Guild Wars 2

100th post yeey.

And yes, for the 1000x time, remove / fix wall stacking and other shananigans.

PvE would get actual respect that way.

Flumek.9043:

100th post yeey.

And yes, for the 1000x time, remove / fix wall stacking and other shananigans.

PvE would get actual respect that way.

This guy is right! Yes please anet fix the symptoms of our boredom! Please don’t touch the causes though, we love being bored anyway

To be fair i dont even think new dungeons will solve my boredom. We need new weapons for that.

Satisfy your inner scientist and contribute.

pmnt.4067:

maha.7902:

What part of ‘this skill does quadruple the DPS of anything else’ sounds balanced? What elite in the game is even on a level close to that?

Glad you asked. Let’s use the wiki and compare the base damage. Equal buffs (food, might) will multiply these values equally

The Fiery Rush line ticks 80 damage, lasts 3 seconds, and consists of 12 patches. Multiplying these numbers gives 2880 damage.

The Bear Form Charge hits multiple times for 609 damage, but the wiki doesn’t say how often it hits. If it hits at least 5 times, it actually outdamages Fiery Rush. Most movement skills hit bosses 4 times, but I personally haven’t tried Charge yet. I’d call that “close to” fgs.

Bonus: 100b+Whirlwind Attack deals 3066 damage on the same cooldown as Fiery Rush (these CDs can be reduced by traits). That’s also “close to” fgs.

As you see, all FGS really does is provide warrior-esque DPS for the ele and a second player (oh, now I see why FGS should be nerfed). So stop claiming that it does quadruple damage of anything else in the game.

Since you don’t seem to know much about warrior DPS or how FGS works here is some information to consider

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs

Let’s put this into precise perspective.

1. The FGS will produce a coefficient total of 43 over 12.15 seconds. A greatsword warrior with a walled target using perfect rotations produces a coefficient total of 42 every 30 seconds. So at the most basic level, a warrior with FGS will be producing about 2.5x the DPS of a warrior using a normal weapon.

2. There are classes that do significantly more DPS with an FGS than a warrior. A GS warrior with FGS will do roughly 29k dps over that 12.15 second period. A fairly normal 66xxx ele will do nearly 39k dps over that same time frame. So YMMV when carrying an FGS.

3. Based on the ongoing DPS research by Dekeyz published here http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ we can see that when not using FGS, a well built meta team comp will put out 55-65k dps. Consider that one ele carrying FGS can put out nearly 40k dps by himself, and 2 two eles distrubuting a total of 4x FGSes to the team can make a total team dps of around 150k. A elite skill that is capable of increasing DPS by such a significant factor is clearly imbalanced.

4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is so far above the “next best” elite that it’s quite literally in a league of it’s own.

But my argument against the current state of FGS#4 isn’t that it’s “boring” or that I suck at the game, or I’m worried about losing records to FGS or whatever other excuses have been offered by others or for me. The problem is simply put the skill is so strong that it dominates the PvE meta and makes a minimum of 2 Ele’s obligatory in anything calling itself a “speed run.” If people want more options, more class diversity and, yes, more interesting boss fights FGS as it currently stands has to go. If you don’t care about those things that’s your right, but objectively speaking it is by far the most powerful thing you can do in PvE.

Anet fixed Ursan-way in GW1, and I would argue that there is no dispute that FGS is just as omnipresent and oppressive as Ursanway ever was. If you don’t remember Ursanway, lucky you.

spoj.9672:

To be fair i dont even think new dungeons will solve my boredom. We need new weapons for that.

There are thread wanting SAB to come back. The combat is so simple that I dont think new weapons will solve it. I guess people want better encounters with reasonable health.

I want new weapons because they will make classes feel fresh. Thats the only reason. Everything is old as kitten and boring. And no matter what content you are playing you are still using the same weapons and skills you have been since release. Its dull. Weapons are the only thing which makes a class feel different (e.g. gs warrior feels vastly different to hammer).

Tree.3916:

Since you don’t seem to know much about warrior DPS or how FGS works here is some information to consider

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs

Let’s put this into precise perspective.

