Guild Wars 2

Hanako.1827:

The only way you’re going to make people leave arcane and water is if you.

1. Make evasive arcana either baseline or put it in the adept section of arcane
2. Make the attunement swap cds even lower
3. Increase class base healing and vitality by at least 150
4. Make attunement swap blast in the 15 trait slots an arcane trait ranging from adept to master, replacing all the 15 trait point buffs with A more buff defined attunement swap affect like Auras.
5. Make decent fire traits.

Seriously I don’t know your thought process behind elementalist’s trait diversity but not a soul is going to take 30 in fire because of how little the damage increase is for the trade off in survivability.

Also moving really helpful things like Cleansing wave when we attune to water, to grandmaster is a big nerf to our survival and extremely lazy on your part.

1. Disagree, Evasive arcana being in adept is way too good for that level. It is good where it is. Being able to dodge with the result of: +1 blast from earth and cripple,and healing from water is alot.

2. Attunement swap CD being lowered is way too strong, try using each attunment at least 3+ seconds and you’ll have the best of all attunement each cooldown. Switching attunement without using them effectively is a cost, asking for less CD is plain too OP (depends on how much you want).

3. Woo, hold on, ele has so many survival skills, but as a D/D ele main, I’d love this if POSSIBLE.

4. Didn’t read, sorry, have to go soon.

5. Agree.

I gave my elementalist a bit of a go in some SPVP (hotjoin) yesterday. Things had not improved much.

After playing an engineer for some time, I could not justify trying to play 30 earth as an ele so I opted for a fresh air build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhEmKbzR5gjDIEFogJIeYBNAHWUkDzAA-ToAA0CsIqRVjrGTNyas1MsYKC

The damage was ok, nothing amazing, but the survival capability was very poor.

Nyxion.9142:

Water have still better dmg traits than fire.

Which is really really silly. LOL

I agree with some of what is said here. About people thinking every balance change should revolve around 0/10/0/30/30. I love standard d/d there is nothing wrong with loving that build and that being your main build but it isn’t the only ele build.

I feel that d/d Eles should run minimum 15 water and 30 arcana because your melee it makes sense to get as much incoming healing as possible nothing wrong with that. S/d has 2 high heals and is partly ranged so I go 0/30/0/20/20 do fine with it evasive isn’t needed with s/d.

It’s ok if d/d revolves mostly around 15 water and 30 arcana. All classes have build/weapon sets centered around certain trait lines.

Shatter Mesmer 30 illusions. Every build 20 dueling mandatory
Warrior hammer 20 minimum defense have a gs? 20 arms. Warhorn? 20 tactics.
Thief 15 shadow arts kind of mandatory no matter what you run.
Necro condi minimum 20 curses, want to kill ppl fast? 30 spite

What I think we will see is d/f and s/f builds for fire line in PvP. Not sure which one but not ever trait change made will be for d/d or s/d or staff.

Just posting to ensure that they didnt achieve to remove and dependance on water and arcane and i still feel to be obligated to use them.

What I figure they need to do to fix Ele is:

1) Make Elemental Attunement’s effects inherent to attunement swapping, but only for the user, can then make an Adept or Master-tier trait to make it a party-sharing effect. You could also certainly afford to have the Fire version of this give 3 stacks of Might, a single stack is absolutely pitiful (also could do this for the Inscription trait, just saying!).

2) Lower the CDs on pretty much ALL of our 4/5 skills, if we could fire those off with only 20-30 sec CDs we would be FAR more effective (also really need to lower the CD on some of our Water skills). The same should also be done for the more ludicrous utilities, like Armour of Earth.

3) Potentially give Eles the medium health pool. Other classes with low HP or armour have some mechanic which counters these weaknesses. Guardians have high armour and great boons, Mesmers have their clones and some stealth, Necromancers have high HP and Death Shroud, and Thieves have evasion, Initiative, and heavy use of stealth. An Elementalist’s mechanic, as I see it, is meant to be their healing skills in Water attunement (frankly, those aren’t so great, they have way too high CDs to be really effective at sustain) and access to various boons like Protection and Regeneration. The problem is, the access to those boons is NOT inherent to the profession.

