Guild Wars 2

Some kittenbag from Maguuma thought it would be hilarious to guest over to SoS and shout in LA for Mesmer portals in EB; while two of their guilds that have been getting rolled in wvw decided to mass camp entry, teleport up as people were zoning in and grab target so they could be yanked down, 1 vs 20+.

Guess if you can’t actually help your own server you might as well troll for loot.

The problem is not doing pvp in a pvp zone but ANet adding PvE content in a PvP zone. In no way can anyone make sense of that decision. At the same time I don’t see anyone running in a group can justify killing a single player showing no signs of aggression. Say what you like but those kind of people are nothing but a bunch of kittens.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Tentonhammr.7849:

We’re in the middle of a very tough match-up this week with Tarnished Coast and Fort Aspenwood. TC has been facerolling us for the past 7 days, and if we hadn’t camped the puzzle, a lot of people wouldn’t have been able to do it.

I find this amusing as the biggest group I saw trolling and griefing the puzzle was from Kaineng. They didn’t stop until FA rolled though and killed them all. If you want to know why Kaineng was being killed a lot in Sanctum, that is why.

Thankfully the folks from Fort Aspenwood were kind enough to not kill everyone passing by and helped me to get it, despite being a TCer. My thanks to them.

This, every time I tried the puzzle, Kaineng would fear me off cliffs, chill me as I went for long jumps, and camp in places where they could rain death on me with very little I could do back (particularly a couple of 1500 range engies).
It was completely obnoxious. Hopefully I can get it soon without being griefed, but my hopes aren’t super high, lol.

Adam.4103:

The problem is not doing pvp in a pvp zone but ANet adding PvE content in a PvP zone. In no way can anyone make sense of that decision.

If the reason behind this is to lure PvE players into WvW, or to encourage them to check out the WvW maps, then that’s fine – a valid reason in my opinion. However, it should have been the servers’ home maps’ jumping puzzle, where whether you get the achievement or not is not entirely based on whether or not your server happens to hold the Obsidian Sanctum this week. The individual PvE player can’t do anything to get this achievements if the circumstances are against them.

(The individual PvE player probably isn’t part of a big WvW-focused guild either, so “just bring your friends and zerg it” is not an option for many players.)

So, I get the idea behind this, but the decision to use Obsidian Sanctum over the home turf jumping puzzle was a bad one. (Unless there are other reasons, but I can’t think of any other ones.)

I just went in now for my first attempt to get the achievement. I was running and jumping alongside the other servers players for quite a ways. I thought, “nice, we’re putting aside the ‘war’ to accomplish this.” About halfway through however I ran into some that weren’t playing nice and taking advantage of the situation. I should have known for certain that not everyone would. I suspected that would be so but I got my hopes up. I won’t attempt to get that cache again.

Thankfully an awesome Mesmer from my guild brought me through with a portal. Say what you will about it being cheap, but when we were nicely going through the puzzle a group of 20+ came through and killed me since I was too slow. It was a seriously d**k move to bulldoze individual players :/ Thankfully my Mesmer friend got away from them and then came back to rez me and then portal us up. I think Anet screwed the pooch on this since it really made me never want to touch WvW and I’m sure others feel the same way.

Sieg.8439:

This, every time I tried the puzzle, Kaineng would fear me off cliffs, chill me as I went for long jumps, and camp in places where they could rain death on me with very little I could do back (particularly a couple of 1500 range engies).
It was completely obnoxious. Hopefully I can get it soon without being griefed, but my hopes aren’t super high, lol.

Kaineng is only camping the beginning of the puzzle today. By the time you get to the dark room, they are pretty much only there to complete the puzzle and don’t care about you. Try to go through with a group and stealth as much as possible! I didn’t see any Yaks or EB fighting (unless it was with Kaineng). Good luck to you!

Why are people complaining again?
There are multiple stealth wells in the JP, for just this exact reason.
If you don’t want to fight, fine. Drink from the well and be invisible for 5 minutes.
Only downside is that you can’t use skills but since people don’t intend to fight that shouldn’t be a problem at all, right?

The hard part is GETTING to said wells, Crovax.

Well that makes sense. As a “fix” for people completely unable to do it due to being outnumbered: Isn’t it possible to create a new character on the server that dominates you and run the Jp with it?