1. The FGS will produce a coefficient total of 43 over 12.15 seconds. A greatsword warrior with a walled target using perfect rotations produces a coefficient total of 42 every 30 seconds. So at the most basic level, a warrior with FGS will be producing about 2.5x the DPS of a warrior using a normal weapon.

2. There are classes that do significantly more DPS with an FGS than a warrior. A GS warrior with FGS will do roughly 29k dps over that 12.15 second period. A fairly normal 66xxx ele will do nearly 39k dps over that same time frame. So YMMV when carrying an FGS.

3. Based on the ongoing DPS research by Dekeyz published here http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ we can see that when not using FGS, a well built meta team comp will put out 55-65k dps. Consider that one ele carrying FGS can put out nearly 40k dps by himself, and 2 two eles distrubuting a total of 4x FGSes to the team can make a total team dps of around 150k. A elite skill that is capable of increasing DPS by such a significant factor is clearly imbalanced.

4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is so far above the “next best” elite that it’s quite literally in a league of it’s own.

But my argument against the current state of FGS#4 isn’t that it’s “boring” or that I suck at the game, or I’m worried about losing records to FGS or whatever other excuses have been offered by others or for me. The problem is simply put the skill is so strong that it dominates the PvE meta and makes a minimum of 2 Ele’s obligatory in anything calling itself a “speed run.” If people want more options, more class diversity and, yes, more interesting boss fights FGS as it currently stands has to go. If you don’t care about those things that’s your right, but objectively speaking it is by far the most powerful thing you can do in PvE.

Anet fixed Ursan-way in GW1, and I would argue that there is no dispute that FGS is just as omnipresent and oppressive as Ursanway ever was. If you don’t remember Ursanway, lucky you.

A theory backed by numbers but how would you comment the recent fractal tournament where teams that had 2 eles didn’t even pass the 1st round? Semifinals had 3 eles and at the same time 6 guardians and 6 warriors. Don’t you find that slightly odd? Maybe, just maybe, if the content is a bit less trivial than old dungeons, fgs will become less popular and you can go back to more interesting metas.

Well, that’s a big difference because the teams chosed a 2 warrior / 2 guard setup to complete a fast and safe run.
A party with 2 elementalists will be faster,though if everything is going well.
Swamp,Ascalon,Cliffside,Molten,dredge are all fractals were FGS is very powerfull – yes you can FGS Ashym as well.

kozmo.8760:

Tree.3916:

Since you don’t seem to know much about warrior DPS or how FGS works here is some information to consider

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs

Let’s put this into precise perspective.

1. The FGS will produce a coefficient total of 43 over 12.15 seconds. A greatsword warrior with a walled target using perfect rotations produces a coefficient total of 42 every 30 seconds. So at the most basic level, a warrior with FGS will be producing about 2.5x the DPS of a warrior using a normal weapon.

2. There are classes that do significantly more DPS with an FGS than a warrior. A GS warrior with FGS will do roughly 29k dps over that 12.15 second period. A fairly normal 66xxx ele will do nearly 39k dps over that same time frame. So YMMV when carrying an FGS.

3. Based on the ongoing DPS research by Dekeyz published here http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ we can see that when not using FGS, a well built meta team comp will put out 55-65k dps. Consider that one ele carrying FGS can put out nearly 40k dps by himself, and 2 two eles distrubuting a total of 4x FGSes to the team can make a total team dps of around 150k. A elite skill that is capable of increasing DPS by such a significant factor is clearly imbalanced.

4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is so far above the “next best” elite that it’s quite literally in a league of it’s own.

But my argument against the current state of FGS#4 isn’t that it’s “boring” or that I suck at the game, or I’m worried about losing records to FGS or whatever other excuses have been offered by others or for me. The problem is simply put the skill is so strong that it dominates the PvE meta and makes a minimum of 2 Ele’s obligatory in anything calling itself a “speed run.” If people want more options, more class diversity and, yes, more interesting boss fights FGS as it currently stands has to go. If you don’t care about those things that’s your right, but objectively speaking it is by far the most powerful thing you can do in PvE.

