Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

My main is a thief but i like to play DD ele too, but im still learning to play it. I would like to know from you how the next patch will affect the DD ele’s game. How the critical damage nerf affect the game?

The only thing I can say now is that with the nerf of critical build condition build will gain in power. Because the nerf is general and not just for a single class …

IMO, d/d ele will be hit very hard by this patch. Celestial gear, which is popular with d/d eles is losing a ton of its damage output from the crit damage nerf. Boon duration is in jeopardy because the popular 2/2/2 rune spread for 45% boon duration will no longer be viable and so far the only known option for boon duration runes only gives a 15% bonus maximum. You will be cut out of the sigil buff because you only have 2 sigil slots and you cannot keep your bloodlust stacks after unequipping your dagger with the bloodlust sigil on it. Expect your damage output to be smaller.
Originally, I was looking forward to this patch, but after seeing all of the nerfs to d/d ele, I don’t think I could dread it any more.

Losing damage? They are buffing every other stat to help mitigate the crit loss

If you look at the calculations people have made, the dps loss is pretty big. One thread showed that Soldier’s gear will have higher dps than celestial after the nerf.

Can you link please? I actually have celestial and boon runes so it means im shafted again <.<

Here’s the link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Celestial-stat-compensation-mistake/first#post3799642

Are you sure you cannot use 2/2/2 runes? Or they are gonna change stat for a lot of runes, but i read this …

“We know that some builds rely on mixing and matching different runes to optimize a given stat, and we don’t want to stop players from doing that. Rather than limiting build diversity, we simply want the PvE rune system to be as clear and approachable as possible for new players, so we’re making it easier to understand the benefits of sticking with a single rune set.”

They’ve already shown the changes to Monk runes, which will bring down it’s second slot to a 5% increase. So, no, you will not be able to get a 45% bonus from using the 2/2/2 runes anymore.

Falassion.8031:

Are you sure you cannot use 2/2/2 runes? Or they are gonna change stat for a lot of runes, but i read this …

For the most part, it’s the later. Monk runes are going from 15% boon duration to 5% boon duration for the 2nd stat. The trend seems to be moving most of a rune’s power to the later bonuses. That said, it may not be a big deal. I think we only know about 4 rune sets or so. We’ll have to see what all is there.

Fenrina.2954:

Falassion.8031:

Are you sure you cannot use 2/2/2 runes? Or they are gonna change stat for a lot of runes, but i read this …

For the most part, it’s the later. Monk runes are going from 15% boon duration to 5% boon duration for the 2nd stat. The trend seems to be moving most of a rune’s power to the later bonuses. That said, it may not be a big deal. I think we only know about 4 rune sets or so. We’ll have to see what all is there.

I believe they’ll have one rune set as the “boon duration” rune set, which will basically be the goto set if you want general boon duration.

For instance, runes of strength are a might duration set, with a significant increase in might duration. Something similar might be done to one of the rune sets, except for general boon duration.

Even still, I don’t think you’ll be able to get the boon duration as high as before. It wouldn’t make sense for the amount of general boon duration to exceed that of a single type of boon (i.e. might on the strength runes), but I’m guessing it’d be more than 15%. Maybe around the 25-30% area.

I really do hope there will be a rune set that gives 30% boon duration or higher, but as of now, we can only hope.

Agreed. They said they tried to cover “almost every build” so a 30%+ rune is quite possible. I’m not sure 30% is the upper bounds, but that pretty much depends upon if they added additional bonuses to those runes (stuff like strength’s might when hit or damage with might).

I think the new D/D ele is going to be fine.

0/30/0/20/20

Cantrip build (as usual) but with cleansing fire to make up for the loss of cleansing water.

Interrupts causing weakness to your opponent will be a huge boon. Updraft, earthquake and lightning aura will cause weakness.

Furthermore, if they put some variation of Runes of Perplexity into sPvP, you can cause confusion on interrupt….

As someone who runs a knights/zerker/valk mix for a DPS D/D build, I’m much more worried about the nerf to crit damage than the boon duration. If ferocity is equal to the minor stats on valk/zerker gear, and the 15 points to 1% conversion is right, I’m looking at a 37% crit damage loss.

