Guild Wars 2

Elementalists have been nerfed every patch, even though we were long ago effectively neutered.
Now ANet wants to further beat us down, forcing us to choose, in the words of Karl McLean, between “core” features. They don’t understand Eles, 50-60% of them play Rangers (who now press ‘2’ to win).
Only you can stop the continued persecution of elementalists. Make your dissatisfaction known.

As for me… I came back to this game after a year, and after about a week of playing I’m once again too frustrated to devote myself to continuing. There are so many easy fixes to the problems elementalists face, and nothing is ever done.

Conjures are absolutely useless.
Sceptre damage sustain is a joke.
Our elites are garbage.
I’m still upset about RtL!
Going with any build that doesn’t have the majority of trait points dumped into water and arcana is simply suicide.
Any skill that enters the meta is insta-nerfed.
Any strategy that enters the meta is immediately rendered impractical or ineffective.

What’s worse is that the community is still toxic towards eles because D/D builds are still in collective memory. You can get steamrolled by every class and nothing is apparently wrong with that, but as soon as you beat someone else as an elementalist you’re clearly overpowered.

Here are the best suggestions that I have seen, which, if implemented, would compel me to continue playing:

• Completely overhaul conjured weapons to function as a single skill where your weapon changes according to your attunement, with benefits to conjured weapons added to existing traits.
• Put Ride the Lightning back how it was.
• Make sceptre auto attack deal damage proportionate to the target’s maximum health.
• Give staff some actual potential to survive/escape melee (e.g. fire 4 also gives you fire shield; it’s a 2-handed weapon we have to have better defensive options).
• Fix Bolt to the Heart. We’re already so limited on damage potential, this change was really stupid.
• Reduce CDs on Evasive Arcana to be in-line with standard endurance recharge rates. When I gain enough endurance to dodge again, I want an effect based on my attunement. That’s the whole point of this kittening trait.
• Do NOT make Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement both GM traits. That is dumb.
• Give Swirling Winds back the ability to block siege shots… but only at a 33% chance.
• Retool the useless traits that nobody even considers anymore (Zephyr’s Speed, for example… doesn’t stack with swiftness, which is extremely easy to come by, so kitten that).
• Give elementalists a weapon-swap option so that we don’t have to physically open our inventories to change what we’re wielding. Lock it out in combat, so you can’t go from one weapon set to another in the middle of a fight as an ele, but can still swap to a staff if we are wanting to defend the walls in WvW.

Elementalists will take a cup of kindness yet, for Auld Lang Syne.

Thanks for that :*D

You’re welcome.

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images for and ele and the quality of life alone is out right a dream come true. If you can only see one trait at a time yes it will seem like a nerf but your not playing ele as a one trait class after the update (though ele IS a one trait class now before the update 5/3/15). Stop getting lost on the lose of one leaf when you have a full tree to work with.

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images for and ele and the quality of life alone is out right a dream come true. If you can only see one trait at a time yes it will seem like a nerf but your not playing ele as a one trait class after the update (though ele IS a one trait class now before the update 5/3/15). Stop getting lost on the lose of one leaf when you have a full tree to work with.

this.

FrownyClown.8402:

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images for and ele and the quality of life alone is out right a dream come true. If you can only see one trait at a time yes it will seem like a nerf but your not playing ele as a one trait class after the update (though ele IS a one trait class now before the update 5/3/15). Stop getting lost on the lose of one leaf when you have a full tree to work with.

this.

No.

I can do one word answers as well.

k

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images…

I´m not sure if you´ve realized how powerful EA is. The sustain and utility it brings is what made people specc into aracane, and people will keep doing it for the same reasons. To even get the same effective hp out of passive reduction like earth -20% trait you´d need to take generously estimating 7,5k damage every 15 seconds, never to mention other perks like perma vigor, might stacking from blasts, blinds etc.
Attunement cooldown is nice change, but it´s not the only thing that drove people into arcane line, not by a long shot. And same goes for water 15 trait, the insane effective hp can´t be replaced with anything.

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images for and ele and the quality of life alone is out right a dream come true. If you can only see one trait at a time yes it will seem like a nerf but your not playing ele as a one trait class after the update (though ele IS a one trait class now before the update 5/3/15). Stop getting lost on the lose of one leaf when you have a full tree to work with.

They really really don’t. In fact, eles are being nerfed the most of all the classes. Thing is, it won’t open up any build diversity. Arcana will still be the meta, just to get on of the two traits. Water will also be the meta. And most likely Earth aswell. Problem is, the “-20% damage from players close by” which people keep calling OP really isn’t. It may be for good for d/d but for anything that is out side the range due to the weapon they are using is being set up.

Thanks to this patch other classes don’t have chose between really important traits either..mesmer getting 2 core traits as baseline, thiefs getting the ability to chose Executioner and Panic Strike which is deadly in PvP/WvW against anything that doesn’t have much defensive capabilities..

