Is it just me, or does the sigil of accuracy (+5% critical chance) still does not work with kits?
it doesn’t list at all, not even when equipping pistol or rifle.
So I don’ know if it works at all, all I know it’s never listed on your character page.
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
It shows a 5% increase in critical rate chance oh my hero page [H] when i am equipping my weapon, but that disappears when i equip my kit (decreases by 5%)
It shows a 5% increase in critical rate chance oh my hero page [H] when i am equipping my weapon, but that disappears when i equip my kit (decreases by 5%)
I can confirm this. I search around a bit and found this old developer post regarding this particular sigil.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
Have you seen the “rifle is poor damage”posts prior to patch? I was just sitting there scratching my head.
Engi rifle auto attack is like the #2 highest dps ability after grenades in the game..
With traits, arrows can pierce. Maybe you should try lvling a Ranger. Mr. Bad.
Ok, so you spend a trait on something I get for free. Grats Mr. Bad.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
I’m pretty sure the Engi Rifle shoots slower than the Ranger’s short bow, though. Against single targets, or targets who are spread out, the Ranger should win out, I think. Plus, the Ranger applies automatic bleeds when beside or behind their target with their short bow #1.
You also need to factor in pet damage on top of whatever the Ranger is dealing.
-Travail.
And you need to factor in the huge static discharge burst from a proper rifle build. The initial post compared autoattack to autoattack. Apples to apples. Throwing in other abillites is comparing apples to oranges. For a curve ball you could also throw in the extra control rifle has innately. More oranges, yay.
My point was, and still stands, that Rifle 1 has always been a top notch attack, if built for it. This doesn’t excuse the gutting of grenade builds, which were not overpowered in any way, and converting direct damage to condition damage does precisely that — guts grenades.
Its not the end of the engineer class as some have pointed out, but it is inexcusable and unnecessary to gut a damage build that didn’t even come close to the damage of other classes.
I’d swear my rifle has been doing significantly less damage since the patch, but maybe I’ve just been fighting things with higher defense. I’m still leveling, and moving through Dredgehaunt. Still, everything feels more difficult now, from last week.
why dont we just revamp grenades altogether, 1 thrown grenade with aoe, Granadier boosts damage and cooldown and have number 1 auto attack. easy balance just make it mock fireball with a different animation, heck give it the same animation
I think the principle behind not giving grenade 1 an autoattack is that since you are not aiming it directly at an enemy then the game doesnt know whether or not you intend to attack that enemy, or WHICH enemy you intend to attack. The targeting mechanic always works differently from grenades anyways because you must always aim them; there is no auto-aim (nor should there be due to the fact that part of skilled grenade usage is ‘leading’ your target). There are multiple frustrating situations that could arise should an auto-attack be implemented.
I like the fact that grenades don’t have an auto attack and that they have to be manually targeted. I always assumed that this was one of the reasons why they did decent damage.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
I like the fact that grenades don’t have an auto attack and that they have to be manually targeted. I always assumed that this was one of the reasons why they did decent damage.
Yeah but now not so much, they do the same amount of damage as one shot from a mages fireball, diff is ours is a skillshot and has three small attacks, you would think a skill shot would do more damage then something that has an auto attack but because of sigils we have a better chance of constantly activating whatever sigil we have yet it really doesnt matter if you cant hit the thing your aiming at
anynone try aiming at a mesmer in pvp with grenades dodge invis blink o yea and the best juke of all, serpitine
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
Have you seen the “rifle is poor damage”posts prior to patch? I was just sitting there scratching my head.
Engi rifle auto attack is like the #2 highest dps ability after grenades in the game..
With traits, arrows can pierce. Maybe you should try lvling a Ranger. Mr. Bad.
Ok, so you spend a trait on something I get for free. Grats Mr. Bad.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
I’m pretty sure the Engi Rifle shoots slower than the Ranger’s short bow, though. Against single targets, or targets who are spread out, the Ranger should win out, I think. Plus, the Ranger applies automatic bleeds when beside or behind their target with their short bow #1.
You also need to factor in pet damage on top of whatever the Ranger is dealing.
-Travail.
And you need to factor in the huge static discharge burst from a proper rifle build. The initial post compared autoattack to autoattack. Apples to apples. Throwing in other abillites is comparing apples to oranges. For a curve ball you could also throw in the extra control rifle has innately. More oranges, yay.
My point was, and still stands, that Rifle 1 has always been a top notch attack, if built for it. This doesn’t excuse the gutting of grenade builds, which were not overpowered in any way, and converting direct damage to condition damage does precisely that — guts grenades.
