Guild Wars 2

insanemaniac.2456:

EdwinLi.1284:

Well opinions are opinions and I have already seen the thread but it just based on a assumption rather than actual ingame experience.

LOL

based on the stat screen = based on an assumption??

an opinion is when i say that because of the fact that hammer auto is weaker than grenade 1 it should be buffed to compensate for the extra risk that is being taken by being in melee.

The stat screen is based on what to expect in the game. However, the data on Hammer skill damage output is not tested in the game yet so it is just a assumption of what to expect and not what was actually obtained in the game.

You should never take untested data as actual facts.

Another thing that already needs to be addressed. Judging by the livestream all of the moving gyros are moving too slow.

Either make them stick closer to the character or increase their movement speed.

I miss the time when engi’s were the queen/kings of vulnerability. I wouldn’t mind the hammer losing the might for larger vulnerability. Something like:
Hit one 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Hit two 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Final hit 5 stacks of vul ( 12sec ) and a blast finisher ( I love that idea and lots of people have requested it

Sarah

Sarahfull.4930:

I miss the time when engi’s were the queen/kings of vulnerability. I wouldn’t mind the hammer losing the might for larger vulnerability. Something like:
Hit one 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Hit two 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Final hit 5 stacks of vul ( 12sec ) and a blast finisher ( I love that idea and lots of people have requested it

Sarah

Only if the blast finisher is probability based like auto projection finishers.

Otherwise it is much too powerful.

I think if the dps stayed low, a blast finisher could be viable. It’s a radical concept since we’ve never seen a blast finisher auto outside of Lightning Hammer, but it could definitely make things interesting.

Here’s why I think it would be balanced:
In PvP/WvW, you’ll rarely be able to spam the AA enough to get the blast finisher.

In PvE, it would be a tradeoff between utility (blast on AA) or DPS (kit swapping for max dps). Even though you could conceivably grant 3 stacks of 20 sec might every 2.5ish seconds (each attack on AA is 1/2 sec, but idk aftercast times), you still probably wouldn’t stack might like a phalanx strength war.

Even if you had 100% fire field up time on every 3rd AA swing, you wouldn’t cap your group on might.

However, it’s possible that if they did keep a lower damage AA on hammer and add a blast, it may still just be better to stick to kit swapping and just bring a phalanx strength war, which kinda kills the point of having blast AAs…

EdwinLi.1284:

insanemaniac.2456:

EdwinLi.1284:

Well opinions are opinions and I have already seen the thread but it just based on a assumption rather than actual ingame experience.

LOL

based on the stat screen = based on an assumption??

an opinion is when i say that because of the fact that hammer auto is weaker than grenade 1 it should be buffed to compensate for the extra risk that is being taken by being in melee.

The stat screen is based on what to expect in the game. However, the data on Hammer skill damage output is not tested in the game yet so it is just a assumption of what to expect and not what was actually obtained in the game.

You should never take untested data as actual facts.

at this time we have no reason to disbelieve the tooltip because a single mortar auto crits for 600-650 using rabid amulet in pvp with a tooltip damage of 367. hammer autos are listed at 364 in rabid and dealt crits of 650-700 (and grant might).

please take your unwarranted skepticism elsewhere, its unnecessary in this instance because its extremely easy to test the data against what currently happens in game and confirm that the tooltips are in fact not kitten this time.

I hope the damage won’t surpass the nade auto hit.

IF the grenade had the utility of the hammer, then by all means nerf its damage. But grenade only has damage, thus it needs to be high.

Warrior hammer also has middling damage, but is highly preferred in PVP and WvW due to everything else it brings over GS and axe. Same with guardian hammer, with its perma protect and low CD blast finisher and high burst.

Forget the hammer, give me harpoon gun on land ftw.

Dahkeus.8243:

I think if the dps stayed low, a blast finisher could be viable. It’s a radical concept since we’ve never seen a blast finisher auto outside of Lightning Hammer, but it could definitely make things interesting.

Here’s why I think it would be balanced:
In PvP/WvW, you’ll rarely be able to spam the AA enough to get the blast finisher.

In PvE, it would be a tradeoff between utility (blast on AA) or DPS (kit swapping for max dps). Even though you could conceivably grant 2 stacks of 20 sec might every 2.5ish seconds (each attack on AA is 1/2 sec, but idk aftercast times), you still probably wouldn’t stack might like a phalanx strength war.