Combine that with the fact that if I want to keep my stacks, I’ll be getting no additional damage from new sigil combinations… And things aren’t looking great.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

I think the new D/D ele is going to be fine.

0/30/0/20/20

Cantrip build (as usual) but with cleansing fire to make up for the loss of cleansing water.

Interrupts causing weakness to your opponent will be a huge boon. Updraft, earthquake and lightning aura will cause weakness.

Furthermore, if they put some variation of Runes of Perplexity into sPvP, you can cause confusion on interrupt….

I was thinking the same stat distribution, although I use one with arcane skills for big bursts. Crit damage changes might hurt it a lot though (in WvW at least). Cantrip-based one will still probably be better overall.

Somehow I don’t think we’ll see perplexity in sPvP in the patch, for the same reasons they don’t want to put dire armor stats in. I guess we’ll have to see though.

If there’s ever a +30% duration for all boons in this game, then what would be the point of investing on the much inferior +45% duration for a single boon only?

This “nerf” to overall boon duration makes sense, because it’ll create incentives for players to specialize on specific boons.

Besides, the new Rune of Strength is very lovely to D/D eles, especially now that sigil of battle can be coupled with sigil of strength, and assuming that sigil of strength gets a slight buff.

I really do hope there will be a rune set that gives 30% boon duration or higher, but as of now, we can only hope.

As of now, you’ll be able to get at least 20% by mixing 4 runes of monk with 2 other boon duration runes, assuming that there will still exist a second set that offers +5% on the second effect.

DiogoSilva.7089:

If there’s ever a +30% duration for all boons in this game, then what would be the point of investing on the much inferior +45% duration for a single boon only?

This “nerf” to overall boon duration makes sense, because it’ll create incentives for players to specialize on specific boons.

Besides, the new Rune of Strength is very lovely to D/D eles, especially now that sigil of battle can be coupled with sigil of strength, and assuming that sigil of strength gets a slight buff.

I really do hope there will be a rune set that gives 30% boon duration or higher, but as of now, we can only hope.

As of now, you’ll be able to get at least 20% by mixing 4 runes of monk with 2 other boon duration runes, assuming that there will still exist a second set that offers +5% on the second effect.

This is my thinking also the only saving grace that I see is they put a general boon duration rune at 30% and it is a healing power rune. The fact that it would be healing power would be the only turn off I think to not just take it over other rune.

Still though if strength is boosted to 50% on crit with battle 25 stacks will be very easy with out even trying.

My 0/30/0/30/10 fresh air D/D build will be mostly untouched. A few nice improvements are the I-frames on fire dagger 3. So often I find myself charging in to do ZOMGDMG only to find that I have been oneshot before I got there. This should certainly improve the situation.

My gear was only mostly berserker with a couple of PVT pieces mixed in to bring me to around 16k hp.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

I think the new D/D ele is going to be fine.

0/30/0/20/20

Cantrip build (as usual) but with cleansing fire to make up for the loss of cleansing water.

Interrupts causing weakness to your opponent will be a huge boon. Updraft, earthquake and lightning aura will cause weakness.

Furthermore, if they put some variation of Runes of Perplexity into sPvP, you can cause confusion on interrupt….

With this set you are gonna lose evasive arcana …

Falassion.8031:

With this set you are gonna lose evasive arcana …

Yes you will. But you’ll gain more critical damage, more critical chance in place of boon duration (Rune is getting nerfed) and attunement swap speed (already nerfed) on top of the new GM trait in air which is strong for D/D.

All for EA? I think the choice is obvious now.

Falassion.8031:

With this set you are gonna lose evasive arcana …

It’s always clear which players have just run the 2012 bunker boon duration build without ever deviating because they saw a video of a player doing well with it.

Evasive Arcana isn’t necessary to be effective as an Ele.

It seems like this thread got hijacked :p but I think D/D Ele will be extremely more viable than it was before especially since the buffs they mentioned were specifically for Dagger main hand. I would look forward to switching over to Ele and you will have a lot more fun clicking 20 different skills than just one or two on thief.

D/D ele takes a lot more skill than most people think due to the absurd amount of combos, the right timing with your skills, and of course the perfect dodging, which you will want to learn all about. Celestial is getting ~6% stat boost according to devs, disregarding the crit dmg nerf. It will still be the best choice of armor and weapons IMO for ele. Learn to play ele and learn how to counter classes and you literally can beat anything.

