Guild Wars 2

All seems well and just in need of just a bit of polish minus the gyros and some accuracy on the #3 hammer skill. The normal ones have a duration of around 15 seconds and seem to have lackluster performance when compared to other equivalent skills on the engineer. Extending the time to say 30ish seconds for the normal ones (not the elite stealth gyro which is acceptable) and giving them more oomph and following speed seems like a good place to start.

lorddarkflare.9186:

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros unreliable? First two minors not worth it?

Must…resist…. mustn’t say…told you so…

Get over yourself.

Everyone knew that there were plenty of issues.

We were hoping that some of them would be fixed beforehand, but if the past two weeks has taught us anything, it is that pretty much everyone wanted to re-write half the class immediately after seeing what it can do.

Edit: I can’t be bothered arguing, morale around here is bad enough and engi players have taken enough nonsense as it is.

wolfyrik.2017:

lorddarkflare.9186:

wolfyrik.2017:

Gyros unreliable? First two minors not worth it?

Must…resist…. mustn’t say…told you so…

Get over yourself.

Everyone knew that there were plenty of issues.

We were hoping that some of them would be fixed beforehand, but if the past two weeks has taught us anything, it is that pretty much everyone wanted to re-write half the class immediately after seeing what it can do.

Well excuse me for breathing, Captain Humourless. Who died and made you king of the internet?

Well if it pleases, your majesty, I don’t understand why your ire is directed at me. I didn’t write the scrapper. I wasn’t the one kitten-visited every mistake made across every class over the last 3 years on this spec, but I took plenty of flak for questioning those mistakes when they were announced as part of the scrapper.

What do you know, it turns out people who play the game can learn and spot potential flaws in the making.

Oh and who do you think you are attacking me for havin a bit of laugh?

Get over yourself.

Smug superiority in a feedback thread instead of…feedback. Not helpful.

Last I will discuss this. I do not want to further crap the thread with snipes.

Taits: 10/10
all great, might even need some small nerfs such as add an ICD to Expert Examination and Stabilization Core or lower adaptive armor to 80 toughness per stack.

Hammer: 7/10
Auto attack chain has WAY to much delay between each attack. Smacking an invulnerable golem I was able to get 19 auto chains in one minute, which is TERRIBLE when the whole auto chain has a 1.5s cast time on the tooltip. In comparison I was able to get 18 tool kit auto chains in 1 minute which has 33% LONGER cast time because the whole chain has 2s cast on tooltip. The auto attack also connects to targets at 170 range, so why not change the attack to attempt to auto attack at that range instead of 130. Skills 1, 2, and 4 have a hard time hitting a player moving away from you even when they are listed as in range, could be related to latency as I play between 50-90 ping. The leap skill is awesome as it has 3 leap finishers and evade time on it, however when used on a close target the 2nd leap will take you way past your target most the time and miss. The animation feels really clunky and slow and provides no movement increase out of combat compared to just a player running with swiftness and I am fairly sure it takes longer then 1.75 sec to cast the whole chain of leaps and you are rooted for a very short duration at the end of the final leap. Skills 2, 4, and 5 feel great and work great other than the tracking fleeing targets.

Gyros: 4/10
1st and foremost Function Gyro needs to be able to be bound to it’s own key like how aoe loot can be while still functioning with the ‘f’ key. We need to be able to use the function gyro when in close range to target so for some examples we would be able double stomp, use it with Stabilization core to gain stability while we are stomping, or double rez without having to walk away from our target to summon the gyro then walk back to target to rez. Gyros tend to have minds of their own and deviate from their task; I have summoned function gyro many times to stomp someone and watched it just float around a few seconds as if pondering if it really wants to stomp them before attempting to stomp them. There is an upside to function gyro AI though: I have seen it use it’s 15 second duration before and stomp a foe, then go over to stomp another or rez an ally(this is great behavior). I think function gyro having low hp is fine.
Bulwark gyro is a solid gyro and has a solid toolbelt skill on a solid cooldown; no complaints for it.
Blast gyro, really? I am using a hammer, why would I want to push my target away. How about remove blast gyro and give us a cripple gyro that is beefy and follows the tagged enemy around and does very low damage and cripples them for 2 seconds every 4 seconds or something of that nature.
Purge gyro has good potential, didn’t use, but have read has terrible AI since it has an attack? I personally think it would be neat if it had high hp like a player and instead of curing condis it transferred them to itself and when it dies it would release all of the condis remaining on it to enemies near it.
Shredder gyro: haven’t used it, probably would only use on stationary high hp bosses like tequatl or on a capture point in spvp. maybe give it a boon rip every 3 seconds since shredder?
Stealth Gyro: Just make it where gyro will always keep up with the scrapper and never let the scrapper out it’s 300 range.
All of the gyros have pretty good toolbelt skills and decent cooldowns.

Sadly I see no reason to take gyros over strong kits. You just kitten yourself so freakin hard.

Bulwark gyro? I can tank enough players without it. I can take toolkit for better abilities.
Purge gyro? I can take elixir gun to do that 10 x more.
Blast gyro? I got grenades, mines and flame thrower.
Shredder gyro? I got..well thats the only decent one.
Sneak gyro, why take it in pvp? I got elexir S.

Please change the AI of the Support oriented gyros (Medic, Purge, Bulwark, Stealth) To stick closer to your player, please. I would like to be able to run in a straight line without having to wait for my gyro to catch up.

MY thoughts

Hammer:
- #1 feels slow because aftercast is just terribly terribly LONG. Fix after cast.
- #2 is awesome, really it is BUT make it activate a bit quicker
- #3 is a bit buggy but cool. Make it leap/leap/blast maybe? Daze not always going on the target
- #4 change animation. PLEASE! Make it similar to #2. Anim sucks. Skills is pretty good BUT make it wider cone effect
- #5 is amazing, no change needed at all

Gyros
- TERRIBLE! Idea is bad but execution is even worse
- AI pathing problems! I had my Medic Gyro go places! Why the hell did it feel it was OK to charge at wall and stay there? They can’t keep up with player. MEdic gyro flying around does wasted heals due to moving from target to target and AOE heal procing on the way to target when there’s no one around.
- Radius on most of them is small, they are buggy, easily destructible.
- Their toolbelt skills are 10x better than gyros themselves. Honest.
- Stealth gyro, PLEASE GET RID OF THIS CRAP. Not only it does NOT keep up with the player it’s kitten pretty much everywhere. PvP, WvW, PvE. Waste of a slot. Mortar is better due to hammer #3 and evasive blasting powder keg blast finisher going with scrapper
- Function Gyro, 99,9% useless in pve

So we got stupid ai uninspired gyros that are just terrible. I wonder where did our original scrapper idea go? If you check Rocket Charge (trailer) it’s all fire. Entire Elite Spec seems like it was done a week before reveal.

Ok, here’s my feedback:

- All gyros move too slow. The radius for gyros like the healing gyro are small to begin with, but because the gyros can’t keep up with players, you don’t get enough uptime of their effects.

- Gyro cooldowns are too long – Sneak gyro is the one exception, but otherwise the cooldowns are too long for such lackluster abilities.

- AI controlled, periodic condition cleanse will never be good – You could give this gyro a 0 second cooldown and it wouldn’t be worth taking. Periodic condition removal by itself is mediocre, but having only periodic cleansing relies on 1) the gyro staying alive and 2) the gyro deciding to cleanse you instead of an ally makes this waaaaay too unreliable.

- Function gyro is too slow to stomp – Considering the low hp of gyros, I don’t see why his gyro should have such a long stomp cast.

- Gyro hp is too low – Gyros tend to just get cleaved before they can do anything useful.

- Sneak Gyro isn’t worth using, even without it attacking things. I’m sorry, but it’s just not stealth if you can see the gyro. If the only way you can argue using this is to stack stealth, then explode the gyro, there’s no reason to take this over bomb kit smoke field blasting.

- Hammer is solid – Very solid weapon. The leap is a bit wild, but I think that’s something I could get used to.

I didn’t see any advantage in the Function Gyro stomp since another player was able to run over to a downed player and stomp him faster than the Function Gyro executed its stomp. :/

The Hammer
Summary: This weapon does average overall damage over time. I hesitate to say weak or poor damage because of the advantages that are afforded to us Scrappers from our trait lines. It is my belief that this is fine due to the utility provided by this weapon’s skill set and the associated traits. I do not believe it needs a buff.

Hammer Skills
The Details
AA: Honestly this skill chain sees very little use in actual combat. Buffing this skill to the detriment of other skills could serve to reduce the overall potential for this weapon to be good. At the same time however when your other skills are off cool-down this will be your pressure.

