Guild Wars 2

I have no idea what the hype is about. There has been relatively little evidence to link elementalists to either warhorn OR sword. Yes these things could be interesting and fun to add to an already existing tool set, but I see a lot of projections in this forum already and the only difference between them is which is the popular chew toy of the day.

Also, as an owner of multiple swords and blades, I can tell the OP with absolute confidence that a sword is not ‘just a longer dagger’. I can also point out that Greatsword is a very often applicable weapon to multiple builds and professions. And then lastly, since the devs are starting to look at weapons being used in a multitude of platforms ( like the difference between thrown hammers, thrown daggers, and melee staves ) I find the assumption even more glaringly ignorant.

Raif.9507:

Leo G.4501:

Sword can be very awesome and interesting if done creatively. I’m all for creative modes of play which makes me rather confused when people keep pressing for ele sword main to just get a cleave weapon. I mean, yeah, sure ele doesn’t really have a specifically “swing and cleave” type of weapon but that’s hardly a playstyle. Necros got a cleaving weapon not because they needed a weapon to swing and hit multiple foes, they got GS because their AoE was limited. Elementalist isn’t limited on AoE at all. They likely have more AoE than any other profession (I’m learning about engi and they seem pretty good at AoE too) so introducing a melee cleave is only to pander to a specific attack style, NOT a play style.

I once made a suggestion for a sword off-hand for ele that kinda sorta made a ‘trapper’ out of elementalist since ele doesn’t have anything like traps/marks to work with. THAT is the way people should be looking at weapons and specs, at least when we’re trying to add to a profession’s capabilities.

Most people who want sword (like myself) see sword as a possibility for a bursty, evade/blink type of assassin. More of a “I see you there, you’re going to die” type of all in playstyle that the thief and mesmer have that depends on evades and blinks for survivability, not regen, protection and heals. Scepter has a form of this, but it’s ranged and it’s still mixed if taken with focus with tons of utility which is why it’s not as powerful as mesmer/thief burst.

D/D is more of an in your face, tanky/healy type of melee brawler and this would make it more interesting, at least I think it would be an interesting take on the elementalist. A mage melee assassin.

Ahh yes, I’m all for this idea. This is how I’ve always wanted to play my elementalist

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

Its a ranged burst weapon. Its not trash, it fulfills that role very well. As to whether burst ele is even viable at varying levels of play, thats another story, but the weapon does fulfill that role. Most of the reasons that scepter fresh air isn’t viable at high levels are due to relatively poor damage mitigation, mobility, disengage, team fight utility compared to a mesmer, thief, or medi guard, and none of those are the scepter’s fault because the damage is totally there.

Similarly the mesmer scepter isn’t trash either, its a great weapon for condition or even phantasm builds. Likewise, those condition builds aren’t viable at high levels of play, but thats not because the weapon is trash.

What I think he means is scepter has a lot of abilities that are kitten near useless, which in his mind makes it trash.

Grimreaper.5370:

nearlight.3064:

Laraley.7695:

robertul.3679:

So what ele doesn’t need a new offhand?

Did mesmer really need a new offhand given that it has sword, focus, torch, pistol? All good in various situations. Meanwhile the only viable mainhand is the sword.

At least ele has scepter which is a lot better than mesmer scepter. And dagger which is very strong.

Scepter is trash.

Its a ranged burst weapon. Its not trash, it fulfills that role very well. As to whether burst ele is even viable at varying levels of play, thats another story, but the weapon does fulfill that role. Most of the reasons that scepter fresh air isn’t viable at high levels are due to relatively poor damage mitigation, mobility, disengage, team fight utility compared to a mesmer, thief, or medi guard, and none of those are the scepter’s fault because the damage is totally there.

Similarly the mesmer scepter isn’t trash either, its a great weapon for condition or even phantasm builds. Likewise, those condition builds aren’t viable at high levels of play, but thats not because the weapon is trash.

What I think he means is scepter has a lot of abilities that are kitten near useless, which in his mind makes it trash.

Well, when the only truly good skill is Phoenix…it’s kinda a trash weapon overall.
I personally find Scepter really difficult to enjoy when most of its skills are so weak and clunky.

I was kinda hoping for ninja throwing stars or a board with a nail in it

I prefer no weapons for ele… just the hands. Or spear… Or Mace…
In that order of awesomeness.

