Guild Wars 2

Palindrome.8904:

Cherokeewill.7504:

Vesuvius.9874:

Azel.4786:

And pardon me for not being excited about having to sit in an attunment for X amount of time, then having to channel that attunement for 2,5s-5s hoping no one will interrupt me with the insane amount of interrupts in game, and then, if it works or if it doesn’t, being locked out from that attunement for 15s-20s.

Sure will love when I need to heal and am locked out of water or when I need to do damage and will be locked out of fire / air, sounds super!

I think you just described a play style that’s different from the current norm. Isn’t that what ANET “promised” ?

Exactly. Elementalists, with the very few exceptions of channeled skills, are a class that requires constant movement, especially with melee range weapons. The overcharge play style puts huge cooldowns on 25% of an elementalists skills and roots them in place for long periods of time as well. This is almost like the Revenant’s energy management component and a completely different playstyle then we currently have.

Edit – Had a random kitten in my post that was funny but made sentence nonsensical.

Please re-read the article. You aren’t rooted when overcharging. In fact, there is even a trait specified that gives you super speed when channeling it. It’s possible that these channels require significant movement and positioning to be useful.

What? I saw the grant swiftness one (33% movement speed) but nothing there says superspeed while channeling.

And yes, it seems you can move around when channeling and the focus seems positioning, but the faults I pointed out above still persist regardless. Staying in one attunement for X seconds (to be able to begin channeling) + the 2,5s-5s channel time is terrible with the current stuff we have from core, unless you are planning to camp fire as a staff ele, then maybe.

Morfedel.4165:

Conncept.7638:

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, I will log in now and protest with all my shouts I have on my Elementalist!

I suppose we are completely ignoring the fact that the Overcharged Attunements that are a thing will lock you out of said attunement for x amount of time? That will very much change how the Elementalists is played, since you can just go around aimlessly changing attunements with that and so on.

That’s not a new mechanic though, a new direction, a new anything really. It’s just a more extreme version of our existing PBAoE damage and support mechanics found on DD. They basically took what we had, made the strengths stronger per attunement and the weaknesses weaker per attunement, then handed it back to us claiming its ‘new’ when it isn’t.

That said, DD is fun, this could be fun, but ‘new’, it is not. And until we get specifics, not only on what they are adding with the Tempest and how it will work, but on what they are changing on the base elementalst mainhands, I will withhold final judgement.

Chronomancers got a new shatter. Usingthe above logic you could say the same. Of anyof them really.

What? No, you can’t say anything similar of the chronomancer.

Shatters are a group of mechanics, under a single ability type, do not confuse an arbitrary label with a game mechanic. Dozens of traits and abilities which the base mesmer has, already affect shatters, and will affect the new mechanic because it shares the shatter ability type with existing mechanics. Also, it provides a new mechanism for play, a mechanic, that neither the previous shatters nor any ability of the core mesmer provides.

Most importantly, it isn’t just bigger effects for situationally higher CDs, which is something we already SUFFER through with RTL, and most certainly not a new mechanic, let alone an overly welcomed one.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Conncept.7638:

That’s not a new mechanic though, a new direction, a new anything really. It’s just a more extreme version of our existing PBAoE damage and support mechanics found on DD. They basically took what we had, made the strengths stronger per attunement and the weaknesses weaker per attunement, then handed it back to us claiming its ‘new’ when it isn’t.

Flat out lies. It is the very definition of a new mechanic; a new weapon, and a way of utilizing that weapon that no other Elementalist weapon in the game does.

And here folks is a prime example of inverse ignorance, a malady commonly found on the internet, wherein a person can know more about something because they know nothing about it, because, obviously, if you don’t even know the breadth or depth of the subject, let alone the actual content, it must be small, simple, and easy, right? Like arguing a subject they know so little about they don’t even know what the word mechanic means in context of the argument.

nearlight.3064:

I play mesmer and it’s very easy to get a mantra charge off in a fight without stealth, since you shouldn’t get CCed unless you’re being directly focus fired, and even then you have the bonus 600 armor and phase retreat to help you. I works fine. I play the class so I know. And yes you will have to use positioning to recharge them in combat alot, especially with the mantra heal skill.

Elementalists should be fine because cele eles are among the last class to get focus fired in a teamfight because their sustain is so high. If you and your team are any good at teamfights charging the overload will be quite easy. I have full confine that it will work well in practice because charging mantras in combat works out so easily.

Do you know where the elementalist sustain comes from? It comes from high protection uptime and high amount of healing from Signet of Renewal, Soothing Mist, Water attune swapping and other healing skills – it does not come from a buff to toughness like mesmer mantra channeling.

Elementalist are getting protection with that minor trait, sure, but that is just a minor piece of their sustain – that can even be stripped away with a boon removal.

You still do not heal from Signet of Renewal,
Soothing mist is also unlikely if not in water (due to the time you need to be in an attunement to begin channeling)
Unless water channel you don’t get healing from water attune swapping or other healing skills while you channel.

Also, mesmer preparing mantras is a LOT different than how elementalist will need to do it:

- Mesmer tries to go for cover and stay out of the tick of the fight, because once they are done channeling they can use the mantra at the time it is most convenient.

- Elementalist will need to stay in the tick of the fight because: (a) that is how you will buff your allies; and (b) once the channel is over the effect stays rooted – i.e., if you move to the fight only when channel is over congrats, you discarded your overload for nothing.

Completely different mindset in using the ability.

Further, if you overload water and swap out, congrats for 15s you are locked out of a lot of healing severely reducing your sustain and AoE heal abilities (oh and you have those today btw).

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

Cherokeewill.7504:

Vesuvius.9874:

Azel.4786:

And pardon me for not being excited about having to sit in an attunment for X amount of time, then having to channel that attunement for 2,5s-5s hoping no one will interrupt me with the insane amount of interrupts in game, and then, if it works or if it doesn’t, being locked out from that attunement for 15s-20s.