Electro-whirl: Good damage over-all. Performs great.

Rocket Charge: This skill requires great positioning by the engineer, standing at about 300 range and at about 15 – 20deg diagonal from the target to land all three hits. Failing to execute this properly can lead you to miss at least one blow or worst yet place you in unwanted positions. It is impossible to use this skill with confidence on ledges, cliffs or even walls in keeps or towers and even bridges. As a result the combination of skill 5 + Rocket Charge is not something you can call on every time from your front-line engineers when you need it. Also this skill unfortunately doesn’t give any mobility to the engineer as you arrive at your destination just as quickly as you would have with just swiftness.

Shock Shield: Feels fine. Good Damage. Gets the job done.

Thunderclap: Gets the job done in many situations. The initial and second pulses should in my opinion have the highest damage bursts for this skill. Most people with a brain will have walked out of this by the third pulse as it isn’t at all hard to do. Alternatively if you can keep someone standing in this as a Scrapper then I feel the over all damage pulses should scale higher as this skill pulses to an end.

The Traits
Summary: Without talking about the minor traits I feel that they do a great job of making the Engineer tanky especially for WvW. Lots of synergy opportunities with the Explosives, Firearms, Inventions and Alchemy Trait lines. The minors however don’t feel like they add any flavor to the Scrapper, in-fact unfortunately I feel as though if they were removed this elite specialization would feel exactly the same with no minors at all.

Choice Traits
Shocking Speed: Good. Gets the job done.

Stabilization Core: At the moment you take this for the stability on yourself in weird situations because your Gyro will not stomp a warrior before he has vengeanced, if it stomps at all.

Recovery Matrix: Great trait. Don’t leave home without it. Trust me, in WvW zergs you will need it.
—-

Rapid Regeneration: Due to Engineer’s moderate health pool this trait is what makes the Scrapper WvW frontline material. Great trait.

Expert Examination: Good trait that can make you feel even more tanky when used effectively. Great choice over passive regen and damage mitigation through skill that still allows you to play aggressively.

Mass Momentum: Great trait synergy in this trait line and one other place outside.
—-

Adaptive Armor: Great trait. Makes you more resilient against show stopping condition bombs, a necessity for Engineers that hope to be at the front lines especially in WvW.

Final Salvo: Very clutch and specific. Possibly the beginning of any counter attack by a Scrapper who is being pummeled by it’s opponents. When a Gyro dies (before you do) the daze plus lightning field allows you to retaliate with hammer no. 3 however it does not feel like you have the damage to effectively retaliate well against an opponent. Perhaps this trait should also buff all damage while in a lightning field by 10% as well, otherwise the only really good option is to run away.

Perfectly Weighted: I will start by saying that this is an ok trait. Dump the +10% damage from Hammers and roll it all back as base into the weapon, +10% damage traits are not interesting at all. Instead grant either fury + stability on a successful evade OR a passive +20% critical chance for x duration + stability OR +150 ferocity for x duration + Stability. This way Scrappers can feel like they aren’t running a kitten weapon and at the same time if they take this trait they are saying that they are going to brawl with skill and want to receive benefits for doing so.

The Minor Traits
Summary: The rolling momentum feel that is intended is there however you have to be losing or winning to turn over any benefits. Unfortunately the benefits you receive, except super speed, could be gained from anywhere else but it does offer you the advantage of instantly gaining these advantages to make a turn around. These minors leave you with a mixed feeling as well as a feeling that they could be so much more. You are not taking this trait line for the minors, that much is for sure.

Function Gyro: Sometimes the gyro has better things to do than stomp out your opponent. In some cases it will just be DPS’d down before it could dream of doing it’s job by just that downed opponent alone unless they aren’t running a power oriented spec. It’s sole value seems to be in rezzing allies, which is good but overall this trait does not seem to particularly valuable for a Scrapper.

Decisive Renown: Great trait but because no other traits give you anything immediately useful it to a Scrapper this rolling momentum trait gives you nothing unless you were already going to win in the first place. When you combine this with the Function Gyro you are effectively sitting on two traits that for the most part are completely silent until something note-worthy happens.

Impact Savant: Outgoing stun durations are negligible in any effect. Incoming stun durations are also quite negligible. If you are going to be locked out, these do not prevent that or feel like they make you resilient against them. You still get chain dazed and you still can not cast skills. Unimpressive and don’t feel like they have any impact in real combat at all.

Recommended Solution
Rework the minor traits. The Gyros should be the focus and have a noticeable role. See this reference for ongoing discussions as to one idea as to this could be done: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Chaith-s-Idea-for-Robust-Scrapper-Identity/first#post5559135

The Gyros
Summary: Too slow, become immobile to cast skills, effective radius are often way too small to be usable and in order to detonate them successfully you have to wait until they manage to catch up with you before their detonation skills are usable. In order for Final Salvo to be useful the health pools have to be acutely balanced. In their current format they don’t stand a chance at being effective in a 1vX scenario making them effective tools only in dueling if you trait for them with Final Salvo. All tool belt skills for each of the Gyros are extremely useful making these the true reason to want to take any Gyros in your heal, utilities or elites.

Main feed back is that gryo leash range needs to be greatly reduced

also, if stealth gyro dies, you are instantly revealed instead of allowing you to run out your stealth, When it dies it counts as an attack, so it will will reveal you instantly, and if you have sigil it may proc them as well.

like the traits, LOVE THE hammer,

hammer 3 needs a bit of tunning, you often will only land 2/3 of the hits casue 1 will make you jump away and then you jump back to your target

I’ll try to keep my response to scrapper short since most of everyone here has commented on the scrapper problems.

Hammer:

I enjoy the hammer so far, all of it’s abilities seem to work well with each other and provides a decent amount of damage. I feel the auto attack could be a little faster and people said the number 3 is all over the place and could use a little tweaking. I don’t want to use grenade auto attack anymore so if Hammer auto needs a slight damage buff I would be grateful for that.

Gyros:

They function just like I expected, they are all over the place and seem to target enemies even though they don’t have any attack skills. They shouldn’t wander and just be attached to the engineer at the hip to provide melee support.

What I would like to see:

Like some people have mentioned, I would have really liked to see a Fuel Resource Bar. Managing a resource and using it to keep gyros up would have been awesome. If it isn’t something that can be implemented at this point it would be a great idea for a future engineer elite specialization if you guys plan on making more of them.

That’s all I have, it may not have been much but I hope this feedback helps out.

I spent yesterday evening playing exclusively in Verdant Brink so here are my thoughts in relation to open world functionality.

Hammer

• Skills 2, 4, and 5 feel great, though the cooldown on 5 may be a touch too long.
• Skill 1 could do with some tweaking to make it feel more impactful, both functionally and visually. Some minor flair on the third strike would go a long way in making it appear more meaningful.
• Skill 3, as others have already pointed out, could do with some adjustments. It’s not as reliable as it should be.

Gyros

• Definitely need some heavy fixes for them to be useful. It’s hard to justify using one over a weapon kit.

Profession Ability

• An interesting idea that I’ve only used once or twice in the open world. It’s cumbersome to move from targeting a champion/legendary to target a downed player and then move back without messing up your positioning or missing a tell from the boss. Perhaps changing it to work on a proximity basis around the player would be better.

Traits

• Minor traits are underwhelming. It’s hard to view them being useful except in very niche situations.
• Adept traits are extremely underwhelming. In an open world context they don’t have much impact.
• Master and Grandmaster traits synergize well enough with each other and with other traitlines. Could perhaps be buffed a little to work more on their own.
• Final Salvo won’t see much use with Gyros in their current state.

In general I think the specialization is fun, but it’s hard to justify running it over previous open world builds. I can see it working quite well in PvP and WvW, although I’ve yet to try it there myself. I think it has the potential to be extremely fun, but right now the hammer is the only part of the specialization that I’m truly happy with.

So finally, here I go with my feedback!
I wanted to play the scrapper long enogh before giving a review, that’s why it took some time. I’ve put a lot of effort into it, so I’d appreciate some feedback, especially from ANet.

Hammer

#1
The auto attack is perfectly fine as it is. Weaker than the burst skills, but still good enough to stack a bit might or vulnerability or to just cover some time until other skills are ready again. No need for buffs imo, I don’t want the scrapper / engi to become an aa class.

#2
Good damage and effect, but the reflect should be up faster, at least as fast as the flame thrower. You can’t really react to most attacks with this skill wich makes it just a spammer. But overall a good skill.

