Guild Wars 2

I never die out right facing 2 opponents If I fight a large mid I can hold it and fight 1v4 for 30 seconds up to a minute. My 1v1 on point is 100% win. I can burst a double condi engineer and beet him ion 30 seconds or less if he has kit dropped on me give me 50-60 seconds. I can make him run off point but if he wants to die so be it. I was former top 200 on North America berfore the ladder changes in TSPVP and top 70 in solo rank entry. I’m mediocre but I have 3k hours on my elementalist which total around 55% of my time on guild wars 2 through wvw and spvp.

Did I ever told you a story before the battle of sigil, might nerf and Drakes breath nerf I can easily 1v4 in wvw against silvers.
Yes anet you’re mean to me T.T Don’t take EA pairing away from us.

Waisenpai.6028:

I never die out right facing 2 opponents If I fight a large mid I can hold it and fight 1v4 for 30 seconds up to a minute. My 1v1 on point is 100% win. I can burst a double condi engineer and beet him ion 30 seconds or less if he has kit dropped on me give me 50-60 seconds. I can make him run off point but if he wants to die so be it. I was former top 200 on North America berfore the ladder changes in TSPVP and top 70 in solo rank entry. I’m mediocre but I have 3k hours on my elementalist which total around 55% of my time on guild wars 2 through wvw and spvp.

Did I ever told you a story before the battle of sigil, might nerf and Drakes breath nerf I can easily 1v4 in wvw against silvers.
Yes anet you’re mean to me T.T Don’t take EA pairing away from us.

The thing is that every time they nerf bunker builds they completly destroy more squishier builds or more original builds. Seems like they only balance according to Metabattle.

They tried several thing that we leave the Arcana line but we have somehow always landed with x/x/x/x/6 build. I think they really want to swing the axe and get people out of Arcana line.

Ok, renewing stamina is nice, but what crap master arcana skill you are going to get now? Are you go to 6 to Arcana to get the EAtt or EA knowing that middle trait will do no good to you?

I don’t know, I have a new build in my mind which can be really good in HoT but it is totally dependent on what will happen to stats disappear from trait lines? Will Amulets and Gears get additional stats? If not most probably it will suck, Ele needs so many hybrid stats to be effective. We need HP not to die from one hit, we need toughness not to be insta-gibbed, we need healing to recover after eating 6-7K hits and loosing %50 of our HP, we need condition damage to cover the fact that we are hitting like wet noodle with direct damage, so on an so on…..

We need both EAs to be like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnHM9umKRE

and not like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlY_DbNXyi8

Please help us!!

Neko.9021:

And so they day has finally come. When the update comes, no more tons of boons and free spells on dodge. Eles must choose what to put in that GM tier if they go Arcana!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

No hard-work, No effort, No reward with No risk, No challenge= No more free anything.

You are correct!

" People who make the choice to study, work hard or do… give it the max on themselves to reach to the top level. And you have the people who… are not willing to put that work in, they want to get the same praise "

" You don’t learn from successes; you don’t learn from awards; you don’t learn from celebrity; you only learn from wounds and scars and mistakes and failures. And that’s the truth "

" The higher up you go, the more mistakes you are allowed. Right at the top, if you make enough of them, it’s considered to be your style "

posthumecaver.6473:

Ok, renewing stamina is nice, but what crap master arcana skill you are going to get now? Are you go to 6 to Arcana to get the EAtt or EA knowing that middle trait will do no good to you?

Except a lot of trait-lines have this problem too. Look at air…the adept minor (zephyr’s speed) is basically a non-trait, the gm minor (weak spot) is very weak (was only really good with conjure builds), and the adept level is terrible unless you are d/x or fresh air. Fire adept-level minor (20% chance to proc fireshield) is so terrible and RNG, Sunspot (master minor) has always been garbage, the adept level is bad unless you want signet-auras (burning precision is going to be worse post-burning change), and master level is “meh” at best (nothing stands out as “wow, I really want this,” with instead a lot "I guess this is kinda useful if I am going to get persisting flames). Even at GM Fire is bad with blinding ashes being crippled with a global ICD (as opposed to per-target), making it USELESS unless you want to 1v1, and pyromancer’s puissance is laughably underwhelming. Earth and water are in pretty good places at most tiers.

