuatively to progress.

When I said “you don’t have to be as precise getting there when using the ICC” I meant that if you die it’s okay, you’re not using any precious resource. With the ICC even the hardest jumps aren’t going to eventually kick you out of SAB altogether, you can take as many tries as you need. Without the ICC the hardest jumps have another element tacked onto them: not only are they technically difficult but you must make them, you can’t waste lives missing jumps you know how to do. You must use up your lives only discovering the right path. Once you know that path you better not waste lives going through it.

I have done TM with the ICC, this is not at all about one way being better than the other. I was only responding to the idea that the ICC has no effect on TM’s difficulty. I disagree with that for the reasons above. It would be harder for me to do TM with my ICC stored in the bank, I’m sure of that and I will likely try it once I finish the other things I want to do in SAB.

I imagine it would take pressure off a bit sure. To be honest my time to play would have run out before my lives would have. As I mentioned right now I have about 1500 baubles and about 30 continue coins, that is a hell of a lot of lives. Much more then it took me to complete any one zone.

Call me crazy but I am just not afraid to loose like a lot of poeple seem to be. If I got half way through a zone and ran out of coins I would exit and farm more.

This is for another topic but I think the ‘everyone is a winner’ society that we have adopted over the last 10 years has people afraid to loose at anything.

You learn way more when you loose then when you win. Take a risk, try it out.

I completely agree. Too many people balk at the idea of achievements actually requiring you to achieve something.

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Posted by: Aerlen.5326

Aerlen.5326

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

Going to have to agree with that. If you bought the ICC you really have no right to call yourself hardcore. Josh even compared it to using a Game Genie. If you did everything without it… well, hats off to you.

I feel the same way if you used a TM guide.

If you used a guide and the ICC and are complaining TM mode is now “too easy”.. kitten off. You made it easier on purpose, you nerfed your own content.

I would agree on the guilde, but not the ICC.

It just sounds like sour grapes to me, saying that because you completed it with the ICC you cheated, or it is not a real accomplishment. And as I said before, chances are most of the people saying that have not completed it at all otherwise you would know differently.

Trying to take the glory away from someone else because you can’t or are unwilling to earn if for yourself is petty.

I have about 6 stacks of [250 baubles] in my bank. I have over 30 continue coins with out doing a single jumping puzzle. It didn’t take me that many lives to beat Tribulation mode.

I even considered buying a continue coin after I had completed it in order to farm it with out having to stop to farm coins.

That is all it does, is saves you time to buy coins, it does not help you beat the content.

I am proud to have beaten Tribulation mode, and expecially proud now to have done it before the patch, and I think no less of the people who did the same with an ICC.

People might have said it is too easy now. I don’t think that is true, but it IS easier now and that is not what those of us who IMO Tribulation mode was made for want.

Did the Tribulation/World 2 nerf ruin the content? No. But the reason why some of us are reacting strongly toward it is because it sets a scary precident.

There is no shortage of easy/casual/light/fun whatever you want to call it, cotent in guild wars 2. But why the people that can’t complete the one piece of challenging content out there begrudge those of us who want it that challenging is beyond me.

Not begrudging you and no sour grapes. I admire people who complete TM and aren’t kittens about it.

Just tired of the kittening because BUG FIXES applies to Normal Mode affected TM and now there’s screaming of TM IS TOO EASY and a lot of hatred and disgusting name calling towards anyone who isn’t a hardcore elitist. Seriously, we are being blamed for changes to TM none of us wanted or advocated for.

So… the ICC and guides make TM easier too and if fixing bugs in Normal Mode which needed to be fixed ruined TM, shouldn’t ICC and a guide be seen as ruining it too? Both are Game Genie type items – giving players an easier time with something meant to be hardmode. Where’s the kittening about that?

Oh wait, there is none.

You want hardmode? Sure. ICC should no longer work in TM and using a guide is a cop out. There ya go, elitist hardmode.

Did the Tribulation/World 2 nerf ruin the content? No. But the reason why some of us are reacting strongly toward it is because it sets a scary precident. There is no shortage of easy/casual/light/fun whatever you want to call it, cotent in guild wars 2. But why the people that can’t complete the *one piece of challenging content out there begrudge those of us who want it that challenging is beyond me.*

NO ONE ASKED FOR TM TO BE NERFED. Do I have to scream this before people get it? WE DIDN’T WANT TM NERFED but we get blamed for it, told it was our fault, treated like “skill-less casuals” for “taking” TM away. Seriously, what the kitten? No one wanted that! We didn’t know needed fixes to NM were going to affect you guys too. We want you to have your challenge. I’m upset TM got changed but I’m more upset to be constantly blamed and the whining from the hardcores.