#3
Nice skill, but useless on small platforms, but I’m fine with that. Yet I noticed that the second attack of the chain often misses. Maybe a small pathfinding issue but overall nothing too bad. Good skill.

#4
Strange but good skill. I wonder why I can block attacks from behind with it but I also wouldn’t complain about that. The animation looks a bit “meh” but, a great skill.

#5
Aweseome skill, but it would be nice if it would also be a blast finisher on impact. So on it’s own it would be a lightning + blast, but you also could use it in already existing fields as another blast due to the blast finisher / field order. Would give this skill some depth.

Gyros
Overall gyro CD still bugs me a bit. You want them to be dead as fast as possible to reuse them again. Just let the CD start at summon, not dead. Increase elite gyro CD a bit.
Another flaw, AI and cliffs. I’ll go into that later.
Also let them be blast finishers when they die or explode via skill. This will not be stronger as turrets already are blasts. It’s just something engineers are used to.

Medic Gyro
The AI is lackluster. The gyro does not know where to go and pulses often when noone is around. I’d rather blow him up immediately for 200 heal per sec instead of the most unlikely achievable 250 heal per sec when he ALWAYS heals you. The gyro is also never ever as good as the alternatives.
I suggest to increase the radius of the gyro to 240-300 and make him STICK to you. No flying behind you, just make him STICK to you. Let him ignore cliffs like a miniature, flying to you, not around edges. Also make the pulse every second, lower the initial heal and increase the overall heal. Lower the cd by ~5 sec. This way you can use him like a healing aura.

The toolbelt skill is aweseom though, pretty strong with the hammer and protection / water field is aweseom aswell. Great skill.

Bulwark Gyro
This skill is perfectly fine, you know why? Because of the big aoe it affects. You won’t run away from it. It’s toolbelt is awesome aswell, I really like the whole kit, great work!
Just make him follow you over cliffs aswell please …

Purge Gyro
I can’t think of any situation where you could use this garbage can and it’s garbage friend toolbelt skill. The gyro itself has the same issues as the medic gyro: can’t find a target, struggles with AI, won’t follow over cliffs, slow reaction for cleanses.
I suggest to give the purge gyro the ability to absorb ALL conditions from 5 allies around him aslong as it lives. When you blow it up the conditions are spread to up to 5 targets.

As for the insanely weak toolbelt ability, You might want to add weakness, vulnerbility, condi cleanse, damage, duration, stacks or anything like that. It’s extremly weak at the moment. Oh maybe a stunbreak?

Blast Gyro
First of all, it misses. It goes beyond the target, turns around, explodes out of range. Second HUGE issue: It can’t crit. It’s damage comes from the gyro itself wich has a 4% crit chance like every minion does.

Suggestions: let it inherit the crit chance of the owner. Also make it NOT explode by itself. Let it just chase a target, let it stick close to it. Then, when you press the button again, you let it explode manually with the current automatic explosion effect. This gives the skill some depth and it’s not too much apm required, engineers are use to stuff like this. Also lower the CD 5-10 sec. You lose a whole kit for this, so a damage gyro needs to be good to compete with like a big old bom, grenade barrage, mine field, acid bomb …

About it’s toolbelt, just remove the cast time and maybe add a stunbreak to make it less underwhelming.

Shredder Gyro
This – is the worst. Nearly 0 power damage and the only thing it does is to be a whirl finisher and as we all know, those are soooooo strong. Heh – no they aren’t. Let this one fly ABOVE you, untargetable and stick to you. Let it last about 8sec and the effect shall be a passive whirl finisher on your spot, like an aura. Also – what does the word “shred” remind you of? Exactly – armor shred, aka vulnerability. Give it 1 stack vuln every 0.5 sec + low power damage.

The toolbelt looks pretty cool but it’s again pretty weak. It’d be nice if you could throw this about 600 range and then it puleses only twice with a longer pause between, let both impacts daze and increase the overall damage a bit.

Sneak Gyro
This one is almost perfect. The only issue is it’s AI again. It can’t keep up with you, so let him have the ability to STICK to you. Let him have the ability to go down cliffs so he can follow you. And let it’s explosion when he dies not reveal you. Those will make this gyro very viable! Nice one! Toolbelt is fine aswell!
Also this gyro despritly tries to tackle enemies I attacked, yet it does absolutely nothing but never follow me again until it or the mob dies. Fix this one… :P

Traits

Function Gyro
Can’t complain about this one. Pretty great, but a bit slow finisher.

Shocking Speed
Pretty ok I guess. It would be nice tough, if the super speed duration would be increased a bit or even better -> make super speed a buff that is stripable, yet also stackable. This would help this trait greatly with hammer #3 + lightning field.

Stabilization Core
Uhh somehow I never got this one to work. Never gained any stability from it. ._.‘’ So I pretend it worked and then it would be quite nice. Pretty good trait, IF the gyros get fixed. Right now it’s useless since I won’t be using ANY of the gyros. So: good gyros = I use 1-2 of them = good trait. Otherwise = bad trait.

Recovery Matrix
Well … it’s something I guess? It would be nice if it would do anything else, just … well just something MORE than just granting you protection. How about it also gives your heal skill the ability to ignore heal reductions like from poison. Yet not from regeneration or other skills, only your heal skill.

Decisive Renown
Veeeery situational and probably not much worth. You cannot not take it, but if I could, I wouldn’t. The super speed duration could be longer. Also give it the common “increased revive speed” like other similar traits have too.

Rapid Regeneration
Cool trait, just perfectly fine! Still – make superspeed a boon. Right now there is no supporting, nor counterplay super speed.

Expert Examination
This one is pretty cool too. Just don’t touch it and it’ll be fine and a solid pick!

Mass Momentum
Again, pretty cool. Good and a solid pick!

Impact Savant
Hmmm … now this one is tricky. It looks to me that all scrapper skills just could have had a 25% longer stun / daze duration by default and replacing this trait with something useful instead. It maybe should affect knockback / -down aswell and give a +10% damage modifier to stunned, dazed, knockbacked, knockdowned and floating targets. The whole scrapper traitline misses some general damage modifiers anyway, don’t ya think?

Adaptive Armor
Again, pretty cool. Good and a solid pick!

Final Salvo
Again a tricky one. Probably pretty good if you ask me, especially when you trait for heal on superspeed and super speed on finishers in lightning fields. Fine with it.

Perfectly Weighted
Pretty cool. Good and a solid pick!

So that’s it from my side. Up until now I’ve read all comments and some ideas are really good!I guess with all our inputs and ANets will to change the scrapper for the better, we might get this profession to be really useful, good and fun to play!
Right now, the biggest flaws are the gyros, their AI, behaveor and range. I trust ANet to do a good job, like they did with the chronomancer! I hope this post won’t just get skipped and ANet will make some changes according to this!

greez,
- Ziggy!

So..now that my rage turned into a mix of despair and utter dissapointment im pretty sure i can give a proper review.

First off i want to ask why drones are A.I. ? Why not upkeep skills with drone visuals and a fuel bar as mechanic like the rev got with energy? Why not mantras with drone visuals that show a drone once charged? Signets that show a drone if passive and turn it to a minion if active? Anything else but more a.i. that is as unrelyable as it can get? They cant even keep up with the FRONTLINE BRUISER AND RATHER MOBILE MELEE USING scrapper to go into melee range…or even jog cause not even thats in their movement budget. Why do they try to attack the enemie rather then protect their master with their functions? Why is even anything?!

That out of the way.. lets start with the hammer.

- AA chain: Slow and sluggish..sure its a hammer but deam why is it sooo slow?
whats with the aftercast? And why are the DPS in fullzerk armor with 25 stacks
of might weaker then the bomb AA?

- 2 : Does what it should do and is pretty darn good.. just needs some faster cast
DPS are fine imo.. is more a defensive thing anyways

- 3: As a gap closer? Ehhhh… i guess it works IF there is nothing near the location of
where you want to go. Doesnt work proper upstairs, loves to gravitate towards
anything attackable in between you and your target (even ambient creatures)
If you want to use it to burst something down you can be certain that atleast
1 hit wont connect… also it got me killed quite a lot. Should just jump in place
if you are in range of the target…sorta like heartseeker does. 3rd leap should be
changed to a blast finisher. DPS are perfect on this one.

