The current state of Diamond Skin makes it far too strong against condi classes. If you run Carrion or DIRE, forget about winning against an Elementalist using Diamond Skin. The main source of our DPS is all but gone, and it’s nearly impossible to get D/D and S/D elementalists below 90% HP with the tons of healing they have using power alone, depending on what class you play(Condi warriors should be fine). The trait should be redesigned to be similar to that of the Engi’s below 25% HP condi immunity trait, NOT above 90% HP. Then at the very least it would be more balanced in a 1v1 scenario yet provide eles with more toughness during zerg fights and small battles.
10% health is easy to break. Super Easy. If anyone even sneezes on the Ele that isn’t a necro, the health barrier breaks and Necros will just melt the Ele before they can regain that health.
Also, it’s a grandmaster trait that is /entirely/ useless against anyone other then a Necro or maybe Cond Engineer as well as in a team fight.
Sorry that your Necro can’t no-brain an Ele 1v1 anymore. You still have more of a chance then an Ele did against Necros pre-patch you know.
Diamond skin is a hard counter to pure condition builds. All you need to do is inflict 1,500-2,000 damage then you can continue melting Elementalists as normal.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
10% health is easy to break. Super Easy. If anyone even sneezes on the Ele that isn’t a necro, the health barrier breaks and Necros will just melt the Ele before they can regain that health.
Also, it’s a grandmaster trait that is /entirely/ useless against anyone other then a Necro or maybe Cond Engineer as well as in a team fight.
Sorry that your Necro can’t no-brain an Ele 1v1 anymore. You still have more of a chance then an Ele did against Necros pre-patch you know.
I’m not a necro, but thanks for making false assumptions then building insults on said assumption.
10% health is easy to break. Super Easy. If anyone even sneezes on the Ele that isn’t a necro, the health barrier breaks and Necros will just melt the Ele before they can regain that health.
Also, it’s a grandmaster trait that is /entirely/ useless against anyone other then a Necro or maybe Cond Engineer as well as in a team fight.
Sorry that your Necro can’t no-brain an Ele 1v1 anymore. You still have more of a chance then an Ele did against Necros pre-patch you know.
I’m not a necro, but thanks for making false assumptions then building insults on said assumption.
Then stop posting from the perspective of a Necro, which is the only class majorly affected by Diamond Skin.
Also, good job refuting my points. They’re all valid, while you’re just ranting.
Diamond skin is a hard counter to pure condition builds. All you need to do is inflict 1,500-2,000 damage then you can continue melting Elementalists as normal.
Also, note here that that an Ele in 30 Earth will not have 30 Water and will not have as much health as before.
10% health is easy to break. Super Easy. If anyone even sneezes on the Ele that isn’t a necro, the health barrier breaks and Necros will just melt the Ele before they can regain that health.
Also, it’s a grandmaster trait that is /entirely/ useless against anyone other then a Necro or maybe Cond Engineer as well as in a team fight.
Sorry that your Necro can’t no-brain an Ele 1v1 anymore. You still have more of a chance then an Ele did against Necros pre-patch you know.
I’m not a necro, but thanks for making false assumptions then building insults on said assumption.
Then stop posting from the perspective of a Necro, which is the only class majorly affected by Diamond Skin.
Also, good job refuting my points. They’re all valid, while you’re just ranting.
Diamond skin is a hard counter to pure condition builds. All you need to do is inflict 1,500-2,000 damage then you can continue melting Elementalists as normal.
Also, note here that that an Ele in 30 Earth will not have 30 Water and will not have as much health as before.
You don’t play every class if you think necro is the only class affected. Guess you’ve never played a carrion/dire engi or thief.
Diamond skin is a hard counter to pure condition builds. All you need to do is inflict 1,500-2,000 damage then you can continue melting Elementalists as normal.