Even if you had 100% fire field up time on every 3rd AA swing, you wouldn’t cap your group on might.

However, it’s possible that if they did keep a lower damage AA on hammer and add a blast, it may still just be better to stick to kit swapping and just bring a phalanx strength war, which kinda kills the point of having blast AAs…

First a blast of a fire field is 3 stacks of might, not 2.

But, yes you’re right. It wouldn’t be OP because it’d be locked behind a ~2.5s ramp up. To get much power out of it you’d need someone else providing fields for you as most of ours would break the chain and we could get at most a single blast with the hammer in, something we can already do many ways especially with Flame Blast on a 6s recharge.

Like you say though to get 25 stacks of might you’d need 9 blasts (2 stacks going to waste), which with a 2.5s ramp up would mean it’d take 22.5s. You’d need strength runes to pull off maxing stacks… and not ever deal with pesky guardian light fields

lorddarkflare.9186:

Sarahfull.4930:

I miss the time when engi’s were the queen/kings of vulnerability. I wouldn’t mind the hammer losing the might for larger vulnerability. Something like:
Hit one 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Hit two 1 stacks of vul ( 12sec )
Final hit 5 stacks of vul ( 12sec ) and a blast finisher ( I love that idea and lots of people have requested it

Sarah

Only if the blast finisher is probability based like auto projection finishers.

Otherwise it is much too powerful.

Yea it’s strong although I won’t say OP. Besides it would be better than increasing the base damage. I’m not too keen of might with auto attacks although a blast would be brillant

Sarah

Jerus.4350:

Dahkeus.8243:

I think if the dps stayed low, a blast finisher could be viable. It’s a radical concept since we’ve never seen a blast finisher auto outside of Lightning Hammer, but it could definitely make things interesting.

Here’s why I think it would be balanced:
In PvP/WvW, you’ll rarely be able to spam the AA enough to get the blast finisher.

In PvE, it would be a tradeoff between utility (blast on AA) or DPS (kit swapping for max dps). Even though you could conceivably grant 2 stacks of 20 sec might every 2.5ish seconds (each attack on AA is 1/2 sec, but idk aftercast times), you still probably wouldn’t stack might like a phalanx strength war.

Even if you had 100% fire field up time on every 3rd AA swing, you wouldn’t cap your group on might.

However, it’s possible that if they did keep a lower damage AA on hammer and add a blast, it may still just be better to stick to kit swapping and just bring a phalanx strength war, which kinda kills the point of having blast AAs…

First a blast of a fire field is 3 stacks of might, not 2.

But, yes you’re right. It wouldn’t be OP because it’d be locked behind a ~2.5s ramp up. To get much power out of it you’d need someone else providing fields for you as most of ours would break the chain and we could get at most a single blast with the hammer in, something we can already do many ways especially with Flame Blast on a 6s recharge.

Like you say though to get 25 stacks of might you’d need 9 blasts (2 stacks going to waste), which with a 2.5s ramp up would mean it’d take 22.5s. You’d need strength runes to pull off maxing stacks… and not ever deal with pesky guardian light fields

Doh, corrected typo.

They will never add Blast finisher from autoattacks.
Blast finisher are most powerful finisher in game.
It can stack might, it can AOE Blind, it can AOE heal for really huge amount, it cam apply AOE retalation, AOE Chaos Armor, AOE ALL!

And you want it all put on 3-th autoattack, to use blast finisher every 1,5-2sec just by pressing 1 burron???

Engi now have Blast finisher, 2 blocks + reflect projectile, static field for stun and 3 Leaps, with additionally giving AOE Supper-speed. And it’s ALL only from 1 weapon….

Isn’t it enough?

Engi are one of TOP dps in dungeons right now.
Engi are extremely good in Tournaments and team fights.
Awesome for Roaming on WvW.
Only where they are bad(not really bad, but other classes are better) are big fights like WvW and may be will be in Raids.
Scrapper will fill that space.

Scraper will be extremely powerful on WvW and GvG fights.

personally id rather an int sigil proc (maybe 1-2 stacks)… or anything besides a blast since we already have great blast access. a guaranteed crit is unique, more useful in pvp/wvw than pve, and makes us think about our next move. if we got a full 3 stacks then cav/valk builds would be instantly legit for engi, right now those stat combos are meh.