By making arcana worse, it makes taking some of the trash in fire and having holes in air more palatable in some ways. However, by taking away sustain-ability from arcana, most builds will just have to tank-up further.

DarkSyze.8627:

Neko.9021:

And so they day has finally come. When the update comes, no more tons of boons and free spells on dodge. Eles must choose what to put in that GM tier if they go Arcana!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

No hard-work, No effort, No reward with No risk, No challenge= No more free anything.

You are correct!

Sooth your fervour my friend, Anet is not turning us into warriors yet.

They take away half of our active mechanisms and instead they give us a flat 20% damage reduction. Are you sure this means more hard-work, more effort, more risk, more reward?

Waisenpai.6028:

I never die out right facing 2 opponents If I fight a large mid I can hold it and fight 1v4 for 30 seconds up to a minute. My 1v1 on point is 100% win. I can burst a double condi engineer and beet him ion 30 seconds or less if he has kit dropped on me give me 50-60 seconds. I can make him run off point but if he wants to die so be it. I was former top 200 on North America berfore the ladder changes in TSPVP and top 70 in solo rank entry. I’m mediocre but I have 3k hours on my elementalist which total around 55% of my time on guild wars 2 through wvw and spvp.

Did I ever told you a story before the battle of sigil, might nerf and Drakes breath nerf I can easily 1v4 in wvw against silvers.
Yes anet you’re mean to me T.T Don’t take EA pairing away from us.

I was rank 2 on soloq LB and still die to random mobs in open world pve. Rank is just an illusion. Anet will nerf your build into the ground and ability to 1vs4 pve players because only warrior and guardian should be able to do that.

DarkSyze.8627:

Neko.9021:

And so they day has finally come. When the update comes, no more tons of boons and free spells on dodge. Eles must choose what to put in that GM tier if they go Arcana!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

No hard-work, No effort, No reward with No risk, No challenge= No more free anything.

You are correct!

" People who make the choice to study, work hard or do… give it the max on themselves to reach to the top level. And you have the people who… are not willing to put that work in, they want to get the same praise "

" You don’t learn from successes; you don’t learn from awards; you don’t learn from celebrity; you only learn from wounds and scars and mistakes and failures. And that’s the truth "

" The higher up you go, the more mistakes you are allowed. Right at the top, if you make enough of them, it’s considered to be your style "

This may be the silliest thing I’ve read today, and I’m including political posts on Facebook.

The Ele wasn’t granted “free” anything. Boons for the Ele, along with healing were the profession’s only defense mechanic, in the same vein as Stealth for Thieves, Illusions for Mesmers, Death Shroud for Necromancers, etc. Counter-boon play has increased over the last year, Ele healing has been nerfed hard, as has the profession’s mobility, and many other nerfs where the aggregate result is a profession that CAN’T compete unless it is both played to the hilt and geared perfectly (i.e. Celestial amulet works for every aspect of the class).

This is a game where class balance is of vital importance. We’re going on three years and STILL the various classes are poorly balanced, including bugged/glitched skills and mechanics. And the guy responsible specifically for the Ele’s balance seems to have no idea what he is doing, for example nerfing the most used Conjures and then expecting Conjure play to increase. That’s a “WAT?!” if I ever saw one.

You might as well say that Soldier professions getting Heavy Armor “for free” is reward without risk, makes as much sense as your comments on the Elementalist.

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Neko.9021:

And so they day has finally come. When the update comes, no more tons of boons and free spells on dodge. Eles must choose what to put in that GM tier if they go Arcana!

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

No hard-work, No effort, No reward with No risk, No challenge= No more free anything.

You are correct!

" People who make the choice to study, work hard or do… give it the max on themselves to reach to the top level. And you have the people who… are not willing to put that work in, they want to get the same praise "

" You don’t learn from successes; you don’t learn from awards; you don’t learn from celebrity; you only learn from wounds and scars and mistakes and failures. And that’s the truth "

" The higher up you go, the more mistakes you are allowed. Right at the top, if you make enough of them, it’s considered to be your style "

This may be the silliest thing I’ve read today, and I’m including political posts on Facebook.

