Guild Wars 2

Hammer needs some burning.

Played only scrapper the entire beta WE in all game modes and overall immensely enjoyed it. I agree with a lot of the bugs and niggles already posted so i will try not to repeat those too much.

Hammer:
I echo the stuff about hammer #3 being erratic and the slowness of the #2 and #4

Superspeed:
This seriously needs to stack, i don’t want to pop my slick shoes ss stun break and then swap to tool kit to have my 5seconds ss be overwritten by the 2seconds ss from tool kit with streamlined kits trait.

Gyros:
far too weak to bother using. Die too quickly and cant stay on you. remove all AI from it and have them orbit the character in a 180 radius. I already stated that they should not be affected by ground pulsing skills (as most of them never touch the ground) and should be immune to bleed and poison (since they are machines). That’s before you start thinking about buffing health/toughness etc. Stuff like that, that makes no sense really bugs me.

Stability:
Scrapper is melee. It NEEDS PROPER STAB. Reactive stability that is tied to a stun break. Even necros have this. Stabilization core is so situational and underwhelming i don’t know why anyone would take this trait. Perfectly weighted is decent, though again is quite situational and when compared to adaptive armor in the majority of cases is vastly inferior. Juggernaut ties you to firearms and FT. Toss elixir B is ok, but again is proactive not reactive, requires you to aim it on yourself and is susceptible to reflects and interrupts.
Rework stabilization core as a proper non situational stab trait or give one of the gyros stab/stun break.

Those are my main issues but aside from that i really like scrapper. Thunderclap is my new favourite skill XD

guildabd.6529:

Hammer needs some burning.

fits lightning theme perfectly +1000000 anet pls

Just adding my two cents here:

—Speeding up the hammer auto-attack chain would make the weapon much more enjoyable to use. I don’t care if you reduce the damage and reduce the might/vuln duration just speed it up please. In its current state it’s slow enough to be nearly useless and a useless weapon skill on a class that can’t weapon swap is very frustrating.

—All of the hammer skills felt clunky to use. There was an especially noticeable delay on skills #2 and #4 which made them nearly impossible to time right.

—Function gyro hardly feels like a new mechanic to play with in its current state. Having the gyro hover around the scrapper while it’s off cool-down would be a good place to start. Taking it a step further, having multiple (3) traits that augment the function gyro while it’s out could make it even more interesting. Maybe one trait is more support-oriented (the FG can automatically seek out targets?), one is defensive(pulsing stability?), and one is offensive(pulsing might or fury?).

—Speaking of gyros, all of the ones that are supposed to follow you around were incredibly unreliable. The tool belt skills for all of the gyros were pretty great however.

—As far as traits go, most of them felt fine. The superspeed-related traits were the only ones that felt underwhelming.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

I’ll review gyro durations/recharge start times as well.

PLEASE make gyros awesome… because then there will be NO EXCUSE for the shoddy condition Spirit Weapons have been left in for 2 years…

RunicAura.9860:

I have to ask what is the posstbility of scrapper getting a new mechanic ?

In the next 17 days?

Zero.

Nike.2631:

RunicAura.9860:

I have to ask what is the posstbility of scrapper getting a new mechanic ?

In the next 17 days?

Zero.

Sadly that is most likly correct which stinks cause will most likly mean have to wait for next elite spec release and hope for better

the elite gyro that stealths makes you visible when it gets killed and explodes, because the explosion does damage. that is realy annoying and counterproductive for pvp.

is it possible that the elite gyro doesnt do damage when it gets killed ?

Dyrus.6507:

the elite gyro that stealths makes you visible when it gets killed and explodes, because the explosion does damage. that is realy annoying and counterproductive for pvp.

is it possible that the elite gyro doesnt do damage when it gets killed ?

or alternatively, have gyros deal the hit like a mesmer clone would instead of the hit’s “source” being the engi. because its an ok assumption that gyros play nice with other gyros, but when you take sneak you dont want med or bulwark gyros revealing you either and its a disincentive to take more than sneak gyro. conversely, traits make you want to take more gyros by adding super speed and fields.

insanemaniac.2456:

guildabd.6529:

Hammer needs some burning.

fits lightning theme perfectly +1000000 anet pls

def. zeus was the god of lightning and defeated the titans by tossing bolts at them and burning the land.

lets make it happen

Very quick review of the Scrapper because I won’t be using it at all.

Hammer is great, it’s got some serious potential.

Gyros are bad. They shouldn’t need an enemy to activate and I prefer my old turrets, so I lost something good and got this instead? No ty. Elite turret is good for PVE.

The spec won’t replace condi for me, that’s my review.

Haralin.1473:

as always for engis we must live with it. Look at the buglist no other class has so many bugs and for a so long time. After HoT release even more bugs will come only for scrapper cause of no chance to test it, only 1 BWE is so a stupid decision i cannot understand it.

Rangers have a lot of nasty bugs. I main engineer, but most of the problems I’ve had with bugs have been on my ranger.

Azure.8670:

insanemaniac.2456:

guildabd.6529:

Hammer needs some burning.

fits lightning theme perfectly +1000000 anet pls

def. zeus was the god of lightning and defeated the titans by tossing bolts at them and burning the land.

lets make it happen

Sorry, but our patron god is Thor. Lightning and a hammer.

what bugs me most I think about this. is that even after the beta we get a “thanks for the feedback, we’ll keep the suggestions in mind” while rangers got a post of “well here’s the thing, and why, and her’es what we wanna do to fix it”

Scrapper was an afterthrought, and idea started and forgotten because “ooh druids” and when rollout came it was “uh oh, forgot about this. well that’ll do”

we don’t scrap, we don’t lockdown, abilities are buggy and far weaker than any of our kits so taking a gyro trades essentially 1/4 of your strength and versatility for an A.I controlled floaty thing that goes walkabout and does a single job that a kit already does far better.

