Guild Wars 2

Per title. Why would anyone try and squish bits of healing when a single druid can rule it all? It’s got GREAT healing for all sorts of situation, and it’s constant with lots of protective buffs. Tempest can’t even remotely match druid’s effectiveness, even base ele fully traited with water/arcane. It’s just hilarious, druid heals while attacking, and heals back by every delivered heal, which increases its HEALING. Like, wtf?

I hope that at least they don’t break the condi builds that me and quite a few people have been making, because it’s different than Fireball/Lava Font gameplay we’ve had for 3 years now.

Tempest was never supposed to be a pure healing spec like druid. This was obvious since its reveal and is nothing new. Tempest is simply a failed support spec that relies on sub-par auras and does nothing to actually make them good. Tempest also brings some healing and boons as a bonus, but they are not enough to make it competitive atm.

Tempest has more sustained healing, more support via auras and boons and WAY MORE DAMAGE. Druid is virtually a sitting duck delegating the dps to the pet, and if you don’t go full cleric or full tank con the druid than you just have to give up to astral form and waste half of the spec.

Druid has a lot of cc and burst heal, but it’s not mandatory. Cleric Guardian/Revenant has more sustained heal and boons, and I’m sure that over a long fight actually heals more. Actually Guardian probably has more burst heal since has a signet to fully heal a whole group from 1hp to 40k.

Tempest with water traits and aura sharing has a lot of water fields, heal, regen, boons, auras, and does decent damage with great mobility. Sure, has less easy to access bust heal, but the heal is there, just more skill barrier.

Ganathar.4956:

Tempest was never supposed to be a pure healing spec like druid. This was obvious since its reveal and is nothing new. Tempest is simply a failed support spec that relies on sub-par auras and does nothing to actually make them good. Tempest also brings some healing and boons as a bonus, but they are not enough to make it competitive atm.

I know, it’s just disheartening. Tempest is getting behind every other single elite spec. No funny PvP videos against noobs will convince me at this point, they have to show a role where Tempest does good, or we’re forced to completely ignore this spec. This game isn’t all about animation or ocasional buffs, it’s about SYNERGY, and Tempest is officially under tuned in every way now.

In what content over the last 3 years have you ever been called on to do nothing but heal? Elementalist has always been, and has always excelled as a class that can shift roles on the fly mid-combat. A heal-speced Druid heals… and if they use their on the fly role swap… they STILL HEAL.

If you can’t figure out how to bring more to a situation with 4 attunements and 20 weapon skills Elementalist probably isn’t the class for you in the first place. But if you can weave the elements and damage, CC, withstand, and heal as needed the prospect of being a mono-healer ought to look pretty kitten dull even with the shiny new FX. (and you can do it all without the stupid pet AI….)

Nike.2631:

In what content over the last 3 years have you ever been called on to do nothing but heal? Elementalist has always been, and has always excelled as a class that can shift roles on the fly mid-combat. A heal-speced Druid heals… and if they use their on the fly role swap… they STILL HEAL.

If you can’t figure out how to bring more to a situation with 4 attunements and 20 weapon skills Elementalist probably isn’t the class for you in the first place. But if you can weave the elements and damage, CC, withstand, and heal as needed the prospect of being a mono-healer ought to look pretty kitten dull even with the shiny new FX. (and you can do it all without the stupid pet AI….)

To be fair druids might be able to make some sort of hybrid build out of druid. After all they can take 2 additional trait lines and they can take a 2nd weapon as well, or even replace staff if they are feeling like experimenting.

I don’t see them becoming as versatile as an ele but they may be able to provide something else besides healing if they build for it. It depends on the balance changes that will come and on the practical application of these experimental builds. It’s quite difficult to predict if druid can work in different ways and I look forward to trying this.

Nike.2631:

In what content over the last 3 years have you ever been called on to do nothing but heal? Elementalist has always been, and has always excelled as a class that can shift roles on the fly mid-combat. A heal-speced Druid heals… and if they use their on the fly role swap… they STILL HEAL.

If you can’t figure out how to bring more to a situation with 4 attunements and 20 weapon skills Elementalist probably isn’t the class for you in the first place. But if you can weave the elements and damage, CC, withstand, and heal as needed the prospect of being a mono-healer ought to look pretty kitten dull even with the shiny new FX. (and you can do it all without the stupid pet AI….)

