Guild Wars 2

When SAB ended I was like: oh, too bad it ended, that was fun, can’t wait to see more of it. But crab tossing… when I got my last achievement I was like “thank god I dont need to play this ever again”. It was the worst and most annoying minigame I’ve seen in a MMO.

It could be named crap tossing. The minigame sucks and the rewards suck even more.

You really can’t compare both, they aren’t really on the same category. One was a feature added to the game by its own, the other was a small part of a different update to the game.

While I think some might like the crab tossing game (I don’t like it much, it can be fun… but not for long imo) I think what really made most people want to get away from it was the achievements. Specially the Crabbtacular achievement (and in some cases the champion achievement as it can be really hard to get if you’re not too much into the game). Combine players not really liking the mini-game with the most annoying achievement to date and you got bad feedback.

SAB was beautifully done. The achievements list was good and the experience really enjoyable while offering some good rewards including new skins and access to certain items so the time you spent on it could still give you something you were looking for. I really can’t wait for it to return with more chapters, and maybe even more rewards after players asking for more SUPER skins for all the other weapons (a pistol or rifle based on the super skins design would look great IMO). It was really incredible that they did such a great job with something that was their April’s Fools. A-Net is well known for always offering a better April’s Fool every year and that was a great adition.

Lokheit.7943:

You really can’t compare both

But you can compare them. Seeing how popular the SAB was, I think you should compare them, because Crab Toss (imho) could have been a lot more successful if it had used some of the SAB principles.

SAB:

• Difficulty modes, players could progress at their own pace
• Varied achievements, something for everyone
• Play with/against friends – friendly and fun environment
• Guaranteed special rewards, plus chance for weapon skins
• Very popular

Crab Toss:

• Steep learning curve, high potential for frustration
• Few achievements, catering mostly to players who succeed at Crab Toss already
• Play with/against strangers – risk for hostile environment
• Guaranteed ordinary rewards
• Only half as popular as it could have been

My conclusion: with some minor adjustments, Crab Toss could have been a lot better, or at least a lot less of a source of frustration to half the GW2 population:

• Difficulty modes for learning to play(number of players, or karkas on/off mode)
• More varied achievements (denying, evading, use of tools…)
• Option to play with friends to avoid risk of hostilities
• Tokens and/or chance for sklerite skins, or other exclusive rewards

The last point is obviously inspired by wishful thinking, but even without it, Crab Toss would have been so much better. Exclusive rewards makes people suffer through more frustration, but they don’t alleviate the frustration, which should be the primary goal.

A longer, more thought out version of this ^ is here: What we can learn from Crab Toss – and I would love some more feedback on this, so anybody heading over to that thread and and sharing their thoughts is my hero.

to be fair, i’ve only ever played crab toss once.. and failed to see how that alleviated stress for the southsun folk.

then again, if it was IRL, that might be a different story. ; ))

Comparing a single player / coop platform game with a PvP activity… can’t see how that’s useful. If you don’t like PvP you’ll never like crab toss. If PvP is all you ever wanna do, you’ll never like SAB. /thread really.

See, but I like PvP and STILL think Crab Toss could have been 10 times better. Ot is not that simple, so no /thread.

For a start, in sPvP I can create a roster, which would have been great for Crab Toss, too (I wrote it up there).

I’ve been in SAB once, didn’t like it and never returned. I’ve played crab toss for many hours and loved it though (and still do). Tastes differ, deal with it. Nobody forces you to play it.

This is why I said it should have been a team game. It would be way more fun as a team game.

Iruwen.3164:

I’ve been in SAB once, didn’t like it and never returned. I’ve played crab toss for many hours and loved it though (and still do). Tastes differ, deal with it. Nobody forces you to play it.

Of course tastes differ.

The question is: what’s the taste of the majority vs. the minority of players? (ANet’s approach with GW2 so far has been to be very inclusive and cater to many playing styles.)

Surely a new mini-game being enjoyed by 80% of all players is better than a new mini-game being enjoyed by 5% of all players… right?