Perfect example, Blast gyro. It misses, it’s lazy and easy to dodge. the trait Aim assisted rocket does more damage, and I dont think I’ve ever seen it miss. Why give up a utility slot for a weaker thing than a trait gives me?

I just…I had hopes, and in the end it just feels like engi was forgotten about, or rather given the last scraps on the table.

Yes I know this is a rant, and yes it’s gonna get blasted but I dont care at this point. I gave my feedback a few pages back and this is just simply frustration born out of the knowledge that scrapper won’t be ready at release, will need months of fixes to even bring it up to par, and will continue to not live up to the name on the tin. I dunno, just horribly disappointed.

insanemaniac.2456:

Dyrus.6507:

the elite gyro that stealths makes you visible when it gets killed and explodes, because the explosion does damage. that is realy annoying and counterproductive for pvp.

is it possible that the elite gyro doesnt do damage when it gets killed ?

or alternatively, have gyros deal the hit like a mesmer clone would instead of the hit’s “source” being the engi. because its an ok assumption that gyros play nice with other gyros, but when you take sneak you dont want med or bulwark gyros revealing you either and its a disincentive to take more than sneak gyro. conversely, traits make you want to take more gyros by adding super speed and fields.

i like your idea. thats a realy good solution to the problem.

RollFzzlbeef.4092:

what bugs me most I think about this. is that even after the beta we get a “thanks for the feedback, we’ll keep the suggestions in mind” while rangers got a post of “well here’s the thing, and why, and her’es what we wanna do to fix it”

Scrapper was an afterthrought, and idea started and forgotten because “ooh druids” and when rollout came it was “uh oh, forgot about this. well that’ll do”

we don’t scrap, we don’t lockdown, abilities are buggy and far weaker than any of our kits so taking a gyro trades essentially 1/4 of your strength and versatility for an A.I controlled floaty thing that goes walkabout and does a single job that a kit already does far better.

Perfect example, Blast gyro. It misses, it’s lazy and easy to dodge. the trait Aim assisted rocket does more damage, and I dont think I’ve ever seen it miss. Why give up a utility slot for a weaker thing than a trait gives me?

I just…I had hopes, and in the end it just feels like engi was forgotten about, or rather given the last scraps on the table.

Yes I know this is a rant, and yes it’s gonna get blasted but I dont care at this point. I gave my feedback a few pages back and this is just simply frustration born out of the knowledge that scrapper won’t be ready at release, will need months of fixes to even bring it up to par, and will continue to not live up to the name on the tin. I dunno, just horribly disappointed.

I would like to tell you that the dev is reading and considering the options ahead … but i can not after waiting for a responce and getting none i too feel the engineer is going to get the big blah whatever treatment i mean the track record is speaking loudly. I hope to be proven wrong

RollFzzlbeef.4092:

what bugs me most I think about this. is that even after the beta we get a “thanks for the feedback, we’ll keep the suggestions in mind” while rangers got a post of “well here’s the thing, and why, and her’es what we wanna do to fix it”

Scrapper was an afterthrought, and idea started and forgotten because “ooh druids” and when rollout came it was “uh oh, forgot about this. well that’ll do”

we don’t scrap, we don’t lockdown, abilities are buggy and far weaker than any of our kits so taking a gyro trades essentially 1/4 of your strength and versatility for an A.I controlled floaty thing that goes walkabout and does a single job that a kit already does far better.

Perfect example, Blast gyro. It misses, it’s lazy and easy to dodge. the trait Aim assisted rocket does more damage, and I dont think I’ve ever seen it miss. Why give up a utility slot for a weaker thing than a trait gives me?

I just…I had hopes, and in the end it just feels like engi was forgotten about, or rather given the last scraps on the table.

Yes I know this is a rant, and yes it’s gonna get blasted but I dont care at this point. I gave my feedback a few pages back and this is just simply frustration born out of the knowledge that scrapper won’t be ready at release, will need months of fixes to even bring it up to par, and will continue to not live up to the name on the tin. I dunno, just horribly disappointed.

The mechanic sucks, the utilities are poor, the hammer is decent…but some of the traits are amazing.

Hi

Because Sneak Gyro and the other Gyro’s are not in stealth when they are inside the gyro sneak field?

And please, make destruct gyros on blast finisher!!!! (like turrets)

I have played 16 hours on my scrapper and had a fun time in the process. My time was pretty much split between sPvP and WvW.

Here is my feedback/suggestions on the scrapper.

Hammer – Love the hammer. Skill 3 could use some tweaks because the leap seems to not track the target when I am close which in turn causes me me to bounce around randomly. I understand how the animation of the skill works. However, I would just like it to be more consistent work better when I am close to the target. Other than that I think the hammer is nice.

Function Gyro -I really like the function gyro. However, there are times it just not seem to work as intended. Sometimes the Gyro takes a really long time to appear. Sometimes it goes to a down person and just sits there instead of stomping/resurrecting. It also seems to die way to fast. Perhaps a tweak in how fast the gyro works or an adjustment in its health or a combo or both could make the gyro a little more useful.

Other Gyros – My impression of them was that they ran out of fuel to quickly and were super easy to kill. To be honest I am not sure where they would be useful. I do like most of the toolbelt skills for the gyros. The only one that I did not like much was the defense field but I feel this could be easily made more useful by giving it a stun break which I feel the gyros lack anyway.