Sure will love when I need to heal and am locked out of water or when I need to do damage and will be locked out of fire / air, sounds super!

I think you just described a play style that’s different from the current norm. Isn’t that what ANET “promised” ?

Exactly. Elementalists, with the very few exceptions of channeled skills, are a class that requires constant movement, especially with melee range weapons. The overcharge play style puts huge cooldowns on 25% of an elementalists skills and roots them in place for long periods of time as well. This is almost like the Revenant’s energy management component and a completely different playstyle then we currently have.

Edit – Had a random kitten in my post that was funny but made sentence nonsensical.

Please re-read the article. You aren’t rooted when overcharging. In fact, there is even a trait specified that gives you super speed when channeling it. It’s possible that these channels require significant movement and positioning to be useful.

What? I saw the grant swiftness one (33% movement speed) but nothing there says superspeed while channeling.

And yes, it seems you can move around when channeling and the focus seems positioning, but the faults I pointed out above still persist regardless. Staying in one attunement for X seconds (to be able to begin channeling) + the 2,5s-5s channel time is terrible with the current stuff we have from core, unless you are planning to camp fire as a staff ele, then maybe.

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

I think the concept behind tempest is good, but it is seriously hindered by the underlying problems of the class (reliance on water/arcana). The design seems like it wants to be dps-based, but doesn’t actually address the core problems that prevent a dps ele (especially melee) from existing in pvp. Eles defense is boons (esp prot) combined with heals to soak up damage and win through a brawl. In order to properly do that, eles need short-CD attunement swaps, especially because that sustain (boons, heals) is based on swapping and auto-attacks are pretty trash outside of lightning whip and fireball.

There appears to be some interesting synergy with fresh air, but a dps-build only really works with scepter – a ranged weapon that has PATHETIC auto-attacks. A dagger/X dps build is hilariously flawed, even with an OP focus.

Honestly, tempest will probably see play in water/arcana/tempest specs to take “Eye of the storm” if the CD is relatively short (compared to armor of earth) and Earthen Proxy to augment the redic. amount of prot. Perhaps one of the overloads will be OP and people will actually use them, but it will most likely end up being very situational (like popping the water one when getting very low in a teamfight, or earth to get mass-blinds when stuck in a 1v2).

In the end, I think it is going to be a lot of lost potential due to underlying problems with the class that result in bruiser-roles being the only ones truly viable (in pvp) and those being OP when going max-tank.

At least they are consistent with giving eles worthless elites.

The ranger trait Quick Draw only affects non-auto attacks, so I don’t see how this would affect autos. However, it would be kinda neat if it lowered cooldown for all skills used for like 2-3 seconds. THAT would be an elite. That, or it’s on a low cd… like 30s.

No confirmation for Song of Storms. :-(

Conncept.7638:

Morfedel.4165:

Conncept.7638:

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, I will log in now and protest with all my shouts I have on my Elementalist!

I suppose we are completely ignoring the fact that the Overcharged Attunements that are a thing will lock you out of said attunement for x amount of time? That will very much change how the Elementalists is played, since you can just go around aimlessly changing attunements with that and so on.

That’s not a new mechanic though, a new direction, a new anything really. It’s just a more extreme version of our existing PBAoE damage and support mechanics found on DD. They basically took what we had, made the strengths stronger per attunement and the weaknesses weaker per attunement, then handed it back to us claiming its ‘new’ when it isn’t.

That said, DD is fun, this could be fun, but ‘new’, it is not. And until we get specifics, not only on what they are adding with the Tempest and how it will work, but on what they are changing on the base elementalst mainhands, I will withhold final judgement.

Chronomancers got a new shatter. Usingthe above logic you could say the same. Of anyof them really.

What? No, you can’t say anything similar of the chronomancer.

Shatters are a group of mechanics, under a single ability type. Meaning that dozens of traits, and abilities, which the base mesmer has which affect shatters, will affect the new ability. Also, it provides a new mechanism for play, a mechanic, that neither the previous shatters nor any ability of the core mesmer provides.

Most importantly, it isn’t just bigger effects for situationally higher CDs, which is something we already SUFFER through with RTL, and most certainly not a new mechanic, let alone an overly welcomed one.

I don’t think the Mesmer skill is actually classed as a shatter. The recent update modified some trait text to specifically call out the f1-f4 skills as being affected. In other words, the new f5 is excluded from some such benefits.

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

The other leaked things seems to be promising, but I must agree that this elite desnt feel good enough:

I think a good designed skill should be allways be usefull, and only improved by correct use (placement, timing, gourp coordination etc…) …not only be usefull in those specific situations

Maybe it has additional effects beside that cd reduction too?
And for how long it would affect my allies, for example: I cast elite, then thief uses basilisk venom and it is already on 75% cd from the start? Then it could not be stacked that way with let’s say 4 eles use it does not equal basilisk having no cd at all.
Ele A use elite, Ele B use elite but has 75% cd already, Ele C use elite but also has 75% cd, Ele D use elite and as well 75% cd. In meantime previous eles have those couple seconds ticked + they could use other skills in meantime and have their cooldowns reduced also, so we will have to see how long is total cd of the shout.

Mesmer Mimic sounds stronger, but on the other hand it affects only utility skills making 1 to be “wasted” for mimic.

I think it will be very situational for small cooldown skills, can’t rly imagine using it for Glyph of Storms or Renewal, Conjured weapons, mist from or arcane shield. Maybe it will work out well with Atunement Overload or Wh skills, because atm it sounds like “oh nice” but based on what we know I would stick with fgs.

The effect of this elite feels to be really delayed in time, but if you need something right now it doesn’t offer much help imo. Either you have the fight planned or something goes wrong and messes up your “rotation” so that you forget about that reduced cooldown anyway xD

BlackBeard.2873:

There appears to be some interesting synergy with fresh air

I will be honest, why is there a synergy with fresh air?

