Guild Wars 2

This thread is silly and nonconstructive. Appealing for it to be removed.

Rym.1469:

My first step would be to bound conditions to non-spammy atacks (such as engi nades, necro AA etc.), at least condition damage ones and reducing cleansing capability across the game a bit in exchange.

can we do the same with power type damage? No power type damage on spammy attacks and auto attacks?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Its not really the condition damage that is the problem. It is the NUMBER of conditions that can be easily applied without any thought at all. It is just spam, spam, spam. Then we get into Conditional removal which unless specifically built just to counter – not kill just counter condition builds mean you won’t be killing anyone and you will be killed by any hybrid or power build.

How does it “not take thought” to apply conditions? you have to set up attacks, land attacks, just as you do with with direct damage skills. What do you propose as an alternative?

I disagree with your assessment of condition removal. My experience in which I disprove it in game every day has me wondering what your basing it on. You appear to say the opposite of this on some of your elementalist thread post.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Pretty much every condition build has too many conditions, except Ele which have to rely on rune sets and Sigils to grab as many new Conditions as they can. Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

Define too many conditions please? What makes them to many? Why should all condition builds be limited on condition availability? For one, skilled or attentive players have no problem with it. Secondly, all your suggestion would do is promote everyone to use stun builds with direct damage instead. Which you have already complained about in post on that subject.

When you complain about stuns, and rant about conditions, whats left? Face to face fights with nothing on the side. Might as well buy you a copy of “Princess Margret’s Patty Cake Battle” and play that.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Rather than just spamming them from the moment you get into combat it should be about using the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT time. None of this Grenade spamming while at range and then spamming Pistol/Shield and Bombs. Or spamming auto attacks for conditions combined with Signet of Spite.

This just doesn’t make sense. Why are direct damage builds spamming there attacks okay? Yet condition attacks do less damage, and you come here demand they are singled out to be force slowed because you have trouble dealing with them.

I mean you contradict yourself in all of your elementailist post, demanding that they have more conditions and you constantly compare them to the engineer. It seems if they will done make the ele similar enough by adding conditions that you wish to nerf the engineer conditions availability. I mean you openly state you use perplexity runs and run a condi build in one post then a few weeks later your posting in another professions forums, demanding a nerf to conditions after you lose to them on your new profession.

Honestly, it often just appears to be poster after poster demanding the devs rebuild the game around them. There are 3,000,000 players with this game, and 50 players at most, who are constantly making these threads over and over and posting on them. What makes your guys inability to deal with conditions so special, that the devs should rebuild the game around you and hose the other 2,999,950 of us that have no problems dealing with them?

Rym.1469:

My first step would be to bound conditions to non-spammy atacks (such as engi nades, necro AA etc.), at least condition damage ones and reducing cleansing capability across the game a bit in exchange.

Since it has been proven 10 times over that grenades do way more direct damage then condition damage, isn’t this a bit hypocritical? I mean they do more damage as a direct damage AoE spam, and your okay with that, yet you are suggesting we should not be allowed to use them for conditions.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Its not really the condition damage that is the problem. It is the NUMBER of conditions that can be easily applied without any thought at all. It is just spam, spam, spam. Then we get into Conditional removal which unless specifically built just to counter – not kill just counter condition builds mean you won’t be killing anyone and you will be killed by any hybrid or power build.

Pretty much every condition build has too many conditions, except Ele which have to rely on rune sets and Sigils to grab as many new Conditions as they can. Look what Condi Necro and Engineer can do compared to Condi Ele. Any build that is built for Anti conditions won’t have a problem with Ele because Ele can not spam numerous conditions over and over again. That is how ALL condition builds should be.

Rather than just spamming them from the moment you get into combat it should be about using the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT time. None of this Grenade spamming while at range and then spamming Pistol/Shield and Bombs. Or spamming auto attacks for conditions combined with Signet of Spite.

Finally! Someone gets it!

The conditions need an overhaul badly. Each class should have access to 2 damaging conditions which means removing condition application from runes/sigils on top of removing them from classes. All damaging conditions should stack(damage balance needed), all conditions should have a secondary effect like poison(burns could remove buffs, bleeds increase endurance costs, etc). Stacking of conditions needs rebalanced since some are/would be easy to stack to 25 in seconds. Condition removal needs rebalanced so it doesn’t remove an entire stack.