Kitten. Just Kitten.

~Tarnished Coast Pride~

Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.

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Posted by: Fungalfoot.7213

Fungalfoot.7213

So you’re saying you’re more hardcore for farming an extremely large amount of continue coins, wasting hours, instead of just converting gold to get it. Okay, sure. I guess farming is ‘hardcore’ now.

Not at all. I, like just about everyone else who has done Tribulation, bought the ICC and trial and errored my way to victory. I just think the hardcore act is getting a wee bit silly on here. While some jumps are rather difficult there is no real skill involved in repeatedly dying to find the real path. That’s just a matter of persistence. All in all I found that the Clock Tower required more skill than this. I also found it more enjoyable but that’s a matter of taste.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Not begrudging you and no sour grapes. I admire people who complete TM and aren’t kittens about it.

Just tired of the kittening because BUG FIXES applies to Normal Mode affected TM and now there’s screaming of TM IS TOO EASY and a lot of hatred and disgusting name calling towards anyone who isn’t a hardcore elitist. Seriously, we are being blamed for changes to TM none of us wanted or advocated for.

So… the ICC and guides make TM easier too and if fixing bugs in Normal Mode which needed to be fixed ruined TM, shouldn’t ICC and a guide be seen as ruining it too? Both are Game Genie type items – giving players an easier time with something meant to be hardmode. Where’s the kittening about that?

Oh wait, there is none.

You want hardmode? Sure. ICC should no longer work in TM and using a guide is a cop out. There ya go, elitist hardmode.

Did the Tribulation/World 2 nerf ruin the content? No. But the reason why some of us are reacting strongly toward it is because it sets a scary precident. There is no shortage of easy/casual/light/fun whatever you want to call it, cotent in guild wars 2. But why the people that can’t complete the *one piece of challenging content out there begrudge those of us who want it that challenging is beyond me.*

NO ONE ASKED FOR TM TO BE NERFED. Do I have to scream this before people get it? WE DIDN’T WANT TM NERFED but we get blamed for it, told it was our fault, treated like “skill-less casuals” for “taking” TM away. Seriously, what the kitten? No one wanted that! We didn’t know needed fixes to NM were going to affect you guys too. We want you to have your challenge. I’m upset TM got changed but I’m more upset to be constantly blamed and the whining from the hardcores.

Kitten. Just Kitten.

Well I apologize I have not seen a whole lot of talk like that, but that is usually because I try to ignore any ‘over the top’ posts from both sides.

If I communicated any of the above ‘elitist’ attitude then I aplogise that was not my intention. As you quoted me above saying I don’t think the changes runied anything. Yes, I was fine with the way things were, but Tribulation mode is still great, and so is World 2 normal for that matter.

Like I said, those of us who want challenging content get scared when Dev’s react to cries for nerfs. And I don’t mean ‘cries’ in the derogitory sense I am just unsure how to word it differently.

There are just some of us who really enjoy a splash of challenging cotent now and then, and it is discouraging to finally get that and then have it dialed down with in the first week it is released. Challenging content in video games is dying, that makes me sad but I will do what I can to preserve what is left or encourage it’s growth.

That is no excuse however for elitism or name calling. However I don’t I think it is being elitest to ask those players who do not enjoy the challenging content to just leave it alone. It is not exagerating to say that less then 1% of the content in Guild Wars 2 is in any way challenging. That doesn’t make it unfun, I am a huge fanboy of practically the whole game. We are just saying that the players who find this type of content to frustrating have the rest of the game to continue to enjoy. It is frustrating to see those players flood the forms in rants over one update.

There is new content every 2 weeks, with 4 teams working on it. I would say that it would even be fair for one full team to be dedicated to content with a difficulty level inline with Tribulation mode. That would mean a challenging content release every 2 months. But that isn’t even going to happen.

All we have so far is Tribulation Mode out of the entire game that is a challenge. So we are going to be protective of it. There is no excuse for rude behavior, but that is where we are coming from.

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

So you’re saying you’re more hardcore for farming an extremely large amount of continue coins, wasting hours, instead of just converting gold to get it. Okay, sure. I guess farming is ‘hardcore’ now.

