Guild Wars 2

RyuDragnier.9476:

Aveneo.2068:

The Spiral King.2483:

http://pastebin.com/dmACCzwx

Let’s hope that CDI works. Otherwise, we may be in trouble.

According to Dulfy those notes are fake. The poster just took the currently known changes to make them look legit and made up the rest.

Not just dulfy, Anet personally stated those notes were fake, something they have never done before now. Meaning it’s most likely fake.

Man…People must really hate Ranger and want this thread locked and trashed? Can we get on topic with things that actually concern Ranger Balance, and not stuff that is obviously fake?

(on a side note, and partially on topic….. Ranger CDI should be started tomorow!)

looking forward tomorrow’s CDI

Chrispy.5641:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Aveneo.2068:

The Spiral King.2483:

http://pastebin.com/dmACCzwx

Let’s hope that CDI works. Otherwise, we may be in trouble.

According to Dulfy those notes are fake. The poster just took the currently known changes to make them look legit and made up the rest.

Not just dulfy, Anet personally stated those notes were fake, something they have never done before now. Meaning it’s most likely fake.

Man…People must really hate Ranger and want this thread locked and trashed? Can we get on topic with things that actually concern Ranger Balance, and not stuff that is obviously fake?

(on a side note, and partially on topic….. Ranger CDI should be started tomorow!)

Just putting out there that while this is not quite the first time on one of the first few Ready Ups they discuss that anything data mined is not in it’s final finished form and was subject to change up to the complete deletion of that content. I think the can of worm there would be anything not previously posted making it way into the fully developed patch.

But that is neither here, nor there at this point this thread has gotten too large and with probably not be review much at all. We will have to see if/when the CDI thread is stated what we can expect.

Chrispy.5641:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Aveneo.2068:

The Spiral King.2483:

http://pastebin.com/dmACCzwx

Let’s hope that CDI works. Otherwise, we may be in trouble.

According to Dulfy those notes are fake. The poster just took the currently known changes to make them look legit and made up the rest.

Not just dulfy, Anet personally stated those notes were fake, something they have never done before now. Meaning it’s most likely fake.

Man…People must really hate Ranger and want this thread locked and trashed? Can we get on topic with things that actually concern Ranger Balance, and not stuff that is obviously fake?

(on a side note, and partially on topic….. Ranger CDI should be started tomorow!)

lol the only other thing to talk about that hasn’t been said elevnty billion times already is taking bets as to whether the CDI will happen on Monday or get pushed back again.

Alright, so I’m going to be making a bullet point list of overview type topics that can be taken away from this thread to be discussed on the CDI, as well as giving an overall progress report for this thread for people wondering what has and has not been discussed.

Feel free to let me know anything that I miss, and remember that my list has no intention of including specific changes, but only serves to let people know the root or general ideas of what has been discussed.

List:

• Efficiency of pets
• 1-Handed Sword performance improvement in areas such as player control
• Efficiency of the Beastmastery Trait line
• Efficiency of traits in the Skirmishing Line for Power based builds
• Minimal ability to build pet for non-DPS roles
• Burst options over the current sustain damage philosophy
• Limited condi removal options
• No boon removal/punishment options
• Lack of AoE options outside of traps
• Heavy trait investment requirements for useful utility options
• Retooling of weapons to match intended roles better
• Reworking of pets to a different class mechanic
• Reworking of spirits to be pet auras or other non-killable or different style support ideas
• Merging of similar traits that exist in a merged state on other classes
• Numerous trait rework concepts and ideas
• Shortbow attack range increase through traits
• Shortbow retooling to make weapon more efficient with potential risk/reward increase
  
  This is all I have right now as a quick overview, and let’s not forget the OP that I wrote up that coincides with any number of other topics and these topics.

jcbroe.4329:

• 1-Handed Sword performance improvement in areas such as player control

We really need confirmation from Anet on the state of this. We know they have been poking around (or so they say) with it for a few months now and the announcement that they figured out how to force pets to override animations makes me think they may have solved the problem or at least figured out what they need to do to fix it.

It’d just be a waste to harp (and harp we will) on something that may already be fixed or in the process of getting fixed.

I think it was a Prysin post that made a lot of sense. Before everyone here starts writing walls of text giving their opinion on what needs changing we should be asking Anet what their “current” vision of the class is. How they think the class should perform. Once we have that, then we can tell them where they fall short.

Logically that is the best and most common sense way of doing it.