Its not the end of the engineer class as some have pointed out, but it is inexcusable and unnecessary to gut a damage build that didn’t even come close to the damage of other classes.
Nothing about me being bad because I have to work around how my class was made pal. You’re the baddie for insinuating that rangers don’t have the capability without doing research.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
Have you seen the “rifle is poor damage”posts prior to patch? I was just sitting there scratching my head.
Engi rifle auto attack is like the #2 highest dps ability after grenades in the game..
With traits, arrows can pierce. Maybe you should try lvling a Ranger. Mr. Bad.
Ok, so you spend a trait on something I get for free. Grats Mr. Bad.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
I’m pretty sure the Engi Rifle shoots slower than the Ranger’s short bow, though. Against single targets, or targets who are spread out, the Ranger should win out, I think. Plus, the Ranger applies automatic bleeds when beside or behind their target with their short bow #1.
You also need to factor in pet damage on top of whatever the Ranger is dealing.
-Travail.
And you need to factor in the huge static discharge burst from a proper rifle build. The initial post compared autoattack to autoattack. Apples to apples. Throwing in other abillites is comparing apples to oranges. For a curve ball you could also throw in the extra control rifle has innately. More oranges, yay.
My point was, and still stands, that Rifle 1 has always been a top notch attack, if built for it. This doesn’t excuse the gutting of grenade builds, which were not overpowered in any way, and converting direct damage to condition damage does precisely that — guts grenades.
Its not the end of the engineer class as some have pointed out, but it is inexcusable and unnecessary to gut a damage build that didn’t even come close to the damage of other classes.
The auto-attack of the Ranger suffers from reduced damage specifically in order to incorporate pet damage. The Ranger, in essence, has 2 auto-attacks; his own, and his pet’s. Those two together are balanced to roughly equal the auto-attack of other classes. Without factoring in the pet, of course you’ll be able to say that you are superior to the Ranger, in almost every way in fact.
No, this would be valid had they decreased the damage after making stats effects kits, not well before such a change occurred. Doing it the way you’re insinuating is downright silly.
WRONG.
That’s not how real game-balance works for regular-update MMOs. I know because I play LoL, and they do this ALL THE TIME. And a few LoL designers worked very closely with ANet in the development of GW2.
Developers will put out what’s ready to be shipped.
This time, it was sigils and they needed to get the nerf out first. The stats come later.
That’s the way reality has unfolded, I’m sorry if you don’t like it.
No it’s not. They should have manned up. Said that it is ready and told us to wait while they get weapons stats to work as well. Having us suffer because they couldn’t fix this crap in BETA and it’s already been MONTHS is appalling. Doesn’t matter if it’s ready to be shipped; it’s sloppy and not only that their math is wrong. It’s a 35% nerf not 30%. We shouldn’t have to suffer 1 or more months because of this not when it hurts the player base this badly; especially hurting us in groups.
Lets take the most responded to engineer post and continue this . Give me a dang auto cast since you nerfed me into the ground. at least ill prevent my fingers from breaking
A completely needed damage reduction? Maybe in sPvP or PvE, but not in WvW.
My grenades now do around 1000 damage normal / 1900 critical. The Elementalist I started after the Dec 14th update does 2000 damage normal / 5000 critical.
The only thing overpowered about grenades is that they are so small you can’t see them coming, unlike fireball which is hard to miss.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
A completely needed damage reduction? Maybe in sPvP or PvE, but not in WvW.
My grenades now do around 1000 damage normal / 1900 critical. The Elementalist I started after the Dec 14th update does 2000 damage normal / 5000 critical.
The only thing overpowered about grenades is that they are so small you can’t see them coming, unlike fireball which is hard to miss.
are we comparing apples to oranges or what exactly? you are only seeing 1900 crits? 1 grenade can crit for 800-900 damage, = 2400-2700 crits when all 3 hit. thats with only +50% crit damage, so we could easily push that much higher.
anyway, as for the elementalist: what skill are you seeing 5k crits with? cause i wont buy for a second that you are seeing 5k’s with fireball. that kind of damage is limited to only a handfull of abilities, and only when full glass:
-meteor
-lightning surge
-ice spike
-arcane blast / wave
-dragons tooth
-phoenix
-fire grab
-blazing speed
-churning earth
not a single one of those are direct comparisons to spammable 1500 range grenades, and all but the arcane skills and lightning surge have a reasonable chance to miss. not that it really matters, since there are so many other factors (that they can be strung together with lightning strike on attunement swap for exceedingly brutal burst).
anyway. engi’s have problems. grenade damage isnt one of them.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
A completely needed damage reduction? Maybe in sPvP or PvE, but not in WvW.