-4: Works, blocks infront of you, damage is good…but i felt it was a tiny bit too short for
that high CD…might just be me though

-5: Awesome, no complains…cept maybe the CD.. a little less would do.. maybe on trait

Skills…

Medic: It does whatever it wants cept to heal its master, if i would need to choose
to use this or the antitoxin spray for the rest of my playtime i would go for the spray.
Its slow, dies way too fast and its pulses are not worth it. Toolbelt is awesome though
but before i got a bad heal like this i rather never use it at all anymore.

Purge: I got the E-gun.. it does everything the purge does… just better, this one is a failure if i ever saw one. Should be imo merged with the medic and DUCKTAPED to
the scrappers back to stay near its master to do its darn job. Unrelyable if i ever saw unrelyable. Toolbelt got its use… but then again there is the mortar kit…and its toolbelt.

Shredder: It doesnt move what makes it the best of all, it does exactly what it should do and that can tear slow or immobile enemies to shreds…if you supply it with combo fields to dance on of course. Toolbelt is awesome.. but why this thing even got a health bar is beyond me. And dont come with counterplay.. it cant move.. you CAN move away from it easily.

Blast: Well it works for some odd reason the best with pathing. It flys to where its marker goes and nukes itself…well the devil of this thing lay in the numbers cause i do feel its pretty darn weak and why isnt it a blast finisher? Its name pretty much suggests it is. Toolbelt is usefull.. but short.

Sneak: I got no idea who thought it would be a good idea to make this gyro the leader of the anti scrapper rebellion but its a traitor. Its almost like it was programmed to handicap the scrapper in all ways possible. Its slow and got bad pathing what makes it impossible to run with it to combat, it charges enemies that hit it and leave the scrapper behind AND it takes right away all other active gyros on its crusade to infringe the personal space of everything that dares to attack it…what leaves the scrapper behind alone.

Mechanic….

This is a kittenup if i ever saw it. It rarely works, its unrelyable, it got an insane long cooldown, the function gyro gets confused easily and it takes way longer then to do it by hand.. and NO WAY to even turn it off. Also the rezzing function is a gamble.. cause it often doesnt work either. Rather give me no mechanic rather then this nonsence. That stuff feels like an invention trait rather then a mechanic.. and TWO MINOR TRAITS are needed for that BS? Yea.. right… thanks Ireno.. wouldnt want anything nice for once. Why dont you come over and right away beat me with a brass knuckle or a stun gun… is for sure less painfull then this new “mechanic”. Utterly dissapointed in this … also no wonder it wasnt shown on the stream, i guess it wasnt working back then either. This needs a complete rework and i mean COMPLETE. Check the topics with the suggestions for new mechanics… any of these would do.

Traits….

All the minors are pretty useless.. yea.. even the mechanic one and the one that trys to “spice up” the mechanic… but lets go over them in detail.

- Function gyro: 30 sec CD for that unrelyable nonsence? Make it a random invention
trait and nobody would be the wiser.. this mechanic is not on par with any other
spec mechanic in game.. ESPECIALLY not with the druid one that was also made by
you and your team ireno. Thats a big ouch…

- Decisive Renown: This should be merged with the…“mechanic” trait to make it worth
atleast something

- Impact savant: So yea.. engineer got 2 stuns, shield and hammer… and there we go.
Why would anybody slot that if they would have a choice.. what they dont. This
would make a pretty darn epic mesmer trait though.

- Shocking speed: This should be the 2nd minor…

- Stabilisation Core: Another trait arround the “mechanic” that needs two rather
specific things to happen? Why doesnt this work on all gyros on a short ICD?
Ah right.. cause it would be nice.. nevermind.. carry on.

- Recovery Matrix: Good trait, no complains, really usefull for tanky builds

- Rapid Regeneration: Good trait

- Expert Examination: Good trait, cause it works with dazes.. unlike impact savant

- Mass momentum: Good trait, allows for more tanky setups without loosing too much
power, works with juggernaut and perfectly weighted whats a good thing

- Adaptive armor: Thats how you make a grandmaster… no complains

- Final salvo: Should be a minor imo… cause that way the gyros would atleast serve a
purpose if they get destroyed without the need to trait for it.. and lets face it.. they
WILL die easily.

- Perfectly weighted: Good trait.. even if i personally miss some flavour.. i dunno what
flavour though.

That would be my feedback… I only wanted something nice for once… atleast one time in my time as engineer main. Something that makes people WANT me in their groups cause i can do something others cannot… appreciation in wvw for beeing there and pve without having constantly the fear to get replaced by a guard or ele. This spec certainly wont grant me my wish… and who is gonna need this nonsence in a raid? Nobody… so yea back to solo… was a nice pipe dream to hear “yay we got an engi”…but alas… its not meant to be..

The gyros would benefit if the speed enhancing traits (ie, Mecha legs) and runes (ie, Traveler’s) effected the gyros too.

Just adding my feedback even though it is pretty much redundant.

The function gyro (especially considering it is supposed to be our new mechanic) is pretty worthless.
- A majority of the times I tried to use it, it seemed confused, the pathing was off, or couldn’t complete a stomp.
- The time it takes to stomp seems to be twice as long as a normal stomp, which wouldn’t be that much of an issue if it lived long enough to do its job or had inherent stability so it wouldn’t turn into a golf ball. I would prefer if my elite mechanic worked instead of turning the field of battle into a driving range.
- Although I do pvp and given some fixes the F gyro would be fine there, I do agree with people who are saying it’s usefulness is pve is sorely lacking. The couple of times I tried to rez with the F gyro have been utter failures. The need to find your ally in the thick of all the particle effects and other players running around makes it incredibly hard to use. If it could function more like the ranger “Search and Rescue” skill it may find some more use as long as it could stay alive, actually find its target, and not take twice as long to do the job.

I feel until these and a few other issues listed in previous posts are addressed, this mechanic that should be defining our new elite specialization is more of an elite wreck than an elite spec.

As far as everything else goes, I feel the hammer is in a good spot. The second leap on rocket charge can be wonky but I haven’t had as many issues with it as others have. The traits seem to be alright as well. Maybe a little tuning, but overall acceptable.

However, the gyros…need help.
- What good is the sneak gyro if I outrun it 90% of the time and lose stealth?
- Why would I take the medic gyro instead of HT if it can’t keep up with me? Unless you really really wanted to heal that ambient creature you just ran by a few seconds ago.
- What good are any of the offensive gyros if they can’t find their target, or worse yet simply die to more than one person dropping AoE on it right after it spawns?

I will say this though. The toolbelt skills related the gyros are fantastic. They may not be master race worthy, but if fixes are made to the gyro AI and survivability they really compliment the hammer.

I understand it is a little too late to “redo” the gyros, but the suggestions earlier about making them signets or equivalent to the Herald facets (hey, they are both elite specs, right?) could solve most of the issues we are having.

I really enjoyed the Scrapper and especially the Hammer. I tried several different builds. The only thing I’m sad about is that I ultimatively ended up with something very similar to the FT-build I’m already running. But I’m happy with it anyway.

That’s speaking about PvE, though. I’m sure Scrapper opens up many options in PvP and WvW.

Some issues I had:

Hammer

H#3 almost killed me several times. I like the feel of this skills but it is quite difficult to utilize if it let’s you jump of the edge that often. H#4 is a bit wonky from time to time. But that’s about it.

Gyros

Not so much for me although the Healing-Toolbelt is quite neat. I also liked the Shredder Gyro. Ultimatively I just prefer other things, though. I also was slightly annoyed by them lagging behind because of my movement speed.

Traits

Minors

I didn’t encounter a situation in PvE where the Function Gyros were any use. Might on rezzing is meh overall. And Impact Savant doesn’t contribute anything. I hope there will be some adjustments here.

Shocking Speed

Works perfectly fine when alone or in very small skirmishes. But at more than 2 allies it becomes useless because you will have a way too hard time to actually combo with your Lightning fields. I therefore won’t use it in its current state.

Maybe consider adding Swiftness on blast regardless of the type of combo field so it’s not completely useless?

Idea for making Gyros as a utility more engaging! (Unique resource mechanic similar to Herald)

Alrighty, I’ve spent a good bit of time on the beta, and I have to agree with the many engineers that claim Gyros, in their current form, are clunky and don’t provide much to the engineer in comparison with kits. Especially when you factor in the AI wandering off, their low HP and getting clobbered easily by a light breeze, and the fact that absolutely NONE of the gyros insult you like Wheatley from Portal 2. (Egregious!)

I have a thought to overhaul them, to make them a unique system that can actually use a fuel bar. This would function similarly to the Revenant’s elite spec, Herald, and the aspect upkeep costs. Please let me know what you think, because I would love to have some new gameplay come out of the Scrapper elite specialization’s new utilities.