I got lucky. Tarnished Coast has been consistently dominating our competition in WvW in the last few weeks, so when I went to Obsidian Sanctum to get the cache, it was almost entirely TC in there. We did see some invaders in the dark room, but it seems they were just trying to get the cache too. We never exchanged words, but there was an unspoken truce between all of us and nobody attacked anyone else.

Crovax, no, it’s not possible. You can only WvW on your home server and all your characters are on your home server. Transfers are of entire accounts, and cost money.

Well, all I can say is, if Anet wanted to get people into WvW, in hopes that they’ll stay, that failed miserably.

Personally I had no idea that these wells exsisted… awkward. But. I was annoyed because even if I knew about the wells I still would have had the hardest time because im not very good and it would have taken me longer than 5 mins.

I think that if they want to get people to participate in WvW then they should make it so that the dominating server will have access for a certain amount of time… i mean that probably wouldnt work for many reasons but something along those lines… getting the player to play some WvW before having access and then once in it not having to deal with the other players who arent so kind or who are bitter because they fell. Im sure they could figure out some way to get it to work.
Im sure this jumping puzzle is fine when there isnt so much focus on it from players but there is currently just too many players in it to get anything accomplished. It just left a bad taste in my mouth which is not something that i usually dont expect from Anet.

If they made it that you could access the JP directly from Lion’s Arch…
would prevent servers like Vabbi from completely being locked out(they probably never control their keep) and would prevent you from having to queue to EB.

Then maybe even servers with less people would see more of their allies in EB and it would be easier for big guild groups to just say “we go there and roflstomp – to counter the others that are camping our guys all the time there”.

But with the queue it will be hard… especially if there still are a lot of players doing WvW and staying on the big WvW maps instead of moving to JP.

As someone else stated you can’t get to the invi wells mainly because of this kind of grieffers(see the “skilled” [DERP]bags praying on helpless people) that are frustrated because of their poor WvW performance so they have to resort to camping jp’s. People that go there don’t give a kitten about fighting and are generally ill prepared anyway so obviously easy targets in a 4 vs 2.
Please Anet keep pvp and pve separate!

Just wanted to say that [DTG] from Blackgate has been griefing in the JP, killing players who have no intention to fight repeatedly.

This is happening at the arena after the dark room.

Michael Fejervary.8576:

I do have to say that at least some due to the nature of the event are going above it being a pvp zone, for whatever reason, and was floored that Dragonbrand having tons of people in there trying to attempt it too was not finger happy with their skills.

Walked around 10-20 of them at a time without them messing with us Sea of Sorrow players.

Though I am disappointed with PvP being mixed into PvE content in this manner. The little rival games like “Crab Toss” and “Dragon Bash” are one thing, but it was far from necessary to pick a PvP Jumping Puzzle as part of a PvE event.

Its not like its not already hard enough to do some of them under normal PvE conditions.

yeah, but the counter is five of us little carebear types from jq trying to get it last night, and a couple of SOR guilds had entirely ganged up to “protect” the beginning of the puzzle. we couldn’t take a step off our platforms for the ganking.

we are pve’ers. we don’t, as a rule, pvp or wvw. we just like playing our characters, doing dungeons, and collecting achievements. i have all the caches except this one, and i do not have the mini — therefore, apparently, i must have this one, also, to get the mini. further? we, my guildies and i, LOVE collecting achieves, and this one we’re pretty clearly not gonna get without our entire server behind us — and while jq is a fantastic server, i can’t see saying, “hey, guys, come wipe the floor with these folk so we can get this achieve.” oh, yes, and while you’re at it, we’ll just give up everything you guys have been fighting for the past several days …

yeah. as has been posted, it baffles me that a pve world content must be placed in a pvp zone, and it further baffles me that anyone has surprise that 1) SOME OF US DON’T PVP (gasp!) and 2) SOME OF US ARE UNHAPPY THAT YOU KEEP DOING THIS, ANET!

show a little love, anet. that’s all we ask! DO NOT REQUIRE THE TWO WORLDS TO MIX! some of your players do nothing BUT pvp/wvw, and some of us do nothing but pve. why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

[WM] from Blackgate is doing it now. I thought it was a respectable guild.

