Guild Wars 2

I haven’t played since HoT was announced as a buy-to-play, but…

I’ll alter my original ‘fix hobosacks and I’ll buy a bunch of gems,’ and instead make it ‘fix hobosacks, and I’ll buy HoT for both myself and my girlfriend.’

So are we going to keep bumping this? Because if this isn’t fixed in HoT I will be helluva upset.
Especially since this game is so cosmetic centric. Which i like…

Was their any decent dev response on the previous post in General? Can’t seem to recal.

I don’t play engi a lot, but I agree the bag is ugly and players shouldn’t be forced to have it when using kits

MaXi.3642:

I don’t play engi a lot, but I agree the bag is ugly and players shouldn’t be forced to have it when using kits

Thanks for your support!

Engi support bump

While I agree the sacks are ugly and make the engi less desirable they serve a fairly important purpose that ANet would need to solve to remove them. Due to the number of different kits ,the different playstyles and abilities of each, and the speed with which engis can switch between them, it is important that a large obvious visual queue as to which kit is currently in use is important for pvp balance reasons.

Therefore I would suggest you make your suggestion around some sort of fairly large hand based indicator for each kit. Each one would need to be large and unique enough to be easily seen and recognized from at least 1500 range. My concern is that grenades and bandages are not really that big, so either you will have an obnoxiously large, goofy looking grenade/bandage for those kits or you will need to find some other obviously connectable symbol.

Yeah, I support the removal of the sacks completely.

We’re engineers. We can fire a burst a flame from our pistol, make a rifle fire a net, make a harpoon gun fire bombs, but can’t build a standalone flamethrower or Elixir gun?

This is what the weaponless kits(like grenade, bomb, and medkit) should look like(not exactly, but similar):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/d/d4/Seasatchel.jpg

Different kits should have different colors and designs.

Bumping for support

gaspara.4079:

While I agree the sacks are ugly and make the engi less desirable they serve a fairly important purpose that ANet would need to solve to remove them. Due to the number of different kits ,the different playstyles and abilities of each, and the speed with which engis can switch between them, it is important that a large obvious visual queue as to which kit is currently in use is important for pvp balance reasons.

Therefore I would suggest you make your suggestion around some sort of fairly large hand based indicator for each kit. Each one would need to be large and unique enough to be easily seen and recognized from at least 1500 range. My concern is that grenades and bandages are not really that big, so either you will have an obnoxiously large, goofy looking grenade/bandage for those kits or you will need to find some other obviously connectable symbol.

This has been brought up against the arguement time and again, but the truth is that the backpacks are not visible enough from your designated 1500 range either to actually matter. Given that they are covered by the character facing you. Those backpacks serve no actual purpose whatsoever.

But since we are practicle people and for the sake of arguement, lets say that they are super-important for some people to be able to tell what kit the engineer uses. The answer then is Standardized Character Models, a mode introduced not long ago specificly for the sole purpose of standardizing character appearences in PvP for better recognition of skills and animations. Make that mode have the backpacks visible at all time, but let the actual players who grind and spend on in-game cosmetics to actually look good regardless of what skills they use.

gaspara.4079:

While I agree the sacks are ugly and make the engi less desirable they serve a fairly important purpose that ANet would need to solve to remove them. Due to the number of different kits ,the different playstyles and abilities of each, and the speed with which engis can switch between them, it is important that a large obvious visual queue as to which kit is currently in use is important for pvp balance reasons.

Therefore I would suggest you make your suggestion around some sort of fairly large hand based indicator for each kit. Each one would need to be large and unique enough to be easily seen and recognized from at least 1500 range. My concern is that grenades and bandages are not really that big, so either you will have an obnoxiously large, goofy looking grenade/bandage for those kits or you will need to find some other obviously connectable symbol.

Yeah, the visual que is your skill bar changing. huuurrrdurrrrrrrr

gaspara.4079:

While I agree the sacks are ugly and make the engi less desirable they serve a fairly important purpose that ANet would need to solve to remove them. Due to the number of different kits ,the different playstyles and abilities of each, and the speed with which engis can switch between them, it is important that a large obvious visual queue as to which kit is currently in use is important for pvp balance reasons.

Therefore I would suggest you make your suggestion around some sort of fairly large hand based indicator for each kit. Each one would need to be large and unique enough to be easily seen and recognized from at least 1500 range. My concern is that grenades and bandages are not really that big, so either you will have an obnoxiously large, goofy looking grenade/bandage for those kits or you will need to find some other obviously connectable symbol.

As you’ll see in the OP there are several solutions.

Another of which could be larger symbols. But the backpacks, especially as they are A, behind a person, and B, obstructed by true backpacks, can be so confusing that they serve no purpose.