To sum up, it won’t open up build diversity for basically most eles as people will still chose the same lines du to the other lines being too weak. Surviving will be a lot harder as the other classes are being buffed. Using the synergy between EA and EvAr is fun and takes some skill which seems like to be taken away..

Strang.8170:

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images…

I´m not sure if you´ve realized how powerful EA is. The sustain and utility it brings is what made people specc into aracane, and people will keep doing it for the same reasons. To even get the same effective hp out of passive reduction like earth -20% trait you´d need to take generously estimating 7,5k damage every 15 seconds, never to mention other perks like perma vigor, might stacking from blasts, blinds etc.
Attunement cooldown is nice change, but it´s not the only thing that drove people into arcane line, not by a long shot. And same goes for water 15 trait, the insane effective hp can´t be replaced with anything.

I am not sure if you understand that cost of AE (i guess you mean evasion not atument maybe if you mean attunement sry.) Endurance and giving up a chase to use this endurance for dmg mitigation and not just a heal or support effect. In shot most ele are ADDICTED to AE both of them in-fact to the point where they cant play a game with out it and there should be nothing in a game like GW2 that works or is that key to playing a class. There needs to be a real chose here and it needs to be painful to brake this addiction. So ele can be more then just a one trick pony and get out of the one build meta ele.

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

Added note to every one: Build diversity of ele right now is on the lines of being able to put 2 points where every you want the other 12 is ALWAYS in water and AR. At least after the update you do not need to go 6 into AR all the time.

Jski.6180:

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

I do very much understand how eles work, thank you very much. The thing is, that’s how eles were designed and at the same time they pay for that by being very squishy and having no real defensive mechanisms like steahlth, blocks, invulnerability just to name a few.
The one thing eles do have are boons and the ability make use of their dodges more than most classes. Also, why would I not use a valuebale trait? Not using EA is like shatter mesmers not using IP or create clones on dodge..it’s a core part of the build and so are EA and EvAr to some ele builds. This has nothing got to do with relying too much on these traits or being helpless without them..

Chris.5720:

Jski.6180:

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

I do very much understand how eles work, thank you very much. The thing is, that’s how eles were designed and at the same time they pay for that by being very squishy and having no real defensive mechanisms like steahlth, blocks, invulnerability just to name a few.
The one thing eles do have are boons and the ability make use of their dodges more than most classes. Also, why would I not use a valuebale trait? Not using EA is like shatter mesmers not using IP or create clones on dodge..it’s a core part of the build and so are EA and EvAr to some ele builds. This has nothing got to do with relying too much on these traits or being helpless without them..

Atuments swapping is like mesmer shatters and mesmers images on roll is like EA. Your confusing base tools for ways of flushing them out. Swapping is the ele class EA is a way to push the ability to swap. With the new “super class” you will be able to defined your self as an ele or a temples by going down the lines so AR line is to make you more of an ElE where the temples line makes you more of an temples BUT you are still an ele class becuse that is the base class. So even with out both AE and ele is still an ele and no other class is close to it you would just be more of an water ele fire ele air ele earth ele etc..

I’m not entirely sure what exactly you are talking about but whatever. My point is that all classes are getting traits as baseline that are defining the build they are being used in, hell, in certain cases they even make the build.

There has in no way been confirmed what Tempest is going to do. We will need to wait and see so specualting about what it may do say I am wrong is a bit weird but whatever..
Also, even though EA and EvAr are “soooooo OP” there are still loads of builds that don’t use the two traits. The builds that do use it are the ones that need to be tankier to survive against burst classes and have atleast some counter play.

Personally I just don’t see the reason the chose between two traits that synergize really well and buff the ele in the places were it’s needed for a limited time.

One can live without EvAr. Dodge less, dodge better. Though i do understand it is useful for might stacking/condiclear and synergises well with water/cantrips cele based builds in order to get high sustain and decent damage at the same time.

I think people got so used to godmode they dont even want to think a way out of it.

I just wish base attunement swap was 9s not 10. Anyway, i think i’ll live outside the arcana tree.

We’ll just have to relearn everything about the Ele.
Wouldn’t want the expansion to come and still we log on to spam the same buttons right?
Change is difficult but it could be fun.
No matter what happens, I’ll still love the Ele. Love is acceptance. Love is compromise.

I’ll add that although full arcana gives the Ele survival, it means Ele is pretty much locked into the traitline. It’s just wrong for us to be dismayed when we are asked to choose – like we have no other option (and indeed there are none).

Maybe Sword Ele will be a completely different playstyle. Maybe even the old D/D will get a boost in a different direction. Maybe Sword/Dagger Ele is going to rock. Who knows? Nuke everything Anet. Let us see your balancing skills.

At the current state of the gameplay one can’t live without E.A (both ones) and keep the d/d playstyle.
If they are going to be a choice, there need to be options. Otherwise its not a choice, its a nerf.
Options need to come from other traitlines.
Turn earth attune t2 minor into a blast finisher.
Give fire auras the “remove a condition when being hit” instead of might.
Make cleansing water a minor instead of aquatic benevolence.