Rizo.9534:

They will never add Blast finisher from autoattacks.
Blast finisher are most powerful finisher in game.
It can stack might, it can AOE Blind, it can AOE heal for really huge amount, it cam apply AOE retalation, AOE Chaos Armor, AOE ALL!

And you want it all put on 3-th autoattack, to use blast finisher every 1,5-2sec just by pressing 1 burron???

Engi now have Blast finisher, 2 blocks + reflect projectile, static field for stun and 3 Leaps, with additionally giving AOE Supper-speed. And it’s ALL only from 1 weapon….

Isn’t it enough?

Engi are one of TOP dps in dungeons right now.
Engi are extremely good in Tournaments and team fights.
Awesome for Roaming on WvW.
Only where they are bad(not really bad, but other classes are better) are big fights like WvW and may be will be in Raids.
Scrapper will fill that space.

Scraper will be extremely powerful on WvW and GvG fights.

I can guarantee you it’ll be more than 1.5s and most likely more than 2s. There will be aftercasts ruling out 1.5s and they’re generally more than an additional .5s all combined. I think you greatly overestimate it’s usefulness.

The reason I want this is like you said we’re good in a lot of ways, but one other thing we lack is a solid 1 skill, something that opens up a build and gets us away from having to do the kit swap dance. Now, I love the kit playstyle, it’s why I like engi, but I’ve always felt we should have an option that doesn’t require that, and a strong primary weapon with a solid 1 skill is what it will take to do that. Otherwise we’re just going to swap around to grab the key skills of as many kits as we can. A blast is a nice utility option to provide that, it’s not just pure damage.

So that’s why I want it, we’ve already gone over why it’s really not all that powerful, but just opens up some potential power if you’re playing with a well coordinated team and a few options for us to utilize it ourselves if we are precise on our timings (a single dodge after your firebomb will most likely prevent you from being able to get that blast off within the fire field duration for example).

Some classes don’t have Blast finisher at all.
Some classes don’t have Whirl finisher at all.
Some classes don’t have Fire fields at all.
All classes except Ele and Engi don’t have static field at all.
Some classes don’t have leap finishers at all.

Etc… Etc…

Engi have ALL fields except Dark field.
And Have ALL finishers that possible in game.
I don’t feel that 3 leaps, stun, 2 blocks+reflect and additional blast + damage when blocking require more finishers with insane low cooldown on single weapon.

Game designed that way, that if class can do Absolutely all in one build, class become broken.

Possibilities of hammer now are insane! it can happen, that hammer will require nerf in future, but diffidently not buff for more.

All this thread has done is convinced me that Grenade 1 needs to be nerfed. Which is sad because I really don’t want them to. But you’re really trying to make our Hammer AA better than every other Hammer AA in the game, simply because it’s not better than our ranged kit AA. Clearly there is an elephant in this room.

Nilix.2170:

All this thread has done is convinced me that Grenade 1 needs to be nerfed. Which is sad because I really don’t want them to. But you’re really trying to make our Hammer AA better than every other Hammer AA in the game, simply because it’s not better than our ranged kit AA. Clearly there is an elephant in this room.

Grenades have been cruising for a serious nerf for years now.

Nilix.2170:

All this thread has done is convinced me that Grenade 1 needs to be nerfed. Which is sad because I really don’t want them to. But you’re really trying to make our Hammer AA better than every other Hammer AA in the game, simply because it’s not better than our ranged kit AA. Clearly there is an elephant in this room.

Grenade 1 needs a nerf and then most other kit auto attacks need a buff of some kind. (which is hilarious because they nerfed mortar 1 by 27% when grenade auto attack were STILL better than it)

Bomb 1 is the only one that even comes close and it requires you to be on top of the enemy (also has a delay) if you don’t want it to miss.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Nilix.2170:

All this thread has done is convinced me that Grenade 1 needs to be nerfed. Which is sad because I really don’t want them to. But you’re really trying to make our Hammer AA better than every other Hammer AA in the game, simply because it’s not better than our ranged kit AA. Clearly there is an elephant in this room.

Grenade 1 needs a nerf and then most other kit auto attacks need a buff of some kind. (which is hilarious because they nerfed mortar 1 by 27% when grenade auto attack were STILL better than it)

Bomb 1 is the only one that even comes close and it requires you to be on top of the enemy (also has a delay) if you don’t want it to miss.