Anet fixed Ursan-way in GW1, and I would argue that there is no dispute that FGS is just as omnipresent and oppressive as Ursanway ever was. If you don’t remember Ursanway, lucky you.

A theory backed by numbers but how would you comment the recent fractal tournament where teams that had 2 eles didn’t even pass the 1st round? Semifinals had 3 eles and at the same time 6 guardians and 6 warriors. Don’t you find that slightly odd? Maybe, just maybe, if the content is a bit less trivial than old dungeons, fgs will become less popular and you can go back to more interesting metas.

If I may, at that stage we have a different issue. Indeed, fractals are a definitive step towards seeing FGS not quite be as effective as the earlier trivial dungeons.

But the fact that FGS exists as it is now, adds an unnecessarily balancing variable to PvE balance that A-Net cannot ignore. Any instance where an encounter has the boss against the wall for a period of time, will have FGS be optimized and used. Thus, rather than looking at the FGS as a measurement for judging an encounter it becomes an obstacle towards future PvE development.

kozmo.8760:

Tree.3916:

Since you don’t seem to know much about warrior DPS or how FGS works here is some information to consider

http://dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs

Let’s put this into precise perspective.

1. The FGS will produce a coefficient total of 43 over 12.15 seconds. A greatsword warrior with a walled target using perfect rotations produces a coefficient total of 42 every 30 seconds. So at the most basic level, a warrior with FGS will be producing about 2.5x the DPS of a warrior using a normal weapon.

2. There are classes that do significantly more DPS with an FGS than a warrior. A GS warrior with FGS will do roughly 29k dps over that 12.15 second period. A fairly normal 66xxx ele will do nearly 39k dps over that same time frame. So YMMV when carrying an FGS.

3. Based on the ongoing DPS research by Dekeyz published here http://gw2dps.david-reess.de/ we can see that when not using FGS, a well built meta team comp will put out 55-65k dps. Consider that one ele carrying FGS can put out nearly 40k dps by himself, and 2 two eles distrubuting a total of 4x FGSes to the team can make a total team dps of around 150k. A elite skill that is capable of increasing DPS by such a significant factor is clearly imbalanced.

4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is so far above the “next best” elite that it’s quite literally in a league of it’s own.

But my argument against the current state of FGS#4 isn’t that it’s “boring” or that I suck at the game, or I’m worried about losing records to FGS or whatever other excuses have been offered by others or for me. The problem is simply put the skill is so strong that it dominates the PvE meta and makes a minimum of 2 Ele’s obligatory in anything calling itself a “speed run.” If people want more options, more class diversity and, yes, more interesting boss fights FGS as it currently stands has to go. If you don’t care about those things that’s your right, but objectively speaking it is by far the most powerful thing you can do in PvE.

Anet fixed Ursan-way in GW1, and I would argue that there is no dispute that FGS is just as omnipresent and oppressive as Ursanway ever was. If you don’t remember Ursanway, lucky you.

A theory backed by numbers but how would you comment the recent fractal tournament where teams that had 2 eles didn’t even pass the 1st round? Semifinals had 3 eles and at the same time 6 guardians and 6 warriors. Don’t you find that slightly odd? Maybe, just maybe, if the content is a bit less trivial than old dungeons, fgs will become less popular and you can go back to more interesting metas.

And how does that negate the need for change? The exploit still exists…

Tree.3916:

—
4. If we consider Time Warp the measuring stick for an elite, it makes total team dps go from 65k dps to 97.5k dps for 10 seconds. We can say, very roughly speaking, that Time Warp is worth about 325k total damage. A single cast of FGS (assuming someone reasonable picks up the other FGS) is worth about 550k total damage. Time Warp has a 240 second cool down, FGS 180. I understand internal balance vs external balance but nonetheless the value of FGS is —

I know you are just estimating stuff but quickness rarely gives a 50% DPS increase because it doesn’t affect cooldowns. Without any calculations I would say it’s about 40% DPS increase.

All I see is warriors asking to go back to a meta where they were considered the best. They want their toys back!