I wouldn’t mind warhorn, but the skins are sooooo boring

swords are sexy!

but i doubt anything will replace staff in pve ^^

I was wondering if the tempset will be a more like zerk specialization or more condi, if nyone knows that would be good so i buy the right equipment for my ele from now.

I’d like to entertain the idea of the sword. I mean Tempest, sure, calling storms with a warhorn is thematically correct but just open up your imaginations for a sec. What if… we used a sword to “BE” this tempest. I’m just letting my imagination run wild for this one, just speculations at best. But I mean, the Ele could be using it as a melee spellsword. Like infusing the energies of the elements in the sword for Melee DPS close range. Granted the dagger is something like that but personally, it doesn’t do any hack-n-slash things. How cool is it to be this flurry of elemental energy when attacking with a sword? I don’t know. Just some imagination gone wild.

I really don’t think it will be war horn. If I understand correctly, the argument that it is war horn looks like this:

1: There are art assets for a new war horn, so some elite spec is probably getting horn proficiency.
2: We already know what Guardian, Ranger, Mesmer, and Necromancer are getting. Warriors already have horn. Therefore, either Revenant, Thief, or Elementalist is getting horn.
3: There is concept art of a thief apparently holding a staff, so it’s not the thief.
4: Therefore, Elementalist is the most likely option.

Here’s my counter-argument

1: I predict that each spec will get a different weapon proficiency.
2: Rangers are getting staff, so I don’t think Thief will get staff.
3: We know that one elite spec will get shouts. Someone in this thread said we know Tempests are not getting shouts; I haven’t seen the source for that, but I’ll go ahead and believe it. I would guess that whoever gets the horn will get the shouts. Elementalists aren’t getting the shouts, so they aren’t getting the horn.
4: Furthermore, the elite specs revealed so far are designer to push classes into new roles they didn’t cover before. Necros get a melee build for a mostly-ranged class; Guardians get a ranged build for a mostly-melee class. Rangers get a support build for a mostly-damage class; Mesmers get a tank build for a mostly-squishy class.
5: Warhorns are traditionally used for support and control. Elementalists already have a dedicated support build (staff) and an offhand utility weapon (focus). Warhorn would probably not change their feel that much. Therefore, Elementalists will not get war horn.

Personally, I suspect that Thieves will get shouts and a horn for a support spec called Bard or Tactician. I don’t think we’ll ever see staff on the non-magic classes (warrior, thief, engineer), because GW2 staves are spellcasting tools and they look like spellcasting tools. If we do get staves on one of those classes (either as a non-magic martial arts weapon or on a magic-themed elite spec), then I think it will be Warrior, simply because the devs have very few options for new Warrior proficiencies.

As for what new weapon elementalists will get, I have no idea. Personally, I hope it’s not sword, because that just doesn’t feel very different from dagger. Mace, Greatsword, and Torch are all available and all of them would excite me more than Sword does. Still, I have no reason to believe it won’t be sword.

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Someone in this thread said we know Tempests are not getting shouts; I haven’t seen the source for that, but I’ll go ahead and believe it. I would guess that whoever gets the horn will get the shouts.

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a greatsword, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

Laraley.7695:

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a warhorn, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

But Necro already has Warhorn
I don’t understand

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on. There’s not much I would trade my Locusts and Wail of Doom for, except for maybe a block, evade, iframe, blink, teleport, reflect, leap or stability. Any of those would be nice, but that’s not the point. I’m sure it will be just as good on Ele.

Is this sarcasm?

You tell me.

/Message Body length must at least be 15.

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a warhorn, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

But Necro already has Warhorn
I don’t understand

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on. There’s not much I would trade my Locusts and Wail of Doom for, except for maybe a block, evade, iframe, blink, teleport, reflect, leap or stability. Any of those would be nice, but that’s not the point. I’m sure it will be just as good on Ele.

Here’s the thing. Warhorn is not a bad idea for an elite spec. I think it could add something to the profession.

However, it is a bad idea for the first elite spec. Yes, it could offer new ways to do damage and support….but with an offhand. The issue (as I’ve stated previously in this thread) is that our two other off-hands are the strongest weapons we have after staff. They are very diverse and can bother cover a wide range of situations. Warhorn would have to be as strong as those two in order to be considered a side-grade, but really… Dagger Offhand is great for a close-range brawler while Focus is great for mid to close range with defensive and support options. The two of those cover pretty much all facets of the game.