Give options to eles to move out of arcana, don’t just make arcana bad.

Jski.6180:

I am not sure if you understand that cost of AE (i guess you mean evasion not atument maybe if you mean attunement sry.) Endurance and giving up a chase to use this endurance for dmg mitigation and not just a heal or support effect. In shot most ele are ADDICTED to AE both of them in-fact to the point where they cant play a game with out it and there should be nothing in a game like GW2 that works or is that key to playing a class. There needs to be a real chose here and it needs to be painful to brake this addiction. So ele can be more then just a one trick pony and get out of the one build meta ele.

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

Added note to every one: Build diversity of ele right now is on the lines of being able to put 2 points where every you want the other 12 is ALWAYS in water and AR. At least after the update you do not need to go 6 into AR all the time.

I’m not sure you understand the reason behind us dumping points into water and arcana, and selecting the traits that are on the chopping block. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are completely out of touch with it.

I want you to do an experiment for me, and you’ll see what I mean.

Go into PvP as an ele without any trait points in those lines (water/arcana). Tell me how many times you felt like the fight went anything but the following progression:

1. engage the opponent
2. die in 0.27 seconds

Without water, elementalists have no health.
Without arcana, elementalists have no sustain.

To make up for this we have to take traits that empower our existing features (i.e. making our dodges not only negate damage, but also heal us or damages the enemy; and switching weapons (i.e. attunements) not only gives us access to new abilities, but also grants us a boon). WITHOUT THESE TRAITS ELEMENTALISTS ARE AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE THAT WE AREN’T EVEN ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD.

We aren’t addicted to taking them, we have to take them in order to compete.

And if an elementalist kicks your kitten with this build it’s because, for over a year, there haven’t been other builds for us to use; they’ve all been nerfed. They have practised it to perfection, unlike your most recent patch-ranger.

Don’t nerf the core of our only viable build, buff other builds to make them viable!

Provost.6210:

Jski.6180:

I am not sure if you understand that cost of AE (i guess you mean evasion not atument maybe if you mean attunement sry.) Endurance and giving up a chase to use this endurance for dmg mitigation and not just a heal or support effect. In shot most ele are ADDICTED to AE both of them in-fact to the point where they cant play a game with out it and there should be nothing in a game like GW2 that works or is that key to playing a class. There needs to be a real chose here and it needs to be painful to brake this addiction. So ele can be more then just a one trick pony and get out of the one build meta ele.

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

Added note to every one: Build diversity of ele right now is on the lines of being able to put 2 points where every you want the other 12 is ALWAYS in water and AR. At least after the update you do not need to go 6 into AR all the time.

I’m not sure you understand the reason behind us dumping points into water and arcana, and selecting the traits that are on the chopping block. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are completely out of touch with it.

I want you to do an experiment for me, and you’ll see what I mean.

Go into PvP as an ele without any trait points in those lines (water/arcana). Tell me how many times you felt like the fight went anything but the following progression:

1. engage the opponent
2. die in 0.27 seconds

Without water, elementalists have no health.
Without arcana, elementalists have no sustain.

To make up for this we have to take traits that empower our existing features (i.e. making our dodges not only negate damage, but also heal us or damages the enemy; and switching weapons (i.e. attunements) not only gives us access to new abilities, but also grants us a boon). WITHOUT THESE TRAITS ELEMENTALISTS ARE AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE THAT WE AREN’T EVEN ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD.

We aren’t addicted to taking them, we have to take them in order to compete.

And if an elementalist kicks your kitten with this build it’s because, for over a year, there haven’t been other builds for us to use; they’ve all been nerfed. They have practised it to perfection, unlike your most recent patch-ranger.

Don’t nerf the core of our only viable build, buff other builds to make them viable!

if you think keeping ele’s locked to those traitlines is good for the game then I am glad you don’t work for anet

FrownyClown.8402:

Provost.6210:

Jski.6180:

I am not sure if you understand that cost of AE (i guess you mean evasion not atument maybe if you mean attunement sry.) Endurance and giving up a chase to use this endurance for dmg mitigation and not just a heal or support effect. In shot most ele are ADDICTED to AE both of them in-fact to the point where they cant play a game with out it and there should be nothing in a game like GW2 that works or is that key to playing a class. There needs to be a real chose here and it needs to be painful to brake this addiction. So ele can be more then just a one trick pony and get out of the one build meta ele.

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

Added note to every one: Build diversity of ele right now is on the lines of being able to put 2 points where every you want the other 12 is ALWAYS in water and AR. At least after the update you do not need to go 6 into AR all the time.

I’m not sure you understand the reason behind us dumping points into water and arcana, and selecting the traits that are on the chopping block. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are completely out of touch with it.

I want you to do an experiment for me, and you’ll see what I mean.

Go into PvP as an ele without any trait points in those lines (water/arcana). Tell me how many times you felt like the fight went anything but the following progression:

1. engage the opponent
2. die in 0.27 seconds

Without water, elementalists have no health.
Without arcana, elementalists have no sustain.