Detharos.3157:

The big pet changes I’m going to be gunning hardest for in this upcoming CDI discussion are massive improvements in attack accuracy. The first two are the primary changes I want to see.

“10 second cooldown Long-range distance closer skill added to all melee pets.” (Anti-kiting utility, just as any melee character has to have to succeed in this game.) Ie. a charge covering approximately the same range as the greatsword 3 swoop skill.

“200 unit range pounce/teleport effect added to the auto attack on melee pets to include a that pulls them into the closest range of the enemy character model center” (This while functioning as a partial distance closer is mainly to help quell the “Stop to attack at maximum range” issue that make the pets so susceptible to side-steps. You shouldn’t be able to dodge so many pet attacks just by means of holding down your a,d keys for half a second.) This attack would effectively pull them straight into absolute point blank range before their auto attack goes off, rather than having them auto attack from the maximum possible range.

I will hammering for BOTH to be added, not one or the other. Because again, they each answer to different issues. The first one enables pets to deal with the kiting eles, mesmers, (ironically rangers), bow spam warriors and other challenges they face where distance creator skills are frequently used in the same way any melee build character has skills to counter these. This is NOT overpowering them, it’s simply equipping them with the tools to do a job they are unfairly expected to accomplish at the current time.

The auto-attack pounce is because I perceive there will probably be some technical issues cited defending a potential inability to “make pets able to move and attack simultaneously”. If this is technically unfeasible with the animations system/massive AI overhaul that takes months… then this can be added in as little as one month and function as a reach around to enable melee pets to effectively land more hits.

The two others I want to see happen:

Cleaving effect added to ALL melee pets. I know some rangers are going to whine about this making the drake seem less special, but this is one of the effects that play a key role in making pets already highly telegraphed and predictable attacks less vulnerable to players mindlessly smash a,d keys while auto attacking. Other classes get a lot of mileage out of their auto attacks, in time we got ours. Since our pet plays a roll in that, it needs to contribute much more than it currently does.

Massive increase in projectile speed of all ranged pet’s attacks. These skills already have a very highly telegraphed build up, medium-slow projectile speed is simply unfeasible.

*Please note that I’d still like to see pets/pet to ranger damage ratios as an optional, rather than a forced decision if possible. These are merely suggestions to make pets viable and contribute the damage that they are already expected to contribute but fail to do so due to mechanical issues. *

I’ve criticized a lot of other ideas as OP and I think these are a tad strong, but I really hope the devs read this because those are some really good ideas.

I would like to add the Short Bow to the list. It used to be pretty balanced, since launch this weapon has gotten the short end of the stick multiple times in favor of animation fixes and to make the Longbow more viable (which was in my opinion still the worst reasoning in the history of this game.)

So what is its’ intended direction? Auto-attack spamming wasn’t “healthy” for the game, yet despite the nerfs the weapon still promotes just that. Except now it is also under-powered.

@ jcbroe: I take it that list is in no particular order of importance?

Shortbow is aggrivating since the weapon is so similar to Axe IMO. Wish the shortbow had a burst skill or another condition to use.

Since we’re Hunters, would be nice to see more Torments that can be applied on anyone who tries to escape.

Torment would indeed be a welcome addition to the shortbow or the axe skill set.

Could also give birdies the option to deal torment damage from pecking on the head of people :P (hey getting hit on the head by angry birds pecks is actualy uber tormenting)

Substance E.4852:

jcbroe.4329:

• 1-Handed Sword performance improvement in areas such as player control

We really need confirmation from Anet on the state of this. We know they have been poking around (or so they say) with it for a few months now and the announcement that they figured out how to force pets to override animations makes me think they may have solved the problem or at least figured out what they need to do to fix it.

It’d just be a waste to harp (and harp we will) on something that may already be fixed or in the process of getting fixed.

Absolutely, but I would also argue, even though it hasn’t been explicitly discussed, that the initial delay on sword 2 due the animation and the after cast of sword 3 in which you are vulnerable to damage but still stuck in animation are also issues, which have been mentioned to me specifically in private.

I was hoping that the particular bullet might spark that discussion, but I guess I’ll be the first person to bring it up as well hahaha.

But I definitely agree, and I believe it coincides with this next statement:

Forzani.2584:

I think it was a Prysin post that made a lot of sense. Before everyone here starts writing walls of text giving their opinion on what needs changing we should be asking Anet what their “current” vision of the class is. How they think the class should perform. Once we have that, then we can tell them where they fall short.

