Guild Wars 2

Dan.2940:

OP let it be known that thieves with that kind of damage go down just as fast as they can take you down, if not faster. I guarantee that all it would have taken to beat that thief was a few conditions (Hint Hint, You’re an Engi, use AoEs). The build he is using is quite common, its a D/D backstab build, meaning, you should literally watch your back. It’s extremely simple to counter if you know the mechanics of a thief, i suggest playing one for a bit in sPvP if they are that much of a problem for you.

By no means are thieves “OP”, that power comes with a cost….
I love hearing that thieves are OP from a bunch of Engis…. Prob one of the most OP classes in the game, whether you believe it or not.

Oh, and i play both classes, so i believe i know what i’m talking about.

From a strictly PvP point of view, there are no OP professions in the game at the moment except marginally for Necros. It’s about as balanced as I’ve ever seen in a PvP game before, the main problem is viable build variety. But basically every profession now has a build that can counter any build of another profession, the only reason why Engies are starting to seem OP again is because of the way the meta has shifted around… and because it’s hard to know exactly what and Engie is going to do, they have some of the most unorthodox build setups of any profession, so you can’t ever be quite sure until well into the fight how they intend to damage you, unless you see them throwing grenades right from the start.

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

-Self-Regulating Defenses
-Acidic Coating
-Protective Shield
-Protection Injection
-Armor Mods
-Superior Runes of The Forge

Required Reaction Time: approx 0.0 seconds

rogerwilko.6895:

Aberrant.6749:

rogerwilko.6895:

…

If only eng had some way of mitigating the thief burst… like a block or invuln or something… then also had a truckload of cc options… nah, that’ll never happen.

Wow, yes and we all know that the thief burst can be anticipated and it has a loooong cooldown. Right?
You think all the thiefs stop when they see you, wait until you see them, then cloak when running to you so you can “mitigate” their burst?

You can anticipate a thief burst very very easily. You should know the C&D animation. The rest are very obvious. Pop your gear shield/Elixer s/etc. and watch them wiff/stun themselves etc. then hit them back.

Dan.2940:

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

You can’t AoE every area after they stealth. The only way to know for sure is if they had stealthed in a small enclosed area, at that point, it was kind of dumb to stealth anyways. I’m not calling for a nerf to thieves, I could give a crap about them, however I think the stealth mechanics could be modified. Obivously Anet is aware of this problem because they took the time to implement those lame traps in WvW.

Maybe like every other game, direct damage could remove them from stealth? Maybe if they have conditions on them, you can see where the damage numbers are coming from without actually being able to target them, and you can still AoE the area?

Zindrix.1750:

Dan.2940:

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

You can’t AoE every area after they stealth. The only way to know for sure is if they had stealthed in a small enclosed area, at that point, it was kind of dumb to stealth anyways. I’m not calling for a nerf to thieves, I could give a crap about them, however I think the stealth mechanics could be modified. Obivously Anet is aware of this problem because they took the time to implement those lame traps in WvW.

Maybe like every other game, direct damage could remove them from stealth? Maybe if they have conditions on them, you can see where the damage numbers are coming from without actually being able to target them, and you can still AoE the area?

In all seriousness it really comes down to build, experience, and knowledge of the enemy class. I was literally in your shoes banging my head against the wall over getting rolled everytime I met a Thief. What I didn’t realize is I was getting better at fighting them and beginning to predict them. A few build tweaks and a butt load of practice later and I rarely run into a thief that can down me, nor survive my hard CC SD spike, and with my shiny new rocket boots they find it hard to get away/gap close without burning down their initiative.

Long and short I turtled up my build until I got good enough to kite them, and when I got good enough to kite them I eventually got good enough to kill them. The rest is just a blur of Badges of Honor, WxP, and the occasional repair costs for run ins with players who are just plain better than me.

…now if I could only repeat that learning process on D/D Ele’s I’d be set…

This type of damage was always possible. . .except I do not see a 5k+ mug included in that picture (since mug was nerfed).

So in the end after those cheesy steal-mug-cnd-backstab builds got nerfed you can’t complain and should lrn2play. . . as others suggest. ^^

You know what’s more fun? Kiling a thief!

Obscure One.4357:

In all seriousness it really comes down to build, experience, and knowledge of the enemy class. I was literally in your shoes banging my head against the wall over getting rolled everytime I met a Thief. What I didn’t realize is I was getting better at fighting them and beginning to predict them. A few build tweaks and a butt load of practice later and I rarely run into a thief that can down me, nor survive my hard CC SD spike, and with my shiny new rocket boots they find it hard to get away/gap close without burning down their initiative.