To make up for this we have to take traits that empower our existing features (i.e. making our dodges not only negate damage, but also heal us or damages the enemy; and switching weapons (i.e. attunements) not only gives us access to new abilities, but also grants us a boon). WITHOUT THESE TRAITS ELEMENTALISTS ARE AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE THAT WE AREN’T EVEN ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD.

We aren’t addicted to taking them, we have to take them in order to compete.

And if an elementalist kicks your kitten with this build it’s because, for over a year, there haven’t been other builds for us to use; they’ve all been nerfed. They have practised it to perfection, unlike your most recent patch-ranger.

Don’t nerf the core of our only viable build, buff other builds to make them viable!

if you think keeping ele’s locked to those traitlines is good for the game then I am glad you don’t work for anet

If you didn’t understand that I was arguing to improve other aspects of the class rather than nerf the ones everyone is forced to use, then I am glad you aren’t trusted to make informed decisions on important matters; you obviously can’t read.

Give me one example where they listened to elementalist-players feedback about the elementalist.

All they listen to is other classes complaining about the ele and then nerf us down.

You could buff the staff auto-attack projectile speed by 200% and it still wouldn’t be OP. What about water 1 auto-attack on staff, they sure made certain nobody would ever use that.

The problem isn’t arcana and water being overpowered trait lines, this argument makes no sense, people confuse efficiency with excess of power, there is no godmode on elementalist. Those trait lines are efficient because they have good synergy (both, internal and with each other), you don’t need to nerf arcana to force eles into something else, just make the other trait lines efficient as well, what if we had more synergy between fire and wind?… or fire and earth?… What if had traits whose efficiency were similar to elemental attunement + cleansing water or renewing stamina + soothing disruption + evasive arcana?

To be honest it isn’t even about losing one of the EAs, we can totally live with that, but the general way balancing is performed on our class is irritating…

The amount of QQ’ing is just simply hilarious. Here’s an idea. Maybe don’t take my word for it. But let’s ACTUALLY WAIT until the patch hits before crying about “nerfs”. You realize every profession’s reveal so far has gotten one extra F skill like mesmer f5, warrior f2…etc. Maybe we’ll actually get a weapon swap option or another attunement type. Just stop crying about stupid kitten. As I’ve said many times in other threads, I’ve been messing around with not using elemental attunement trait to stimulate what it would be like (even though we’re getting another full trait line….) and I have to say…I do just fine. I actually win 90-95% of my duels still as ZERKER ele. Sounds like a l2p issue to me if you can’t even simply wait for the patch to hit and adapt.

Lettuce.2945:

The amount of QQ’ing is just simply hilarious. Here’s an idea. Maybe don’t take my word for it. But let’s ACTUALLY WAIT until the patch hits before crying about “nerfs”. You realize every profession’s reveal so far has gotten one extra F skill like mesmer f5, warrior f2…etc. Maybe we’ll actually get a weapon swap option or another attunement type. Just stop crying about stupid kitten. As I’ve said many times in other threads, I’ve been messing around with not using elemental attunement trait to stimulate what it would be like (even though we’re getting another full trait line….) and I have to say…I do just fine. I actually win 90-95% of my duels still as ZERKER ele. Sounds like a l2p issue to me if you can’t even simply wait for the patch to hit and adapt.

That’s the worst logic ever. There are problems one can easily see with the trait choices they devs have made right now. There are significant nerfs to the current playstyles, current damage and survivability. Why “wait” for the patch when we can avert having to wait a few months for them to “fix” the stuff they broke by bringing it to their attention NOW. And your L2P argument is just stupid and doesn’t add anything to the discussion. Either put forward your build, your opponents, your information or don’t include that argument. Also, just because you win NOW means nothing due to the massive trait overhauals the lines will see that will make most current builds less powerful and less useful all the while increasing the power and utility of other classes builds. The trait powercreep is real in other classes, while we are regressing. And unless Tempest includes some massive mobility (it probably won’t due to not wanting to compete with thieves), massive damage (most likely won’t because it’s melee so will have to include blocks or damage reductions so we can just live) then yes. We will complain, we will put forth information on how the Karl McClain (spelling, sorry) is gimping the class with making certain things choices all the while ripping from the class necessary defenses and power boosts in the name of “build diversity” but just makes Arcana or Water more mandatory. This isn’t the first time this has happened, every time they try to make Arcana or Water less mandatory, it just ends up becoming more mandatory.

Xillllix.3485:

Give me one example where they listened to elementalist-players feedback about the elementalist.

All they listen to is other classes complaining about the ele and then nerf us down.

You could buff the staff auto-attack projectile speed by 200% and it still wouldn’t be OP. What about water 1 auto-attack on staff, they sure made certain nobody would ever use that.