It wasn’t for damage. Grenade’s strength is the synergy with the traits we have in explosive line. If those worked differently, and only procced once on any grenade skill usage, but were 3X as potent, it’d actually strengthen bomb kit as well as weakening grenades relatively. In fact the only reason we’d still use grenade kit is because when you factor in the other skills in a power build you still would want the kit, you may potentially see a shift from FT being the third kit to bomb though… maybe?

Anyways, it’s really not grenade1 it’s the synergy in those traits that make it the hands down best 1 skill we have.

But, we still don’t even use it that much, if you are you’re not optimizing. It get use, don’t get me wrong, but even with it being our strongest 1 skill when you compare to most any other profession we use our 1 skill easily less than most. That’s why I want a strong Hammer1. I love the current hammer skills, they’re solid, adding a truly strong 1 skill in a damage sense to the hammer would make it OP with how hard the other skills hit.

Right now Hammer looks similar to other greatswords, where you faceroll the skills and only auto when there’s nothing else for you to hit… we get to throw kits in as well though.

What I was hoping for was something a bit more like Guardian’s hammer, where the 1 skill is the damage dealer, capable of doing a pretty high relative damage to the maxed potential rotation. I think that’d open up freedom in our utilities as we wouldn’t be giving so much up.

That’s not what we’re getting though, so ok, no biggy, but, we could still pull some utility in with the 1 skill. And we’re getting some actually. I like the blast idea because I don’t feel it’s overpowered at all really, but it’d be enough to make me want to be hammering away letting my team supply fields to catch free blasts in. I’d probably still use some kits but I wouldn’t feel as tied. I’d probably do something like FT and EG for the quick and powerful blasts they have, be autoing catch the blast in a provided field, then swap FT/EG for 2-3 total blasts.

Anyways, just kinda rambling now I’ll end it there.

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

In pve… Might stacks mean nothing if you are in a good group, you will already have full might. You cant balance an auto attack on might stacks.

In pvp, if you are auto attacking THAT much you are doing something wrong. I would be just fine if they removed the might stacks and increased the base dmg of hammer 1

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

thats what empower is for

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

You dont melee much in pvp do you?

Apolo.5942:

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

You dont melee much in pvp do you?

Ever heard of d/d ele? Melee build, brawler, high sustain, stacks might, dominates pvp atm? That is the kind of playstyle scrapper (and hammer) are BUILT for.

A brawler works by having lots of sustain (and you have some great trait combos for that), lots of defense, and stacks might to do damage. The auto-attack is PERFECT for that role.

Yes, it isn’t a burst or high-dps role, it is meant to get into long fights and win through attrition. You might think that might is worthless, but when you take a celestial or other brawler amulet, it is of UTMOST importance.

BlackBeard.2873:

A brawler works by having lots of sustain (and you have some great trait combos for that), lots of defense, and stacks might to do damage. The auto-attack is PERFECT for that role.

Who is going to just let you leap up to them and smack them in the face with the hammer long enough for AA chain might and vuln stacks to make any difference? More importantly, it applies no damaging conditions, you wouldn’t run cele ammy if you are building around hammer.

Do you seriously see yourself fighting and winning against a D/D ele as a hammer/anything engineer in a melee fight?

icewyrm.5038:

BlackBeard.2873:

A brawler works by having lots of sustain (and you have some great trait combos for that), lots of defense, and stacks might to do damage. The auto-attack is PERFECT for that role.

Who is going to just let you leap up to them and smack them in the face with the hammer long enough for AA chain might and vuln stacks to make any difference? More importantly, it applies no damaging conditions, you wouldn’t run cele ammy if you are building around hammer.

Do you seriously see yourself fighting and winning against a D/D ele as a hammer/anything engineer in a melee fight?

Let’s be honest, D/D Celele is not really the metric we should be using to judge a given build’s viability.

I think I get what he is saying though. Every time you auto attack with the hammer you’re going to get Might, even more if you’re interrupting the chain and almost always using the first hit only which is most likely in PvP. You’re providing sustainable might stacks to yourself throughout the duration of combat, and you’re very defensive even though all your defensive skills also deal damage.

I definitely agree hammer is a sustainable weapon, damage output and condition application will determine if Cele is the best amulet or not (I’m thinking Soldier) but it definitely is sutainable. Not being a D/D Celele doesn’t mean it’s not sustainable.