The issue is that we DESPERATELY need a main-hand to go with out amazing offhands. We are still going to be the only profession without a melee weapon that can properly cleave and use an Auto-attack chain. Lightning Hammer does NOT fit this role as you have to give up 21 abilities in order to gain 5 more. Warhorn COULD be a cone-based damage option…however…then it has to compete with staff.

The elementalist currently needs (from a new weapon) Cleave, Mobility, and Burst. As much as I LOVE the idea of sword filling this niche, I’d be happy with axe or mace as well. Warhorn cannot be able to fill all these niches. It has to be either an off-hand or some cone-based (or worse single-target) ranged damage. Which would be fine IF AND ONLY IF we had other elite specs to fill in the niches we lack. Again, let me reiterate. I agree it can be good. This is just what the Elementalist needs in order to have a full and unique toolkit.

Aktium.9506:

You tell me.

/Message Body length must at least be 15.

My sarcasm detector is broken but I can tell you that whitespaces do increase the length of a message.

Aktium.9506:

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on.

As secondary choice weapon with support abilities on it. Problem is, ele already have tons of support abilities, and WH will unlikely give something really useful like projectile reflect. I’d prefer to see something more offensive for offhand, like sword.

Fade.1743:

Cleave, Mobility, and Burst. Warhorn cannot be able to fill all these niches

Not with that attitude it can’t.

rotten.9753:

My sarcasm detector is broken but I can tell you that whitespaces do increase the length of a message.

CTRL + C/V beats mashing space a bunch of times

tbh, Warhorn could be good, no one has any ideas what utility skills it’ll bring.. or its Damaging skills, Warhorn could equally be linked to storm via The idea they can call upon the Clouds with their horn to Strike Down their foes, or cause Winds and Storms wherever they may go.

I dont understand how this is Game-breaking for you, you have enjoyed this class without a sword for Years yet suddenly u cannot play without it? Aslong as it Fits in the Playstyle has its strengths and is capable against any other class Why are u so fussed?…. nobody knows what the warhorn is, it could even be a main hand weapon for all you know..

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a warhorn, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

But Necro already has Warhorn
I don’t understand

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on. There’s not much I would trade my Locusts and Wail of Doom for, except for maybe a block, evade, iframe, blink, teleport, reflect, leap or stability. Any of those would be nice, but that’s not the point. I’m sure it will be just as good on Ele.

Yeah, sorry. I meant to type greatsword, edited it.

I don’t think I would want necro’s warhorn, though. Ele already has daze and plenty of swifntess. The damage is a nice bonus, but I’d rahter get a mainhand.

Laraley.7695:

Yeah, sorry. I meant to type greatsword, edited it.

I don’t think I would want necro’s warhorn, though. Ele already has daze and plenty of swifntess. The damage is a nice bonus, but I’d rahter get a mainhand.

Well of course not. The skills are tailored to their professions. I wouldn’t want Warrior’s Warhorn on my Necro either even though it’s skills are good.

And disregarding the calling down storms stuff people are clamoring for, i can easily see a nice distribution of unique skills on Warhorn.

A few effects I’d like to see on a hypothetical Warhorn are like, the following
This historical version of Backdraft
This GW1 skills looks like it would be sweet in GW2
The old Absorb effect could be fun to have at your disposal
This thing would be rad too

The problem with warhorn is: It can’t really offer more CC and damage/mobility than dagger (because that would make it OP) and it can’t really offer more defense than focus (because again that would be op).

So there’s only one thing it can realistically be – a mish mash of skills that are neither as good offensively as dagger and not nearly as good defensively as focus.

I simply don’t see us ever use such a weapon then.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

So there’s only one thing it can realistically be – a mish mash of skills that are neither as good offensively as dagger and not nearly as good defensively as focus.

I simply don’t see us ever use such a weapon then.

Last time I checked, Ele’s ability to utilize a mishmash of skills was sort of what Ele is all about.

Oh man, why people are overreacting about the warhorn?

1) Not confirmed. Even with 763 clues, anet can change minds at some point and come in an article just saying “Oh, this was meant to be warhorn, but we changed minds..”, just like they mentioned the scrapped idea of Mesmer getting rifles.

2) Even IF it’s warhorn. Depends on the way it’s executed. Most mesmers were outraged by getting shield, yet we saw that the whole concept and skill execution was pretty neat. Heck, anet could even give Warriors focus and make it work somehow. Tempest is probably a magician capable of manipulating storm manifestations of the elements… So much creative material to work, I can’t believe that even with warhorn, eles are getting bland and tasteless spells.

yhvh.8703:

Oh man, why people are overreacting about the warhorn?