See, the problem with most people here appears to be that they try once, someone tells them “NO!” once or twice and kills them and they get all whiny and quit. The thing about the Obsidian Sanctum is that you should keep trying, since the campers always go away after some time. If youre afraid of breaking your armor, take it off.

Zomaarwat.3912:

See, the problem with most people here appears to be that they try once, someone tells them “NO!” once or twice and kills them and they get all whiny and quit. The thing about the Obsidian Sanctum is that you should keep trying, since the campers always go away after some time. If youre afraid of breaking your armor, take it off.

How many hours of waiting do you think is appropriate and to be expected?

zomaarwat, lol, we hung out there and tried for about an hour. 1) there’s the issue of the free “honor kills” these aholes were getting and 2) when it hits the point that you’re so bloody frustrated, it’s just not fun.

i game for fun. part of my fun is achievements. this setup denies me both the blackout cache achievement AND the meta for the caches — two achievements.

i have a lot of patience. i’ve out-waited pvp griefers for a long time, it’s no big. but after an hour, when their servers just keep sending MORE and MORE griefers to collect these free kills?

yeah. what am i waiting for, again, zomaarwat?

Zomaarwat.3912:

See, the problem with most people here appears to be that they try once, someone tells them “NO!” once or twice and kills them and they get all whiny and quit. The thing about the Obsidian Sanctum is that you should keep trying, since the campers always go away after some time. If youre afraid of breaking your armor, take it off.

Our group that was trying to get this achievement went back and checked more than once. The SoR group was still there camping the beginning of the puzzle. It’s not even “real” PvP. It’s simply farming badges of honor from PvE players who just don’t twitch fast enough.

I don’t blame the Maguuma jerks for ganging up on me repeatedly, chasing me down while I was there alone with their group of 5-10 people just to kill me.

What DOES upset me is that after this one player killed me, he jumped down from the jumping puzzle danced on my body and then proceeded to scarf taffy to puke on me. That is griefing and just being a kitten-hole. Fine, kill me after I’ve been trying to get my clumsy norn self through this puzzle for three hours, just don’t be a jerk. There is no honor in that.

And until I came to this thread I had no idea there were wells that gave invisibility. Heck, I didn’t realize there were torches before the dark room until I tried it a third time (but that’s my fault for not paying attention).

The living story is PvE content, putting one of the achievements in WvW is trolling on Anet’s part. I am not amused.

I have the mini already, it’s not the end of the world if I don’t get this achievement but darn it, I am going to try it again. Abbadon help me, I’m going to try it and if there aren’t a whole bunch of cowards camping the end and I’m given a fairish fight I might get to the end.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Adam.4103:

The problem is not doing pvp in a pvp zone but ANet adding PvE content in a PvP zone. In no way can anyone make sense of that decision.

If the reason behind this is to lure PvE players into WvW, or to encourage them to check out the WvW maps, then that’s fine – a valid reason in my opinion.

So you think that it’s a good idea to lure PvE players into a death-trap to encourage them to do more WvW?

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Adam.4103:

The problem is not doing pvp in a pvp zone but ANet adding PvE content in a PvP zone. In no way can anyone make sense of that decision.

If the reason behind this is to lure PvE players into WvW, or to encourage them to check out the WvW maps, then that’s fine – a valid reason in my opinion.

If that was the reason, then Anet showed they have serious trouble in understanding basic human psychology. The only thing that this managed to do is to widen the rift between PvE and PvP community.

If this was an attempt to get PvE players to enjoy WvW, then they will find it’s having the opposite effect. I don’t know about everyone else, but from what I understand of human nature I doubt that most of these PvE players will ever even want to touch WvW again because of it.

And to all of you WvW diehards, if your first introduction to WvW was getting repeatedly ganked by experienced PvP/WvW players with PvP/WvW builds against your PvE build (very different build types, btw) I doubt you’d want to return either.

How is it pvp in the puzzle when there are so many areas that allow one side to freely attack the other until they reach the ledge/area that the attackers are on?

It isn’t a jump puzzle it’s a free kill machine.

Having the cache in there is badly thought out, it makes me want to participate in wvw even less than I did before, knowing that at any given chance, people who call themselves ‘dedicated pvpers’ will resort to just camping people who can’t fight back.