I could understand if you didn’t have to sit in an attunement for a while to be able to begin channeling, but as currently shown, it just doesn’t seem to have that. Fresh Air is all about jumping back into Air, not camping it for a length of time to then be able to start doing lightning strikes similar to Glyph of Storms.

And yes, impressive how even in the elite specialization the elite skill was trash. It seems like that is an internal directive at ANET.

Vissarion.6509:

lucadiro.4519:

Why u all think that it will affect the skills your allies are using? For me its really more natural think the shout will affect the skills AFTER u had cast it. If it is not like this, arenanet srsly need to make it work in this way.
In this way u can even coordinate that without TS. A buff icon that say you that next skill u use will have CD reduced will be welcome.

I really think it has a lot of potential, at least in pvp. Surely 50% CD reduction would be really better

That’s what exactly everyone else is saying..

So most of the thing i was waiting for the new skills was the elite. Right now its the only class that i never use my elite cause i dont find them useful, i thought its a good chance to get something worthy of the slot and actually using it, but NO get this aoe shout that will reduce your next skill by 25%, so if u press it and use meteor shower u can use it again in 16 seconds instead of 20, or if u use lava font u can use it in 3 seconds intead of 4, so much potential..

No. People are assuming the shout will be affect the skills that allies are using in that moment. Im saying that is more natural think the shout will affect the next skill allies will use. In the first option the skills will be useless for your team mates, in the second if the usage is well coordinated can really be a solid skill for the team.
And i really prefere it at our other elite even in a selfish way. I dont dislike a armor of earth or a mist form on 45sec… And if the shout cooldw is 60 sec that mean u will ever benefit it on your cantrip. Maybe can also try to see if on glyph of renewal will be not bad. I mean if u are specced into air and u take the glyph CD reducer and the shout u can ress 3 people every 100sec…

There a lot of things in this elementalist specialization that scared me. But this élite its one of the few good thing i see. Well, we will see.

Azel.4786:

nearlight.3064:

I play mesmer and it’s very easy to get a mantra charge off in a fight without stealth, since you shouldn’t get CCed unless you’re being directly focus fired, and even then you have the bonus 600 armor and phase retreat to help you. I works fine. I play the class so I know. And yes you will have to use positioning to recharge them in combat alot, especially with the mantra heal skill.

Elementalists should be fine because cele eles are among the last class to get focus fired in a teamfight because their sustain is so high. If you and your team are any good at teamfights charging the overload will be quite easy. I have full confine that it will work well in practice because charging mantras in combat works out so easily.

Do you know where the elementalist sustain comes from? It comes from high protection uptime and high amount of healing from Signet of Renewal, Soothing Mist, Water attune swapping and other healing skills – it does not come from a buff to toughness like mesmer mantra channeling.

Elementalist are getting protection with that minor trait, sure, but that is just a minor piece of their sustain – that can even be stripped away with a boon removal.

You still do not heal from Signet of Renewal,
Soothing mist is also unlikely if not in water (due to the time you need to be in an attunement to begin channeling)
Unless water channel you don’t get healing from water attune swapping or other healing skills while you channel.

Also, mesmer preparing mantras is a LOT different than how elementalist will need to do it:

- Mesmer tries to go for cover and stay out of the tick of the fight, because once they are done channeling they can use the mantra at the time it is most convenient.

- Elementalist will need to stay in the tick of the fight because: (a) that is how you will buff your allies; and (b) once the channel is over the effect stays rooted – i.e., if you move to the fight only when channel is over congrats, you discarded your overload for nothing.

Completely different mindset in using the ability.

Further, if you overload water and swap out, congrats for 15s you are locked out of a lot of healing severely reducing your sustain and AoE heal abilities (oh and you have those today btw).

There’s also a trait that heals you per second during each tick of charging the overload so I think the loss of signet heal is fine. Your complaint about the differences between mesmer and Ele positioning in teamfights is valid though, but I think it would still work if you had someone else who can tank a point. Also you can LoS and change terrain pretty easily on many, if not most points in the game, so you wouldn’t have to completely peel out of a fight while channeling.

Anyway we’ll see when we get video footage of the skills. It looks powerful, and you can do normal rotation spam like you do now, until you find the need to channel for a huge effecr.

Man this expansion is going to be a historical disappointment :‘) not only are we getting names aimed at teenagers but animated characters blowing horns while running around, if that doesn’t attract sexual innuendos from said teenagers then i don’t know what will xD

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

It has been pointed out, reasonably, that elementalist can already do pretty much everything at least pretty well. So the ultimate outcome of the abilities should be less of a focus than the presentation/practice, imo. That said, it’s very reasonable to question the format given that we don’t know a lot. The last piece of the interview seemed interesting, as it hinted at a couple more skills. Possibly a water skill with an interesting effect if it connects (not sure what “Shock” is but it reads like it’s related?). Sand Squall sounds like AoE protection. There’s potential for some really fun play in that paragraph, but I won’t suggest you should hop on that and be happy until we see it all laid out.

You can definitely say elementalists do support well, but it is pretty restricted to might stacking, regen and fairly limited group condi cleanse (unless you take very specific water traits). We may get a weapon here that gives some fairly potent larger AoE support without requiring a specific trait line.

shouldn’t we really wait for tomorrow and Friday to pass judgment as players and fans?

johnnystorm.2954:

shouldn’t we really wait for tomorrow and Friday to pass judgment as players and fans?

Well, yeah, but the average online consumer (or at least average vocal one) is going to jump to conclusions in the presence of very incomplete information. Basically, people want to complain, so they will.

And the OP wonders why Anet doesn’t speak much.

Every person that misuses the word lie, that uses hyperbole to complain, that takes every single word literally, even when that’s not how language works, is part of the problem.