That’s not to mention that there’s so many other weird backpacks that look like the engineer ones that it’s crazy.

I would love for them to get rid of them, or at least make them look good. Something that would actually fit the magitech armor or something. I would love to burn down mordrem with my flamethrower, but I would still like to see my spinal blade backpack.

Yes please remove them, i stopped playing my engineer at all because i got tired of not being able to see my packpack underneath the hobosack that i have to have out at all times for some odd reason.

I still think the “tell” on Engis could have easily been something non-hobosack related.
Hell, if we’re to consider an Ele’s “bracelet” effects to be enough of a tell for attune-swapping, there’s no honest excuse for Engineers to have to go far beyond the pale by having a permanent backpack. Indeed, the weaponry should’ve held enough difference in overall design to handle that issue.
As we stand now, I wasted my time putting that Antitoxin Injector on my Norn. Not like she gets to show it off half the time. And this, for a game with such an assortment of endgame cosmetics, is just harsh.

There was already a thread about this. Dev feedback in the thread said they are looking at options to solve the hobosack issue.

Mo Mo.1947:

There was already a thread about this. Dev feedback in the thread said they are looking at options to solve the hobosack issue.

Quite a while ago if i do remember correctly think its a year old now, i know this has been asked about many many times, and there still hasnt been a change on this issue. So, really dont see the harm in the OPs opening of a new thread.

Alternate solution: hobosacks for everyone!

Mo Mo.1947:

There was already a thread about this. Dev feedback in the thread said they are looking at options to solve the hobosack issue.

Seems like we are just being placated.

Considering the endgame is all about aesthetics, hobosacks shouldn’t exist to begin with – they can completely ruin a good character design, especially considering that engineers are even too focused upon kits (and thus forced to have hobosacks upon them).
I hope that hobosacks will be annihilated out of existance and that us engineers will have the same aesthetical endgame that any other class has.

I’m an engineer and couldn’t care less.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

They should have been removed 2 years ago.

This so much this! ^^

I’m worried about them fixing hobo-sacks in HoT, if they do I won’t be able to look in here and see the same thread that’s been here for almost 2 years now and calms me about things never changing :P

Has this issue really been ignored for 2 years?

Tskales.2804:

Has this issue really been ignored for 2 years?

“Ignored” is a strong word, as there have been dev posts/comments about it.

But yeah, we’ve been complaining about it for that long, and all that’s be done so far is jack squat.

Dante.1763:

Mo Mo.1947:

There was already a thread about this. Dev feedback in the thread said they are looking at options to solve the hobosack issue.

Quite a while ago if i do remember correctly think its a year old now, i know this has been asked about many many times, and there still hasnt been a change on this issue. So, really dont see the harm in the OPs opening of a new thread.

Every time there’s any kind of response to the Hobosack issue, it’s pretty much “We’d like to do something, but we don’t have the resources. The guys’ve been spitballing some ideas, though!”
…and then they put out Mail Carriers as customization.
…they add animations for gem-store only infinite gathering tools.
…they add a voice-acted back item.
…they argue against capes for almost exactly the reasons Hobosacks are a bad thing.

At this point, it seems to me that they will never have the resources, because they will always be tied up in one project or another, especially, of course, projects that get put on the Gem Store. They don’t seem to care about Hobosacks, especially compared against literally anything else, as long as they can put it on the Gem Store it seems like.

The problem is that they’ve never bothered to actually implement anything, even the absolute most resource-considerate interpretation of “If show back item tag is checked, Kit does not cover existing back item, even if it’s invisible; if show back item is not checked, Kit does show up,” accompanied by an indication similar to the Elementalist’s attunement badges on the boon bar.
There’s no real sPvP balance threat in making the kits less noticeable (not that Kits are even reliable as a tell – two of them are almost identical except for a wrench-in-hand on one, characters tend to be obscuring the Kit, and those who use Kits heavily tend to ping-pong between them with great speed).

This is all contributory to my personal disinclination to buy Heart of Thorns, or even gems.
Why would I give them more money than I did buying the game on release at full price, when they couldn’t even be bothered to perform such a simple Quality of Life adjustment sometime in the years between then and now? Why should I?

As for whether there’s a need for more threads about Hobosacks, as I’ve gone off on a bit of a rant – we still have them, don’t we? Besides, the only time we get devs to pretend they care is when we go, find them, and call them out on it in threads they actually seem to consider worth responding to; the last dev responses we received in the Hobosack thread started a few days after I went into a thread about Capes and pointed out the hypocrisy involved in their arguments against, before which there was a resounding silence of something like a year, year-and-a-half.

