Guild Wars 2

This new grenade nerf makes no difference because we can now officially stack 25 stacks of might forever. even outside combat i can get it to about 15.
The grenade nerf is only to skill 1. They did add damage to blindness grenade(I never used) and The poison grenade skill. So the trade of not so bad.
The main thing to note is dual wielding on main hand is almost mandatory. Sigil of strength is now amazing. I also picked up a the precision stacking sigil. so i can get my crit damage and proc rate higher.
This class has definitely not been nerfed.
All i should say is pure cookie cuter grenade build have to use might stacks. so basically hard core or you get low dps.
So spam those elixirs.
check this guys. i thought you knew dps.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE#gid=0

Yes, spam those elixirs instead of doing damage.

Almost as bad of an idea as the perma-protection elementalist (the actual method, not the current 25s protection bug).

Kamahl.3621:

Yes, spam those elixirs instead of doing damage.

Almost as bad of an idea as the perma-protection elementalist (the actual method, not the current 25s protection bug).

Well you need to do alot less spamming because of the sigil of strength procing every 2 seconds

Wasting time to stack might is a bad idea overall no matter the situation, would you waste all your utilities and keep switkittenit in the middle of pvp actually? and don’t even get me started on the usefulness of flamethrower please.

Mell.4873:

The grenade nerf is only to skill 1. They did add damage to blindness grenade(I never used) and The poison grenade skill. So the trade of not so bad.

kitten? you seriously?

Skill #1 grenade skill is the spammed one.
To make up for a 30% nerf on that one, you need a lot of compensation.

Sigils are a good start, but not enough for that 30% on #1.

The damage to blinding and poison grenade is pretty low.
Those grenades have a long cooldown as well.
So this makes up for very little damage in the end.

Question:
Why did you never use the blinding grenade?
In what environment did you conclude that letting your target(s) miss was not usefull?
All I can think of is some pve fights where you stay ranged while others are in melee and you couldn’t care less if the target hits them.

25 stacks of might without using flamethrower?
Haven’t tested it, so not sure.

The sigils obviously are a great buff.
Or a fix, but it’s a buffing fix at least

Mell.4873:

Kamahl.3621:

Yes, spam those elixirs instead of doing damage.

Almost as bad of an idea as the perma-protection elementalist (the actual method, not the current 25s protection bug).

Well you need to do alot less spamming because of the sigil of strength procing every 2 seconds

How does a sigil of str proc every 2 secs when it has a 5sec internal cooldown?

Blinding grenade was weak.
.85 cast time, 0-1.5s travel time
Basically, any attack you wanted to miss, it wouldn’t get their fast enough to make them miss.
Think war aimed shot. No noes! blind go!!!!. too late.
That it did no damage just kindof sealed the deal. there is/was little to no reason to throw it ever.

HgH buff is smaller then it seems. its self only. so elixir H and B basically only.
You probably weren’t chugging elixir R. so really, its 2 more stacks of might, stacked.

Shrapnel buff. 15% chance on 3 hits per throw. 12s duration, 15s with 30 explosives.
I think this has no hidden cd. not sure. That is a good amount of bleeding.

Problem. Shrapnel grenade is like 12 stacks of bleeding as well, when used consistently.
This trait+shrapnel grenade means you alone can approach 25 bleed cap. (if you go 5 in firearms, you almost certainly will.)
Of note. 25 stacks of bleed is ALOT of bleed. (paired with blunderbuss?)
Or pistols? 30 firearms, 10 explosives. Barrage and shrapnel to supplement pistol.

5% damage when not full end, might still be better for pure damage builds.

Sigils obviously a potentially nice buff. Not sure which will be best yet.
Grenades hit 3 times, 8 with barrage and grenadier. Sigil of Air then being really good, if you run around in melee range. bloodlust good for range. 5% damage Dunno really.
Will pistols be the go to, for 2 sigils? Pve, probably. you dont need rifles KB to interrupt.

Sitting duck was buffed as well. very nicely.

This guy is either hardcore trolling or hardcore delusional. For his sake I hope it’s the former.

Rfreak.6591:

Wasting time to stack might is a bad idea overall no matter the situation, would you waste all your utilities and keep switkittenit in the middle of pvp actually? and don’t even get me started on the usefulness of flamethrower please.

It doesn’t mater it still highest dps. i not saying its viable pvp. i don’t even use eng in spvp. i do use grenades in wvw tho.

Tazdingo.8249:

Mell.4873:

The grenade nerf is only to skill 1. They did add damage to blindness grenade(I never used) and The poison grenade skill. So the trade of not so bad.

kitten? you seriously?

what does that mean. someone tell me what kitten means. Im not trolling.

Kimbald.2697:

Skill #1 grenade skill is the spammed one.
To make up for a 30% nerf on that one, you need a lot of compensation.

Sigils are a good start, but not enough for that 30% on #1.