My grenades now do around 1000 damage normal / 1900 critical. The Elementalist I started after the Dec 14th update does 2000 damage normal / 5000 critical.
The only thing overpowered about grenades is that they are so small you can’t see them coming, unlike fireball which is hard to miss.
are we comparing apples to oranges or what exactly? you are only seeing 1900 crits? 1 grenade can crit for 800-900 damage, = 2400-2700 crits when all 3 hit. thats with only +50% crit damage, so we could easily push that much higher.
anyway, as for the elementalist: what skill are you seeing 5k crits with? cause i wont buy for a second that you are seeing 5k’s with fireball. that kind of damage is limited to only a handfull of abilities, and only when full glass:
-meteor
-lightning surge
-ice spike
-arcane blast / wave
-dragons tooth
-phoenix
-fire grab
-blazing speed
-churning earth
not a single one of those are direct comparisons to spammable 1500 range grenades, and all but the arcane skills and lightning surge have a reasonable chance to miss. not that it really matters, since there are so many other factors (that they can be strung together with lightning strike on attunement swap for exceedingly brutal burst).
anyway. engi’s have problems. grenade damage isnt one of them.
The odds of all 3 hitting, let alone critting is extremely low in everything outside of PvE.
No, it needed a re-design, there shouldn’t be a kit that does superior damage at every possible range to anything else we have.
If they nerfed or redesigned grenades to give the class more variety in terms of damage dealing specs I would be ecstatic, but as it stands all they did was nerf it into the ground and call it a day.
Was a grenade change needed? Absolutely. Was this it? God no this is quite possibly the most braindead kneejerk reaction I have seen from a developer in regard to balance in a very long time.
and I love how the Dev’s or Mods or w/e don’t come around and say anything about the nerf.. they just brush it under the rug and ignore that it’s there.
A completely needed damage reduction? Maybe in sPvP or PvE, but not in WvW.
My grenades now do around 1000 damage normal / 1900 critical. The Elementalist I started after the Dec 14th update does 2000 damage normal / 5000 critical.
The only thing overpowered about grenades is that they are so small you can’t see them coming, unlike fireball which is hard to miss.
are we comparing apples to oranges or what exactly? you are only seeing 1900 crits? 1 grenade can crit for 800-900 damage, = 2400-2700 crits when all 3 hit. thats with only +50% crit damage, so we could easily push that much higher.
anyway, as for the elementalist: what skill are you seeing 5k crits with? cause i wont buy for a second that you are seeing 5k’s with fireball. that kind of damage is limited to only a handfull of abilities, and only when full glass:
-meteor
-lightning surge
-ice spike
-arcane blast / wave
-dragons tooth
-phoenix
-fire grab
-blazing speed
-churning earth
not a single one of those are direct comparisons to spammable 1500 range grenades, and all but the arcane skills and lightning surge have a reasonable chance to miss. not that it really matters, since there are so many other factors (that they can be strung together with lightning strike on attunement swap for exceedingly brutal burst).
anyway. engi’s have problems. grenade damage isnt one of them.
Uhhh I am wearing full zerkers + all zerker trinkets + 30 in explosives + 30 in tool and i am only doing around 1.1 – 1.2k dmg per grenade WITH no.2 and no.4 skills only. The auto only crits for around 900 and im pretty sure other classes can do a lot more damage with full zerkers / glass cannon. All the grenades actually have to hit as well to get full damage.
Uhhh I am wearing full zerkers + all zerker trinkets + 30 in explosives + 30 in tool and i am only doing around 1.1 – 1.2k dmg per grenade WITH no.2 and no.4 skills only. The auto only crits for around 900 and im pretty sure other classes can do a lot more damage with full zerkers / glass cannon. All the grenades actually have to hit as well to get full damage.
where are we going with this. 900 × 3 grenades is 2.7k. are 2.7k auto attack crits bad? are 3.6k shrapnel grenades on a 5 second cd bad? are 7k grenade barrages bad? how bout easy 15k bursts when we dump our toolbelt on someone with some static discharge?
of course other classes can do more damage. grenades are a 1500 range weapon. grenade auto attack is on par with fireball and longbow.
engi’s have some problems, but grenade damage isnt bad. i think arguing that grenades have trouble hitting their target to do their intended damage is much stronger than trying to argue the damage itself is bad.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
But it IS medicore at best. AND you need to go full-DPS to get such numbers. It’s not like we can grab pow\vit\toughness and deal same damage. AND we’re sacrifising an utility slot for it. AND it’s all based on a single build (versatile mah kitten). AND you don’t have an autoattack.