They’ve not entirely ignored it, but every time they talk about it, it’s just “We don’t have the resources available. Also, please buy this thing from the Gem Store that surely required far more resources than would be required to fix Hobosacks.”

Seriously. Mail Carriers, fancy gathering tools with special animations, a voice-acted back item…and they’ll probably tell us there’s no resources for fixing Hobosacks until the servers shut down. I can understand needing to make money, but Ivory Towering and refusing to even perform the most resource-considerate version of a no-Hobosack fix just…it’s part of why I will not buy gems until Hobosacks are fixed. I will not buy Heart of Thorns unless they’re fixed. I haven’t even logged on since HoT was announced as a paid expansion. They can’t even be bothered to commit the manpower to resolve this Quality-of-Life issue after two years of having Engineers be the only class who often can’t see their back item, why should I give them more money?

I think they will be keeping them in the game for the future hobo specialization that engineers will get, but I would prefer they just get the boot.

wont let this post die.

I think the best thing would be a satchel version that appears on the waist, either behind or to the side.

When a back item is equipped and shown, it’ll replace the backack version.

No, the best solution is to just create a unique weapon for each kit and then you’ll be like every other class. There is no reason to have anything beyond the weapon in your hand to signify what weapon you’re using. To say otherwise is just to make excuses for having the hobosack.

Anyway, it’s fairly clear the devs just don’t care. If they did it would be fixed by now. They’ve had the time for it and they just refuse to do it.

Torsailr.8456:

No, the best solution is to just create a unique weapon for each kit and then you’ll be like every other class. There is no reason to have anything beyond the weapon in your hand to signify what weapon you’re using. To say otherwise is just to make excuses for having the hobosack.

Anyway, it’s fairly clear the devs just don’t care. If they did it would be fixed by now. They’ve had the time for it and they just refuse to do it.

Attument like icons that re-use the kit icon and a checkbox to hide the kit backpack would be less of a hassle and solve everything wrong with kits in 1 swoop. Wanna keep the backpack? You can. Dont wanna keep it? You can. The “attument icon” does its job either way. Also to a way to “sheath” the kit weapon would be neat to not always stand in battle stance…is like an ele cant put his weapons away. Well.. in the last poi where they showed that warrior burning down roots in that adventure he used a flamer that actually was stored on his back like a rifle before he used it, it also had no hobosack…so its obvios they CAN do it…lets just hope they actually WILL

bumpedibumpedibump

What? Is this real? Hobo sacks are cool! That’s one of the reason I made an engineer in the first place! If you guys are really annoyed by them, I have a few suggestion for what can be done to fix them:

1) Almost mandatory: make bomb kit and tool kit different from each other!

2) Add attunements-like icons and add an option to hide backpacks. Frankly, good engineers switch kits so fast that I’m not sure you’d get a lot of counter play by adding them but whatever.

3) Let us buy cultural backpack skins for gold or karma! I’m not too confident on that one because Anet probably doesn’t want to offer a profession-exclusive feature. But engineers have almost no weapon customization choices so it would be fair imo.

To those willing to hide backpacks: what about the flamethrower? A graphic designer worked hard to create the coolest looking weapon kit in the game and you want to get rid of it? If they add this “hide backpack” feature, I hope they nerf the FT for those who chose to hide it, because it can’t perform well without a tank.

You guys (engi community) are persistent… Good luck

As a note for those that may not have seen it, Basaltface pointed out an interesting thing seen in the Twitch stream last week.

Basaltface.2786:

well… from that stream i got some infos…
[…]
-the warrior used a flamethrower that was STOWED on the back like a rifle
and had no darn hobosack (lets hope thats the norm for engi kits soon)
[…]

It is possible (unlikely as it is ANet we’re talking about, but possible) that this change will translate over to the horrible hobosack issue that has kept me from playing engi for over 2 years.

Tskales.2804:

Has this issue really been ignored for 2 years?

I don’t think it’s ignored… it’s probably a running office joke. For now, the possibility of a hobosackless existence is but a dream.

It hasn’t been ignored – there are some responses about removing hobo sack a few pages ago – i really hope they get rid of the hobosack in hot.

Xyonon.3987:

It hasn’t been ignored – there are some responses about removing hobo sack a few pages ago – i really hope they get rid of the hobosack in hot.

in the poi where they talked about adventures the war of the dev used a flamer kit without a hobosack and it was holstered on the back like a rifle…so yea lets hope thats the norm now for kits

Yes, totally agree. This really should be fixed.

BillFreist.1527:

For example, who doesn’t like a sweet fanny-pack?