Traits – I really think there should be a trait in there that also helps the gyros stay alive longer or perhaps decrease skill recharge or increase the amount of fuel they have. I think that final salvo would be a perfect trait to add this too.

Any chance that scrapper can replace downed skill #3 with the function gyro, targetting ourselves?

I would like to suggest making Shredder Gyro apply bleeds on each hit, making it a more appealing option for condition builds and a bit more usefull on its own without a field to put it on.

I loved the play style of the scrapper and I noticed the heavy damage increase on gyro self destruct 5k crits out of it and a daze surprised quiet a few players. Though some skills were wonky mainly after casts and some delays with casts that need to be fixed up a bit. The damage I think was fine I could do without the auto attack buff as long as our main skills don’t lose any damage.

Hammer 3 should do all 3 attack on your target if they are in range rather than jumping all over to maximize the burst this one has been brought up a lot.
Purge gyro the initial condi cleanse should be buffed too 3 conditions on activation/toolbelt could use some boon stripping too people inside the field too make it really worth the use.

Bulwark was amazing in small scale for about 2 hits..I may be the only one here, but I feel a short taunt when you activate this gyro would make it absolutely amazing.

Medic gyro was nice for an instant cast, but clearly outdone by turret again any chance we can get a way too make it pulse its heal depending on damage it also receives? or make it too where when you detonate it using the fuel it does another burst aoe heal?also needs a range increase.

Blast gyro felt odd too use damage is nice but could use a bit added too it or cd reduction/toolbelt I feel this or the gyro itself should leave a fire field

Shredder gyro I just couldn’t make any good use out of this thing feels like it should have a pull on the initial cast or pulsing pull every 3 sec too really land those projectiles

Stealth gyro I loved it worked very well.

Some of the traits were very good though the hammer trait was extremely lacking compared to the other grandmasters the damage increase isn’t really that big of a difference and makes it hard to take it with any other weapon set. I feel it should be changed keep the stab, but mabye make it give mobility skills a bonus hammer3,rifle5,rocketboots, another idea would too play into the daze portion for damage like making daze,stuns,knockbacks deal smaller aoe damage.

Still scrapper was pretty dang fun huge playstyle difference.

I really liked the way the Scrapper plays, but I do have a few concerns about hammer skills.

- Electro-whirl’s animation blends poorly with the running animation, resulting in a glitchy double-half-spin rather than a full spin.
- Shock Shield’s visible shield only lasts about half as long as the skill, I can see this causing frustration for other players in PVP when it looks like the shield is down but actually isn’t.
- I was also concerned about Rocket Charge – it was mentioned in the reveal that this skill is an evade, but the listed evade only lasts 1 second which seems to cover just the first leap. This combined with the unpredictable nature of the leaps in close quarters makes it extremely difficult to use around enemies with AOE and knockback attacks. It also dislike how long it takes to be able to move again after the final leap.
- In general, I feel like a lot of the new skills take too long to cast, especially the auto-attack chain.

Is it intended that the function gyro is unusable on NPCs and dead players?

Soupinator.6970:

I really liked the way the Scrapper plays, but I do have a few concerns about hammer skills.

- Electro-whirl’s animation blends poorly with the running animation, resulting in a glitchy double-half-spin rather than a full spin.
- Shock Shield’s visible shield only lasts about half as long as the skill, I can see this causing frustration for other players in PVP when it looks like the shield is down but actually isn’t.
- I was also concerned about Rocket Charge – it was mentioned in the reveal that this skill is an evade, but the listed evade only lasts 1 second which seems to cover just the first leap. This combined with the unpredictable nature of the leaps in close quarters makes it extremely difficult to use around enemies with AOE and knockback attacks. It also dislike how long it takes to be able to move again after the final leap.
- In general, I feel like a lot of the new skills take too long to cast, especially the auto-attack chain.

Is it intended that the function gyro is unusable on NPCs and dead players?

Shock shield could also use a slight range increase the burst on that thing was pretty insane as well was getting 5-10ks in pvp and around 15k in pve

Dear Irenio,
I’ve been in the thinking box since BWE3 for a way to improve the feel of the engineer function gyro. I’ve seen a lot of good suggestions throughout this thread so i hope you will take notice of what people have to say even if it is implemented on a long term i can live with a quick workaround setting up gyro movespeed for now. Anyway, here’s the suggestions i’d like to share:

-Using finisher/revive outside range will trigger the function gyro, in range you will do the action as well as the gyro thus preventing the awkward double f clicks.

-As the function gyro is the new feature for scrapper i feel it should be more persistent instead of only a finish/revive. I think the gyro could be circling the scrapper while not f activated (not a pet, more like the pvp buffs hanging in the air, though some animations long term would be very much appreciated) and shoot your target every 2-4 seconds. Had a moving rifle turret in mind as inspiration. Though the attack should be triggered by your own attacks (aim-assisted rocket without the AOE).
-GM traits should each add a AOE funciton for the function gyro (inspired by thief dodge roll variety) while circling:
-Adaptive Armor, gyro removes 1 condtion in 360 range for 5 targets every 10 seconds while in combat.
-Final Salvo, gives superspeed to 5 targets (2secs or so) every 10 seconds while in combat.
-Perfectly Weighted, stability to 5 targets (also short duration) every 10 seconds while in combat.

-Shocking Speed should also lower the cooldown on gyros by 20% thus making people actually consider using this trait.