1) Not confirmed. Even with 763 clues, anet can change minds at some point and come in an article just saying “Oh, this was meant to be warhorn, but we changed minds..”, just like they mentioned the scrapped idea of Mesmer getting rifles.

2) Even IF it’s warhorn. Depends on the way it’s executed. Most mesmers were outraged by getting shield, yet we saw that the whole concept and skill execution was pretty neat. Heck, anet could even give Warriors focus and make it work somehow. Tempest is probably a magician capable of manipulating storm manifestations of the elements… So much creative material to work, I can’t believe that even with warhorn, eles are getting bland and tasteless spells.

To be fair if we send a huge uproar before it gets announced it’s more likely they will change it, so I say keep posting the anti war-horn threads, I already equipped my Bolt!

And it’s been stated before, our two offhands are really good and cover all situations. Our team support is excellent and our AoE is good. War-horn couldn’t bring us anything new, and is the most hated weapon in the game.

I’m pretty excited about the idea of using a warhorn on elementalist. Just imagine calling the storms with your warhorn, and depending on your attunement you get to use a high DPS skill or some other utility skill giving out some sort of condition or ally buff. Just like all weapons on ele give a range of different types of skills.

Why does ele need an auto attack chain skill for DPS? This is not hellokitty online where things are made easy enough where mashing the #1 key is enough to go through your content. Go play axe warrior instead?

Retsuko.2035:

I’m pretty excited about the idea of using a warhorn on elementalist. Just imagine calling the storms with your warhorn, and depending on your attunement you get to use a high DPS skill or some other utility skill giving out some sort of condition or ally buff. Just like all weapons on ele give a range of different types of skills.

Why does ele need an auto attack chain skill for DPS? This is not hellokitty online where things are made easy enough where mashing the #1 key is enough to go through your content. Go play axe warrior instead?

Lol, maybe because it cannot keep up with other classes since its sustain damage is crap, which is also the reflection of bad AA’s.

i already made bolt, they better get me kittening sword skils…

Retsuko.2035:

I’m pretty excited about the idea of using a warhorn on elementalist. Just imagine calling the storms with your warhorn, and depending on your attunement you get to use a high DPS skill or some other utility skill giving out some sort of condition or ally buff. Just like all weapons on ele give a range of different types of skills.

Why does ele need an auto attack chain skill for DPS? This is not hellokitty online where things are made easy enough where mashing the #1 key is enough to go through your content. Go play axe warrior instead?

I don’t mean to be rude, but apparently you don’t understand the issue with lacking melee cleave. As if we are given warhorn we will be the last profession to lack it. No, Lightning Hammer doesn’t count because you give up 21 abilities for 5 that aren’t even a permanent thing like Engi weapon kits.

As I have said time and time again in this thread, there is NOTHING wrong with getting Warhorn as a new weapon. However, this is the wrong time to do so. What they need to give each profession is not so much a new way to play something old, but to start rounding out what each one lacks. Guardian for instance lacked really good options for ranged abilities; therefore, the Longbow and traps were the solution.

Warhorn as an offhand can either be support or as you have said AoE. We are NOT lacking in those categories for ANY weapon combo. Could it do something new that we don’t have? ABSOLUTELY! Can it out perform Focus and Dagger? Possibly! But would that solve the issue? NO! Our main hands will still be crap compared to our great offhands.

As a main hand it could do cone-based AE to make up for a lack of cleave, or it could be a main-hand focused on single-target AE. But…our current off-hands are strongest in close range. So either the Warhorn would have to be strong enough to work on its own from range…or compete with the other main hands and staff.

It doesn’t have to be sword. It just has to be a main-hand weapon that gives: cleave, mobility and burst (in more than 1 attunement). Then it can be compared to the other main-hands and staff. Otherwise, it’ll be a lesser alternative. This is why the Ele’s are so PO’d about the idea of Warhorn. It’s not bad. It’s just not what we as a profession need. We WANT to play with new things. We NEED some new flavor in our profession to liven things up. Warhorn at this point cannot fulfill either of those…and still be a Warhorn.

