Guild Wars 2

Have you given the Frost spirit an internal cool down? Because If you have you have made the skill practically pointless in any game mode. The average party damage buff went from 7% to 0,7%.

Please answer

While this not being amazing news, quite sad ones honestly, I believe many new rangers were always concerned about the tooltip and actual effect. So now they’ve fixed it.

Probably pre-fix to some other change. If not, it will take place among Search and Rescue.

Frost spirit and spotter are 100% of the reason to bring a ranger into a dungeon.

So now there’s 50% of that reason.

Doesn’t bother me anymore. Leveled one profession of PvE Holy Trinity and I’m fine. I won’t trouble myself anymore in PvE with anything else unless they fix AI and overall situation.

The moment where ranger was going to shine and become a great class is now negated because of ‘bug fixes’.

It feels like they are pushing more and more people towards running warrior, guardian and thief lately even though these classes have been fine for a while because of all these fixes.

I guess I have a personal problem with the changes because Necromancer and Ranger are my most played classes.

Kind of funny how a single stack of vuln now does more than entire utility skill.

spoj.9672:

Kind of funny how a single stack of vuln now does more than entire utility skill.

And that utility skill still kind of needs 2 (if not 3) traits to function even at that level.

Atherakhia.4086:

spoj.9672:

Kind of funny how a single stack of vuln now does more than entire utility skill.

And that utility skill still kind of needs 2 (if not 3) traits to function even at that level.

For dungeons you only need the adept tier trait. For open world content you might add so that they follow you. The grandmaster trait has no use in PvE.

As for the change to FS.. It has to be some kind of an oversight. It’s worthless in its current state, both traited and untraited.

Well with the icd, traiting it doesnt improve it anymore. 35% or 70% chance will still only proc a max of once every 10 seconds. So its less than or equal to a 1% dps boost.

Now you know how us Mesmarz feel about the Sword3 “fixes”.

Pats Rangers on shoulder we’ll get through this…

Esplen.3940:

Now you know how us Mesmarz feel about the Sword3 “fixes”.

Pats Rangers on shoulder we’ll get through this…

thank god they are fixing that ‘fix’ in the next patch. meanwhile, undocumented change to ranger so close to patch day that was supposed to make ranger more viable that makes them less viable than they were as a whole. Sword 3 missing doesnt kill mesmer DPS spot like this does to ranger in dungeons.

Esplen.3940:

Now you know how us Mesmarz feel about the Sword3 “fixes”.

Pats Rangers on shoulder we’ll get through this…

Not to sound too naggy, but the ranger just got dumped in the far bottom tier for dungeons (even with the buffs it will recieve in the feature pack), and the frost spirit just teamed up with Search and Rescue for being one of the most useless skills in the game. The mesmer sword is, to say the least, usable in comparison..

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

Now you know how us Mesmarz feel about the Sword3 “fixes”.

Pats Rangers on shoulder we’ll get through this…

Not to sound too naggy, but the ranger just got dumped in the far bottom tier for dungeons (even with the buffs it will recieve in the feature pack), and the frost spirit just teamed up with Search and Rescue for being one of the most useless skills in the game. The mesmer sword is, to say the least, usable in comparison..

If we’re going to talk about utility skills, keep in mind Mesmers have skills like Mimic, Illusion of LIfe, and basically every Signet (bar Ether) which all have very, very niche uses and rarely bring something helpful to the table (worth a utility slot).

This is talking about Mimic both before and after the patch.

Esplen.3940:

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

Now you know how us Mesmarz feel about the Sword3 “fixes”.

Pats Rangers on shoulder we’ll get through this…

Not to sound too naggy, but the ranger just got dumped in the far bottom tier for dungeons (even with the buffs it will recieve in the feature pack), and the frost spirit just teamed up with Search and Rescue for being one of the most useless skills in the game. The mesmer sword is, to say the least, usable in comparison..