Well, I know, but the nature of the class (attunements) is preventing the spec from becoming something somewhat refreshing in terms of gameplay. I pretty much wanted to see more focused roles with Tempest. Chronomancers for instance, got a particular buff, I did believe eles would have it to differentiate from the base class, but they’re still playing around the very same scheme we always had, we’re just delivering the effects from another angle. It doesn’t feel different at all.

Tempest was pretty useless in the current game before druids.

MadRabbit.3179:

Tempest was pretty useless in the current game before druids.

I know. I’m just voicing my dissatisfaction on how it went even lower down the line.

Valento.9852:

Nike.2631:

In what content over the last 3 years have you ever been called on to do nothing but heal? Elementalist has always been, and has always excelled as a class that can shift roles on the fly mid-combat. A heal-speced Druid heals… and if they use their on the fly role swap… they STILL HEAL.

If you can’t figure out how to bring more to a situation with 4 attunements and 20 weapon skills Elementalist probably isn’t the class for you in the first place. But if you can weave the elements and damage, CC, withstand, and heal as needed the prospect of being a mono-healer ought to look pretty kitten dull even with the shiny new FX. (and you can do it all without the stupid pet AI….)

Well, I know, but the nature of the class (attunements) is preventing the spec from becoming something somewhat refreshing in terms of gameplay. I pretty much wanted to see more focused roles with Tempest. Chronomancers for instance, got a particular buff, I did believe eles would have it to differentiate from the base class, but they’re still playing around the very same scheme we always had, we’re just delivering the effects from a different angle. It doesn’t feel different at all.

There was a good suggestion in the tempest changes thread about a volcanic themed spec that would do damage with every single attunement. You could have a 2-handed weapon that gives you the set of spells for this. A good example of an ability for such a spec was noxious water from volcanism that inflicts damage in addition to poison.

It is very possible to make elite specs that have a singular focus with the ele. However, it requires a 2-handed weapon or at least a main hand. I can’t see an off hand having such major influence on the spec.

Tempest was supposed to be a Support Spec but then they nerfed its best Support Skill because D/D Cele Ele is too strong, so all other Eles must sacrifice.

At the end of the day, they are going to have to make serious changes to the gameplay for a spec like druid to be useful.

Right now, I can see them having a place in WvW zergs, but not as a replacement to elementalists. They don’t have the water fields or hard cc or damage potential. Their entire spec is basically limited group healing and soft cc.

In PvP, I don’t know. I think you have to see the new traits before you can make a judgement call on being a viable support bunker.

In PvE, there is currently nothing in the game that requires this to exist.

Ganathar.4956:

To be fair druids might be able to make some sort of hybrid build out of druid. After all they can take 2 additional trait lines and they can take a 2nd weapon as well, or even replace staff if they are feeling like experimenting.

I don’t see them becoming as versatile as an ele but they may be able to provide something else besides healing if they build for it. It depends on the balance changes that will come and on the practical application of these experimental builds. It’s quite difficult to predict if druid can work in different ways and I look forward to trying this.

Already done, come take a peek .

That’s why I specified heal-speced Druid, because you can thread the needle avoiding healing traits to set them up as a CC/bleeder. But even with the Avatar Mode up their sleeve, they still aren’t going to have Elementalist-grade situational adaptability – more like locked in Air/can pop into Water for emergencies.

Main thing is class vs. class balance takes place in the land of confidential metrics gathering. It’s literally not our problem because we never get more than the faintest glimpse of what going on across millions of accounts. Down here in the trenches its about leveraging what we’ve got and making sure that as they nudge all classes towards a baseline we don’t loose our unique character or fun.

Because the secret of good game design is making everyone feel awesome while performing at a completely average level.

One thing to note is that water fields sometimes disrupt fire fields, and being able to healing on a constant basis without screwing fire field blasting is sure a plus.

Nike.2631:

In what content over the last 3 years have you ever been called on to do nothing but heal? Elementalist has always been, and has always excelled as a class that can shift roles on the fly mid-combat. A heal-speced Druid heals… and if they use their on the fly role swap… they STILL HEAL.

If you can’t figure out how to bring more to a situation with 4 attunements and 20 weapon skills Elementalist probably isn’t the class for you in the first place. But if you can weave the elements and damage, CC, withstand, and heal as needed the prospect of being a mono-healer ought to look pretty kitten dull even with the shiny new FX. (and you can do it all without the stupid pet AI….)

TBH Druids will end up going Celestial.

Healbots will go Celestial. Aggressive Healers are probably going Zealot. Mad-Seed and other non-healers will tend towards condi-bunker stats.