Logically that is the best and most common sense way of doing it.

This. Absolutely this. I have been wanting ANet to do not only this, but also do write ups like they previously did in Guild Wars 1 in the form of developer blogs which discussed why specific skills were getting changed and how the developers hope that it will effect combat as well as the current metagame.

I think that if the devs just came out and stated where they see the class, as well as stating anything they have already taken away from our prior discussions, then the CDI could actually make lots of progress where we don’t have to spend time speculating what the devs want the class to be and copy/pasting things we have already discussed to death for months+.

JorneMormel.9850:

I would like to add the Short Bow to the list. It used to be pretty balanced, since launch this weapon has gotten the short end of the stick multiple times in favor of animation fixes and to make the Longbow more viable (which was in my opinion still the worst reasoning in the history of this game.)

So what is its’ intended direction? Auto-attack spamming wasn’t “healthy” for the game, yet despite the nerfs the weapon still promotes just that. Except now it is also under-powered.

@ jcbroe: I take it that list is in no particular order of importance?

No, it isn’t in any particular order, it was just things I could think of and scan through and see.

I will add shortbow to the list, but I believe that at this moment the (verbal) ranger community is very split on what to do with the weapon. I think that we all want to see a 1200 range shortbow option reintegrated into the game, and I think that the most common suggestion is to add it to the functionality of Eagle Eye.

But as far as how the weapon actually performs go, the 2 schools of thought are that the weapon needs to retooled so that the autoattack isn’t the best DPS option (I personally think this, but I think it needs to be a global balance change across all weapons in the game that are offenders) and make cooldown skills more powerful to use, in line with a risk/reward philosophy.

The other school of thought saying that the shortbow is fine as is, but then the inner debate for this circle is whether or not the weapon should be able to be increased to 1200 range.

At least, those are the general ways that I see it.

Overall, I just hope that pointing this out inspires more discussion for the shortbow, because it is something I actually have a very strong opinion about (as I do every other weapon in the game that favors autoattacking for damage output) and I think it would be a very valid discussion to have.

But definitely adding it to the list

I would personally just like some clarity from the developers about their vision of the Short Bow, what they have intended for it and what niche it is supposed to fill. This would help clarify what kind of traits are supposed to complement it and in what areas it could use some tweaking.

From my own point of view, I considered it to be in a pretty good place at launch (power-wise) but the mechanics were implemented poorly with any action other than auto-attack resulting in a DPS loss.

What I would like to see is the weapon either being the go-to weapon for bow users if they want to do condition damage, or being a more skirmishing type of weapon with a focus on interrupts, in which case the auto-attack being strongest skill would not be much of an issue.

The condition for bleeds to trigger hampers the condition damage archetype and the cool-down on Concussion Shot makes interrupting not very viable to rely upon.

Either way, more information about the intention of this weapon would add much for promoting a healthy discussion. At this point I do not mind any course of action taken for this weapon, as long as there is action taken.

All I want for SB is the removal of the positional requirement for SB1

Soooo when is this thing going to start?

Just for the records: Y’know, if someone has a gift of “Eagle Eye”, that would give precision, not longer range. Longer range depends on “inner-calculations” from the part of user.

I imagine SB as a ninja-skirmisher kind of weapon for close-mid range, its best if used “dancing around” your foe who can’t touch you, but will bleed out shortly.
But I will not use SB in PVE after I’ve crafted an Ascended Azureflame…
And if I “can’t” even hit the fort targets (means headshot with error), how would an SB range help… But basicly, there is no real bow designed to shoot under ~65 meters.

I would really really like to see reduced cast time on Signet of the wild, Would really really help us navigate the snare laden landscape of WvW

Waiting for the CDI to make any sort of mention to any known issues from threads like this. Otherwise, I don’t see the value in taking information that’s already here and reformatting it for that thread, especially when Allie already said this thread is being watched by the development team.

If all they wanted was a thread of convenient suggestions, there was no real reason to hide it and call it a “collaborative development.” Something that clearly isn’t the case until they actually begin to *collaborate" with us.

So, in the meantime, I’d say keep posting in this thread too, since the devs are also watching this thread, and make sure that anything you like from here ends up in the CDI. You know, if you like repeating yourself and exercising your ability to copy and paste, and all that jazz.

bump bump bump bump bump

Yeah….after reading the CDI thread, its just plain out of control, and I would prefer the company of a seasick crocodile over trying to post my ideas in that mess….but I will anyways, as well as posting my ideas here, incase anyone wants to read them and discuss them, because in the other thread, they are very likely to get lost in a sea of other suggestions before you get the chance.