In order to gain access to those boons the player must specifically trait for them (Glyph of Elemental Harmony can give these boons, as well as Armour of Earth, but the former requires that specific skill, and the LATTER is a 90 bloody sec CD). The primary trait that allows for access to these boons, particularly Protection on a reliable basis, is Elemental Attunement. You will NOT be getting Eles out of at least the Arcana line unless item 1 on this list occurs. You CAN go without Elemental Attunement’s effects, but it is very tough going, moreso than it should be for the profession with the least survivability of them all.

4) Finally, this isn’t as much a requirement, but it is certainly something to consider. Similar to how I figure that Elemental Attunement should be an inherent effect of the Elementalist (yet should ONLY affect the user in that state) I also feel that some other effects should occur when you swap Attunements. Water could gain the effects of Cleansing Wave, but only for the Elementalist (with the current trait used to upgrade it to an AOE to affect the party). Fire could cause the next attack inflicted to inflict a short duration Burn or flat out Burn the Ele’s current target for 3 secs. Earth could work as a stunbreak with a decently long ICD, or it could Immobilise/Cripple the Ele’s current target. Finally, Air could have Vulnerability inflicted on the Ele’s target.

The last item in particular I know probably won’t happen, but ask yourself. With as many flaws as the Elementalist has, would it really be overpowered for them to be able to do all these things, or would it just do the job of helping bring them up to be equal to the other professions (and make the Ele actually not HAVE to spec into Water/Arcane JUST to survive).

it is very sad that we, the elementalists, are being forced to focus on arcana to be able to do something .

If fire grab had a base of 25 secs no trait it would totally change fights with offhand dagger Eles.

While I rarely use elemental attunement/the water “wave” traits, I do run a staff build with a 20/20 point spread into water/arcana for several reasons:

1. Lowest health + lowest armor = bad survivability without cantrips… I need at least two cantrips at least 90% of the time.
2. The way aggro works, I must be able to dodge more than just two times every 20 seconds.
3. Blasting staff is a must.

I currently running 30 arcana just got the fever of evasive arcana( I’m bit late I know ). But the reason which I’ll never leave 30 arcane it’s because it’s traits are so versatile.

With 30 arcana I’m able rotate between staff support and S/D dps and be average I prefer to be able to jump into support and do ok when needed than sleeping on the floor wating for ress.

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

Arcana is absolutely better than every other trait line simply because the majority of traits effect the Elementalist regardless of attunement or build.

Evasive Arcana is always useful. Always. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know the versatility this one trait provides. Traits like Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina are powerful defensive traits that really don’t have an equal in the other lines. Even the minor traits, such as Arcane Fury and Arcane Precision are quite useful, especially when you consider how boon reliant an Ele is, and Arcana is the line that increases boon duration.

However, it is true that in no way is Arcana mandatory to play the Ele profession. BUT if you want to be in any way competitive in WvW or PvP, as of now 20 points are required simply to get the survivability traits of Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina.

Truly, the main problem with Ele trait design is how segregated they are. Fire traits really only work well while in Fire Attunement, which means if you spend 30 points in Fire, you’ve spent nearly half your build for 25% of your skills. Compared to any other profession, whose majority of traits apply either to a variety of skills across multiple weapons OR to their primary profession mechanic, this makes the “marginal cost” of selecting Ele traits much worse, as each trait point spent as much less overall effect, hence the popularity and strength of Arcana.

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

For survivability, it’s either dump a lot of points into water for it or dump a bunch into arcana and get some utility out of it to.

Titanimite.2534:

No offense, but I have no reason why you guys insist on going into Water and Arcana. Its just not worth it, I find a Staff build with 30/10/10/10/10 or S/D or S/F with 30/10/10/20/0 to just be much better overall.

>says it’s not worth it to put points in water or arcana
>has water and arcana in his fire nuking builds

lolokay bro, don’t hurt yourself on those contradictions.

Kaleban.9834:

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

Arcana is absolutely better than every other trait line simply because the majority of traits effect the Elementalist regardless of attunement or build.

• way too much more text to quote *

having traits that work regardless of build doesn’t really matter since, you know, you’re only going to have one build while using these traits

if you want to be a bunker, then sure, max out your water and arcane and get all those defensive traits. but ele can do things other than that. healing off all damage taken isn’t the only way to win. There’s also killing the other guy before he kills you.