WeedyZeGreedy.8635:

-Using finisher/revive outside range will trigger the function gyro, in range you will do the action as well as the gyro thus preventing the awkward double f clicks.

this is a good idea and needs to happen!

an idea to make the sneak gyro more reliable is to not have it use a detonate active like the others and instead a move to position marker

Hammer:
Solid weapon! I feel it’s well designed and a lot of fun to use. Right now I think it is one of the main draws for the scrapper specialization. Skill 2 is amazing and it feels great to be able to use a melee weapon as an engineer, especially with traits that enable the playstyle

• Auto attacks and skill 3 felt clunky at times. Both seemed to have an aftercast or delay that didn’t feel good
• Skill 3 is rather bad for mobility as running with swiftness is about equivalent in distance traveled. I feel the zig-zagging movement when it’s used without a target in range could be slightly tightened and that delays between leaps should be smoothed out.
• Skill 4 seemed to have a small initial wind up time. As a block it should be available immediately on activation
• Skill 5 could do with a couple seconds shaved off its cooldown or a slightly longer stun

Traits:
As an elite spec mechanic, function gyros as they are now do not cut it. Druids get an alternate form with 5 new skills and great animations and a cohesive theme compared to a pvp downstate tool on a 30 second cooldown. I pvp a fair bit and I certainly appreciate function gyros, but the scrapper has the potential to be so much more fleshed out as a concept.

We get a lot of nice traits in the scrapper line, however!

• A 15-20 second cooldown on the function gyro would feel much better. Chaith’s suggestion regarding the function gyro would also be a nice touch
• Rapid regeneration, adaptive armor, and perfectly weighted are all fantastic
• Stabilization core is a nice boost to the function gyro
• I don’t see myself using Final Salvo often

Gyros:
Here’s where things go downhill. I can’t say I’m really happy that engi got even more AI skills, but on the upside it’s unlikely that we’ll get any more in the future. Gyros need to follow much, much more closely, especially the stealth gyro which can currently be outrun at standard run speed. They should be able to use their abilities on the move as players can. Gyros should also be sturdier. It is completely trivial to dps them down in their current state and once they die they all have long cooldowns.

• The healing and bulwark gyros have really great toolbelt skills that are a lot of fun to use
• The instant-cast heal on the healing gyro is a nice touch, but the gyro feels weak on the whole
• The bulwark gyro has strong potential synergy with heals from allies and our own skills, but it is very lackluster now. I can see the danger in making this too strong, especially in drawn out encounters so maybe it should be balanced around a lower fuel timer and invulnerability or much higher hp + defense. It could be a party-wide oh-$%*# button with concentrated damage reduction and a fuel timer of 5-8 seconds. Otherwise it dies when you really need it to do its job. CC would still be a counterplay option
• The stealth gyro needs a lot of polish to work properly, but I like the concept and the reveal is great
• The purge and shredder gyros seem underwhelming

Possible bugs:

• The leaps on hammer 3 seem to only trigger combo fields as you leap into them and not as you’re leaping out of them
• The stability granted by stabilization core seemed to last 4-5 seconds as opposed to the ~8-9 seconds stated by the tooltip
• The function gyro sometimes just wandered around or started stomping long after it was summoned
• The stealth gyro aggros onto players when it should be passive

My overall impression is that the scrapper is a lot of fun. The hammer’s skillset seems well thought out and versatile and some of our new traits are a great complement. Our mechanic could use some work and gyros need to be brought up across the board in strength and usability. The hammer could maybe use a little damage boost after it’s polished some more, but it seems pretty close to the mark. My thanks to anyone who manages to read all of this

My Feedback:

I don’t like the Hammer.

I don’t like using AI.

/disappointed

My feedback:

Gyros took everything that is shoddy and awful about turrets and basically repeated it. I’m lost for words over this. Just speechless.

Hammer needs a little work, engineers desperately need more weapon variety anyway and non-kits builds should also have some possibilities/fun.

Traits don’t synergise very well compared to other elites on other classes.

Scrapper feels a rushed mess, and far from ready. Gyros need the same complete redesign that turrets have needed for the last 3-4 years.

Sorry, but that’s my take: cancel gyros, maybe use some of their code to perhaps make turrets less kitten awful, polish the hammer, come up with an elite mechanic for engineer that isn’t a joke, redo traits with gyros gone and changes.

Scrapper is nowhere near the polish of most elites, and definitely not ready for release.

Stealth gyro, as many have pointed out, has several issues with pathing, priorities and movement speed. I think an easy fix would be to have it “insta-cast” a buff on the engineer from range that gives him an aoe stealth effect. This would keep the stealth aoe centered on the engineer and not on the buggy pathing gyro. You could limit its casting range to whatever seemed to work to avoid it simply become Mass Invis 2

Ivarr Wolfsong.2986:

Stealth gyro, as many have pointed out, has several issues with pathing, priorities and movement speed. I think an easy fix would be to have it “insta-cast” a buff on the engineer from range that gives him an aoe stealth effect. This would keep the stealth aoe centered on the engineer and not on the buggy pathing gyro. You could limit its casting range to whatever seemed to work to avoid it simply become Mass Invis 2

Make the stealth gyro aply AoE stealth on the engineer even if it’s not close, and replace the destroy command with a way to order the gyro to move where you want. It would make up for the fact that the gyro is visible, and create some interesting way of using it. You could create diversion for exemple.

Hi all,
here is my feedback from the weekend – I played PvP only (didn’t like to spoil PvE) so pls keep it in mind.