Changing Healing Skills and Elite Skills for more synergy

• The Purpose of this idea(proposal) is to make Healing Skills benefit more from traits, like the healing skills of other professions do. Our healing skills are some of the best in the game, yes, but, the inability to make them stronger through traits actually makes them weaker than other healing skills in the long run.

Changes and Benefits
- Heal as One and Rampage as One should be changed into Shout skills, so they can benefit from the following ::

• Shout Mastery - Reduce Cooldown. (make skills faster to access)
• Nature’s Voice - Regen and Swiftness. (makes skills less selfish and Ranger/Pet only)
• Superior Rune of the Soldier - Shouts remove a Condition. (More chances for condition removal, which the Ranger badly needs anyways)

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

- Troll Unguent should be changed into a Survival Skill, so it benefits from this ::

• Wilderness Knowledge - Reduced Cooldown. (Faster Access and more healing uptime)

Risks

• There is a possibility that healing skills would be too dependent on trait investment.
• After investing into traits, skills could be too powerful and unbalanced.

Discussion

• I had the idea for the ‘As One and healing spring skills, because those are the two skill types they most closely match. While shouts aren’t exactly in the best spot right now because of how pets work, I think those changes would go a long way.
• For Troll Unguent, I figured that making it a Wilderness survival skill made the most sense, but, its up for debate if anyone’s willing.

• This also ties directly into a future idea I will be posting that involves expanding the Wilderness Survival traits and Shout traits we have access to, to atleast 3 of each, (I will link this post since the two are related)

+1 to those suggestions. For the longest time I’ve wondered why Heal as One and Rampage as One weren’t Shouts. As for Troll Unguent as a Survival skill, that seems to only make sense. Lastly, on Healing Spring, maybe instead of having more boon duration on the Regen from Trap Potency it could remove 2 conditions instead of 1 condition every 2 seconds since there’s already a trait that allows for +33% Regen duration applied by the Ranger?

Edit: Also, bumping so this thread doesn’t get lost in the 2nd page.

Chrispy, you’re “Change and Benefits” suggestions just make sense… almost, “Why isn’t this in the game already?!” type sense. Good post..

Take into consideration that if you attach a skill type to them, Anet must balance it with that. So either it will be pathetic without a CD reduction or OP with a shorter CD. It’s not a win-win situation.

Dalanor.5387:

Take into consideration that if you attach a skill type to them, Anet must balance it with that. So either it will be pathetic without a CD reduction or OP with a shorter CD. It’s not a win-win situation.

Well, my suggestion aside, that’s probably what makes our heals so good compared to other professions. We don’t have to rely on traits to make them stronger. They are already strong.

(I have a bunch of healing skill calculations on this thread :: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Healing-Skill-calculations-Updated-again/3364759)

Then again, other profession heals are already strong too. Warriors can heal for 400 hp per second with healing signet, with no additional investment into any traits or healing power. Our Troll Unguent Skill doesn’t match that healing until we get close to 2000 healing power.

I don’t think Healing Signet is too strong, rather, I think its about where all healing skills should be at 0 healing power.

I think it would be better for the overall game if all healing skills can get close to and surpass that hp average per second, either by default or through trait investment. (Troll Unguent with a 20% reduction in cooldown would heal for an average of 405 hp per second, spread across 20 seconds, with no additional healing power.)

(Yeah, I also think that other profession heals like Healing surge should be buffed to match that number, or be able to get buffed through traits as well.)

Chrispy.5641:

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

I don’t know how you want this to get working since traps still need an enemy to trigger them.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Chrispy.5641:

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

I don’t know how you want this to get working since traps still need an enemy to trigger them.

Same way that the Guild Wars 1 Healing Spring worked. It triggered automatically when you used it (enemies have nothing to do with it), but it was counted as a trap so it would benefit from trap related skills like Trapper’s Speed and Trapper’s Focus. (Not that it was a particularly amazing overpowered skill combination because healing spring was actually kind of weak in that game…, it was still there)

Healing Spring also makes the most sense to benefit from Trap related traits, such as the larger effect radius from Trapper’s Expertise.

Chrispy.5641:

Yeah….after reading the CDI thread, its just plain out of control, and I would prefer the company of a seasick crocodile over trying to post my ideas in that mess….but I will anyways, as well as posting my ideas here, incase anyone wants to read them and discuss them, because in the other thread, they are very likely to get lost in a sea of other suggestions before you get the chance.

