I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.
Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.
Cool story bro.
Every other prof can outperform your “versatility” if you werent aware.
Performing “optimally” as an engineer requires FAR more busywork than any other prof and should be compensated accordingly. Grenades takes more skill than then entire warrior prof combined, yet a 30% damage nerf to its red circle spam kinda makes it not very intimidating to other players, and have fun taking 40 grenades to kill a mob in cursed shore.
Not to turn this into a flamefest, which many people seem to wish to do, but if you think grenade spamming was/and/or is difficult — wow.
Have you played a glass cannon warrior? I’m guessing you haven’t, because it isn’t just BullRush+Frenzy+HundredBlades. Do that in PvE and have fun dying.
There is no comparison in the difference of how easy it is to ranged attack, compared to how much more intense and difficult it is to melee in this game.
Pistol/pistol engineer is actually a lot more interesting for me than grenade spam ever was. And being a heavy condition build and being able to stack 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning seems at the least competitive with other professions and certainly not very hard of a playstyle.
I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.
Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.
Cool story bro.
Every other prof can outperform your “versatility” if you werent aware.
Performing “optimally” as an engineer requires FAR more busywork than any other prof and should be compensated accordingly. Grenades takes more skill than then entire warrior prof combined, yet a 30% damage nerf to its red circle spam kinda makes it not very intimidating to other players, and have fun taking 40 grenades to kill a mob in cursed shore.
Not to turn this into a flamefest, which many people seem to wish to do, but if you think grenade spamming was/and/or is difficult — wow.
Have you played a glass cannon warrior? I’m guessing you haven’t, because it isn’t just BullRush+Frenzy+HundredBlades. Do that in PvE and have fun dying.
There is no comparison in the difference of how easy it is to ranged attack, compared to how much more intense and difficult it is to melee in this game.
Pistol/pistol engineer is actually a lot more interesting for me than grenade spam ever was. And being a heavy condition build and being able to stack 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning seems at the least competitive with other professions and certainly not very hard of a playstyle.
You are right, melee is much more intense, especially as glass cannon. But all melee have the option of going ranged during certain encounters. Sure it isnt always optimal, but then, they get a taste of what engies are always like.
Good news you wont have to worry about other engies p/p builds being redundant in the stacks on dragons and whatnot.
I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.
Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.
Cool story bro.
Every other prof can outperform your “versatility” if you werent aware.
Performing “optimally” as an engineer requires FAR more busywork than any other prof and should be compensated accordingly. Grenades takes more skill than then entire warrior prof combined, yet a 30% damage nerf to its red circle spam kinda makes it not very intimidating to other players, and have fun taking 40 grenades to kill a mob in cursed shore.
Not to turn this into a flamefest, which many people seem to wish to do, but if you think grenade spamming was/and/or is difficult — wow.
Have you played a glass cannon warrior? I’m guessing you haven’t, because it isn’t just BullRush+Frenzy+HundredBlades. Do that in PvE and have fun dying.
There is no comparison in the difference of how easy it is to ranged attack, compared to how much more intense and difficult it is to melee in this game.
Pistol/pistol engineer is actually a lot more interesting for me than grenade spam ever was. And being a heavy condition build and being able to stack 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning seems at the least competitive with other professions and certainly not very hard of a playstyle.
So basically your saying you can hit any kind of target with grenades? Someone who is running in circles, a straight line, zig zagging, no matter the movement you will land every grenade? If you can’t do any of the above consistently throughout every game and land EVERY SINGLE GRENADE, then you my friend are a troll!
arent two other grenades now doing damage in addition to applying conditions? + sigil buff makes it worth it. also grenade spam was lame and this may encourage people to try different things.
arent two other grenades now doing damage in addition to applying conditions? + sigil buff makes it worth it. also grenade spam was lame and this may encourage people to try different things.
Your right, newer engies will try different things.
Old engies will be gone.
Grenades was only popular cause it was the ONLY non bugged traitline/working kit.
If FT, Wrench, or Bombs even did a portion of the damage they should, and all worked properly without the rampant bugs in their associated traits, you might have seem more variety.
As it is, youll see more variety. If your in sub 10 fractals or overland eventing.
You wont really find many engies anywhere else.
So none of you have the right to complain. Grab some patience and munch on it.
No. I’m going to play another class. Why shouldn’t I? I’m told other classes have higher skill caps and I want to rise to that challenge.