If we’re going to talk about utility skills, keep in mind Mesmers have skills like Mimic, Illusion of LIfe, and basically every Signet (bar Ether) which all have very, very niche uses and rarely bring something helpful to the table (worth a utility slot).

This is talking about Mimic both before and after the patch.

Well, it wasn’t I who compared the FS to the sword in the first place. But it’s not like any of these skills were changed and completely wrecked the mesmer’s position in any meta.

If they give it such a high cd they have to Buff the effect over the top, make it a physical damage proc which can crit.

this is an insane “nerf-fix”…………..does anyone on Anet check things out before making stealth changes? if forum goers can run through the math to see that a fully traited FS yields about a 1% damage increase…..1 vuln stack!….how can these devs not?

Teckos.1305:

If they give it such a high cd they have to Buff the effect over the top, make it a physical damage proc which can crit.

So if it procs on a crit, it can crit again, effectively giving you squaring your critical damage on a 0.1 co-efficient.

Since the “meta” revolves around critting hard, you’re looking at around a 40% damage increase on the skill that activated the effect.

While most skills won’t utilize it to the best of it’s ability, imagine if you got that proc off a Maul?

Let me go cry in a corner now because I play Mesmer and we’re made up of lots of tiny hits (unless you count our Phantasms).

This has basically killed PVE rangers. Without Spotter and Frost Spirit, they won’t bring much to the table for a group in dungeon runs or open world content. Thanks to this nerf, all we’re left with is one trait, and it obviously won’t be enough to hold our (already rather average) support in dungeons.

And to think, I was actually looking forward to dusting off my ranger for the new patch… I guess I’ll just have to stick toward the devs’ favorites – OP warrior and guardian – for the rest of the game.

Really Anet, you’re making it harder and harder for me to find motive to continue playing this game with each and every passing day.

Esplen.3940:

Teckos.1305:

If they give it such a high cd they have to Buff the effect over the top, make it a physical damage proc which can crit.

So if it procs on a crit, it can crit again, effectively giving you squaring your critical damage on a 0.1 co-efficient.

Since the “meta” revolves around critting hard, you’re looking at around a 40% damage increase on the skill that activated the effect.

While most skills won’t utilize it to the best of it’s ability, imagine if you got that proc off a Maul?

Let me go cry in a corner now because I play Mesmer and we’re made up of lots of tiny hits (unless you count our Phantasms).

That’s the purpose a proc which is game changing when built around.

Lazze.9870:

Not to sound too naggy, but the ranger just got dumped in the far bottom tier for dungeons (even with the buffs it will recieve in the feature pack), and the frost spirit just teamed up with Search and Rescue for being one of the most useless skills in the game. The mesmer sword is, to say the least, usable in comparison..

Don’t worry, Necromancers will show you the ropes of being garbage tier in PvE, we’ve got 2 years of experience at it.

Teckos.1305:

Esplen.3940:

Teckos.1305:

If they give it such a high cd they have to Buff the effect over the top, make it a physical damage proc which can crit.

So if it procs on a crit, it can crit again, effectively giving you squaring your critical damage on a 0.1 co-efficient.

Since the “meta” revolves around critting hard, you’re looking at around a 40% damage increase on the skill that activated the effect.

While most skills won’t utilize it to the best of it’s ability, imagine if you got that proc off a Maul?

Let me go cry in a corner now because I play Mesmer and we’re made up of lots of tiny hits (unless you count our Phantasms).

That’s the purpose a proc which is game changing when built around.

The only thing is that with a 35% chance to proc and a 10s ICD, there’s no reason to trait it and it’s literally “plug and play” (or, in this case “pick up and run”) because there’s no investment, no downside, no reason not to be running it.

The only downside I can possibly fathom is you aren’t running… Lightning Reflexes, which isn’t particularly necessary if a still AI can survive.