But but but… it heals! /sarcasm

I would love other reasons to go into anything but Arcana, however with the proposed changes to traits, there IS no compelling reason to go anywhere else. The answer to removing the dependence of elementalists on Arcana and Water is not to make these terrible, but to make the other lines better.

I stand by making Elemental Attunement baseline as a solo trait with the GM being AoE and reworking traits that are easily overwritten like One with Air and Zephyrs Speed. If Air had a trait that did something like on crit gain a shield equal to a % of the damage done I would definitely think of speccing into Air. As it is now, with all the damage being ripped from Air, with Fresh Air becoming much weaker and really disliking the idea of getting hit as a burst ele to proc shocking aura… I think I’ll pass.

Also, since the instant damage is an issue, why not add a slight cast time to the lightning strike from Air Scepter 2 and making it cast from the player? Style Sorcerer Lightning Bolt from SW:TOR? Gives it a casting animation so that it can be dodged.

Provost.6210:

FrownyClown.8402:

Provost.6210:

Jski.6180:

I am not sure if you understand that cost of AE (i guess you mean evasion not atument maybe if you mean attunement sry.) Endurance and giving up a chase to use this endurance for dmg mitigation and not just a heal or support effect. In shot most ele are ADDICTED to AE both of them in-fact to the point where they cant play a game with out it and there should be nothing in a game like GW2 that works or is that key to playing a class. There needs to be a real chose here and it needs to be painful to brake this addiction. So ele can be more then just a one trick pony and get out of the one build meta ele.

@ Chris.5720

Its crazy that you do not seem to understand the ele class at all. Ele is a class who cant switch weapons so they make up for this with atuments swamping. By making atuments have a base line cd of 10sec is on the level of letting classes who can swap wepon have 1 to 2 more weapons sets at there use for swapping with out giving up countless build types.

Added note to every one: Build diversity of ele right now is on the lines of being able to put 2 points where every you want the other 12 is ALWAYS in water and AR. At least after the update you do not need to go 6 into AR all the time.

I’m not sure you understand the reason behind us dumping points into water and arcana, and selecting the traits that are on the chopping block. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are completely out of touch with it.

I want you to do an experiment for me, and you’ll see what I mean.

Go into PvP as an ele without any trait points in those lines (water/arcana). Tell me how many times you felt like the fight went anything but the following progression:

1. engage the opponent
2. die in 0.27 seconds

Without water, elementalists have no health.
Without arcana, elementalists have no sustain.

To make up for this we have to take traits that empower our existing features (i.e. making our dodges not only negate damage, but also heal us or damages the enemy; and switching weapons (i.e. attunements) not only gives us access to new abilities, but also grants us a boon). WITHOUT THESE TRAITS ELEMENTALISTS ARE AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE THAT WE AREN’T EVEN ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD.

We aren’t addicted to taking them, we have to take them in order to compete.

And if an elementalist kicks your kitten with this build it’s because, for over a year, there haven’t been other builds for us to use; they’ve all been nerfed. They have practised it to perfection, unlike your most recent patch-ranger.

Don’t nerf the core of our only viable build, buff other builds to make them viable!

if you think keeping ele’s locked to those traitlines is good for the game then I am glad you don’t work for anet

If you didn’t understand that I was arguing to improve other aspects of the class rather than nerf the ones everyone is forced to use, then I am glad you aren’t trusted to make informed decisions on important matters; you obviously can’t read.

they have. people seem to have this idea that d/d ele is impossible to play without both of those traits. Thats not true and they aren’t essential. they are just the preferred traits because they are the strongest ones for the build. Being able to invest fully into 3 traitlines will do more for ele then these traits ever did. Want to know why celestial ele is good in pvp? its high regen and protection uptime. You will get more than enough regen just investing in water. You also get more than enough -damage modifiers investing into earth. Now all you need is to invest in evasive arcana. boom.

FrownyClown.8402:

they have. people seem to have this idea that d/d ele is impossible to play without both of those traits. Thats not true and they aren’t essential. they are just the preferred traits because they are the strongest ones for the build. Being able to invest fully into 3 traitlines will do more for ele then these traits ever did. Want to know why celestial ele is good in pvp? its high regen and protection uptime. You will get more than enough regen just investing in water. You also get more than enough -damage modifiers investing into earth. Now all you need is to invest in evasive arcana. boom.

Honestly, I don’t really care about d/d, people crying about cele being nerfed should realize how OP it is atm but whatever.

The thing that converns me are all the other builds that aren’t d/d that don’t have as much defensive gameplay (auras, “high” mobility, knock downs) involved.
Staff for example. Sure there are builds that don’t need EA and EvAr, but from the WvW/PvP point of view, having these traits is the reason why they are viable. Sadly staff isn’t in the place it could be the competitive areas of the game as most other builds have more mobility and attacks that are not as stale/slow as staff.

So, the only reason I really care about EA/EvAr and them nerfing the only decent traitlines while keeping/nerfing the weaker traitlines ever further is because I enjoy playing staff and I really don’t want to see the staff spec being useless because synergy of EA/EvAr isn’t there anymore.
(If you don’t believe me, go full zerk staff eles and experience a full shatter on you. Even with the so OP protection you will hardly live that.)