Funny … many thief builds can melt an elementalist in a few seconds regardless of build , but elementalist becomes powerful vs a subset of a couple of classes and all of a sudden its a big thing. No one seemed to care when it was just Elementalists dieing without being able to be a noticeable benefit in a group situation. :p
Diamond Skin is not powerful at all vs the vast majority of the game … while the ele remains the lowest hitpoints, lowest armor class with no survival gimmicks like stealth, clones, or deathshroud … and all the while basically having the same damage output as every other class.
In short … cry me a river.
80 Elementalist (RotV), 80 Mesmer (RotV)
80 Necromancer (IRNY), 80 Guardian (IRNY)
GW2: it’s like DAoC, but for the WoW crowd.
Lol. Love when non-elementalists come and ask for ele nerfs. That’s how all our netfs have happened.
But honestly, I hope they do change diamond skin, because if I took diamond skin, someone would have to hit me a measly 1700 health. Warriors shake that damage out of their hair like dandruff.
The current state of Diamond Skin makes it far too strong against condi classes. If you run Carrion or DIRE, forget about winning against an Elementalist using Diamond Skin. The main source of our DPS is all but gone, and it’s nearly impossible to get D/D and S/D elementalists below 90% HP with the tons of healing they have using power alone, depending on what class you play(Condi warriors should be fine). The trait should be redesigned to be similar to that of the Engi’s below 25% HP condi immunity trait, NOT above 90% HP. Then at the very least it would be more balanced in a 1v1 scenario yet provide eles with more toughness during zerg fights and small battles.
Have you even tried it??? I have, and it was near useless. Take 1.5k – 2k damage and tada game over. So even a non power necro with scepter 1 you can do ~500 damage an attack, so 3 – 4 attacks and the player is now affected by conditions. Or 1 hit from any profession that does 1k – 3k damage, tada now Diamond Skin is inactive.
Don’t wear your cheezy dire armor then. That stat combo was never meant to be in the game in the first place, and it’s good there is something to dissuade you from using pure dire. If you run carrion you have no excuse for not being able to melt off a piddly 1500 to 2000 hp. If you are a thief just use your power based instead of condition based moves. The whole point of thief no-cd skill system is to be able to use whatever move works best for the situation, and if you are spamming condition moves against a diamond skin ele with a carrion thief (which has a good amount of power), that is l2p.
The current state of Diamond Skin makes it far too strong against condi classes. If you run Carrion or DIRE, forget about winning against an Elementalist using Diamond Skin. The main source of our DPS is all but gone, and it’s nearly impossible to get D/D and S/D elementalists below 90% HP with the tons of healing they have using power alone, depending on what class you play(Condi warriors should be fine). The trait should be redesigned to be similar to that of the Engi’s below 25% HP condi immunity trait, NOT above 90% HP. Then at the very least it would be more balanced in a 1v1 scenario yet provide eles with more toughness during zerg fights and small battles.
Have you even tried it??? I have, and it was near useless. Take 1.5k – 2k damage and tada game over. So even a non power necro with scepter 1 you can do ~500 damage an attack, so 3 – 4 attacks and the player is now affected by conditions. Or 1 hit from any profession that does 1k – 3k damage, tada now Diamond Skin is inactive.
So do you think that it should be redesigned to work like the Engi(25% HP = Condi immunity)? If you do, then it’s a win win situation. It’s far too powerful in a 1v1, far too weak anywhere else. It’s a bad trait and should be redesigned.
If this was designed to counter condi builds, fine, but what about power/tanky necros who rely on (non-damaging) conditions such as Chill or Immobilize to even get close to a ranged Ele? Its not like we’re anywhere in the neighborhood of needing nerfs (quite the opposite in certain areas)… it would be one thing if Diamond skin read “you are immune to condition damage when over 90% health” but this is far too much for such a low mobility class running melee to not be able to use these tools to slow our enemies. That’s all we have aside from the easily dodge-able Dark Path.