The Ele wasn’t granted “free” anything. Boons for the Ele, along with healing were the profession’s only defense mechanic, in the same vein as Stealth for Thieves, Illusions for Mesmers, Death Shroud for Necromancers, etc. Counter-boon play has increased over the last year, Ele healing has been nerfed hard, as has the profession’s mobility, and many other nerfs where the aggregate result is a profession that CAN’T compete unless it is both played to the hilt and geared perfectly (i.e. Celestial amulet works for every aspect of the class).

This is a game where class balance is of vital importance. We’re going on three years and STILL the various classes are poorly balanced, including bugged/glitched skills and mechanics. And the guy responsible specifically for the Ele’s balance seems to have no idea what he is doing, for example nerfing the most used Conjures and then expecting Conjure play to increase. That’s a “WAT?!” if I ever saw one.

You might as well say that Soldier professions getting Heavy Armor “for free” is reward without risk, makes as much sense as your comments on the Elementalist.

This.
So much this.

I kittening hate that all this reasonable discussion about putting a stop to the senseless nerfing is just bringing out the kittens who hate that a low-hp/low-armour class is able to kick their kitten in the hands of a skilled player while they tank around in their heavy armour shouting and shooting AOEs from their noob bow.

And I hate that the devs are only half as kittened… still enough to think that their whining is worth listening to.

Elementalists take MORE skill to play than any other class. We don’t get anything for free.

I think that may just kill the Arcana line for me. I never liked using it too much as it was and don’t like idea of having it be 1 of 3 picks; at least before I only had to put 10 (2) or 4 points it in. Also, it no longer has Blasting Staff, so… Well, let’s just hope things are improved a bit before Heart of Thorns launch.

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

I haven’t read all the posts here and I doubt I’m the only one who would say this. It seems bizarre to me that mandatory pick traits and traits combos all over the game are being made baseline or merged to create meaningful choices, even some in the ele itself, yet we’re forced to choose between 1 of 2 out of a currently available mandatory trait combo in arcana.

This change does nothing to address the reason why elemental attunement and evasive arcana are mandatory, which is that ele is bad without them. To make things worse, the master tier where elemental attunement used to live is now stuck with 3 bad traits. So where everyone else’s trait choices would be ‘what do I want here?’, ele’s choice in arcana will instead be ‘which of these is the least bad and which EA could I give up for the other?’.

This isn’t even mentioning the third grandmaster arcana trait, which I don’t even remember the name and effect of because there’s no way it could possibly compete with elemental attunement or evasive arcana.

posthumecaver.6473:

They tried several thing that we leave the Arcana line but we have somehow always landed with x/x/x/x/6 build. I think they really want to swing the axe and get people out of Arcana line.

Ok, renewing stamina is nice, but what crap master arcana skill you are going to get now?

The only thing Elemental Attunement as GM does is to keep arcane being more or less mandatory for PVP/WVW.

Even for PVE, I personally hate like how Ele plays without Elemental Attunement, so i’ll be speccing arcane regardless of what else the line has.

Arcane master line is weak but ele contingency won’t be terrible for PVP/WVW, it’s effectively a passive source of vigour & prot with decent uptime. Final shielding isn’t bad either.

Boon-on-attune was meant to be eles base mechanic. That is why we had higher weap swap cd, affected by chill, and even in cd when out of combat, surely to prevent any kind of easy boon stacking/spamming before a fight.

Now we have to heavily trait for that, and though base attunement swap cd has been decreased, its base mechanics is still treated differently than other profs. We are, and will always be punished for having more skills.

What if the singular version of Elemental Attunement was an arcana minor and the AoE version was a master trait?

Cecilia.5179:

What if the singular version of Elemental Attunement was an arcana minor and the AoE version was a master trait?

There are several ways to work this out. However, they do not want eles to have access to both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement.

Laraley.7695:

Cecilia.5179:

What if the singular version of Elemental Attunement was an arcana minor and the AoE version was a master trait?

There are several ways to work this out. However, they do not want eles to have access to both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement.

I think the devs need to remove that mindset. The opportunity cost of not using evasive arcana is too great to pass it up.

Cecilia.5179:

Laraley.7695:

Cecilia.5179:

What if the singular version of Elemental Attunement was an arcana minor and the AoE version was a master trait?

There are several ways to work this out. However, they do not want eles to have access to both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement.