Scrap wvw, it’s trash.

bravoart.5308:

How is it pvp in the puzzle when there are so many areas that allow one side to freely attack the other until they reach the ledge/area that the attackers are on?

It isn’t a jump puzzle it’s a free kill machine.

Having the cache in there is badly thought out, it makes me want to participate in wvw even less than I did before, knowing that at any given chance, people who call themselves ‘dedicated pvpers’ will resort to just camping people who can’t fight back.

Scrap wvw, it’s trash.

The design philosophy behind this JP was to let small groups of players hold chokepoints against a far larger amount of enemies. Working as intended.
That you need to complete this for an exlcusively timed achievement
however, was not a smart decision.

Why do people keep calling this a PvE achievement when it’s in a WvW map?

Devinchi.2756:

Why do people keep calling this a PvE achievement when it’s in a WvW map?

A jumping puzzle is still a jumping puzzle, whether there be WvW players or not.

Allow WvW to take place in a dungeon and it’s still a dungeon.

Being located inside WvW does not change what it is

Dedlaw.9130:

Devinchi.2756:

Why do people keep calling this a PvE achievement when it’s in a WvW map?

A jumping puzzle is still a jumping puzzle, whether there be WvW players or not.

Allow WvW to take place in a dungeon and it’s still a dungeon.

Being located inside WvW does not change what it is

What makes jumping puzzles exclusively PvE content? In fact, what makes Living Story achievements exclusively PvE content? There has always been achievements tied to both PvP and Living Story, such as dragonball and crab toss. Every time such a mini game exists, PvE exclusive players get upset that they can’t complete these achievements because they have to compete against other players to get them. I was actively preventing people on the other team from getting dragon ball wins for an achievement by killing them, so does that make me a griefer? How is this achievement any different?

Devinchi.2756:

Dedlaw.9130:

Devinchi.2756:

Why do people keep calling this a PvE achievement when it’s in a WvW map?

A jumping puzzle is still a jumping puzzle, whether there be WvW players or not.

Allow WvW to take place in a dungeon and it’s still a dungeon.

Being located inside WvW does not change what it is

What makes jumping puzzles exclusively PvE content? In fact, what makes Living Story achievements exclusively PvE content? There has always been achievements tied to both PvP and Living Story, such as dragonball and crab toss. Every time such a mini game exists, PvE exclusive players get upset that they can’t complete these achievements because they have to compete against other players to get them. I was actively preventing people on the other team from getting dragon ball wins for an achievement by killing them, so does that make me a griefer? How is this achievement any different?

The dragon ball achievement didn’t count toward getting the reward, in that case the wings. In this case, the mini.

People griefing in the JP are stopping others from getting the meta achievement and the mini reward. Playing in the dragon ball only stopped people from getting one achievement not tied to anything.

While I agree it’s annoying to have the cache there, and I’m not going to try to get it or the Caching Out as a result, you CAN get the mini without it or completing the dungeon. I did, thanks to getting Frizz down and /saluting at the start of the end fight (which I have not completed). That’s without doing Questions for Mai (hopefully available even to those who didn’t finish the dungeon).

I believe in showing respect to people. There is a new limited-time achievement in the EB JP, which would attract non-PvPers to the JP. If they clearly have no intention to fight, why be an kitten about it? It’s showing people as much respect as when you interrupt a duel or a GvG. Those things are widely frowned upon even among the WvW community, and this should be too.

Thanks to people from Blackgate’s [DTG] and [WM] for ganging up on and killing non-hostile people, especially from relative safety above the arena, in the middle of the JP. These guilds have shown that they have no class.

them PvE carebears got it all wrong.

this is not an attempt to get PvE carebears to try out WvW-Eternal Battlegrounds-Obsidian Sanctum-PvP

but instead an all you can eat buffet for the WvW-PvP regulars to feast on them PvE carebears.

working as intended.

Believe me, there are WvWers who don’t want to fight while doing the JP. They mind their own business and don’t bother those who aren’t looking for a fight.

But I guess there are always people with the maturity level of teenagers.

aelflune.8590:

But I guess there are always people with the maturity level of teenagers.

This is insulting to teenagers everywhere.