Long and short I turtled up my build until I got good enough to kite them, and when I got good enough to kite them I eventually got good enough to kill them. The rest is just a blur of Badges of Honor, WxP, and the occasional repair costs for run ins with players who are just plain better than me.

…now if I could only repeat that learning process on D/D Ele’s I’d be set…

The only time I generally get rolled by them is when I’m in a small group and we’re capping a tower or depot and another group comes in to defend then I get FFed by the thief. Don’t usually see them beforehand, and then the backstab, etc, I’m dead. I don’t really have a problem with that, especially as I’m rolling around at lvl 79(now) in mid 60s greens and I don’t have a the fullest grasp on the class yet. My only problem is really with stealth itself and how it takes any so much vulnerability away from the class. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t play a GC build on a thief when you have stealth as a defense(and offense). On my other characters, I don’t even bother chasing thieves anymore.

Zindrix.1750:

The only time I generally get rolled by them is when I’m in a small group and we’re capping a tower or depot and another group comes in to defend then I get FFed by the thief. Don’t usually see them beforehand, and then the backstab, etc, I’m dead. I don’t really have a problem with that, especially as I’m rolling around at lvl 79(now) in mid 60s greens and I don’t have a the fullest grasp on the class yet. My only problem is really with stealth itself and how it takes any so much vulnerability away from the class. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t play a GC build on a thief when you have stealth as a defense(and offense). On my other characters, I don’t even bother chasing thieves anymore.

Don’t even bother!? Don’t you dare give up on me!

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Every time you fight a thief make adjustments to counter them, nothing major, just maybe a Master tier trait in Vitality instead of Toughness, or swapping out Elixir S for Utility Goggles. Really get into the meta of the class and play around with what you think is going to work. I would even suggest, if you have an empty character slot, roll a thief and take it into sPvP if only to look at the skills, the animations, and the general flow of the class to make yourself more familiar with it’s weakness’ and limitations.

You can only get out what you put in. The risks are worth the reward…the reward being ROFLSTOMPING a thief when he thought he had you pegged. Engineers can be uniquely unpredictable that way.

The problem with the thief is, has been, and probably always will be his ability to mulligan at any point during the fight and start again at his choosing. Because of this, thieves should be REQUIRED to get the perfect situation in order to win.

The only thief that ever loses a fight is the angry noob that doesn’t want to leave, reset, and try again until he wins. They get target fixation, forget to flee, and die.

Obscure One.4357:

Zindrix.1750:

The only time I generally get rolled by them is when I’m in a small group and we’re capping a tower or depot and another group comes in to defend then I get FFed by the thief. Don’t usually see them beforehand, and then the backstab, etc, I’m dead. I don’t really have a problem with that, especially as I’m rolling around at lvl 79(now) in mid 60s greens and I don’t have a the fullest grasp on the class yet. My only problem is really with stealth itself and how it takes any so much vulnerability away from the class. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t play a GC build on a thief when you have stealth as a defense(and offense). On my other characters, I don’t even bother chasing thieves anymore.

Don’t even bother!? Don’t you dare give up on me!

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice. Every time you fight a thief make adjustments to counter them, nothing major, just maybe a Master tier trait in Vitality instead of Toughness, or swapping out Elixir S for Utility Goggles. Really get into the meta of the class and play around with what you think is going to work. I would even suggest, if you have an empty character slot, roll a thief and take it into sPvP if only to look at the skills, the animations, and the general flow of the class to make yourself more familiar with it’s weakness’ and limitations.

You can only get out what you put in. The risks are worth the reward…the reward being ROFLSTOMPING a thief when he thought he had you pegged. Engineers can be uniquely unpredictable that way.

I mean, I don’t chase them anymore. Because if they want to, they’re going to get away rather easily with perma-stealth. I’m sure I’ll get better handling them on my engie though as my other characters don’t have too much of an issue, just sorta new with my engi yet.

I do have a lvl 15 thief but I don’t really enjoy playing it.

thieves in GW2 are like Boos from Mario.

they run at you all bad kitten with gang signs flaring while your back is turned, but as soon as you look at em they freeze like JP against the wall and pretend they cannot be seen.

but in the end, you just move on because killing one is a waste of precious time.

to that guy who said FT is a free kill …

come find me.

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

Whoever think 10k opening attack from stealth is fine need to have his head checked.
The 3 opening strikes do more than 18k and it can be done from range.

1. a good thief always runs shortbow

1. a good thief will reset a fight using teleports / stealth if a fight doesn’t go right.

1. if you have to blow elixir s, or another stun break to survive, you won’t have that it up for the next round.

1. if you try to run, they will chase, and your not gonna outrun them unless something is close.

1. you can take them, if you in a purely 1v1 built condi build, that is useless outside of 1v1, unless if you are solo roaming, or just tagging with a zerg.