I’ve been fairly patient. I’m just a bit sad because I spent a fair amount of time on my engineer; it was my first 80. Today I tried to take him into a fractal and was told no. “Your healing got nerfed, we need an ele.” It’s WoW all over again.
arent two other grenades now doing damage in addition to applying conditions? + sigil buff makes it worth it. also grenade spam was lame and this may encourage people to try different things.
So none of you have the right to complain. Grab some patience and munch on it.
No. I’m going to play another class. Why shouldn’t I? I’m told other classes have higher skill caps and I want to rise to that challenge.
I’ve been fairly patient. I’m just a bit sad because I spent a fair amount of time on my engineer; it was my first 80. Today I tried to take him into a fractal and was told no. “Your healing got nerfed, we need an ele.” It’s WoW all over again.
I didnt even need to login to know engies wont be getting any high end groups any time soon.
At first I didn’t understand why Anet thought it was necessary to nerf the grenade auto-attack so much but now that I’ve played around with a few different builds I think it’s not that bad. Basically the nerf has made one particular style of play not worth playing which is any build that mainly deals direct damage through grenades. The optimal way to deal damage with grenades is now through condition damage: With shrapnel, sigils of agony and superior corruption, you can land 10+ stacks of bleeding in a matter of seconds.
Sorry grenadiers with exotic berserks/knights armor, you’ll have to switch to rabid/carrion to be effective (but you can definitely still be effective).
At first I didn’t understand why Anet thought it was necessary to nerf the grenade auto-attack so much but now that I’ve played around with a few different builds I think it’s not that bad. Basically the nerf has made one particular style of play not worth playing which is any build that mainly deals direct damage through grenades. The optimal way to deal damage with grenades is now through condition damage: With shrapnel, sigils of agony and superior corruption, you can land 10+ stacks of bleeding in a matter of seconds.
Sorry grenadiers with exotic berserks/knights armor, you’ll have to switch to rabid/carrion to be effective (but you can definitely still be effective).
Effective in comparison to what? Launch necro? Awesome.
Honestly, it isn’t that bad in my opinion. The 1 skill made Wrench and Bombs obsolete because it dealt just way too much damage.
And it’s not like the other Grenade skills were nerfed. Quite the contrary.. Shrapnel Grenade is still the same, and the poison+blind grenades were buffed to deal damage.
With the introduction of Sigils and the buff to Shrapnel (trait) grenades are still one of the most powerful means in the game of bleed, poison, burn, AND vulnerability on a foe all at once!
The notion that Grenade Kit is suddenly bad is quite silly. Further considering the fact that Engineer is now able to stack MUCH more might on himself and I don’t think it was nerfed that much at all! Conditions will be so fun now!
My concern is mostly about the speed. It could be just me, but the grenade kit feels sluggish now. But maybe it’s just me? I don’t think it’ll make a difference in dungeons where foes are mostly stationary.
So none of you have the right to complain. Grab some patience and munch on it.
I’ve been fairly patient. I’m just a bit sad because I spent a fair amount of time on my engineer; it was my first 80. Today I tried to take him into a fractal and was told no. “Your healing got nerfed, we need an ele.” It’s WoW all over again.
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As much as all this sucks, if someone told you this you should better stop grouping baddies. No one invites anything just for “healing” which is kitten weak in the entire game anyway. Ive never done a fractal with an ele in group btw and if anyone needs a particular class for fractals besides mesmers he is bad anyway.
Good patch for tpvp/spvp. All of our relevant builds used in high end tpvp were untouched or buffed. Bunkers and static discharge builds were untouched. Might stacking condition builds got a significant buff.
PvWalling grenadier builds got nerfed, or rather…it does the same net damage as before, but you need to use condition damage instead of power. Oh well, boo hoo and all that.
Many of the posts in this thread make me realize how many people have no clue about the real mechanics behind grenades. I’ve never even done wvw and grenades was still my bread and butter
Also if you think that flash and poison grenade will recoup any more then a fraction of the damage lost from the 1 nerf then it just supports what I said before (and short fuse is STILL broken to my knowledge).
Many of the posts in this thread make me realize how many people have no clue about the real mechanics behind grenades. I’ve never even done wvw and grenades was still my bread and butter
Please elaborate on these “real” mechanics behind grenades unbeknownst to us mortals…I’m curious to what exactly you’re referring too.