I think the devs need to remove that mindset. The opportunity cost of not using evasive arcana is too great to pass it up.

Possibly yeah. I don’t think it would be that bad if there were actually some good master traits in arcana and many of minor traits weren’t complete trash (Zephyr’s Speed, Lingering Elements, Arcane Precision…)

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

I am so glad many mmo’s include new mmo companies do not tolerate this in their games. They make challenge+Fun, Risk-Reward first priority

If you want to play challenge+fun, risk-reward game(s), i will meet you there… until Arena net make serious change and take serious action

" Action expresses priorities and solutions "

DarkSyze.8627:

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

I am so glad many mmo’s include new mmo companies do not tolerate this in their games. They make challenge+Fun, Risk-Reward first priority

If you want to play challenge+fun, risk-reward game(s), i will meet you there… until Arena net make serious change and take serious action

" Action expresses priorities and solutions "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZauXcGdhpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMvarJ28SYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6DxxFyNIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

Imma let chu finish, but mesmer had one of the best videos of all time!

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

DarkSyze.8627:

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

I am so glad many mmo’s include new mmo companies do not tolerate this in their games. They make challenge+Fun, Risk-Reward first priority

If you want to play challenge+fun, risk-reward game(s), i will meet you there… until Arena net make serious change and take serious action

" Action expresses priorities and solutions "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZauXcGdhpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMvarJ28SYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6DxxFyNIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

Right, first of all this thread is about eles, just as a heads up. Secondly, basically any class has access to a burst build, no matter if it’s ele, engi, guardian or necro. Any class can run a burst build and be successful with it. Some builds however require more skills than others and yeah, a ranger spaming LB 1+2 doesn’t require much skill but I wouldn’t say that static discharge or fresh air is that easy to play. Sure, the second is difficult to dodge but at the same time the moment you survive the initial burst the eles hasn’t much left he can do.

And to get back to the initial topic, most fresh air builds have EA already traited. There would literally be no difference in making it Baseline has the other traits in Arcana are rather lack luster. All the classes have some sort of defensive mechanism that still makes them able to attack. Thiefs and mesmers with stealth and mesmers with clones, warriors with strances, guards with aegies and f1/2/3 skills, hell even the necro’s death shrout can be seen and used as defensive mechanism.
Eles however don’t and that’s something they really need.

I kinda feel like they made this change in preparation for the new elite spec… maybe that one includes something to substitude either elemental attunement or evasive arcana (in a different fashion, of course). A fifth attunement seems very unlikely to me (too many new skills), I’m expecting a powerful on-attunement-swap effect of some sort (expanding the current mechanics like for Guardians) as part of the elite spec. So yeah, maybe wait for the Tempest announcement to make a final judgement on this topic. I’m pretty sure anet is aware of this issue.

Maybe EA + EA in combination with the potential new on-swap effect the Tempest has turned out too powerful, who knows. We’ll see!

tetrodoxin.2134:

I kinda feel like they made this change in preparation for the new elite spec… maybe that one includes something to substitude either elemental attunement or evasive arcana (in a different fashion, of course). A fifth attunement seems very unlikely to me (too many new skills), I’m expecting a powerful on-attunement-swap effect of some sort (expanding the current mechanics like for Guardians) as part of the elite spec. So yeah, maybe wait for the Tempest announcement to make a final judgement on this topic. I’m pretty sure anet is aware of this issue.

Maybe EA + EA in combination with the potential new on-swap effect the Tempest has turned out too powerful, who knows. We’ll see!

Then all thatmeans is pigeon hole into Arcana+Water+Tempets. That’s as bad as what they’re doing now.

Maugetarr.6823:

DarkSyze.8627:

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

I am so glad many mmo’s include new mmo companies do not tolerate this in their games. They make challenge+Fun, Risk-Reward first priority

If you want to play challenge+fun, risk-reward game(s), i will meet you there… until Arena net make serious change and take serious action

" Action expresses priorities and solutions "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZauXcGdhpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMvarJ28SYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6DxxFyNIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

Imma let chu finish, but mesmer had one of the best videos of all time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqo-tr7i9_o

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

All these videos makes you remember how bad GW2 classes balance is. We have been dealing with this for years (we used to have Meteornado to compensate but that was lost), but it doesn’t change the fact that the burst of the ranger at that range is completely broken.