Why do people keep comparing Sword to Dagger? Dagger is not a true Melee weapon, it has 300-600 range skills and no real auto attack chain, it’s not the same! Yes it’s close(ish) range but it doesn’t make it a melee weapon, I’d class it more as a close/medium range caster weapon.

I imagine sword being more 130 range with auto attack chains, that is a melee weapon.

Doesn’t really matter since it seems Warhorn is rather likely, just getting tired of reading “We already have a melee weapon, we don’t need another (sword)”.

Autumn.8043:

Why do people keep comparing Sword to Dagger? Dagger is not a true Melee weapon, it has 300-600 range skills and no real auto attack chain, it’s not the same! Yes it’s close(ish) range but it doesn’t make it a melee weapon, I’d class it more as a close/medium range caster weapon.

I imagine sword being more 130 range with auto attack chains, that is a melee weapon.

Doesn’t really matter since it seems Warhorn is rather likely, just getting tired of reading “We already have a melee weapon, we don’t need another (sword)”.

There is a microscopic chance they actually read this subforum and once they see most people do not like the idea of a warhorn, they will change it. #believejustnotinkarl

My worst desing:

Swapping attument no longer change weapon skills.
Ele can swap weapons.
Atumments only pops effects asimilated to them.
Fire 10s cd, Water 15s cd, Air 20s cd, earth 30s cd.

Staff:

1. Chain: Fireball>Fireball>Exhausting Fireball /burn 10endurance on foes/
2. Lava Font now also apply burn
3. Burning Retreat or #3 Geyser now grants regen, last longer, remove conditions
4. Unsteady Ground now aoe pulses kd and bleed
5. Meteor Shower

Scepter:

1. Air autoattack from scepter now on stage one and two apply voulerability, on stage 3 apply blind
2. Dust Devil or #2 Water Trident now remove conditio
3. Pheonix

Dagger main hand:

1. air autoattack from dagger main hand
2. Firegrab or #2 Twin Head Drake’s Breath now cone on left side work like cone of cold and on right side work like drake’s breath
3. Burining Speed

Dagger off hand:

1. Ride the Lightning
2. Updraft

Focus:

1. Magnetic wave or #4 Swirling Winds
2. Obsidian Flesh

For tempest we could get something like terrain manifestation of elements: it change terrain (not for real/ no obstacles) with effects like ranger spirits kind of from original gw.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

My worst desing:

Swapping attument no longer change weapon skills.
Ele can swap weapons.
Atumments only pops effects asimilated to them.
Fire 10s cd, Water 15s cd, Air 20s cd, earth 30s cd.

Staff:

1. Chain: Fireball>Fireball>Exhausting Fireball /burn 10endurance on foes/
2. Lava Font now also apply burn
3. Burning Retreat or #3 Geyser now grants regen, last longer, remove conditions
4. Unsteady Ground now aoe pulses kd and bleed
5. Meteor Shower

Scepter:

1. Air autoattack from scepter now on stage one and two apply voulerability, on stage 3 apply blind
2. Dust Devil or #2 Water Trident now remove conditio
3. Pheonix

Dagger main hand:

1. air autoattack from dagger main hand
2. Firegrab or #2 Twin Head Drake’s Breath now cone on left side work like cone of cold and on right side work like drake’s breath
3. Burining Speed

Dagger off hand:

1. Ride the Lightning
2. Updraft

Focus:

1. Magnetic wave or #4 Swirling Winds
2. Obsidian Flesh

---

For tempest we could get something like terrain manifestation of elements: it change terrain (not for real/ no obstacles) with effects like ranger spirits kind of from original gw.

Nerf incoming…..

Autumn.8043:

Why do people keep comparing Sword to Dagger? Dagger is not a true Melee weapon, it has 300-600 range skills and no real auto attack chain, it’s not the same! Yes it’s close(ish) range but it doesn’t make it a melee weapon, I’d class it more as a close/medium range caster weapon.

I imagine sword being more 130 range with auto attack chains, that is a melee weapon.

Doesn’t really matter since it seems Warhorn is rather likely, just getting tired of reading “We already have a melee weapon, we don’t need another (sword)”.

What are you on about? dagger is a short ranged weapon (most skills between 240-400 range) that brings a lot of mobility. The mobility is needed to make our short ranged gameplay viable. Bringing in another short ranged mainhand weapon would be stupid and won’t add anything to the game. Especially if you make the range even shorter. We’re no tank.