Most people are mad about the damage nerf because Engineers suck. I have over 500+ hours into mine and its my main. I used to defend the profession all the time talking about how awesome they are. But then I started creating alts. It didn’t take long to realize that the other professions can do everything engineers can and then some, while dealing more damage with good survivability. Right now the Engineer is just a buggy class with no real role. It just didn’t make sense to nerf grenade damage, the one thing that made us decent.
It just seems like Engineers are just a gimmick.
Oh sweet a flamethrower! Then you use it and its bugged to kitten and does terrible damage.
What? Bombs? That’s awesome! Basically like being a melee class that has a timed delay on each swing of the sword. Plus one hundred blades has a bigger AOE radius.
Wrench? I’m not even sure what this does.
Elixir Gun? Wow that looks cool! Did that just hit for 200? Well I’ll try some of its other skills, hmmm 300, wtf?
So yes when you throw out words like “viable,” we want builds that are viable in terms of other professions. Not “viable” in the sense that I can kill a risen in 10 minutes after I hit every button possible. Another thing that has always irked me, is why does poison volley have such kittenty accuracy. Warrior Rifle 3 is a kitten laser beam, but PDV you gotta be in melee range if you want each one to hit.
So, beside from being uncomfortable to use ed easy to dodge, now our only long range kit got his damage nerfed (and it was useful only if you got a grandmaster trait).
I wonder if the devs are even playing this class.
Good patch for tpvp/spvp. All of our relevant builds used in high end tpvp …..
Sadly almost no one likes to play sPvP.
If you still havnt recognized it, WvW is the center of the game.
Ok in wvw grenades were only ever good for PvWalling. They were/are garbage in the field. In the field you were always better off running a boon stacking build or static discharge builds.
Even ignoring other builds (might stacking, static discharge, tankcat, etc.), grenades are still very viable. You can easily apply 10+ stacks of bleeding in seconds. With +condition damage and might stacking, that’s a good chunk of damage and should serve you well when next you PvWall.
Funny how I get asked what class I am when asking for a group and then when I say Engineer I never hear back from the person. That was bad before the massive nerf, before someone would say “hey if he is grenades he is spot on!” Now they just never respond and who would blame them? Good job in destroying an entire class of players. I will just play my guardian and ranger up until you blast them with your nerfbat. Talk about gutting a class OMG. I felt ashamed even being in a group I was entirely gimped. 100 200 and 400 crit! I can hit for 1000+ almost constantly with my ranger, 10000 with my guardian… Yet Engineeers with 500 600 crit needed nerfing? Stupid is as stupid does.
I have played MMOs and MuDs since the 1990’s and I have never seen a class gutted like Engineers were.
I’ve never had an issue getting groups as an engineer.
Sure did you play today? What does an engineer bring to the dungeon that a Guardian or Ranger and especially Warrior doesnt?
You have never been turned out in a PUG for being an engi? Seriously I doubt you play much then. Play your engi what 1 or 2 times a week and come on here and tell me you have never had a problem? Engineer is like the fat slow kid in dodge ball. The last one to be picked. how many times have you seen “LF1M Dungeon looking for Engineer” . Never
Good patch for tpvp/spvp. All of our relevant builds used in high end tpvp …..
Sadly almost no one likes to play sPvP.
If you still havnt recognized it, WvW is the center of the game.
Ok in wvw grenades were only ever good for PvWalling. They were/are garbage in the field. In the field you were always better off running a boon stacking build or static discharge builds.
Maybe you just sucked at using them?
I have no trouble to hit people with nades, sadly its pointless now.
I have played MMOs and MuDs since the 1990’s and I have never seen a class gutted like Engineers were.
Yup. I’m done. I figured this professions would see buffs. Nope, other way around. Too bad … this was my favorite class in WvW. I may just hang it up after what I experienced tonight. It’s not worth it.
Why would anyone look for an Engineer to fit out a PUG? They are not good at anything but DPS and guess what they nerfed DPS into the grave. I am fine I have an 80 guard, 80 thief and 80 ranger. Engineer will be at the bottom of the list now.
I have played MMOs and MuDs since the 1990’s and I have never seen a class gutted like Engineers were.
Yup. I’m done. I figured this professions would see buffs. Nope, other way around. Too bad … this was my favorite class in WvW. I may just hang it up after what I experienced tonight. It’s not worth it.