Thiefs are broken, since you can’t avoid the bulk of their dps out of stealth, and they have no risk versus reward, since they can always reset the fight.

People who think otherwise either do not play thief, or play thief and ignore the issue by using other easily avoidable visible burst dps spec’s as cover.

You can’t dodge an attack you can’t see coming, and saying everyone should have to spec for 1v1 roaming to deal with troll thiefs is just thread trolling.

I can fight a thief in my guild wvw build, and I can survive the initial hit and drive them away, but unless if I am willing to completely change my utility and gear setup, after the second or third time they reingage I run out of cool downs, and die. With my only hope of killing them being that they either get kitteny or I get assitance.

Zindrix.1750:

Dan.2940:

Zindrix.1750:

Xom.9264:

dovrak.4376:

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

Didn’t you face fresh air S/D eles? or actually shatter mesmers? They’ll take you down whitout even going stealth. And necros can burst equally high these days. To say that thieves burst is op isn’t only false, it’s outdated.

Thieves burst is OP because they can do it over and over with no danger of dying due to stealth abuse. Other classes need to commit if their combo is countered they are in the fight win or lose. Stealth mesmers can get away also but their reset time to abuse stealth is much longer then thieves they also do not have the movement skills.

This is exactly the issue. Thieves don’t have the vulnerability other classes have by being seen before they launch into their combo. And(as I’ve noticed), if they feel like they aren’t going to win the fight after 5 seconds, they will just stealth and run away.

The stealth traps in WvW aren’t the answer to this problem. They’re not used at all and stealth for WvW should really be reviewed.

Uhm, ever heard of AoE’s? If not, problem solved. Thieves are still vulnerable in stealth, but you just can’t see them. Its like trying to burn an invisible piece of paper. Any AoE spam around you or whoever they are attacking will discourage them to keep doing so, or they will die. Assuming the thief is running backstab, they are glass and need to get close to you, which means standing in your AoEs will rub them the wrong way.

Thieves running away shouldn’t be a problem for you, they gave up and accepted their defeat… Sure it’s annoying, but who really won the battle? So many people seem to have a problem with thieves, but how many of you actually tried the class? You’re asking Arenanet to nerf a class that you havn’t even tried. If someone whos never tried Engineer before started saying they were OP and need a nerf, broken class, etc. How would you react?

You can’t AoE every area after they stealth. The only way to know for sure is if they had stealthed in a small enclosed area, at that point, it was kind of dumb to stealth anyways. I’m not calling for a nerf to thieves, I could give a crap about them, however I think the stealth mechanics could be modified. Obivously Anet is aware of this problem because they took the time to implement those lame traps in WvW.

Maybe like every other game, direct damage could remove them from stealth? Maybe if they have conditions on them, you can see where the damage numbers are coming from without actually being able to target them, and you can still AoE the area?

Guess you didn’t read my full response. I said to AoE the area in which you are standing, or where your ally is being attacked. That way they can’t get close to you without being hit by your AoEs, and if they do as much damage as the one that attacked OP, that one condition should be enough for them to run. ( i’ve run full glass as a thief, i know how it works) But either way, Engineers are like the pure counter to thieves… You got turrets (which completely mess them up), bombs, grenades, flamethrower…. Conditions tend to rip up thieves, especially glassy ones.

A good thief does… blabla. There are 2 big ways to beat any thief:

1) mass CC, don’t even let him do anything until he is dead.
2) mass conditions

Engineer can do both.

Kamui.5726:

So after reading all these post, this is the conclusion:
1. you have to have Elixir S
2. you have to have a stun (example: Supply Crate)
3. you have to react quick enough to hit the thief within the 3 second window while they have reveal debuff
4. you have to trait defensively (example: protection injection)
5. must have toolkit for gear shield to negate initial burst
6. there was more but point made….

Yep lot’s of versatility here to the build you want to play….. -_-

I hate fighting thieves myself and it’s hard to avoid/get away from them due their high mobility. I think stealth needs something else to it, maybe an increase to the debuff time or they get the debuff even if they don’t attack, but then thieves would just complain and ask for something else to be buffed.

No no, please, continue down the list, because there were a ton more suggestions, and if you aren’t already implementing at least of of those suggestions in your build, what are you even running? Full gadgets? There are TONS of ways to counter a thief, especially as an engineer…. You don’t have to make your build revolve around killing just thieves, there are so many options to counter them that you are probably literally running a utility right now that can do it….

Do you play a thief to suggest that the stealth debuff should be increased? They did that once, and guess what? They changed it back! Wanna know why? It made the thief class clunky and ruined the classes flow of attacks. So please don’t suggest that they nerf a classes mechanics so that it’s easier for you to kill them. You are an engineer, do i have to literally list more things you could do to counter them? Yes?