This is exactly why Anet doesn’t communicate more. You’ve got no one to blame but yourselves.

I see a new playstyle here. Frontline eles aren’t really all that common. It’s a new way to play the ele.

If you can’t see it, I don’t think the problem is Anet.

Palindrome.8904:

Conncept.7638:

Morfedel.4165:

Conncept.7638:

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, I will log in now and protest with all my shouts I have on my Elementalist!

I suppose we are completely ignoring the fact that the Overcharged Attunements that are a thing will lock you out of said attunement for x amount of time? That will very much change how the Elementalists is played, since you can just go around aimlessly changing attunements with that and so on.

That’s not a new mechanic though, a new direction, a new anything really. It’s just a more extreme version of our existing PBAoE damage and support mechanics found on DD. They basically took what we had, made the strengths stronger per attunement and the weaknesses weaker per attunement, then handed it back to us claiming its ‘new’ when it isn’t.

That said, DD is fun, this could be fun, but ‘new’, it is not. And until we get specifics, not only on what they are adding with the Tempest and how it will work, but on what they are changing on the base elementalst mainhands, I will withhold final judgement.

Chronomancers got a new shatter. Usingthe above logic you could say the same. Of anyof them really.

What? No, you can’t say anything similar of the chronomancer.

Shatters are a group of mechanics, under a single ability type. Meaning that dozens of traits, and abilities, which the base mesmer has which affect shatters, will affect the new ability. Also, it provides a new mechanism for play, a mechanic, that neither the previous shatters nor any ability of the core mesmer provides.

Most importantly, it isn’t just bigger effects for situationally higher CDs, which is something we already SUFFER through with RTL, and most certainly not a new mechanic, let alone an overly welcomed one.

I don’t think the Mesmer skill is actually classed as a shatter. The recent update modified some trait text to specifically call out the f1-f4 skills as being affected. In other words, the new f5 is excluded from some such benefits.

Are you sure about that? We know it shatters your illusions, because it gives you time on Continuum Split equal to the number of shatters. If they choose certain traits, and specify that these only work with shatters 1-4, that would make some sense for balance reasons. But I have a hard time believing they would just flat out take away the shatter ability type from it.

nearlight.3064:

There’s also a trait that heals you per second during each tick of charging the overload so I think the loss of signet heal is fine. Your complaint about the differences between mesmer and Ele positioning in teamfights is valid though, but I think it would still work if you had someone else who can tank a point. Also you can LoS and change terrain pretty easily on many, if not most points in the game, so you wouldn’t have to completely peel out of a fight while channeling.

Anyway we’ll see when we get video footage of the skills. It looks powerful, and you can do normal rotation spam like you do now, until you find the need to channel for a huge effecr.

You are right, there is a trait that let’s you heal. Needs to know if it will heal enough to compensate the lost sustain though.

But again, you can’t LoS and change terrain. Having someone to “cover the point” for you won’t work because you need to be on the point as well otherwise you are just using the ability to do a selfish buff – completely counter to the mechanic and we have better ways to do it today.

You have 2,5s – 5s time window in a channel to get back into the fight if you decide to step out to channel, meaning you either will need lightning flash to do it or you will need to take the Warrior’s hammer to the face – and to do so you need armor of earth – so likely, to channel, you need 2 cantrips on your utilities bar (little room for the shouts now).

And also, don’t forget, if you take tempest you lose out on another trait line, e.g., Fire. So your might stacking / fury stacking or blind spamming, etc. takes a hurt.

Don’t forget as well that in your idea of taking the tempest you are losing 3 minors and 1 Major to just have a better survivability when channeling, whereas today you use any of the 3 minors and 1 major of the trait lines almost all the time / within a very short time frame (oh and remember that the protection boon buff and the reduce the lockout of an attunement to 15s are also competing with that heal while channel).

Tempest right now is a ton of bad, the numbers will have to be really good to make it a worthwhile trade.

Palindrome.8904:

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

It has been pointed out, reasonably, that elementalist can already do pretty much everything at least pretty well. So the ultimate outcome of the abilities should be less of a focus than the presentation/practice, imo. That said, it’s very reasonable to question the format given that we don’t know a lot. The last piece of the interview seemed interesting, as it hinted at a couple more skills. Possibly a water skill with an interesting effect if it connects (not sure what “Shock” is but it reads like it’s related?). Sand Squall sounds like AoE protection. There’s potential for some really fun play in that paragraph, but I won’t suggest you should hop on that and be happy until we see it all laid out.

You can definitely say elementalists do support well, but it is pretty restricted to might stacking, regen and fairly limited group condi cleanse (unless you take very specific water traits). We may get a weapon here that gives some fairly potent larger AoE support without requiring a specific trait line.

Well we will require a specific trait line. Don’t forget to use the tempest stuff you need to spec into tempest, thus what is the difference in specing into water focusing on group support?

Sure now we can double the efficiency on our group support by taking 2 traits and dedicating them fully to that, but then what do you do alone? Run away?

And again, elementalist main build is a bruiser hybrid. It let’s you do a lot of stuff, but in no way it covers the room of dedicated specializations. And although you could argue that – exactly! it doesn’t cover a dedicated group support specialization – we have that already with staff and in melee we do have a good potential if we choose to focus more on the group in water trait line.

A group support was not the dedicated focus we needed, burst and condi focused were the ones we mostly needed.

I for one really wanted that our spec could have a Shortbow with an emphasis on single target DPS….

Vayne.8563:

Frontline eles aren’t really all that common. It’s a new way to play the ele.

If you can’t see it, I don’t think the problem is Anet.

Say that again????

Do you know that the most used weapon in PvP is the dagger? I hardly call that a long range weapon….

Just read another time the info about the new spec and it said the élite shout will affect THE NEXT skill your allies will use. So u can ping or u can say it in TS for use it in a smart way. Now all depends if the CD will be decent to say if it is useless or not.