The effect would be conditions would be actual attrition instead of burst. You wouldn’t need a ton of covering conditions to deal with removal since a single cleanse wouldn’t negate a ton of your skills. With all damage conditions stacking it balances them out damage wise and has the bonus effect in PvE of poison/fire combo fields not being absolutely worthless.

Gets what? All your suggestion does is completely remove the value of every single condition build. Forcing out build diversity, and forcing every player in the game, in all game modes to run direct damage and CC builds only. You idea would hyrt the game in all aspects.

The number of conditions really isn’t the problem considering those who have a number of conditions tend not to have enormous damage associated with each condition (e.g. really are you going to fear an engineer’s bleed?)

They are designed to make a mess of your condition removals unless you are very careful.

The issue is that there is too much defense in the game frankly. When you run condition damage you often get very tanky. That is where the fix should come in, on the ability to be tanky.

@bombsaway the problem is that it is attrition and “ability to be tanky” suggests you want the opposite for a condition build. Only 2 classes I know that get away with rampages gear that’s a warrior and mesmer, carrion was a thief thing. I mean what else is there? Toughness is a minor stat on condi gear except settlers the next step is remove toughness from them which is “see rampager and carrion”.

Also nobody is afraid of condition Eles sorry I have friends that ran it religiously but I never on any if my classes thought omg a condi ele. If you killed someone on a condi ele you could have killed them much faster on direct damage.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Look what Condi Necro

and this is the only thing that they can do right now.
chill/cripple(mobility), weakness(vigor), poison(healing abilities), chill/weakness(immunity)

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding? The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds Though the regen helps them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds. This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Then add in another weapon set. 6 condition application on a 60second cool down among other skills and you can see why Condition Necro is very strong. Fast easy to apply and spammable conditions. Poison should NOT be on an auto attack chain that takes 1.5seconds to complete and lasts for 4 seconds with no duration food or anything. Then you have The Bleeding, Chill, Torment, Immbolize and Fear from the DeathShroud skills as well.

coglin.1867:

I mean you contradict yourself in all of your elementailist post, demanding that they have more conditions

That is quite simple – If you can’t beat them. Join them. Though i have to say i enjoy playing my condition build MUCH more than i did when i played the condition build on other classes – Played Condi Engineer, Condi Necro and Condi Mesmer. The Ele just feels balanced when it comes to conditions.

We have to sacrifice Rune set, Sigils and damage to have a good condition condition build. I find hybrid to be the worst of both worlds.

Of course if i had the choice: Bring others to ele condition standard. In that they have to make sacrifices and can’t spam conditions. Examples being Engineer and Grenades. Plus Ele has no option of switching to range and spam conditions like Warrior, like Mesmer, like Necro.

Mbelch.9028:

I’m sure my two favorite condition fans are in here, but I’m just popping in to say conditions, at least chill for eles, need some type of correction. In my opinion, reducing the duration would be fine.

Nah, Chill just needs to not affect attunement swapping, since that is an ele’s weapon swap.

What your not getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

If ele is the “condition standard” you seek then you must not know how well people can bunker.

oZii.2864:

What your bit getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

Necro has heals for pretty much any situation. Plus they have Deathshroud so i wouldn’t really see that being the case. Necromancer i agree is the condition class. Does that mean they should be left unchanged? No.

As for Engineer – Condition class? Really!? So the turrets and everything are what exactly? I would never call them a condition class. They have a VERY strong (in my opinion one of the best) condition builds but that doesnt mean they are a condition class.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

oZii.2864:

What your bit getting ash is that necro and engi are condi based classes. If a necro made a thread complain about not having the healing ability of a ele it would be the same thing.

Necro has heals for pretty much any situation. Plus they have Deathshroud so i wouldn’t really see that being the case. Necromancer i agree is the condition class. Does that mean they should be left unchanged? No.

As for Engineer – Condition class? Really!? So the turrets and everything are what exactly? I would never call them a condition class. They have a VERY strong (in my opinion one of the best) condition builds but that doesnt mean they are a condition class.