Would that meta really be more interesting? I doubt it. It won’t change strats. Fights will just take more time.

But yeah sure, DnT asked for it, DnT made some theorycraft for the hypothetical future when conjures would be gone, let’s have it the DnT way, it sounds fantastic!

I’m pretty sure the same people cried when Anet announced the ferocity nerf, you know, the nerf that was made to make dungeons take longer

Better ask for things like this than to ask for interesting gameplay. You got it guys! -.-

I thought plan was to get meta engineer.

dominik.9721:

Well, that’s a big difference because the teams chosed a 2 warrior / 2 guard setup to complete a fast and safe run.
A party with 2 elementalists will be faster,though if everything is going well.
Swamp,Ascalon,Cliffside,Molten,dredge are all fractals were FGS is very powerfull – yes you can FGS Ashym as well.

On average people make mistakes (they are not machines) and safer approach yields better results. Despite that obvious exploit and 4 times as much dps as other professions, teams utilizing FGS the most couldn’t beat teams that went for a safer approach. You can throw numbers all day but it’s practice not theory that matters in the end. If dps is averaged damage over arbitrary amount of time then we should also use averaged time completion which judging by the recent tournament skews into favour of playing safer.

Sykper.6583:

If I may, at that stage we have a different issue. Indeed, fractals are a definitive step towards seeing FGS not quite be as effective as the earlier trivial dungeons.

But the fact that FGS exists as it is now, adds an unnecessarily balancing variable to PvE balance that A-Net cannot ignore. Any instance where an encounter has the boss against the wall for a period of time, will have FGS be optimized and used. Thus, rather than looking at the FGS as a measurement for judging an encounter it becomes an obstacle towards future PvE development.

It is a different issue (reward/risk balance ratio when using certain professions like guardians and warriors) but it actually has even more impact of time completion when the content isn’t trivial.

Atherakhia.4086:

And how does that negate the need for change? The exploit still exists…

If you change the content to less trivial (or make new one that will be more popular) FGS “exploit” will lose popularity because of lost effectiveness.

Flumek.9043:

100th post yeey.

And yes, for the 1000x time, remove / fix wall stacking and other shananigans.

PvE would get actual respect that way.

Anet don’t listen to this people, FIX PvP first!

spoj.9672:

I want new weapons because they will make classes feel fresh. Thats the only reason. Everything is old as kitten and boring. And no matter what content you are playing you are still using the same weapons and skills you have been since release. Its dull. Weapons are the only thing which makes a class feel different (e.g. gs warrior feels vastly different to hammer).

Well, I hope that anet will add encounter that will reward a hammer rather than a gs.

the problem is not the skill itself, nor the stacking, its the poorly implemented AI.

AI is as simple as line of sight rush to player, go through skill rotation, rinse, repeat.

If AI was told to move out of aoe, to block aoe, evade it, dodge out of it, you wouldn’t be able to stack, ever.

Sure anet could hot fix it and make it unusable, or to make it unable to cast if there are no targets, but obviously they don’t want to.

So yeah, you can say FGS is broken, stacking is big issue, but the root of the problem is actually really poorly and lazily designed AI.

spoj.9672:

I want new weapons because they will make classes feel fresh. Thats the only reason. Everything is old as kitten and boring. And no matter what content you are playing you are still using the same weapons and skills you have been since release. Its dull. Weapons are the only thing which makes a class feel different (e.g. gs warrior feels vastly different to hammer).

Well for pve, if the new weapons don’t do a lot of dps then no one won’t use it. So what is the point?

Aza.2105:

spoj.9672:

I want new weapons because they will make classes feel fresh. Thats the only reason. Everything is old as kitten and boring. And no matter what content you are playing you are still using the same weapons and skills you have been since release. Its dull. Weapons are the only thing which makes a class feel different (e.g. gs warrior feels vastly different to hammer).

Well for pve, if the new weapons don’t do a lot of dps then no one won’t use it. So what is the point?

Because DPS isn’t the only thing you look for in PvE, because daggers where said to deal low damage for elementalists until some people came up with a very strong build for them, and because in rT we do what ever we want

To be honest, I don’t know if this skill really should be nerfed.