Thought all this was a predictable nerf but what kinda surprises me is that things like Illusionary Persona can become baseline but nothing, not even Elemental contigency can become baseline? All they got was Blasting Staff becoming baseline? Who cares?

Xillllix.3485:

Maugetarr.6823:

DarkSyze.8627:

Kaleban.9834:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

Challenge can not exist without Fun: can not separated at all. If anyone Dare break them apart: will only result in sever punishment and sever consequence.

The evidence is everywhere and will continue to spread without no control. Arena net sales and popularity is not improving: it is sever decreasing because of this.

The only way for Arena net to redemption is to surrender to challenge and enforce it.

Here are the list of Profession that are in sever Violation of Challenge and must be enforced for Fun and Challenge to be harmony together.

Ranger, Elementalist, Thief and Engineer.

When Enforcement of Challenge is Enforced: than you can say the word Fun.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

All Your Base Are Belong To Us?

My brain had a seizure reading this, but I get the point, that balance of the professions is key to competitive, and fun gameplay.

The problem with the premise of your argument though is that you determine what is fun, whereas someone else’s definition may be different. Eles do not DOMINATE any game mode, they’re decent to good in most, but are not the overpowering, destructive force you allude to.

And really, its not even a problem. The Ele (and Engineer) are the most difficult professions to play, and if they are played skillfully SHOULD reward the player with consistent victory. Otherwise, you’re punishing players who would pick those professions so that scrubs who noobcannon their way through the game with Warriors and Guardians can feel good about crushing Scholars.

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

I am so glad many mmo’s include new mmo companies do not tolerate this in their games. They make challenge+Fun, Risk-Reward first priority

If you want to play challenge+fun, risk-reward game(s), i will meet you there… until Arena net make serious change and take serious action

" Action expresses priorities and solutions "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZauXcGdhpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMvarJ28SYo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6DxxFyNIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

Imma let chu finish, but mesmer had one of the best videos of all time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqo-tr7i9_o

Where is “skill”?
Where is “Challenge”?
Where is “Fun”?
Where is “Hard-Work”?
Where is “Effort”?
Why so many rewards: for free?
Change-Nerf: where?

All these videos makes you remember how bad GW2 classes balance is. We have been dealing with this for years (we used to have Meteornado to compensate but that was lost), but it doesn’t change the fact that the burst of the ranger at that range is completely broken.

That wasn’t to really say that mesmers are OP, just Darksyze mains mesmer IIRC. Actually, pretty much the only class you’ll have trouble finding a burst like any of these videos is necro. I think that goes to show how close to balanced the game is. That’s not to say there aren’t a couple of builds that aren’t outliers, but class to class it’s not that bad. I don’t want to derail the thread though, so I’ll just go back to lurking in it as the Ele mains flesh this topic out (as ele is my favorite alt, not my main). It just bugs me when I see someone calling for half of the game’s classes to be nerfed.

Carry on.

Cecilia.5179:

Laraley.7695:

Cecilia.5179:

What if the singular version of Elemental Attunement was an arcana minor and the AoE version was a master trait?

There are several ways to work this out. However, they do not want eles to have access to both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement.

I think the devs need to remove that mindset. The opportunity cost of not using evasive arcana is too great to pass it up.

I 100% agree.
I have been playing alternative ele builds that don’t include evasive arcana (here’s one I came up with) and it really removes a major element of the elementalist gameplay.
I don’t know what the devs are thinking, but it obviously isn’t “how can elementalist be kept fun and strong in its intended role?”

Make elemental attunement baseline for personnal boon application and a grandmaster trait to share the boons with others, that’d be fine. But having to drop one of the two is way too much and downright kittened.

I like how devs nerf eles and make us choose between the two strongest assests of the class while allowing thieves to access both panic strike and executionner. Way 2 go.

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

Sorry but… WHAT ?!

Gaab.4257:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

Sorry but… WHAT ?!

I want to share something with you include Elementalists players that is very interesting.

In my research and investigation: In 2005 something happened that enforced fun and challenge in Guild Wars by Arena net. It is Arena net no longer refusing to tolerate anything that threat fun and challenge.

What was that threat?

Spike Damage/ Burst Damage.

Why was it a threat?