The damage to blinding and poison grenade is pretty low.
Those grenades have a long cooldown as well.
So this makes up for very little damage in the end.

Question:
Why did you never use the blinding grenade?
In what environment did you conclude that letting your target(s) miss was not usefull?
All I can think of is some pve fights where you stay ranged while others are in melee and you couldn’t care less if the target hits them.

25 stacks of might without using flamethrower?
Haven’t tested it, so not sure.

The sigils obviously are a great buff.
Or a fix, but it’s a buffing fix at least

Even at 30% damage reduction there is still so many advantages of using grenades.
If you lower the cooldowns u can get 20% of you dps from the not nerfed sharpel grenade.
blind is useless becouse its only once. poison good becouse it stops people healing to much.
Over all we have taken a hit to dps. but its more like 10% not 30%.
mostly becouse of the offset that we can now get 25 stacks or might instead of about 18. we also dont have to spam elixirs so much if we are doing alot of damage.

Alot of hits= 25 stacks
not alot hits so you spam elixers = 25 stacks

Moddo.7105:

Mell.4873:

Kamahl.3621:

Yes, spam those elixirs instead of doing damage.

Almost as bad of an idea as the perma-protection elementalist (the actual method, not the current 25s protection bug).

Well you need to do alot less spamming because of the sigil of strength procing every 2 seconds

How does a sigil of str proc every 2 secs when it has a 5sec internal cooldown?

wiki says its 2 seconds internal.

RaynStargaze.6510:

smoke grenade and posion grenade damage is NON EXISTINGLY LOW

I just want you to know…

after the 15% dmg nerf in the last patch + the 30% in this one – grenades were efficiently nerfed for 45%!!!! of their initial dmg even though NO ONE EVER WHINED ABOUT THEM BEING OP!

shrapnel – the only grenade that still has some dmg output (cant count frost cuz 25 sek cd lolololol) is shrapnel grenade – shrapnel grenade was ALREADY NERFED FOR 20% dmg in the last patch so no biggie!

Right now YOU CAN DEAL MORE DAMAGE WITH SPAMMING BOMBS THAN YOU CAN DEAL WITH THE GRENADES AND THE 30 POINTS GRENADIER TRAIT!!!!!!!

Thief damage is still kittening kittenedly OP compared to this kitten i get up to 5K hits of my shortbow skill"2" on 1/2 sek cd!!!!! THIS IS DAMAGE kitten YOU ANET kitten YOUUU

Shrapnel grenade was reduced 18% previously in spvp only.
but was returned to its original state this patch. So, it was buffed 18% this patch. No change in pve/wvw at all.

Thief shortbow is .85s

Also, you don’t think bomb1 SHOULD be doing more dps point blank then grenades?
I don’t know about you, but that was one of my complaints. Point blank, grenades outclassed bombs. why would I use bombs, when I could just throw grenades at my feet, and deal 90% more damage?
And frankly, with grenadier, its still REALLY close. 1 power on grenades, vs 1.25 power scaling on bomb1. But grenades hit 3 times. 3 vul stacks, vs 1, and any other proc based trait.

@RaynStargaze.6510

I agree, but you forgot to mention grenades also scatter so they do even less damage when ranged, also… is it just me or poison grenades scatter even more than be4?

Casia.4281:

Blinding grenade was weak.
.85 cast time, 0-1.5s travel time
Basically, any attack you wanted to miss, it wouldn’t get their fast enough to make them miss.
Think war aimed shot. No noes! blind go!!!!. too late.
That it did no damage just kindof sealed the deal. there is/was little to no reason to throw it ever.

HgH buff is smaller then it seems. its self only. so elixir H and B basically only.
You probably weren’t chugging elixir R. so really, its 2 more stacks of might, stacked.

Shrapnel buff. 15% chance on 3 hits per throw. 12s duration, 15s with 30 explosives.
I think this has no hidden cd. not sure. That is a good amount of bleeding.

Problem. Shrapnel grenade is like 12 stacks of bleeding as well, when used consistently.
This trait+shrapnel grenade means you alone can approach 25 bleed cap. (if you go 5 in firearms, you almost certainly will.)
Of note. 25 stacks of bleed is ALOT of bleed. (paired with blunderbuss?)
Or pistols? 30 firearms, 10 explosives. Barrage and shrapnel to supplement pistol.

5% damage when not full end, might still be better for pure damage builds.

Sigils obviously a potentially nice buff. Not sure which will be best yet.
Grenades hit 3 times, 8 with barrage and grenadier. Sigil of Air then being really good, if you run around in melee range. bloodlust good for range. 5% damage Dunno really.
Will pistols be the go to, for 2 sigils? Pve, probably. you dont need rifles KB to interrupt.

Sitting duck was buffed as well. very nicely.