TBH if you set it up right D/D Ele can heal almost as good as Tempest and bring way more to the table. As Nike indicated, Elementalist is about being able to do more than one thing (hell you can still drop water fields full Zerker) and the base Elementalist (damage, heal, boons, etc) simply does everything better than the Tempest.

You don’t need a Druid to realize what an inferior creation Tempest is.

Most of druids healing is melee range yet they got a 1,200 ranged wepon it simply dose not fit. You will see durid need to run in melee range to get the most of its healing but a major part of the healing effect the staff just dose not work well in that close it seems. Tempest is a dagger main class with the chose of going off hand of dagger forces or wh as needed (dmg def or support in that order.)
I do not think druid is going to be that all in healing build but more of a dmg build that has a lot of self heal to keep it self going. So a cavs/zelots build mostly with GS and staff.

Most of druids healing is ranged and they got a 1,200 ranged wepon it simply dose fit perfectly. You will see durid dosent need to run in melee range to get the most of its healing unlke tepest. Tempest is a dagger main class with the chose of going off hand of dagger forces or wh as needed (dmg def or support in that order.)
I thnk druid is going to be fully healing build which is fantastic.

rotten.9753:

Most of druids healing is ranged and they got a 1,200 ranged wepon it simply dose fit perfectly. You will see durid dosent need to run in melee range to get the most of its healing unlke tepest. Tempest is a dagger main class with the chose of going off hand of dagger forces or wh as needed (dmg def or support in that order.)
I thnk druid is going to be fully healing build which is fantastic.

Most of ranger healing is 240-300 only a few skills are 1,200 mostly staff.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-glyph-utility-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-celestial-avatar-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-traits1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-ranger-staff-skills1.jpg
All of its utility are on 300 ranged non ground target. All of its line effects are 240-300 ranges to get real use out of them. Only staff skills and most of the F1 effects are 1,200 but even they do not fit the other effects. Its like druide is 2 different classes that are pushed together.
Tempest fills its roll as a melee tankly support a lot better because its off hand is more class defining then the tempest main hand for the ele type of set up. So most of ele healing is close ranged the main reason why staff healing support ele never worked well and why d/x worked better at it.

Jski.6180:

Most of ranger healing is 240-300 only a few skills are 1,200 mostly staff.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-glyph-utility-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-celestial-avatar-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-traits1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-ranger-staff-skills1.jpg
All of its utility are on 300 ranged non ground target. All of its line effects are 240-300 ranges to get real use out of them. Only staff skills and most of the F1 effects are 1,200 but even they do not fit the other effects. Its like druide is 2 different classes that are pushed together.
Tempest fills its roll as a melee tankly support a lot better because its off hand is more class defining then the tempest main hand for the ele type of set up. So most of ele healing is close ranged the main reason why staff healing support ele never worked well and why d/x worked better at it.

Most of the heling comes from celestal avatr 1-2 skills and staff 1-3 which are 1200 range. SOrry but most of healing is 1200 range.

Well it’s like Ventari revenant or guardian they becomming second zone healers now. Druid is by far the best healer and was designed for that. But, with Tempest and Guardian you have something that druid didn’t have: boons. Warhorn skills are a bit more agressive than druid skills too with dammages and conditions. Moreover Guardian and elementalist are more supportives too helping with dammages and condi when druid is exclusivly healling.

While Druid brings healing, it does not bring any form of mitigation to the party or zerg. Tempest with Earth talent Elemental Shielding mixed with Tempestuous aria grants, on shout, Protection for 4 secs, 2 stacks of might for 12 secs, Aura based on shout, Weakness to Enemies in range and Healing for about 1500 on full healing setup. Water attunement camping would allow a party of 5 to have a permanent buff that ticks for 700 hp a sec if Soothing mists GM is taken. Overload water burst heals for well over 10k in 4 secs. Warhorn 5 to Dagger 3 combo is like 7k total over the length of the globe. Druid is going to have to bring at least TRIPLE the healing capabilities to overcome the fact that Tempest also brings a TON of utility for mitigation and healing.

Build i am basing off of: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFEQJBIhdSfJ05AWhJ4fJwhJWEBM306bNvSEB2AZxhAwAIBC-T1xDABMcCAIUJYvq/80+DXp8DP9AA8AAIFgf7tA-w
Take note of the Outgoing healing while calculating heals. At peak amount (full Sigil) thats a 47.5% boost in outgoing healing. Have a nice day Ele’s and Rejoice, your still op!

You realise you compare an ele in full healing gear against a druid with no gear?