SECONDARY RESOURCE: Fuel (30) Located in a bar above the endurance bar, similar to the Druid Celestial Avatar bar. Fuel regenerates at a rate of 1 per second when drones are active, and 3 per second when no drones are active.

Gyro utility line: No longer targetable, each drone has a fuel cost that is drained per second in order to keep the drone afloat at your side. Each drone is merely a cosmetic effect that floats around your character and grants bonus effects to you directly, which fits in perfectly with the melee style of Scrapper combat. All drones have a 30 second cooldown that begins when the drone is launched. You may detonate drones early using the skill button again, and when you run out of fuel any active Gyros detonate. The current toolbelt skills are already pretty awesome, and I think they would fit well with this design.

Medic Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a medic gyro that circles you and heals nearby allies. (Same stats as current)

Blast Gyro – 2 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Blast Gyro that circles you, occasionally launching darts at your target.
A smaller (targetable) kamikaze gyro is then launched that flies toward your target, functioning like a weaker version of the current Blast Gyro. It also plays “charge” on a poorly tuned trumpet.

Bulwark Gyro – 1 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Bulwark Gyro that circles you, granting Watchful Eye to nearby allies. This absorbs 50% of the incoming damage allies receive, but at a cost of 1 additional fuel for every 1000 damage absorbed. (No idea if this is enough, or too much absorption, because I am busy thinking about soup)

Purge Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Purge Gyro that encircles you and cleanses 2 conditions from all nearby allies every 3 seconds. (600 Radius around you)

Shredder Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Shredder Gyro that damages enemies in a radius around you, and constantly activates whirl combo finishers.

Sneak Gyro – 5 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a sneak gyro to provide stealth to nearby allies. Just like the current implementation, the shredder will still be visible to PVP players, revealing the general location of the stealthed characters.

Alrighty, let me know what you think! I’d love to hear feedback; if you believe this system would help the utilities get some love, or if you just really like white chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies.

P.S.Another suggestion by Chaith would be a fantastic to add Function Gyro… functionality. You can find that here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Chaith-s-Idea-for-Robust-Scrapper-Identity/first#content), which is an amazing idea to make the Function Gyro more engaging in all game modes.

I’m not sure how valuable feedback is if it suggests entirely reworking to include new mechanics. At this point I think the best thing we can do is make suggestions to tweak numbers and cooldowns, possible add new effects. Certainly not a new mechanic that has to fit with the rest of the Engineer and needs new visuals and essentially throws the current concept of gyros out the window.

Like it or not (I don’t really) the concept of gyros we have now is the concept of gyros we will have in 3 weeks.

Function Gyro: I love the concept of this, even as someone who primarily plays PvE where it’s not nearly as useful. Very sad that it won’t let you target downed NPCs. I haven’t been able to even try it yet because the only downed players I’ve seen have been in zergs where it’s impossible to target them. A hotkey to target nearest downed ally would go a low way here.

Hammer: Pretty good. I like everything about it except the feel. It’s just so clunky on the auto-attack and #3. Could definitely be amazing with a few tweaks.

Gyros: I feel kinda alone in actually liking some of them, but they definitely need work. Like others have said, locking them to the player (where applicable) would go a long way. More like the water field on the Healing Gyro’s toolbelt skill.

I didn’t read the whole thread, i just want to give some feedback from my pov.

Gyros

Since the reveal i knew the Gyros are at bad idea imho and after the stream i knew i was right:

• AI dependant
• Die way too fast/ way too long cooldown
• Can be hit by aoe AND are targetable
• Replace a spot for a kit or a useful skill that actually CAN bring a stunbreak.
• Functions are a joke. Short example: bulwark gyro vs gear shield (1 of 5 skills in an awesome kit)

In short: Since the gyros replace a whole spot which could be used for a kit (5 more skills!), they have to be good. That in mind, it s hard for this kind of skill to balance good vs OP (look at turrets before nerf or before the buff before that). So they ended up with baaaad gyros.

Now, since you redesigned the revenant drastically by giving him a weapon swap i am pretty positive that you still can and probably do something about your gyros that (in my eyes) were doomed from the start.

My idea: Bring a gyro kit. Rebalance/redesign the existing gyros and put them in…. add 2 more gyros basing on the existing toolbelt skills for the already existing gyros (kitten idea just for example purposes). Since they re in a kit… youll use them on demand and it wont have a big impact on your gameplay if they die too fast (if redesigned/balanced to be in a kit)… even if they die that fast like they do now.

The heal gyro needs some rework, or replace it with another non gyro heal and put the gyro with a different functionality in the toolbelt. The elite has it s use…. no matter what people say. It s not bad. Not great, but not bad. The toolbelt skill on the elite is a great one though.

Hammer

I was never a fan on giving the engi a hammer but here it is, so let s make the best out of it:
The damage is pretty subpar. I call it “balanced” tbh, but since certain classes (you know which ones i m talking about) are on steroids it feels really subpar.
I d say leave it at that and see how it plays out, but i really feel the need for some range: Give hammer #4 600 range projectiles. 600 should be max range.

Traits

Not much i want to talk about here (maybe i forgot). Nothing too great (are the 12s prot on turret 2x intended?), or too bad. But Final salvo would be actually useful to take if there would be a gyro kit.

This are my opinions on testing this elite spec. I play only soloQ (bring it back!) and wvw seriously, pve just to relax and hunt those APs. So that s on my backround that leads to my pov.

P.S.: I wont talk about the obvious bugs (Function Gyro,….).

Adamantium.3682:

I’m not sure how valuable feedback is if it suggests entirely reworking to include new mechanics. At this point I think the best thing we can do is make suggestions to tweak numbers and cooldowns, possible add new effects. Certainly not a new mechanic that has to fit with the rest of the Engineer and needs new visuals and essentially throws the current concept of gyros out the window.

Like it or not (I don’t really) the concept of gyros we have now is the concept of gyros we will have in 3 weeks.

The feedback so far consists to 98% of the following:

- hammer, albeit having a nice concept, needs fine-tuning when it comes to aftercasts, leap-pathing, and dmg on the AA
- traits are mostly fine, even tho the minor ones are a great disappointment / make no sense (25% stun-duration increase when we have access to exactly 2 stuns)
- function gyro is a buggy mess
- A.I. pathing / aggro-mechanic is a buggy mess
- gyros die too fast

the only gyro that people seem to like is the whirling one, and that is for it not moving at all and its awesome toolbelt.

So, after this clear, devastating feedback, is there even a doubt that nothing other than a gyro & class-mechanic rework, with subsequent changes to some traits will be accepted by engi-players?

So far, the scrapper comes with nothing but hammer & some awesome traits that are sadly followed up by their kittened little brother that asks us to double-press F whenever we want to stomp or revive a target. I will – maybe – slot the whirling gyro for its spare capacitor, but don’t see a single reason to slot the other (s)crap.

One thing I don’t understand is the gm minor trait “Impact Savant”. The stun duration decrease is nice but the duration increase to stuns we apply makes almost no sense. Last i checked engineers/scrappers only have access to two reliable stuns and a possible third if elixir x grants you rampage in stead of tornado. So why isn’t there a trait that turns dazes into stuns or maybe this minor should just be reworked, but as it is the outgoing stuns increase is next to worthless. Meanwhile the decrease in stun duration combined with melandru runes and bowls of roasted lotus root makes stuns applied to the scrapper 90% less effective which according to my almost good math turns a 3 second stun into a
0.3 second stun. Was this by design? I don’t remember anyone mentioning that the scrapper would be an unstoppable attacker ;P

My thoughts:

Hammer
To be totally honest, I really enjoy the Hammer and don’t have any major issues with any of the skills right now. I think they all function well and are fun to use. Balance feels appropriate. That being said, just an opinion on one specific thing:

AA – I know there a some players who are concerned with the damage of the AA, but to me it feels rather balanced because of the ease with which the Scrapper maintains Might.

Gyros
Well, to be honest I expected to underwhelmed by these and I certainly was. From what I can tell, they generally suffer from all of the same issues as the Guardian’s Spirit Weapons. They’re too slow, die too easily, spend most of their time trying just to navigate, etc. As far as I can tell these would be relatively balanced skills if the AI was improved.

I do have to say, however, that to the credit of the Devs, Gyros do feel like a little more of a hybrid between Spirit Weapons and standard active utility skills which does make them feel a bit more unique and likely help keep them from being quite as useless.

The Gyro Toolbelt skills feel appropriate and useful.

Overall I don’t HATE Gyros, but I won’t be running them until some of the issues with their speed, targeting and navigation are addressed.