And yes, the fire/air/earth/water trait lines apply more to their respective attunements. So what? You’re going to be spending some time in each of the attunements anyway. And most of the good ones are not at all exclusive to that attunement even then. Or may even have no relation other than a thematic one

Anyway I’ve been taking traits that help me survive, yes, but that may not help me survive indefinitely. Like diamond skin can help a ton for the first several seconds of a fight giving me a huge headstart on my opponent. Even when it does inevitably break and stop working, I’ve already gotten enough of an advantage that I’ve basically won. But mostly taking traits that let me kill people better. Arcana is pretty weak for dishing it out.

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

it’s because water and arcane have the only GM trait worth a kitten (plus fresh air perhaps, though i find it a total gimmick trait).

EA/arcane is good because it works whatever attunement you may be in.

water line is mandatory for survivability.

A Signet build in Earth would be potentially viable if our Signets were any good, they’d need to be twice as powerful as their current state to be worth using. Also, they could upgrade the Signet of Restoration to work similar to Arcane Brilliance, have it heal more the more targets you hit with an attack.

reikken.4961:

And yes, the fire/air/earth/water trait lines apply more to their respective attunements. So what? You’re going to be spending some time in each of the attunements anyway. And most of the good ones are not at all exclusive to that attunement even then. Or may even have no relation other than a thematic one

The point is, it would be akin to having various Beastmastery traits on Ranger that are segregated by pet type. Speed Training only working on Terrestrial, Zephyr’s Speed only working with Amphibious, etc.

No other profession has skills that only apply to a certain subset of skills within a weapon set. If you take Blade Training on Mesmer for example, it does not only apply when using Blurred Frenzy and Illusionary Riposte, it applies to every skill on the weapon.

Elementalists skill power is already nerfed because we’re expected to cycle through and blow all our skill cooldowns already, but then on top of that traits that increase damage, precision or reduce cooldown only apply to a specific attunement (25% of our skills, and 50% compared to other classes due to weapon swap), and on top of THAT those types of traits are usually separated. Another example of this, Forceful Greatsword both reduces recharge and grants might on crit. Compared to our Alacrity traits, which only reduce cooldowns in a specific attunement. Its again, half the effectiveness of other professions especially considering that many of our weapon skills have longer cooldowns than other professions’ utility skills.

In fact, the Alacrity traits would only make sense from a balance perspective if the Elementalist could switch weapons, because then they’d have relatively the same effect as other professions’ cooldown traits, minus the usual extra effects piled on top.

All of this leads back to the conclusion that in a profession designed around having access to only a single weapon set at a time, with more skills per weapon set, that separating out traits as they are to only work with one quarter of our skills at any one time will inevitably cause players looking for efficiency and any semblance of a competitive edge to pick traits that work with as many skills as possible, traits that work with the “best” skills, or traits that apply regardless of build. Any other choice is simply hamstringing your class viability. This effect is minimized in general PvE due to the relative ease of that mode, but is exacerbated in dungeons, Fractals, WvW and PvP which is a significant chunk of the game.

Having played out this patch, I overreacted poorly at first. Having now played it out for a good ten active hours, I’ll tell you D/D for a skilled person is still good.

I’m with several here. Water and Arcana prove to be two of the most useful lines.

Kaleban.9834:

reikken.4961:

x

x

this ^

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

scerevisiae.1972:

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

it’s because water and arcane have the only GM trait worth a kitten (plus fresh air perhaps, though i find it a total gimmick trait).

EA/arcane is good because it works whatever attunement you may be in.

water line is mandatory for survivability.

I find fresh air to be great tbh but it is in my opinion geared specifically for a Staff or Scepter user.

Honestly I don’t even like to swap to scepter. Fresh Air is really great on S/D. The blind is on a short cooldown and you expect a cloak and dagger or another big attack you know Air is there and you have a instant cast blind.

Scepter 2 does alot of damage if you have alot of crit damage. I like to run arcane lighting trait getting to 125 critical damage with blast.

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

Is that 3000 armor with Rock barrier? That is alot probably should shave that off some.

Mbelch.9028:

Having played out this patch, I overreacted poorly at first. Having now played it out for a good ten active hours, I’ll tell you D/D for a skilled person is still good.