I think i agree with what you saying what ever it is.
over all you pointed out there are now alot of other builds opened up to kit builds. the potential to have weakness or chilled or bleed constantly up is massive.
There is alot more potential. it isnt like let grab grenades and go for berserker gear kitten

blurps.2340:

This guy is either hardcore trolling or hardcore delusional. For his sake I hope it’s the former.

i am 100% not trolling you. i can prove this with maths but i have done this alot.

RaynStargaze.6510:

smoke grenade and posion grenade damage is NON EXISTINGLY LOW

I just want you to know…

after the 15% dmg nerf in the last patch + the 30% in this one – grenades were efficiently nerfed for 45%!!!! of their initial dmg even though NO ONE EVER WHINED ABOUT THEM BEING OP!

shrapnel – the only grenade that still has some dmg output (cant count frost cuz 25 sek cd lolololol) is shrapnel grenade – shrapnel grenade was ALREADY NERFED FOR 20% dmg in the last patch so no biggie!

Right now YOU CAN DEAL MORE DAMAGE WITH SPAMMING BOMBS THAN YOU CAN DEAL WITH THE GRENADES AND THE 30 POINTS GRENADIER TRAIT!!!!!!!

Thief damage is still kittening kittenedly OP compared to this kitten i get up to 5K hits of my shortbow skill"2" on 1/2 sek cd!!!!! THIS IS DAMAGE kitten YOU ANET kitten YOUUU

Just use bomb aswell when you trait into grenades u can easily switch to bombs. use your 25 stacks of might on that.
but when it comes to ranged the rifle or grenades are about even on skill 1.
over all the point stands 875 extra power beats any class hands down. At 3.5k power no one can beat you.

@Mell.4873

You are probably missing many points so I’ll start with the first, kitten is an automated bad-words correction in order to keep things polite, kittens=cats, it’s pretty fun to see people say it many times, anyway back to topic, grenades were our only way to do damage on par with other classes and to be effective it requires:

-30 points
-a dedicated slot
-a power equipment to make up for the atk-power stat loss from kit swapping

AND on top of it grenades scatter, always, you literally have to be FAR away from your sitting duck target in order to use this because of the projectile animation being so slow to hit the target, which ultimately punishes those that try and stay in the AoE.

Now consider this, the already extremely situational kit (grenades can be used effectively in WvW and dungeons only) gets nerfed, we don’t have another reliable way to DPS, we already struggle a lot when pulling more than one mob in pve without bombs, we are very likely to die, especially if you consider how sucky our downed skills are, our turrets don’t work, all traits are bugged and they are sucky by default, elixirs are sub-par utilities, gadgets are even worse, our main weapons are huge let downs which got a bit of utility but ultimately can’t do a thing all alone, we don’t have useful elites, the list goes on and on and guess what?

Yep we don’t have a decent thing to play with.

Couple this with non-existent attention of devs in our section (just check the topics, the only official answers are just mods closing topics, we only got a couple messages from Jon and they weren’t exactly useful, seemed rushed, and not satisfyin at all), and you’ll get the idea of what’s goin on, for more information check the bug list, it’s been the same since day1 besides the sigil thingie.

Tk, pistols, EG, discharge all wreck melee aoe.
If you can’t kill things with acid bath doing 12k damage to npcs that just stand in it..

If you are having trouble with multiple mobs in pve, with your engineer, you are doing something very very wrong.

Turrets yeah. need some fixing.
Gadgets yeah. need some fixing.
Elixirs sub par… wait what? Elixirs are amazing dude.

@Casia.4281

If you think you are doing enough damage compared to other classes (especially effort-wise) you are doing something very very wrong

Also you do realize a listed just a few of the things that r actually wrong with our class right?

If they are not ranged weapons, why do thiefs keep reflecting them back in my face to insta gib me?

OMG, silver lining!! We wont murder ourselfs on memsers/dagger storm as much!!
Totally a buff guys.

About the blinding grenade (so @Casia mostly):

you are correct that it can’t prevent anything that is being cast.

But that also means our target is either a single boss, or a single player.

In larger fights, the grenade helps a lot, even if it’s not aimed to interrupt anything specific.

This touches on something extremely broken:
why the hell are we using an aoe kit on a single target in the first place?
Don’t we have anything else that ranges as far? Euh, no.
Don’t we have anything that hits as hard? Euh, no.

Saying that the blinding grenade isn’t good as interrupt, is also saying that no other form of engineer dps is worth using over grenades on a single target.

Any nerf to grenades should have come with fixes and buffs to other dps options.
For starters: give something else a 1500 range.

blurps.2340:

This guy is either hardcore trolling or hardcore delusional. For his sake I hope it’s the former.

Good troll imo, lots of hits.

Rfreak.6591:

@Casia.4281

If you think you are doing enough damage compared to other classes (especially effort-wise) you are doing something very very wrong

Well, engi is not my only character.