Nope. I’m saying that people who have to use guides and continue coins in Tribulation Mode aren’t hardcore, and I am even less hardcore than they are.

So you’re saying now that people can’t use coins at all, otherwise they aren’t hardcore.

Guides I agree with, but honestly, you’re sounding like an elitist, and you haven’t even done it. Try getting through all of world 1 in tribulation mode, twice, without an infinite continue coin, then try talking about how you aren’t ‘hardcore’ for using it.

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

So you’re saying you’re more hardcore for farming an extremely large amount of continue coins, wasting hours, instead of just converting gold to get it. Okay, sure. I guess farming is ‘hardcore’ now.

Not at all. I, like just about everyone else who has done Tribulation, bought the ICC and trial and errored my way to victory. I just think the hardcore act is getting a wee bit silly on here. While some jumps are rather difficult there is no real skill involved in repeatedly dying to find the real path. That’s just a matter of persistence. All in all I found that the Clock Tower required more skill than this. I also found it more enjoyable but that’s a matter of taste.

That’s understandable, I can agree to that. But people saying that you should do tribulation mode without the infinite coin obviously haven’t done it. it’s making something that’s already tedious and annoying about a hundred times even more tedious just by having to farm more coins. it’s not fun having to farm them, nobody wants to do it, and the experience and difficulty doesn’t change at all if you’re using the coin.

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Posted by: showtime.9175

showtime.9175

I’m permanently carrying 750 baubles and have now started to deposit them in my bank whenever I get out of SAB. I bought the ICC initially, but I realize it wasn’t at all necessary. 750 baubles represents 150 lives. You can max out on coins in a single tribulation mode level. Do you really die more than 150 times per level? If the answer is yes, I would recommend trying infantile or normal mode.

I don’t believe that you couldn’t get past the rapids, since those were nerfed extremely hard by the recent update. They’re a joke now.

Tribulation Mode is meant to be challenging. It doesn’t reward anything gamebreaking. You don’t even get a new skin, only a new color. Why do so many people complain on the forums until the challenging content gets removed from those it was made for. I liked it much better pre-nerf.

(edited by showtime.9175)

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Posted by: Shpongle.6025

Shpongle.6025

Liadri was way too hard, and stupid and not fun at all.

But this is fun and not too hard at all. All you need is repetitivness.

Fun times.

Are you Shpongled?

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

Guides I agree with, but honestly, you’re sounding like an elitist, and you haven’t even done it.

I’m not elitist. My enjoyment of content and/or the rewards for doing it are not dependent on knowing that I was able to do something that someone else couldn’t, or that I have something others can’t get.

You know what makes me happy? Content made for everyone. I actually like it when everyone is able to do everything. I think it bonds the community together. It doesn’t accentuate the divides between the community.

But whatever. That’s just me. I know other people feel differently. Heck, if anything, I’m definitely more of a “care-bear”. Which, by the way, is a title that I’m happy to own up to.

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Posted by: Lane.3410

Lane.3410

Please, for the love of God, separate bauble achievements from boss kills. We begged for this last time and now it’s even worse with the length of these zones.

I just spent 2 hours trying to get all of them in Z1 only to not get the achievement and Z1 is the easiest of the three! At least give players an opportunity to find what they missed instead of forcing them to go through the whole thing all over again, this sort of thing really saps all the fun out of SAB.

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Posted by: cubed.2853

cubed.2853

w2-1 much better now. however, if you die in the moment you kill the end boss and if you then need to insert a coin you are not able to get the chest in time… that sucks..

it was written…

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Posted by: Lothirieth.3408

Lothirieth.3408

Did the Tribulation/World 2 nerf ruin the content? No. But the reason why some of us are reacting strongly toward it is because it sets a scary precident.

There is no shortage of easy/casual/light/fun whatever you want to call it, cotent in guild wars 2. But why the people that can’t complete the one piece of challenging content out there begrudge those of us who want it that challenging is beyond me.

Yeah, because they totally listened to all the Gauntlet/Liadri QQ and nerfed that.

Oh wait…

This situation really is different. Bugs and latency /= difficulty.