My personal experience about this hasn’t been great. I’m on CD, we’re currently fighting (losing) against FA and DB. I try to do this puzzle every day, the siege and badges from chest are nice. Saturday night I ran into problems. Several members of one FA guild were camping at the top of the arena room, pulling players off of bridge, killing them, and then portaling themselves back to top. After a couple failures, we managed to get a group large enough to kill them, only to find them above us a couple minutes later, as their mesmer up top had run off during fight and portaled them back up. After more stress, we managed to kill them again, once again finding them camping the top of arena room just a few minutes later.

Today (monday), I found the exact same guild camping again. With nearly the same results: around an hour lost dealing with these kittens.

The camping in this puzzle is ridiculous. Obsidian Sanctum was nearly empty before the Aetherblade update, so most of these people are doing these sorts of things only to grief the PvE players coming in. There is nothing tactical in shutting off players in the jumping puzzle. Siege blueprints are easily found as drops in WvW. Your server is not benefited in the least by doing this. Camping here serves only to ruin your servers’ and guilds’ reputations.

To those saying “it’s a pvp zone lolz gtfo carebears”: We already have pvp zones. Real pvp zones where all players enter with the explicit purpose of fighting other players. Do you know why players go to jumping puzzles? To complete the jumping puzzles.

I think the ideal solution would be to put in a ghost on each platform that, if talked to, transforms you into a ghost. While transformed, you have the Determined ability and are immune to all attacks, but it also disables all your skills. As a ghost, you also can’t open the Mistwrought Chest at the end. Exiting the transformation also teleports you back to the beginning of the JP.

This allows players who just want to get to the end of the JP for the achievement/cache to do so, but they also can’t hurt or hinder other players in any way.

Zaxares.5419:

I think the ideal solution would be to put in a ghost on each platform that, if talked to, transforms you into a ghost. While transformed, you have the Determined ability and are immune to all attacks, but it also disables all your skills. As a ghost, you also can’t open the Mistwrought Chest at the end. Exiting the transformation also teleports you back to the beginning of the JP.

This allows players who just want to get to the end of the JP for the achievement/cache to do so, but they also can’t hurt or hinder other players in any way.

An excellent idea, but I doubt it’ll ever happen.

Astral Projections.7320:

Devinchi.2756:

Dedlaw.9130:

Devinchi.2756:

Why do people keep calling this a PvE achievement when it’s in a WvW map?

A jumping puzzle is still a jumping puzzle, whether there be WvW players or not.

Allow WvW to take place in a dungeon and it’s still a dungeon.

Being located inside WvW does not change what it is

What makes jumping puzzles exclusively PvE content? In fact, what makes Living Story achievements exclusively PvE content? There has always been achievements tied to both PvP and Living Story, such as dragonball and crab toss. Every time such a mini game exists, PvE exclusive players get upset that they can’t complete these achievements because they have to compete against other players to get them. I was actively preventing people on the other team from getting dragon ball wins for an achievement by killing them, so does that make me a griefer? How is this achievement any different?

The dragon ball achievement didn’t count toward getting the reward, in that case the wings. In this case, the mini.

People griefing in the JP are stopping others from getting the meta achievement and the mini reward. Playing in the dragon ball only stopped people from getting one achievement not tied to anything.

But you don’t need to complete this one for the meta either.

In the end, we need to realize that we are not automatically entitled to every achievement in the game. Just look at the forum posts complaining that “X is impossible” or “Y takes forever to get”. If one tries to accomplish something but can’t or chooses not to, why should that person earn an achievement for it? How many people went akitten dragonball so that they could get the completion achievement and ruined the game for those on their team actually playing the game? How many have participated in rigged crab toss games to take turns getting a crabtacular?

It’s people like this who are complaining on the forums, and people like this I have no sympathy for. If you want to get an achievement that requires you to get to the end of a jumping puzzle in WvW, where it is quite clear that anyone is free to attack you and 90% of the obstacles are present only if activated by other players, then you have to deal with everything that entails. If that’s still too much, then forget about it and move on.

SynfulChaot.3169:

If this was an attempt to get PvE players to enjoy WvW, then they will find it’s having the opposite effect. I don’t know about everyone else, but from what I understand of human nature I doubt that most of these PvE players will ever even want to touch WvW again because of it.

And to all of you WvW diehards, if your first introduction to WvW was getting repeatedly ganked by experienced PvP/WvW players with PvP/WvW builds against your PvE build (very different build types, btw) I doubt you’d want to return either.