Also, swap tempest spec for arcane, dagger/warhorn for staff and the healing capabilities are the same if not stronger. You’ll bring about 80% protection uptime without using weak utilities and you won’t be forced to camp water.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Most of ranger healing is 240-300 only a few skills are 1,200 mostly staff.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-glyph-utility-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-celestial-avatar-skills1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-druid-traits1.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-ranger-staff-skills1.jpg
All of its utility are on 300 ranged non ground target. All of its line effects are 240-300 ranges to get real use out of them. Only staff skills and most of the F1 effects are 1,200 but even they do not fit the other effects. Its like druide is 2 different classes that are pushed together.
Tempest fills its roll as a melee tankly support a lot better because its off hand is more class defining then the tempest main hand for the ele type of set up. So most of ele healing is close ranged the main reason why staff healing support ele never worked well and why d/x worked better at it.

Most of the heling comes from celestal avatr 1-2 skills and staff 1-3 which are 1200 range. SOrry but most of healing is 1200 range.

Most of its healing is from its line not from its staff or even its 1 and 2 skill the only 1,200 ranges in its F1 skill. You realy do not understand healing in gw2.

rotten.9753:

Also, swap tempest spec for arcane, dagger/warhorn for staff and the healing capabilities are the same if not stronger. You’ll bring about 80% protection uptime without using weak utilities and you won’t be forced to camp water.

You know you can run arcane with tempest right? So if you need it then you can run it and push the healing amount even more as a tempest then you could as an ele. If you go earth you can have 100% protection up time that is very hard to strip vs longer but less protection activation making it much easier to strip.

Jski.6180:

You know you can run arcane with tempest right? So if you need it then you can run it and push the healing amount even more as a tempest then you could as an ele. If you go earth you can have 100% protection up time that is very hard to strip vs longer but less protection activation making it much easier to strip.

You know arcane and tempest spec lines are anti-thesis?

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

You know you can run arcane with tempest right? So if you need it then you can run it and push the healing amount even more as a tempest then you could as an ele. If you go earth you can have 100% protection up time that is very hard to strip vs longer but less protection activation making it much easier to strip.

You know arcane and tempest spec lines are anti-thesis?

Its no becuse arcane effects the cd of overloads.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

You know you can run arcane with tempest right? So if you need it then you can run it and push the healing amount even more as a tempest then you could as an ele. If you go earth you can have 100% protection up time that is very hard to strip vs longer but less protection activation making it much easier to strip.

You know arcane and tempest spec lines are anti-thesis?

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Alekt.5803:

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Of course they are. You can trait elemental shielding with shouts but the amount of protection is laughable. Instead, you could trait elemental attunement and spend in earth /water as low time as possible to give boons as often as possible. I’m not sure how anyone can neglect that. You cannot trait both water and tempest and claim how much healing you have because in order to maximise you’d have to swap as often as possible and overload as often as possible.

rotten.9753:

Alekt.5803:

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Of course they are. You can trait elemental shielding with shouts but the amount of protection is laughable. Instead, you could trait elemental attunement and spend in earth /water as low time as possible to give boons as often as possible. I’m not sure how anyone can neglect that. You cannot trait both water and tempest and claim how much healing you have because in order to maximise you’d have to swap as often as possible and overload as often as possible.

Arcane reduces the cooldown after overloading. But if you feel like giving up on Elemental Attunement, your call.

Alekt.5803:

rotten.9753:

Alekt.5803:

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Of course they are. You can trait elemental shielding with shouts but the amount of protection is laughable. Instead, you could trait elemental attunement and spend in earth /water as low time as possible to give boons as often as possible. I’m not sure how anyone can neglect that. You cannot trait both water and tempest and claim how much healing you have because in order to maximise you’d have to swap as often as possible and overload as often as possible.

Arcane reduces the cooldown after overloading. But if you feel like giving up on Elemental Attunement, your call.

That’s like never worth it.

rotten.9753:

Alekt.5803:

No they are not. I know you want to tell me about how you have to stay in an attunement for Tempest and Arcane rewards you to swap.

Of course they are. You can trait elemental shielding with shouts but the amount of protection is laughable. Instead, you could trait elemental attunement and spend in earth /water as low time as possible to give boons as often as possible. I’m not sure how anyone can neglect that. You cannot trait both water and tempest and claim how much healing you have because in order to maximise you’d have to swap as often as possible and overload as often as possible.