While I do disagree with the addition of the ICD, it does make sense from a purely bug fixing standpoint. After it’s fixed, they can take the time to figure out a Sword3 (referring to Mesmers again) update to make it relevant again. Hopefully you won’t have to wait until a feature patch.

Sick em, Zephyr with SotW for bursts.

Esplen.3940:

Teckos.1305:

Esplen.3940:

Teckos.1305:

If they give it such a high cd they have to Buff the effect over the top, make it a physical damage proc which can crit.

So if it procs on a crit, it can crit again, effectively giving you squaring your critical damage on a 0.1 co-efficient.

Since the “meta” revolves around critting hard, you’re looking at around a 40% damage increase on the skill that activated the effect.

While most skills won’t utilize it to the best of it’s ability, imagine if you got that proc off a Maul?

Let me go cry in a corner now because I play Mesmer and we’re made up of lots of tiny hits (unless you count our Phantasms).

That’s the purpose a proc which is game changing when built around.

The only thing is that with a 35% chance to proc and a 10s ICD, there’s no reason to trait it and it’s literally “plug and play” (or, in this case “pick up and run”) because there’s no investment, no downside, no reason not to be running it.

AH i see the issue an higher damage increase(50-60%) for one hit, fire and forget won’t be an options(or at least won’t be the best one) since if you want the get the most out of the proc, 35% chances makes it quite unreliable.

Esplen.3940:

While I do disagree with the addition of the ICD, it does make sense from a purely bug fixing standpoint.

As some other guy put it in another thread:

I suspect the original designer carried over the 35% chance and 10s ICD from the other spirits, then did the math I did above and found out the spirit basically does nothing. So he “fixed” it by removing the ICD, but didn’t document in the code why he removed it. A new programmer was probably assigned to fix old bugs, saw the ICD was disabled on FS, and re-enabled it without understanding the effect it would have.

Considering how terrible FS currently is, I think this is just as likely as the skill now working as intended. Especially since the “bug” was never touched upon when one of the devs mentioned FS in a PvE ranger guide. He specifically said that the FS granted about a 7% damage buff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y8uGM1CGV8g#t=790).

I don’t get why a skill such as this should have an ICD in the first place. Wouldn’t just having it be X% to deal Y% more damage be way way easier to balance since it’s a flat damage gain at a high enough proc chance?

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

While I do disagree with the addition of the ICD, it does make sense from a purely bug fixing standpoint.

As some other guy put it in another thread:

I suspect the original designer carried over the 35% chance and 10s ICD from the other spirits, then did the math I did above and found out the spirit basically does nothing. So he “fixed” it by removing the ICD, but didn’t document in the code why he removed it. A new programmer was probably assigned to fix old bugs, saw the ICD was disabled on FS, and re-enabled it without understanding the effect it would have.

Considering how terrible FS currently is, I think this is just as likely as the skill now working as intended. Especially since the “bug” was never touched upon when one of the devs mentioned FS in a PvE ranger guide. He specifically said that the FS granted about a 7% damage buff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y8uGM1CGV8g#t=790).

Just like how Sword3 on Mesmer got changed for no reason other than the tooltip, causing Anet to have to fix it without reverting it because that would be admitting to their wrong?

Esplen.3940:

Just like how Sword3 on Mesmer got changed for no reason other than the tooltip, causing Anet to have to fix it without reverting it because that would be admitting to their wrong?

I don’t know the whole story behind the mesmer sword, so I couldn’t say.

But the change didn’t completely shatter (pun intended) one of your meta builds in process, or leave you with a skill that is now totaly useless. Rangers just got pushed far behind close to a patch that was supposed to buff them. My previous excitement for the feature pack is non-existent at the moment.

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

Just like how Sword3 on Mesmer got changed for no reason other than the tooltip, causing Anet to have to fix it without reverting it because that would be admitting to their wrong?

I don’t know the whole story behind the mesmer sword, so I couldn’t say.

But the change didn’t completely shatter (pun intended) one of your meta builds in process, or leave you with a skill that is now totaly useless.