1. Static Shield
2. Magnetic Inversion
3. Rocket Boots
4. Slick Shoes
5. Flamethrower
6. Bomb kit
7. Grenade Kit
8. Elixir S
9. ALL turrets
10. Supply crate (Worst case)
11. Elixir X (Worst Case)
12. Traiting for it (Worst Case)
13. Net Shot
14. Tool Kit

If you’re an engi, and you aren’t using ANY of these things, i’m a little scared for your build.

rogerwilko.6895:

- engie got me low! I will die!? -> steath if I can, then the rest is easy.

You just defined the whole reason why thieves are annoying

Kamui.5726:

So after reading all these post, this is the conclusion:
1. you have to have Elixir S
2. you have to have a stun (example: Supply Crate)
3. you have to react quick enough to hit the thief within the 3 second window while they have reveal debuff
4. you have to trait defensively (example: protection injection)
5. must have toolkit for gear shield to negate initial burst
6. there was more but point made….

Yep lot’s of versatility here to the build you want to play….. -_-

I hate fighting thieves myself and it’s hard to avoid/get away from them due their high mobility. I think stealth needs something else to it, maybe an increase to the debuff time or they get the debuff even if they don’t attack, but then thieves would just complain and ask for something else to be buffed.

I like how you took several possible ways of defeating thieves, and made it sound as if they were required to be able to defeat thieves.

How to kill a thief:

a) Prybar in his face and go afk desktop.
b) if he seems to be a good thief: prybar in his face plus random skill spamming.

Dan.2940:

Guess you didn’t read my full response. I said to AoE the area in which you are standing, or where your ally is being attacked. That way they can’t get close to you without being hit by your AoEs, and if they do as much damage as the one that attacked OP, that one condition should be enough for them to run. ( i’ve run full glass as a thief, i know how it works) But either way, Engineers are like the pure counter to thieves… You got turrets (which completely mess them up), bombs, grenades, flamethrower…. Conditions tend to rip up thieves, especially glassy ones.

I did, and it does make sense as that’s what I do when I know there’s a thief around. I was talking about them running away because I will never be able to kill a thief who has decided to bail.

also rebind those keys, mein gott.

your stun break is halfway across the planet.

p/p and all elixirs, there’s your problem

sorrychief.2563:

This type of damage was always possible. . .except I do not see a 5k+ mug included in that picture (since mug was nerfed).

So in the end after those cheesy steal-mug-cnd-backstab builds got nerfed you can’t complain and should lrn2play. . . as others suggest. ^^

You know what’s more fun? Kiling a thief!

That “nerfed” steal-mug-cnd-backstab build do 19k dmg in the picture, 21k if you add the lightning strike. I played a thief as well. I know how it feel to wait more than 3min for one solo “free” kill to appear and watch him got away.
(that is the same reason why some thief prefer dying than letting target run off)
Let face it, Thief is not useful in zerg fight(where the real reward is). Whern AOE appear all over the place, stealth isn’t that useful, so I understand why some thief want to defend their I win button.

I like how you’re ignoring the fact that this guy has 0 utilities, he’s full elixirs and isn’t even using shield to daze/knockback. After a 10k backstab he should insta elixir S, cc, heal, and kill him.

Read the log and you know that He DID use elixirs(notice the space between the lightning strike and the next attack), I bet he use heal as well (notice that the thief do more than 31k dmg to a 22k hp target, I bet he use CC, when the thief breaks it and HS him to death. (not showed in log)
Fact: If you are fighting a glass thief with ascended gear and food buff, unless you have help, you die …. fast.

kill him.

lol, easy to say than done ,especially when you have 10% hp left, used up you heal and he is 100% .

tl;dr

imo it’s the initiative system that is op. allowing one class only to spam their most powerful skills (heart seeker hero? I know you’re still around, i saw you in that zerg)

I play thief and am currently leveling my engi. If I decide to go glass cannon on my thief the only way i’m going to be able to get the kill is if I either 2 hit you or you have no escape mechanisms. Sorry but that’s really the problem here. You should put on rocket boots or tool kit idk just something. This doesn’t really apply to thieves specifically though. As seen in your picture you have elixir S as really your only escape. That’s a problem on your side

Obscure One.4357:

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

-Self-Regulating Defenses
-Acidic Coating
-Protective Shield
-Protection Injection
-Armor Mods
-Superior Runes of The Forge

Required Reaction Time: approx 0.0 seconds

Lolll, well played!

Nothing new with thieves, op burst damage which will never be addressed, but make sure to nerf grenades again ANet.