They are more complement then counter more so then the atuments line are for each other (as in arcain and tempest lines work together better then water and fire). Its hard to get the most out of an atument with out saying in it for 5 sec due to all the casting times and after casting animations ele has. So being in one atument for 5 sec not that big of a deal or even odd when you look at using ele for more then a faces rolling class.
If you use overload with water you cut down on your healing with the tempest healing build. That the trick behind GW2 healing you burn your big healing effects when you need them not all the time. So a tempest heals just as well in water as an ele healing set up but they have the abitly to push the healing in water higher when it is needed but at the same time tempest dose not need to be in water to heal where ele dose. This type of healing is why water field combos work so well. You do not blast water endlessly you blast them as needed due to the ebbs of flow of a fight.

This seems to be the aim of the tempest class not to always use your overloads or atument swap right when they come off of cd but to realy time them out and use them as needed. I much higher skill play then the current ele who must swap at soon as they can regardless what is going on in a fight. So ele is less about fighting players and more about fighting cd or your atuments and skills.

I wonder what will you do for 5s in water attunement.

rotten.9753:

I wonder what will you do for 5s in water attunement.

Auto attk more then 2 times? Or even better use more then 1 skill before get out of it.

Jski.6180:

Its hard to get the most out of an atument with out saying in it for 5 sec due to all the casting times and after casting animations ele has. So being in one atument for 5 sec not that big of a deal or even odd when you look at using ele for more then a faces rolling class.

It’s actually not hard at all, since, excluding auto attacks, it is mathematically possible to blow all the skills (which is the very definition of face rolling elementalist) in all the attunements in under 5 seconds except for earth attunement with an off hand dagger.

If you are using your abilities situationally and as needed, you won’t ever spend 5 seconds in an attunement (except for maybe offhand dagger when you combo 4 and 5).

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Its hard to get the most out of an atument with out saying in it for 5 sec due to all the casting times and after casting animations ele has. So being in one atument for 5 sec not that big of a deal or even odd when you look at using ele for more then a faces rolling class.

It’s actually not hard at all, since, excluding auto attacks, it is mathematically possible to blow all the skills (which is the very definition of face rolling elementalist) in all the attunements in under 5 seconds except for earth attunement with an off hand dagger.

If you are using your abilities situationally and as needed, you won’t ever spend 5 seconds in an attunement (except for maybe offhand dagger when you combo 4 and 5).

If you swap into an atument just for one skill your swapping to that atument is simply not worth it beyond the on swap effect.

Jski.6180:

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Its hard to get the most out of an atument with out saying in it for 5 sec due to all the casting times and after casting animations ele has. So being in one atument for 5 sec not that big of a deal or even odd when you look at using ele for more then a faces rolling class.

It’s actually not hard at all, since, excluding auto attacks, it is mathematically possible to blow all the skills (which is the very definition of face rolling elementalist) in all the attunements in under 5 seconds except for earth attunement with an off hand dagger.

If you are using your abilities situationally and as needed, you won’t ever spend 5 seconds in an attunement (except for maybe offhand dagger when you combo 4 and 5).

If you swap into an atument just for one skill your swapping to that atument is simply not worth it beyond the on swap effect.

No it is very worth it, because most of the powerful skills have cooldown times that exceed the attunement recharge rate.

Swapping into water to only use big water to sustain a zerg and then swapping into air to only use static field on the tail is a very worthwhole attunement swap.

Swapping into water to use small water and then also using big water so your attunement swap is “worth it” will kill a zerg.

Same goes for PvP. I’ll swap into Earth only for stoneheart and protection to absorb a burst and maybe only use wall or reflect.

I can probably think of another half a dozen situations where only using one skill after an attunement swap is the right call if I was willing to invest the time.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Its hard to get the most out of an atument with out saying in it for 5 sec due to all the casting times and after casting animations ele has. So being in one atument for 5 sec not that big of a deal or even odd when you look at using ele for more then a faces rolling class.

It’s actually not hard at all, since, excluding auto attacks, it is mathematically possible to blow all the skills (which is the very definition of face rolling elementalist) in all the attunements in under 5 seconds except for earth attunement with an off hand dagger.

If you are using your abilities situationally and as needed, you won’t ever spend 5 seconds in an attunement (except for maybe offhand dagger when you combo 4 and 5).

If you swap into an atument just for one skill your swapping to that atument is simply not worth it beyond the on swap effect.

No it is very worth it, because most of the powerful skills have cooldown times that exceed the attunement recharge rate.

Swapping into water to only use big water to sustain a zerg and then swapping into air to only use static field on the tail is a very worthwhole attunement swap.