I have made suggestions that would have made Crab Toss more appealing to a larger range of players, thus making more efficient use of the time spent to develop a mini-game.

I don’t see why you would have a problem with that.

I don’t, actually that wasn’t directed at you I probably should have quoted it:

It could be named crap tossing. The minigame sucks and the rewards suck even more.

Ah I see. I’m glad we agree. Thanks for clarifying!

Didn’t bother trying crab toss.

Tried once, felt clumsy and awkward, somehow managed to win the round. Never played again.

I hope crap toss will go away today and never come back..

Cannot say I was the greatest fan of Crab Toss. Though I thought the added environmental dangers was a nice addition. There were some many fun ideas in Crab Toss, but I kept finding myself comparing it to Brew Brawl. Was it as fun as Brew Brawl, no. In the end, I found Crab Toss more frustrating then fun. Maybe it was the lack of team element?

I loved it. I agree that you should be able to compete with friends, but not in teams of 5. You could try a 2vs2vs2vs2 matchup. It would be bad if 5friends would play against 3 randoms.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

one of them was developed in a few hours by one person, and the other was developed by a team for a few months. Comparing the two really isn’t fair.

What is unfair? Crabb toss are amazing bad. Too much players, too much crabs and vets. Only chaos and nothing more. Players like SAB and it was removed. It is not fair.

I know this might sound funny, but what I would like to see is something like fishing.

Essentially the keg brawl, costume brawl and the crab toss are in the same PvP’ish category – add some more relaxing thing to do.

I really like crab tossing. SAB? Got bored of that after getting all those achievements. I want to crab toss even after this story is over.

SAB was probably the best mini-additions to GW2 to date.

This southsun stuff, on the otherhand, is really pretty disappointing (especially the crab toss).

ANet, please, take some time off from these mini-releases with temporary content and give us another good, solid dungeon, additional race, additional profession, and/or new skills/abilities for the current classes.

@ Robert: The crab toss really feels like it was made by a single person in a few hours. Considering how many achievements are focused on it, I think this is one of the main reasons that it’s so unpopular.

I’d say that the biggest problem is that there are so many achievements tied to the game. I don’t think it’s that bad but that it has more importance than it should have.

I don’t know about those who didn’t like this, but I feel stress free after stealing the crab and running under the Veteran Karka and watch then roll over all my pursuers.

Also another stress reliever is picking a rock, a stick, or an egg and just whack someone with it…who cares about the crab if I can beat someone until all my stress are gone.

Once I relieved all my frustrations unto some poor soul…time to try that Jumping Puzzle again for a 100th time. >:(

players who don’t like it probably never gave it a chance, it’s not easy and you have to play it for a while to get it. Everyone starts as a noob with no idea of how to play it, but it gets much much better after a while.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

one of them was developed in a few hours by one person, and the other was developed by a team for a few months. Comparing the two really isn’t fair.

That being said, Crab Toss isn’t for everyone. Some people enjoy those things and some people don’t. The good thing is that you aren’t forced to play crab toss to get the rewards, so you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. I personally enjoy it, and get a bit of a kick out of grabbin’ crabs.
Different folks like different things, and that’s okay. We’re trying to build content for everyone, so everyone can be excited about something with our release.

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

Is this helpful at all?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Learning-from-Crab-Toss-some-thoughts

Hmm. Weird. I never got any of the SAB achievements because I didn’t much like it. Crab tossing on the other hand? I’ve all the achievements from it and while I can’t see myself playing it every day I still found it much more fun than SAB.

PvE enthusiasts tend to like SAB more. PvP enthusiasts tend to like Crab Toss more. I personally loved SAB and think Crab Toss is okay but not great.

I think a practice instance would be great to lessen the learning curve, and taking it out of the dailies would help it feel like less of a chore.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

We’re trying to build content for everyone, so everyone can be excited about something with our release.