Minor Traits
Function Gyros seems pretty underwhelming to me. It doesn’t really seem to be worth much outside of PvP. I feel like if it provided some additional effect or mechanic suited to each game mode, it would be a different story.

Decisive Renown – Meh. It could be worse, but it’s a bit boring. 5 stacks of Might doesn’t really seem necessary since this Specialization already has pretty significant Might stacking. I can see the benefit of Super Speed here as well, but it really only helps the Scrapper if they’ve taken the proper Master trait.

Impact Savant – I like this trait, to be honest. It’s not exciting, perhaps, but it’s a pretty nice effect.

My major suggestion with the Minor traits would be to completely toss out Decisive Renown and move Impact Savant to its place. I would then like to see Final Salvo become the new Grandmaster Minor, as that would make Gyros exceptionally more useful without being overpowered.

Adept Traits
Shocking Speed – I’m cool with this as is. I think given the strength of the regeneration effect provided by Rapid Regeneration, this trait is in a good place.

Stabilization Core – Most certainly only for PvP. If I liked the Function Gyro, maybe I would like this trait too . . . I think if this trait at least granted another boon it would be more worthwhile, but right now I don’t see a reason to take it in other game modes.

Recovery Matrix – I’m all for gaining more Protection, but this trait is admittedly rather boring. What I’d really like to see is this trait apply 3 seconds of Protection when the Scrapper is granted Stability, making this ability work rather well with Perfectly Weighted. Yes, perhaps it would lack synergy with Stabilization Core, but I’d be more than willing to live with that.

Master Traits
I actually have no complaints about any of the Master Traits. I think they’re all in great places and genuinely enjoy them. If anything, the healing from Super Speed with Rapid Regeneration is a little too powerful. If it needs a nerf, however, I’d caution against the intensity of it, as I could see this trait becoming useless very easily. >.>

Grandmaster Traits
Adaptive Armor – this is the first trait of this sort that I’ve ever really felt like functioned in a meaningful way. I’m currently running this, in fact.

Final Salvo – as I mentioned already, I feel like this should migrate to the Grandmaster Minor slot and push Impact Savant down to the Master Minor spot. In its place I think we need to see a trait to improve the quality of the Gyros. Perhaps something to increase duration and vitality would be appropriate or some other additional effect.

Perfectly Weighted – I think this trait is pretty straightforward and functions well. It provides a nice option for those really looking to focus on the hammer itself.

Overall I’m very happy with the Scrapper. This elite spec seems rather tight at the moment, barring some issues with the Gyros. I’ll definitely be running this when HoT releases.

Helcor.9527:

Yashuoa.9527:

I would like to ask you for two changes to the hammer.

Hammer #4:
The first press on the spell will do what it already does.
On second press, you will cancel the Shock shield block and throw a piece of electrified scrap metal at your target for x dmg. This attack has a 900 max range.
If you have not blocked any attacks when going to the second press on the spell, than the cooldown will be reduced by half.

This is the general idea.
It could be changed a bit.
Maybe something like a cripple or so added to it for example.

I like the hammer 4 idea.

Thanks for mentioning.

If this is the last BWE we get before HoT launches, I really wonder if devs will be able to fix all these issues quickly…below are my impressions:

Hammer

After trying the Hammer out, I feel that standalone they’re all pretty good skills, but when you combine and use them together, their cast time just seem way too long, resulting them feeling very clunky to use.

If you compare Scrapper’s hammer skill cast time to those of Warrior & Guardian’s, you can see that other than Guardian’s last hit on hammer auto, both Warrior and Guardian do not have a single hammer skill that goes beyond 1s cast time, while Scrapper has two, and they’re nearly 2s cast time skills.

Also, it could be because of the lack of impactful sound effect, I just don’t get any awesome sensation of me hitting kitten something. A good example is Tool Kit’s last hit auto attack sound.

A particular skill I want to point out is Rocket Charge, I…kinda both love and hate this skill.

It is a very nice skill when you’re trying to close the gap between you and your target, but if you manage to reach the target with just the 1st or 2nd leap, then it gets very messy, it feels like I’m actually leaping away from my target (also it gets very dizzy…)

Gyros

They really should ALWAYS stay close to you AT ALL TIME. Meaning they should not stop even when they perform any action (such as purging conditions or sending out heal).

I was running forward with swiftness on in Heart of Mist and I summoned the Medic Gyro, god it just couldn’t keep up with me, and because it occasionally stops to heal bystander, our gap in distance further widen, then it just dies miles away from me…

This affects usage of their self-destruct skill too, like in battle you won’t even know where they might be because they aren’t sticking to your side, so how am I supposed to have them daze/throw down a light field at location I want?

The ONLY gyro which I have no problem with any of the issues described above is the Sneak Gyro.

I see a lot of people complaining that you have to stop from time to time so Sneak Gyro can keep up with you to apply Stealth. But personally I like how Sneak Gyro won’t/can’t keep up with me, because I can make the opponent wondering whether I’m standing near the Sneak Gyro to stack up Stealth, or already coming toward him with that 4~6s of stealth to ambush him.

And there’s the Function Gyro from the trait too. After trying it out for a day, I have to say I’m not particularly fond of this Gyro. It should try to stomp the target immediately after it get summoned, instead of hovering there doing nothing for a few second THEN started stomping.

Once I summoned it then immediately start my own stomp, guess what, I actually stomp before it does…

I think it would also be better if we can summon Function Gyro right beside the downed target. Right now you actually summon it beside you and it will fly over to the target, meaning that it could get slowed or destroyed when it was trying to reach the target.

If Function Gyro’s slow stomp and to have it fly over are intentional, then I think the Stabilization Core trait should just combine with Function Gyro, as without Stabilization Core it is just not that useful, either Scrapper players abandon the other two traits they could choose, or drop Stabilization Core and make Function Gyro a near useless trait.

So in conclusion, I think Gyros’ AI behavior should be changed, with the EXCEPTION of Sneak Gyro.

Traits

The only issue/bug I have is Expert Examination, the description says it should apply 6 seconds of Vulnerability as well as 6 seconds of Weakness, but in reality you only get 6s Vulnerability + 3s Weakness.

This is an initial impression, and I don’t want to read 5+ pages of notes.

LOVE it so far! – Some suggestions:
Reconstructive Field is great, but it doesn’t last long enough to do much with. Maybe +2 seconds? But the feeling is good when jumping around on hammer.

Shredder Gyro: I love it, but the cast delay is a problem. Some fields are gone by the time I’m done casting it, and with the water field, I actually have to cast it first, then drop it on my field in order to get any healing from it.

Flame Kit, Mass momentum, and juggernaut combo, Possible Bug/gameplay issue:
It’s fun! But the stacking might works outside of combat, so i feel like i have to sit with it to let it build up might before I enter combat. I feel like it slows down effective gameplay because in order to get the full benefit, I need to wait and let it build before joining in, which slows down engagements. Also, since it is pretty great for stacking might, I basically end up using it as a might buff while in combat. I dont know if thats how its supposed to be, but its what I’m doing.

These aren’t bad, I’m just being nit-picky! LOVE it otherwise!

Traits are amazing and have good synergy with other builds.

I like the skills of the hammer (and animation) but could use a little more “oomph”.

Gyros: Cannon fodder, aka Spirit Weapons 2.0. Needs more health or something to make them more reliable. Would rather just go back to kits.

Change the skill icon for Hammer 3. It doesn’t fit.

Greetings everyone! I’m making this its own topic just because I want to see if this specific idea can get any support and traction with the community. If not, there are still free cookies here! Glormph.

I’ve spent a good bit of time on the beta, and I have to agree with the many engineers that claim Gyros, in their current form, are clunky and don’t provide much to the engineer in comparison with kits. Especially when you factor in the AI wandering off, their low HP and getting clobbered easily by a light breeze, and the fact that absolutely NONE of the gyros insult you like Wheatley from Portal 2. (Egregious!)

I have a thought to overhaul them, to make them a unique system that can actually use a fuel bar. This would function similarly to the Revenant’s elite spec, Herald, and the aspect upkeep costs. Please let me know what you think, because I would love to have some new gameplay come out of the Scrapper elite specialization’s new utilities.

SECONDARY RESOURCE: Fuel (30) Located in a bar above the endurance bar, similar to the Druid Celestial Avatar bar. Fuel regenerates at a rate of 1 per second when drones are active, and 3 per second when no drones are active.