I wish they would have went with a different type of fix then just fudging the numbers around and calling it good.
They could have made it so Grenades dont explode on impact but after a few seconds, so throwing them at Max Range would remain the same but it would get harder to hit ppl the closer they are to you because the grenades would bounce before exploding.
This would make Grenades more of a long range option but weaker at shorter ranges, making our other short-medium range kits more viable.
Plus spamming a bunch of bouncy bombs would be way more fun.
Uhhh I am wearing full zerkers + all zerker trinkets + 30 in explosives + 30 in tool and i am only doing around 1.1 – 1.2k dmg per grenade WITH no.2 and no.4 skills only. The auto only crits for around 900 and im pretty sure other classes can do a lot more damage with full zerkers / glass cannon. All the grenades actually have to hit as well to get full damage.
where are we going with this. 900 × 3 grenades is 2.7k. are 2.7k auto attack crits bad? are 3.6k shrapnel grenades on a 5 second cd bad? are 7k grenade barrages bad? how bout easy 15k bursts when we dump our toolbelt on someone with some static discharge?
of course other classes can do more damage. grenades are a 1500 range weapon. grenade auto attack is on par with fireball and longbow.
engi’s have some problems, but grenade damage isnt bad. i think arguing that grenades have trouble hitting their target to do their intended damage is much stronger than trying to argue the damage itself is bad.
Grenade damage isn’t bad.
Compared to the rest of our options, this doesn’t say much though.
Grenade is a 1500 range weapon and it does almost 0 damage at that range. Its effective range against players is about the same as blunderbuss. PvE its a bit different but don’t pull the 1500 range argument it makes you sound rather stupid.
are we comparing apples to oranges or what exactly? you are only seeing 1900 crits? 1 grenade can crit for 800-900 damage, = 2400-2700 crits when all 3 hit. thats with only +50% crit damage, so we could easily push that much higher.
Without a damage meter or some sort of log that can be parsed there isn’t much point in arguing about numbers. My observations are from WvW, but anyone can see for themselves with level 1 characters in the Mists.
Also… lets get the math right:
A 50% critical hit chance means that there is a 12.5% chance that all three grenades will crit (0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.125). Any argument that grenade damage is fine because all three grenades are going to crit is silly.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
are we comparing apples to oranges or what exactly? you are only seeing 1900 crits? 1 grenade can crit for 800-900 damage, = 2400-2700 crits when all 3 hit. thats with only +50% crit damage, so we could easily push that much higher.
Without a damage meter or some sort of log that can be parsed there isn’t much point in arguing about numbers. My observations are from WvW, but anyone can see for themselves with level 1 characters in the Mists.
Also… lets get the math right:
A 50% critical hit chance means that there is a 12.5% chance that all three grenades will crit (0.5 * 0.5 * 0.5 = 0.125). Any argument that grenade damage is fine because all three grenades are going to crit is silly.
that doesnt make the damage any less comparable to fireball. we also have a 87% chance for at least one grenade to crit. in other words, avg dmg is still the same.
arguments should focus on the unreliability of grenades to hit, not the damage they do.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
that doesnt make the damage any less comparable to fireball. we also have a 87% chance for at least one grenade to crit. in other words, avg dmg is still the same.
arguments should focus on the unreliability of grenades to hit, not the damage they do.
Well if you think that grenades should auto-hit their target that’s fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I’ll agree to disagree. Different playstyles are going to foster different perspectives on how the classes should work.
With that being said there is no doubt that there is an overwhelming consensus that the nerf to grenade damage was uncalled for. The explanation given makes no sense since a 30% reduction in damage cannot be made up by a sigil. Many Engineers believed that the tradeoff of having a time-delayed manually targeted AOE was in exchange for having slightly higher base damage. The idea being that you were going to miss a lot unless you were standing right on top of the target.
Now if that’s not what an Engineer is supposed to be then the devs should explain that better. If grenade damage was nerfed because it was overpowered then the devs should explain that too.
Bottom line, a lot of people are shelving their engineers in favor of other classes because the damage just isn’t there anymore.
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
I’d swear my rifle has been doing significantly less damage since the patch, but maybe I’ve just been fighting things with higher defense. I’m still leveling, and moving through Dredgehaunt. Still, everything feels more difficult now, from last week.