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

Any content coming up for the players that like challenges?
Would be really cool with some hard stuff that separate the pros from the noobs. Maybe some cool armor skins? Achievments? Titles? Come on i havnt had a challenge since halloween, im getting restless by just logging in making dailies and then standing in Lions Arch being bored.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

I think a practice instance would be great to lessen the learning curve, and taking it out of the dailies would help it feel like less of a chore.

Yeah, why is this a daily? That’s putting too pressure and stress in a in-game feature that suppose to relieve stress. :/

Can you leave this in as a permanent mini game?

I feel completely dim, lol. What is SAB?
I’ve played in every event since release pretty extensively, my brain is being a poop today. xD;

Super Adventure Box aka 8-bit-land

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Super Adventure Box aka 8-bit-land

Thanks, lol. No idea how I wasn’t putting that together.

I enjoyed crab toss. It was nonsense fun that didn’t require much thought. I didn’t go in expecting fat lootz.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

A fair point. If you would like constructive criticism…

1) The game could use a Team Mode and Solo Mode. The current gameplay is extremely difficult for a new player to learn, and extremely frustrating when they end up on the bottom of the scoreboard again and again. This turns people away from the match and lets good players dominate all too easily.

A three sided fight would be perfect for learning the game, since around 9 to 12 people could easily fit into a single arena for a good bought. Teams would provide players with a clear set of instructions (observe the guy doing well, emulate the guy doing well) while letting them win without being the best on the field. It would encourage players who don’t have the crab to grab items and thus learn their effects (if your team has the crab, it’s a great time to gear up). Finally, it would bring a little more tossing into crab tossing to make the name of the game make sense. Meanwhile, Solo Mode can be your hardcore setting, a game element for kings of the crab toss to test their mettle.

2) The game needs a better recovery mechanism. Players run around with close to zero health far too much in the game, with a lucky Southsun Punch drop as their only means of recovery. A channeled “Catch Your Breath” skill that prevents movement and takes time would be perfect for those moments when the crab is on the opposite side of the field and you need to recover.

3) Karka need to be reexamined. It would be far better to have them roll from one end of the arena to the other than the current semi-random mode. Likewise, karka hatchlings should either be removed or spawn in a far more structured manner. It is far too easy for one crab holder to never encounter hatchlings, then the next guy picks up the crab and gets “surprise lovin’” from seven at once. The current implementation is far too haphazard, and not in a fun way, creating a clustercluck of crustaceans which randomly pitch the match in someone’s favor without rhyme or reason.

4) Movement skills should be smaller bursts. The current dash is far too easy, allowing players to create too much distance, dodge about for a short time, then open up again if no one has prepared any elaborate defenses. Smaller bursts of speed on several skills would be more interesting and open up more tactics. Things will improve dramatically if the bulk of the game is decided in a serious of hectic skirmishes in close quarters, rather than headlong invulnerable rushes winning the game.

I don’t really like crab toss mini game. However, the Wintersday snowball mayhem is one mini game I would be happy if it is made a permanent feature of GW2. That game is addictive, fun and had so much hilarious moments.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

one of them was developed in a few hours by one person, and the other was developed by a team for a few months. Comparing the two really isn’t fair.

That being said, Crab Toss isn’t for everyone. Some people enjoy those things and some people don’t. The good thing is that you aren’t forced to play crab toss to get the rewards, so you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. I personally enjoy it, and get a bit of a kick out of grabbin’ crabs.
Different folks like different things, and that’s okay. We’re trying to build content for everyone, so everyone can be excited about something with our release.

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

We are forced to do this every day for AP from daily. Every kitttttttttttten day.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

one of them was developed in a few hours by one person, and the other was developed by a team for a few months. Comparing the two really isn’t fair.

Well, learn from SAB and get a team next time.

That being said, Crab Toss isn’t for everyone. Some people enjoy those things and some people don’t.

I believe way more people liked SAB than craptoss.

The good thing is that you aren’t forced to play crab toss to get the rewards, so you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. I personally enjoy it, and get a bit of a kick out of grabbin’ crabs.