I’m running full celestial since exotic ^^, but it’s gonna hurt alot with this crit dmg nerf. About new traits, i would like to see 30/10/0/0/30 cantrip dd build focused on blind on burn (burn on crit + zephyr boon, flame barrier + lingering elements) and stacks might on using cantrip. With sigil of battle and sigil of leeching/inteligence with strength runes (or i hope boon duration runes) should make nice synergy. Cleanesing fire would make aoe blind + 3 stacks of might ^^.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Falassion.8031:

With this set you are gonna lose evasive arcana …

It’s always clear which players have just run the 2012 bunker boon duration build without ever deviating because they saw a video of a player doing well with it.

Evasive Arcana isn’t necessary to be effective as an Ele.

Exactly. There are people locked into the mindset that you’re required to have 30 points in Arcana if you’re playing DD. EA is good but it’s not a necessity. You will just need 20 points in Arcana at most if you can balance your build well. I’ve even tried builds with 0/10 points Arcana for fun.

Kyon.9735:

Exactly. There are people locked into the mindset that you’re required to have 30 points in Arcana if you’re playing DD. EA is good but it’s not a necessity. You will just need 20 points in Arcana at most if you can balance your build well. I’ve even tried builds with 0/10 points Arcana for fun.

I’ve found it incredibly difficult to run a build that doesn’t have elemental attunement. But maybe it’s just me.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Kyon.9735:

Exactly. There are people locked into the mindset that you’re required to have 30 points in Arcana if you’re playing DD. EA is good but it’s not a necessity. You will just need 20 points in Arcana at most if you can balance your build well. I’ve even tried builds with 0/10 points Arcana for fun.

I’ve found it incredibly difficult to run a build that doesn’t have elemental attunement. But maybe it’s just me.

I’ve tried and tried to experiment and get away from the arcane tree, but I always end up back to at least 20 in arcana.

I think that D/D ele will get an huge buff in the next patch, though I don’t think that you can play D/D ele as you used to play it back where it was OP months ago.

I’ll sum it up all the buffs it will get:

1. Burning Speed now evades: assuming it is 3/4 evades, it is quite a lot of damage mitigation since that skill is usually used to get into fights and to go away from them.
2. Frozen Burst get a blast finisher: that is a 3 more perma stacks of might, if you’re good enough.
3. Blinding Ashes: that trait is extremely good for D/D elementalists, since it opens extremely good defensive capabilities on an offensive traitline, which means that you can get 300 more power without worrying that much of losing a lot of defenses. D/D is also the weapon set with more burning application skills.
4. Rune of Strength: those runes got a straight buff to damage and might duration, making them a solid choice as much as boon duration runes.

True, celestial gear has been nerfed, but you get also more stats out of it now (which is always good on elementalists) and, most importantly, the crit damage has been nerfed across the board, so you won’t feel the damage loss that much.

What I think is that we won’t see the 0/10/0/30/30 D/D cantrip elementalists making a glorious return, but we’ll see more build options coming out.

Frankly i believe the fire trait is extremely fun…

Unfortunately ferocity and rune change will hurt DD ele extra hard…..
The loss of a huge % of dps paired with the long cooldowns means burst becomes weaker…

Buff duration will suffer from rune nerf, while 2H weapons will get a second sigils making the gap smaller.

The issue with the fire trait also is that force elementalist to leave the water line.
That means giving up condition cleanse and forcing ele to slot cleansing fire.
But since cantrip nerf you are already short on utilities:

-armor of earth
-mistform
-arcane shield
-lightning flash (for mobility ).

Are equally needed…..
You also lose cantrip mastery….

There is no way to change ele build diversity without addressing SKILLS rather than traits.

Maybe in pvp ….but not in WWW

LordByron.8369:

Frankly i believe the fire trait is extremely fun…

Unfortunately ferocity and rune change will hurt DD ele extra hard…..
The loss of a huge % of dps paired with the long cooldowns means burst becomes weaker…

Buff duration will suffer from rune nerf, while 2H weapons will get a second sigils making the gap smaller.