WIGZ.8245:

Nothing new with thieves, op burst damage which will never be addressed, but make sure to nerf grenades again ANet.

With respect to thieves I feel as though they’re mostly just newbie screeners. They show up after some kid and his terrible build has PvE’d his way to 80 thinking he’s Captain Awesome and straight rip him apart like a Twinkie tossed into a fat camp. Then he comes here to get called a newb, told to learn to play, and is faced with a choice: go back to PvE where he can live out his fantasy of being Captain Awesome, or dedicate himself to actually becoming an amazing player and respected among his peers.

You could also waste supply and money to drop anti-stealth traps every 2000 range unit or so. That kind of thief would die so fast in that sort of scenario that the only option would be to run away.

That thief is also a noob, he can’t CnD properly according to the combat log. Unfortunately, their profession abilities enable them to do such things. Mug used to hit for 8k as well.

someone mentioned acidic coating, but it wouldn’t help that much here. If the backstab misses in such a scenario, the thief can just attempt it again since misses don’t drop stealth, so as long as he is spamming buttons he will hit the backstab. The best it would get you is a moment of time to use a stunbreaker.

Obscure One.4357:

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

-Self-Regulating Defenses
-Acidic Coating
-Protective Shield
-Protection Injection
-Armor Mods
-Superior Runes of The Forge

Required Reaction Time: approx 0.0 seconds

-Armor Mods
(My encounter with a warrior using 3sec block) Backstab —-block, Backstab-—-block again, Backstab ,blackstab,blackstab,blackstab crt 8k .
Oh yes, I was spamming that in stealth. BLOCK IS USELESS.

-Acidic Coating
Backstab- miss, Backstab again…. PS: No idea if it fix or not.

Self-Regulating Defenses
It won’t proc AT ALL if Backstab kill u (Hint Backsab crt can hit like 12k on armor 3k target, no idea what buff or hack he use …lol)
It is noted that OP use Exile S and still loses shortly after it gone

Protective_Shield
Only proc after crt, If you are unlucky, proc after the 10k backstab (I have seen higher hit on my 3.1k armor ranger)

Protection Injection
Most D/D thief only disable u if u survive .Even then you have 2k hp after and protection. Good luck.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Forge
It won’t matter if it proc or not cause BS still land(14k/22k health after C&D). and u left with 2k hp with protection (not immunity) .

PS: Giving a class Overpwd initial burst that can come out of nowhere is stupid game design. Period.

Xae.7204:

Thieves are broken and overpowered. This is known.

It is known. (GoT reference )

KOK.2650:

Protective_Shield
Only proc after crt, If you are unlucky, proc after the 10k backstab (I have seen higher hit on my 3.1k armor ranger)

Protection Injection
Most D/D thief only disable u if u survive .Even then you have 2k hp after and protection. Good luck.

Oddly enough, the change to mug to make it not critical hit anymore actually makes protective shield less effective against backstab… in fact it might actually work out to be approximately the same damage.

As for protection injection, it should proc on the basilisk venom that gets triggered by the hit from mug, so that will protect against the backstab. But you’re right in that there generally aren’t too many other disables, unless maybe he’s running a sword or using off-hand pistol.

KOK.2650:

Obscure One.4357:

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

-Self-Regulating Defenses
-Acidic Coating
-Protective Shield
-Protection Injection
-Armor Mods
-Superior Runes of The Forge

Required Reaction Time: approx 0.0 seconds

-Armor Mods
(My encounter with a warrior using 3sec block) Backstab —-block, Backstab-—-block again, Backstab ,blackstab,blackstab,blackstab crt 8k .
Oh yes, I was spamming that in stealth. BLOCK IS USELESS.

-Acidic Coating
Backstab- miss, Backstab again…. PS: No idea if it fix or not.

Self-Regulating Defenses
It won’t proc AT ALL if Backstab kill u (Hint Backsab crt can hit like 12k on armor 3k target, no idea what buff or hack he use …lol)
It is noted that OP use Exile S and still loses shortly after it gone

Protective_Shield
Only proc after crt, If you are unlucky, proc after the 10k backstab (I have seen higher hit on my 3.1k armor ranger)

Protection Injection
Most D/D thief only disable u if u survive .Even then you have 2k hp after and protection. Good luck.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Forge
It won’t matter if it proc or not cause BS still land(14k/22k health after C&D). and u left with 2k hp with protection (not immunity) .

PS: Giving a class Overpwd initial burst that can come out of nowhere is stupid game design. Period.

It may help if, on occasion, you choose to dodge. If that defensive array of options doesn’t help you, you just need to get a whole lot more practice.

Have you tried damage? It’s pretty good.

Lol hoe thiefs defend their class here and talk about how op thief is … blabla bla bla. Every class has his easy opponents – engineers breakfirst is definitly thief. MMMH njam njam.