I see some burning some immobile many condition procs ability to hybrid well. I guess I would rephrase that engi is a jack of all trades type whose arrow points a bit more toward condition.

coglin.1867:

a t s e.9614:

I guess they are nerfing crit dmg because the TTK ( time to kill) is too fast , they should also do the same for conditions and an additionnal 10% because condi builds are easier to play due to high defensive stats coupled with damage.

I know because I tryed both:

- condi warr 4k armor 25k hp
- zerk warr 2,4k armor 18k hp

Which build is easier? the condi. Which build does more damage? They both deal the same damage ( in a 1v1 situation) . Its just that condi is overtime and the other one is direct burst damage. Also direct damage can be easely negated with protection, weakness and high armor while condi dmg cant even be reduced.

You guys were happy cuz crit dmg got nerfed, wait till you see a perplex warr/mes/engi/necro destroying you in few secs with condis while being ridiculously tanky.

Also if you think that somehow this nerf will change the zerk meta in PvE you’re wrong, it will encourage it even more, PVT/cleric leech will be the first to get kicked from any sort of PvE content.

Anyway thats pretty much it, if you wanna nerf damage, you should also nerf condi.

Ugh, here we go again…………………………
You are comparing condition damage as a whole to a zerker build. The worst part is you are being intentionally dishonest about it. Example. A carrion geared warrior will not have any more armor then a zerker warrior.

Got a single fact to support your ultimate goal?? You comparing unequal statistical gear then avoiding offering information.

A soldiers gear warrior will out damage a dire gear warrior all day long and twice on sundays. Both of those geat sets have the exact same HP and armor.

Ican only assume you making your references to dire gear but your so none specific I cannot be certain. If your trying to claim that a dire warrior can even come close to a zerker warriors damage out put, then you truely do not know anything about the profession.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Yeah, reduce the amount of damage conditions do over X seconds so that total is less than the amount of damage that direct damage attacks do instantly.

Balanced.

Umm it already is that way. If your trying to claim it is otherwise, I challenge to yo offer some damage comparisons to support your skewed suggestion.

You’re back.

Again you demand evidence of people.
Again you fail to post any relevant data and just expect people to believe you because you know you’re right.

Why are you even trying?

Post relevant data/ comparisons that you’ve mentioned in almost every thread ( yet I have yet to find even though I’ve been actively searching) or give it a rest. Your credibility is around 0 right about now.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding? The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds Though the regen helps them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds. This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Then add in another weapon set. 6 condition application on a 60second cool down among other skills and you can see why Condition Necro is very strong. Fast easy to apply and spammable conditions. Poison should NOT be on an auto attack chain that takes 1.5seconds to complete and lasts for 4 seconds with no duration food or anything. Then you have The Bleeding, Chill, Torment, Immbolize and Fear from the DeathShroud skills as well.

How does a specific necro build represent condition damage as a whole?

If you have a problem with a specific necro build, make a thread about it. This extreme example principle you have developed, will benefit no one. Why should ele conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills? Why should mesmer conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills? Why should engineer conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills? Why should ranger conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills? Why should warrior conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills? Why should thief conditions be nerfed because you have a personal problem with a certain, specific combination of necro skills?

My point is, you cannot list a very specific build or or skill combination, and present it as if it were an accurate representation of an entire damage type across all the profession. Personally, I agree that debuffs such as poison (debuffing heals), vulnerability (debuffing defense), or weakness (debuffing endurance and damage) should not be on auto attacks. In my personal opinion, those are the 3 that should never be on auto attacks.

Harper.4173:

You’re back.

Again you demand evidence of people.
Again you fail to post any relevant data and just expect people to believe you because you know you’re right.

Why are you even trying?

Post relevant data/ comparisons that you’ve mentioned in almost every thread ( yet I have yet to find even though I’ve been actively searching) or give it a rest. Your credibility is around 0 right about now.

Aww, look, I have a fan. PM me for the autographed glossy you were previously asking me about.

You mean the previous necro videos another posted made just for you in a previous thread don’t exist to you? that is interesting.