The issue with the fire trait also is that force elementalist to leave the water line.
That means giving up condition cleanse and forcing ele to slot cleansing fire.
But since cantrip nerf you are already short on utilities:

-armor of earth
-mistform
-arcane shield
-lightning flash (for mobility ).

Are equally needed…..
You also lose cantrip mastery….

There is no way to change ele build diversity without addressing SKILLS rather than traits.

Maybe in pvp ….but not in WWW

Well, it is true you loss crit damage, but you also gain 6% more stats out of celestial pieces, which isn’t bad at all. Keep in mind that any burst profession is hurt from the ferocity change, while celestial gear is the only one to gain a buff to other attributes to compensate.
The burst damage is being nerfed across the board, not only on elementalists. As you lose burst because of the loss of crit damage (remember that Crit Damage is less valuable compared to raw power anyway), you gain more precision, more power, more dps from condition damage (burning still deals ok damage), more toughness and more vitality.

Also, remember that another buff is the fact that on swap sigils have individual cooldown, that means that you can take both battle and energy sigils, which is another huge buff especially on elementalists.

If you leave the water traitline, you don’t necessarily have to slot cleansing fire. You can go with Ether Renewal as healing skill, which is an amazing condition removal alone.

Also, I’m under the impression that you think that 30 arcana is mandatory. You can drop 10 arcana easily and invest it elsewhere, since you have already lost the healing power from the water traitline.

sorrow.2364:

LordByron.8369:

Frankly i believe the fire trait is extremely fun…

Unfortunately ferocity and rune change will hurt DD ele extra hard…..
The loss of a huge % of dps paired with the long cooldowns means burst becomes weaker…

Buff duration will suffer from rune nerf, while 2H weapons will get a second sigils making the gap smaller.

The issue with the fire trait also is that force elementalist to leave the water line.
That means giving up condition cleanse and forcing ele to slot cleansing fire.
But since cantrip nerf you are already short on utilities:

-armor of earth
-mistform
-arcane shield
-lightning flash (for mobility ).

Are equally needed…..
You also lose cantrip mastery….

There is no way to change ele build diversity without addressing SKILLS rather than traits.

Maybe in pvp ….but not in WWW

Well, it is true you loss crit damage, but you also gain 6% more stats out of celestial pieces, which isn’t bad at all. Keep in mind that any burst profession is hurt from the ferocity change, while celestial gear is the only one to gain a buff to other attributes to compensate.
The burst damage is being nerfed across the board, not only on elementalists. As you lose burst because of the loss of crit damage (remember that Crit Damage is less valuable compared to raw power anyway), you gain more precision, more power, more dps from condition damage (burning still deals ok damage), more toughness and more vitality.

Also, remember that another buff is the fact that on swap sigils have individual cooldown, that means that you can take both battle and energy sigils, which is another huge buff especially on elementalists.

If you leave the water traitline, you don’t necessarily have to slot cleansing fire. You can go with Ether Renewal as healing skill, which is an amazing condition removal alone.

Also, I’m under the impression that you think that 30 arcana is mandatory. You can drop 10 arcana easily and invest it elsewhere, since you have already lost the healing power from the water traitline.

You guys are forgetting, that in small fights mist form isn’t necessary and cleansing fire is cantrip also, which can now do aoe blind (blinding ashes). With bursts dropping on every build ele can finally leave water traitline (blind in offensive traitline should be in exchange). For example thieves are loosing 31% of dmg on backstab. As for me evasive arcana just grant too much (i trade water so extra heal on evade is nice + blast finisher and blind on burn on evade) + it gives extra burn proc on arcane precision.

I can not break a warrior (with healing signet) with my dps currently…. Since we’re getting a damage nerf for non-condition builds, even with healing signet changes I will still not be able to break a warrior passive heal.

Zutha.5091:

I can not break a warrior (with healing signet) with my dps currently…. Since we’re getting a damage nerf for non-condition builds, even with healing signet changes I will still not be able to break a warrior passive heal.

Healing Signet gets an 8% nerf.
Also, you are now able to go 30 fire without losing defensive capability.
All you have to do is leave the ultra tanky 30 water 30 arcane D/D ele and try something different, more offensive.