Swapping into water to use small water and then also using big water so your attunement swap is “worth it” will kill a zerg.

Same goes for PvP. I’ll swap into Earth only for stoneheart and protection to absorb a burst and maybe only use wall or reflect.

I can probably think of another half a dozen situations where only using one skill after an attunement swap is the right call if I was willing to invest the time.

They do have long cd but they also have long cast times. Ele mostly d/d ele is more of a cd game its all about timing its not about reaction to what the other person is doing as much. That why its so easy to counter ele becuse its rotation is very predicable. Tempest is more about reacting to what they other person is doing due to higher risk of skills use. A tempest simply dose not use ability as soon as they go off of cd like an ele dose making it a very different game play AND class type. If you wanted tempest to be just like ele in its swap then i do not get why you and others would say that tempest was not different.

Jski.6180:

They do have long cd but they also have long cast times. Ele mostly d/d ele is more of a cd game its all about timing its not about reaction to what the other person is doing as much. That why its so easy to counter ele becuse its rotation is very predicable. Tempest is more about reacting to what they other person is doing due to higher risk of skills use. A tempest simply dose not use ability as soon as they go off of cd like an ele dose making it a very different game play AND class type. If you wanted tempest to be just like ele in its swap then i do not get why you and others would say that tempest was not different.

I am beginning to find engaging in discourse with you, Jski, to be very boring, because not only is this response completely irrelevant to the inaccurate information I was refuting here, I am going to have to repeat myself.

Those “long cast times”, excluding auto attacks, if you add them all up, will not total 5 seconds except for offhand earth dagger, particularly when you factor in the fact that you can swap attunements during those “long cast times”. Therefore, it is not by any objective means “hard” to stay in an attunement for less than 5 seconds and therefore, the premise of your previous arguments was wrong.

Nor does the current state of gameplay lead to an elementalist just “using any ability when it is off cooldown”. Abilties are used situationally to react to certain situations. I have provided examples of where swapping into an attunement to only use one or even no abilities is a situationally correct and smart move to make. Therefore, this notion you have that tempest will somehow have a different playstyle due to them being situationally reactive as opposed to “using any abiliity when it comes off cooldown” is also false.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

They do have long cd but they also have long cast times. Ele mostly d/d ele is more of a cd game its all about timing its not about reaction to what the other person is doing as much. That why its so easy to counter ele becuse its rotation is very predicable. Tempest is more about reacting to what they other person is doing due to higher risk of skills use. A tempest simply dose not use ability as soon as they go off of cd like an ele dose making it a very different game play AND class type. If you wanted tempest to be just like ele in its swap then i do not get why you and others would say that tempest was not different.

I am beginning to find engaging in discourse with you, Jski, to be very boring, because not only is this response completely irrelevant to the inaccurate information I was refuting here, I am going to have to repeat myself.

Those “long cast times”, excluding auto attacks, if you add them all up, will not total 5 seconds except for offhand earth dagger, particularly when you factor in the fact that you can swap attunements during those “long cast times”. Therefore, it is not by any objective means “hard” to stay in an attunement for less than 5 seconds and therefore, the premise of your previous arguments was wrong.

Nor does the current state of gameplay lead to an elementalist just “using any ability when it is off cooldown”. Abilties are used situationally to react to certain situations. I have provided examples of where swapping into an attunement to only use one or even no abilities is a situationally correct and smart move to make. Therefore, this notion you have that tempest will somehow have a different playstyle due to them being situationally reactive as opposed to “using any abiliity when it comes off cooldown” is also false.

Well your saying the same thing over and over and your not talking any thing others are saying in account. Your not realy talking to ppl your more or less talking to your self and you only want to “see” other ppl who are like minded to post. In a lot of ways your own action are making things boring.

At the end of the day tempest is a different class then ele and it will play different. If you do not wish to wait that 5 sec for an big effect then dont there nothing locked in stone that makes you do this nor is there nothing in the game that makes your ele play as a tempest. Not every one going to like it and they realy should not look to like every elite spec becuse they are simply a different type of play for the class. If you like ele keep playing it you lose nothing from ele becuse there the abitly to go tempest.

Why are you so “hell bent” on making tempest something you like when it seems ele IS already something that you like? Its starting to sound like ppl are going after tempest not becuse they want to play tempest but simply becuse they do not want to play ele any more or at least just want new things for the ele and not the elite spec. I do not think you like ele any more.