“A spiker is a player who inflicts massive amounts of damage to a single target in a short period of time, with the goal of taking them down quickly”.

What was Arena net serious action against this non-challenge and non-fun threat?

“The spell Chain Lightning was made weaker in the summer of 2005 by reducing its damage and increasing its activation time. This made it less potent and easier to disrupt. This was in response to the domination of PvP teams that were composed of Air Magic spikers”.

You can read more in the link: with more surprises.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nerf

Power Creep/ Zerker

Why was it a threat?

“Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content. As new expansions or updates are released, new game mechanics or effects are introduced making it increasingly difficult for older content to remain in balance without changes. Usually, this means new content releases grow successively more powerful (hence “power creep”) while older content becomes relatively underpowered".

What was Arena net serious action against this non-challenge and non-fun threat?

“In Guild Wars (and other computer games), developers are able to release updates which alter older content to try to keep balance. ArenaNet performs major rebalancing after the end of each tournament season”.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Power_creep

Last: I encourage Arena net to not forget their roots: of doing their best to make Guild Wars—-2: a fun+challenge game and to take serious action against any threat that want to destroy it. Not to forget their players who just want a fun and a challenge game.

-that is all-

DarkSyze.8627:

-snip-

All that is well and good, if you can 100-0 someone it is a bad thing. And power creep in spike-damage always leads to a conversation that ends with “these classes need this if they ever want to keep up with thief who has mobility and superior active mitigation capabilities through stealth/blinds/ports.” Every spike build is kept in-check by that 1 singular class, and any montage of selected kills is generally cut from a total reel that features WAY more deaths than kills.

However, ALL discussion of spike damage has NOTHING to do with elemental attunement and evasive arcana – both of these are sustain + support traits, and are generally necessary for eles to get active defensive from attunements. Those silly 100-0 builds you were referencing don’t even utilize these usually, and they have NO influence on the burst combination if they DO show up in that build.

Now if you are talking solely about power-creep, this is also a problem. While it is clear that every class is being power-creeped to high heaven, eles are actually being nerfed in general. This is a reaction because the class is strong in the current meta, it is being punished in the next-rebalance as everything is brought up to its former power level while it is brought DOWN to the weakest of the current classes. Thus continues the cycle of “OMG ELES TOO STRONK, NERF NAO —> PLS STOP HANDICAPPING MY TEAM BY PLAYING ELE” that cycles every year or so.

Also, for those who don’t understand why eles get so defensive about core mechanics (of which elemental attunement, evasive arcana, cleansing water, and renewing stamina have been necessary in every working build since forever) a little context of the times when they took one of these away (cleansing water):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-are-OP-and-need-nerf-ASAp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Am-I-a-masochist-1

I am not saying that these traits, or ele, should never be touched, but it is clear from their track record and comments in regard to proposed changes that they are completely clueless about what makes the class work and not.

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

DarkSyze.8627:

Gaab.4257:

All those nice theories at anet, why to change something, why to take away something.

It’s all nice but where is the FUN? Isn’t GW a game somewhere, that people play for fun?

Fun?

It is not nice when there is no Fun to play against this profession. GW should be a game somewhere, that people play for fun but it is not. That is why change-challenge must be enforce to make it happen.

-You can not talk about one without the other-

Sorry but… WHAT ?!

I want to share something with you include Elementalists players that is very interesting.

Interesting but has absolutely nothing to do about what this topic is discussing (and also I don’t agree with it generally).

scerevisiae.1972:

posthumecaver.6473:

They tried several thing that we leave the Arcana line but we have somehow always landed with x/x/x/x/6 build. I think they really want to swing the axe and get people out of Arcana line.

Ok, renewing stamina is nice, but what crap master arcana skill you are going to get now?

The only thing Elemental Attunement as GM does is to keep arcane being more or less mandatory for PVP/WVW.

Even for PVE, I personally hate like how Ele plays without Elemental Attunement, so i’ll be speccing arcane regardless of what else the line has.

Arcane master line is weak but ele contingency won’t be terrible for PVP/WVW, it’s effectively a passive source of vigour & prot with decent uptime. Final shielding isn’t bad either.

Elemental Contingency is also an illusion for PVE, when I wear my Berserker set (and I have to while dungeon meta dictates, otherwise get kicked) I don’t want to be hit, so EC is not doing anything for me for the PVE. If something will hit me, I will be prob dead, so it is not doing anything for me anyway.