If this was designed to counter condi builds, fine, but what about power/tanky necros who rely on (non-damaging) conditions such as Chill or Immobilize to even get close to a ranged Ele? Its not like we’re anywhere in the neighborhood of needing nerfs (quite the opposite in certain areas)… it would be one thing if Diamond skin read “you are immune to condition damage when over 90% health” but this is far too much for such a low mobility class running melee to not be able to use these tools to slow our enemies. That’s all we have aside from the easily dodge-able Dark Path.
It’s the same thing as DS power builds. You run tanky da power builds so you essentially soak up all types of damage. The thing is if your running power build why don’t you life blast? Spinal shivers to remove crucial boons? Life transfer? Axe auto? Use damage attacks snare after you reduce their health.
Hi. I am elementalist. I am elementalist since beta. This trait very good. I kill many necro and thief and engi now thanks to trait. I take no damage from them. They is very easy to kill. If I take damage from them I heal because of boon called regeneration and water skill. Engi can no shoot me and flames no more. It very good. Almost too good.
Spvp elementalist very stronk. I take on many necro and engi and no die. I once scared of engi and necro. Now I not.
This trait make me very powerful. Thank you anet for make me undieable to necro and engi. Much thanks.
Hi. I am elementalist. I am elementalist since beta. This trait very good. I kill many necro and thief and engi now thanks to trait. I take no damage from them. They is very easy to kill. If I take damage from them I heal because of boon called regeneration and water skill. Engi can no shoot me and flames no more. It very good. Almost too good.
Spvp elementalist very stronk. I take on many necro and engi and no die. I once scared of engi and necro. Now I not.
This trait make me very powerful. Thank you anet for make me undieable to necro and engi. Much thanks.
well on the other side if it helps to have a useless trait redesigned….
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Hi. I am elementalist. I am elementalist since beta. This trait very good. I kill many necro and thief and engi now thanks to trait. I take no damage from them. They is very easy to kill. If I take damage from them I heal because of boon called regeneration and water skill. Engi can no shoot me and flames no more. It very good. Almost too good.
Spvp elementalist very stronk. I take on many necro and engi and no die. I once scared of engi and necro. Now I not.
This trait make me very powerful. Thank you anet for make me undieable to necro and engi. Much thanks.
You play Thief and Ranger. Please leave.
No. I play elementalist since alpha. You no read? I say before. See? I take picture. See ele is very good. Thank you for buff anet. I play good when engi and necro come.
Hi. I am elementalist. I am elementalist since beta. This trait very good. I kill many necro and thief and engi now thanks to trait. I take no damage from them. They is very easy to kill. If I take damage from them I heal because of boon called regeneration and water skill. Engi can no shoot me and flames no more. It very good. Almost too good.
Spvp elementalist very stronk. I take on many necro and engi and no die. I once scared of engi and necro. Now I not.
This trait make me very powerful. Thank you anet for make me undieable to necro and engi. Much thanks.
You play Thief and Ranger. Please leave.
No. I play elementalist since alpha. You no read? I say before. See? I take picture. See ele is very good. Thank you for buff anet. I play good when engi and necro come.
At least we know he’s sarcastic now, I couldn’t actually tell from the first post.
Really, 30 arcana is still almost required for any ele build now, so this means that ele’s who have diamond skin are in fact sacrificing hp to do so. If you see “Immune” pop up, just use any one of your myriad damaging skills like twice until you do the small amount of damage needed to completely remove all traces of their grandmaster trait. If you can’t do 2k damage in a few seconds with autoattacks, that is your problem and you probably need to work on that, because anything with acceptable amounts of condition removal would do the same thing to your build and would be able to do it without sacrificing a grandmaster trait.
Diamond skin is a hard counter to pure condition builds. All you need to do is inflict 1,500-2,000 damage then you can continue melting Elementalists as normal.