So far the hammer appears similar to existing engie weaponsets. You’ll swap to it, use the useful skills, and then swap to something else to do damage. If your big hitters are on cooldown and you’ve got nothing left, you’ll swap to a kit which has better co-efficients on auto’s until those cooldowns are back. I just don’t see the engie hammer AA chain getting much play in SPVP other than maybe cleaving downstates.

Well, I’m not trying to be a negative nancy. It could be nice to slot in Elixir X, 2 elixirs and the elixir gun and pack an AoE cleave in our mainhand now. It certainly seems like a competitive choice compared to rifle, although I’m not sold on the traits we have to take to get access to it.

Bringing D/D ele into the argument is probably spurious, but then I didn’t raise that particular comparison, I was just responding to the previous comment.

Just want to point out D/D Ele isn’t really melee, it’s their closer range but it’s honestly mid range by comparison to other professions. Melee range 1 skills for most is 130, I think there may be a few that go to 150 or 180. Ele’s is at 300-600 though, so basically double the range. It allows you to kite melee players in effect.

Kahrgan.7401:

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

In pve… Might stacks mean nothing if you are in a good group, you will already have full might. You cant balance an auto attack on might stacks.

In pvp, if you are auto attacking THAT much you are doing something wrong. I would be just fine if they removed the might stacks and increased the base dmg of hammer 1

Lots of people talking in circles, but this pretty much sums up the problem with the hammer AA. It’s balanced around the might and vuln it produces, but it’s a redundant buff for organized PvE and meaningless in PvP where you’ll rarely get through a full chain of an AA anyways.

Dahkeus.8243:

Kahrgan.7401:

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

In pve… Might stacks mean nothing if you are in a good group, you will already have full might. You cant balance an auto attack on might stacks.

In pvp, if you are auto attacking THAT much you are doing something wrong. I would be just fine if they removed the might stacks and increased the base dmg of hammer 1

Lots of people talking in circles, but this pretty much sums up the problem with the hammer AA. It’s balanced around the might and vuln it produces, but it’s a redundant buff for organized PvE and meaningless in PvP where you’ll rarely get through a full chain of an AA anyways.

I also agree. I am going to wait to try it before weighing in, but tbh I was really hoping for some serious base 2h dps. Kinda sick of going through all the antics needed to bring serious dps into a fight only to have some fella wielding a 2h sword/hammer come up and basically fart on the mob I am working on and having it just fall over with one/two button pushes On paper at least, I’d rather not have the might/vul at all, just some sick dps. Gonna try it first though.

Can always just shelve the engineer though if it doesn’t deliver and go with a necromancer 2h sword. Now that is a 2h weapon I love.

Yes this was just about PvE.

Darkheron.6271:

Dahkeus.8243:

Kahrgan.7401:

BlackBeard.2873:

You guys do know that hammer gives 1 stack of might PER TARGET HIT with the auto. The auto is already potentially too strong with might-stacking runes in a brawler build, and will easily keep you topped up at 25 might in teamfights.

I wouldn’t be concerned that it is too weak…

In pve… Might stacks mean nothing if you are in a good group, you will already have full might. You cant balance an auto attack on might stacks.

In pvp, if you are auto attacking THAT much you are doing something wrong. I would be just fine if they removed the might stacks and increased the base dmg of hammer 1

Lots of people talking in circles, but this pretty much sums up the problem with the hammer AA. It’s balanced around the might and vuln it produces, but it’s a redundant buff for organized PvE and meaningless in PvP where you’ll rarely get through a full chain of an AA anyways.

I also agree. I am going to wait to try it before weighing in, but tbh I was really hoping for some serious base 2h dps. Kinda sick of going through all the antics needed to bring serious dps into a fight only to have some fella wielding a 2h sword/hammer come up and basically fart on the mob I am working on and having it just fall over with one/two button pushes On paper at least, I’d rather not have the might/vul at all, just some sick dps. Gonna try it first though.

Can always just shelve the engineer though if it doesn’t deliver and go with a necromancer 2h sword. Now that is a 2h weapon I love.

Yes this was just about PvE.

If you’re talking PVE though run in 5, 3, 4 (or 4 for blocks), 2 and you’ll be facerolling just like the warriors/guardians and future reapers.

Hammer is certainly not a bad weapon as a whole. None of those professions listed are getting some amazing 1 skills. Off the top of my head really only guardian hammer has a hefty 1 skill, and honestly that’s what I was hoping for hammer to be more in line with, but in the end hammer is solid.