Fuel for any scrapper that does not take any gyros on their bar could be used for giving the function gyro an ability or buff, like the ability to overload your function gyro into an AOE stun (to give more use to the minor trait that increases stun duration) or some other ability like Chaith’s suggestion that I linked to below; it would give the function gyro some use besides stomping/rezzing in general play.

Gyro utility line: No longer targetable, each drone has a fuel cost that is drained per second in order to keep the drone afloat at your side. Each drone is merely a cosmetic effect that floats around your character and grants bonus effects to you directly, which fits in perfectly with the melee style of Scrapper combat. All drones have a 30 second cooldown that begins when the drone is launched. You may detonate drones early using the skill button again, and when you run out of fuel any active Gyros detonate. The current toolbelt skills are already pretty awesome, and I think they would fit well with this design.

Medic Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a medic gyro that circles you and heals nearby allies. (Same stats as current)

Blast Gyro – 2 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Blast Gyro that circles you, occasionally launching darts at your target.
A smaller (targetable) kamikaze gyro is then launched that flies toward your target, functioning like a weaker version of the current Blast Gyro. It also plays “charge” on a poorly tuned trumpet.

Bulwark Gyro – 1 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Bulwark Gyro that circles you, granting Watchful Eye to nearby allies. This absorbs 50% of the incoming damage allies receive, but at a cost of 1 additional fuel for every 1000 damage absorbed. (No idea if this is enough, or too much absorption, because I am busy thinking about soup)

Purge Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Purge Gyro that encircles you and cleanses 2 conditions from all nearby allies every 3 seconds. (600 Radius around you)

Shredder Gyro – 3 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a Shredder Gyro that damages enemies in a radius around you, and constantly activates whirl combo finishers.

Sneak Gyro – 5 Fuel/sec- 30s Cooldown – Launch a sneak gyro to provide stealth to nearby allies. Just like the current implementation, the shredder will still be visible to PVP players, revealing the general location of the stealthed characters.

Alrighty, let me know what you think! I’d love to hear feedback; if you believe this system would help the utilities get some love, or if you just really like white chocolate chip macadamia nut cookies.

P.S. Another suggestion by Chaith would be a fantastic to add Function Gyro… functionality. You can find that here (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Chaith-s-Idea-for-Robust-Scrapper-Identity/first#content), which is an amazing idea to make the Function Gyro more engaging in all game modes.

Due to the reports of hammer AA feeling clunky and slow, I wanted to see if there were merits to this feedback or if us Engis were just not used to using a big 2H weapon. I timed a few different auto attack chains. I started the timer as soon as I pressed “1” the first time, and let the auto attack run from there. I stopped the timer as soon as the final attack activation bar filled.

10 Hammer AA chains (1/2s, 1/2s, 1/2s) = 30.8s
10 TK AA chains (1/2s, 1/2s, 1s) = 32.06s
30 Hip Shots (3/4s) = 25.29s
30 Bombs (1/2s) = 26.33

Warrior Hammer AA chain (1/2s, 1/2s, 1/2s) = 27.13s

Some interesting notes:
If you’re not familiar with the Warrior hammer AA chain it has a horrible aftercast delay, but this only occurs after all 3 attacks. So it feels more like hit, hit, hit, delay, hit, hit, hit, delay when compared to Engi hammer which is hit, delay, hit, delay, hit, delay. While I would prefer no bad feeling delays, if it is necessary for attack speed balance purposes please copy the Warrior and put it at the end of the chain. Even still the Warrior’s entire chain is quite a bit faster than the Engi chain even though they are both 1/2s on all skills.

Over the course of 10 chains the Tool Kit is only slower by barely a second. This is the most evidence to me that something is wrong. Tool Kit has a notoriously slow final attack, but one chain is only about 0.12 seconds longer than the hammer.

I really like the idea of gyros. Engineer has been my favourite class ever since the beta of the original game and I was super-excited when the Scrapper was finally revealed. However, right now the gyros don’t feel as meaningful as I expected them to be. Most of them have short durations, making them feel less like entities with battlefield presence and more like fleeting effects. The blast gyro is more of a missile than a drone and the shredder mostly seems to remain stationary most of the time, so it could just as well have been a turret.

Generally, I expect gyros to function a bit like flying turrets, but with shorter durations and perhaps slightly stronger passive effects to compensate for the lack of duration. The offensive gyros should be attacking the player’s target, just like turrets do, while the defensive ones should just circle the player (instead of trying to follow him, cause this requires pathfinding, which is more difficult to get right, while it is very important for them to stay close).

Instead of just having the option to detonate them, I feel they should have an active effect as well, again similar to turrets. The detonate option could then replace the toolbelt skill. A nice twist would be to have an actual fuel system here, with a number of charges that decreases over time. Using the active effect skill would consume a charge. The passive effect and the power of the detonation would decrease as the charges run out. Once a drone runs out of charges it would just crash, without doing any damage.

This would give players some meaningful choices in how to use gyros: Keep them up as long as possible for the passive effect, use the active effects or detonate them as fast as possible.

I realise this suggestion goes beyond a few simple balance adjustments. But to me, the gyros right now are not effective or fun enough to keep them around.

One more thing: the new traits introduce even more ways to reduce incoming damage or get heals. I like them, but such traits don’t synergize well with AED. Engis have quite a few options to buff their healing / improve toughness and armour already, so the list of traits that should be avoided when using AED has grown. And its not like AED sees much use as it is already. A simple adjustment to AED like “falling below X% of health” instead of “lethal damage” to trigger the extra heal would solve this.

Hammer is great but #3 needs some tweaking. The auto attacks need to be a tad quicker and possibly have confusion added to the last swing or on #5. OR a damage boost, but just small making it near bomb (as none of the skills hit as hard as say jump shot)

Gyros, well. The healing gyro needs 5-10 seconds off its CD as for now its toolbelt is the only reason to take it. Otherwise the turret is still our best option even with the decent toolbelt skill, cleanse gyro is not going to take a spot, so maybe roll it in to heal gyro and keep the cooldown? Spinning gyro is ok, but its CD is again way too high for so little, the toolbelt is nice, but needs to daze and all the pulses not just the first.

Now for for bulwark gyro, its toolbelt needs to be a stunbreak, this really needs to happen. You basically cannot move away from kits or elixers because we have only a few stunbreaks, the gyros do not offer that sort of utility. With a stunbreak it could become a much stronger option.

Sneak gyro would be great if it stacked stealth quicker/kept up

My only other concern is that all of our swiftness options are in more defensive specs, apart from tools maybe, but not much there works with scrapper if you want to still have access to increased move speed, so open PVE builds become a little held back as you would have to spec to get speed over say HGH

Bish.8627:

Hammer is great but #3 needs some tweaking. The auto attacks need to be a tad quicker and possibly have confusion added to the last swing or on #5. OR a damage boost, but just small making it near bomb (as none of the skills hit as hard as say jump shot)

Gyros, well. The healing gyro needs 5-10 seconds off its CD as for now its toolbelt is the only reason to take it. Otherwise the turret is still our best option even with the decent toolbelt skill, cleanse gyro is not going to take a spot, so maybe roll it in to heal gyro and keep the cooldown? Spinning gyro is ok, but its CD is again way too high for so little, the toolbelt is nice, but needs to daze and all the pulses not just the first.

Now for for bulwark gyro, its toolbelt needs to be a stunbreak, this really needs to happen. You basically cannot move away from kits or elixers because we have only a few stunbreaks, the gyros do not offer that sort of utility. With a stunbreak it could become a much stronger option.

Sneak gyro would be great if it stacked stealth quicker/kept up

My only other concern is that all of our swiftness options are in more defensive specs, apart from tools maybe, but not much there works with scrapper if you want to still have access to increased move speed, so open PVE builds become a little held back as you would have to spec to get speed over say HGH

Not entirely true. But close.

Hammer 3 – 5 all hit for more or near about the same amount of damage as Jump Shot.

The problem is that they are all multi-hit and are hard to land in their entirety against players. Either way, they are not as burst-y as Jump Shot .

I enjoyed the hammer for the most part.

Personally I would really like to see the #4 skill function quicker, but mostly I wish it was a 360 degree block. Maybe that comes from my love for the engie shield skills, but it would be a most helpful counter to those thieves and mesmers attacking out of stealth from behind.

Was there a stealth fix yesterday? Because yesterday the function gyro failed completely at stomping (not sure about rezzing), but now it doesn’t go haywire anymore. I’ve used it many times, in many different positions, and it always stomped. Also, gyros aren’t as useless as you guys are making them out to be, but giving the gyros more health is always welcomed

dancingmonkey.4902:

I enjoyed the hammer for the most part.