Funny … many thief builds can melt an elementalist in a few seconds regardless of build , but elementalist becomes powerful vs a subset of a couple of classes and all of a sudden its a big thing. No one seemed to care when it was just Elementalists dieing without being able to be a noticeable benefit in a group situation. :p
Diamond Skin is not powerful at all vs the vast majority of the game … while the ele remains the lowest hitpoints, lowest armor class with no survival gimmicks like stealth, clones, or deathshroud … and all the while basically having the same damage output as every other class.
In short … cry me a river.
so, I was trying out the Diamond Skin in WvW yesterday. Got backstabbed by a Thief and died in ONE hit. That’s with increased toughness from 30 in Earth and the Diamond Skin trait to help against condis.
It did make me want to roll a stealth-thief next though, heh.
10% health is easy to break. Super Easy. If anyone even sneezes on the Ele that isn’t a necro, the health barrier breaks and Necros will just melt the Ele before they can regain that health.
Also, it’s a grandmaster trait that is /entirely/ useless against anyone other then a Necro or maybe Cond Engineer as well as in a team fight.
Sorry that your Necro can’t no-brain an Ele 1v1 anymore. You still have more of a chance then an Ele did against Necros pre-patch you know.
I’m not a necro, but thanks for making false assumptions then building insults on said assumption.
But seriously, necros are the only ones really having an issue with it… My mesmer (condi built) has no issues, my ranger has no issues, my engi has no issues, and my ele has no issues vs diamond skin eles, hell the ONLY people i’ve heard complain about this change is NECRO and it’s normally more of a QQ i can’t smash my face on the keyboard and kill the ele in 2.5s anymore!
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
I also doubt an Ele can kill a PU mesmer, and there’s not even a build that they can switch to to beat it.
There are many things an ele can still do to prevent that 1500-2000 damage. Eles will not just stand and laugh while the necro burst their kitten off trying to Scepter#1 them. Protection, regeneration, dodging. Also going offensive. The worst that can happen is Signet of Restoration, healing with every spell cast. Also to note that eles going that deep into earth would already have significant enough toughness to shrug off Scepter skills.
Moral of the story? Dont use scepter against diamond skin. Or staff. Anything else is game really.
Guess thats one way to push necros out of the conditionmancer meta. Shame to see conditions getting less effective with every patch though. I like Damage over Time.
(This feels like earth attunement is trying to usurp bleeding stacks from necros, lol)
I’ve solo queued using 0 0 30 20 20 with divinity runes, soldier amulet, barbarian trinket and have won 7 of the 9 matches i played. It works decently for holding points and works really well for going from point to point.
I really enjoy this thread because I spent the last two days defending Diamond Skin in these forums from Ele’s who were shouting “this trait sux”.
Unfortunately for the OP, I think a majority of the Elementalist community would like to see the health threshold for Diamond Skin lowered to 85% or 80% in order to make the trait even more effective.
From my play experience so far Diamond Skin has only been useful in WvW. When I’m in PvE, the trait is essentially worthless because there’s always direct damage coupled with conditions which blows past the 10% health buffer in one hit. I have not evaluated it in PvP.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
We were discussing in a similar thread on the Necro forum that some of us would like to see the threshold dropped to 80-85%, but simply make the ele immune to condition damage – in this way power necros (who are, if anything, underpowered) don’t get shafted, and condi necros can at least try to CC you somewhat to avoid damage until an ally can assist. This makes sense as the devs state they balance around team play- It would do an even better job of stopping faceroll condition builds from imploding you guys, and would help more in PvE – but it wouldn’t act as such a hard counter and at least give us some options.
We were discussing in a similar thread on the Necro forum that some of us would like to see the threshold dropped to 80-85%, but simply make the ele immune to condition damage – in this way power necros (who are, if anything, underpowered) don’t get shafted, and condi necros can at least try to CC you somewhat to avoid damage until an ally can assist. This makes sense as the devs state they balance around team play- It would do an even better job of stopping faceroll condition builds from imploding you guys, and would help more in PvE – but it wouldn’t act as such a hard counter and at least give us some options.