And again, people had issues with NORMAL mode, not Tribulation. NORMAL mode should still be for the majority of people, not for a small percentage of hardcores. I say that as someone who does appreciate a challenge, have been in harcore raidgroups, etc. I really enjoyed the Gauntlet and in the end, Liadri as well. Felt great to beat her. I had my favoured MMO before GW2 become completely dumbed down, to the point I couldn’t stand to play it anymore as it was so boring, so I get where you’re coming from. But normal modes, whether they be SAB or dungeons, raids, they need to present the average person a challenge, not just the hardcore. That’s why Josh made Tribulation mode. If a few bits of Tribulation mode had to be changed because of issues with the engine, that’s unfortunate, but I don’t agree with those issues being left in just because a few like enjoy latency and bugs to increase their difficulty.

(edited by Lothirieth.3408)

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

Guides I agree with, but honestly, you’re sounding like an elitist, and you haven’t even done it.

I’m not elitist. My enjoyment of content and/or the rewards for doing it are not dependent on knowing that I was able to do something that someone else couldn’t, or that I have something others can’t get.

You know what makes me happy? Content made for everyone. I actually like it when everyone is able to do everything. I think it bonds the community together. It doesn’t accentuate the divides between the community.

But whatever. That’s just me. I know other people feel differently. Heck, if anything, I’m definitely more of a “care-bear”. Which, by the way, is a title that I’m happy to own up to.

It sounds more like you’re envious of those who can complete it, but you’re denouncing anyone that uses the continue coin even though we worked just as hard as everyone else to get past tribulation mode. The super adventure box is made for everyone, that’s why there’s different skill levels. If you can’t do hard mode, that’s fine, but don’t denounce others for something that you can’t even do yourself.

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

It sounds more like you’re envious of those who can complete it, but you’re denouncing anyone that uses the continue coin even though we worked just as hard as everyone else to get past tribulation mode. The super adventure box is made for everyone, that’s why there’s different skill levels. If you can’t do hard mode, that’s fine, but don’t denounce others for something that you can’t even do yourself.

Good lord, calm down. I haven’t “denounced” anyone. I’ve been speaking in general terms the whole time, but every post you make in response to me has to contain an observation, theory, or criticism about me personally.

Whatever.

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Posted by: raahk.2786

raahk.2786

It sounds more like you’re envious of those who can complete it, but you’re denouncing anyone that uses the continue coin even though we worked just as hard as everyone else to get past tribulation mode. The super adventure box is made for everyone, that’s why there’s different skill levels. If you can’t do hard mode, that’s fine, but don’t denounce others for something that you can’t even do yourself.

Good lord, calm down. I haven’t “denounced” anyone. I’ve been speaking in general terms the whole time, but every post you make in response to me has to contain an observation, theory, or criticism about me personally.

Whatever.

Did you even read your own post? You denounced anyone using the infinite continue coin as “not hardcore”, simply because they’re using something that’s more convenient than wasting time farming them.

But feel free to insult others and then pretend that you haven’t said anything wrong, that’s fine too.

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Posted by: minbariguy.7504

minbariguy.7504

Did you even read your own post? You denounced anyone using the infinite continue coin as “not hardcore”, simply because they’re using something that’s more convenient than wasting time farming them.

Did you read my post? Because I also said that I wasn’t hardcore. In fact, I said I was less hardcore than others. I guess that means I denounced myself as well?

Egads, I am a bad egg, aren’t I?

But feel free to insult others and then pretend that you haven’t said anything wrong, that’s fine too.

If you’re choosing to believe I insulted you, then I’m sure that nothing I say will ease your pain. But attacking me on a personal level is unproductive, so I will not be responding to you any further. Good luck.

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Posted by: bwuki.2175

bwuki.2175

please show me a dev that can do this on trib mode….

Attachments:

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Voted “most likely to die/fail” by peers

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Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Hey Josh,

My girlfriend and I spent the night going though the SAB and at one point I said, “You know, this is actually quite pleasant.”

The changes you’ve made have really toned down how erratic it was. For the first time since version 1.0, my girlfriend and I were able to traverse the rapids without coming away feeling frustrated and cranky.

We went through “infantile mode” a few times for achievements, but more and more we found ourselves skipping the rainbow clouds and attempting the content. I think that speaks a lot to how these changes and the SAB in general are coming together.

I know a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork and accusing you of “dumbing it down”, but I think Word 2 feels much more in line with what it should. It is really starting to feel like a perfect and reasonable continuation of Word 1.

I just wanted to say great work, and thanks so much for taking the time to understand, explain, and act. It really makes a huge difference as a player to have a dev who takes the time to be genuine and honest. I know the SAB still has some rough spots, but as a result of your transparent responses, and your dedication, I will support this project in any way I can.