1 or 2 burst abilities for 10k, does not make up for grenade 1 doing 2-4k every .85s

Thief 20 mug, CnD, backstab. wow great. is it aoe? can he do that every 5seconds?
Because I was dealing 20k damage over 5 seconds, nonstop, aoe.
pvdoor. bull. Carpet bombing. Just laying down a constant raw damage in wvw. See someone CC’d or advancing/retreating? lay it on them, and/or lead them a bit.

Casia.4281:

1 or 2 burst abilities for 10k, does not make up for grenade 1 doing 2-4k every .85s

Highest possible dmg of one nade with full Glasscannon gear was pre patch approximately 1200-1300 crit vs mid target golem

sooo pics or gtfo

Also it still doesnt change the fact that nades actually need to HIT! while all other attacks are pretty much auto target instant win kitten ezmode

Also BURST >>>>>>>> DPS in pvp

@Casia.4281

actually yes, if I’m not wrong they can hit up to 3 targets if packed together, but their daggers won’t scatter like grenades do+theyz fast and people won’t dodge’em, also yea they can do it every X seconds, ‘coz they don’t use just utilities, they have cloak and dagger!

plus they can switch to the highly reliable pistols which can blind ’till kingdom come AND do damage at the same time thanks to the combo field.

Kimbald.2697:

About the blinding grenade (so @Casia mostly):

you are correct that it can’t prevent anything that is being cast.

But that also means our target is either a single boss, or a single player.

In larger fights, the grenade helps a lot, even if it’s not aimed to interrupt anything specific.

This touches on something extremely broken:
why the hell are we using an aoe kit on a single target in the first place?
Don’t we have anything else that ranges as far? Euh, no.
Don’t we have anything that hits as hard? Euh, no.

Saying that the blinding grenade isn’t good as interrupt, is also saying that no other form of engineer dps is worth using over grenades on a single target.

Any nerf to grenades should have come with fixes and buffs to other dps options.
For starters: give something else a 1500 range.

yeah. well I think grenades need a complete overhaul honestly. This nerfing their base is a giant mistake. As grenades without grenadier are now unusable. Why are they balanced assuming you have it? Pistols have this same problem. p1 was nerfed into oblivion with the assumption you have coated bullets. I was expecting when I rolled engi, to be able to swap kits on the fly as needed. But we can’t. if I trait for flamethrower. I can not realistically swap to TK or grenades. I have to use rifle, as rifle is the only raw weapon that is viable without a specific trait. this is in general a larger engi problem of course.

But with grenades. the 2 and 3 thing needs to go. its breaking steel packed explosives and makes grenadier too strong in the first place. 3 stacks of vul every throw. and 8 on barrage is absurd. Nothing comes CLOSE to that in raw damage buff for you and your allies.
6seconds you personally have stacked 24 vul stacks aoe. That is why I look at things like goggles and laugh. 6s of 10 stacks of vul? lol. yeah. ok. Barrage does 12k damage, and stacks 8 stacks of vul. high damage, tight aoe. This should be swapped. Large aoe, moderate damage. Bombs should be high damage, mid aoe.

why is grenade 1 a .85s cast in the first place? Maybe it should be higher risk/reward.
180 aoe. Back to its original .5 scaling per grenade, 1.25 cast time recharge.
Larger aoe, heavy damage, but not as spam-able.

Blinding grenade should be changed as well. again 2 or 3 grenades for a blind does nothing. it only blocks one shot. frankly, should give aegis, not blind. and be point blank 240 aoe.

@Casia.4281

As vulnerability works now it’s NOT a reliable debuff, that’s why I think only engineers can use it effectively, we are the only class that can get it to max stack (which is the only time vulnerability’s useful), too bad we can’t get advantage of it due to extremely low overall damage.

If I fully trait my elixir gun, which costs me a LOT more traits than 30 point grenadier, I can debuff a single target.
In theory, on a single target, this should outshine grenades, right?
Grenades being an aoe kit after all, elixir gun being a support kit.

1. the damage is a lot less than grenades, so any debuffing I do better make up for that loss in damage.

2. Even when spending seperate trait on range (grenadier has range build into it) I still am 300 range short of my grenades.

3. grenades stack vulnerability, as explained above.
They do it on multiple targets as well.
Elixir gun weakness might be comparable, but only single target of course.
It has to be a lot stronger as effect to make up for the lesser damage.

4. Elixir gun heals, which is a winner compared to grenades in any case.
But your healing targets either have to stand near you, or they have to remain in the circle.
In any case, it’s better than no healing obviously.
EG #5 was broken, but it should have recieved some buff after being fixed.
The old state was a tad weak for being a stationary field.
Great for combo’s of course, aoe retaliation being one of the best.

5. Both EG #3 and #4 are actually pretty good skills.
EG #3 helps others a lot (more than you notice yourself), and #4 does more damage than people give it credit for.
Both good supplements to the damage and support role.
Except that you have just given up any range advantage you had, you are now weilding a green flamethrower in range.