Azel.4786:

BlackBeard.2873:

There appears to be some interesting synergy with fresh air

I will be honest, why is there a synergy with fresh air?

I could understand if you didn’t have to sit in an attunement for a while to be able to begin channeling, but as currently shown, it just doesn’t seem to have that. Fresh Air is all about jumping back into Air, not camping it for a length of time to then be able to start doing lightning strikes similar to Glyph of Storms.

And yes, impressive how even in the elite specialization the elite skill was trash. It seems like that is an internal directive at ANET.

When traveling between points, you are usually camping air for the +25% move-speed, so perhaps you can use the over-load at the start of fight for added burst, and again use it periodically in teamfights in between swaps to other attunements. It is hard to tell without knowing the EXACT timings and mechanics.

However, the BEST synergy would be some kind of tanky melee build, which is really hard to get a long channel off. It just seems so confused to me. This is probably why they had to take such a long break in specializations – even though they had these thematic concepts, and maybe even animations in mind, the class designers seem to be struggling to implement something fun and useful. This goes doubly for the ele dev, who we all know is completely lost in regards to designing the class.

Maybe dungeon-teams will have MORE fire-spamming staff eles, who now get ANOTHER way to dps without leaving fire AND can all share buffs for shorter-CD meteor showers.

In pvp, it is hard to see the use of this – perhaps in some troll comp with a bunch of warriors to get frequent god mode (rampage). -25% CD duration on ON skill just isn’t incredibly impactful for an elite ability, especially when people already have mimic for 100% reduction or the ranger trait for -33% CD, and those are rarely used as well.

Azel.4786:

Vayne.8563:

Frontline eles aren’t really all that common. It’s a new way to play the ele.

If you can’t see it, I don’t think the problem is Anet.

Say that again????

Do you know that the most used weapon in PvP is the dagger? I hardly call that a long range weapon….

Not in WvW mate. Eles don’t usually run in in WvW. Staff ele is the meta.

BlackBeard.2873:

When traveling between points, you are usually camping air for the +25% move-speed, so perhaps you can use the over-load at the start of fight for added burst, and again use it periodically in teamfights in between swaps to other attunements. It is hard to tell without knowing the EXACT timings and mechanics.

However, the BEST synergy would be some kind of tanky melee build, which is really hard to get a long channel off. It just seems so confused to me. This is probably why they had to take such a long break in specializations – even though they had these thematic concepts, and maybe even animations in mind, the class designers seem to be struggling to implement something fun and useful. This goes doubly for the ele dev, who we all know is completely lost in regards to designing the class.

Hmmm…. maybe, but then again I keep thinking back on that point that “After a period of time remaining in one attunement, players will be able to reactivate it to perform a special channeled ability” so I am not too sure the feasibility of you staying on air and popping the channel right at the beginning of a fight.

You know, this ability wouldn’t be so bad if they removed the channel requirement and made it that once you “charge” it you can pop it and it follows you around for 3s or something doing the effect and then ends. No additional lock out of the attunement, no additional lingering effect on the battle. Just charge it by staying in the attunement for a while – and pop it without fearing an interrupt.

Naturally the effect would need to be somewhat minor / moderate, but something useful you know?

Vayne.8563:

Not in WvW mate. Eles don’t usually run in in WvW. Staff ele is the meta.

Yeah they do if they are not in a zerg fight, but rather are roaming or in a small group.

And also, you want to melee channel a 2,5s ability in a WvW zerg train? You sir have a lot of courage to face the amount of CC in ZvZ fights with an interruptable channeling skill.

BlackBeard.2873:

Azel.4786:

BlackBeard.2873:

There appears to be some interesting synergy with fresh air

I will be honest, why is there a synergy with fresh air?

I could understand if you didn’t have to sit in an attunement for a while to be able to begin channeling, but as currently shown, it just doesn’t seem to have that. Fresh Air is all about jumping back into Air, not camping it for a length of time to then be able to start doing lightning strikes similar to Glyph of Storms.

And yes, impressive how even in the elite specialization the elite skill was trash. It seems like that is an internal directive at ANET.

When traveling between points, you are usually camping air for the +25% move-speed, so perhaps you can use the over-load at the start of fight for added burst, and again use it periodically in teamfights in between swaps to other attunements. It is hard to tell without knowing the EXACT timings and mechanics.

However, the BEST synergy would be some kind of tanky melee build, which is really hard to get a long channel off. It just seems so confused to me. This is probably why they had to take such a long break in specializations – even though they had these thematic concepts, and maybe even animations in mind, the class designers seem to be struggling to implement something fun and useful. This goes doubly for the ele dev, who we all know is completely lost in regards to designing the class.

Yeah both you and Azel bring up good points. It’ll only be worth using tempest if the rewards for the channeling, and the new skills are really all that good and worth the difficulty in channeling, which I hope that they would be.

From the article, when Karl was talking about the combo he’d do it sounded like tempest will have a lot of offensive pressure mixed in with that support, so that pressuring your enemies would be enough to put them on the defensive so you could have the gap of time needed to get a channel off. And even if it does turn out that ever teef and mes will use their instant interrupts on us, the earth channel will still be useful at the very least since it gets the revamped form of defiance.

Also Karl basically said that they overcharge channel for earth would be available in his combo after using all the non auto skills in earth attunement, so I don’t think we’ll necessarily have to worry about wasting time to autoattack before we can start a channel off, which would make it a lot more useful imo.

Overall I’d say that I’m optimistic about everything we know so far, and I’m excited to learn more. There have been downfalls to previous elite spec reveals, such as all the dragonhunter negativity, and concerns about the slowness of the reaper greatsword (its slower than medi guard hammer). But I think all of those things will take on different strenghts and weaknesses as people learn how to play with them.