Man I crit for over 1000 with short bow auto attack constantly. It is insane what they did to engineer. I loved having to work and think being a grenade throwing lunatic judging distance and being able to put nades on the target made me work. Now when the nades are on the target and all the time in between my ranger could have shot them for 10000hp. Sad
Grenades where a special thing that people who didn’t want to hit #1 and have a few shots of scotch and afk played. It is a constant absolute concentration skill. You are always there. Hell with Ranger I can hit #1 and go post on Facebook, with Grenades it took absolute skill and time and understanding where a mob would be in 3 seconds.
Ok Grenades took skill, that simple. Now I can play my ranger and still have a conversation with my girl on Facebook msg’ing.
I’ve never had an issue getting groups as an engineer.
Sure did you play today? What does an engineer bring to the dungeon that a Guardian or Ranger and especially Warrior doesnt?
You have never been turned out in a PUG for being an engi? Seriously I doubt you play much then. Play your engi what 1 or 2 times a week and come on here and tell me you have never had a problem? Engineer is like the fat slow kid in dodge ball. The last one to be picked. how many times have you seen “LF1M Dungeon looking for Engineer” . Never
I’ve never seen anyone advertise specific class LFM’s for anything but the tankier builds (warr and guard). Reason is that GW2 has too many glass cannon types running dungeons, and some of the glass cannons types (like Ele and Eng/Grenadier) rely on tanks to keep the enemies in one place so they can deliver some of that delicious AoE. Apparently tanks are the new healers.
I’ve never had an issue getting groups as an engineer.
Sure did you play today? What does an engineer bring to the dungeon that a Guardian or Ranger and especially Warrior doesnt?
You have never been turned out in a PUG for being an engi? Seriously I doubt you play much then. Play your engi what 1 or 2 times a week and come on here and tell me you have never had a problem? Engineer is like the fat slow kid in dodge ball. The last one to be picked. how many times have you seen “LF1M Dungeon looking for Engineer” . Never
I’ve never seen anyone advertise specific class LFM’s for anything but the tankier builds (warr and guard). Reason is that GW2 has too many glass cannon types running dungeons, and some of the glass cannons types (like Ele and Eng/Grenadier) rely on tanks to keep the enemies in one place so they can deliver some of that delicious AoE. Apparently tanks are the new healers.
Then play more.
I am not a glass cannon Engineer either. Play more dude. How can you even be a glass cannon and play grenades? Without the toughness and vitialty? Guess you are a bad one or played with bad ones.
Good patch for tpvp/spvp. All of our relevant builds used in high end tpvp …..
Sadly almost no one likes to play sPvP.
If you still havnt recognized it, WvW is the center of the game.
Ok in wvw grenades were only ever good for PvWalling. They were/are garbage in the field. In the field you were always better off running a boon stacking build or static discharge builds.
Even ignoring other builds (might stacking, static discharge, tankcat, etc.), grenades are still very viable. You can easily apply 10+ stacks of bleeding in seconds. With +condition damage and might stacking, that’s a good chunk of damage and should serve you well when next you PvWall.
They were great in large scale fights, even in the open. All the other options are just bad when it comes to guild play.
Conditions are far too easily cleansed to be a reliable option.
I’ve never had an issue getting groups as an engineer.
Sure did you play today? What does an engineer bring to the dungeon that a Guardian or Ranger and especially Warrior doesnt?
You have never been turned out in a PUG for being an engi? Seriously I doubt you play much then. Play your engi what 1 or 2 times a week and come on here and tell me you have never had a problem? Engineer is like the fat slow kid in dodge ball. The last one to be picked. how many times have you seen “LF1M Dungeon looking for Engineer” . Never
I’ve been playing my engineer none stop for a while. It is the only class I play at the moment. I never said that people look for engineers. I don’t really need Engineers to be so good that people specifically seek them out. I said that I have never had any issues getting a group as an Engineer. If somebody says LF1M for whatever, I ask to join and they invite me. I have not been turned away once.
Why would you want an engineer with 200 200 230 400 crit when you could have a ranger with 1000 1000 1110 with auto attack short bow then actually pay attention and snare daze vine in place with damage break out the longbow 1200 1900 3000 4000 5000 damage? It is assinine to me.
I’ve never had an issue getting groups as an engineer.
Sure did you play today? What does an engineer bring to the dungeon that a Guardian or Ranger and especially Warrior doesnt?