Me! I’m sorry, but I’d also love an option to hide butt-capes. The gear design in this game seems semi-obsessed with butt-capes. The majority of gear…male and female…seems to have the “sweater tied around the waist” effect.

I do agree 100% with the desire to hide the “hobo sacks” too. I’ve recently rolled my first engi, in anticipation of the hammer+flying robots upgrade in HoT. Hopefully this specialization will not have hobo sacks at all, but if it does…I’d go out of my way to slot utilities that did not include hobo sacks.

Showing support by bumping this thread.
This has gone too far without being adressed.
Engis seem to be getting a hammer as a weapon, and the only reason I cannot be fully esctatic to try this out is because I know these ugly bags on our characters’ backs will make the excitement go away pretty quickly.
Fix the kitten ed hobosacks.

Why is the tag for this thread “[Suggestion]” It should be “[DEMAND]”

Stop being so polite, this is something that NEEDS to be fixed.

Argon.1563:

Why is the tag for this thread “[Suggestion]” It should be “[DEMAND]”

Stop being so polite, this is something that NEEDS to be fixed.

My thoughts about it in a nutshell… specially now that the hammer will for sure attract quite a few people to the class. I want them to stay and enjoy the engineer and see the power this class can muster up WHILE also looking fancy.

Does it need to be fixed? Yes.

Does it have anything to do with HoT, or is there any reason to bundle this fix with HoT? No.

It does have something to do with HoT – HoT might take a hit from Engineer mains not wanting to continue being treated as non-participants in the cosmetics-driven endgame, and thus deciding to not spend money on it. I’ve played since release, and I haven’t so much as patched my launcher since HoT was announced as a paid expansion, partially for that reason, in fact. They’ve ignored it, or put it off, for almost three years now, and it’s going to hurt their sales in some capacity.

As for reasons to bundle the fix with HoT: There are none. This should’ve been fixed before the game ever released to begin with, it could’ve been fixed at any point, and it just…got passed over. “We don’t have the resources,” has been the only response, when they bothered to say anything.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with “Hey, guys, when HoT’s done, it’d be nice if we maybe got an intern or somebody to put a couple lines of code in and sketch some indicators,” and I don’t think there’s a better forum to put that request in than the one that they’ll be looking at to try to drum up hype.

Basaltface.2786:

Xyonon.3987:

It hasn’t been ignored – there are some responses about removing hobo sack a few pages ago – i really hope they get rid of the hobosack in hot.

in the poi where they talked about adventures the war of the dev used a flamer kit without a hobosack and it was holstered on the back like a rifle…so yea lets hope thats the norm now for kits

If a fix is coming at all, the release of HoT is our best bet. It’s the perfect opportunity for ANet to run through the long list of low priority issues and fix them in one sweeping patch, ready for the influx of new players. If hobosacks are still around after HoT, we might as well give up hope.

ninja sloth.2658:

Basaltface.2786:

Xyonon.3987:

It hasn’t been ignored – there are some responses about removing hobo sack a few pages ago – i really hope they get rid of the hobosack in hot.

in the poi where they talked about adventures the war of the dev used a flamer kit without a hobosack and it was holstered on the back like a rifle…so yea lets hope thats the norm now for kits

If a fix is coming at all, the release of HoT is our best bet. It’s the perfect opportunity for ANet to run through the long list of low priority issues and fix them in one sweeping patch, ready for the influx of new players. If hobosacks are still around after HoT, we might as well give up hope.

Well if they really shouldnt fix it at HoT then im actually out of that game and move on. I had enough of the constant ignoring and i really doubt im going to get anything nice armor wise in the x-pac (charr engineer… and that seems to be the version of the helmet in the trailer for charr…so im pretty certain the majority of the rest of charr related stuff will look equally charming http://i.imgur.com/pD8QIg4.png ) so i want to have atleast the hobosack gone to have an atleast somewhat nice looking charr engineer atleast ONCE. Im really not asking for much but a simple darn fix to have atleast equal footing with other classes in the armor\backpiece department… and if 2 years of rageposting that slowly turned into desperate begging isnt enough to bring across a point.. then ill find myself a new “home” that gives a darn..

This thread shall be kept alive by my burning hatred for the hobosack!

I like to bump this thread because the main (more like only) reason I don’t play engineer is because of those ridiculous backpacks. We already have the ability to make our head and shoulder gear not visible, so I don’t understand why we’re forced to show those bags. I tried many times to pick up the profession, but I either have to deal with being bored with a monotonous set of weapons or have to deal with the eyesore that are hobosacks. Two situations that I rather not deal with. To this day I have a character slot waiting for this aesthetic fix.

Righteous bumpage!

I want to use KossOnKoss on my Engi AT ALL TIMES!