I did it for the achievements (I like achieving achievements). Once they were done, I stoped. Well, Im not forced to play GW2, but when I do, I like completing things. So, considering my play style, yes, I was forced. And it was painful.

Different folks like different things, and that’s okay. We’re trying to build content for everyone, so everyone can be excited about something with our release.

As said before, I believe way more people liked SAB.

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive.

You gave me bad content, I gave you bad feedback. We can both try to do better next time.

If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time.

Cluncky control, bad designed skills (I thought the run skill was lagging for like the 1st 10 times I used or that I was getting stuck in terrain), crap load of conditions with long duration (crippling and knockdown are really annoying, specially for long times), achievements have bad tooltips (crabtacular!), annoying obstructions and VERY poor rewards for the time spend (maybe better now that the new items can drop with a really high chance – at least the high offer of them in auction house makes me think so).

Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

Ive been trying this during beta, didnt work. Trying again now, think that time Im doing better than op. Now you owe me a better minigame

If you’re going to compare Crab Toss with something, I think it would probably be best to compare it to Keg Brawl at the very least; or perhaps some of the other PvP mini-games released in previous updates. While yes, The Super Adventure Box is literally a “mini-game” it isn’t a mini-game like Lunatic’s Inquisition from Halloween or the Snowball Mayhem mini game we had during Wintersday. The SAB is more like a massive jumping puzzle with different challenges thrown in.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

one of them was developed in a few hours by one person, and the other was developed by a team for a few months. Comparing the two really isn’t fair.

That being said, Crab Toss isn’t for everyone. Some people enjoy those things and some people don’t. The good thing is that you aren’t forced to play crab toss to get the rewards, so you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. I personally enjoy it, and get a bit of a kick out of grabbin’ crabs.
Different folks like different things, and that’s okay. We’re trying to build content for everyone, so everyone can be excited about something with our release.

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

“..in a few hours by one person..” 0.0

Alright… It sucks because “few hours by one person” just sounds about wrong… Should have do more consideration and testing… and listen more ideas from other ppl…

Rozbuska.5263:

We are forced to do this every day for AP from daily. Every kitttttttttttten day.

no you’re not, you have the choice… in a way

@Anet: I’d suggest to grey out the other achievements when you’ve done the first 5 of the 10 available. Giving still points some people might think that they are forced to do this because they try to compete with others who care for the leaderboard-points. The reason behind being able to choose was so that no one feels forced to do something.

toafarmer.8401:

Cluncky control, bad designed skills (I thought the run skill was lagging for like the 1st 10 times I used or that I was getting stuck in terrain), crap load of conditions with long duration (crippling and knockdown are really annoying, specially for long times),

You were probably hit by a stone so that you can’t use a skill for a short time. I only experienced lag on day 1, which was fixed quite fast.

achievements have bad tooltips (crabtacular!), annoying obstructions and VERY poor rewards for the time spend (maybe better now that the new items can drop with a really high chance – at least the high offer of them in auction house makes me think so).

“Be the last player standing while holding the crab in the Southsun Crab Toss.” – how is this hard to understand? I’m from Austria and understand it perfectly fine. And you shouldn’t play the game if you’re doing it for the rewards imho.

I liked the Crab Toss game. I wish there was a mode that didn’t have the Karka’s in it, or perhaps just tuned to have less of them. Or it’d be cool if there were randomized dangers.

Oh, and this is the first time I’ve experienced a channeling move where I had to hold the button down to fully channel it (The run dash). That would have been nice to have been explained.

I liked SAB but never brothered on getting all the achievements, just did lots of speed run for the skins (gold farming)

Crab toss was fun for a while, got all the achievement with ease and have played a little more after that, of course not playing it all the time but I may join a couple games after farming in southsun.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Good feedback would be telling us about the things you didn’t like about it, and the things you did like about it. A nebulous statement of “It sucks” isn’t constructive. If you want to actually see change, you need to give clear feedback so we as developers can talk with each other about things we could change for next time. Whether its an activity, a dungeon, a boss, etc, giving us feedback about why something didn’t sit well with you is far more valuable than just telling us something didn’t sit well with you.