/rant over

Chris.5720:

FrownyClown.8402:

they have. people seem to have this idea that d/d ele is impossible to play without both of those traits. Thats not true and they aren’t essential. they are just the preferred traits because they are the strongest ones for the build. Being able to invest fully into 3 traitlines will do more for ele then these traits ever did. Want to know why celestial ele is good in pvp? its high regen and protection uptime. You will get more than enough regen just investing in water. You also get more than enough -damage modifiers investing into earth. Now all you need is to invest in evasive arcana. boom.

Honestly, I don’t really care about d/d, people crying about cele being nerfed should realize how OP it is atm but whatever.

The thing that converns me are all the other builds that aren’t d/d that don’t have as much defensive gameplay (auras, “high” mobility, knock downs) involved.
Staff for example. Sure there are builds that don’t need EA and EvAr, but from the WvW/PvP point of view, having these traits is the reason why they are viable. Sadly staff isn’t in the place it could be the competitive areas of the game as most other builds have more mobility and attacks that are not as stale/slow as staff.

So, the only reason I really care about EA/EvAr and them nerfing the only decent traitlines while keeping/nerfing the weaker traitlines ever further is because I enjoy playing staff and I really don’t want to see the staff spec being useless because synergy of EA/EvAr isn’t there anymore.
(If you don’t believe me, go full zerk staff eles and experience a full shatter on you. Even with the so OP protection you will hardly live that.)

/rant over

Cele amulet really is the only amulet that makes ele competitive in PvP and not by choice, the lowest base stats( vitality and armor) among profession and complete lack of base defensive mechanics are the causes why cele is necessary to ele in PvP

Supreme.3164:

Cele amulet really is the only amulet that makes ele competitive in PvP and not by choice, the lowest base stats( vitality and armor) among profession and complete lack of base defensive mechanics are the causes why cele is necessary to ele in PvP

You can survive without cele aswell, you already have enough healing to play with a zerker amulet. It may take some time to get used it and it probably isn’t as faceroll as cele d/d.

Raif.9507:

Lettuce.2945:

The amount of QQ’ing is just simply hilarious. Here’s an idea. Maybe don’t take my word for it. But let’s ACTUALLY WAIT until the patch hits before crying about “nerfs”. You realize every profession’s reveal so far has gotten one extra F skill like mesmer f5, warrior f2…etc. Maybe we’ll actually get a weapon swap option or another attunement type. Just stop crying about stupid kitten. As I’ve said many times in other threads, I’ve been messing around with not using elemental attunement trait to stimulate what it would be like (even though we’re getting another full trait line….) and I have to say…I do just fine. I actually win 90-95% of my duels still as ZERKER ele. Sounds like a l2p issue to me if you can’t even simply wait for the patch to hit and adapt.

That’s the worst logic ever. There are problems one can easily see with the trait choices they devs have made right now. There are significant nerfs to the current playstyles, current damage and survivability. Why “wait” for the patch when we can avert having to wait a few months for them to “fix” the stuff they broke by bringing it to their attention NOW. And your L2P argument is just stupid and doesn’t add anything to the discussion. Either put forward your build, your opponents, your information or don’t include that argument. Also, just because you win NOW means nothing due to the massive trait overhauals the lines will see that will make most current builds less powerful and less useful all the while increasing the power and utility of other classes builds. The trait powercreep is real in other classes, while we are regressing. And unless Tempest includes some massive mobility (it probably won’t due to not wanting to compete with thieves), massive damage (most likely won’t because it’s melee so will have to include blocks or damage reductions so we can just live) then yes. We will complain, we will put forth information on how the Karl McClain (spelling, sorry) is gimping the class with making certain things choices all the while ripping from the class necessary defenses and power boosts in the name of “build diversity” but just makes Arcana or Water more mandatory. This isn’t the first time this has happened, every time they try to make Arcana or Water less mandatory, it just ends up becoming more mandatory.

Xillllix.3485:

Give me one example where they listened to elementalist-players feedback about the elementalist.

All they listen to is other classes complaining about the ele and then nerf us down.

You could buff the staff auto-attack projectile speed by 200% and it still wouldn’t be OP. What about water 1 auto-attack on staff, they sure made certain nobody would ever use that.

But but but… it heals! /sarcasm

I would love other reasons to go into anything but Arcana, however with the proposed changes to traits, there IS no compelling reason to go anywhere else. The answer to removing the dependence of elementalists on Arcana and Water is not to make these terrible, but to make the other lines better.

I stand by making Elemental Attunement baseline as a solo trait with the GM being AoE and reworking traits that are easily overwritten like One with Air and Zephyrs Speed. If Air had a trait that did something like on crit gain a shield equal to a % of the damage done I would definitely think of speccing into Air. As it is now, with all the damage being ripped from Air, with Fresh Air becoming much weaker and really disliking the idea of getting hit as a burst ele to proc shocking aura… I think I’ll pass.