Hammer in general feels awesome, but…
Rocket Charge misses almost every time, unless I stun/root player in advance and even if, it still does not hit very often
Shock Shield’s attack part has way to short range – I would give it between 240-500 (700 even)
Shock Shield’s blocking part seams to block only attacks from in front of you – which does not help much in close combat (or vs aoe) since all the moving around

Gyros:
In general, gyros seams to weak (HP wise), underwhelming and has weird behavior/pathing. When you move around (walking/dodging in combat), they are too far behind for you to be affected by their effect. Self-destruct command take too long to activate – should be instant like in turrets.
Medic Gyro – as you are rarely affected by its secondary heal pulses, not so good
Blast Gyro tag has very weird behavior, moving strangely, siting in one place or generally not working at all. Also its basically (if it works correctly) “deal” damage once in 25s – a bit underwhelming if I may say so.
Shredder Gyro – useless, just useless and need complete rework; toolbelt skill (Spare capacitor) is nice thou
Purge gyro – the same as for Medic gyro
Bulwark Gyro – the same as for Medic and Purge Gyro – also dies way to fast, for “damage soaking thing”
Sneak Gyro – generally underwhelming; thou I see some limited uses in PvE, seems to be heavy PvP focused; tollbelt skill (Detection pulse) looks useless in PvE.

Scrapper traits:
First of all, Function gyro and Decisive Renown traits are useless!
Function gyro dies from autoattack before it can “stomp” downed player, dies to random aoe, etc.
Shocking speed is waaaaay to specific for my taste (lighting field + leap) – obviously hammer 5+3 skill combo (+ final salvo trait), but still way to specific – make it leap into any field
Stabilization core – looks useless (especially in PvE) but as you can choose not to take it, I gues its ok

Here are some of my suggestions if you are interested:
As Function Gyro and Decisive Renown are minor traits, and therefore mandatory, they could use rework as I do not see much, or any in fact, use in PvE – I mean, for first minor trait Daredevil has endurance increase, Reaper and Berzeker have modification of their skills and Chronomancer even gets extra skill!! And I am not even talking about second minor trait… Even in PvP I hardly ever used function gyro for sake – it just sucks and you are forcing it on us. Sorry about this, but Engi is my main and I am very passionate about it.

Shock shield – make it block attacks in general not just in front of you and make it attack for longer range. Animation idea :-) – dome around engineer that channels energy though the hammer into “beam” attack

Gyros – make them stick to the player, giving engineer fixed area of effect around him/her. I also like the idea of “fuel” (more gyros the faster the fuel goes down = longer/shorted duration of gyros depending on the amount of them) others are talking about.

Sneak Gyro – make it stack Might and/or Fury as well as stealth (think of ambush). Detection pulse – could cause Vulnerable / Weakness / Confusion (or combination) to affected enemies (not just the revealed ones, all affected)

Fun tion Gyro is bad. For an elite spec mechanic it’s uninspired, dull, annoying to use, rarely used outside pvp, clunky, dies easily, ai problems, too long stomp.

Why do we get the most BORING mechanic? Game is supposed to be first and foremost FUN TO PLAY. How the hell is this fun ?

Hi Irenio,

First of all, thanks a lot for your work on either the scrapper or the druid, both adding cool and refreshing mechanisms to the game.

I play mostly engineer and mesmer, so I spent most of the beta with scrapper and chronomancer, and touched a few minutes revenant, reaper and daredevil. All of them in pvp only.

On a general note, I’d say the scrapper feels rather well balanced : well played it’s amazing, badly played it’s rather low-damaging and you die as you deserve it. That’s how things should be.

The flavor of the specialization comes from the hammer and the traits, which isn’t the case for many other classes. Gyros and the utility gyro don’t weight a lot in the feeling of the scrapper.

Now in details.

Hammer:

Very enjoyable. It allows to make a great use of the numerous close range options of the class like bombs or slick shoes (with #3 it’s really funny). It feels like having the toolkit as a main weapon.

I hardly use #1, by habit, as I don’t expect auto-attack to be strong in general. Other skills deal decent damage and strong survivability when put in good use. Survivability is the thing here

Rocket charge feels odd at first, but you eventually get use to it and it’s great for repositioning. Yeah, it’s random. So your ennemy can’t anticipate the landing either. Some leaps however, first one in particular, go in the opposite direction of the target and it doesn’t feel like the expected behavior. Leap combos only work on landing and not at start.

Gyros:

While I don’t see them useless, they clearly need some rework. Especially on movement and positioning. Scrapper got a lot of access to superspeed, so gyros struggle to catch up. It’s illogical.

Bulkward gyro is the easier to use, in the sense of if it dies, it often means it did its job… well, except if caught in aoe.

Blast gyro is fun to play in a 1v1 scenario, but I expected it to run as soon as summoned. Its inner delay makes it harder to use well.

Purge gyro, well, although it could be the best condi cleanse of the class, it’s not interesting to play right now. Scrapper isn’t really designed for condition, so the poison field is of little or no use. Plus, in a condition-free situation, it’s a lost utility (a daze on a long cooldown is a lost utility). Make it a stunbreak maybe, using smelling salts on the Master? It’s a small change but it would really give a value to it : stunbreak, condi-cleanse and a daze, it’s now competitive with other utility options.

Shredder gyro… the problem with this one is that whirl combos aren’t that great. And a 12s duration is pointless as most of the fields last shorter, do we really want to use several fields to get random bolts? That is, if it ever survives this long… A recursive combo blast makes more sense, if giving the engineer more blasts isn’t an issue. That or recursive 100% projectiles.

Haven’t tried the healing gyro, so I won’t comment much on it, healing turret seems more reliable.

Sneak gyro, main problem is movement and struggle to follow.

All in all, gyros are good for their toolbelt skills.If I ever pick one, it would be for the toolbelt mainly. Purge gyro is the exception there.

Utility gyro: my main concern as a pvp player. Currently very buggy. Went to help a downed ally while I asked it to finish a foe… then I went down, and it switched to help me and ran out of fuel… ended up badly, while a good stomp would have done the job right. An other time, stomp animation went in a loop and the foe never got finished. Most of the time it’s better and quicker to do it myself.