DnD eles rarely rely on burst. Most DnD eles are built with power as the main attribute for damage.

Boon duration will be hit by a max of 10% ,total , so also just a minor nerf (But not something i like)

Overall the classic DnD ele is not getting buffs, but the evade and ice blast finisher are nice to have.

You see, the Classic DnD is a problem for Anet. It doesnt die easily unless bursted hard by enemies, can heal and regen well, has aoe spells, can trait for cantrips and has 2+1 CC skills with an elite that allows you to escape fast , the FGS.

So lets wait for the real patch notes and not on what Anet says because we all know what is said and what is released during patch day differs, often.

sorrow.2364:

Zutha.5091:

I can not break a warrior (with healing signet) with my dps currently…. Since we’re getting a damage nerf for non-condition builds, even with healing signet changes I will still not be able to break a warrior passive heal.

Healing Signet gets an 8% nerf.
Also, you are now able to go 30 fire without losing defensive capability.
All you have to do is leave the ultra tanky 30 water 30 arcane D/D ele and try something different, more offensive.

Conditions are still meta and with changes will become even more so for none zerg/pve builds.

Removing 30 from water will be a death sentence with conditions becoming even more popular.

Zutha.5091:

Conditions are still meta and with changes will become even more so for none zerg/pve builds.

Removing 30 from water will be a death sentence with conditions becoming even more popular.

Not really.
If you bring Ether Renewal, you can afford to not go 30 water and still have awesome condition removal.

Also, don’t forget that with the sigil changes, they have announced that most on crit sigils will become on hit, that means that you can use either Sigil of Purity or Generosity to futher mitigate condition pressure reliably.

ether renewal is slow….
20 in water is almost mandatory :/ that because cantrip reduction, and cond cleanse are still a thing..

Expecially since you desperately need lightning flash for mobility with a 40 second RTL or any profession will outrun you.

I will try for sure
30/10/0/0/30 but i know i will change for sure :/ maybe 30/20/0/20/0 but the loss of all arcana trait is heavy…

Until they cancel RTL nerf i can t see anything helping me to leave 30 arcana and 20 water

LordByron.8369:

ether renewal is slow….
20 in water is almost mandatory :/ that because cantrip reduction, and cond cleanse are still a thing..

Expecially since you desperately need lightning flash for mobility with a 40 second RTL or any profession will outrun you.

Ether Renewal is slow, true, but it is also way more effective. It gives solid healing and condition removal on a tiny cooldown, allowing you to not invest 30 points into water.

With 20 in earth, you can get Rock Solid to make sure your Ether Renewal don’t get interrupted, while also getting safe stomping and reliable damage amplifier through Stone Splinters.

I have been playing with no points in Water for a long time and it is quite effective. Right now I don’t think I can play without Rock Solid anymore.

Still, I always slot Lightning Flash.

But that would mean being a tank…

WWW, DD and tank is not something effective since the lack of mobility+range compared to other roamers.

LordByron.8369:

But that would mean being a tank…

WWW, DD and tank is not something effective since the lack of mobility+range compared to other roamers.

If you take 20 in earth, you don’t become automatically a tank.
Keep in mind that Earth magic provides better damage output compared to Water Magic.

Yes, you lose sustain, but you gain more survivability and damage.

Question about d/d next patch… Will switching from berzerker to celestial gear be better? Right know I’m running d/d with berzerker gear.

Also was thinking about this is there going to be any new build using 30 water and arcana? I like 30 water and arcana for evasive roll and the trait where u switch tow after and you cleanse. Evasive roll helps me stay alive so much while I use berzerker gear and trinkets for power crit damage etc, so any ideas? I’m excited for April 15th!

Or what will be a build with nice damage and defense? I’m running 0-0-10-30-30 which is nice to keep me alive and full berzerker gear and trinkets with dylok runes, high survivability with awesome damage. :p

Any new builds going to be like that?

LordByron.8369:

ether renewal is slow….
20 in water is almost mandatory :/ that because cantrip reduction, and cond cleanse are still a thing..

Expecially since you desperately need lightning flash for mobility with a 40 second RTL or any profession will outrun you.