I’m with several here. Water and Arcana prove to be two of the most useful lines.

The two best builds for pvp went virtually unchanged b/c they were already heavy into arcana/water, this isn’t news, but absolutely nothing was improved and many of the fringe builds ended up getting worse because key traits are deeper into the lines now.

oZii.2864:

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

Is that 3000 armor with Rock barrier? That is alot probably should shave that off some.

No, knight armor + signet of earth + second earth skill(duration 30 seconds). 0/20/0/20/30 is my build.

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

I kill warriors and guardians just fine
try incorporating some offense into your build. of course you won’t be able to kill them if you don’t do damage

reikken.4961:

Kaleban.9834:

reikken.4961:

lol at people who feel like arcana is a mandatory trait line
being addicted to evasive arcana is one thing, but that’s all it is: being addicted to it. it’s not at all mandatory, and it isn’t better than other trait lines

Arcana is absolutely better than every other trait line simply because the majority of traits effect the Elementalist regardless of attunement or build.

• way too much more text to quote *

having traits that work regardless of build doesn’t really matter since, you know, you’re only going to have one build while using these traits

if you want to be a bunker, then sure, max out your water and arcane and get all those defensive traits. but ele can do things other than that. healing off all damage taken isn’t the only way to win. There’s also killing the other guy before he kills you.

And yes, the fire/air/earth/water trait lines apply more to their respective attunements. So what? You’re going to be spending some time in each of the attunements anyway. And most of the good ones are not at all exclusive to that attunement even then. Or may even have no relation other than a thematic one

Anyway I’ve been taking traits that help me survive, yes, but that may not help me survive indefinitely. Like diamond skin can help a ton for the first several seconds of a fight giving me a huge headstart on my opponent. Even when it does inevitably break and stop working, I’ve already gotten enough of an advantage that I’ve basically won. But mostly taking traits that let me kill people better. Arcana is pretty weak for dishing it out.

Using S/D and realizing that I had no way to sneak up on a target like stealth or clones. Ye all I can do is cast rtl that is like saying I’m about to burst you to dead now proc to use your inmmunities please.

I know that with arcana no you don’t get nearly as much power as investing in other lines but it gives me survivality. Dead elementalist is no damage. I might not last as much as a bunker warrior but if I can live long enough to land my skills timely work fine for me.

Elemental Attunement is the one elementalist trait I just cannot leave out (and trust me, I’ve tried). As much as I like Evasive Arcana, even that would go before the huge protection uptime.

Now, here’s to hoping that won’t get nerfed with nothing in return for it…

Belial.1605:

for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations.

How do you know other professions are bettert if you’ve only played ele the past 5 months?

The core problem afflicting Ele is the lack of any sustain outside of water/arcane due to having no innate defence mechanic comparable to stealth/clones/aegis. You just have to spec water, and Ele is not Ele without Elemental Attunement.

“Ele is not Ele without Elemental Attunement”?

Well, I guess I don’t play Ele, then.
What am I playing?

Yeah I think Elemental Attunement is a must. I’ll spend however many points needed to get it.

I don’t use Evasive Arcana though. I’ve tried it twice because I hear it’s so great, but I just don’t find it that useful. I generally dodge away, not toward, and too many of them get wasted on red circles, not enemies.

reikken.4961:

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

I kill warriors and guardians just fine
try incorporating some offense into your build. of course you won’t be able to kill them if you don’t do damage

Don’t know what can i do more without losing survivability….It works against light classes like i said

you DO lose some survival power
you can’t be a bunker and still kill guardians. There’s a trade-off there. Either you can live while being attacked by multiple players at once but you can’t kill anything tanky, or you can kill all of the things but die when taking too much fire

If anything, water and arcana are even more important now, with synergy between cleansing water, elemental attunement, soothing disrutption, and the new soothing wave. Of course this is WvW only.

And there has always been a ton of synergy between water and arcana, since the lower your attunement cooldowns the more often you can trigger healing ripple and condi cleanse from switching to water. There is nowhere near this level of synergy for ANY other traitlines, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Jabberwock.9014:

If anything, water and arcana are even more important now, with synergy between cleansing water, elemental attunement, soothing disrutption, and the new soothing wave. Of course this is WvW only.