I’m laughing a little because im thinking of launch. No remember when everyone thought eles were horrendous and unplayable etc etkittenil daphoenix and his cleric dagger build came along.

I’m not saying tempest is a god send or isn’t but let’s see how it actually plays before anything else

Conncept.7638:

Palindrome.8904:

Conncept.7638:

Morfedel.4165:

Conncept.7638:

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, I will log in now and protest with all my shouts I have on my Elementalist!

I suppose we are completely ignoring the fact that the Overcharged Attunements that are a thing will lock you out of said attunement for x amount of time? That will very much change how the Elementalists is played, since you can just go around aimlessly changing attunements with that and so on.

That’s not a new mechanic though, a new direction, a new anything really. It’s just a more extreme version of our existing PBAoE damage and support mechanics found on DD. They basically took what we had, made the strengths stronger per attunement and the weaknesses weaker per attunement, then handed it back to us claiming its ‘new’ when it isn’t.

That said, DD is fun, this could be fun, but ‘new’, it is not. And until we get specifics, not only on what they are adding with the Tempest and how it will work, but on what they are changing on the base elementalst mainhands, I will withhold final judgement.

Chronomancers got a new shatter. Usingthe above logic you could say the same. Of anyof them really.

What? No, you can’t say anything similar of the chronomancer.

Shatters are a group of mechanics, under a single ability type. Meaning that dozens of traits, and abilities, which the base mesmer has which affect shatters, will affect the new ability. Also, it provides a new mechanism for play, a mechanic, that neither the previous shatters nor any ability of the core mesmer provides.

Most importantly, it isn’t just bigger effects for situationally higher CDs, which is something we already SUFFER through with RTL, and most certainly not a new mechanic, let alone an overly welcomed one.

I don’t think the Mesmer skill is actually classed as a shatter. The recent update modified some trait text to specifically call out the f1-f4 skills as being affected. In other words, the new f5 is excluded from some such benefits.

Are you sure about that? We know it shatters your illusions, because it gives you time on Continuum Split equal to the number of shatters. If they choose certain traits, and specify that these only work with shatters 1-4, that would make some sense for balance reasons. But I have a hard time believing they would just flat out take away the shatter ability type from it.

You’re right, more brain farts on my part. Point of limited trait synergy does still apply though.

Azel.4786:

Vayne.8563:

Not in WvW mate. Eles don’t usually run in in WvW. Staff ele is the meta.

Yeah they do if they are not in a zerg fight, but rather are roaming or in a small group.

And also, you want to melee channel a 2,5s ability in a WvW zerg train? You sir have a lot of courage to face the amount of CC in ZvZ fights with an interruptable channeling skill.

Bottom line is, you haven’t even tried it yet, so you don’t really know if it’s a new play style or not. It’ll be a new play style for me, at any rate, even though I use dagger/dagger.

A new play style doesn’t really have a dictionary definition. Overcharging is a new mechanic for the profession. That’s all there is to it.

People who use the word lie when this is just a matter of interpretation seriously dent their credibility. People who insist on using that language, in my opinion, are the major reason Anet has stopped communicating with us.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

nearlight.3064:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

The new elite shout is so bad I don’t even believe it’s real. It maybe useful in pve – but even then only when you’re in teamspeak. In pvp it’s basically unusable.

25% less recharge isn’t much, it’s only really useful for skills with cooldowns above 2 minutes, i.e. other elites. So eles get an elite that doesn’t even do anything for them. Wow.

It has a ton of potential in organized groups. More time warps and rampages? Thats just so powerful.

Sure, but a skill that REQUIRES TEAMSPEAK to function correctly is insanely bad design, and useless in all groups where you do not have access to teamspeak – and even then there’s a delay for the voice coupled with lag from the game meaning you’ll still use the 25% reduction on the wrong skill sometimes.

It has bad design written all over it. Also, again, it’s the only elite in the game that needs allies to function at all. Horrible, simply horrible.

Not true, you don’t have to be using Teamspeak in order to cast it in opportune moments. All you have to do is pay careful attetion to your allies and decide when is fine to use the shout (i.e. when you have a tank warrior or guardian in your team and they need to use a healing ability but they’ve had use it before).

Wait and see. Evertime seems to know more than they actually do. All I see is potential.

Mesmers can’t burst without getting clones next to you.

If this spec can shut down melee then awesomeness. Because nothing else on ele barring auras can achieve that.

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

Azel.4786:

Palindrome.8904:

You’re right, I must have imagined the super speed thing. I think my brain saw the 100% duration reduction on incoming slow-condis and combined it with the notion of moving fast.

I have no argument to support long cast times (though it’s not so much an issue in PvE). Unless we see something substantial to assuage concerns over this on Friday, I’d say that all overloads should get a break bar, not just earth. That would take away a lot of worry over the channel time. As for the time camped in one attunement? You’d have to build for that, possibly with boosts in from the as-of-yet unknown traits in the new line. Or maybe the overloads are really so strong as to compensate. Any strong claims to this stuff are really unfounded until after the PoI on Friday.

TL;DR: My reading comprehension failed me, long channels appear bad, and we really can’t make strong claims with any certainty until Friday afternoon.

Friday will tell but in my opinion, thus far, the reveal only showed that the elite specialization is bringing nothing new to the class, just same old stuff we can already do in a much worse format.

It has been pointed out, reasonably, that elementalist can already do pretty much everything at least pretty well. So the ultimate outcome of the abilities should be less of a focus than the presentation/practice, imo. That said, it’s very reasonable to question the format given that we don’t know a lot. The last piece of the interview seemed interesting, as it hinted at a couple more skills. Possibly a water skill with an interesting effect if it connects (not sure what “Shock” is but it reads like it’s related?). Sand Squall sounds like AoE protection. There’s potential for some really fun play in that paragraph, but I won’t suggest you should hop on that and be happy until we see it all laid out.