The thing is, it only works if something’s dumb enough to stay in all 60+ ticks and eat all that damage.

Just create encounters and AI that don’t sit in all that damage. Nerfing FGS is just a lame workaround. If anything, a skill like FGS should exist as a deterrent for the devs from creating encounters and AI that allow themselves to be abused in such a manner.

Haha I really like Neko’s idea of dullness test

If you want to remove gamebreaking concepts from the game, let start by removing that which enables people to skip content altogether: Party Stealth.

No amount of DSP can be faster than just running past the enemies. In several dungeons, Arah and CM to mention where most crimes are commited, more than half the dungeon can be skipped by stealth.

What is most dull, most stupid, most broken? Skipping foes and game mechanics by running past them, or a 180s elite skill that increase damage in two party members?

And when we fix stealth in dungeons, when will the uttery broken mesmer portals be blocked from jumping puzzles. Skipping content is the definition of gamebreaking.

Oh wow its been a while since ive seen the skipping and stealth exploit card.

Logically speaking, it’s the same card anti fgs crowd throw. Stealth trivializes skipping even more than fgs trivializes combat.

kozmo.8760:

Logically speaking, it’s the same card anti fgs crowd throw. Stealth trivializes skipping even more than fgs trivializes combat.

But also logically speaking, what is the point of stealth other than to do exactly that? Where FGS is the only elite that feels truly elite such that it feels out of balance with the rest of the abilities in the game. War Banner is good, but it’s no where near a properly utilized FGS. (speaking only towards PVE here).

Maybe removing aggro from teammates in danger. What’s the point of fgs then? Just mobility?

kozmo.8760:

Maybe removing aggro from teammates in danger. What’s the point of fgs then? Just mobility?

Except they fixed it so stealth doesnt reset aggro. I like the logic of game mechanics only being allowed in PvP btw.

Guide to trivialize aspects of the game:

There is a long path with no doors -> Get a thief and mass stealth
There is a boss with only range attacks -> Get a guardian to reflect
There is a boss next to a wall with non-instant kill aoe -> Get a elementalist to use FGS
There is a glitchy environment -> Get a Mesmer to use portal

Honorably mentioning goes to phalanx warrior for perma 25 party stacks of might, trivialize any skills that provide might. I would very much like to see user Tree above calculate the effect of 25 might stacks on 5 players vs the effect of two fgs under a 30s fight.

What Anet should do is to get rangers, engineers and necromancers their own gamebreaking mechanic, so every profession has one function which will trivialize a part of the game. Necromancers can negate fall damage, but its not very useful in dungeons so far.

spoj.9672:

Except they fixed it so stealth doesnt reset aggro. I like the logic of game mechanics only being allowed in PvP btw.

Still removes aggro while being in stealth. Furthermore, we got a new trait in shadow arts iirc which decreases damage by 50% while being in stealth, which sounds like a stealth should be used for a defensive purpose.

@maha

maha.7902:

Warrior-esque DPS ahahahaha.

Watch the rT 7.2s Lupicus kill, divide his hp (1,450,000) by the time spent, you’ll get 201,388.889. Divide by the number of party members and you get 40,277. So stick on max buffs and you can output a DPS of 40,277 with fiery greatsword on a heavy armour target. Now do it on medium and light armour targets – you’ll do like 60,000 DPS.

Compare this to a 30/25/0/0/15 warrior which has a DPS of 12,214.

I watched that clip and your analysis is so wrong I find it hard to believe you meant it seriously.

kozmo.8760:

Maybe removing aggro from teammates in danger. What’s the point of fgs then? Just mobility?

No, but I don’t think we need to go as far as to remove rush completely, I just feel it’s valid to question whether the damage it is capable of is acceptable or not. Maybe just have it not drop a FGS just give the user a FGS, that cuts the additional DPS it gives in half. I think there is a large difference between where it is currently and where it wouldn’t be a worthwhile skill to use is all. I’m not sure if I even necessarily want a change, I just think a discussion is warranted due to the extreme power. I do think Bear/Leopard Form also need to be discussed though.