And there has always been a ton of synergy between water and arcana, since the lower your attunement cooldowns the more often you can trigger healing ripple and condi cleanse from switching to water. There is nowhere near this level of synergy for ANY other traitlines, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Maybe we may have to accept fate that some points will always have to go into arcane even if it is 10 points. To make that better Devs should focus on getting earth and air and fire better synergy with arcana like water has?

Air somewhat does with arcane lightning but that is more with utilities than trait wise.

Fire is it’s own beast.

Can we please get arcane precision bumped up seriously though.

For elemental attunement I think that if they ever gave it to use inherent that it would be a nerfed version. No more 5 second base.

If we look at the trait though and lets say we are devs and afraid of power creep. Would a Fresh Air S/D ele be to strong if it had elemental attunement inherent with the current base durations?

If S/D just so happened to be to powerful would elemental attunement be the first trait that would get targeted for a nerf if you wanted to “shave” if it was found OP.

S/D fresh air is the only build I can think of out there that would make them afraid of power creep. In theory you can be pretty tanky with S/D because of Rock barrier while still having over 100 crit damage WvW.

So the “scary” boon on elemental attunement with fresh air is protection. If elemental attunement was inherent you could move those points to power or earth for protection on aura. I don’t think D/D is scary anymore and really can’t think of anyway to make it scary as in survivable but able to instagib. Only thing that makes D/D instagib is double arcanes high power and crit damage.

So the power creep has to refer to sPvP. There the main complaint that comes up against eles is S/D eles with arcanes basically instagibbing. Which may have had a impact on the arcane wave change. Even still Ele isn’t really used in high ranking matchups. Seems more like a frenzy or thief 30/30/x/x/x build that they worry about popping up from ele.

My guild has one of the top tPvP teams in NA definitely Top 3 and the tPvP leader Genyen actually mains Ele but doesn’t play Ele for tournaments and hasn’t for a long time.

Hmm not sure what to think right now about Ele. Standard D/D is still in tact for WvW but in tPvP it has been replaced by Warrior. S/D is really the only type of Ele wanted if one is even wanted at all for high Team Queue.

No, if they make EA baseline, then they can do something to specifically make EA not be overpowered with Fresh Air, simply give each EA effect a 9 sec CD.

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

You are focusing too much on defensive traits. Pre-patch I was also running 3k armor with rock barrier up and my burst was still high to defeat any warrior and guardian. I lowered it now to 2857 because I prefer more offense rather than defense when it comes to solo and small group roaming. The defensive utilities and sigil are way more than enough to have great survivability along with good armor and hp pool but don’t over do it to the point you are not dealing more than just average damage with s/d. I have been playing ele since beta; I am still learning and finding new ways to play this profession very well… so your 5 months playing ele is still not enough to master the class. If you are stuck on a single build/gear for many months you just won’t become better with the profession, you gotta keep experimenting and finding new ways to improve even more.

oZii.2864:

For elemental attunement I think that if they ever gave it to use inherent that it would be a nerfed version. No more 5 second base.

The thing that makes Elemental Attunement powerful is its AOE effect. If a self-only version were baseline and a trait added to restore the AOE effect I don’t think there would be a balance issue, it would simply reduce the need to go 20 arcane to get it.

The other thing that needs addressing IMO is the need for 20pts in water, which is harder, because IMO it’s absolutely key to Ele survivability. Ele does not have an innate defence mechanic like stealth/clones/aegis, 20 water is it. You could say that mobility used to be the Ele defence mechanic, but that got nerfed into the ground to the point that you simply don’t see D/D Eles anymore in WVW.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

You are focusing too much on defensive traits. Pre-patch I was also running 3k armor with rock barrier up and my burst was still high to defeat any warrior and guardian. I lowered it now to 2857 because I prefer more offense rather than defense when it comes to solo and small group roaming. The defensive utilities and sigil are way more than enough to have great survivability along with good armor and hp pool but don’t over do it to the point you are not dealing more than just average damage with s/d. I have been playing ele since beta; I am still learning and finding new ways to play this profession very well… so your 5 months playing ele is still not enough to master the class. If you are stuck on a single build/gear for many months you just won’t become better with the profession, you gotta keep experimenting and finding new ways to improve even more.