I agree with this
In fact, they should do this to zerker stance too.
This trait was super ill-conceived. Some players have no answers to this and it snaps them in half, and the rest of the time the poor elementalist invested heavily in a build that can utilize this trait and the trait will still be useless. You’ve got frustrated elementalists when it isn’t working, and frustrated condi builds when it is working. It’s too all or nothing.
25% flat condition duration reduction would have been a more elegant solution, but instead you all wanted the interesting, unique, wildly unbalanced solution. Well played.
Because gw2 revolves around 1v1. This trait is rendered useless in group fights. Unless you all happen to be running carrion. In which case condition builds are overpowered and over used and now have a hard counter.
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
Spam stealth like a good mesmer and run away?
Eles have no tricks up our sleeves. We aren’t going to stealth away we aren’t going to CC you into submission and we aren’t going to dash off in a hurry. We are like necros. We have to stand our ground and fight.
Necros have double our healthpool (4 times as much counting death shroud) and eles have condi immunity above 90% hp? Take this away and we can go back to having nothing so little overpowered google build mesmers, necros and engis can kitten on us again
Because gw2 revolves around 1v1. This trait is rendered useless in group fights. Unless you all happen to be running carrion. In which case condition builds are overpowered and over used and now have a hard counter.
Actually I find it the most useful in group fights (including zergs) where your team is providing healz through combos and other skills. This keeps you topped above 90% health (especially considering our health pool is so low that any group heal is effective).
I find the trait least effective in solo except under very specific scenarios (i.e. pure condition foes with little direct damage). In PvE this scenario doesn’t seem to exist.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
I’m sorry if you’re a PU Mesmer and Diamond Skin is getting in the way of you winning you are just plain terrible. Summon ANY phantasm and you will bring the ele below the threshold (iMage may be the exception). The majority of your conditions come from clones exploding which take time to generate, which by then you should have been able to do 1.5 – 2k damage to the ele. It’s not like the ele is slipping in and out of stealth.
And like everyone said before, sorry you can’t face slam the keyboard anymore to unload conditions on an ele. Sorry you have to work so hard to get your 2k damage off before you can mindlessly spam your conditions with ZERO effort.
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
I run like 0/20/20/0/30 on my mes all I did was summon a phantasmal disenchanter and a phantasmal warlock, wait till my clones were putting condis up and then blasted him with so much confusion that his great grandchildren were punching themselves in the face.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
I run like 0/20/20/0/30 on my mes all I did was summon a phantasmal disenchanter and a phantasmal warlock, wait till my clones were putting condis up and then blasted him with so much confusion that his great grandchildren were punching themselves in the face.
I think the community will catch on really quick and change their skill rotations to counter the diamond skin. It’s not hard unless you have no direct damage what so ever.
Part of me thinks that someone in ANet was thinking “hey, wanna see something funny? Watch this…”
Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.
I run like 0/20/20/0/30 on my mes all I did was summon a phantasmal disenchanter and a phantasmal warlock, wait till my clones were putting condis up and then blasted him with so much confusion that his great grandchildren were punching themselves in the face.
I think the community will catch on really quick and change their skill rotations to counter the diamond skin. It’s not hard unless you have no direct damage what so ever.
Which is only condi necros atm, and that’s because they can 100% to 0% you in a few seconds by smashing their face on the keyboard, very skillful build.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
I think it’s too weak. they should reduce the threshold to 75%. So sorry you necros cant effortlessly kill us anymore. Atleast we stand a chance against conditions now. Without something like this there’s zero an ele can do against a condition necro. You’re just dead in 2 seconds. And a necro who isnt braindead can still kill an ele. 1 lifeblast even on a pure condi build will take us below the threshold, then you can go back to your mindless condition spamming. This is a L2P issue.