I would love to use elixir gun over grenades to help my team, but except on bosses without adds being around, I don’t see how grenades isn’t better.

Nerf grenade #1 by 30%
Sure, but than buff Elixir gun #1 by 30% too please.

In other words: don’t let grenades be the best at everything, and than nerf it without buffing the other options!

Bouncing EG1.
And buff fumigate. EG3 is actually awful.

Make it happen!

Casia.4281:

Bouncing EG1.
And buff fumigate. EG3 is actually awful.

Make it happen!

good idea.

And for the life of me I can’t understand how a long range kit like EG, even when spending 3 major traits in at least 2 seperate lines, still only gives 1200 range.
Which is grenades baseline, and grenadier trait suddenly makes that 1500 as a ‘sidenote’.

Grenadier trait is fine, it’s the other kit traits that are too weak.
Piercing pisols at least should increase range to 1500 as well.
And spending 3 traits on EG and FT should give you weapons stronger than grenades or bombs…

I still like my engineer, and not saying it’s all broken.
But the logic is lacking, and the versatility we pay for is only good on paper.

Rfreak.6591:

@Mell.4873

You are probably missing many points so I’ll start with the first, kitten is an automated bad-words correction in order to keep things polite, kittens=cats, it’s pretty fun to see people say it many times, anyway back to topic, grenades were our only way to do damage on par with other classes and to be effective it requires:

-30 points
-a dedicated slot
-a power equipment to make up for the atk-power stat loss from kit swapping

AND on top of it grenades scatter, always, you literally have to be FAR away from your sitting duck target in order to use this because of the projectile animation being so slow to hit the target, which ultimately punishes those that try and stay in the AoE.

Now consider this, the already extremely situational kit (grenades can be used effectively in WvW and dungeons only) gets nerfed, we don’t have another reliable way to DPS, we already struggle a lot when pulling more than one mob in pve without bombs, we are very likely to die, especially if you consider how sucky our downed skills are, our turrets don’t work, all traits are bugged and they are sucky by default, elixirs are sub-par utilities, gadgets are even worse, our main weapons are huge let downs which got a bit of utility but ultimately can’t do a thing all alone, we don’t have useful elites, the list goes on and on and guess what?

Yep we don’t have a decent thing to play with.

Couple this with non-existent attention of devs in our section (just check the topics, the only official answers are just mods closing topics, we only got a couple messages from Jon and they weren’t exactly useful, seemed rushed, and not satisfyin at all), and you’ll get the idea of what’s goin on, for more information check the bug list, it’s been the same since day1 besides the sigil thingie.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuAXA8GRArcRdEZ2UzAydXhkLXRhM19sUXlxT2ZfUVE#gid=0

Our dps is the highest for one reason, Might. No mater what we use might makes all the difference. there is only one class that can compare to use.
The longbow at long ranged is the only ranged weapon that is exactly the same.

My spreed sheet shows how close it is.
I have buffed the power of the engineer skill and that’s it. i also added 25% extra damage to longbow for full endurance 10% flanking 10% and 5% on longbow trait.
I NEVER play eng spvp. it sucks i know.
It still doesn’t void it has highest dps over all.

RaynStargaze.6510:

I will only say this once more for all the insanely kitten ppl here who obviously never played grenades in pvp.

GRENADES ARE NOT! RANGED WEAPONS!

If you want to utilize grenades YOU MUST! get as close as possible for point blank shots! PERIOD! NO WAY YOU`RE EVER HITTING ANYONE WHO ISNT A COMPLETE MORON UNLESS YOU GET CLOSE OR CC!

also zerg spamming in WvW is NOT PVP!

I ALSO HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE HELL EVERYONE IS GETTING 25STACKS OF MIGHT + TRIPLE NADES + UTILITY – APPARENTYL ALL YOU HAVE UNLIMITED TRAIT POINTS AND UTILITY SLOTS FACEPALM

GOD AHHHHH SRSLY THE TIME I WASTED WITH THIS GAME FOR NOTHINGkitten/p>

you can stack might duration, boon duration and traits to about 100%.
So that 2 stacks of 20 second might last 40 seconds.
grenades a viable wvw and pve. spvp i think does not represent most of the game. so grenades are awesome.

Casia.4281:

If they are not ranged weapons, why do thiefs keep reflecting them back in my face to insta gib me?

OMG, silver lining!! We wont murder ourselfs on memsers/dagger storm as much!!
Totally a buff guys.

lol that would be funny to watch. try rolling.

@Mell.4873

Might is the worst buff, it requires huge amounts of stacks and dedicated builds in order to be effective, you shouldn’t do paper maths like that, just think about this, the time you waste buffing is time you could have used skills, many skills, which means damage, also in order to be effective you have to keep buffing might, which will make you lose the focus on the ongoin battle and is likely to run out be4 you killed everything, not to mention wasting traits, points, runes, sigils, skill slots for elixirs or… even worse… the flamthrower.