What evidence or damage comparison did you post again? Please remind me. What build would you like a comparison of? Personally, of all the professions, my favorite is an engineer bomb build. Would you like me to compare those for you? If your so certain about your claims (and as you guys keep making claims firsts) isn’t the burden of proof a bit on you? What does your personal test state is the maximum damage out put a bomb engineer can do in dire gear? What do your personal test show it doing in Soldiers?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Necro has heals for pretty much any situation. Plus they have Deathshroud so i wouldn’t really see that being the case.

This is very misleading a necro either: heals “much” in any situation or he has death shroud the two are (unfortunately in my opinion) incompatible.

Kravick.4906:

[…]

Yes. Conditions should be able to outdo removal. Any healing must be always outdone by damage (I’m looking at your, healing signet warriors).

That’s undeniable.

But it should take more time than 3 seconds on average.

In GW2, there was 5 energy 2s recharge skills. Conditions fought against energy pools.

There were skills like Plague Touch , that allowed to virtually take out any and all conditions put on you as long as you have energy. And it was balanced, because you will eventually run out of energy, but at firs you could spam them a few times to compensate agaisnt enemies that were also spamming.

In GW2, they only fight against a few very long recharges and a few unreliable combos. And conditions skills like necromancer and elementalist fire scepter are much harder to avoid than melee or projectiles. Have you ever tried to keep dodging an entire Curse sequence or a flamestrike? It’s literally impossible. You WILL take bleeding, burning and poison eventually, unless you keep hiding behind pillars attacking with cleave attacks like Flame Jet or Wave of Wrath or something like that.

You use the skill, it has its effects, and almost instantly you may get reapplied anything you may have removed. You can try and wait until they have used most of their skills, so you can remove more. But if you do that, that’ll be more time for the conditions to take effect.

There’s no removal skill that will give you something like an effect that gets a ‘charge’ every 30 seconds and can keep 5 charges, so you can spam 5 times quickly, at the start, but then charges recover more slowly, so you can manage better against an initial condition spam.

And there’s nothing like a short immunity of 2-5 seconds to a condition you just removed. Remove poison, poof, instantly reapplied. Pointless.

Without something to make removal more meaningful, it’s rendered mostly pointless. And fights end up centered around an initial burst of conditions. There has to be changes so it’s possible to take better initial condition barrages, and there’s a bit more attrition other than a few things like Obsidian Flesh.

Why are you trying to dodge auto-attacks? They aren’t the bulk of the damage anyway. Dodge the Grasping Dead, Doom, Signet of Spite, Enfeebling Blood (definitely dodge the last two, or your dodging gets cut short), not the autos. Do you try and dodge Ranger Shortbow autos? What about Mesmer Greatsword? Thief Shortbow? Engineer Rifle? Warrior Axe? No? Then why are you blowing your dodges on necro/ele scepter autos and not on something that actually will hit hard.

So, lesson #1: you will be hit by attacks when facing a player. Pick the right ones to dodge.

Well, don’t translate it and it won’t be insane. Made up problem solved by made up solution.

Regardless, I’ll never play pvp in any aspect until it is brought under control.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding?(from what i know elm have it too) The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well (same as easy access to healing skills/regeneration) a. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) (elm scepter offer 2sec burn every 1.25 sec) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds (dodge it ) Though the regen helps (to gain the regeneration on necromancer you have to decrease the distance between you and foe and its not easy when you have only 2 dodge and no access to stability) them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds (1,25 sec cast time). This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding?(from what i know elm have it too) The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well (same as easy access to healing skills/regeneration) a. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) (elm scepter offer 2sec burn every 1.25 sec) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds (dodge it ) Though the regen helps (to gain the regeneration on necromancer you have to decrease the distance between you and foe and its not easy when you have only 2 dodge and no access to stability) them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds (1,25 sec cast time). This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Yes we have Bleeding as well. However you can’t Bleed and Burn someone at the same time unless you use a specific trait setup or waste a Utility on a TERRIBLE skill that will proc Burning (have activate in Fire then move) 3-4 times in 30 seconds on a 45 second cool down.

I would say that Constant healing is pretty much the top defense option for Ele, so they need it even with the insane cool downs and average numbers. does that mean that classes that have access to nearly every other condition should be able to perma Poison people? Of course not.