It left us with a skill that had very little of the intended effect. Since clones die within a glance from an opposing critter, if it actually manages to make the leap (and not do a stutter step slower than Agent Spire who hasn’t learned the concept of talking while walking, because when you’re in a rush, you should walk from point a to point b while stopping to tell people ahead of you to hurry up), a Mesmer is unable to utilize the swap/stun break meaning it can’t be held as a stun break.

Since the clone is most likely going to die if it succeeds, it’s only purpose is that of a telegraphed immobilize (there is no other immobilize in the game that’s telegraphed this much, bar Necromancer Dagger).

So yeah, saying that this skill isn’t entirely useless is like saying that the new FS isn’t entirely useless. I mean, you can still use that to apply Chill and it does still add a damage boost, it’s just nowhere near what it used to be, because it was clearly gamebreaking, amirite?

Yes, 7% average damage boost down to 0,7%. Simply funny.

Chokolata.1870:

Yes, 7% average damage boost down to 0,7%. Simply funny.

That’s not even remotely close to accurate unless you only strike the enemy 10 times every 10 seconds and hit for the same amount on each strike.

Esplen.3940:

So yeah, saying that this skill isn’t entirely useless is like saying that the new FS isn’t entirely useless. I mean, you can still use that to apply Chill and it does still add a damage boost, it’s just nowhere near what it used to be, because it was clearly gamebreaking, amirite?

Well, you keep jumping over the fact that one change had a profound effect on a build, the other one hadn’t to the same degree. Aside from that, FS right now is entirely useless. The damage boost isn’t worth mentioning (equals to one stack of vuln. From an utility skill. Seriously), and no one ever cared for the chill. In order to skill reset the spirit and have it off cooldown for your next encounter, you shouldn’t be activating it anyway.

And on top of that, a trait that previously boosted the damage buff from 3,5 % to 7% no longer grants a noticable difference! The skill as a stand alone is garbage, and we lost the most important part of our PvE meta build. When comparing the two changes, there is to me no doubt that the ranger got hit the hardest. A badly telegraphed immobolize on a weapon skill is better than a utility skill with no use whatsoever.

Lazze.9870:

A badly telegraphed immobolize on a weapon skill is better than a utility skill with no use whatsoever.

It’s not really an immobilize unless they stand still. Sword3 got hit to the point where it’s just a clone generation skill. Just like your spirit is no longer a damage boost, it’s just a chill.

Oh, and we can’t swap it to something more useful.

Esplen.3940:

Oh, and we can’t swap it to something more useful.

To put it like this: I would gladly take a subpar weapon skill if I could trade back my class’ only niché (besides spotter) in dungeons, fractals and pve in general.

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

Oh, and we can’t swap it to something more useful.

To put it like this: I would gladly take a subpar weapon skill if I could trade back my class only niché (beside spotter) in dungeons.

Except this affects more than dungeons for Mesmers.

Esplen.3940:

Lazze.9870:

Esplen.3940:

Oh, and we can’t swap it to something more useful.

To put it like this: I would gladly take a subpar weapon skill if I could trade back my class only niché (beside spotter) in dungeons.

Except this affects more than dungeons for Mesmers.

“More than”… The third skill on your sword has no use outside a pvp enviroment, just like the frost spirit has no use outside pve.

The difference however, is that our most viable build for an entire game mode got nerfed to the ground. The ranger is, pve wise, in a worse place after the feature pack than what it was before the “stealth fix” happened.! That can’t be said about the mesmer, and at this point I can’t be bothered if you don’t agree with that.

Spirits need an overhaul. All four of them need to be re-worked into a more strategic form of buff as opposed to a % chance to proc an effect. We wouldn’t need to go far for ideas, as Guild Wars had plenty of great ones.

Leave them destroyable, leave the traits. Change their primary effect and their names to match.