Well done, sir!

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Posted by: SgtSarcasm.1653

SgtSarcasm.1653

I’m usually one to enjoy “challenging” content, but SAB isn’t designed to be challenging. It’s designed to be a brick wall to slam your head against after being forced to buy infinite coin if you want to get past world 1 zone 1.

Whoever designed this is a complete kitten . Seriously. Instant-death traps that you can only avoid if you already know EXACTLY where they are, because the moment you actually see them it’s already too late. Instant death.
And don’t get me started on the many MANY jumps where if you’re off by even 1 millimeter you die instantly (such as the jumping boulder at the first lava field in W1 Z2, checkpoint 1).

I don’t want to have to choose between fun and the possibility of eventually obtaining some cool special event weapon skins.
As it stands now, obtaining the SAB skins is not fun. It’s not a game. It’s a chore. An incredibly mind-numbing chore.

I hope someone at ANET reads this and forwards it to whoever is in charge of designing these things, and hopefully future content won’t be so anti-fun.

PS: I’m talking about Trib mode here. Normal mode was actually quite fun. Trib is just complete BS.

Khaine [80 Guardian] – Night of Wallachia [80 Warrior]
Minister of Fear [80 Necromancer] @Far Shiverpeaks EU

(edited by SgtSarcasm.1653)

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Posted by: Player Character.9467

Player Character.9467

You’re misunderstanding those of us who are against the nerfs don’t think the content is easy. With think it is finally challenging and we seek to keep it that way.

These two posts are from just the last two pages of this thread alone (emphasis mine):

You said SAB would be hard. You said it wasn’t for everyone.

Now you nerf it and dumb it all down for those ‘weakest links’. Everyone who did it the hard way, I hope you enjoy the big [Moto’s finger] you just got.

ArenaNet: No newbs left behind!

Way to give in Anet. Im no Hardcore player or Elitist but this really makes me loose faith in your guys. You used to stand behind alot of the content you made. Thats why we waited so many years for this game. It was good. Now its way to easy. Glad I did W2 Z1-2 yesterday.

Sorry Moto…….

So it certainly appears as if some players are saying it’s too easy. That’s what I was responding to. For the record, I do get that you aren’t saying it’s too easy, and I totally respect that. And I do support keeping Tribulation Mode as hard as possible for those of you that like it. I have no problem with that.

The infinite lives coin doesn’t make your jumps easier, or your attacks more accurate, no. But surely the people who are claiming that this content is too easy (not you) would have no problem beating SAB without relying on a cash shop item to make their experience more convenient.

People who claim to like uber-difficult content shouldn’t want “convenient”.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove with your quotes
First guy – It was finally something difficult to do, we didn’t want it nerfed
Second guy – You promised us difficult content, now you’re nerfing it down
Third guy – Way to give in to complaints and make the content too easy through nerfs

They’re all saying they liked it more before and it’s too easy with the patched in nerfs. There’s a difference between patching fixes and patching nerfs.

(edited by Player Character.9467)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

They’re all saying they liked it more before and it’s too easy with the patched in nerfs.

I liked the things that they nerfed too, however, by the looks of it latency was more of a factor than anticipated and geysers/spinflowers had bugs, so they hotfixed them and hopefully will be able to fix them properly later (Josh, convince them to give you a programmer in your team for the next round).

You can get used to lag caused by things like low FPS, because it is more consistent but network latency can be all over the place compound that with slower processing on low end PC’s suddenly a 3 second window on server side can be reduced closer to 1 on client side.

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Posted by: Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

I’m usually one to enjoy “challenging” content, but SAB isn’t designed to be challenging. It’s designed to be a brick wall to slam your head against after being forced to buy infinite coin if you want to get past world 1 zone 1.

Whoever designed this is a complete kitten . Seriously. Instant-death traps that you can only avoid if you already know EXACTLY where they are, because the moment you actually see them it’s already too late. Instant death.

Well that is the point of Tribulation Mode. It’s not meant to be hard mode. It’s meant to be unfairly-hard mode. So why complain that it is unfair? That is exactly the mode you chose to play. And by the way, world 1 zone 1 is a breeze in TM. Try World 2 zone 2.

And don’t get me started on the many MANY jumps where if you’re off by even 1 millimeter you die instantly (such as the jumping boulder at the first lava field in W1 Z2, checkpoint 1).