You can definitely say elementalists do support well, but it is pretty restricted to might stacking, regen and fairly limited group condi cleanse (unless you take very specific water traits). We may get a weapon here that gives some fairly potent larger AoE support without requiring a specific trait line.

Well we will require a specific trait line. Don’t forget to use the tempest stuff you need to spec into tempest, thus what is the difference in specing into water focusing on group support?

Sure now we can double the efficiency on our group support by taking 2 traits and dedicating them fully to that, but then what do you do alone? Run away?

And again, elementalist main build is a bruiser hybrid. It let’s you do a lot of stuff, but in no way it covers the room of dedicated specializations. And although you could argue that – exactly! it doesn’t cover a dedicated group support specialization – we have that already with staff and in melee we do have a good potential if we choose to focus more on the group in water trait line.

A group support was not the dedicated focus we needed, burst and condi focused were the ones we mostly needed.

I for one really wanted that our spec could have a Shortbow with an emphasis on single target DPS….

Well, yes, you have to take the Tempest line, but to benefit from new support skills, you don’t have to take a single set of traits within that line. To really boost condi cleanse support with water, there aren’t really any options within the line. All choices remain open within the Tempest line and you still get any warhorn support abilities. That’s what I was getting at.

An aside: I personally wanted pistol/pistol because it’s an awesome concept (spell slinger). That said, I’m not currently disappointed with this outcome, but who knows, maybe come Friday you and I will have swapped places on the matter.

Azel.4786:

You know, this ability wouldn’t be so bad if they removed the channel requirement and made it that once you “charge” it you can pop it and it follows you around for 3s or something doing the effect and then ends. No additional lock out of the attunement, no additional lingering effect on the battle. Just charge it by staying in the attunement for a while – and pop it without fearing an interrupt.

Naturally the effect would need to be somewhat minor / moderate, but something useful you know?

I agree with you. If the channel is a true channel like drake’s breathe or cone of cold though…GG never gonna happen. If it is merely a background channel that allows you to keep using abilities…maybe. With the current pace of combat (which is INSANE since the recent changes), 2.5s of doing nothing is basically death, and by 5s you will already be waiting on the respawn timer.

Also of interest is whether you can start an overload-channel and then swap to another attunement. If I could overload water and get a water-field, then go into mega-blast mode…that could be strong when used right. If I need to sit in water with my d- in my hand…gg.

I personally think it would have been more fun to have a short build up to “re-attune” and gain the effects of that attunement as well as some other small effect (so that you aren’t always forced to just swap like a maniac).

lucadiro.4519:

Maybe can also try to see if on glyph of renewal will be not bad. I mean if u are specced into air and u take the glyph CD reducer and the shout u can ress 3 people every 100sec…

This is the thing I find HILARIOUS. Every other class has elites with effects that are like “OMG, that is so strong, watch out for it!!!”

Ele elites are all like “well maybe if the stars align, it can be ‘not that bad’!”

cupcakesandcatnomz.3924:

Man this expansion is going to be a historical disappointment :‘) not only are we getting names aimed at teenagers but animated characters blowing horns while running around, if that doesn’t attract sexual innuendos from said teenagers then i don’t know what will xD

I’m surprised by this comment

Palindrome.8904:

An aside: I personally wanted pistol/pistol because it’s an awesome concept (spell slinger). That said, I’m not currently disappointed with this outcome, but who knows, maybe come Friday you and I will have swapped places on the matter.

Since Elite Specs only seem to be getting one weapon each, I’m actually kind of concerned going forward since, had they given pistol off-hand, and then gave pistol main-hand to a different Elite Spec down the road (for example), you’d never be able to get P/P.

I am disappointed the warhorn was still used as an off-hand here though.
I would very much like to see ‘off-hand only’ die as a concept.

Vayne.8563:

Bottom line is, you haven’t even tried it yet, so you don’t really know if it’s a new play style or not. It’ll be a new play style for me, at any rate, even though I use dagger/dagger.

A new play style doesn’t really have a dictionary definition. Overcharging is a new mechanic for the profession. That’s all there is to it.

People who use the word lie when this is just a matter of interpretation seriously dent their credibility. People who insist on using that language, in my opinion, are the major reason Anet has stopped communicating with us.

No I have not tried, but the faults are still there. Let’s see if the Friday reveal touches on these faults and they say what they thought about them, but right now the spec seems a net loss.

And given the past reveals, I really expected the “fundamental” changes to the play style to be akin to the guardian, which really opened a possibility for the guardian to be a ranged threat – which it is not by any form today. That is fundamentally changing a class.

So when we get more of what we can already do, yeah I get really kittened off. Sure its a new mechanic (which thus far has a ton of flaws), but it does not “fundamentally” changes the class.

And ANET’s communication with its player base was poor since day one and only continued to be.

So yeah I am being overly aggressive with them, but after almost 3 years of them having 0 communication with their own community and then expecting a fundamental difference that, perhaps, could change us from our main bruiser tank role or our severe dependence on boons to survive, sorry if I find this specialization very lacking and not innovative.

BlackBeard.2873:

lucadiro.4519:

Maybe can also try to see if on glyph of renewal will be not bad. I mean if u are specced into air and u take the glyph CD reducer and the shout u can ress 3 people every 100sec…

This is the thing I find HILARIOUS. Every other class has elites with effects that are like “OMG, that is so strong, watch out for it!!!”

Ele elites are all like “well maybe if the stars align, it can be ‘not that bad’!”

I 50% disagree with you; ArenaNet should’ve nerfed other elites’ damage and not just nerf Tornado. Rampager and Lich Form are incredibly strong and give their users overpowered capabilities in 1v1 fights. But I have to say that our elites are not that bad, I can fight a rampage using FGS or Glyph of Elementals, but Tornado is simply not viable.