I think that you are right man, although my build worked properly since new patch. i’ll redesign that. So i need an advice, which kind of weapon set do you suggest?

Belial.1605:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Belial.1605:

Hi all,
In my honest opinion Elementalist is now unplayable in WvW and in pvp.
In 1 vs 1 there is no way to kill a guardian or a warrior, i have to wait 14 seconds to make a combo with fire field (with 30 points in arcana), and when the combo goes well there aren’t other options to damage seriously the opponent which is still alive.
Physical resistance is ridicolous against heavy classes( i have 3000 armor, not bad for a light class). I’m not leaving water and arcana too, i had to spent 20 points in water to have cleansing wave and 30 in arcana to have a good mobility and cooldown times reduced as low as possible. The situation changes against light enemies, but for me and my experience (5 months only ele) this class is the worst of the game in most of the situations. I use S/D. Sorry for my bad english.

You are focusing too much on defensive traits. Pre-patch I was also running 3k armor with rock barrier up and my burst was still high to defeat any warrior and guardian. I lowered it now to 2857 because I prefer more offense rather than defense when it comes to solo and small group roaming. The defensive utilities and sigil are way more than enough to have great survivability along with good armor and hp pool but don’t over do it to the point you are not dealing more than just average damage with s/d. I have been playing ele since beta; I am still learning and finding new ways to play this profession very well… so your 5 months playing ele is still not enough to master the class. If you are stuck on a single build/gear for many months you just won’t become better with the profession, you gotta keep experimenting and finding new ways to improve even more.

I think that you are right man, although my build worked properly since new patch. i’ll redesign that. So i need an advice, which kind of weapon set do you suggest?

Try them all for a good amount of time. I have played D/D, Staff and S/D each for various months before I decided to test other weapon sets. I’m recently trying s/f and I love it. D/F will be next. Just keep in mind a build and a weapon set alone doesn’t fully define how great you will do with the profession, what might work for others may not work for you and vice-versa. There are other important aspects you need to consider like watching your opponent buffs, skill animations, when to go close and personal and when to dps/burst at range with range weapon sets., when it is best to activate skills and utilities etc. Keep experimenting with an open mind various options the ele provides.

Edit: Most importantly completely ignore what others from the forums consider what is and what isn’t “viable”. When I was using s/d burst build (with 30 in air) before fresh air trait was introduced, many considered it to be unviable but I was doing awesome with it. Test it yourself first for a good amount of time. Every build/weapon set has it advantages and disadvantages across all the professions.

I’m going to borrow a visual a guild mate put together, however this is something we all already know. Comparing the matrix of base stat allocation we have the following:

HEAVY CLASSES – 2127 Armour
High HP Bracket – 18372 hp
Warrior (practically no drawbacks for increased hp and armour)

Medium HP Bracket – none

Low HP Bracket – 10805 hp
Guardian (aegis, boons, virtues & healing to offset low hp)

MEDIUM CLASSES – 1980 Armour
High HP Bracket – none

Medium HP Bracket – 15082 hp
Engineer (fairly balanced offensive + defensive options)
Ranger (pet abilities, strong healing, evasion and range for balance)

Low HP Bracket – 10805 hp
Thief (evasion, blind, stealth & teleport to offset low defense)

LIGHT CLASSES – 1836 Armour
High HP Bracket – 18372 hp
Necromancer (low mobility & minimal boons, Death Shroud for defense)

Medium HP Bracket – 15082 hp
Mesmer (low mobility, stealth, evade, teleport & clones as defense)

Low HP Bracket – 10805 hp
Elementalist (boons as defense, used to have high mobility and healing)

So looking at the attached image we see they have no problem with not having classes assigned to every cell in the grid. Since we’re talking about Elementalists let us compare the defensive tools granted to each class in the low HP bracket…

Guardian – has higher base armour, has a higher up time on defensive boons, has high healing. This makes sense due to the melee nature of the class. Arguably has better party support than a melee Elementalist.

Thief – similarly has higher base armour, granted extremely powerful defensive mechanics in the form of evades, blinds, teleports and stealth.

Elementalist – lowest base armour and hp, good access to boons, decent healing and mobility (although they’ve been drastically nerfed) yet we do not have access to strong defensive mechanics inherent to the other two low HP classes. Furthermore we have no offensive advantages to offset our lack of defence.