I’d rather see a good alternative to using staff in raids/WvW. That means a weapon with large group content usability and long range, preferebly 1200. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a warhorn getting 1200 range.

Retsuko.2035:

Autumn.8043:

Why do people keep comparing Sword to Dagger? Dagger is not a true Melee weapon, it has 300-600 range skills and no real auto attack chain, it’s not the same! Yes it’s close(ish) range but it doesn’t make it a melee weapon, I’d class it more as a close/medium range caster weapon.

I imagine sword being more 130 range with auto attack chains, that is a melee weapon.

Doesn’t really matter since it seems Warhorn is rather likely, just getting tired of reading “We already have a melee weapon, we don’t need another (sword)”.

What are you on about? dagger is a short ranged weapon (most skills between 240-400 range) that brings a lot of mobility. The mobility is needed to make our short ranged gameplay viable. Bringing in another short ranged mainhand weapon would be stupid and won’t add anything to the game. Especially if you make the range even shorter. We’re no tank.

I’d rather see a good alternative to using staff in raids/WvW. That means a weapon with large group content usability and long range, preferebly 1200. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a warhorn getting 1200 range.

Dagger is a close ranged Point-Based AoE weapon. It is NOT a melee weapon. It has no burst and, arguably, only has 2 mobility skills as one has to connect before it can even be used a mobility skill.

Adding an actual melee weapon with cleave would add more to the profession than you evidently realize.

So, if Warhorn was added with 1200 range…what main-hand goes as far? Uh, none. What main-hand is actually good outside of close range? None. If Warhorn was added as a main-hand with 1200 range…what off-hand goes as far? None. What off-hand is actually good outside of close range? None.

THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM WITH WARHORN! It CAN be a wonderful weapon. It can add something new, but it is only used in ONE hand. There is no synergy with a long-range one-handed option. We could make it two-handed…but then it competes with staff and would either fail OR JUST DO THE SAME THING.

Now, I would strongly advocate Warhorn as a one-handed range option…if Scepter got a rework to be better in mid-long range as a single target option. However, that isn’t the case. Adding Warhorn, sure, it could spice things up in the short-term. But in the long run it’ll add very little new to the profession. That’s why Sword, Axe, or Mace would be the BEST weapons to currently give us. We have AMAZING offhands. We need equally amazing main-hands that can do more than use a few abilities regularly.

I can already see it… Air magic war horn skill: Fog of war (gain stealth for 3 sec). I should stop thinking about it because the idea of more stealth in game makes me sick.

Fade.1743:

Dagger is a close ranged Point-Based AoE weapon. It is NOT a melee weapon. It has no burst and, arguably, only has 2 mobility skills as one has to connect before it can even be used a mobility skill.

Adding an actual melee weapon with cleave would add more to the profession than you evidently realize.

So, if Warhorn was added with 1200 range…what main-hand goes as far? Uh, none. What main-hand is actually good outside of close range? None. If Warhorn was added as a main-hand with 1200 range…what off-hand goes as far? None. What off-hand is actually good outside of close range? None.

THIS IS THE ENTIRE PROBLEM WITH WARHORN! It CAN be a wonderful weapon. It can add something new, but it is only used in ONE hand. There is no synergy with a long-range one-handed option. We could make it two-handed…but then it competes with staff and would either fail OR JUST DO THE SAME THING.

Now, I would strongly advocate Warhorn as a one-handed range option…if Scepter got a rework to be better in mid-long range as a single target option. However, that isn’t the case. Adding Warhorn, sure, it could spice things up in the short-term. But in the long run it’ll add very little new to the profession. That’s why Sword, Axe, or Mace would be the BEST weapons to currently give us. We have AMAZING offhands. We need equally amazing main-hands that can do more than use a few abilities regularly.

Perhaps that is the point though? Like, for example:

Elementalist weapons aren’t about burst or defense or support, that’s what their attunements are for. Ele weapons are more about range. You have weapons meant for a specific range (although Focus tends to have overshadowing defensive utility) and Staff is build primarily for range without much utility for close range and then you have things like Dagger that is built primarily for close range and the only thing it can do well with range is moving closer to the target (mobility).

So with all that said, why does it make sense that you can only use range OR melee? Is it illegal to mix mid-range and long range? Or what if Warhorn was more a long range + mobility weapon? It’s synergy can be that it helps move close to enemies for your other weapons while also being able to disengage and still pressure the foe.