Might is not useful, not worth stacking, in any combat situation, period.

Rfreak.6591:

@Casia.4281

As vulnerability works now it’s NOT a reliable debuff, that’s why I think only engineers can use it effectively, we are the only class that can get it to max stack (which is the only time vulnerability’s useful), too bad we can’t get advantage of it due to extremely low overall damage.

except it isn’t low damage over all. stack might and it isn’t.

Kimbald.2697:

If I fully trait my elixir gun, which costs me a LOT more traits than 30 point grenadier, I can debuff a single target.
In theory, on a single target, this should outshine grenades, right?
Grenades being an aoe kit after all, elixir gun being a support kit.

1. the damage is a lot less than grenades, so any debuffing I do better make up for that loss in damage.

2. Even when spending seperate trait on range (grenadier has range build into it) I still am 300 range short of my grenades.

3. grenades stack vulnerability, as explained above.
They do it on multiple targets as well.
Elixir gun weakness might be comparable, but only single target of course.
It has to be a lot stronger as effect to make up for the lesser damage.

4. Elixir gun heals, which is a winner compared to grenades in any case.
But your healing targets either have to stand near you, or they have to remain in the circle.
In any case, it’s better than no healing obviously.
EG #5 was broken, but it should have recieved some buff after being fixed.
The old state was a tad weak for being a stationary field.
Great for combo’s of course, aoe retaliation being one of the best.

5. Both EG #3 and #4 are actually pretty good skills.
EG #3 helps others a lot (more than you notice yourself), and #4 does more damage than people give it credit for.
Both good supplements to the damage and support role.
Except that you have just given up any range advantage you had, you are now weilding a green flamethrower in range.

I would love to use elixir gun over grenades to help my team, but except on bosses without adds being around, I don’t see how grenades isn’t better.

Nerf grenade #1 by 30%
Sure, but than buff Elixir gun #1 by 30% too please.

In other words: don’t let grenades be the best at everything, and than nerf it without buffing the other options!

The biggest problem is they nerfed the super elixir by about 50%. So there goes that build.

Kimbald.2697:

Casia.4281:

Bouncing EG1.
And buff fumigate. EG3 is actually awful.

Make it happen!

good idea.

And for the life of me I can’t understand how a long range kit like EG, even when spending 3 major traits in at least 2 seperate lines, still only gives 1200 range.
Which is grenades baseline, and grenadier trait suddenly makes that 1500 as a ‘sidenote’.

Grenadier trait is fine, it’s the other kit traits that are too weak.
Piercing pisols at least should increase range to 1500 as well.
And spending 3 traits on EG and FT should give you weapons stronger than grenades or bombs…

I still like my engineer, and not saying it’s all broken.
But the logic is lacking, and the versatility we pay for is only good on paper.

yeah it is only good on paper. making elixir build and grenades work takes alot of practice.

Rfreak.6591:

@Mell.4873

Might is the worst buff, it requires huge amounts of stacks and dedicated builds in order to be effective, you shouldn’t do paper maths like that, just think about this, the time you waste buffing is time you could have used skills, many skills, which means damage, also in order to be effective you have to keep buffing might, which will make you lose the focus on the ongoin battle and is likely to run out be4 you killed everything, not to mention wasting traits, points, runes, sigils, skill slots for elixirs or… even worse… the flamthrower.

Might is not useful, not worth stacking, in any combat situation, period.

elixir H 20 second cool down. elixir b and c have 32 seconds.
so that’s like 3 seconds to cast them and grenades are thrown every second.
2/32+1/20 = 0.1125 or 11.25% damage reduction.
so 25 stacks of might is about 50% increase in damage so 38.75 increase in damage.
not to mention the hps and the fury and swiftness. also all the other buffs.
i wouldn’t use the throw elixirs unless you want to buff party or you have a moment where u cant fight enemy.
An almost 40% increase in damage is worth it.
I find constantly that i pull agro on bosses because i do an absurd amount of damage. in wvw i can down people in about 6-8 second on towers and once there down. ohh good luck rezing him.

how do i get 25 stacks of might?

i got HGH and jaggernaut and i got only elixirs eq on utilty i use all tool belt skills and utility i get max 14 – 15 it goes directly down after 2 – 3 sec to 12 then 1sec 11 10 9

i obv need huge help

EDIT : nvm i rather delete my enginer than being 110% based on Might just saw the topic

Kuruptz.4782:

how do i get 25 stacks of might?

i got HGH and jaggernaut and all elixirs equupped spammed i get max 14 – 15 it goes directly down after 2 – 3 sec to 12 then 1sec 11 10 9

You need the elixir traits also enhanced performance. runes on you gear for might duration or boon duration. i do 2 15% boon duration and one 20% might duration.
Also eat boon duration food will help 20%+
You will also prob need the weapon swapping sigil or the on crit sigil for might.
With all these u can remain at 25 stacks.