Really, take your pick: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nature_ritual

And many of these could easily be adapted to fit the GW2 combat engine. Energizing Wind? Maybe reduce the cooldowns of all skills by 10% for up to 5 allies in range of the spirit?

Eh, I’ll keep dreaming.

Sevans.4619:

Maybe reduce the cooldowns of all skills by 10% for up to 5 allies in range of the spirit?

Eh, I’ll keep dreaming.

Opposite of Chill? Me likey.

Sevans.4619:

Spirits need an overhaul. All four of them need to be re-worked into a more strategic form of buff as opposed to a % chance to proc an effect. We wouldn’t need to go far for ideas, as Guild Wars had plenty of great ones.

Leave them destroyable, leave the traits. Change their primary effect and their names to match.

Really, take your pick: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nature_ritual

And many of these could easily be adapted to fit the GW2 combat engine. Energizing Wind? Maybe reduce the cooldowns of all skills by 10% for up to 5 allies in range of the spirit?

Eh, I’ll keep dreaming.

Edge of extinction!

Are you serious? They are nerfing the one of the utility that gives people a reason to allow Rangers into dungeons? Ok Devs can you please put away the scalpel and stop cutting away things that we aren’t complaining about?

Who need spotter? 100% crit is not a problem. Frost is (was) the only good skill

McWolfy.5924:

Who need spotter? 100% crit is not a problem.

/laughs

ICD’s don’t make any sense on any of the spirits with the exception of the Stone Spirit, and in the case of the Stone Spirit they should just up the protection uptime to 5-6 seconds.

To be honest, most rangers were not even taking more than Frost Spirit, because the Sun spirit is made obsolete by having a guardian or ele in the group.

And spirits don’t even compete with banners, which are also invulnerable and can be moved without needing a trait.

I’d rather they make the sun spirit provide might or fury procs so the ranger can also fill a boon stacking niche for the group.

Of course, the ideal would be for spirits to be even less boring and for them to borrow from the gw1 implementation of actually changing a combat environment’s rules.

Either way, especially with the change to signets most rangers will just bring sic em and signet of the wild alongside frost spirit (not nerfed). If frost spirit remains useless they can just replace it with Quickening Zephyr.

Frost Spirit wouldn’t be the first thing they made obsolete (like when they nerfed BM traits and moved pet swap quickness up and gave BM rangers on the adept level a useless trait like quickness for pet when teh ranger is downed, lol).

Rangers have been paying in PvE and WvW for all the crying in spvp about spirit rangers (and then warriors and s/d thieves came and wiped them out of the spvp meta).

really really bad change if it was intended
needs fixing fast if it was unintended.

someone did the math and apparently this makes Frost Spirit as effective as a single application of vulnerability….

Bump. An ANet response would be nice. Was this change intentional? If so, why?

good thing a mesmer-ranger P-ing match between whose skill bug is worse, takes up more than half of the thread.

the thread in the bug forum has barely any posts….its kinda remarkable, as this nerf-fix destroys the only reason to take a ranger to 5-man instance (spotter is nice, but the party-wide +7% dmg from FS was the main reason). surprised there is less uproar.

guess not as sexy as kittening about torment on mesmer scepter AA (which math proved was “meh” at best).

Reddit thread had 300 replies, guess the forums aren’t as popular.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

Reddit thread had 300 replies, guess the forums aren’t as popular.

then i hope the devs read reddit.

Has anybody tested this besides to OP or are we just taking his word.

Seems crazy this would happen as a dev in the past even mentioned there is suppose to be no ICD on FS

rpfohr.7048:

Has anybody tested this besides to OP or are we just taking his word.

Seems crazy this would happen as a dev in the past even mentioned there is suppose to be no ICD on FS

Several people have tested it and posted the maths w/ screenshots.

rpfohr.7048:

Has anybody tested this besides to OP or are we just taking his word.

Seems crazy this would happen as a dev in the past even mentioned there is suppose to be no ICD on FS

I tested it and can post screens if you like.