Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

“Grenade” skill now does 30% less damage to balance against using sigils."

My opinion:
1) A sigil is not worth 30% more damage

Example: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Air
30% Chance on Critical for a 1.1 damage coefficient attack on a 5 second cooldown is not equal to 30% of the damage of grenades.

2) It forces us to run a damage dealing sigil instead of a utility sigil.

Yeah I would keep my damage and forget a small amount from a sigil. Sad faces

Arenanet, not every sigil is a offensive one. You effectively killed grenades now.

Now even less reason to play my engi over my guard or warrior in dungeons. Cool!

The best one is +5% damage… I understand they must low the base damage, but 30% is too much :S

Worse than the Thief Pistol Whip nerf people don’t exactly look for engineer when PUG either. Grenades made us useful.

Although the explosion from blinding grenade may make up some of it don’t know will have to see when it patches.

30%? What the heck were they thinking? I’m about done with this profession. Maybe the game. Meh. I’m really disappointed right now.

EVERY OTHER CLASS BUFFED AND BUG FIXED?

BETTER NERF ENGINEER!

This is seriously an outrage. Why has engineer been nerfed so much, every single patch?

Thank goodness. Now I don’t feel like I have to use a kit I don’t particularly like.

A. grenades are crazy op. Their ratios are out of control compared to everything else. they needed a nerf. or grenadier and steel packed did.
B. adding damage to blind and poison is nice buff.
“pvp and pve” are the same, could be a buff or nerf. well see.
30% of pve or pvps values?

Grenades without grenadier is now unplayable probably..

Would have it been possible to have grenadier be +1 grenade, grenades do 30% less damage each?

30% seems like a little too much, no doubt many grenade engies will get mad over it :/ rest of patch for us seems okay though

Well good thing I got a warrior. Guess its time to shelf my engineer…

Grizor.6543:

Now even less reason to play my engi over my guard or warrior in dungeons. Cool!

Pretty much same boat.

Rather play any of my other characters now.

The sigil explanation is a rather transparent lie; otherwise grenades wouldn’t be the only kit being nerfed.

Still, I agree with this change. Considering the sigil bonuses, this should result in an effective 15-20% nerf to grenade damage, which seems perfectly resonable. Grenades were way out of line compared to the other weapons and kits.

It was a nerf, the balance part was just to soften the bad news… At least, the other weapon kits got a buff.

Yep my warrior made it to 80 and now I can retire the engineer.

Ploppy.2917:

Grenades were way out of line compared to the other weapons and kits.

People don’t use grenades because they’re uber powerful, they use grenades because all our other weapons are weak as hell compared to other professions.

Vadon.1496:

Well good thing I got a warrior. Guess its time to shelf my engineer…

Amen.

I’m a little confused about why they chose 30%. i really don’t think any combination of sigils will net me 20% damage increase, reliably, let alone 30%.

Welp, time to re-roll. How are elementalists?

Casia.4281:

A. grenades are crazy op. Their ratios are out of control compared to everything else. they needed a nerf. or grenadier and steel packed did.
B. adding damage to blind and poison is nice buff.
“pvp and pve” are the same, could be a buff or nerf. well see.
30% of pve or pvps values?

Grenades without grenadier is now unplayable probably..

Would have it been possible to have grenadier be +1 grenade, grenades do 30% less damage each?

Grenades are also one of the more frustrating and button mashy builds to play, hitting moving targets is near impossible with them. They could have at least given us a proper auto attack for this kit along with the gigantic nerf.

Quick question does each gernade have a chance to trigger an effect? Still kind of ridiculous considering a mobile target is more difficult to land hits with nades

Shrapnel is good now too btw. All the t1 explosive traits were garbage.
Getting nice boost there to compensate.

Also, double might from hgh.

RoRo.8270:

Quick question does each gernade have a chance to trigger an effect?

yes.

3 procs every throw. 8 procs on grenade barrage.

When they make the kits to scale with us, who is ready for another 50% nerf?

So in the end, it is 1 step forward and 6 jumps back.

Ploppy.2917:

The sigil explanation is a rather transparent lie; otherwise grenades wouldn’t be the only kit being nerfed.

Theres also a chance they used this opportunity to nerf grenades, while they had an excuse. That seems to make sense considering the 30% drop. A sigil should be worth only like 15% at most.

I find it to be hysterical that they can turn the knobs on Grenades for consecutive weeks, but not touch the AWFUL Flamethrower kit a single time…

Good thing I saved all my CoF tokens, I can deck my Guardian out completely with 0 effort.

amiable.4823:

Welp, time to re-roll. How are elementalists?

Just roll a warrior, they never get nerfed. Ele are fine.

Time to retire my engi. If I knew this was going to happen I would have put my ascended back piece on the ele or warrior along with the rings that I got.

Faction.4013:

I find it to be hysterical that they can turn the knobs on Grenades for consecutive weeks, but not touch the AWFUL Flamethrower kit a single time…

They dont have to have now it is probably balanced with grenades.

Using sigils as an excuse for a 30% nerf, sigils are not worth a 30% damage change.

Also, grenades are the easiest attack in the game to counter, all you have to do is not stand in place like an idiot.

Yet Hundred Blades, despite being able to one shot people, is considered balanced because you can get out of it…. if you have a stun break….. off cooldown.

With grenades I felt competitive in groups. On fights where the target wasn’t crazy mobile they were fantastic!

Now I think I’m just going to use a flamethrower with a sigil of earth. Hurts my finger less, and will probably deal equivalently lame damage to new grenades. Screw the effort, I’m going auto-attack!

>_>;

RoRo.8270:

Quick question does each gernade have a chance to trigger an effect?

Yes, but all sigils now have built in cooldowns, so you can only trigger them once every 2/5 seconds regardless.