Mell.4873:

Kuruptz.4782:

how do i get 25 stacks of might?

i got HGH and jaggernaut and all elixirs equupped spammed i get max 14 – 15 it goes directly down after 2 – 3 sec to 12 then 1sec 11 10 9

You need the elixir traits also enhanced performance. runes on you gear for might duration or boon duration. i do 2 15% boon duration and one 20% might duration.
Also eat boon duration food will help 20%+
You will also prob need the weapon swapping sigil or the on crit sigil for might.
With all these u can remain at 25 stacks.

my mesmer will delete your engineer for you while your busy stacking up might lol

nah but i though there was a way to get it without having to use special sigil and food buffs

never used grenades anyway but if they spec into HGH dont they lose precision from trait tree or the incr crit dmg? though anyone with brain can and will probly avoid grenades since its easy after you played GW2 a while

Kuruptz.4782:

Mell.4873:

Kuruptz.4782:

how do i get 25 stacks of might?

i got HGH and jaggernaut and all elixirs equupped spammed i get max 14 – 15 it goes directly down after 2 – 3 sec to 12 then 1sec 11 10 9

You need the elixir traits also enhanced performance. runes on you gear for might duration or boon duration. i do 2 15% boon duration and one 20% might duration.
Also eat boon duration food will help 20%+
You will also prob need the weapon swapping sigil or the on crit sigil for might.
With all these u can remain at 25 stacks.

my mesmer will delete your engineer for you while your busy stacking up might lol

nah but i though there was a way to get it without having to use special sigil and food buffs

never used grenades anyway but if they spec into HGH dont they lose precision from trait tree or the incr crit dmg? though anyone with brain can and will probly avoid grenades since its easy after you played GW2 a while

Of coarse i use Mesmer for any spvp or 1v1 match engineer sucks at pvp in general really.
i have used every class and engineer has the most versatility and also the highest dps if you willing to get carpal tunnel.

S/tPvP is the one and only part of the game where all those many gimmick builds can actually be somewhat useful ( in the hands of a very good player ).

Still highest DPS you say? So what? This isn’t viable in sPvP/tPvP or WvW. You mean you expect your target to sit patiently while you spam your elixirs and wait till you get 25 stacks? Also if you spam your elixirs, when the time you need to use it, you can’t because it is on cool down after using it to stack might.

So we’re highest DPS in paper, does that help the fact that it doesn’t mean a thing in actual gameplay? No. Engineers NEED to be fixed. Being highest DPS in paper doesn’t mean a thing.

Oh btw in case you don’t know, Super Elixir was not nerfed. It was FIXED. It was bugged pre-patch and always healed for the initial impulse of 400 instead of 400 initial and 150 for the following pulses. Get your facts right first.

You’re losing all your credibility here. Engineers suck at pvp in general, you say? Maybe you mean you suck in PvP as an engineer. More probably you think engineer suck because you use builds like these which are only useful for paper math.

Kyon.9735:

Still highest DPS you say? So what? This isn’t viable in sPvP/tPvP or WvW. You mean you expect your target to sit patiently while you spam your elixirs and wait till you get 25 stacks? Also if you spam your elixirs, when the time you need to use it, you can’t because it is on cool down after using it to stack might.

So we’re highest DPS in paper, does that help the fact that it doesn’t mean a thing in actual gameplay? No. Engineers NEED to be fixed. Being highest DPS in paper doesn’t mean a thing.

Oh btw in case you don’t know, Super Elixir was not nerfed. It was FIXED. It was bugged pre-patch and always healed for the initial impulse of 400 instead of 400 initial and 150 for the following pulses. Get your facts right first.

You’re losing all your credibility here. Engineers suck at pvp in general, you say? Maybe you mean you suck in PvP as an engineer. More probably you think engineer suck because you use builds like these which are only useful for paper math.

The only elixir i sometimes dont spam is condition removal. but normally it comes off cool down when i need it.
I have said tim and time again you don’t have to use grenades all the time. i mostly use it in wvw when people go down if i get a 1v1 or 1v2. i use rifle or pistol shield.

even id the elixir gun was fixed it still was a Nerf. the only real thing you get with elixir gun is the weakness which only really helps against bosses.

over all im giving people information. im letting people know might is king and if can stack it you win. cond damage is increase by 100% and power by about 50%.
If you want damage get might stacks.

Casia.4281:

Bouncing EG1.
And buff fumigate. EG3 is actually awful.

Make it happen!

Have #1 be an AOE like #1 is for pistols. It doesn’t have to be huge, but if it AOE to hit close mobs, especially when used to auto attack after launching #2 (exilir F) they’d all be slow and it would provide extra “oomph” to help balance it’s close range ability.