The skill isn’t as strong as I expected it to be for my burst non glass cannon Ele in WvW. The threshold gets bypassed too easily even when my burst Ele has 3k armor buffed. I can only see this trait working very well for those extremely bunker eles that run with 0/0/30/30/10 build or something very similar where even the gears are for bunker spec and probably even a defensive weapon set such d/f or s/f.
Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!
There’s no such thing as a “condi” class. All classes can do Condi Builds, and all classes have non-condi builds. Except Eles, who have no viable builds.
If this was designed to counter condi builds, fine, but what about power/tanky necros who rely on (non-damaging) conditions such as Chill or Immobilize to even get close to a ranged Ele? Its not like we’re anywhere in the neighborhood of needing nerfs (quite the opposite in certain areas)… it would be one thing if Diamond skin read “you are immune to condition damage when over 90% health” but this is far too much for such a low mobility class running melee to not be able to use these tools to slow our enemies. That’s all we have aside from the easily dodge-able Dark Path.
This trait was designed to help not just against Condi Builds (and thus try to break the Condi Meta lock the game is in now) but also to give Eles a fighting chance against things like Stun Lock Warriors who just come close to us, throw their bolas and smash us with hammers and we just die.
It’s nice to finally be able to shrug off these immobilize/cripple/chill attacks that just kill us because we can’t tank, and we can only survive by dodging and fancy footwork/kiting.
Stop crying me a river, this trait is a badly needed ability.
Too bad I couldn’t use it, since I am currently in a 30/10/10/10/10 build, but one of these days I will experiment to try using it, I wonder how great my survivability will become….
The skill isn’t as strong as I expected it to be for my burst non glass cannon Ele in WvW. The threshold gets bypassed too easily even when my burst Ele has 3k armor buffed. I can only see this trait working very well for those extremely bunker eles that run with 0/0/30/30/10 build or something very similar where even the gears are for bunker spec and probably even a defensive weapon set such d/f or s/f.
Have you tried signet of restoration? Also, taking just 15 in water or 30 arcana should be enough sustain to stay topped off.
However, if you take SoR, you now have very few ways to deal with condis besides ‘stay above 90%.’ Of course, with a focus, you have options (that 3x clear on earth 4 is awesome). Perhaps 0/15/30/15/10 could work well.
The skill isn’t as strong as I expected it to be for my burst non glass cannon Ele in WvW. The threshold gets bypassed too easily even when my burst Ele has 3k armor buffed. I can only see this trait working very well for those extremely bunker eles that run with 0/0/30/30/10 build or something very similar where even the gears are for bunker spec and probably even a defensive weapon set such d/f or s/f.
Haven’t tried the trait yet, but the way I imagine I’ll be using it is in a nuke build. The main problem with 30 Fire nuke builds is that if you get hit by Chill, Immobilize or Cripple it’s pretty much game over.
With this, you can avoid those issues, and continue to kite at the outskirts dropping bombs. However, going 30 Earth is really going to kill my damage potential. I’d have to give up my powerful Fire traits to use it — but I’ll experiment and see how I like it. Will do that in the weekend, no time to do it now.
If this was designed to counter condi builds, fine, but what about power/tanky necros who rely on (non-damaging) conditions such as Chill or Immobilize to even get close to a ranged Ele? Its not like we’re anywhere in the neighborhood of needing nerfs (quite the opposite in certain areas)… it would be one thing if Diamond skin read “you are immune to condition damage when over 90% health” but this is far too much for such a low mobility class running melee to not be able to use these tools to slow our enemies. That’s all we have aside from the easily dodge-able Dark Path.
Part of this trait is in fact for the purposes of negating movement impairing conditions, because with the change to stacking duration conditions that is all anyone had to do to kill most elementalists.
A group runs up stack immobilze and your a sitting duck. This trait just allows the elementalist a time to actual get into a fight so those cheese tactics can be defended against.