OP,

Congrats on your PvE HGH burst build, it probably melts face in dungeons. For PvP success however, try:

• Toughness

• Protection (protection injection and/or protective shield traits)

For future reference:

• This wasn’t done in 1 second, it’s simply too many moves.

• Vitality is a trash stat. Ignore it unless you are going for a very heavy bunker build, as it devalues your healing and takes points away from other stats, which are all much better value. Toughness or healing power are how you build survivability.

Try sPvP as a way to optimize your build and improve your skills. Good luck!

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

If you’re honestly wondering how to counter it, you should start with being honest in your post.

The damage you summed up just now took place over 5 seconds minimum from start to finish. “a second, maybe less” ? No. That’s an outright lie which can be confirmed by anyone with a low level thief. Go ahead make one. C&D something, move behind it, backstab it, then run through an entire dagger 1 attack chain. How long did it take you? I guarantee the answer is > 1 second.

Chances are you are just trolling though and I’ve just wasted my time typing up this response. Sigh.

nakoda.4213:

thieves in GW2 are like Boos from Mario.

they run at you all bad kitten with gang signs flaring while your back is turned, but as soon as you look at em they freeze like JP against the wall and pretend they cannot be seen.

but in the end, you just move on because killing one is a waste of precious time.

to that guy who said FT is a free kill …

come find me.

Amen! The one person in this thread who gets the issue. There is no balance issue, only the annoyance issue.

We are not talking sPvP. In there bad thieves are rubbish while good thieves are on a slight disadvantage if they are playing burst builds. You see them, you counter them you kill them. For the record, I have been using a funky FT-rocket boots-elixir C build, with p/s, that simply cannot die to a d/d thief. In FT we trust (vs someone who has no retaliation anyway).

And yesterday I logged in WvW, using the same build. Acidic coating, protection injection, FT, rocket boots. Zerker’s gear, 19k hp, 1300 toughness. I thought (foolishly) the traits and 200 FT extra toughness would allow me to survive the instagib if i got stunned or rocket booted/smoke vent if i did not get stunned, then easily turn the fight around. Poor poor me…

See Attachment: He did not stun me so protection injection was not triggered. He did not miss through acidic coating. I had NO time to react, because he started from stealth while I had just finished another player off (I had almost full hp and no cooldowns wasted). Every single player in my position would have died. No matter how gosu, skilled, aware. It was an instagib. Instant and unavoidable kills are not right.

But let’s say he sacrifices everything for that one attempt. It’s either him or you and I would be fine with that (see rifle zerker’s warriors killshotting). Thieves in WvW can restealth, stay in stealth PERMANENTLY (that’s the issue) and stalk you waiting for the next opportunity to instantly kill you. Something must be done about the perma stealth in WvW (critters not giving stealth through c&d in WvW perhaps?).

TL;DR: sPvP —> thief balanced, or even slightly underpowered
WvW --> must have defensive traits and armor or you get instakilled by someone pressing 3 buttons. If you survive he resets the fight and waits in stealth until you turn your back again. Not cool.

I love the people that said “when you see them go stealth”

A good C n’ D thief in WvW NEVER leaves stealth, and can run around in a keep for hours while 20-30 people run in circles trying to find him.

Notfragile.2349:

nakoda.4213:

thieves in GW2 are like Boos from Mario.

they run at you all bad kitten with gang signs flaring while your back is turned, but as soon as you look at em they freeze like JP against the wall and pretend they cannot be seen.

but in the end, you just move on because killing one is a waste of precious time.

to that guy who said FT is a free kill …

come find me.

Amen! The one person in this thread who gets the issue. There is no balance issue, only the annoyance issue.

We are not talking sPvP. In there bad thieves are rubbish while good thieves are on a slight disadvantage if they are playing burst builds. You see them, you counter them you kill them. For the record, I have been using a funky FT-rocket boots-elixir C build, with p/s, that simply cannot die to a d/d thief. In FT we trust (vs someone who has no retaliation anyway).

And yesterday I logged in WvW, using the same build. Acidic coating, protection injection, FT, rocket boots. Zerker’s gear, 19k hp, 1300 toughness. I thought (foolishly) the traits and 200 FT extra toughness would allow me to survive the instagib if i got stunned or rocket booted/smoke vent if i did not get stunned, then easily turn the fight around. Poor poor me…

See Attachment: He did not stun me so protection injection was not triggered. He did not miss through acidic coating. I had NO time to react, because he started from stealth while I had just finished another player off (I had almost full hp and no cooldowns wasted). Every single player in my position would have died. No matter how gosu, skilled, aware. It was an instagib. Instant and unavoidable kills are not right.