Belorn.2659:

Guide to trivialize aspects of the game:

There is a long path with no doors -> Get a thief and mass stealth
There is a boss with only range attacks -> Get a guardian to reflect
There is a boss next to a wall with non-instant kill aoe -> Get a elementalist to use FGS
There is a glitchy environment -> Get a Mesmer to use portal

Honorably mentioning goes to phalanx warrior for perma 25 party stacks of might, trivialize any skills that provide might. I would very much like to see user Tree above calculate the effect of 25 might stacks on 5 players vs the effect of two fgs under a 30s fight.

What Anet should do is to get rangers, engineers and necromancers their own gamebreaking mechanic, so every profession has one function which will trivialize a part of the game. Necromancers can negate fall damage, but its not very useful in dungeons so far.

Stealth : Veil, Mass Invis, Bomb Kit 4 blasting, and Whisper/Ash Legion kits.
Projectile Defense: Feedback, Wardens, Temporal Curtain, Swirling Winds, Smoke Screen, Ranger offhand Axe, Engi Turrets
Rushes: FGS & Norn Elites
Portals: Mesmer or Watchwork Portals

Of course not all of them are as good, but there are some very viable alternatives. And don’t forget Engi Vuln Stacking, that’s their Phalanx Str equivalent I’d think.

The thing thats more concerning is why bosses are able to be pulled into to corners or knocked into corners. Making Bosses not just another mob in a dungeon and actually a boss (which in almost every MMO i’ve ever played this is the first that bosses are so easily manipulated) that controls how the fight goes. For example the Shadow of the dragon fight in the recent LS update, i enjoyed this fight much more than most because the boss controlled how the fight went, instead of your group. I’m an Ele and the real concern isn’t FGS but the stupidity of the bosses we fight.

In a certain way I agree. I know FGS4 is hardly the only element in PvE which is wanting, but individually looking at it, the skill description doesn’t even imply the use case.

Plus, look how awkward it is: Autotargetting off, not targetting an enemy, ideally blocking your path.

Does that sound like intended use to you? Doesn’t for me. Plus it heavily trivialized the other FGS skills and Elites the Ele might bring, why use them except to bridge downtime?

But, as always with movement skills, I’d globally change all movement skills to be like this:

• Require a target.
• Only fire if the target is actually in range.

FGS4 would still do the line thingy. In theory it can still be used that way, it’s just… tricky. Also, heavily buff the final hit, to make the direct hit worth something.

Without fgs nobody team up with eles. Fact

I can’t believe that:
1) This thread is going for 3 pages;
2) We have people from DnT and rT talking on it;
3) Considering point 1 and 2, you’re all still arguing about the kitten FGS.

The problem is not FGS – if you nerf the damage, people will switch to bear form, no one will bat an eye and you will get similar results. The problem is the extremely boring and easy dungeon/bosses mechanics. FGS is not game/ground/kittenwhatever breaking, FGS just makes the whole encounter faster, it’s not saving you from a certain death if you don’t kill the boss fast enough. Why’s the link of rT’s speedkill Lupi record (which is adowable btw)? You think that they can’t kill it just as good without FGS? It just wont be as fast. We need more champions like Mai Trin that have different mechanics if you want to reduce the focus on FGS, but for me personally FGS is absolutely fine and if you are not fine with it, you’re free to do your dungeons/fractals and speedclear records without it.

Wasn’t elementalist supposed to do massive damage in a single spell or did you guys already forget?:P

winterchillz.2564:

I can’t believe that:
1) This thread is going for 3 pages;
2) We have people from DnT and rT talking on it;
3) Considering point 1 and 2, you’re all still arguing about the kitten FGS.

The problem is not FGS – if you nerf the damage, people will switch to bear form, no one will bat an eye and you will get similar results. The problem is the extremely boring and easy dungeon/bosses mechanics. FGS is not game/ground/kittenwhatever breaking, FGS just makes the whole encounter faster, it’s not saving you from a certain death if you don’t kill the boss fast enough. Why’s the link of rT’s speedkill Lupi record (which is adowable btw)? You think that they can’t kill it just as good without FGS? It just wont be as fast. We need more champions like Mai Trin that have different mechanics if you want to reduce the focus on FGS, but for me personally FGS is absolutely fine and if you are not fine with it, you’re free to do your dungeons/fractals and speedclear records without it.