Jski.6180:

Why are you so “hell bent” on making tempest something you like when it seems ele IS already something that you like? Its starting to sound like ppl are going after tempest not becuse they want to play tempest but simply becuse they do not want to play ele any more or at least just want new things for the ele and not the elite spec. I do not think you like ele any more.

I’m not hell bent on anything, man. Nor am I arguing against tempest at the moment. You are arguing “for” tempest, but your arguments to support tempest are based on misleading information.

You can’t make a statement that says “tempest is good, because it’s already really hard to swap out of an attunement in less than 5 seconds”. No, it’s not hard at all. You can do it, based on cast times alone, for nearly all the attunements. It’s also less true, based on personal experience, because the scenarios where you will blow all your skills in one swap are few in number. Based on this alone, staying in attunement for 5 seconds to get an overload is a con more than it is a pro and not negated by people “staying in attunements for 5 seconds all the time already”

In response to that, you ignore the math on the weapon skill issue and respond with “If you only use one skill in a swap, it is a waste of an attunement swap”. That is a horribly inaccurate statement and I provided solid examples which show how it’s not a waste and actually essential to play an elementalist correctly.

In response to that, you ignored all of that and launched into a response about how tempest is going to be different than elementalist because you have to think about what skills use when instead of just blowing all of them at once.

I don’t know who these elementalists are that just faceroll their keyboard on attunement swap. I don’t play that way. None of the elementalists in my guild play that way. I provided scenarios in the previous post that show when it’s essential to not play that way.

So…look, if you want to be a tempest fan boy, please, go ahead. But this isn’t a billboard for you to blast out a bunch of bullkitten statements about how tempest is going to be awesome, because of false statements about current elementalist gameplay. You are almost just making stuff up to talk up the tempest class. People actually read these forums to learn more about the class and the game which is why I think it’s worthwhile to argue.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Why are you so “hell bent” on making tempest something you like when it seems ele IS already something that you like? Its starting to sound like ppl are going after tempest not becuse they want to play tempest but simply becuse they do not want to play ele any more or at least just want new things for the ele and not the elite spec. I do not think you like ele any more.

I’m not hell bent on anything, man. Nor am I arguing against tempest at the moment. You are arguing “for” tempest, but your arguments to support tempest are based on misleading information.

You can’t make a statement that says “tempest is good, because it’s already really hard to swap out of an attunement in less than 5 seconds”. No, it’s not hard at all. You can do it, based on cast times alone, for nearly all the attunements. It’s also less true, based on personal experience, because the scenarios where you will blow all your skills in one swap are few in number. Based on this alone, staying in attunement for 5 seconds to get an overload is a con more than it is a pro and not negated by people “staying in attunements for 5 seconds all the time already”

In response to that, you ignore the math on the weapon skill issue and respond with “If you only use one skill in a swap, it is a waste of an attunement swap”. That is a horribly inaccurate statement and I provided solid examples which show how it’s not a waste and actually essential to play an elementalist correctly.

In response to that, you ignored all of that and launched into a response about how tempest is going to be different than elementalist because you have to think about what skills use when instead of just blowing all of them at once.

I don’t know who these elementalists are that just faceroll their keyboard on attunement swap. I don’t play that way. None of the elementalists in my guild play that way. I provided scenarios in the previous post that show when it’s essential to not play that way.

So…look, if you want to be a tempest fan boy, please, go ahead. But this isn’t a billboard for you to blast out a bunch of bullkitten statements about how tempest is going to be awesome, because of false statements about current elementalist gameplay. You are almost just making stuff up to talk up the tempest class. People actually read these forums to learn more about the class and the game which is why I think it’s worthwhile to argue.

So why are you posting on “druid renders Tempest useless for healing” becuse this IS about tempest being attked for its healing out put vs a druid not so much on its effectiveness on its atument swap timing.

My point is the tempest class to be effective you do not need to have perfidy swapping vs cd when it comes to healing of your group. Its not misinformation its just saying tempest is not ele.

Jski.6180:

My point is the tempest class to be effective you do not need to have perfidy swapping vs cd when it comes to healing of your group. Its not misinformation its just saying tempest is not ele.

And the point everyone else but you seems to get is that it’s more rewarding to play a base Elementalist that swaps constantly than the Tempest that doesn’t need to swap.

You keep focusing on healing. Okay, that’s great. Except you’re focusing on a single tree in a forest. Your healing is 20% higher (wow this tree is pretty great!), but you suddenly lost 80% of your damage (OH GOD THE REST OF THIS PLACE IS ON FIRE).

Different but equal is great. Different but worse is not.