For WvWvW, when I am in the zerk, I doubt it will be doing anything also, I want the protection before I am hit, not after I am hit and sitting there with %10 HP.

I don’t know, I have some nice builds on my mind but it all depends how the lost stats from trait lines will be distributed to gear. Like can I use %20 DR from Earth any other gear that giving little bit toughness other then solder, etc? Is there going to be a gear like Berserker but little bit more toughness, hp, healing power in it (the parts we lost from trait lines from earth, water), if not I think Ele and may be Engi will be the profession hit hardest from these changes so, so on.

posthumecaver.6473:

For WvWvW, when I am in the zerk, I doubt [Elemental Contingency] will be doing anything also, I want the protection before I am hit, not after I am hit and sitting there with %10 HP.

The boon is applied before the hit, so you get the prot before you get hit.

Agree that EC is totally useless for PVE, but then PVE is so easy in this game that it barely matters.

I’d much rather prefer to 100% actively mitigate dmg opposed to recovering from it when ever I felt like it. IMO it would be way cooler to have to intercept an attack in order to heal a good amount opposed to just healing to full when ever I feel like it. Wouldn’t it be cool if this is how sword functioned?

Grimreaper.5370:

I’d much rather prefer to 100% actively mitigate dmg opposed to recovering from it when ever I felt like it. IMO it would be way cooler to have to intercept an attack in order to heal a good amount opposed to just healing to full when ever I feel like it. Wouldn’t it be cool if this is how sword functioned?

No.

I don’t want another d/d ele like spec with sword. For the sake of the class I hope it’ll bring a viable dps build.

BlackBeard.2873:

DarkSyze.8627:

-snip-

All that is well and good, if you can 100-0 someone it is a bad thing. And power creep in spike-damage always leads to a conversation that ends with “these classes need this if they ever want to keep up with thief who has mobility and superior active mitigation capabilities through stealth/blinds/ports.” Every spike build is kept in-check by that 1 singular class, and any montage of selected kills is generally cut from a total reel that features WAY more deaths than kills.

However, ALL discussion of spike damage has NOTHING to do with elemental attunement and evasive arcana – both of these are sustain + support traits, and are generally necessary for eles to get active defensive from attunements. Those silly 100-0 builds you were referencing don’t even utilize these usually, and they have NO influence on the burst combination if they DO show up in that build.

Now if you are talking solely about power-creep, this is also a problem. While it is clear that every class is being power-creeped to high heaven, eles are actually being nerfed in general. This is a reaction because the class is strong in the current meta, it is being punished in the next-rebalance as everything is brought up to its former power level while it is brought DOWN to the weakest of the current classes. Thus continues the cycle of “OMG ELES TOO STRONK, NERF NAO —> PLS STOP HANDICAPPING MY TEAM BY PLAYING ELE” that cycles every year or so.

Also, for those who don’t understand why eles get so defensive about core mechanics (of which elemental attunement, evasive arcana, cleansing water, and renewing stamina have been necessary in every working build since forever) a little context of the times when they took one of these away (cleansing water):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-are-OP-and-need-nerf-ASAp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Am-I-a-masochist-1

I am not saying that these traits, or ele, should never be touched, but it is clear from their track record and comments in regard to proposed changes that they are completely clueless about what makes the class work and not.

What you said about 100-0 builds and doing that being bad for the game is completely wrong, it requires far more skill to fire off 10 skills in under one second than to fire off 3 and beat that person who just used 3x as many cds anyways. And even very burst builds need sustain in the event they are hit and they will be. Your comment just proves you have never played a burst build pvp vs adequate players.

What happened to player choice? What happened to giving us more options? This is REMOVING choice and REMOVING options.

I think it’s pretty clear, with this new trait system and the masteries, that all of the “benefits” from this new expansion were just buzzwords and double talk.

Taking away options from players is NOT giving them more “choices”. Forcing them to go down certain paths is NOT giving them more “customization”. All of these changes are doing the exact opposite of what they said they were doing.

Frankly, I’m tired of all the false hype. I’m tired of the facade. I’m tired of them breaking things that worked and calling it an upgrade.

bastien.7961:

What happened to player choice? What happened to giving us more options? This is REMOVING choice and REMOVING options.