Actually mine was. The first time I went into WvW I got repeatedly ganked. That’s just how it is. I kind of feel bad for people trying to do it, so I’m not going to camp anything. I’m not going to tell anyone else not to though. You go into wvw, expect to get killed. Repeatedly. Until all of your armor is broken, until you want to give up. WvW is just as much psychological as it is about “skill”. If you can demoralize your opponents you have a great chance of winning.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Actually mine was. The first time I went into WvW I got repeatedly ganked. That’s just how it is. I kind of feel bad for people trying to do it, so I’m not going to camp anything. I’m not going to tell anyone else not to though. You go into wvw, expect to get killed. Repeatedly. Until all of your armor is broken, until you want to give up. WvW is just as much psychological as it is about “skill”. If you can demoralize your opponents you have a great chance of winning.

That psychological thing doesn’t demoralize your opponents, you know. It just kittens them off. And people do remember, at the very least, what server or guild did it. It ruins servers and guilds reputations.

There is a reason many guilds in WvW and many servers have the reputations they do. People who do that kind of thing in the jumping puzzles are part of the reason for that reputation, along with similiarly childish behaviour elsewhere in WvW. I can list every server I dislike in WvW due to antics I have observed or been subjected to. Out of politeness, I will not.

Again, this is the kind of thing that will drive potential people away from joining WvW instead of showing them how enjoyable WvW can be so they want to try it out more.

SynfulChaot.3169:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Actually mine was. The first time I went into WvW I got repeatedly ganked. That’s just how it is. I kind of feel bad for people trying to do it, so I’m not going to camp anything. I’m not going to tell anyone else not to though. You go into wvw, expect to get killed. Repeatedly. Until all of your armor is broken, until you want to give up. WvW is just as much psychological as it is about “skill”. If you can demoralize your opponents you have a great chance of winning.

That psychological thing doesn’t demoralize your opponents, you know. It just kittens them off. And people do remember, at the very least, what server or guild did it. It ruins servers and guilds reputations.

There is a reason many guilds in WvW and many servers have the reputations they do. People who do that kind of thing in the jumping puzzles are part of the reason for that reputation, along with similiarly childish behaviour elsewhere in WvW. I can list every server I dislike in WvW due to antics I have observed or been subjected to. Out of politeness, I will not.

Again, this is the kind of thing that will drive potential people away from joining WvW instead of showing them how enjoyable WvW can be so they want to try it out more.

I think it’s a flaw to even assume you can draw people into WvW to begin with. Some people will enjoy PvP, some will enjoy WvW (related but not the same, and others will enjoy PvE. Some (me) like all three. My GF hates WvW though. Nothing Anet does will get her into it. It’s silly to assume you can draw one group over to another. If someone is interested they will try it out.

What Anet could do that might actually work is improve on their tutorial systems. Give players going into wvw a better understanding of what is actually happening. Setup a tutorial area where you are given a quest to take supply and build an ac. Then you have to use that ac to defend a gate against enemy npcs. Etc.

I just think it’s foolish to ever believe you can draw people into WvW or spvp/tpvp. Either people will want to try it, or not. Trying to force them to mix is stupid.

Devinchi.2756:

What makes jumping puzzles exclusively PvE content?

That’s the problem – it’s not, when it should be. It has nothing to do with WvW

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I think it’s a flaw to even assume you can draw people into WvW to begin with. Some people will enjoy PvP, some will enjoy WvW (related but not the same, and others will enjoy PvE. Some (me) like all three. My GF hates WvW though. Nothing Anet does will get her into it. It’s silly to assume you can draw one group over to another. If someone is interested they will try it out.

-snip-

I just think it’s foolish to ever believe you can draw people into WvW or spvp/tpvp. Either people will want to try it, or not. Trying to force them to mix is stupid.

And this here demonstrates the folly of putting this cache in the WvW jumping puzzle. The rest of the achievements are PvE oriented. This sole one is in WvW and the cache meta-achiev requires all caches, including this one. That makes this one WvW/PvP instead.

What motivation would they have in putting it in WvW except to draw people into WvW? To provide free kills to WvWers as some trolls have stated? That would just be cruel and were that to be the case it would cause many to lose faith in ANet. I don’t believe they are that cruel.