Also, since the instant damage is an issue, why not add a slight cast time to the lightning strike from Air Scepter 2 and making it cast from the player? Style Sorcerer Lightning Bolt from SW:TOR? Gives it a casting animation so that it can be dodged.

Try actually dueling without elemental attunement on a zerker amulet running standard 00266. It really IS A L2P issue. As for your comment, “If i win now, it doesn’t change with patch”. Yes it does, I get way more tankier in patch. If you honestly can’t see that now, then ele really isn’t the class for you.

Raif.9507:

FrownyClown.8402:

Jski.6180:

Ele getting the biggest buff in the game out of all of the classes from the new trait system the 10 sec swap being a base line effect. It opens up every build that you could images for and ele and the quality of life alone is out right a dream come true. If you can only see one trait at a time yes it will seem like a nerf but your not playing ele as a one trait class after the update (though ele IS a one trait class now before the update 5/3/15). Stop getting lost on the lose of one leaf when you have a full tree to work with.

this.

No.

I can do one word answers as well.

Apparently not, actually…. XD

Lettuce.2945:

Try actually dueling without elemental attunement on a zerker amulet running standard 00266. It really IS A L2P issue. As for your comment, “If i win now, it doesn’t change with patch”. Yes it does, I get way more tankier in patch. If you honestly can’t see that now, then ele really isn’t the class for you.

I’ve been running without evasive arcana and EA for a long time. I haven’t specced 30 into Arcana since Fresh Air was introduced and I’ve been playing elementalist since the betas through high and low times. Right now (and for quite a while before) I’ve been using a Fresh Air/Fire/earth (sometimes getting 2 into Arcana for the perma vigor) build and Scepter Dagger for roaming in WvW. Your L2P arguments are empty, I have no hard times playing the class and do quite well.

For your retort of getting tankier? You also lose a large chunk of damage in return for getting tankier. That is the major problem with elementalist in PvP. There are no real viable burst builds, it’s tank up or go Cele D/D. Also, I;d suggest you learn to read a little better. What I said was “Even if you win now, it DOESN’T mean you’ll win after the patch”. There is major power creep while elementalist is staying the same or getting weaker as far as damage is concerned.

I do not care one bit for PvE, as far as I’m concerned everything is viable there. Everything I talk about is from a PvP/WvW perspective. And to be perfectly honest, dueling means little or nothing in roaming for WvW where stats are higher, damage is higher and the element of surprise and being outnumbered actually comes into play. In team PvP 1v1 means very little unless you’re bunkering on a point to hold it until you can get someone to help or attacking a different point to put pressure on it, something other classes will do better now (and have been doing better).

This incoming patch is introducing a lot of power creep for other classes and you cannot base balancing concerns on 1v1’s in the mists. With these changes we remain in the same relative spot, where the meta will demand a tank or Cele elementalist, and that is even questionable with shout bow warriors creeping slowly over the area that elemenalists are strong in. You do well in duels? Great. Show me a competitive high level zerker elementalist build that will last long enough to make an impact in team sPvP. Roaming in WvW is a numbers game, and who gets the drop, but even now a zerker elementalist who gets jumped by anyone is at an immediate disadvantage and versus other burst builds most likely won’t survive very long into that encounter. Besides bursting down targets who are unaware (or underleveled or just bad) most elementalist zerker builds are easy to kill once the burst is done, wasted or evaded.

tboneking.2531:

Apparently not, actually…. XD

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/932/537/71b.jpg

the only thing im sad for that ppl seem to have not noticed is we wont get the benefits from increased boon duration anymore.

FrownyClown.8402:

the only thing im sad for that ppl seem to have not noticed is we wont get the benefits from increased boon duration anymore.

Noticed, but there’s nothing we can do about it since it’s removed from the trait lines. I dearly hope that SOME of that loss will be baked into the elementalists stats, but i’m not optimistic.

Provost.6210:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Should old merriment be forgot,
and never thought upon;
The flames of love extinguished,
and fully past and gone.
Has thy sweet heart been crushed beneath,
ArenaNet’s bold heel;
That nevermore you’ll gain avail,
or from these insults heal?

For Auld Lang Syne, My Dear
For Auld Lang Syne
That nevermore you’ll gain avail,
For Auld Lang Syne

There was a time you stood among,
the other classes strong;
But now you’ve been nerfed to the ground,
how did it go so wrong;
Thy staff is cleft, thy rod is frail,
Thy traits to now be shot;
Though maimed you only suffer still,
And now to be kiboshed.

For Auld Lang Syne, My Dear
For Auld Lang Syne
Though maimed you only suffer still,
For Auld Lang Syne

Gone are the days you were fun to play,
you’re now a two-shot chump;
Jack-of-all-trades, master of none,
all others hold the trump;
Though versatile, you can’t sustain,
thy burst is but a fart,
Into the wind, thy future dreams,
Now take a bolt unto thy heart.