Changing Healing Skills and Elite Skills for more synergy

• The Purpose of this idea(proposal) is to make Healing Skills benefit more from traits, like the healing skills of other professions do. Our healing skills are some of the best in the game, yes, but, the inability to make them stronger through traits actually makes them weaker than other healing skills in the long run.

Changes and Benefits
- Heal as One and Rampage as One should be changed into Shout skills, so they can benefit from the following ::

• Shout Mastery - Reduce Cooldown. (make skills faster to access)
• Nature’s Voice - Regen and Swiftness. (makes skills less selfish and Ranger/Pet only)
• Superior Rune of the Soldier - Shouts remove a Condition. (More chances for condition removal, which the Ranger badly needs anyways)

- Healing Spring should be changed into a Trap Skill, so it benefits from the Follwoing ::

• Trapper’s Expertise - Ground targeting and increased Radius. (Ability to affect a greater number of allies.)
• Trap Potency - decreased Cooldown. (Make skill faster to access)(increased condition duration would not affect this obviously, maybe increase boon duration as well?)

- Troll Unguent should be changed into a Survival Skill, so it benefits from this ::

• Wilderness Knowledge - Reduced Cooldown. (Faster Access and more healing uptime)

Risks

• There is a possibility that healing skills would be too dependent on trait investment.
• After investing into traits, skills could be too powerful and unbalanced.

Discussion

• I had the idea for the ‘As One and healing spring skills, because those are the two skill types they most closely match. While shouts aren’t exactly in the best spot right now because of how pets work, I think those changes would go a long way.
• For Troll Unguent, I figured that making it a Wilderness survival skill made the most sense, but, its up for debate if anyone’s willing.

• This also ties directly into a future idea I will be posting that involves expanding the Wilderness Survival traits and Shout traits we have access to, to atleast 3 of each, (I will link this post since the two are related)

I +1’d these. I think they are extremely good changes that promote trait synergy, and in some cases, actually make you reconsider what the “best in slot” option would be for certain trait slots (10 points in WS for instance).

There is only 1 particular combination I would be weary of, and that would be Heal as One with 30 points in Nature’s Magic, Nature’s Bounty, Nature’s Voice, and 10 points in Beastmastery for Shout Mastery. That would give permanent regen on Heal as One without any runes.

Not that I would complain about being able to run this, and it isn’t like we can’t already do that with Guard, but it seems like this combination really has the potential to outshine the other heals.

Of course, to the best of my knowledge, rangers wouldn’t be the only class capable of achieving this, and I still +1’d because I like all of the suggestions still, I was just bringing this to attention lol.

Since the CDI thread isn’t the best place to gather feedback, I’ll repost a suggestion of mine:

The Ranger and his additional pet

Pets need to assist their master by performing desired functions at a level of effectiveness that recognized the limits of the current AI. An AI will never be as good as a normal player. Therefore its very risky to entrust the pet with core mechanics such as beeing a huge part of the overall damage output.

The Ranger should be the principle damage-dealer as a base-line (having the damage potential previously expected of their companions restored to them). This keeps damage potential properly linked to gear selection and provides better parity with other classes.

The pet’s main purpose would be providing utility (healing, cleansing, CC, etc.). Traits can further develop the companion’s role or convert them into a second, lesser DPS threat, but the Ranger is never forced to rely on AI for damage.

Pet skills need to be sufficiently strong to offset their limitations. For example, players seek to position themselves to affect multiple targets. Pet can’t do this, so their skills might hit a 360 degree arc and/or have a greater radius to make up for the weakness in placement.

According to these proposals, the pet will be still usefull and hasn’t to be replaced, since all the aspects the pet provides are additions, which are nice to have but not mandatory in order to be competitive.

If you have questions or suggestions for improvements, feel free to post them.

I will just drop these here to not mess up the topic with a wall of text. I hope somebody finds something useful tought from a non-ranger. And don’t give up guys!

Post #1
Post #2

Don’t take everything on Shouts, there are SURVIVAL kind too.

It’s done… CDI closed.
I hope we get a second round after they’ve discussed a bit.

I think the intent is to put it on pause, not shut it down.

Yeah, I agree, the wording suggests it’s just on pause while they catch up on it and discuss internally.
Hopefully they will come back with some meaning direction afterwards.