EG #3 is good actually, but the range needs to be 750 or 900. The EG is a ranged support, with #4 an “oh kitten” option when the enemy gets through the CC/support options it offers. As such, make #1 an AOE (or fast bounce like the axe for rangers, not the slowass #2 “miss most of the time” for EG now) and boost range to 750-900 for #3 and the EG would be nice all around I think.

The new elixir build and how it handles.

Just some insight into what it’s like now before ever getting to attack something. It’s like playing FFXIV, turn based combat doesn’t help in an action based combat mmo.

RaynStargaze.6510:

after the 15% dmg nerf in the last patch + the 30% in this one – grenades were efficiently nerfed for 45%!!!! of their initial dmg

SentinelArk.5109:

Skill No. | Pre Patch PvP
1 – 0.450
2 – 0.450
3 – 0.000
4 – 0.450
5 – 0.000

Skill No. | Pre Patch PvE
1 – 0.500
2 – 0.550
3 – 0.000
4 – 0.500
5 – 0.000

Skill No. | Post Patch PvE & PvP
1 – 0.330
2 – 0.550
3 – 0.100
4 – 0.500
5 – 0.200

Assuming the above values are correct Grenade Kit #1 has been nerfed by 34%, not 45% as you claim, and the damage nerf to all other Grenade Kit skills has been reverted.

Morale of the story: we want to get advantage of might? We have to find an easy way to gather them. Best is gathering them when we are doing something we however would be doing.

So I think we should scrap FlameThrower + Juggernaut.

Really! FT is not a reliable weapon, we have to get close to damage enemies. Only way to counter this problem would be to get the stacks by juggling with it.

Now we have to learn something: complicated things don’t work in a fight, when a thief is trying to mess your intestines up, a warrior to turn your limbs int jelly and a mesmer to make your brain melt out of your ears.

That’s also the reason why once in a while people come up with elixir, double-pistol builds, saying they are awesome. Well, they are much more limited than any other engineer build. But they are solid. You can always handle them, because they are simple. So you can concentrate moving, strafing and so on. Much harder with kit-swapping builds.

Same stuff for HGH: To get full use of it, I have to use all of my elixirs at once. So… I can’t use them when I could need them.

I think it’s better to get 15 stacks of might than 25, if you can keep playing normally without worrying they are stacked.

This in sPvP. Don’t know about PvE, but if you can sit one point, only minding about your might stack and pressing one button…. it’s another pair of sleeves.

Morale of the story: keep it as simple as you can. Engineer is already far more complicated than most professions.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-VRw;2cP-9-i6VQFx0;9;4TJ-9924956;20;05;0SJ;4jwmAjwmA2Vd

With build like this (S/TPVP) you are able to do your fights normally with out thinking of how to stack might. You will be getting 9-12 stacks most of the time, more with support from ele/guard.

Feel free to change Firearms VII to w/e you like more as well as the runes. Might duration runes tho might be good only for PVE/WWW.

I don’t know if this still works, but just equipping medkit counts as a healing skill. So you can do that every 10 seconds. And you don’t have to think about it: you’ll be already changing it every 10 seconds to get bandages. And each time you change it, you gain 6 stacks of might. And you can do it in a bunker build!
Good, ain’t it?

Please post a video of you doing more DPS than this warrior.

datbabykilla.4307:

Please post a video of you doing more DPS than this warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

Spvp. hes criting for 900 vs a guardian at 4:55 with rifle 1.

Pve/wvw.
Farm up 25 stacks of bloodlust with an alt rifle, swap to a sigil of battle rifle for killing.
food, oils.
0/30/0/10/30
enjoy.

rifle, TK, rifle turret. elixir S Massive burst, lost of escape tools.

Casia.4281:

datbabykilla.4307:

Please post a video of you doing more DPS than this warrior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTzyn6CGHw

Spvp. hes criting for 900 vs a guardian at 4:55 with rifle 1.

Pve/wvw.
Farm up 25 stacks of bloodlust with an alt rifle, swap to a sigil of battle rifle for killing.
food, oils.
0/30/0/10/30
enjoy.

rifle, TK, rifle turret. elixir S Massive burst, lost of escape tools.

calm down Almighty Engineroo god

Casia.4281:

Spvp. hes criting for 900 vs a guardian at 4:55 with rifle 1.

Pve/wvw.
Farm up 25 stacks of bloodlust with an alt rifle, swap to a sigil of battle rifle for killing.
food, oils.
0/30/0/10/30
enjoy.

rifle, TK, rifle turret. elixir S Massive burst, lost of escape tools.

I’ve used this build a lot, it doesn’t come close to this type of damage. Believe me I love my Engineer, I’m just in favor of better balance between the classes. Anyway, my challenge still stands.

is there anything that compares withOUT using the grenade kit? I’m too damn young to be getting arthritis from pressing the 1 key twice a second.