I’m less happy about these sort of jumps as well. I agree.

I don’t want to have to choose between fun and the possibility of eventually obtaining some cool special event weapon skins.
As it stands now, obtaining the SAB skins is not fun. It’s not a game. It’s a chore. An incredibly mind-numbing chore.

Correction, collecting the SAB skins IS fun, and IS easy. But getting the Tribulation Mode skins, THAT is hard and frustrating. Especially the way it should be. If you’re not willing to put yourself through the agony and hell that is TM, you do not deserve the TM-exclusive weapon skins (which is basically just the normal weapon skins with a fancy glow).

“Madness is just another way to view reality”
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y)

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Posted by: Harmona.8254

Harmona.8254

I enjoyed a lot SAB when it was released the first time, and after a few runs I can say I also enjoy World 2, despite the increase in difficulty.

I beated tribulation mode before any guide was posted on the internet, but I felt like buying the Infinite Continue Coin was mandatory. The mode was already time-consuming enough to bother with limited lives.

Now, with this last patch “lowering” the overall difficulty of World 2 Zone 1 and Zone 2… well, in fact, I am quite disappointed. The rafts in Zone 1 had a decent difficulty. That part WAS difficult, you had to have a good timing… now it is plain easy. Like a walk in the park. I disapprove it.

But there is more… apparently that patch screwed things up for Tribulation Mode, to the point that one checkpoint in World 2 Zone 2 becomes a deathtrap half of the time (you spawn dead):
http://imgur.com/Mz6iYbl

Or cloud checkpoints not working (dying past this cloud checkpoint leads to spawning in the previous checkpoint, the one in the image above):
http://imgur.com/ZUnhebr

Also, this tribulation cloud prevents you from leaving the shop, inflicting knockback and shoving you inside the shop again… which makes imposible to leave the shop once you’ve entered it:
http://imgur.com/c0KoxF0

Finally, I can tell there is a misplaced “blocking cloud” near the end of the World 2 Zone 3, making nearly imposible a jump that was trivial before this patch. Now you have to dodge-jump to be able to get past that point. I do not think devs where thinking about dodge-jumping when creating SAB.

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Posted by: Pixelpumpkin.4608

Pixelpumpkin.4608

Hey Josh,

My girlfriend and I spent the night going though the SAB and at one point I said, “You know, this is actually quite pleasant.”

Yes, this is what he said and was exactly how I felt as well. Going up rivers across crocodiles, turtles, logs etc. turned from stressful and frustrating into something that feels like one of the most enjoyable parts in the entire SAB. I love the frogger part. It is such a joy.

:)

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Posted by: Miragee.3604

Miragee.3604

I have to say, that the changes that were made in the last patch saddened me. Not for TM but for the normal mode. Namely:

- Geysers were removed from Piranha Bend in World 2-1 and been replaced with more piranha for overall difficulty reduction.
- Difficult jumps in World 2-2 have been simplified.
- Getting frozen by a Banana or sucked into an Orange Frog will no longer tick health away. It takes one less struggle to break free.
- Damaged inflicted by Rapid Water has been removed and the knockback distance has been greatly reduced.
- Geysers will always remain up and will never go back down.

Are people really to kitten down already to want a challenge that will cost them more than one try because you have to figure out the mechanics? The normal mode was totally fine. Harder than the rest of the game but that was finally something refreshing. No it gets dumbed down already. I’m so sick of this “everyone is amazing, everyone is nice and everywhere are flowers”-mentality. Everyone now thinks that content is supposed to be done in the first try without even trying. Where is the sense of accomplishment then? Gosh.

And for the one asking me why I don’t do tribulation mode: I’m not a fan of the trail & error type of difficulty. Especially with the Infinity Coin cheering over from the p2…oh wait, totally optional gem store. I like difficulty in mechanics (riddles or dexterity etc.), the need of patience and the need of paying attention.

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Posted by: Monkey Fritz.9052

Monkey Fritz.9052

Oh for crying out loud people, a handful of things were changed out of an immense amount of content because they were buggy and some people couldn’t even progress thanks to bugs.

For every one jump that is now a little easier because it doesn’t randomly kill you for no reason there are still hundreds more just the way they were.

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

- Geysers were removed from Piranha Bend in World 2-1 and been replaced with more piranha for overall difficulty reduction.