The original poster makes some great points here. This was linked to me recently and I think it deserves another look from people who can do something about it.

Well I thought I had typed up a reply to bump this after the CDI, but I got some sort of crazy error, so here it goes again:

With the Ranger CDI coming to a close, I feel that quite a few of the issues we discussed in this topic previously were addressed or acknowledged in some way through the CDI. Even though I believe that the CDI could have been handled differently so that more in-depth discussion would have occurred, or even some philosophical discussions regarding the future direction of the ranger class, I think that the CDI was an overall positive because, for the most part, rangers and players are now on the same page about issues.

However, I would like to know what everybody else thinks. Was there anything in this topic that wasn’t addressed in the CDI at all, even in a general manner?

I think that the F2 responsiveness and additional source of condition removal are big stepping stones for the class in the upcoming patch, but that ranger power builds will still lack boon removal on their power builds to make them the best in slot option compared to classes like mesmers (shatter) or thieves (sleight of hand) who can both perform very similar roles to how the ranger power build would perform as a team role, but rangers don’t bring the same type of tools that provide that level of support as a team role, which overall makes the power builds less desirable than other classes on a team comp. That is mainly a PvP perspective however, so there is another side to it, I’m sure.

So, what do you guys think?

I also think that the F2 responsiveness and additional source of condition removal are big stepping stones for the class in the upcoming patch, but that Power build are still going to be lacking.
Not so sure that boon removal is the solution, in a close future… reorganising the traits would be the main first step, imho….

But, well, it’s going to be some time before we see whatever they took from CDI really implemented in game.

My main impression, after CDI, is that they have no clear concept/design of the ranger, appart from it being “the pet class”. (by the fact that it moved from the original “archer” definition towards a “skirmisher” definition that unfortunately does not really fit in the current Meta…)(and is further highlighted by the variety and lack of focus of players suggestions)

I am on a “wait and see” point.
What needed to be said has been said, hopefully, they will get a more encompassing vision of the ranger, eventually

It will be dissapointing. Once they will rise the ranger if they are out of ideas to shake up the game.

Jocksy.3415:

I also think that the F2 responsiveness and additional source of condition removal are big stepping stones for the class in the upcoming patch, but that Power build are still going to be lacking.
Not so sure that boon removal is the solution, in a close future… reorganising the traits would be the main first step, imho….

But, well, it’s going to be some time before we see whatever they took from CDI really implemented in game.

My main impression, after CDI, is that they have no clear concept/design of the ranger, appart from it being “the pet class”. (by the fact that it moved from the original “archer” definition towards a “skirmisher” definition that unfortunately does not really fit in the current Meta…)(and is further highlighted by the variety and lack of focus of players suggestions)

I am on a “wait and see” point.
What needed to be said has been said, hopefully, they will get a more encompassing vision of the ranger, eventually

Well, when I keep bringing up the boon removal, what I mean to address by it is more of just an observation that I’ve made directly from watching competitive teams play PvP matches against each other using the same builds for the last year+ (yay stagnant balance lol).

Basically, there are 3 classes that consistently go “zerker,” or build as the high direct damage option: Warriors, Thieves, and Mesmers. Warriors are chosen because they are tanky even in zerkers gear in PvP, and ranger power builds don’t really have a way to compete with this “role.” Thieves and Mesmers however, are both played as roaming duelists of sorts, jumping into team fights to provide some quick, high value damage, and then continue to support the fight their or roam elsewhere.

Now, rangers would play very similarly to this, so much so that ranger power builds would end up competing with one, or both, of these classes for a team slot. So, what do the mesmers and thieves do that rangers don’t provided, excluding their class mechanics? They both provide boon removal, which is a huge part of offensive team support, and better/easier to land burst damage than the ranger, and the burst damage that rangers can provide them makes them much less able to escape, or “hop” back out of a fight than mesmers and thieves.

Rangers don’t really need any more “escape-ability” though. So what that leaves them needing to compete in is offense team support and damage output. Now, ANet during the CDI as much as said that the ranger isn’t meant to be a high burst damage class, but rather, a sustained damage class, while also saying that the damage output isn’t at an agreeable spot right now. So in the future, at a balance equilibrium, rangers will have the capability to focus down a target in a team fight with high enough sustained damage that it shouldn’t make a difference in the burst class versus sustained class unless you truly need instantaneous damage.