Yeah Scepter Auto attack offers Burning. However Scepter is a TERRIBLE weapon for a condition build. I have tested and tried all the weapons and it just can’t compete with Dagger main hand. I haven’t seen a SINGLE condition build using the Scepter – Why? Because it just isn’t worth it.

You get better access to Burning on Dagger and you get access to NEW conditions that the Scepter doesn’t have – Cripple, Chill, Weakness and immobilize. Sure the Auto Dagger is terrible but everything else makes up for it. That is what the Scepter doesnt have. While Earth auto on Scepter is great what you lose isn’t worth it because of the rest of the scepter skills.

Scepter:

Auto attack = Single Target Burn. Terrible damage
Dragons Tooth = Easily Dodged high damage, decent burn attack

That is it. That is all the Burning Scepter has. The ONLY good thing about the Scepter is the Earth Auto attack. Water Trident is pretty decent as well if you want a bit of healing. But concentrating only on the conditions you get:

Burning – 1 Single target, 1 AoE and easily avoided
Vul – 1 easily avoided AoE
Blind – 1 good. 1 decent but AoE
Bleeding – 1 good on auto attack.

So it offers NO cripple at all. NO Chill at all….

Why are you assuming they have no stability? Not every condition build is exactly the same you know. So they need to get close to the target, have you thought that maybe that is what they want? Spinal Shivers into DeathShroud and Dark Path is a pretty solid combo and it works MUCH better when at closer range.

I don’t think Auto-attacks should apply conditions. it just ends up becoming a spam-fest for condition users. Make them actually have to work for their results.

It’s completely a lie that there are more ways to remove conditions then there are to apply them and it will continue to be impossible until there aren’t any auto-attacks that apply conditions. These players get rewarded for spamming their 1 skills that requires absolutely no skill to use and yet it’s still effective.

Tom.8029:

I don’t think Auto-attacks should apply conditions. it just ends up becoming a spam-fest for condition users. Make them actually have to work for their results.

I personally think its okay for Ele before anyone screams about Bias i will say why – As long as its not burning on Dagger it is fine, i think Earth having Bleeding is okay because Earth isn’t a damaging attunement it is meant to be about conditions and defense. Now while the Dagger Earth auto attack could be the worst in the whole game that doesn’t mean it could not be fixed.

No one goes into Earth Dagger to use Auto attack anyway. The same can be said for the Scepter with with its better auto attack, it isn’t used for its conditions but for the toughness and blind as people use Scepter as a Burst weapon with Air.

With the lack of damaging conditions we only have Burning and Bleeding from the class having an Auto attack that applies one of them is okay because without trait and utility investment we would only apply ONE on any attunement auto attack. Unlike others which have plenty of access to conditions as well as plenty on auto attack and don’t lose 50% of their damaging conditions when they swap weapons. They will lose some of course but not to the extent that ele do.

I do think some classes need to have theirs adjusted especially on range weapons. You should not be able to stay at range or open a fight from range with auto attack spamming with numerous conditions

If you nerf conditions they become useless. YAAY LETS ALL WEAR ZERKER AND RUN AROUND WITH OUR ZERKER FRIEND IN ZERKERLAND! Get a reality check and learn to counter conditions or don’t roam with things that are not supposed to roam.

I personally think conditions shouldn’t be a main source of damage at all. I think they should be a little something extra to power/critical-related damage. It wouldn’t make sense to do this with the current stat system. But if they reworked it, I think it would be fine.

They could remove condition damage entirely and have conditions apply damage at a static rate. This way, people wouldn’t have to build for conditions but they would still be there. And because people don’t need to waste stats on them, they can be toned down; or at least the access to them can be toned down. But then since there would be less conditions, there should also be less condition removals. The moral of what I’m saying is, reduce easy access to conditions by removing them from auto attacks.

As the lesser class in the game, i get killed 90% by bursts than conditions.

As the lesser class in the game, i get cleansed of conditions by condition removal support classes 90% of the time (I do the same for them with my Healing Spring) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Spring

As the lesser class in the game, once i’m burst, it’s game over… any available burst removal class to help me? burst removal mechanic, spells, traits, i need you ?