But let’s say he sacrifices everything for that one attempt. It’s either him or you and I would be fine with that (see rifle zerker’s warriors killshotting). Thieves in WvW can restealth, stay in stealth PERMANENTLY (that’s the issue) and stalk you waiting for the next opportunity to instantly kill you. Something must be done about the perma stealth in WvW (critters not giving stealth through c&d in WvW perhaps?).

TL;DR: sPvP —> thief balanced, or even slightly underpowered
WvW --> must have defensive traits and armor or you get instakilled by someone pressing 3 buttons. If you survive he resets the fight and waits in stealth until you turn your back again. Not cool.

Self-Regulating Defenses = survive the spike
Healing Turret + Rocket Boots = you get away from the spiker and heal…alot.

Now, fight back. If he hits that hard there’s good odds he’s squishier than a day old soggy bowl of captain crunch. If he beats you now, he’s better than you and you should give credit where credit is due.

I run with only about 19k hp and 2.1k toughness in WvW and have no problem with 95% of thieves…that remaining 5% are amazing and always give me a good fight. Of that 5% about 50% of the time I’ll win, and it’s by a matter of 1 or 2k hp and everything I have is on cool down. Good ol’ Fashioned good time.

As far as I’m concerned if a thief can insta-kill someone, it’s not the thief being OP but rather someone choosing their WvW build poorly.

Helcor.9527:

22,215 in a second. Maybe less. Please explain how to counter this with no reaction time allowed?
Let me guess I didnt bring my anti thief build/traits/armor/skillzzz or I need to L2P ha

3k dagger auto hit… there’s yer problem; sucky gear.
Post the screeny now of a Berserker Mesmer killing you with wand autos and beg to get that nerfed XD
’Cause the damage was just SO OP!

wolfpaq.7354:

If you’re honestly wondering how to counter it, you should start with being honest in your post.

The damage you summed up just now took place over 5 seconds minimum from start to finish. “a second, maybe less” ? No. That’s an outright lie which can be confirmed by anyone with a low level thief. Go ahead make one. C&D something, move behind it, backstab it, then run through an entire dagger 1 attack chain. How long did it take you? I guarantee the answer is > 1 second.

Chances are you are just trolling though and I’ve just wasted my time typing up this response. Sigh.

Mug, C&D , blackstab, lightning strike takes slightly more than 1sec . You can mug , C&D , backstab from behind or from the side.
Did you try this build ever? seriously…..

TL;DR: sPvP —> thief balanced, or even slightly underpowered

Reason
1)C&D, backstab dmg in spvp is lower than wvw.
2)Lack of gear selection +no food buff etc limited their brust
3)Everyone in spvp know exactly how many thieves they face and for some reason, they are always found in checkpt.
4)Fighting using stealth in checkpt will allow the opponent to cap the point.

KOK.2650:

Mug, C&D , blackstab, lightning strike takes slightly more than 1sec .

“more than 1sec”

From the OP

“less than 1sec”.

Thanks for proving my point.

2012,2013 time of the thief.

The forums are full of complaints and they are updated weekly with new ones. Anet thinks it’s fine and basically comes down to a L2P issue… supposedly.

Its the fact that they get the jump on you (which you have no counter for) and hit for insane amounts of damage. If that doesn’t work they stealth and run away, then stalk you again for another attempt. The designers have failed to understand balance in its simplest form. countering. If there is NO counter to stealth which there isn’t currently then the fun is taken out of the game (unless your talking about paying for a stealth trap from a vendor – hardly a counter when you see how small the trap area is, and the fact you have to pay for it.)

No, Thieves are not balanced not by a longshot.

And the advice that you should build in a very specific way just because of Thieves, and learn to play, master your profession aswell as read all the signs of a Thief. And have such a level of experience you can inticipate what he is going to do.

Just so you can beat a Thief just just LOLPRESS2BUTTONS is entirely unreasonable. We get it, Thieves can die. Thats not the issue.

The issue is that for a Thief, to dominate another player, it takes very little skill at all. Its incredibly easy, which is why most Thieves are really bad aswell since they never had to l2p.
But in order to deal with this crap you need a great deal more skill and experience.

When the advice to beat a profession is “learn to outplay them” that is a clear sign that profession isnt balanced. Or else you wouldnt need to be a much better player to have a fair shot at beating them.

at this point in the game, complaining about thieves makes little sense to me. heartseaker was nerfed. mug was nerfed. quickness was nerfed. larcenous strike was nerfed, infiltrators strike was nerfed. I remember how it worked before, and thieves were still easy to beat.

contrary to what is said around the forums, you will see most of the thieves comming at you, just like any other class, if you pay any attention to whats going on. you can very easily avoid their opener. you can very easily kite them or make them waste their initiative chasing you. you can dodge cloak and dagger. you can stop their heartseaker into black powder. shadow refuge = free revealed debuff for alot of classes and specs. if you can’t punt them out of refuge, run the other way. you can reset the fight just as a thief can.

it’s true, thieves don’t have a high skill ceiling, but that also means that they are very easy to counter, as are most classes once you figure them out. and thief is probably the easiest one to figure out how to counter.