That leaves just offensive team support, and right now, all rangers have is Muddy Terrain, as an AoE immobilize/Soft CC. And I guess revealed on Sic’ Em too, but that has such a niche role that mentioning it doesn’t seem worthwhile. Boon Removal is just my suggested way of putting rangers on par with other classes offensive team support options, and then letting numbers get tweaked as the game gets balanced.

But I’m sure there are other ways to accomplish finding a competitive team role for rangers!

They should change some useless traits, for example:

Beatmastery: Instictual bond (5 points): When you’re downed, your pet gains quickness… (rly?)

Beatmastery: (5 points) – (10 points): You move 25% faster if…
… you’re in a -600 range of your pet.
… your pet is alive.
… your pet is over 33%(or another %) HP.
… be creative, anet.

(Signet of the hunt severely limits the builds).

I only really have any interest in playing a power build with a longbow and I feel it’s this area that ANet repeatedly misses the mark. I don’t feel we discussed this area enough for the class in the CDI thread. I don’t feel the trait changes impact power builds at all. And I don’t feel the issues for power play are limited to pet issues or the lack or AE/burst (though these are certainly top 3).

The area this class needs the most improvement in is group utility. And not just group utility, but something valuable on a large scale that is currently missing in WvW. While boon removal as Jcbroe mentioned would certainly help, it would have to be on a rather large scale to allow the Ranger to be noticed at an organized GvG level.

I’m simply not convinced number crunching and trait adjustments is going to be enough for this class if the goal is for it to ever be worth more than 8th place in WvW. Burst, AE, and more damage will certainly make it more viable as a class, and it’s most definitely needed.

But the lack of WvW worth in a group setting was completely missed in the CDI thread and no changes we’ve seen past, present, or future have shown any real improvement in this area.

I totally agree that some boon stripping ability would be wonderful (and could be made as replacement of consolidated traits). Would also maybe give us more of a point in larger groups.

But I don’t see it in the big ranger picture… we bring things, but don’t take.
Something that has an effect according to the number of boons our foes have would be more in line, imho, for example, an increase in control durations according to the number of boons the ennemy have, an increase in power, or things like that…
This is my opinion, though… punshing the ennemy for having boons, without making the ranger a “taker”.

Not sure I’m clear… I personnaly love the boon removal idea, would be great in bus, but doesn’t seem to fit, conceptually…

Edit:
I do not have the impression the lack of WvW worth have been missed… Been mentionned quite a few times, but there’s no easy way out…

Jocksy.3415:

I totally agree that some boon stripping ability would be wonderful (and could be made as replacement of consolidated traits). Would also maybe give us more of a point in larger groups.

But I don’t see it in the big ranger picture… we bring things, but don’t take.
Something that has an effect according to the number of boons our foes have would be more in line, imho, for example, an increase in control durations according to the number of boons the ennemy have, an increase in power, or things like that…
This is my opinion, though… punshing the ennemy for having boons, without making the ranger a “taker”.

Not sure I’m clear… I personnaly love the boon removal idea, would be great in bus, but doesn’t seem to fit, conceptually…

Edit:
I do not have the impression the lack of WvW worth have been missed… Been mentionned quite a few times, but there’s no easy way out…

No you’re spot on. It makes me think of something similar to Warrior’s Destruction of the Empowered trait. It would definitely be worthwhile, and it is the other option I would love to see. Boon punishment, in short.

Atherakhia.4086:

I only really have any interest in playing a power build with a longbow and I feel it’s this area that ANet repeatedly misses the mark. I don’t feel we discussed this area enough for the class in the CDI thread. I don’t feel the trait changes impact power builds at all. And I don’t feel the issues for power play are limited to pet issues or the lack or AE/burst (though these are certainly top 3).

The area this class needs the most improvement in is group utility. And not just group utility, but something valuable on a large scale that is currently missing in WvW. While boon removal as Jcbroe mentioned would certainly help, it would have to be on a rather large scale to allow the Ranger to be noticed at an organized GvG level.

I’m simply not convinced number crunching and trait adjustments is going to be enough for this class if the goal is for it to ever be worth more than 8th place in WvW. Burst, AE, and more damage will certainly make it more viable as a class, and it’s most definitely needed.

But the lack of WvW worth in a group setting was completely missed in the CDI thread and no changes we’ve seen past, present, or future have shown any real improvement in this area.

I totally understand. I still think the breaking point for power builds right now is the Skirmishing traitline. It has the perfect stat combination for power builds, but most of its traits lend themselves to beastmasters or conditions, and overall, it ends up be one of the least useful traitlines for power builds, even with its stats.