My only complaint is that it simply still leaves us juggling kits to maximize our output. It didn’t really do anything to deviate from that playstyle. And, I think if we had a “stronger” 1 skill (doesn’t need to be DPS, just a reason to stick to hammer more) that we’d see alternatives to kits strengthened by having a solid option to lean on while in the void of main skills. Kits would likely still be the optimal options, but the gap would shrink and that’d allow more freedom to those not concerned with absolute min/max but just want something strong.

Guys, you talk like on Rev forum…
I want to Be centaur with Staff and shield and output – insane DPS!
Why i’m forced to use shiro Ham/s/s??? bad design! etc.. etc…

Imho: Hammer added to Engineer – exactly what Engi missing atm.

Rizo.9534:

Guys, you talk like on Rev forum…
I want to Be centaur with Staff and shield and output – insane DPS!
Why i’m forced to use shiro Ham/s/s??? bad design! etc.. etc…

Imho: Hammer added to Engineer – exactly what Engi missing atm.

imho tbqh fam buzzword buzzword what exactly is engineer missing?

Combo whirls? I’m not entirely sure random bolts are a “must have”

More AI? We have that, it’s already been gutted.

A ranged stomp/rez? We have Elixir R, but the stomp is new I guess.

Stuns? Are you joking? Hello? Supply Crate? Rifle/Flamethrower juggernaut engineer? Decapineer has been a thing for months now too, and that build has oodles of cc.

A power bunker weapon? Welcome to bomb/tool kit, enjoy your stay.

A block? Here’s a fun fact you probably didn’t notice: Hammer block is 2s and cannot have its CD reduced. A 2s block on a 20s cooldown. Tool kit has a 3s block on a 16 second cooldown. Tool kit’s melee also applies twice the amount of vuln and deals blunderbuss-tier damage on the 3rd auto, that’s not even bringing up crowbar.

Tankiness? A good bunker build? We have 2-3 good bunker builds that aren’t bad at all.

Lightning fields? True, we don’t have those.

Stealth? We have that. Reveal? We have that. Super Speed? We have that.

A 50% less damage drone that will likely just blow up to cleaving or AoE? Cleansing that we already innately get off Healing Turret? A worse healing turret?

What

Are

We

Missing?

And I eagerly await for you to say “But I don’t like those options” in true hypocritical fashion.

Couldn’t agree more Ricky Rouse, it doesn’t provide much new for us. What it does is streamline a lot of stuff we can already do into a more fluid build made perfectly for a bruiser or scrapper type combat, you can be tanky, you can do damage, you can CC, you can pick people up, be mobile, all together with one traitline/weapon selection, of course you supplement it with other areas to strengthen it further or make it more diverse, whatever you want.

Again I’ll say my problem with the hammer is it really didn’t give us anything we didn’t have from a PVE perspective. Defensive? We have P/S w/Toolkit, want mobility, we have Rifle, rocket boots, EG, slick shoes toolkit, and streamlined kit especially with toolkit. Want CC, well again, we have options. Nothing really new added by scrapper, it just gave us a more complete access to it without as many sacrifices.

That said, from the sounds of it, it was needed in PVP… not a fan of the game mode but from what I heard we took a hit in the last specialization update and this seems like it should help. I also see it being pretty fun in WvW. As I’ve said before, I think if it did anything it filled gaps that were caused by the specialization update, so they made a problem to fix >.<

Ricky Rouse.1583:

What

Are

We

Missing?

And I eagerly await for you to say “But I don’t like those options” in true hypocritical fashion.

Po be effective part in WvW raid.
To be effective part in GvG.

Now Scrapper can be FrontLine Fighter, who don’t scare to take damage on his face and split it with Warriors and guardians.
It now can “Shadow refuge” teammates to prevent stomp, or stomp or res ppl from distance.

And you don’t know yet how useful it will be in new PVE raids.

The issue with the weapon AA’s is that engy is balanced around having access to 5734684 skills at a time. You pretty much just flip through all the kits and hit any button that does more damage than grenade AA. Nade AA is only better than bomb AA because 3x vulnerability and shrapnel procs by the way.

If you made hammer AA better than grenade AA, with all of the defense it provides, it would be almost as brokenly overpowered as revenant sword (that means really really OP).

Knox.8962:

The issue with the weapon AA’s is that engy is balanced around having access to 5734684 skills at a time. You pretty much just flip through all the kits and hit any button that does more damage than grenade AA. Nade AA is only better than bomb AA because 3x vulnerability and shrapnel procs by the way.