I dislike how so many decisions regarding balance in this game are made for skill clicking slow to react casuals, such as confusion, retaliation and quickness nerf and an overall reduction on burst damage. I understand why they make such decisions, but I dislike it. The last thing this game needs is more dumbing down.

thieves are fine at this point. any thief that can kill you in 3 seconds, dies in 3 seconds.
sword needed some toning down, which it got. black powder + heartseaker is a cheesy no risk stealth move, but it burns so much initiative you shouldn’t be worried about getting killed afterwards. just run the other way while counting to 4.

but in the end, devs will probably give in to the constant whining again and nerf something that was not really an issue any more, while stupidly op stuff goes unchecked.

Engineer has so many great tools to deal with Thieves. For example – blocking/defensive abilities to stop their opening burst, especially Static Shield which flips the momentum of the fight instantly in a 1v1.

In the fight below I had to fight 3 thieves at the same time, which meant I had to abandon the normal tactics of timing cloak and dagger dodges etc for a far more pressured/frantic playstyle. I know two of the thieves are uplevelled, however they still apply a huge amount of pressure. Plus, I didn’t have my Elite available.

Yes I know, these weren’t great players. But, as many others have pointed out in this thread, Engineers are more than capable of dealing with the vast majority of Thieves and shouldn’t need to complain about them being OP.

-Prozap [CHvc]

Thieves are balanced for the most part.

The only problem with the class has nothing to do with glass cannon ROFLSTOMP damage, and only a slight bit to do with stealth.

Even a seasoned thief player will agree something needs to be done about these no-talent-!@#holes who press 2 and claim they’re the best thief ever to walk their server. Truth be told, this is a viable means of playing the class as the mechanics actually encourage using your best skill over and over and over and over then stealth, recover, repeat. This is the problem: a viable play style that literally takes no talent, skill, or complex understanding of the game to be effective.

Granted, I personally have learned how to beat the tactic, but that is a problem in and of it self. I actually had to learn to beat these !#%ing jack!#es who only had to learn to press one key over and over. Then there’s the fact it’s a leap finisher…a spammable leap finisher…

This is the minor problem with thief/smoke field stealth, it stacks in duration. This should not be the case. New applications of stealth should overwrite previous stealth, not stack with it. This only enables those same no-talent-!@#holes to now press that 2 button over and over and over to a point that borders on exploitation of the games mechanics. Notably, I have also learned how to combat this tactic: leave. They’re in a long duration stealth and have burnt out their initiative to obtain it likely to get in good position for a backstab but now they have a difficult job of gap closing without initiative. You might not be able to see, but you’re an Engineer and they have no gap closer, so you can just briskly jog away.

There in lies the next problem, they can control engagement and disengagement also with one !@#%ing skill just by adding a smoke field. 2 skills, no talent whatsoever, and everyone needs to learn to fight this loser.

The problem is not the Thief being OP, but rather the insanely low skill floor required for it to be effective. That’s not at all to say there’s not incredible and skilled players who run thieves, not at all. They’re just surrounded by these no-talent-!@#holes who have viable play styles with one repetitive key stroke.

13k damage in one shot out of stealth? Sure! I like the option of being able to be purely offensive in my games. Learning to defend against that is a worthwhile experience, and makes me better at the game.

4k damage on a gap closer that’s a leap finisher that can be performed by pressing one key over and over and over? No…that’s just !@#$ing stupid. Being forced to learn to beat that is as unrewarding of an experience as it is an insult to skilled players across all professions.

Helcor.9527:

Pavel.8531:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Fighting-thieves-in-WvW

Helping you out. Btw I am a thief and engis(good ones) are even worse than guards to 1v1.

This is interesting could you give me the build that burst me down that quick in a second? Id just like to see what im up against.

Also Ive seen the video on there. For spvp running things like net turret are fine but in wvw you can easily find yourself outnumbered(sometimes by a lot). Just an example.

Thief damage is high. Too high.

engineer can build to kill in same amount of time as a theif with static discharge 3-4k toolbelt skillx3 then jump shot blunderbuss target dead i have hit 7k+ on both blunderbuss and jump shot and thats in spvp if were talking about wvwvw damage will be higher not to mention u can drop ppl to about 25% health from 1000 range