I will try for sure
30/10/0/0/30 but i know i will change for sure :/ maybe 30/20/0/20/0 but the loss of all arcana trait is heavy…

Until they cancel RTL nerf i can t see anything helping me to leave 30 arcana and 20 water

Ether renewal scales at 1.2 it is the best scaling heal we have. I gain appreciation for it when I looked at the fact that it does give me the best return on my healing power. I still run signet but Ether isn’t so bad at all if you can cover it.

Also like was mentioned Sigil of purity and generosity(if you can afford them) will give you at minimum 50% chance to remove a conditions with a 10 sec icd. If they keep them at 60% all the better. If runes of water do come out to be decent with the changes coming bringing the proc chance up to 25%, then that would be another removal. You would take a dps loss running this setup but you can make 30 water 30 arcana even better dealing with conditions and indirectly buff running SOR since it’s weakness is conditions.

I do not think Evasive Arcana is essential but i found it very usefull expecially when you dodge during water attunement.

And im “not locked” into the mindset that you’re required to have 30 points in Arcana" and im here to discuss with most experienced player how i can change my build for the next patch.

I played a thief and I always thought that I would not be able to play without feline grace. Now im trying to learn to play without it ….

The build someone suggest have 30 point in earth and now i have 0. Seems normal to me to try to understand why it would be interesting trying it.

Evasive Arcana is strong, but so is Fresh Air, and so is Cleansing Water, and so might be some of the new traits.

The greatest thing about Stone Heart, is that 20 arcana was almost necessary for the high protection uptime, and now you’ll have an alternative.

As for me i run now a bit offensive version of bunker build, and works really well. I can say that signet of restoration is much overrated, I’m using ether renewal all the time, without cleanse from water (had it but because of trait migration in last balance patch i realised, that i don’t need it). Still running with 15 in water (cause of electric discharge – too much like) though for extra 2k heal. Even without bunkering in 30 water im zerging with dd. Normally I roam, with this build I won quite much 1vs3 (moderate players). I would say – more you play with ele, more you know mechanic, less you need defence (damage pressure is defence itself and ele can be master of it and if i can have blind in offence setup im for it). Here’s my build (sometimes swapping mist for cleanesing fire if dealing with necros/engies): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEAQJAoYhMM6cW4wyBdEBA9gLjCdIP8Q5ROzYDA-zUCBYjBkEBgKAMRtIaslhBp6KslXRTVjIqWlELAACwNbzAYoDdoDdoDtrL0bezhO0CBobMA-w

I’m trying this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vEEQJAoYhMM6Z25wyBdEBA9gLhHCYAAyDPUKkDA-zkCBYfBk+AgEBM5basJqBpArIas6aYKXBV7CS9KxkCYUhRA-w

not sold on the runes i stillneed to see what will come.

That unless the new flame trait will be single target (and i bet it will be)..at that point i staying with the old build.

Can we not add some zealots gear to the meta? With knights and 1-2 pvt trinkets?

Is there a way of doing imitating celestial but using one of each type of gear? Maybe not literally but you know having knights, zealots, carrion set up? Would it be enough? 2 weapons, 6 bits of armor, 6 trinkets/rings/etc.

Classic D/D will still be as it was and its going to be even stronger with Burning Speed/runes/sigils boost.You will just lose the crit dmg.Believe me i don’t wanna go back to stone age with PVT again,but i have been using my old set recently instead of my celestial set and i can still kill people.I don’t see 8k firegrabs,but i can still get the job done.Maybe with some offensive runes and sigils the dmg will get boosted.2 offensive sigils will be a huge dmg boost every ICD.

About new builds.I am definatly trying the fire trait.But i find it usefull for duels or 1vs1 situations only.Will be fun as i always use cleansing fire offensivly to land my Fire grab.

About WvW i have found that Celestial with 0/0/20/30/20 is the best build to follow the melee train and do a lot of burst dmg.I think it will be more viable with Burning speed and frozen burst.

For a laugh I’ll probably do:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k;4B2kU0y4-NkY0;9;4TT;0937-03B;41;0Lk0;3m9fgm9fgg-FTV6;1Vb-Vt5PWu5ZYvai_5DWQ70HV5-cW5P;9;9;9;9;9;4V8k3Z

It’s called balls deep.
For a couple of days.