Are there any burst removal utilities, spells, mechanics, class/s in the game ?

Why won’t someone, anyone, create a thread about nerfing bursts by 20% ?

Seriously,

how can you compare thieves, warriors, mesmers and elementalists to necromancer?

how can you compare thieves, warriors, mesmers and elementalist bursts to necromancers conditions?

why not ask for more condition removal?

Thieves, warriors, and elementalists have them, why not for the other classes?

I see what is going on here..

It’s a Master plan by these Elitist classes to continue to push further down their unfair non challenge, unequal and non diverse practices to the non elitist class/s, in the game.

It was the same Master Plan they used to over throw the Ranger class.

It is the same Master Plan they are now using to overthrow the Innocent: Necromancer class.

It is is the same Master Plan they are using to overpower, control the non elitist classes including their meta’s.

Thieves, warriors and elementalists are the responsible parties,

Eliminating any fair competition, diversity and any chance of equal opportunity is what motivates them

This act of violation, abuse, wrong-doing, maltreatment, iniquity, unfairness, unjustice and evil, must be eliminated, eradicated in the game, at once.

Guild Wars 2 is at war,

Guild Wars 2 is in hostility,

Guild Wars 2 is in captivity,

Guild Wars 2 must survive,

Order must be restrained.

In Justice must be held accountable,

In Justice will be held accountable,

Justice muse be served,

Justice will be served

for the Innocence,

for Guild Wars 2

Tom.8029:

I personally think conditions shouldn’t be a main source of damage at all. I think they should be a little something extra to power/critical-related damage. It wouldn’t make sense to do this with the current stat system. But if they reworked it, I think it would be fine.

They could remove condition damage entirely and have conditions apply damage at a static rate. This way, people wouldn’t have to build for conditions but they would still be there. And because people don’t need to waste stats on them, they can be toned down; or at least the access to them can be toned down. But then since there would be less conditions, there should also be less condition removals. The moral of what I’m saying is, reduce easy access to conditions by removing them from auto attacks.

See my post above.

I find that most of the time, it’s much easier to dodge the application of burst than conditions. Sure there are some instant bursts that you’ll really only be able to dodge based on luck, however most of them have a noticeable animation. I find most condition animation skills to be either nonexistant or extremely ambiguous/underwhelming.

I think you’re so used to the situation being the way it is that you’re just going to say anything to defend it against change. I know how to deal with conditions. I run in WvW with a boon-duration, condition cleansing, cleric build. I find it hold up pretty well, even in roaming situations. As I’ve said before, no amount of condition cleanse I have can cure the limitless supply of conditions that are applied from auto-attacks.

Tom.8029:

As I’ve said before, no amount of condition cleanse I have can cure the limitless supply of conditions that are applied from auto-attacks.

That’s been my experience in and why I stopped PVPing in any game mode long ago.

Well if you are removing the auto attack conditions I would not like you as my cleric.
Before I picked up my trapper ranger condi build I played a thief ( got bored of it) and a power warrior (also got bored). The condi builds are just much more fun to play. It would be really stale if there were only power builds in the game.

Shadowbane.7109:

Well if you are removing the auto attack conditions I would not like you as my cleric.
Before I picked up my trapper ranger condi build I played a thief ( got bored of it) and a power warrior (also got bored). The condi builds are just much more fun to play. It would be really stale if there were only power builds in the game.

I agree with you there. I do think conditions add an interesting flavor to combat. But I don’t think they should be a main source of damage like they are now. I think it’s pretty silly. I mean, you wave your hands at the enemy and they bleed and become poisoned and then you just run away from them and wait for them to die. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Don’t know if you played gw1 but there each condition had a set “damage” rate in the form of health loss/ second. It was fairly viable then because there were lower health pools back then. Now they tried to return conditions. ( Bleeding earth elementals FTW!)
If the part that annoys you about condition is that it’s immersion breaking then half the game should be removed :P The problem I as a condi user see is that I have lots of condi damage and also decent auto attack damage. http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vMEQNAV3YjEqUua3KurQ1aAYpYvAbKyUS2DDd8RA-zkxAINB5cYR0YrmFRjVzgpSJiq9BFRrmUAQMNC-w

That is a ranger build I’m using ( Don’t let the other rangers see it )

It has a very high condi apply rate while retaining decent power and tougheness but without that I would die too easily to power builds ( thiefs almost 1 shot me).