For Auld Lang Syne, My Dear
For Auld Lang Syne
Into the wind, thy future dreams,
For Auld Lang Syne

Elementalists have been nerfed every patch, even though we were long ago effectively neutered.
Now ANet wants to further beat us down, forcing us to choose, in the words of Karl McLean, between “core” features. They don’t understand Eles, 50-60% of them play Rangers (who now press ‘2’ to win).
Only you can stop the continued persecution of elementalists. Make your dissatisfaction known.

As for me… I came back to this game after a year, and after about a week of playing I’m once again too frustrated to devote myself to continuing. There are so many easy fixes to the problems elementalists face, and nothing is ever done.

Conjures are absolutely useless.
Sceptre damage sustain is a joke.
Our elites are garbage.
I’m still upset about RtL!
Going with any build that doesn’t have the majority of trait points dumped into water and arcana is simply suicide.
Any skill that enters the meta is insta-nerfed.
Any strategy that enters the meta is immediately rendered impractical or ineffective.

What’s worse is that the community is still toxic towards eles because D/D builds are still in collective memory. You can get steamrolled by every class and nothing is apparently wrong with that, but as soon as you beat someone else as an elementalist you’re clearly overpowered.

Here are the best suggestions that I have seen, which, if implemented, would compel me to continue playing:

• Completely overhaul conjured weapons to function as a single skill where your weapon changes according to your attunement, with benefits to conjured weapons added to existing traits.
• Put Ride the Lightning back how it was.
• Make sceptre auto attack deal damage proportionate to the target’s maximum health.
• Give staff some actual potential to survive/escape melee (e.g. fire 4 also gives you fire shield; it’s a 2-handed weapon we have to have better defensive options).
• Fix Bolt to the Heart. We’re already so limited on damage potential, this change was really stupid.
• Reduce CDs on Evasive Arcana to be in-line with standard endurance recharge rates. When I gain enough endurance to dodge again, I want an effect based on my attunement. That’s the whole point of this kittening trait.
• Do NOT make Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement both GM traits. That is dumb.
• Give Swirling Winds back the ability to block siege shots… but only at a 33% chance.
• Retool the useless traits that nobody even considers anymore (Zephyr’s Speed, for example… doesn’t stack with swiftness, which is extremely easy to come by, so kitten that).
• Give elementalists a weapon-swap option so that we don’t have to physically open our inventories to change what we’re wielding. Lock it out in combat, so you can’t go from one weapon set to another in the middle of a fight as an ele, but can still swap to a staff if we are wanting to defend the walls in WvW.

Elementalists will take a cup of kindness yet, for Auld Lang Syne.

This is not just directed at eles btw…HoT will target pretty much every class.

Provost.6210:

They don’t understand Eles, 50-60% of them play Rangers (who now press ‘2’ to win).

…Not sure if troll thread.

You people seem to be forgetting that the specialisation change will change just about everything. You get three spec lines, not two and ‘a bit’, so it makes sense that each line shouldn’t be as strong as it is now.

Javi.4359:

Provost.6210:

They don’t understand Eles, 50-60% of them play Rangers (who now press ‘2’ to win).

…Not sure if troll thread.

You people seem to be forgetting that the specialisation change will change just about everything. You get three spec lines, not two and ‘a bit’, so it makes sense that each line shouldn’t be as strong as it is now.

Hahahaha yeah sure..just look at basically every class except ele and maybe necro. Even though we do get 3 full lines, classes like thiefs or mesmers are getting huge buffs so saying that all lines should be weaker is not a valid arguement if it doesn’t apply for 6 out of 8 classes..

If you watch the video where they announce the epic Evasive Arcana/Elemental Attunement nerf it’s like they know it’s a terrible idea but decided to go with it anyway.

Xillllix.3485:

If you watch the video where they announce the epic Evasive Arcana/Elemental Attunement nerf it’s like they know it’s a terrible idea but decided to go with it anyway.

It’s because they don’t understand what it does to the class. They are TRYING to lessen the need for Arcane, but are just doing the opposite. They just don’t know how to balance the ele without making it either super weak or super powerful.

Or at least it’s what I’m telling myself.

Raif.9507:

Xillllix.3485:

If you watch the video where they announce the epic Evasive Arcana/Elemental Attunement nerf it’s like they know it’s a terrible idea but decided to go with it anyway.

It’s because they don’t understand what it does to the class. They are TRYING to lessen the need for Arcane, but are just doing the opposite. They just don’t know how to balance the ele without making it either super weak or super powerful.

Or at least it’s what I’m telling myself.

This.

They need to devote time to really playing the class, instead of just listening to other classes gripe about it.

They’re relegating the class to backline support when it’s supposed to be — in their own admission — a high dps striking/bursting class.

Guess what, you can’t do high dps without the ability to sustain if you have the lowest health and weakest armour. If you get rid of the sustain, you can’t have dps because you’ll die in two hits.