Kodiak.3281:

Jski.6180:

My point is the tempest class to be effective you do not need to have perfidy swapping vs cd when it comes to healing of your group. Its not misinformation its just saying tempest is not ele.

And the point everyone else but you seems to get is that it’s more rewarding to play a base Elementalist that swaps constantly than the Tempest that doesn’t need to swap.

You keep focusing on healing. Okay, that’s great. Except you’re focusing on a single tree in a forest. Your healing is 20% higher (wow this tree is pretty great!), but you suddenly lost 80% of your damage (OH GOD THE REST OF THIS PLACE IS ON FIRE).

Different but equal is great. Different but worse is not.

Well d/d ele could never full heal a group it was close but tempest dose push it to being able to heal a full group as needed (its great to heal ppl at 100% hp but over all its pointless). Tempest can heal just like d/d in its passive and maxing swaps but they can also burst heal as needed but its pointless to bust heal if its not needed.

That IS the ideal of elite spec to specialized in a type of game play at the cost of others. If you do not want to play it that ok and if you think ele still better that ok too but do not forces others to must play the way you think. Its just as bad as zerk only in pve or your kicked from the pt.

Not so relevant but some times trees need to burn.

Yes, the D/D ele could full heal a group. The D/D actually heals more efficiently than Tempest passively because it can output all it’s healing in a shorter period and then move on to doing other productive things.

The idea of Specializations is to create a role that doesn’t already exist on the base class. A support role has existed since launch for the Elementalist and is one of the oldest Elementalist builds and roles. There are a number of Elementalist existing builds that provide boons, healing and damage. Please do not confuse pointing out how the Tempest is factually worse at everything the Base Elementalist already does as telling people how to play.

I also see that metaphor went over your head. Instead I will use a picture to maybe point things out.

Kodiak.3281:

Yes, the D/D ele could full heal a group. The D/D actually heals more efficiently than Tempest passively because it can output all it’s healing in a shorter period and then move on to doing other productive things.

The idea of Specializations is to create a role that doesn’t already exist on the base class. A support role has existed since launch for the Elementalist and is one of the oldest Elementalist builds and roles. There are a number of Elementalist existing builds that provide boons, healing and damage. Please do not confuse pointing out how the Tempest is factually worse at everything the Base Elementalist already does as telling people how to play.

I also see that metaphor went over your head. Instead I will use a picture to maybe point things out.

D/d could not solo heal a group and it dose not even get close to out healing an tempest lol.
Not sure what roll there is that ele cant fill do you know one?
Tempest is more able to auras support heal support oddly condition dmg better then ele.
Your pic more about losing something or something being destroyed and ele not by having tempest added so your not making a real relevant point.

I still do not get where are these all in healing d/d boon support ele builds that are better then tempest?

D/D could solo heal a group. Tempest heals for roughly 20% more than a base D/D with far more time spent in water in order to use Overload.

There are many roles Elementalists lack. I encourage you to seek out any of the numerous threads on the topic as there are literally too many suggestions and ideas to list here.

Tempest is able to generate more auras, but without changes this doesn’t really mean much benefit as Aura traits are already spread across 4 separate lines in addition to Tempest.

The picture is very simple. I suppose that’s on me because of the previous metaphor went over your head I should have expected this one as well.

No one plays healing D/D because healing based builds are terrible in current game play.

Kodiak.3281:

D/D could solo heal a group. Tempest heals for roughly 20% more than a base D/D with far more time spent in water in order to use Overload.

There are many roles Elementalists lack. I encourage you to seek out any of the numerous threads on the topic as there are literally too many suggestions and ideas to list here.

Tempest is able to generate more auras, but without changes this doesn’t really mean much benefit as Aura traits are already spread across 4 separate lines in addition to Tempest.

The picture is very simple. I suppose that’s on me because of the previous metaphor went over your head I should have expected this one as well.

No one plays healing D/D because healing based builds are terrible in current game play.

So aura heals from both wepon overloads and utility shouts on-top of the aoe heal skill only account for +20%? Are you sure your taking in account for playing d/x tempest as an d/d ele when you do not need that high burst heal becuse you do not need to overloaded if ppl are at full hp.

Idk why you keep arguing for Tempest being a Healer. If I need someone to Heal my team, I’ll probably take a Herald for +50% Boon Duration and like 15-30 seconds of Projectile Destruction when necessary along with good healing AND still maintaining good DPS or I’ll take a Druid to completely surpass your own Healing while also bringing a bunch of control options.