Solution: Nerf bear form too.

Wethospu.6437:

winterchillz.2564:

I can’t believe that:
1) This thread is going for 3 pages;
2) We have people from DnT and rT talking on it;
3) Considering point 1 and 2, you’re all still arguing about the kitten FGS.

The problem is not FGS – if you nerf the damage, people will switch to bear form, no one will bat an eye and you will get similar results. The problem is the extremely boring and easy dungeon/bosses mechanics. FGS is not game/ground/kittenwhatever breaking, FGS just makes the whole encounter faster, it’s not saving you from a certain death if you don’t kill the boss fast enough. Why’s the link of rT’s speedkill Lupi record (which is adowable btw)? You think that they can’t kill it just as good without FGS? It just wont be as fast. We need more champions like Mai Trin that have different mechanics if you want to reduce the focus on FGS, but for me personally FGS is absolutely fine and if you are not fine with it, you’re free to do your dungeons/fractals and speedclear records without it.

Solution: Nerf bear form too.

Lets leave people complain about it first.

…. who plays pve anyway? silly geese.

srsly the bosses are not entirely riveting to fight. dungeons are beautiful and have so much available as do fractals.. sadly the “hardcore” players always find the most mechanical, stale, boring and (granted) fastest methods to clear them. No time for enjoyment, its work. Go in, know the strict meta rules and patterns constructed by the community.. robot yourself along the confines of the droning meta routes and objectives.. rise, repeat.

I don’t like to mention outside games on this forum, and as I said I don’t believe it’s entirely the dev’s doing since they obviously put so much work and detail into their dungeons, but games like monster hunter or shadow of the collossus still hold the gold when in comes to fun boss battles. Or dark souls.. until you get to god status… and even then…

I’m amazed that wasn’t done already but :
- The fire trails damage do not stack with each other from a same cast of the skill

It should have been done like that from the start. The trail type skills already got semi random damage depending on the number of trail items intersected by the mob collision box, it shouldn’t be like that in the first place. Feel free to up the damage from the trail to compensate.

Even then, there’s advantage in getting the target stuck since it’ll stay in the fire longer. But it’ll not be such a huge difference.

Perhaps give the damage tick an ICD of 1 second. Or 1.5?

Chokolata.1870:

Perhaps give the damage tick an ICD of 1 second. Or 1.5?

Thats the very definition of overnerf.

Wethospu.6437:

Solution: Nerf bear form too.

Why dealing with symptoms, if they could instead fix the real flaws?

Ehhhhhh come on…. guys…. come on. If they nerf this skill, the meta will just go back to having one elly instead of 2-3, or why not, even 0 if they overnerf. Is it gonna relief your boredom? No. You’re still gonna solo dungeons because it’s more interesting and because you’re bored of 5manning them since they’re too easy.

It’s alright if nerfing it is all the rage now, I find it super boring to watch so I don’t mind. They might reduce the damage by a 80% for all I care, I’d still find my ranger much funnier than my elly… but nothing would change for her and for me. She’d still be stuck in a marginal role.
“Oh my god, look, this record run beat the previous record by 2 seconds, ohhh, look, they’re using 2 warr/1 mes/1 guard/1 thief! So exciting! I’ve never seen this teamcomp before! Oh my GAWD I’m so pumped!”
Eh? Eh? No.

To be fair… It’s just a stale game. Really. Let it be, let them do their own thing with LS, let the devs be. We won’t be getting content catered to 1% of the playerbase. There’s no point discussing anything as of now. Talking about cats and pizza is much funnier, and it isn’t filled with hate or people flinging kittens at each other.

@deSade
For me the issue is independent of all the other issues PvE has. I simply think that a single skill on a single of the conjured weapons should not be this strong compared to all the other skills on all conjured weapons.

ANet, plz buff LH, thx.