Are people really to kitten down already to want a challenge that will cost them more than one try because you have to figure out the mechanics?

Make that 200 tries or more, I didn’t care to count after that (and that was just from death toll, not counting the times when I managed to salvage the situation without dying), at that point it is no longer about figuring out mechanics but being screwed over by factors not under your control.

Yes, I probably could have passed it eventually, but it would have not been because I got better (sure, yes I got better at factoring in jumping quirks and latency, but that is hardly the point of SAB) at it but getting a stroke of dumb luck.

The geyser + rapids combo was brutal not because of its mechanics but because of how the system surrounding it worked, or more accurately didn’t work.

I don’t think there was a section more infuriating than the geysers in the entirety of W2, although the yeti fight gets close, mostly because it was easier and faster to just to suicide bomb him over fighting him legit.

Also I can’t help but to notice how you did not include the spinflower change in your list, I am guessing that’s something that frustrated you enough not to? Yes, some fixes were heavy handed, but at the end of the day it was a hotfix that went out fast, so they were limited in what they could do. The problem with temporary content, you have to wait for the next round of SAB to get the polished proper fixes for these mechanics and levels.

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Posted by: Miragee.3604

Miragee.3604

- Geysers were removed from Piranha Bend in World 2-1 and been replaced with more piranha for overall difficulty reduction.

Are people really to kitten down already to want a challenge that will cost them more than one try because you have to figure out the mechanics?

Make that 200 tries or more, I didn’t care to count after that (and that was just from death toll, not counting the times when I managed to salvage the situation without dying), at that point it is no longer about figuring out mechanics but being screwed over by factors not under your control.

Yes, I probably could have passed it eventually, but it would have not been because I got better (sure, yes I got better at factoring in jumping quirks and latency, but that is hardly the point of SAB) at it but getting a stroke of dumb luck.

The geyser + rapids combo was brutal not because of its mechanics but because of how the system surrounding it worked, or more accurately didn’t work.

I don’t think there was a section more infuriating than the geysers in the entirety of W2, although the yeti fight gets close, mostly because it was easier and faster to just to suicide bomb him over fighting him legit.

Also I can’t help but to notice how you did not include the spinflower change in your list, I am guessing that’s something that frustrated you enough not to? Yes, some fixes were heavy handed, but at the end of the day it was a hotfix that went out fast, so they were limited in what they could do. The problem with temporary content, you have to wait for the next round of SAB to get the polished proper fixes for these mechanics and levels.

200 tries? The only thing that was bad was the hit boyes of some things like waterfalls. Hit boxes mauch bigger than the actual object. Something you can’t see in before. The fontains actually had 2 different rhythms. After a few trails you would have had the mechanic. Let them be up all the time takes away the purpose. It was a bit frustrating when you hit some hit boxes that were too large and got thrown away, I agree. But that was not necessarily game breaking.

I didn’t mentioned the flowers because I don’t even noticed them. So I don’t care about them as they seem to have/had no impact anyways.

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Posted by: Luthan.5236

Luthan.5236

After playing a bit I don’t think it is “too hard”. Yes probably without guide it is “too hard” for a lot of players. I only play with guide. Still some hard jumps and not that easy. But okay(the tribulation mode).

It’s more about “too long”. And that is only a problem with collecting baubles and stuff like that(and killing assassins). 1 small disconnect or forgetting 1 bauble and you can do all the stuff again.

But I remember it being harder in world 1 back then when all the guides let you kill all mobs and destroy stuff in shops cause nobody was sure about which baubles counted.

The stuff with secret rooms is okay. Collecting baubles stuff is a bit annoying. Maybe a “visit all secret rooms and open all chests in 1 playthrough” would be okay for future zones.

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Posted by: Dwaynas Avatar.1562

Dwaynas Avatar.1562

TY FOR THE UPDATE – YOU MADE IT TOO EASY GG

TY FOR DESTROYING DIFFICULT CONTENT -.- ><

I want my old gong temple back….

all is vain – #BelieveInKarl – #EvanForPresident

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Posted by: Aerlen.5326

Aerlen.5326

Dev talks to players.

Dev realizes bugs are in his content.

Dev realizes content doesn’t play as he wanted it to.

Players make reasonable requests to fix bugs.

Dev considers only reasonable requests and fixes those bugs in the way the game engine allows.

Dev also smooths difficulty to match his original vision of playability.

Dev is happy.

Players are happy.