Leo G.4501:

Perhaps that is the point though? Like, for example:

Elementalist weapons aren’t about burst or defense or support, that’s what their attunements are for. Ele weapons are more about range. You have weapons meant for a specific range (although Focus tends to have overshadowing defensive utility) and Staff is build primarily for range without much utility for close range and then you have things like Dagger that is built primarily for close range and the only thing it can do well with range is moving closer to the target (mobility).

So with all that said, why does it make sense that you can only use range OR melee? Is it illegal to mix mid-range and long range? Or what if Warhorn was more a long range + mobility weapon? It’s synergy can be that it helps move close to enemies for your other weapons while also being able to disengage and still pressure the foe.

In theory, yes that’s how it should work. In practice, it’s failed on almost every account. Now, I haven’t used staff in PvP so do take my knowledge and experience on that weapon from a PvE point of view.

Staff…is most effective in PvE at close range. Shorter travel time for Fireballs plus standing in Lava Font is much more effective than standing at range. Dagger, yes, it is built for close-range and does its job…pretty well. However, it’s pretty much mandatory for builds now to go Fresh Air because Lightning Whip is TOO good to pass up. The other auto-attacks completely suck in comparison. Scepter is just…it really needs a rework as only Phoenix is a good ability and DT can be passable.

It’s not wrong for most other professions. It’s more wrong for Elementalist because Warhorn would HAVE to compete with something. If it’s mobility and damage, then it competes with OH Dagger, which also has melee options and defensive abilities with it. If it’s better at range and support, then either the range part will be pointless because the two main hands we have can’t function to their fullest extent at mid-range…or it competes with Focus.

The problem boils down to the abilities either being redundant, a flat-out upgrade, or useless. It’s just not going to add enough long-term diversity to a build like a melee weapon would. I know we’re going to have more Elite specs in the future. And here in lies another problem. We can only have 1 elite spec at a time based on Anet’s current design. So as soon as we get the melee weapon we are desperately lacking, mind you that if we don’t get one we will be the ONLY profession remaining without access to a weapon (read weapon not utility skill) that can provide melee cleave, that the majority of the Ele community will move onto that.

I WANT Warhorn to be good and to be given its fair slot as a choice. But in the current environment there is very little it can add and very little synergy with the current 1h options for both Main hands and Off hands. If scepter got a rework to be a good burst range option, I guarantee that they could make a Warhorn offhand to synergize VERY well with this concept.

What I’m saying at the end of the day is to not just look at how it changes things in this expansion but future updates. If we do get a warhorn, there’s going to be an outcry from the community. Staff will probably continue to dominate all forms of PvE in terms of damage, support, and utility. This is just a very bad time for a non-melee 1 hand to come out. They need to show us something awesome for our first Elite spec. Not more of the same.

Fade.1743:

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a warhorn, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

But Necro already has Warhorn
I don’t understand

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on. There’s not much I would trade my Locusts and Wail of Doom for, except for maybe a block, evade, iframe, blink, teleport, reflect, leap or stability. Any of those would be nice, but that’s not the point. I’m sure it will be just as good on Ele.

Here’s the thing. Warhorn is not a bad idea for an elite spec. I think it could add something to the profession.

However, it is a bad idea for the first elite spec. Yes, it could offer new ways to do damage and support….but with an offhand. The issue (as I’ve stated previously in this thread) is that our two other off-hands are the strongest weapons we have after staff. They are very diverse and can bother cover a wide range of situations. Warhorn would have to be as strong as those two in order to be considered a side-grade, but really… Dagger Offhand is great for a close-range brawler while Focus is great for mid to close range with defensive and support options. The two of those cover pretty much all facets of the game.

The issue is that we DESPERATELY need a main-hand to go with out amazing offhands. We are still going to be the only profession without a melee weapon that can properly cleave and use an Auto-attack chain. Lightning Hammer does NOT fit this role as you have to give up 21 abilities in order to gain 5 more. Warhorn COULD be a cone-based damage option…however…then it has to compete with staff.

The elementalist currently needs (from a new weapon) Cleave, Mobility, and Burst. As much as I LOVE the idea of sword filling this niche, I’d be happy with axe or mace as well. Warhorn cannot be able to fill all these niches. It has to be either an off-hand or some cone-based (or worse single-target) ranged damage. Which would be fine IF AND ONLY IF we had other elite specs to fill in the niches we lack. Again, let me reiterate. I agree it can be good. This is just what the Elementalist needs in order to have a full and unique toolkit.