If you made hammer AA better than grenade AA, with all of the defense it provides, it would be almost as brokenly overpowered as revenant sword (that means really really OP).

I’d agree if we were talking just strait more damage, or if it did something like Phalanx strength or even forcefull greatsword. But I think with a backloaded utility effect like a blast it has the potential to be a powerful stand alone weapon that you want to bang away with without too much interuption while still not be overpowered as it requires a full round of auto as well as coordination with a field. It could stack close to full might if you had fire fields always under you and never interrupted with say a retal field or any other less desireable one.

Basically it would only be powerful when you’re playing sub par Engi, strengthening alternative builds without affecting the main builds much at all. It wouldn’t be what I’d play most of the time, but it’d be something that would let me change the pace and still have some strength in the build.

But it doesn’t have to be a blast just best one I can think of, anything that creates that same type of situation I describe is what I want to see. It’s what I feel is lacking in PVE the most, something that gives strength to non kit juggling builds.

The hammer kit already has 2 whirls, 3 leaps, a projectile reflect, blocks, lightning field, a stun, and an evade. I think a blast would be over the top.

On top of that, it will contribute to zerker DPS about the same amount as rifle currently does, thanks to the non-AA skills (just like rifle already does).

Knox.8962:

The hammer kit already has 2 whirls, 3 leaps, a projectile reflect, blocks, lightning field, a stun, and an evade. I think a blast would be over the top.

On top of that, it will contribute to zerker DPS about the same amount as rifle currently does, thanks to the non-AA skills (just like rifle already does).

I hear ya, I just don’t see it being OP at all.

I’m not suggesting increasing damage at all. I’m saying take off the might/vuln on there currently and tie a blast to the end of the chain.

We’re looking at a ~3s chain.

Within the power rotation there is 2 sections where you’d have the time to pull off a full auto chain, and unlikely that you get all 3 in twice and that’s using the not quite optimized rotation (not starting grenade portion with shrapnel) if you do, then you’re only looking at maybe 1 full chain in the 30s rotation.

Anyways, at this point I realized something that would be OP about it… if you miss. This game will queue the 3rd hit again if you do not connect to a target with the attack. So you could back out during the final swing, blast, and move back in for a second blast + hit. You’d lose DPS but you’d gain double blast… could be potentially OP.

So I guess ehh… I forgot about that little trickery.

Still don’t think it’d be OP if it wasn’t for that though as it wouldn’t be optimal damage, you wouldn’t get the vuln/shrapnel, and I think our optimal rotation would likely still use it for it’s skills rather than auto maybe slipping one in during a longer “void” time between big skills.

Again I’ll say I was really hoping to see a weapon with a strong enough primary attack to devalue kit juggling by decreasing the gap between doing it an not doing it. That’s something I feel Engi is missing and contributing to the weakness in the alternate utilities, as it’s pretty much impossible to beat kits outright, and certainly if dropping a kit reduces your damage to the extent it does now.

The problem with making an auto attack that strong is that you have to make it as strong as the acid bombs and shrapnel grenades of the world, or multi-kitting is still going to be optimal.

Engineer damage is already top tier for condi engy and just below that for zerker engy. Making the hammer strong enough to displace anything currently in rotation would make the damage even higher.

You could certainly relocate the damage to be more AA reliant across the board, and then balance the AAs against each other. That would be a very big undertaking and change the entire design paradigm for the engy.

While that may be a great change, I highly doubt that we’ll see anything of that magnitude before HoT releases.

I’ve changed my mind. Hammer damage shouldn’t even tie with grenades. The weapon is far too versatile to also make it a no brainer for damage. I got carried away with being excited to use it I don’t think I was being fair.

To be clear I think it should be close, I don’t think it should hit like a wet noodle. With what we have figured out from the POI video and the buff Irenio said he gave it (whatever that amount is, anything worth mentioning at all is good enough) I think it’s probably just fine how it is.

You’re misunderstanding me. I don’t want it’s DPS to beat out the current kit juggling. I want some utility on it that makes it strong enough to be worthwhile without kit juggling.

If Irenio’s change is significant enough it’d already do the trick… possibly. Honestly I think it’s kind of OP to have so much DPS inside defensive skills, so I think he did well on that.