Totally saw this coming!
You guys who are griping over this just don’t get it.

Competitively speaking, Grenades overshadow every single kit. A similar nerf would have happened, with or without the sigils-change.

Also: Don’t any of you dare ignore the fact that Flash grenades and poison grenades now do damage when they explode. That is a legitimate buff in its own right.

AND DON’T FORGET.

ANet is working on making all kits scale with weapon damage

So none of you have the right to complain. Grab some patience and munch on it.

Sigils are just an excuse as to why ArenaNet nerfed Grenades.

They gave us more sigils to increase build diversity. ArenaNet sees all engineers only relying on Grenades, so they nerfed it to force us into other builds.

I’m not saying this is good at all, I’m just saying.

Whoa, 30%? Like.. three-zero?

That probably translates to a 15-20% nerf, taking into account what was added in the patch. That’s unfortunate. Grenades were better than any kit we had for DPS, but they weren’t better than other professions. This change likely brings them in line with other Engineer kits, which unfortunately are sub-par compared to other classes.

I though ANet wasn’t making “big changes” all in one patch? What happened to smaller changes over time?

-Travail.

LegoTechnic.5910:

With grenades I felt competitive in groups. On fights where the target wasn’t crazy mobile they were fantastic!

Now I think I’m just going to use a flamethrower with a sigil of earth. Hurts my finger less, and will probably deal equivalently lame damage to new grenades. Screw the effort, I’m going auto-attack!

>_>;

Exactly…

What this also tells me is that the FT may not be getting touched anytime soon. Because if they’ll nerf Grenades to the level that FT is currently, why would they buff the FT for any reason?

I think that its just the 1 attack on grenades, not all grenade attacks. Its a little bit compensated by a couple of the other attacks now dealing damage, we will have to see how much overall DPS suffers.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Totally saw this coming!
You guys who are griping over this just don’t get it.

Competitively speaking, Grenades overshadow every single kit. A similar nerf would have happened, with or without the sigils-change.

Also: Don’t any of you dare ignore the fact that Flash grenades and poison grenades now do damage when they explode. That is a legitimate buff in its own right.

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Casia.4281:

A. grenades are crazy op. Their ratios are out of control compared to everything else. they needed a nerf. or grenadier and steel packed did.
B. adding damage to blind and poison is nice buff.
“pvp and pve” are the same, could be a buff or nerf. well see.
30% of pve or pvps values?

Grenades without grenadier is now unplayable probably..

OP is being able to outplay everyone else in any situation without them being able to counter it. (like the rendering issue does for medicore+ thieves)
Its not a skill that happens to do alot of damage if you manage to land hits with it.

Grenades are only OP when you are throwing them at target dummies.
Grenade kit is a carpal tunnel inducing key smashing fest that does little more than clear out an area/wall.
Math only matters when you are guaranteed every hit will land.
If you get killed by Grenades 90% of the time its because you were just standing there or you would of just as easily been killed with any other skill.

This nerf also just seems to prove that all of our other kits were SO weak before that they did not also require a nerf.
So Sigils affecting all the other kits only brings them up to par from there obvious former weakness.

it seems like from the wording only our number 1 skill is getting a 30% nerf and not shrapnel, blinding, freeze, and poison grenades

so maybe it will be ok

Gilgamesh.2561:

Sigils are just an excuse as to why ArenaNet nerfed Grenades.

They gave us more sigils to increase build diversity. ArenaNet sees all engineers only relying on Grenades, so they nerfed it to force us into other builds.

I’m not saying this is good at all, I’m just saying.

But every other kit is completely terrible, with the possible exception of toolkit bunker builds, this is non-sensical. Engineers are already as rare as hens teeth, no one wants to play them. I have gotten kicked from dungeon runs solely because I am an engineer.

The grenade kit was literally the one good thing about the class, and it was really only usefuil for sieges and large scale wvw… To add insult to injury, d/d elementalists, thieves and mesmers got buffed! This is madness.

This is sad anyhow, the grenades are already hard to hit anything that’s moving .
And as a rifle engineer I’m forced to use 2 pistols justto get 2 sigils with the kits

Travail.7390:

Whoa, 30%? Like.. three-zero?

That probably translates to a 15-20% nerf, taking into account what was added in the patch. That’s unfortunate. Grenades were better than any kit we had for DPS, but they weren’t better than other professions. This change likely brings them in line with other Engineer kits, which unfortunately are sub-par compared to other classes.

I though ANet wasn’t making “big changes” all in one patch? What happened to smaller changes over time?

-Travail.

haha yeah. should point out.
Last time they said 10% to g1, 15% to g2, and 10% to barrage.
it was 10%, 18% and 0 to barrage.

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

Casia.4281:

A. grenades are crazy op. Their ratios are out of control compared to everything else. they needed a nerf. or grenadier and steel packed did.
B. adding damage to blind and poison is nice buff.
“pvp and pve” are the same, could be a buff or nerf. well see.
30% of pve or pvps values?

Grenades without grenadier is now unplayable probably..

Would have it been possible to have grenadier be +1 grenade, grenades do 30% less damage each?

I find your particular brand of imperturbable objectivity to be a refreshing balm for the hyperbolic wailing that constantly threatens to overrun this forum.

Well, if you ever wanted to try a support-build engineer, now is your chance.

Maybe I’ll hold off on that rifle legendary after all.

You know this is the kit’s #1 skill, and not the whole kit right? Reading comprehension helps.

DreamOfACure.4382:

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

No, this would be valid had they decreased the damage after making stats effects kits, not well before such a change occurred. Doing it the way you’re insinuating is downright silly.

DreamOfACure.4382:

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

Are you from the future? so we can know the date?