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Look what Condi Necro

and this is the only thing that they can do right now.
chill/cripple(mobility), weakness(vigor), poison(healing abilities), chill/weakness(immunity)

Ignoring the Burning? The Bleeding? The Poison up time is VERY annoying as well. Scepter/Focus offers – Bleeding(2×4seconds) and Poison(4seconds) on Auto attack every 1.5seconds. Cripple(5seconds) and Bleeding(2 stacks 7 seconds) every 10 seconds. 12stacks of Vul every 18 seconds Though the regen helps them as well and Chill + Boon removal every 20 seconds. This is based ONLY on the skills. No traits. No added stats.

Then add in another weapon set. 6 condition application on a 60second cool down among other skills and you can see why Condition Necro is very strong. Fast easy to apply and spammable conditions. Poison should NOT be on an auto attack chain that takes 1.5seconds to complete and lasts for 4 seconds with no duration food or anything. Then you have The Bleeding, Chill, Torment, Immbolize and Fear from the DeathShroud skills as well.

coglin.1867:

I mean you contradict yourself in all of your elementailist post, demanding that they have more conditions

That is quite simple – If you can’t beat them. Join them. Though i have to say i enjoy playing my condition build MUCH more than i did when i played the condition build on other classes – Played Condi Engineer, Condi Necro and Condi Mesmer. The Ele just feels balanced when it comes to conditions.

We have to sacrifice Rune set, Sigils and damage to have a good condition condition build. I find hybrid to be the worst of both worlds.

Of course if i had the choice: Bring others to ele condition standard. In that they have to make sacrifices and can’t spam conditions. Examples being Engineer and Grenades. Plus Ele has no option of switching to range and spam conditions like Warrior, like Mesmer, like Necro.

You dont know what sacrifice is until you make a condi guardian.

That’s what I was thinking. Each condition would supply a set debuff that can not be made stronger by going into condition damage, because in this scenario, condition damage doesn’t exist. Sigils and runes could still lengthen the dubuffs, but not make them stronger. I’m not sure if we’d have them stack in intensity like they do now for some of them, though.

Also, I absolutely played GW1. But i was never really a condition person. Except for maybe cracked armor.

The problem with that is that you have very diverse health pools in the game. 15k to 25k is a huge difference. By doing this condis would become even stronger because now one can spec into something else while retaining huge condi damage.
I belive the cap on health loss was 10 per second and the rest just blocked health regen.

Burnfall.9573:

Proposal

What i would do if i was a dev/Arena.net, i would completely remove all conditions from the classes, except for rangers.

Seriously ,

-what relations between conditions and warriors? Absolutely, None
-what relations between conditions and mesmers? Absolutely, None
-what relations between conditions and guardian? Absolutely, None
-what relations between conditions and engineers? Absolutely, None
-what relations between conditions and thieves? Absolutely, None

- -
-what relations between conditions and rangers? Survivability
-what relations between conditions and necromancer? Blood Ties

I kind of agree, that conditions are overabundant
some classes should have their conditions removed and some classes should have logical conditions:

mesmers should still have traited confusion .
thieves should have traited poison
guardian should remain with his pitiful burn
engineers should have traited bleed on shrapnel (bombs/mines/grnades) and burn on flamethrower.
ele should have specific condition for each attunement (burn, confusion, bleed, chill) and nothing more.
warriors should have no conditions at all

ranger should have access to bleed and burns from weapon and poison from traits. and all his pet conditions.

necromancers should have most of the condition variety.

I think Warriors having Bleed and cripple makes sense.

A thief can poison his blades an engineer can make his stuff shoot poison, fire, glue or make it explode to stun and bleed with shrapnel

Shadowbane.7109:

The problem with that is that you have very diverse health pools in the game. 15k to 25k is a huge difference. By doing this condis would become even stronger because now one can spec into something else while retaining huge condi damage.
I belive the cap on health loss was 10 per second and the rest just blocked health regen.