It’s a huge problem, and needs immediate changing, and I think that it would be the best way to help power builds from that aspect.

The other aspect you’re right about is that we didn’t discuss essentially what rangers bring to the table in WvW. Right now, the game I can honestly say that outside of a few very specific niche builds that revolve around small groups, if you pug as a ranger, I don’t feel that there is a very clearly defined “okay, I can do this in this situation, and that in that situation.”

It’s like you just and go “okay, uhh, my traps tickle, my spirits die, my pet is clunky and is making no immediately visible impact, my survival skills are selfish while helpful outside of Muddy Terrain, and my signets all burn out too quickly for me to use them for anything other than lolburst while somebody isn’t looking. Oh, and my weapon skills are all single target mostly, and I don’t contribute much in the way of providing group boons.”

How about this for boon stripping:

Shatter shot: Your point blank shot becomes unblockable and removes Retailation and Protection. ICD 30 sec.

nagymbear.5280:

How about this for boon stripping:

Shatter shot: Your point blank shot becomes unblockable and removes Retailation and Protection. ICD 30 sec.

somehow, i think traps would be better for boon stripping… ya know, pulsing field, AOE…
Maybe put it on frost trap? it would make it worth taking, even with the long CD, if it stripped boons.

As for LB – increase coefficiency of Rapid Fire and Barrage by 0.2 and Point Blank Shot by 0.7 and it should be good. Then we got proper burst(s)

Prysin.8542:

nagymbear.5280:

How about this for boon stripping:

Shatter shot: Your point blank shot becomes unblockable and removes Retailation and Protection. ICD 30 sec.

somehow, i think traps would be better for boon stripping… ya know, pulsing field, AOE…
Maybe put it on frost trap? it would make it worth taking, even with the long CD, if it stripped boons.

As for LB – increase coefficiency of Rapid Fire and Barrage by 0.2 and Point Blank Shot by 0.7 and it should be good. Then we got proper burst(s)

That wouldn’t be burst. Remember that .2 increase is spread out over the entire duration and not per shot. It would still barely peak what max range shot does and still leave the only value for the skill that of its vulnerability and to provide higher damage at shorter ranges.

Hunters shot would also need much more of an improvement if it were to do damage equal to auto attack. Let alone burst.

If your goal is to simply not suffer a DPS loss from casting these abilities, that’s one thing. But to actually provide a DPS increase, would require much more.

Atherakhia.4086:

Prysin.8542:

nagymbear.5280:

How about this for boon stripping:

Shatter shot: Your point blank shot becomes unblockable and removes Retailation and Protection. ICD 30 sec.

somehow, i think traps would be better for boon stripping… ya know, pulsing field, AOE…
Maybe put it on frost trap? it would make it worth taking, even with the long CD, if it stripped boons.

As for LB – increase coefficiency of Rapid Fire and Barrage by 0.2 and Point Blank Shot by 0.7 and it should be good. Then we got proper burst(s)

That wouldn’t be burst. Remember that .2 increase is spread out over the entire duration and not per shot. It would still barely peak what max range shot does and still leave the only value for the skill that of its vulnerability and to provide higher damage at shorter ranges.

Hunters shot would also need much more of an improvement if it were to do damage equal to auto attack. Let alone burst.

If your goal is to simply not suffer a DPS loss from casting these abilities, that’s one thing. But to actually provide a DPS increase, would require much more.

per shot ofc. Same applies to barrage.
The coefficiency pr shot/volley is abysmal as is.

EDIT: I dont mind the lack of AE, if the AE we got would strike fear in our enemies (other then making them think our side has an AC)

Prysin.8542:

EDIT: I dont mind the lack of AE, if the AE we got would strike fear in our enemies (other then making them think our side has an AC)

Lol…
The number of times I tell my bus that “it’s just a ranger”…

Jocksy.3415:

Prysin.8542:

EDIT: I dont mind the lack of AE, if the AE we got would strike fear in our enemies (other then making them think our side has an AC)

Lol…
The number of times I tell my bus that “it’s just a ranger”…

I die a little inside every time I watch the ticks I take from a meteor shower vs the 3 digit crits I get from Barrage.

While boon ripping probably should be in Skirmishing – at least from my point of view – I would enjoy Poison Master being replaced with something like ‘Remove x boons when applying Poison to a foe. x seconds cooldown.’ The increased Poison damage is rather uninspired.