The entire point of my post is to strengthen non kit swapping builds, create more diversity, strengthen non kit skills by making you stronger in the void (I define that as the time when we’re spamming 1). Yes acid bomb is still easily the best DPS skill to have around especially considering the utility you get with the EG kit. Flame blast is still always amazing. Grenade kit with barrage and shrapnel… awesome. But I think making any other utilities even close to matching a kit is simply absurd becuase they’d be all in one single skill usage. I know you know engi… probably better than I do, but kits are kittening awesome. I just think the only way to really strengthen non kit options you have to give something that has a stand alone power to decrease that gain of juggling the kits. As strengthening the non kit skills to kit levels is simply too good.

I want an increase to sub optimal builds is all I’m saying. Many people don’t like nades (I love em) many people don’t enjoy the kit dependancy (again I love em) and I think that’s an area that should be addressed with Engi. You’ll probably still use a kit maybe 2, but the 3 kit rotation is finger intensive to the point that I can’t help but feel it limits the popularity of the profession in a negative way (again, I love engi as it is). I feel it’s one of the big limiting factors of the profession is all. I want all those FT/bomb kit spamming Engi’s to have a better option.

I think that song someone made about Engi summed it up great, “The noobfilter profession” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yva23bkjXHc

(Honestly I’m a salty old at hear kitten that drinks too much whiskey and yells at kids on my lawn, so it’s not my style to listen to this stuff, but I’m a HUGE fan of that song, so dead on and cute)

To add, I literally have 0 complaints about current engi. We do great in a lot of things, cover a lot of versatility well enough, just nothing I pinpoint as a “we need this” other than needing something for players that don’t want to play it to it’s max (which again, I love doing, I’m far from perfect but that’s why I love it, still room for improvement).

The only approach I can see to make non-kits work is to make all of the kits function like the guardian hammer, where all the damage is piled up on the AA, and 2-4 are utility skills.

What we have today for basically all of the kits and weapons is basically guardian GS, where the majority of the damage sits on 2-5, and the autos are anemic.

That’s why you rarely see non-kits skills getting used unless they provide a stunbreak

I get that, but I think we can strengthen non kit, or more so non full kit builds by giving at least one strong enough chained auto attack. Not looking to create a new optimal build just decrease the gap. Give a decent option to those that don’t want to play it. One that isn’t strait FT or bomb spam which I’m sure you know how big that gap is. Basically there’s too big a gap between the build options in PVE. (before SD screwup it was pretty decent in PVP for it’s burst potential, that just needs a fix IMO).

Anet dev said they buffed it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Since-the-Scrapper-Reveal/first#post5521871

reapex.8546:

Anet dev said they buffed it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Since-the-Scrapper-Reveal/first#post5521871

Yep! I updated the OP to reflect it.

bwe3 hype bois!

Rizo.9534:

Ricky Rouse.1583:

What

Are

We

Missing?

And I eagerly await for you to say “But I don’t like those options” in true hypocritical fashion.

Po be effective part in WvW raid.
To be effective part in GvG.

Now Scrapper can be FrontLine Fighter, who don’t scare to take damage on his face and split it with Warriors and guardians.
It now can “Shadow refuge” teammates to prevent stomp, or stomp or res ppl from distance.

And you don’t know yet how useful it will be in new PVE raids.

We have mortar kit and grenades which are excellent for WvW because they work in a similar fashion to Meteor Shower: AoE that can hit multiple targets with multiple explosions. You’re going to tag a hell of a lot of people with a single grenade cluster.

Also I’d rather take Elixir S and be able to stealth my friends in a similar AoE than take stealth gyro and waste my Supply Crate slot (Which is an AoE stun that lasts longer than anything the Gyro has to offer)

Also Stealth does not PREVENT a stomp. You need to move out of their stomp range to prevent it. It does, however, make your stomps easier.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Also Stealth does not PREVENT a stomp. You need to move out of their stomp range to prevent it. It does, however, make your stomps easier.

Yes, it is. If someone start channel Stomp, and you get stealth, they will not stomp you.
They’ll stomp you, ONLY if you’ll continue to hit 1 1 1 1 1 1.

About Barrage… Yes, you can use them, but under good pressure you can’t stay as long as any other front line fighting class, that meant that you’ll become rally-bot after few minutes of fight.

Stun from elite? are you serious? in group with 6-7 warriors, each of them will stun for 3sec every 7sec?
2sec stun with 120sec cooldown will be worst choice ever for team fight.