20 health/second, and yes. Conditions in GW1 were little more than an annoyance, outside of Weakness, Blind, Daze, and Burning. I’d honestly hate going back to the days of static output on damaging conditions (though Foul Feast/Melandru’s Resiliance N/R were hilarios). Conditions there were not intended to be a damage source, just low pressure.

Guild Wars 2 changed two things that make this model no longer work: the addition of passive abilities (GW1 had none) and the removal of the Energy system. Low pressure worked in GW1 because people had to make a choice of not only when to use their condition removals, but also if removing them at all was worth the energy to do so. In GW2, that’s no longer a choice: you just use the condition removal. In addition, in GW1, there were no passive condition removals to worry about. Everything was active.

In addition, you did not have the issue of “glass cannon” or “bunker” specs. Everyone had equal amounts of health and your profession determined your armor. As such, “pressure” builds could use static values to work. In GW2, what’s “light perssuer” against a Warrior can be downright lethal to a thief or ele.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

and why are you assuming elm dont use specter or earth on dagger? maybe im the same expert as you when it comes to necromancer

No one goes into Earth Dagger to use Auto attack anyway. The same can be said for the Scepter with with its better auto attack, it isn’t used for its conditions but for the toughness and blind as people use Scepter as a Burst weapon with Air.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

and why are you assuming elm dont use specter or earth on dagger? maybe im the same expert as you when it comes to necromancer

No one goes into Earth Dagger to use Auto attack anyway. The same can be said for the Scepter with with its better auto attack, it isn’t used for its conditions but for the toughness and blind as people use Scepter as a Burst weapon with Air.

Because they don’t. Earth Auto attack is useless if you are any build other than Condition and as i have already stated Scepter is a TERRIBLE choice if you are going condition ele.

Even on Dagger the Auto attack is SHOCKING. It is just wasted time. You are wasting time trying to attack with Earth Dagger. You are not going to be using Earth Scepter because Scepter is a Burst/damage weapon and thus you will spend 99% of your time in Air.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

As i have said Not everyone runs the same builds. I know that i didn’t run with Terror on my old Condition build. So no. Not everyone runs with them specific traits.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

As i have said Not everyone runs the same builds. I know that i didn’t run with Terror on my old Condition build. So no. Not everyone runs with them specific traits.

I can say the same about earth/scepter on elm.

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Simon.3794:

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Top meta is 1-2 condition builds everything else is direct damage. What you suggest makes top meta 0 condition builds because they wont live long enough to matter.

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

pierwola.9602:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Why are you assuming they have no stability?

Because they don’t. I can count: 70-30(burn)-20(terror)= 20 free trait points

As i have said Not everyone runs the same builds. I know that i didn’t run with Terror on my old Condition build. So no. Not everyone runs with them specific traits.

I can say the same about earth/scepter on elm.

Have you played Ele?
Scepter is a Power/burst weapon. The Earth Auto is useless in such builds. You wont be using. You may go in for the Toughness and the Line AoE Blind but then you will jump out. You dont waste time using the Auto attack because Air is MUCH better.

The same can be said for the Dagger Earth. While Bleeding is nice, the direct damage being linked to one target with a terrible animation and terrible design. You will spend more time in Fire and Air, going into Water for healing and such. You go into Earth for an attempt at immobilizing a target (though it bugs out a lot) and Ring of Earth and then you go out.

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Top meta is 1-2 condition builds everything else is direct damage. What you suggest makes top meta 0 condition builds because they wont live long enough to matter.

i dont know how they cant live longer then berserkers.
but ofc, a no condition meta would be a hell better future.

Simon.3794:

oZii.2864:

Simon.3794:

they should just remove rabid and carrion amulet from pvp

rampager and celestial condition build should be the only viable condition build.

Top meta is 1-2 condition builds everything else is direct damage. What you suggest makes top meta 0 condition builds because they wont live long enough to matter.

i dont know how they cant live longer then berserkers.
but ofc, a no condition meta would be a hell better future.

If you truly believe this, then you should not be included in any discussions on the meta or balance in general. I don’t know if you’re being serious, but this doesn’t just go for you, but for anyone who thinks an entire type of play should simply not exist because it frustrates them to have to deal with it.