Some ideas to make it interesting without a complete rework :

• reduce cooldown. 30s for a clunky gyro is way too much as it is.
• when off cd, allow the player to use it somehow. Stunbreak on F6, thus giving stability if traited? Using its batteries as an AED and putting it on cd Would be good for pve, which has no use of it right now.
• if off cd and the engineer goes down, make it pop and rez the Master
• more hp as it may stay for a long time rezzing a friend
• when summoned, make it pop at the target and DO THE JOB, don’t allow it to switch through priorities
• faster stomp. Yes.
• faster recharge when the scrapper stuns/interrupts a foe.

Traits:

I haven’t tried all of them, but I’m rather pleased with the choices we have. I wish superspeed could stack in duration, but while playing it wasn’t really a problem, you just have to use combo or skills right. Actually, if it stacks, rapid regeneration would be too strong.

Impact savant is my only concern. Stun reduction is good to have, but the stun increase makes little sense in a spec that gives more dazes than stuns. Worked well with supply crate though. Why not to try something like confounding suggestions, converting daze to stun?

Thank you for reading!

Ivarr Wolfsong.2986:

Stealth gyro, as many have pointed out, has several issues with pathing, priorities and movement speed. I think an easy fix would be to have it “insta-cast” a buff on the engineer from range that gives him an aoe stealth effect. This would keep the stealth aoe centered on the engineer and not on the buggy pathing gyro. You could limit its casting range to whatever seemed to work to avoid it simply become Mass Invis 2

also it shouldnt reveal the player when it gets destroyed ( because it does damage when it explodes), a good solution to this, is to make the gyros be the source of the damage, and not the scrapper(same as mesmer clones).

Truthfully, Scrapper was not as bad as I thought it might be. I stand by the idea that Function Gyro is too weak to be our “elite specialization” mechanic. Maybe if it did other things like interact with switches.

But here we go down the line:
Function Gyro: not happy with this as our elite mechanic. Should join with Decisive Renown. But at any rate. Reduce Cooldown.

Adept
Recovery Matrix: Not really a compelling trait.
Shocking Speed: Near required for healing sustain. Superspeed must stack.
Stabilization Core: I pulled of some gyro stomps without this. But overall the stability is a lot more meh than I think some people though.

Master
Decisive Renown: not a bad trait, but along with function gyro, goes unseen for a long time. In a teamfight stomps happen, but in 1v1 downed state is sort of the end. Roll together with function gyro.
Expert Examination: a PVE trait for sure. Not really competitive with RR in my testing.
Mass Momentum: Juggernaut synergy was a no go really. Scrapper itself is pure power damage what with air fields. I didn’t really like this one.
Rapid Regeneration: A good sustain trait. Does not scale with Healing Power Though. Again, Superspeed stacking?

Grandmaster
Impact Savant: Must affect stun and daze, or else pointless.
Final Salvo: I got a good bit of sustain here. Superspeed stacking? Gyros die too fast so there were a lot of lightning fields that’s for sure. This felt mandatory for gyros.
Adaptive Armor: Synergized with things like Hoelbrak runes and Mecha Legs. It was ok and synergized ok with mass momentum, but I felt a sustain loss without RR.

Hammer
Auto Attack Chain: Clunky and not a fluid as it should be. As powerful as it is, it is awkward on the swing, discouraging its use.
Electro Whirl: I liked this but I’d like to see a wider swing with a more generous hit box.
Rocket Charge: miss miss hit. Turn this into an attack chain somehow. Maybe set on cooldown if the first boost is used at all. Allow each jump to be separate. I know that is asking a lot, but everyone knows it would be awesome.
Shock Shield: better than I thought.
Thunderclap: change name to Thunderstruck (lol)

Gyros
ALL Such skills (Spirit Weapons, Mantras, Turrets, Ranger Spirits, Warrior banners) Should be changed to have their cooldown running DURING their duration in spite of the chain skill. This would mean some minor rebalancing (ok across a lot of classes) and allow for greater uptime with more abilities. This was not originally my idea, but I support it. But DO NOT make super long cooldowns. Again this is long term feedback for a lot of broken skills. All gyros have too low health, defense, and durations. Making them awkward and they get a poor grade as such. Even thought defensive gyros are insta-casted (+1 you did good there) the class still needs 1 if not 2 stunbreaks on gyros.

Medic Gyro: all defensive gyros have a nifty, while stunned, insta cast. Extend duration, or shorten cooldown. Should be like 50% uptime.
Reconstruction Field: I like that this and Defense Field follow the Scrapper.

Blast Gyro: Unlandable, awkward wonky. Make a chain where it’s more like analyze, insta casted and it just relentlessly hunts down target. Anything is better than the convoluted “hit with a dart (or miss), then the gyro runs at the target (or dies), then the gyro blows up the target (or misses).” Draw that out as a flow chart and tell me what you see wrong. Not 1, but 3 potential points of failure. Eliminate Blast Gyro Self Destruct. Just make it Blast Gyro Detonate and that alone will give this guy some power.
Bypass Coating: Sooooo non-stunbreaking slick shoes? This just needs a rework.

Bulwark Gyro: 1v1 awesome. Teamfight, Dead. Needs health and Armor.
Defense Field: No complaints, +1 you did good.

Purge Gyro: Needs health, and like all gyros, longer duration.
Chemical Field: Poison field niche is tiny gameplay wise. Turn this field into a mini Signet of Spite with all the conditions the Gyro cleansed (not really just all condis).