Hardcores cry that casuals ruined their perfect content without caring that the bugs were bad enough that some players couldn’t progress at all due to fighting the game engine itself.

Dev can’t win.

Seriously, shut the kitten up. I hope no one fixes the bugs in TM at the moment because of this BS QQ fit you guys keep throwing. You like buggy unfair content? Super. Leave all the bugs in TM and refuse to touch them, Devs, apparently the hardcores don’t like their game to run smothly.

Facepalm Combo x 1000

~Tarnished Coast Pride~

Forever known as “that slow guardian who can’t jump worth crap”.

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Posted by: Icealen.3802

Icealen.3802

Okay, here are my observations after a week of playing the new SAB.

In my opinion, it’s harder and not as much fun as last April. World 2 is crazy. I’m not sure what those little ninja guys have against me. I hate them just as much as they hate me. The ice skating ground – didn’t like it. And I was just in infant mode. I’m going back to buy some huge torch I need to burn an ice river down now – my candle isn’t powerful enough I just found out. I hope I’m almost done with the frozen level – it already seems too long.

I’m just going to try and complete World 2 infant version and call it done. Anything else to me in World 2 is just too long and putting myself through torture for no reason.

For the rest of the month, I’ll go back to playing World 1. It’s playability is still very much enjoyable to me and I’ll finish out the month farming there. I do HIGHLY resent them nerfing the bauble dig sites to once a day (my brain’s reward center was basically stomped on and snuffed out when they did that) but there are still the hidden rooms and chests that I can farm for the remainder of the time SAB is open.

Why, oh why was dig site farming nerfed anyway? The SAB is supposed to be an 8-bit retro style addition. Last time I checked, when I went back to play Pac Man, Dig Dug, Legend of Zelda, actually any old retro game, none of them were nerfed or altered in any way. All of the chests, rewards, etc., were still located in the same locations. Nerfing of retro games just doesn’t happen. If the SAB is supposed to emulate old classic games, then it’s NOT a living world – preexisting content and rewards should not have been changed/altered in my opinion.

Overall, World 2 was a disappointment for me (too long, too hard, bauble rewards minimal, etc.).

I did try tribulation mode for World 1 just one time to see what it was like, and won’t be trying that again either. It’s too crazy for me, but I’m fine with that.

I’ll be farming normal mode World 1’s hidden caves and chests the rest of this update, hopefully collect enough bauble bubles to get a few of the new skins, and call it a day.

There’s my one-week review. I’d like to give this update and the new World 2 as much praise as I did for the original World 1 back in April, but I can’t.

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

The only thing that was bad was the hit boyes of some things like waterfalls. Hit boxes mauch bigger than the actual object. Something you can’t see in before. The fontains actually had 2 different rhythms. After a few trails you would have had the mechanic.

Well yes, I had the rhythm down, however, if you jumped off of geyser (or stood on it) exactly when it disappeared it applied a knockback to you (to prevent your character from standing in thin air) thus throwing you into the rapids without fail. Now this is fine, in a scenario where there is little to no latency or rendering lag on client side.

But when you add in those factors sometimes unless you jumped before the geysers actually appeared on your screen your window to jump onto the next one was extremely slim. How this could manifest on client side would be knockback being applied to your character when mid-air or while still standing on a geyser that was perfectly fine, depending on where the latency was originating.

Also, particularly for the first set of three geysers, after the checkpoint, they were the easy part except when jumping from the second to third my character would collide with the underside of the third geyser at random (also knocking me off obviously).

The point being, I shouldn’t have to attempt to factor in things like network latency or server/render lag… or think about how my characters hitbox is bigger/smaller than the model on screen. Why? Because the designer should be the one that worries about those things not the player. In other words there was unintended difficulty in it that some people were experiencing due to external factors.

If the SAB is supposed to emulate old classic games, then it’s NOT a living world – preexisting content and rewards should not have been changed/altered in my opinion.

SAB doesn’t emulate or recreate those games, it is an omage to them, mainly this means it is not an old game, it is a new game that uses some dated design, gameplay and a particular aesthetic to invoke feeling of nostalgia… like Josh said in this topic it is about which old school desing decisions to keep for flavor and which to throw away. Also SAB is a game within a game its rewards influence GW2 as a whole both aesthetically and economically.

Essentially what you imply is that they are not allowed to fix bugs or change content to adapt to the shortcomings of an engine that was not designed for platformers.

(edited by Crise.9401)