You yourself just stated that forcing people to mix PvE and WvW/PvP is stupid. Yet that is exactly what putting a cache into the WvW jumping puzzle is.

Nearly 3 AM mountain time in Dragonbrand, and after spending over an hour helping players new to the puzzle through it on my ranger, a group of around 8 Crystal Desert players was at the top of the arena camping it.

Interestingly enough, Crystal Desert is losing in our match right now, so it’s pretty clear these players had somewhere they could’ve been doing something productive, but wanted 2-3 badges an hour instead.

SynfulChaot.3169:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I think it’s a flaw to even assume you can draw people into WvW to begin with. Some people will enjoy PvP, some will enjoy WvW (related but not the same, and others will enjoy PvE. Some (me) like all three. My GF hates WvW though. Nothing Anet does will get her into it. It’s silly to assume you can draw one group over to another. If someone is interested they will try it out.

-snip-

I just think it’s foolish to ever believe you can draw people into WvW or spvp/tpvp. Either people will want to try it, or not. Trying to force them to mix is stupid.

And this here demonstrates the folly of putting this cache in the WvW jumping puzzle. The rest of the achievements are PvE oriented. This sole one is in WvW and the cache meta-achiev requires all caches, including this one. That makes this one WvW/PvP instead.

What motivation would they have in putting it in WvW except to draw people into WvW? To provide free kills to WvWers as some trolls have stated? That would just be cruel and were that to be the case it would cause many to lose faith in ANet. I don’t believe they are that cruel.

You yourself just stated that forcing people to mix PvE and WvW/PvP is stupid. Yet that is exactly what putting a cache into the WvW jumping puzzle is.

I don’t mind trying to push players that generally don’t think about WvW to those areas. I think the exploration and such are a good push out of a comfort zone. My issue with the Cache in the obsidian sanctum is that, with time-limited content, you are telling anyone that wants to grief players to go there and do it. For a game where every mechanic seems to be to prevent griefing from being possible, this is telling people exactly how to go about it, and as we get closer to the content disappearing, more and more people will be desperate for that achievement, and that means more and more griefers coming out to camp them. I’ve been spawn camped, pushed off ledges, killed by traps activated by my own teammates, killed in the dark room, killed in the room after the dark room… for nothing. There is no consolation prize. I’m down about 2g in repairs already. This is supposed to be fun? Who would have ever thought this was fun? I’ll tell you who: the kittenbag that is camping the JP waiting for people like me (us?) to wander in. Certainly not the person that said they wanted to foster teamwork in all aspects of the game.

Well, the “getting people to check out WvW” was an assumption on my part – based on other achievements that are clearly designed to make players check out (or re-visit) specific areas, jumping puzzles, mini dungeons. IF this was the intention of the EB chache, I think it’s pretty clear how that failed. (As I said before, the Sapphire/etc. Sanctum jumping puzzle would have been a better choice for that.)

I can only think of one other reason to put the cache into the Obsidian Sanctum: players who mainly WvW complaining about the Living Story content being all PvE, while the PvPers get nothing. Now they got their own cache which is easy for them to get to, as they probably have plenty of practice with this jumping puzzle. (Any PvEer I talked to, including myself, did this particular JP only once, and never again!…)

So, good, now the PvPers can camp the cache, grief players, taunt players, and come to the forums and call them whiny little carebears (adding insult to injury, no doubt), and generally the whol thing is dividing the PvE and PvP community more than anything.

So, yeah, … hm.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Nearly 3 AM mountain time in Dragonbrand, and after spending over an hour helping players new to the puzzle through it on my ranger, a group of around 8 Crystal Desert players was at the top of the arena camping it.

Interestingly enough, Crystal Desert is losing in our match right now, so it’s pretty clear these players had somewhere they could’ve been doing something productive, but wanted 2-3 badges an hour instead.

CD doesn’t have enough coverage to do anything productive, or enough people interested in WvW at all. 2-3 badges an hour is more productive than what CD gets normally since being dumped on for 4 months previously before the matchmaking changes and set up against t1 and higher tier servers for 3 weeks now since the change?

Morale is low, players are mad, anet will do something fast and cheap to fix it that will just end up making it worse.