Shredder Gyro: Weak without a field. Up the damage… or add bleeding hence shredder.
Spare Capacitor: Why not a more fun mobile air field? I’d like all gyro fields to be mobile.

Sneak Gyro: I never encountered the bad AI bug. I love this guy. As has been said, All gyros should follow you like Elementalist Rock Barrier. Gyros have pathing like stupid minis almost.
Detection Pulse: Awesome ability. I enjoyed it.

Detonate Any Gyro: Blast finisher please? Or at least whirl finisher as they whirl to their doom. There is no real reward for this. As has been said, Duration+Health+Cooldown=Weak. So why do we want to detonate any gyro vice letting it get killed. I really hoped Gyros would have chain skills to make them compete with Kits. Detonate gyro lacks real justification gameplay wise. Or just remove it?

Overall, Scrapper was not as bad as I thought it would be. But, back to my biggest concern. Take away the Hammer and just take a rifle, Take no gyros and just take kits, and this becomes not an elite specialization. That is not true of Elementalist, as they still have overloads, or Warrior as they have Berserk mode, etc. The Function gyro is just another minor trait at best. I like how Scrapper plays with Hammer and Gyros as it feels like it has a new identity. Overall Scrapper should have had an upkeep bar for gyros or something, and who cares if that would mean stronger and mandatory gyros. I love the way regular Engineer plays, and I like the way “full” Scrapper plays. We need a strong alternative to kit swaps.

Are we supposed to be able to use the function gyro on dead npcs? If so, that didn’t work (kept trying with the dead npcs in the reactor). If its not, is it possible to get it so we can use the function gyro to res a dead npc as well?

A range increase of Rocket Charge would also be great like 500 per leap so we can use it as a gapcloser for targets shooting at us from 1500 range -__-

Let me share my thoughts on the scrapper as well, but let me preface it by saying that I didn’t have as much time as I would have liked this weekend, so I might have missed some things. I do however believe that I have a fair feel of the elite specialization.

Hammer: I feel that the auto attack change is either a bit to slow or the might on it is too short to be truly useful outside of continuous auto attacking, which is a somewhat poor option considering kits and the engineer’s other tricks. At least with juggernaut you can simply quickly switch in and out of flamethrower to do whatever while maintaining decent stack size passively. I mirror the concerns voiced in previous post about the rest of the skills, especially the bugginess of skill 3 (and it being outrun with simple swiftness) and the way skill 4 functions. Finally I felt that the cooldowns across the board were a bit too high for the hammer to be truly enjoyable.

Function Gyro: It feels nearly non-existent as a specialization mechanic, at least in pve (I was only able to use it twice in total). From what I’ve read in this thread, it didn’t see much more utility in other game modes either. I felt like playing a regular engineer who happened to use a hammer. Considering how much the elite mechanics of other professions change the flavor of said profession I’d really like to see it reworked. My suggestion would be to have it out all the time and have it stick to the scrapper. It could pulse out swiftness in a small area around it (regular, small pulses; enough to just give perma-swiftness; it’s not like that isn’t easily achieved through other means anyways) and perhaps attack a single enemy every x seconds while it’s around the scrapper. The revive/stomp mechanic could be changed to actually having the gyro fly out and thus denying the scrapper the regular benefits it gives. Instead of lives, which can be easily cleaved down, it could be given a break bar when it’s ‘out’ instead and have the gyro automatically return to the scrapper after a stun phase when the bar is broken. All together these proposed changes (denying passive functionality, travel time to and from a target and the potential of a stun phase) should allow the cooldown to be reduced or even dropped entirely. Also the gyro needs extensive rework as for now the mine is more reliable with nearly identical function and an added boonstrip.

Gyros: I like the toolbelt skills these gyros bring, the instant activation, and, if they’d work as intended, they’d bring a nice variety of utility. The last point, however is the problem. The combination of too little hp, a hard capped maximum active time, and a cooldown that was way too long, resulted in them barely having any up-time in battle, making me change them out to other skills rather quickly. And that’s ignoring AI problems as well as them simply not being able to keep up with the scrapper. I feel the CD have to be dropped down to a maximum of their ‘fuel’ time for starters. A finisher on manually destroying them would also be much appreciated. Allowing the turret traits to be applied to the gyros as well would probably make them much more attractive as well. For me personally it would be likely be enough, together with the dropped CD, to not much mind them having both hp and ‘fuel’.

As to the traits, most of them feel alright. That said stabilization core is too situational to be of any real use in combat, super speed being non-stackable hurts shocking speed, and impact savant should also affect other forms of CC or at least daze for being the third minor of the elite specialization.

Finally, I’d like to put forward the idea of introducing a trait that makes the bolts of whirl finishers targetable. This would increase the functionality of both hammer skill 2 and the whirl gyro.

I think mass momentum and juggernaut worked great together, I used it all weekend.

Other condi damage classes should be as effective as Scrapper, otherwise every group will run 4-5 scrappers to kill red guardian fast.

Similar problem with Druid and healers. Druid has the best sustained and burst heal in the game.

It would be awesome and flavorful if you used the fuel mechanic as a reset of cooldown.

The way it would work is that if your Gyro survives (lol) for its full duration and its fuel runs out then it “flies back” (please not actually as the AI has a hard enough time) to the Scrapper to be “refueled” by resetting its cooldown.

Blast and Shredder wouldn’t work with this but they are so bad that unless they are reworked entirely ANet may as well just delete them from the game since ZERO people will slot them.

Kidel.2057:

Other condi damage classes should be as effective as Scrapper, otherwise every group will run 4-5 scrappers to kill red guardian fast.

Similar problem with Druid and healers. Druid has the best sustained and burst heal in the game.