My mesmer would gladly take lightning whip instead of my sword aa

wasnt the talk at start about 12 new ele skills? means whatever comes is mainhand.. warhorn wouldnt bite either focus or dagger offhand.

Azure.8670:

Fade.1743:

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Actually necros are getting shouts and they’re also getting a warhorn, so this won’t be true unless they give shouts to two professions.

But Necro already has Warhorn
I don’t understand

That said, Eles making a fuss about Warhorn is silly. Warhorn is pretty great on all three classes it is on. There’s not much I would trade my Locusts and Wail of Doom for, except for maybe a block, evade, iframe, blink, teleport, reflect, leap or stability. Any of those would be nice, but that’s not the point. I’m sure it will be just as good on Ele.

Here’s the thing. Warhorn is not a bad idea for an elite spec. I think it could add something to the profession.

However, it is a bad idea for the first elite spec. Yes, it could offer new ways to do damage and support….but with an offhand. The issue (as I’ve stated previously in this thread) is that our two other off-hands are the strongest weapons we have after staff. They are very diverse and can bother cover a wide range of situations. Warhorn would have to be as strong as those two in order to be considered a side-grade, but really… Dagger Offhand is great for a close-range brawler while Focus is great for mid to close range with defensive and support options. The two of those cover pretty much all facets of the game.

The issue is that we DESPERATELY need a main-hand to go with out amazing offhands. We are still going to be the only profession without a melee weapon that can properly cleave and use an Auto-attack chain. Lightning Hammer does NOT fit this role as you have to give up 21 abilities in order to gain 5 more. Warhorn COULD be a cone-based damage option…however…then it has to compete with staff.

The elementalist currently needs (from a new weapon) Cleave, Mobility, and Burst. As much as I LOVE the idea of sword filling this niche, I’d be happy with axe or mace as well. Warhorn cannot be able to fill all these niches. It has to be either an off-hand or some cone-based (or worse single-target) ranged damage. Which would be fine IF AND ONLY IF we had other elite specs to fill in the niches we lack. Again, let me reiterate. I agree it can be good. This is just what the Elementalist needs in order to have a full and unique toolkit.

My mesmer would gladly take lightning whip instead of my sword aa

You want to trade an autoattack that applies vulnerability and either rips a boon or does more damage if no boons are active on the target for one that does the same amount of DPS or less?

SWEET! Sure…do less damage and provide less support! I’ll gladly take a very useful and versatile auto-attack over lightning whip.

Mesmer sword aa vs boons: 0.847/s
Mesmer sword aa vs no boons: 0.927/s
Lightning whip: 1.47/s

Lightning whip is in a whole other league compared to most melee autos. Virtually anything would be improved by lightning whip instead of its actual aa.

Can you imagine warhorn as a mainhand? Your character would run around blowing a horn over and over again.

It would look rather silly and I’d end up turning off my audio for the game to not become a MLG video.

What if you get another attunment along with warhorn.You get more weapon skills than any other class

Slapinator.4196:

What if you get another attunment along with warhorn.You get more weapon skills than any other class

then you don’t understand the issue at all if that is what you have to say

Slapinator.4196:

What if you get another attunment along with warhorn.You get more weapon skills than any other class

It’s not about the number of weapon skills at all. People do not want sword because it has more weapon skills, it’s about the functionality of the weapon.

Slapinator.4196:

What if you get another attunment along with warhorn.You get more weapon skills than any other class

The big points are

The Warhorn is just a focus with a different shape.
The Warhorn is a silly weapon to begin with and the worst weapon in the game
It is generally seen as a support weapon, the ele doesn’t need that
While it may fit the idea of “Storm calling” that the tempest seems to be going for, Sword can also fit the role of tempest with “Deadly flurry of slashes enhanced by storm magic turning the wielder into a living tempest”
We have no true melee weapon. dagger is akin to throwing daggers since all dagger attacks are generally short but ranged.
Outside of some massive paradigm shifting mechanic. there is no way the warhorn could be used to offer anything new to an ele playstyle

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_Warhorn_Skin

let that sink in…

Knighthonor.4061:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_Warhorn_Skin

let that sink in…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_Sword_Skin

Knighthonor.4061:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_Warhorn_Skin

let that sink in…

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/19555191.jpg

Black Lion Tempest Collection – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tempest_Weapon_Collection