I feel the same way. I thought I was imagining it.
Dear Enginners. I have read many information about your dissapoitment with granades nerf and i have watched some videos in which granades were used. Please tell, what wrong on -30% dmg if you can hit for 10K dmg and my elementalist can do maximum dmg about 5K. I think im average skilled player, but i cannot match dmg you can reach with them . I dont care about dps meter just want to know why are you so angry with that. We want to play this great game and enjoy fun. It doesn matter who can deal higher dps but first compare with other profession and they can speak. Now its ball in your camp, please tell me what so wrong about this nerf please.
Dear Enginners. I have read many information about your dissapoitment with granades nerf and i have watched some videos in which granades were used. Please tell, what wrong on -30% dmg if you can hit for 10K dmg and my elementalist can do maximum dmg about 5K. I think im average skilled player, but i cannot match dmg you can reach with them . I dont care about dps meter just want to know why are you so angry with that. We want to play this great game and enjoy fun. It doesn matter who can deal higher dps but first compare with other profession and they can speak. Now its ball in your camp, please tell me what so wrong about this nerf please.
You need to undestand that spamming grenades 1 and 2 is ALL of our supposedly high damage. While other professions has more skills to do damage with. Please tell us how much damage you can deal through all of your damage rotation.
Dear Enginners. I have read many information about your dissapoitment with granades nerf and i have watched some videos in which granades were used. Please tell, what wrong on -30% dmg if you can hit for 10K dmg and my elementalist can do maximum dmg about 5K. I think im average skilled player, but i cannot match dmg you can reach with them . I dont care about dps meter just want to know why are you so angry with that. We want to play this great game and enjoy fun. It doesn matter who can deal higher dps but first compare with other profession and they can speak. Now its ball in your camp, please tell me what so wrong about this nerf please.
10k from what? all 8 grenades of barrage criting at once?
“I feel like I’m getting trolled here. Good day sir.”
- John Smith, ArenaNet in-house economist
I have seen this on youtube . Im not sure about enginners spell mechanicsbut on this video you can see he hit 1 and 2 and it crit for 10k
Sir or madam player,
Almost any class can drop another player in 7-8 seconds at most in ideal conditions. In some cases much quicker mesmer and thief burst comes to mind. Now I think the video showed more then just grenade spam. I am guessing the video was shot was near melee combat as well. So I am also guessing the other player was hit by big old bomb(f1-f4) skill for bomb kit, the aoe grenade skill (grenade kit f1-f4), and well other normal grenade spam. So at least 3 attacks very quickly withen the time of 3 seconds.
If it was just grenade 1 and 2 skill that hit 10k, that other player was naked, up leveled and somehow had 20 stacks of vulnerability because 1 grenade spam could never do that, even before the -30%.
Speccing this was would make this engineer very squishie just like a GC thief but without the ability to escape.
Yes, this is only a snapshot, but to me it is a telling one. I took a level 33 Engineer into Queensdale to get events for dailies today. The character was in Strong L32 Greens, with a Strong Rifle. Traits are 10/5/8/0/0. Did an event versus level 11 bandits, and I was down-leveled to 11. Rifle was taking 7-8 auto-attacks to kill a bandit. It consistently took 13-15 uses of grenade 1 to take down a bandit. Maybe its better at higher levels, maybe it isn’t. However, the reduction is nasty at lower levels.
Yes, this is only a snapshot, but to me it is a telling one. I took a level 33 Engineer into Queensdale to get events for dailies today. The character was in Strong L32 Greens, with a Strong Rifle. Traits are 10/5/8/0/0. Did an event versus level 11 bandits, and I was down-leveled to 11. Rifle was taking 7-8 auto-attacks to kill a bandit. It consistently took 13-15 uses of grenade 1 to take down a bandit. Maybe its better at higher levels, maybe it isn’t. However, the reduction is nasty at lower levels.
the sad thing with grenades is that they seem to be balanced around having the Grandmaster Trait (30 in explosives) Grenadier.
Without that trait grenades aren’t worth equipping to be honest, except for practice on the targeting…
The result of this is that:
1. grenades are too weak by themselves
2. you need to spend 30 points in Explosives to have our only real ranged option, which limits any possibility of a ‘versatile’ build.
I have never seen a build using grenades without the grenadier trait, not ever.
We are not versatile as engineers, we are forced into mandatory traits for every kit, for using elixirs in a strong way, for even using our pistol we need 30 points in Firearms…
Wiggely, wobbely and other wombaty wabbity creatures…