The thing I hated about Crab Toss (and this actually goes for Keg Brawl as well) is that the whole thing just feels too cumbersome and awkward. Compared with the abilities that our characters can perform in the actual game, the ones we’re given in these pvp instances just feel slow, unresponsive and downright frustrating.

Why does my character, who under normal circumstances can leap twenty feet while carrying a greatsword, get winded from running the same distance while carrying a tiny crab to the point that he has to stop and take a break? Why is it that a character who can furiously slash a dozen times with his sword at a moment’s notice suddenly become so weak upon entering a mini game such as this that it takes him a full second just to charge up a simple punch?

In short, why can’t the moves in these instances have the same level of responsiveness as the moves in the main game? Why do they always have forced delays and forced stops after every move to the point where it feels like you’re struggling to perform even the simplest actions? It’s such a jarring change from the main game. I don’t see why these abilities/games can’t be made more fluid and fast-paced while still retaining balance (in a self-contained mini-game it should be easy to balance skills no matter what their speed so I can’t help but be baffled by this design decision).

TL;DR – The mini-games force you to use abilities that feel clunky and unresponsive which is inherently frustrating and makes the learning curve un-fun to the point that I’m not even tempted to make the effort.

Nocturnal.5023:

I don’t really like crab toss mini game. However, the Wintersday snowball mayhem is one mini game I would be happy if it is made a permanent feature of GW2. That game is addictive, fun and had so much hilarious moments.

I loved the Winter’s Day Snowball Meyhem and I am not a pvp enthusiast by any stretch of the imagination. However, I had a great time doing it and was sorry I only discovered it the day before it went away.

My guild mates told me about it but by the time I was able to log into play, the event was almost over. I would like to see this reinstated as a permanent mini-team event for folks like me.

I really enjoyed it and would love to see it return.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

You were probably hit by a stone so that you can’t use a skill for a short time. I only experienced lag on day 1, which was fixed quite fast.

No, sir. the skill is designed in a way you stay “frozen” in place for a while after the speed boon. Took me a little while to understand that (and lots of other people as you can see on forums).

“Be the last player standing while holding the crab in the Southsun Crab Toss.” – how is this hard to understand? I’m from Austria and understand it perfectly fine.

Again, if you read the forums, you will see that A LOT of people understood you needed to be the last person with the crab in your hands when the match ends.

And you shouldn’t play the game if you’re doing it for the rewards imho.

I dont. I played for the achievements. Now you can get a 3g mini if you are lucky enough. Waste of time.

crab toss is fun if you don’t care about winning or earning achievements

crab toss is not even remotely fun. never mind comparing it to SAB, compare it to keg brawl.

in keg brawl, throwing the keg is useful, and you have teammates who can help you. in crab toss, there is no good reason to ever throw the crab because you don’t have teammates, so nobody helps anyone and it’s utter chaos.

and the baby karkas keeping you snared all the time is SUPER ANNOYING with no clear way to remove the debuff except try to find a way to die (which you can’t even do effectively because you can’t get near enough the crab to ensure that you get squashed by the big karkas).

then you go and put achievements in for it, but only a limited time to finish them. so you can’t even play this stupid game in small doses — you have to play it until you’re sick of it, then keep playing more if you want the achievements, which are difficult to get because finding yourself matched against cooperative players is so rare.

if you’re good enough to avoid all the un-fun things, it’s not like the game that remains is actually fun. run around and avoid other players and npc’s. yay.

normally I cut Arenanet a lot of slack but this mini-game is so awful I had to actually post about it. as soon as I’m done with the achievements I’m never doing this one again.

-ken

pass the crab to someone unexpected to get the small karka off you and on him, then get it back because he is slowed from the karka and has no idea what’s happening

worked quite well