Guizao.4167:

Not true, you don’t have to be using Teamspeak in order to cast it in opportune moments. All you have to do is pay careful attetion to your allies and decide when is fine to use the shout (i.e. when you have a tank warrior or guardian in your team and they need to use a healing ability but they’ve had use it before).

So you now know all the cds of your allies and know when they are going to use something before they use it and expect that they wont use something else at the same time?

And what about instant casts through other abilities? Think meditations on guardians, they use those through healing quite often, think teleports, shielding effects and stab generation.

you might get 1 right every few matches…

Azure.8670:

I’m laughing a little because im thinking of launch. No remember when everyone thought eles were horrendous and unplayable etc etkittenil daphoenix and his cleric dagger build came along.

I’m not saying tempest is a god send or isn’t but let’s see how it actually plays before anything else

LOL I find it funny for the same reasons we did a lot of damage, but we where so squishy with that low hp Ele was useless then the D/D Ele build came along with no balance patch needed and it was OP. II think we got some slight nerfs before it was discovered IIRC.

I think this is just how people cope, and just about everyone here that’s optimistic or pessimistic will watch the live stream, catch the notes, or watch the vods later. Either excited by the possibilities or happy to dismiss it. Just about all of us will play it anyway when HOTS releases.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Guizao.4167:

Not true, you don’t have to be using Teamspeak in order to cast it in opportune moments. All you have to do is pay careful attetion to your allies and decide when is fine to use the shout (i.e. when you have a tank warrior or guardian in your team and they need to use a healing ability but they’ve had use it before).

So you now know all the cds of your allies and know when they are going to use something before they use it and expect that they wont use something else at the same time?

And what about instant casts through other abilities? Think meditations on guardians, they use those through healing quite often, think teleports, shielding effects and stab generation.

you might get 1 right every few matches…

The beginning of your statement is ambiguous; I can know the CDs of my teammates right after they cast something, because I have in mind how long an specific ability takes to recharge. Thinking about every profession in game there are situations where you have to use your healing abilities with you want to stay alive (almost every), bringing it to guardians, ‘Smite’ recharges in 16s if meditation’s trait is equipped and it’s a viable option to use whenever it’s possible, which means the shout elite is welcome here; Thinking of blink, in team fights if a shatter mesmer can’t get away of a thief or any sneaky profession with good burst they’re pretty sure dead, even more dead if they have to escape from a thief + x profession, which means the elite shout is welcome here.
The shout elite will reduce the recharge of the next skill, and not the current one your allies used.

Guizao.4167:

The beginning of your statement is ambiguous; I can know the CDs of my teammates right after they cast something, because I have in mind how long an specific ability takes to recharge. Thinking about every profession in game there are situations where you have to use your healing abilities with you want to stay alive (almost every), bringing it to guardians, ‘Smite’ recharges in 16s if meditation’s trait is equipped and it’s a viable option to use whenever it’s possible, which means the shout elite is welcome here; Thinking of blink, in team fights if a shatter mesmer can’t get away of a thief or any sneaky profession with good burst they’re pretty sure dead, even more dead if they have to escape from a thief + x profession, which means the elite shout is welcome here.
The shout elite will reduce the recharge of the next skill, and not the current one your allies used.

The thing is that if you are babysitting others so carefully as to know all their cds and calculate perfectly when to ult to maximize their most benefical skills in the middle of a fight without teamspeak or some high coordination with friends…. 1) You have some god-like abilitys or 2) You arent really in the middle of the battle / active helping

Naurgalen.2374:

Guizao.4167:

The beginning of your statement is ambiguous; I can know the CDs of my teammates right after they cast something, because I have in mind how long an specific ability takes to recharge. Thinking about every profession in game there are situations where you have to use your healing abilities with you want to stay alive (almost every), bringing it to guardians, ‘Smite’ recharges in 16s if meditation’s trait is equipped and it’s a viable option to use whenever it’s possible, which means the shout elite is welcome here; Thinking of blink, in team fights if a shatter mesmer can’t get away of a thief or any sneaky profession with good burst they’re pretty sure dead, even more dead if they have to escape from a thief + x profession, which means the elite shout is welcome here.
The shout elite will reduce the recharge of the next skill, and not the current one your allies used.

The thing is that if you are babysitting others so carefully as to know all their cds and calculate perfectly when to ult to maximize their most benefical skills in the middle of a fight without teamspeak or some high coordination with friends…. 1) You have some god-like abilitys or 2) You arent really in the middle of the battle / active helping

Thats not true. I always find perfect time to use such abilities by paying attention to how my team is fighting and doing my best to add to their efforts.

So it is pretty much dagger MH only. I seriously think Karl forgot that eles can even use a sceptre…

I think the point is that there is no way to predict what skill your 4 friends will do next. They probably don’t know themselves, everything goes so fast and all skills are queued into combos.

How can 4 people coordinate it so that they can be both in range and use the longest cooldown skill at the exact same moment after you use the elite, even with Teamspeak?

It’s a complete improvisation on a good concept (GW1 glymph) into something barely usable, it’s not like Timewarp where you get a huge bubble to indicate something is happening there. On top of that it doesn’t even do damage. Necros have a 6k auto-attack elite that can get 2-3 downs in a pvp game if timed right.

Hopefully in that article they just missed explaining what was good about that elite.

Azure.8670:

I’m laughing a little because im thinking of launch. No remember when everyone thought eles were horrendous and unplayable etc etkittenil daphoenix and his cleric dagger build came along.

I’m not saying tempest is a god send or isn’t but let’s see how it actually plays before anything else

He only popularized this build set, it was used in pvp for some time.

Besides, it doesn’t take a genius to notice that overload mechanics with their long channel times are rupt baits.

Though I wonder what happens when you self cancel overload. Full cooldown like with ether renewal? If so, this mechanic is pretty much kitten.