You have never been turned out in a PUG for being an engi? Seriously I doubt you play much then. Play your engi what 1 or 2 times a week and come on here and tell me you have never had a problem? Engineer is like the fat slow kid in dodge ball. The last one to be picked. how many times have you seen “LF1M Dungeon looking for Engineer” . Never
I’ve been playing my engineer none stop for a while. It is the only class I play at the moment. I never said that people look for engineers. I don’t really need Engineers to be so good that people specifically seek them out. I said that I have never had any issues getting a group as an Engineer. If somebody says LF1M for whatever, I ask to join and they invite me. I have not been turned away once.
Maybe you are on a bad server or something?
Engineers are the redheaded step children. They get a group because no one else is playing. I don’t care I have 4 other classes that out damage out live out heal out utility than a engineer. Engineer is a filler now because you have no one else to fill the last 5 man.
Why would you want an engineer with 200 200 230 400 crit when you could have a ranger with 1000 1000 1110 with auto attack short bow then actually pay attention and snare daze vine in place with damage break out the longbow 1200 1900 3000 4000 5000 damage? It is assinine to me.
The point still remains that I don’t have an issue finding a group.
Why would you want an engineer with 200 200 230 400 crit when you could have a ranger with 1000 1000 1110 with auto attack short bow then actually pay attention and snare daze vine in place with damage break out the longbow 1200 1900 3000 4000 5000 damage? It is assinine to me.
The point still remains that I don’t have an issue finding a group.
Well give it time. You are a filler you bring nothing to the table but a small amount of DPS and some broken utility. Give it a week when people realize Engineers are just there dying constantly with their weak skills and inability to do anything well. Jacks of all trades masters of nothing.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
It’s sad to see that one of the good build options has been taken away. When I read the patch notes I thought the other grenades getting damage would make up for it, and that hopefully sigils could bring enough damage to the table, but this is just a joke.
With the cooldowns on sigils such as sigil of air, it’s inconceivable to think that sigils couldn’t even try to make up the damage.
Engineers have the smallest player base, and this, along with our embarrassing downed state isn’t helping our case.
Did some quick testing in the mists, with nothing but the Grenadier trait chosen. Bombs are dealing 950 non crit, 1500 crit. Grenades are dealing 3x 270 (810) non crit, and a max of 1290 if all three crit (3x 430.)
I seem to recall bombs dealing less damage than grenades, once you got the third grenade from the trait. I can’t recall exact numbers, but I don’t think bomb damage has been reduced. If it was, then it wasn’t by as much as grenades.
Running these tests is kind of depressing. There used to be a pretty good roaming burst damage build in sPvP using the Rifle #3 and #5, along with Grenade Barrage. Grenade Barrage used to hit upwards of 11k damage. Now? 6-7k. So long spec, you were fun while you lasted.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
I’m pretty sure the Engi Rifle shoots slower than the Ranger’s short bow, though. Against single targets, or targets who are spread out, the Ranger should win out, I think. Plus, the Ranger applies automatic bleeds when beside or behind their target with their short bow #1.
You also need to factor in pet damage on top of whatever the Ranger is dealing.
I made a Engineer to get away from the Ranger bugs/etc. I enjoy playing it in PVE (P/P crit build) and using the toolkit skills. But when dungeoning with it (Engineer) I was (and am still) finding it hard to find a specific role to play with it, healing was a role I had been trying get into recently but I won’t bother doing that anymore now since the patch reduced healing amount.
The other kits compared to the grenade kit aren’t all that amazing. 30% reduction on the main grenade skill that requires a lot of effort+focus and if used often causes pain— not right.
So now everyone is holding out for kits to scale with weapon damage? When that does happen there will probably be further overall damage reduction going along with it. Nullifying any potential damage gain from this scale.
With the Engineer not being able to support a group like it used to be able to, now I have no idea what to do with my Engineer in dungeons. Well, at least it doesn’t have a aggro magnet pet that can’t be stowed easily because of the 60 cool down delay. That also pops out when the slightest damage amount is taken.
In the mean time I love my 1000+ crit with autoattack Ranger.
Auto-attack rifle engineer has had 1200-1400+ crit at 50-70% crit rate since before launch. And unlike your ranger, due to piercing, a single rifle shot can hit multiple foes. It’s posts like these that make me wonder if the people in this thread ever even tried a non-grenade build.
Have you seen the “rifle is poor damage”posts prior to patch? I was just sitting there scratching my head.
Engi rifle auto attack is like the #2 highest dps ability after grenades in the game..