This is what i don’t get, people complain about a number of things on the scrapper, many of them being part of the original engineer and not the scrapper. Heck, a lot of the people you encountered in pvp where not using any of the gyros at all and the mechanic is only rarely available and effective.

You see people complaining on the pvp forum how scrapper is too strong against conditions when most of this comes from alchemy. Then you see others claiming it has too much support which is once again mostly part of the original class. As for the damage the might stacks from mass momentum get impressive only when you combine it with the juggernaut trait which is a grandmaster in a offensive tree, or alchemy which is a boon focused tree.

And this tree have very, very, very little to do with condition builds.

Its a tanky/bruiser tree, and if our existing options become too strong with yet another defensive tree (but remember that it is already less supportive than both alchemy and inventions) is another question.

I played alot on Scrapper during the beta (played stronghold, WvW, PvE / raid) and I see some things that should be changed / improved in my opinion.

Hammer:
The hammer is a cool looking weapon with nice ability’s. Although there are 2 major problems. The first one is the auto attack chain. Alot of people have been arguing about this but I think the damage of the weapon is ok, but the aftercast / casttime on the skills are just too high. The tooltip says it’s 0.5 sec per skill of the chain, so it would take 1.5 sec to go through the full chain theoretically. But in the beta it took like 2.5 – 3 seconds to complete the chain, which is just too much.

Second thing is the #3 skill rocket charge. This skill is damage wise ok but the leaps are awfull. I jumped off a cliff alot of times cause this skill leaps around your target randomly (a bit like unrelenting assault of the revenant). Also the first leap seems to always go to the direction your character is looking, 2nd and 3rd leap are going towards the target then. Also the leap finisher only seems to trigger if the leap ends in a field where other leap finishers will trigger also if you start or go through a field.

Also a little minor thing is the skill #2’s attack radius. Other people also said things about this, but basicly with the current radius it would have a lower range then a normal melee attack.

Gyro’s
Here I have to admit that I didn’t use all of the gyro’s, I only used the bulwark gyro, blast gyro, shredder gyro and sneak gyro. All of the other gyro’s are in my opinion useless in it’s current state.

Bulwark gyro
Bulwark gyro still has too less HP to be really usefull in my opinion. Also something that can make the gyro 100% complete useless is the fact that it applies it’s buff after 3 seconds once it’s summoned. I think that it’s buff should be applied immediately when summoned. The toolbelt skill is good.

Blast gyro
The blast gyro once I used it felt useless. It’s dodgeable twice and it’s damage is very low. Also it takes pretty long for the gyro to start moving or to detonate. Also the AI isn’t that great. Also the toolbelt skill doesn’t add that much. Looked like a promising skill but at this point it looks a bit dissapointing.

Shredder gyro
Alot of people said that this is probably the best gyro there is. Personally I don’t like it, I don’t feel like the whirl finisher is adding that much to the engineer. Toolbelt skill is ok, not great but ok.

Sneak Gyro
For this gyro the AI is the major problem. The gyro seems to follow the enemy, but he’s not the one to get stealthed. Also I would increase the radius of the gyro so you have a bit more space to walk around. It would also be nice if the toolbelt skill reveals targets that are not stealthed.

Traits
Most of the traits are ok just 1 thing I am not sure of that it works. The 2nd minor trait that gives you might and superspeed on a finish didn’t pop up on a finish I did myself, only from my function gyro. Also I get them if my function gyro was busy finishing but someone else finished my enemy earlier. Not sure if this is intended though.

Overall the scrapper looks like alot of fun to me!

I’ve been playing raids with the scrapper. Well, at least on Friday evening. It felt just a bit weak and underwhelming. The aftercast takes too long. In 30sec I was able to auto-attack only 10 times in a row, though the cumulated time should be 2,5secs. In addition the estimated damage with the AA chain ( in 30secs, full buffed)is weaker than Reaper greatsword/reapershroud AA though engineer(scrapper) got more multiplier than reaper-necro. At least, both have good weapon coefficients.

The stealth gyro is just awful for aggroing volatile blooms in TA.

Function Gyro

Pulling off a res with this felt decently satisfying. Being able to stay in combat was nice, however often it simply died to some type of AoE damage. On top of that, I don’t feel like it establishes a different feel for the Engineer at all, especially with it being something

• on a 30 second cooldown
• signified only be a trait icon
• not shown unless you actually have the chance to revive/stomp someone

Hammer

Felt great. The aftercast on Hammer #3 feels a bit clunky and counter-intuitive to the fantasy of chasing someone down like a maniac however I didn’t actually really enjoy using it for travel. In combat it can act a little quirky from time to time with hitting.

Hammer #5 felt a bit undertuned.

Traits

Minors

They all feel undertuned. I think they should all be changed as the benefits are far too situational to feel like they are a consistent upgrade to my character’s power during play.

Majors

Recovery Matrix and Final Salvo felt unrewarding, other than that I think the traits are in a pretty good place. The damage increase from Perfectly Weighted should be rolled into the Hammer’s baseline (and then some) and have an additional effect.

Blowing up gyros and turrets should be / feel the same. So please remove the cast time of the gyro detonate and give them a blast finisher. Thanks

Function Gyro just got in my way whenever I went to stomp or rez someone. As I was not used to it, other players stomped my kill before I did because it took me too long to realize my toon wasn’t performing the stomp animation because the Function Gyro was trying to.

Xyonon.3987:

Blowing up gyros and turrets should be / feel the same. So please remove the cast time of the gyro detonate and give them a blast finisher. Thanks

What? Why?

If anything, we should be striving to make them as different as we possibly can.

They definately need improvement in this department, but I think we can come up with something better than ‘like turrets.’