Now ask yourselves why this makes sense?

It simply does not! The simplest solution without bumping us up an armour tier, allocating higher offensive stats or entirely reworking all our traits, skill cooldowns and power co-efficients is the following:

BUMP US UP TO THE MEDIUM HP TIER ALONG WITH THE MESMER

MarzAttakz.9608:

BUMP US UP TO THE MEDIUM HP TIER ALONG WITH THE MESMER

I strongly doubt they would consider that as it breaks their class/armour symmetry.

I’d rather see improvements to defense through class mechanics. Mobility used to be the class mechanic, combined with water/arcane traits and cantrips, but Ele mobility has been decimated, with no compensation.

Ele will always be dependent on water traits and cantrips because it is missing a fundamental class defense mechanic comparable to clones/stealth/aegis/shadowstep.

In order to really open up builds, Ele needs better defense options spread across glyphs and signets, focus and staff skills, and/or fire, earth and air traits.

idk I think ARCANE SHIELD is a pretty good defensive class mechanic
full glass double arcane shield build was so much fun

scerevisiae.1972:

MarzAttakz.9608:

BUMP US UP TO THE MEDIUM HP TIER ALONG WITH THE MESMER

I strongly doubt they would consider that as it breaks their class/armour symmetry.

That’s just the thing, there is no logical symmetry! Low HP professions are the only ones evenly distributed across the armor spectrum. Please, I beg you, take a look at the visual I included and explain the symmetry therein to me.

Would we still be so dependent on water if we had an extra 4277 base HP as a buffer? At least we’d have a choice then.

I agree though, fix our utilities, how many people still use Cleansing Fire? Look at Anet’s Golden Child, the Warrior, I’m not going to go into specifics regarding how powerful practically every utility of theirs are but 3 out of 4 stances are stun breaks in addition to providing great benefits, why did we lose so many?

Nah man, the sword that cuts us deepest, doesn’t cut evenly across all classes.

reikken.4961:

idk I think ARCANE SHIELD is a pretty good defensive class mechanic
full glass double arcane shield build was so much fun

allow me to re-quote:

In order to really open up builds, Ele needs better defense options spread across glyphs and signets, focus and staff skills, and/or fire, earth and air traits.

and again so it’s clear:

glyphs and signets, focus and staff skills, and/or fire, earth and air traits.

scerevisiae.1972:

In order to really open up builds, Ele needs better defense options spread across glyphs and signets, focus and staff skills, and/or fire, earth and air traits.

Glyphs can be traited to give (defensive) boons. They can also cause chill, weakness and/or blindness. The elementals can also heal and/or apply protection. There’s plenty of defensive options in glyphs.

ThiBash.5634:

scerevisiae.1972:

In order to really open up builds, Ele needs better defense options spread across glyphs and signets, focus and staff skills, and/or fire, earth and air traits.

Glyphs can be traited to give (defensive) boons. They can also cause chill, weakness and/or blindness. The elementals can also heal and/or apply protection. There’s plenty of defensive options in glyphs.

all the vaguely defense-related stuff in glyphs is based on random chance – it’s not reliable. the elementals are terrible, die easily and are more or less completely ignorable.

what glyphs need IMO is:

• a cast-time reduction
• better trait support (move inscription to 10pt and add a new 20pt trait)
• the non-elite elemental glyph replaced with something better, eg http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Essence or http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal

scerevisiae.1972:

all the vaguely defense-related stuff in glyphs is based on random chance – it’s not realiable. the elementals are terrible, die easily and are more or less completely ignorable.

I suppose it’s a matter of personal preference. Personally, I like the additional dps and conditions my elementals cause, and I happily use the ice elemental’s fields for comboing. Or watch a warrior deal little damage in PvP because my earth elemental gives me protection and him weakness and cripple.

the non-elite elemental glyph replaced with something better

I would like to point out that the lesser and greater elementals are virtually the same. The elite version has one or 2 extra abilities, but you’d be surprised how much utility remains on the lesser versions.

Don’t get me wrong though, I wouldn’t mind if glyphs got buffed even more. But for me personally, they do plenty. But I can understand that they’re not for everyone.

I’m with the OP. My build isn’t changing: 0/10/0/30/30