They legitmately ARE trying to open up new options and build variety – just look at what some other professions are getting: very compelling options in many different lines. The BEST example is probably warrior, which is getting very strong choices in almost every line, with the ability to make many builds that have no holes whatsoever. The difference is that other professions have a more competent designer, while we are stuck with a person (or group) who honestly have no idea what they are doing with the class. They are stuck with the problem that ele is supposed to be a glass cannon class, but thieves make such builds unviable in pvp, honestly. Ele found a niche as a tanky/supporty battle-mage with d/d ele, but they get stuck with a situation that such a role directly competes with warriors. They seem to be pushing that further with an aura-mancer and regular d/d, but honestly, both builds are going to be seriously flawed.

I know I said I was going to stay out of it, but I just wanted to say that part of the disappointment (for me) is that all of the mid tier trait choices are ‘meh.’ They kept touting themed lines with the reaper spec, but the mid tier is just sort of thrown in there like they didn’t know where else to put them. If they swapped arcane energy and arcane shield, you could say that that you were focusing on an evasion-centric build by picking up renewing stamina (vigor on crit), arcane energy (25 endurance gain and recharge reduction on skill that guarantee crits), and evasive arcana to use all that endurance up with. Then arcane shield, contingency, and Elatt could be themed around taking hits.

The most frustrating part imo was not that they made you choose between the EAs but rather the lack of synergy in the rest of the line based around that important choice.

Looks like time to send my Staff Ele back to Nerfed Fields Retirement Village.
Motto: Sit down, relax and talk about the good ol’ days.

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

Looks like time to send my Staff Ele back to Nerfed Fields Retirement Village.
Motto: Sit down, relax and talk about the good ol’ days.

Wildstar is going f2p! The last time they nerfed eles into the ground, the game lost a LOT of its fun. I suggest looking into other games (or classes if you can enjoy them as much) for the upcoming changes.

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

Looks like time to send my Staff Ele back to Nerfed Fields Retirement Village.
Motto: Sit down, relax and talk about the good ol’ days.

Personally I’m thinking about switching to either Reaper or Revenant as main.
It really depends how good the new Ele profession will be.

This is DISGUSTING and it makes me truly sick to still see the same fools ruining balance. They obviously do NOT play ele, ele NEEDS both of those traits accessable….

I will be playing Mesmer, which sucks because I love ele. But this change will be the end of it for me. I haven’t played in months, and I still see the same BS with class balance….

Ele not worth it anymore if this garbage goes through. Karl is a dunce

Maugetarr.6823:

I know I said I was going to stay out of it, but I just wanted to say that part of the disappointment (for me) is that all of the mid tier trait choices are ‘meh.’ They kept touting themed lines with the reaper spec, but the mid tier is just sort of thrown in there like they didn’t know where else to put them. If they swapped arcane energy and arcane shield, you could say that that you were focusing on an evasion-centric build by picking up renewing stamina (vigor on crit), arcane energy (25 endurance gain and recharge reduction on skill that guarantee crits), and evasive arcana to use all that endurance up with. Then arcane shield, contingency, and Elatt could be themed around taking hits.

The most frustrating part imo was not that they made you choose between the EAs but rather the lack of synergy in the rest of the line based around that important choice.

this exactly

Xillllix.3485:

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

Looks like time to send my Staff Ele back to Nerfed Fields Retirement Village.
Motto: Sit down, relax and talk about the good ol’ days.

Personally I’m thinking about switching to either Reaper or Revenant as main.
It really depends how good the new Ele profession will be.

I’ve been thinking the EXACT same thing.

MrSilver.5269:

Xillllix.3485:

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

Looks like time to send my Staff Ele back to Nerfed Fields Retirement Village.
Motto: Sit down, relax and talk about the good ol’ days.

Personally I’m thinking about switching to either Reaper or Revenant as main.
It really depends how good the new Ele profession will be.

I’ve been thinking the EXACT same thing.

I do think that if this changes go through, many people won’t bother to play ele anymore. It’s already disappearing from pvp as it’s being replaced by shoutbow and fresh air was never really viable. If the elite spec is not strong, then it’s just a nail in the coffin of elementalist in pvp.