Personally I would really like to see the #4 skill function quicker, but mostly I wish it was a 360 degree block. Maybe that comes from my love for the engie shield skills, but it would be a most helpful counter to those thieves and mesmers attacking out of stealth from behind.

It is. It’s a normal block like every other block skill. It’s just that the timing is weird.

At least that’s how it has worked for me all day.

Hammer is awesome but seems slow. And dmg seems a bit low.

Hammer Skill 3 sent me off a cliff.

I do not like gyros. To slow and other than tool belt skills seem worthless. Would rather have them be mobile turrets and have the tool belt skills than how they are now.

Remember in the preview they stayed with the engi. They don’t do that in game.

purge gyro no good compared to alternatives wish it did more!

Adamantium.3682:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I enjoyed the hammer for the most part.

Personally I would really like to see the #4 skill function quicker, but mostly I wish it was a 360 degree block. Maybe that comes from my love for the engie shield skills, but it would be a most helpful counter to those thieves and mesmers attacking out of stealth from behind.

It is. It’s a normal block like every other block skill. It’s just that the timing is weird.

At least that’s how it has worked for me all day.

Maybe it is just the timing issue then. I guess it is just the damage that is the only aspect that function the way you are facing only.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Adamantium.3682:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I enjoyed the hammer for the most part.

Personally I would really like to see the #4 skill function quicker, but mostly I wish it was a 360 degree block. Maybe that comes from my love for the engie shield skills, but it would be a most helpful counter to those thieves and mesmers attacking out of stealth from behind.

It is. It’s a normal block like every other block skill. It’s just that the timing is weird.

At least that’s how it has worked for me all day.

Maybe it is just the timing issue then. I guess it is just the damage that is the only aspect that function the way you are facing only.

I agree with both of those things. The timing is really weird on it and the damage definitely is directional and on a very short range. I would like to see it raised a little, to 240. It’s very difficult to land sometimes.

Possible bug: the damage taken by the Bulwark Gyro is calculated before damage reductions due to toughness, and uses its own armor when calculating.

Whether you are wearing Knight’s or Berserker’s, the Gyro will take the same amount of damage from a given attack. This makes the Bulwark Gyro comparatively worse in higher armor builds, since the Gyro still absorbs a smaller amount of damage in high armor builds compared to low armor builds.

Even if this is intended behavior, it’s certainly unintuitive since the skill doesn’t do what the skill says; the gyro does not take half of the damage, it takes more than half.

First of all. I’m really enjoying Scrapper.
Just fun to play with a really interesting design.

However, It just doesn’t function the way its supposed to in my opinion.

Hammer skills:
-Auto attack chain: Its slow & weak compared to most other auto attack chains in the game. I feel like a hammer is supposed to be slow & strong so I thinkthis auto attack chain could use a nice damage increase. (like at least 20%. Could be fixed by buffing the hammer trait.)

-Rocket Charge: A lot of fun to use but this skill seems kind of buggy. Sometimes just misses half of the hits even though the target isn’t doing anything. Damage wise I feel like it could use a slight buff.

-Shock Shiels: Nice but kind of sucks coz it only blocks in the front. Damage & vuln should be only in the front though.

Gyros:

Even though I LOVE the concept of the Gyro’s, they just don’t seem to be implemented well.

Haven’t used or tested them much at all just because they’re more or less useless right now. They die way too fast, don’t follow you as closely as they are supposed to. Messed up AI.

It’s a shame because if they would work as intended in the description & live stream they would be quite useful. Toolbelt skills look fine too.

I also feel like the duration should be longer. The fuel system could kind of be reworked.
Give Scrapper a fuel bar like druid has their celestial avatar bar or revenants energy. Make them gain fuel when no gyros are out but lose fuel slowly when a gyro is out and they lose fuel faster if they have more gyros out.

Medic Gyro: Seems decent, nice toolbelt skill, short duration though. AI is messed up as it just flies around sometimes way too far away from me.

Blast Gyro Tag: Too slow to be a reliable CC

Bulwark Gyro: I like the concept & the toolbalt skill is nice. But it has the same problems most other Gyros have; messed up AI, too short duration, too squishy.

Purge Gyro: Same problem as with other Gyros. Would be nice if it could strip boons from enemies within its radius as well.

Shredder Gyro: Seems to be quite good but its still squishy.

Sneak Gyro: Way too slow to be reliable stealth.

Function Gyro: Nice design but it shares the same problems as the other Gyros once again. Way too squishy, messed up AI. By the time it starts doing what its supposed to do i stomped 10 enemies.

I feel like the Gyros would be a lot better if they actually sticked to your char like glue. had AT LEAST 50% more health and had normal AI pathing like minions, clones or pets. (even though i’ve noticed the new pets acting strange sometimes as well.)

Traits:

Shocking Speed: This should be the first minor trait. Swap places with Decisive Renown

Decisive Renown: Just feels boring & underwhelming to me. I feel like Scrapper already has enough res/stomping tools with the Function Gyro & Stabilization Core (if only it would work properly)
Change this to: Evading an attack granst you Stability & Superspeed. (3sec)
(take stability from Perfectly Weighted.)

Impact Savant: Just stun is way too little. Make it Stun & Daze and this trait would be great. Especially since Scrapper seems to be a spec that seems to focus a lot on dazes, having a trait that only works with stuns is kind of out of place.

Perfectly Weighted: Give the stability on dodge to Decisive Renown. Change this to 20% Damage & 20% attack speed. (Or just make the base Hammer stronger)

Final Salvo: Seems solid. I however have a suggestion for this trait if the “Fuel” system i mentioned earlier could be implemented as a Scrapper mechanic.

Additional to the superspeed & lightning field the trait reduces the cooldown of the Gyro depending on how much Fuel was left when destroyed.
30% reduced cooldown when +75% fuel is left.
20% reduced cooldown when +50% fuel is left.
10% reduced cooldown when +25% fuel is left.

TL DR:
Scrapper is fun to play.
Hammer auto attack & #3 need a damage buff. Hammer #3 needs to have its accuracy fixed.
Gyro’s are kind of useless & need more health, need their AI & pathing fixed and they need to stick closer to the Scrapper. They also need a duration increase & health increase.

Hammer #3 needs to be changed to better stick to enemies (1st and sometimes 2nd leaps can throw you away from your target instead of towards them). The zigzag thing when used untargeted also makes it feel slow compared to other leaps/rushes, and it could use either speeding up or have the zigzag part removed or straightened up a good bit.

Function gyro’s AI needs a lot of fixing. It needs to not loiter around randomly, and the stomp needs to be sped up to be the same speed as a normal player stomp. This thing almost never finishes stomping in high tier teamfights even with proper corpse cleave. Could also use an hp or armor increase.

I’m still not sure I agree with having stability for function gyro as a major trait. It’s pretty much necessary to make the function gyro useful in PvP. The grandmaster tier also has a trait which seems to be a mandatory pick (for PvP). Some balancing probably needs to be done here.

Also, the block on hammer #4 didn’t seem to activate immediately. This made it more of a pain to use than either of our other blocks. Might have just been my latency though.

Adding to say:

Function gyro is rarely usable in PvE, because when someone’s down they usually have enemies bashing on top of them; so many times so far I’ve been unable to manually target another player because the enemies are in the way.
I think the best solution is an auto-deploy in PvE at least, perhaps by clicking on the “Function Gyro Charged” icon (if the interface supports this)

Rocket Charge also seems to throw me off the edge of very high ledges in Verdant Brink to my death, which seems unfair considering how little space on solid ground there is to work with. A simple check that the leap will land on ground would be good.

I had some fun with the Scrapper so far, but the Gyros can be pretty troublesome. The Hammer is an active melee skillset, while the gyros have to chase you around to keep up, so they’re better for an stationary artillery build. They’re more mobile than turrets, but not mobile enough.

I would recommend hard locking them to the player’s anchor point, not “AI locking them,” in that they sort of want to be near the player, and vaguely wander over to him as best they can, I mean that they will ALWAYS float at a specific position relative to the player.

Maybe Bulwark at 10 o’clock, Sneak Gyro at 2 o’clock, Purge at 8 o’clock, Medic at 5 o’clock, and every move you make, they move exactly relative to your position, as locked into you as that floating plant backpiece.

- rocket charge is a bit clunky to use honestly…
- shredder gyro didnt cause any whirl finisher bolts for me regardless of how i tried
- blast gyro – i really dont see its use anywhere…its slow, low damage and the knock back in this form is hadrly useful